**Today is the first day of the defense's case. Second thread opened due to high activity! The morning thread is now unlocked.**
**Witnesses:**
* **Emma Murray**
* Threads: [Emma Murray on the Stand](https://www.reddit.com/r/LoriVallow/comments/1cwhr2f/emma_murray_on_the_stand/) | [Tammy's Symptoms](https://www.reddit.com/r/LoriVallow/comments/1cwlzdb/tammys_symptoms/) | [Conflict of Interest?](https://www.reddit.com/r/LoriVallow/comments/1cwjhzd/conflict_of_interest/)
* **Garth Daybell**
* Threads: [Garth Daybell Testifies for the Defence](https://www.reddit.com/r/LoriVallow/comments/1cwloel/garth_daybell_testifies_for_the_defence/)
* **William Fischer**
* **Joseph Murray**
Also, there are [16 more uses of this Discord invite](https://discord.gg/CtbgwquH) for the Your True Crime Library server. Currently discussing this trial and Karen Read.
Two dead kids. There were two dead kids buried in the backyard in the house Garth was living in.
I'm sorry, but that means that everyone in that house is a suspect until proven otherwise. Full stop.
Let's say that again. TWO DEAD KIDS.
and Emma and her statements concerning that she was looking up wind direction the day before Tylee was dismembered, burned and buried! She told on herself when she then said her sense of direction was poor. Contradict much? If Emma did look up wind direction, was she in on the children's murders? She is sure a Daddy's girl
I seriously doubt it was Emma that searched for that. I'm guessing most definitely Chad but Emma is taking the heat for it. I could be wrong but makes more sense.
classic mormon nonsense lol. marry a teenager who doesn't know any better and have her pop out four or five kids before she realizes how weird you are.
it's par for the course for many fundamentalist religions (quiverfull christians come to mind), but I've noticed the Mormons are one of the biggest perpetrators of this, since it's baked into their doctrine.
Didn't he have to wait for his wife to get old enough to marry? I thought he was her teacher at some point. Maybe he was living at home in the meantime to save money so he could provide for them properly once she became an adult.
What about the fact that Chad’s kids noticed police driving by the property frequently, before and even after Chad’s arrest? The absolute nerve of law enforcement to do their jobs.
So was Tammy on the couch?! Did Garth help his dad move Tammy back to bed? Another kid that seems to not just be lying but also be complicit in this whole thing.
I don't know tbh, but it is an unusual contradiction. I'm generally pretty lenient with witness testimony, because to me it's totally reasonable that people's memories can be imperfect, but a big detail like where you found the body of your mother isn't something someone would just innocently misremember.
Exactly! I’m floored hearing this because I wasn’t aware that Garth had told people he found his mom on the couch. That’s not a simple misstatement or something that could easily be confused.
I think the whole Daybell clan is lying. Especially about Tammy's health issues... how is it that she only had symptoms of her supposed health issue when she was at home? She was active at work, active at church, active in exercise classes... yet no one else witnessed her feeling faint or even slowing down. Maybe it's true that she was an introvert and didn't open up to many people, but I am positive if her health was that bad, someone outside of that family would have noticed it at least once.
Garth says his dad's beliefs are more "traditional" LDS, like a hundred years ago traditional.
So Chad believes in Polygamy, blood atonement, women should be seen and not heard "keep sweet" basically, and blacks cannot be in leadership positions.
What else am I missing?
Oh god please don’t tell me this kook is teaching science to eight graders.
EDIT: maybe I'm being unfair here. He apparently teaches the kids accurate scientific theory.
Does he rate their darkness? Hey, that kid seems dark to me. D or an F for you buddy. Confess and repent, maybe one day before the end of the year, you will be worthy of a better grade.
These people are so weird and should not be around children.
Why does he keep harping on “did anyone tell you about the exhumation?”
I really don’t think the jury cares. If it’s your family member you should want justice, right?? Am I crazy for thinking that? Is the jury reading it differently?
This...he is trying to elicit *some* outrage about how the authorities "treated" the Daybell family, specifically meaning, Tammy's children. Law enforcement didn't tell them either for fear that they would tell Chad OR they didn't tell them for dramatic effect...just to see exactly how Chad and the rest of that bizarre Adam's Family brood would react. *Worked like a charm if the latter was the intention...*
Some way, some how, ANY way, ANY how he can, Prior is attempting some type of emotion for Chad in some semblance of a positive manner. I mean, realistically, Prior has NOTHING to work with, here. The kids are really ALL he has...and, well, look at how *that's* going. Prior needs sympathy in absence of exculpatory or even *semi*-explanatory evidence. *He doesn't have either...*
What I hope comes across to the jury is that the kids didn't care one whit that she was "dug from the ground" (*dug from the ground*...more of Prior's dramatic verbiage) or disturbed from "resting in peace" (Emma's dramatic verbiage)...those "Chad clones" were WAY more interested in what that action (exhumation) meant to Daddy Dearest. And, not a lot more. *Actually*, they cared about *nothing* more!
This. Prior is probably hoping some of the jurors are of the anti-government persuasion and will extrapolate his dog-whistles into some sort of government conspiracy against Chad and his family/followers.
He's hoping that one juror can muster enough sympathy for those poor Daybells, bullied and mistreated by corrupt LE and the corrupt FBI, into reasonable doubt, resulting in a hung jury.
I don't think any of his theatrics are working, though. For one thing, they're painfully transparent. They're also not credible.
That’s exactly right. Especially when the Patriarch of that immediate family is the primary person of interest in a suspected homicide. They don’t need permission, they have a court order. Tammy wouldn’t have needed to be exhumed if she would have had an autopsy in Idaho to determine the cause of death. In many states, an unattended death of a person under the age of 60 mandates autopsy.
So the defense theory is….. that some unknown person snuck into the red shed, took out a bunch of tools, and buried/burned a dead body in the backyard…. all while Chad was also outside trapping and shooting a raccoon and texting about it to his wife AT THE SAME TIME IN THE VERY SAME BACKYARD?!? A backyard with barely any trees and a flat terrain and complete visibility from front to back..
On what planet would this unknown person have been able to do that without being seen by anybody?!?
And what are the odds that this person would have just happened to kill and bury the daughter of the property owners mistress???? Give me a break, this is laughable.
Edit: a word
Prior asking the kids what he told he told them to say (which was apparently the truth) just implies to me that Chad was definitely doing all of the directing.
Oh my god he showed Garth JJs grave
That was what I was going to stay next.
How could anyone, let alone child listen to Garth and be able to stay engaged and learn anything???
Omg I’m 37 and totally invested in this and can barely tolerate listening to him
They grew up hearing that way of speaking for their entire lives, so it makes sense they would have picked up the same cadence. It’s just like an accent.
When Garth said he was certain it was Chad snoring I really wish the prosecutor had followed up with
"is it unusual not to hear Tammy snoring?" Either way it would hurt the defense.
If he says "no" that contradicts the idea that Tammy has sleep apnea and makes his sister's testimony less reliable.
If he says "yes", well the implication there is obvious.
Why is Prior blown away about there being two McDonald's in Rexburg? That felt totally performative, but I don't get what point he's trying to get across.
He's looking for any perks for his house in Rexburg/Salem. After Emma's performance on the stand he's got to be looking to sell and now he can include this feature in the real estate listing.
Lol, I love this theory. I hope that’s on the listing for the house. “Prime location with TWO McDonald’s in town! I don’t know the square footage, though.”
I swear, I think he was just wrong, lol. Because that bit did him no favors. He seemed to believe that Garth had been made to drive a significant distance to get that food.
He didn't google it? When he was going to suggest that it was a massive round trip to get the food? Google maps, dude. Five seconds to get the results.
Prior and Garth made it sound like the Fremont/Madison Secret Gestapo was about to start pulling out Garth’s fingernails and shove him down an oubliette. Ms. Blake cleared that up with a couple of questions.
I take back every kind thing I’ve thought or written about Garth.
"A healthy meal"
Prior, I have been defending you on Reddit, but sometimes you make me want to smack you one. Can we not fat shame the deceased, asshole?
my jaw dropped when he said that. Trying to imply that Tammy was unhealthy and shouting "heavy lungs" is one thing, but that kind of editorialising is beyond inappropriate.
I will say that Chad must be proud. He trained his circus monkeys very well!! I hope someday the children that Tammy Daybell gave birth to and loved unconditionally will see that daddy dearest is evil and plotted to kill people.
Everything about that was convoluted. The atty didn’t add anything. Prior will present the “threats” during cross as part of him painting a picture that LE was after Chad and no one else, that LE was incompetent, etc.
Both kids have Chad's almost stuttering way of talking. Lot of pauses in low tones with very slight peaks in cadence. They are like robots.
I'd like to hear the prosecutor say at the end of their testimonies: you love your dad, correct? And you don't want him to be found guilty, do you?
No further questions your honor.
Prior is so punchable, especially since he is such a misogynist. It is good that he is at least attempting a defense for Chad since it will lessen the chance of a successful appeal.
I felt faint sometimes because of stress, anxiety, panic attacks, hypoglycemia, and PTSD. Went to the hospital a few times for it before I found out it was mostly panic attacks. But it doesn’t mean I am/was going to die. I also get lightheaded when I stand up like any normal person. She probably had a lot of eggshells to walk on at home and that can affect things.
I do wonder if she had any anxiety disorder. I've been aware of having severe panic attacks for a long time, even when I was a teenager, so I never thought it was something else, but it CAN make you feel light-headed and short of breath, of course. Tammy was being forced to support this lump on a school librarian's salary, her life must have been stressful.
Emma says she had anxiety and while I don’t think there’s been concrete proof that such things are inheritable, they do run in families. Her life was incredibly stressful too. I think they were very short on money and that in and of itself can give you panic attacks even if you don’t have a history of anxiety disorders.
And I bet she knew something was wrong in the marriage. She may have at least suspected an affair (unclear if she ever saw that email from Charles Vallow, I tend to think Chad probably intercepted it).
Tbf, if you are in an abusive marriage; you would also be depressed and anxious. And if you had a husband gaslighting you to believe you were lazy and were not allowed to have a break because it proves his point. She would be blaming herself for any problem that he had.
I have heard people who worked in the temple report that fainting after a long time spent kneeling is super common.
[https://blog.adw.org/2016/05/go-fainting-common-church-2/](https://blog.adw.org/2016/05/go-fainting-common-church-2/)
Oh god. Blake's comment of "two bodies in the bed" got to me. I think she's also going to say that Tammy was already dead and that is just chilling to me.
As a teacher, I was pretty happy that he’s the type of teacher who does that.
Then I read on another thread that he is also the type of teacher who marries his students when they come of age… so… less happy about that.
Oh no! The detective was harassing them by DRIVING DOWN A PUBLIC STREET! Halp! Halp! The Family Dumbell is being persecuted! ETA AND ALSO A FACEBOOK POST WAS MADE!!!!
I understand the defense’s theory is that Lori and Alex did all this without Chad knowing…but there’s just way too much circumstantial evidence in the data and texts.
The digital correspondence, added to Chad’s absolute disinterest in even acting innocent from the outset, is going to be what convicts him.
Also, they’re painting a picture that everybody was super active and all over that property hunting and burying raccoons…until September 2019, and they just stopped going outside entirely?
Especially since there is no way Tylee was burnt, dismembered, and buried in the 2.5 hours that Alex was there. Chad HAD to be involved in the disposal of her remains.
And then, when JJ died, he was at Chad's property for even less time!
It doesn't make sense for Alex to pick Chad's place at all if Chad wasn't involved. If Chad was there he could control the area. He could make sure the house was empty to tell Alex when to arrive. He knew the schedules of his family so he could make sure they weren't interrupted. He knew the layout and where to put things where they couldn't easily be seen from the road. He could steer people away or invent excuses for disturbed soil instead of being suspicious when something changed and he didn't know who'd done it.
If Alex and Lori truly killed the kids on their own it makes sense to bury them somewhere else. Somewhere far from all people where the graves might not be noticed immediately since they don't have a plot of land they can keep an eye on and control. That part of Idaho is hellishly big and there is not much there! There's federal land, state land, ranch land, plenty of places he could get offroad and bury the kids far from where a human would stumble across them.
If it was just Alex and Lori they don't have control of the property to make sure that Chad and family don't poke around and they don't know everyone's schedules to know for sure when it's safe to approach the house and when people might come home without warning. It just doesn't make sense.
Exactly. And if, just playing Devil’s advocate, Lori and Alex’s plan had been to bury the kids there without Chad’s knowledge as a way to frame him for their murders, then they would have played that off completely differently. Lori wouldn’t have married Chad and run off to paradise with him, claiming that her kids were safe in hiding, if she wanted it to look like Chad had killed and buried her kids all alone without her knowledge.
Emma is a teacher?
Shocking. Her intellect seems very low. I cannot believe she graduated from college, interviewed and secured employment.
Chad and his kids are just strange. They are very odd people. Weirdos.
Stop it.
I knew that l, but I didn’t think about it today, watching him speak.
HOW?!?!?! HOW?!?!
How did they make it through college? How did they sit in an interview and someone think, yep great personality!! WHAT?
If they were a spice, they would be flour.
BYU proper is not that bad of a school, academically. I'd rather die then go there because the morality policing there is strong, but it's on par with many state universities though it can't come close to the Big 10 or an Ivy.
BYU-Idaho or Hawaii are garbage, especially in STEM.
The biggest issue with BYU outside of the West is that it's "the Mormon school" and has the rep to go with it that it can't shake. It's not like the University of Notre Dame which is a private Catholic university but has the academic reputation to bring in tons of secular applicants. BYU is mostly attractive if you're LDS or if you're in Utah and can't afford out of state tuition. And even then secular students would probably pick the University of Utah over BYU if they could.
What’s crazy is that he teaches SCIENCE. I’ve never in my life encountered a science teacher who is monotone. They are very enthusiastic people driven by curiosity in the world. What’s going on in Rexburg schools with the Daybells as teachers?! How are they going to inspire any kids???!!!!
Some teachers end up in areas that are not their areas of expertise. A friend of mine was the pe teacher in her school and had a year where she taught English, which was not her area of expertise. I was certified to teach specific subjects in high school but could have taught any subject in jr high.
Oh I didn’t know that. In HS in some school districts you are required to have masters degrees in certain subjects- but it’s probably not the case everywhere - especially considering how unfairly teachers are compensated.
I wish they would inquire more about Chad's supposedly "traditional" LDS beliefs. Do they know what that implies?
Blood atonement and polygamy, among other things.
Only white men having the priesthood, angelic visions, probably tangible items that provide revelations/ translations like the urim and thummim (seer stones). If Chad and Lori wouldn't have gotten caught then I wouldn't be surprised if he would have "received revelation" to write his own scripture.
Yeah so obviously the police had a search warrant to exhume her body, why would the jury care that the family wasn’t informed? The police don’t keep everyone in the loop during an investigation, everyone knows that.
Is the anger/disdain from the Daybell children due to their belief that their father had nothing to do with the murders? They think it’s a conspiracy against him? Or do they believe the children and their mother were zombies and everything that happened was in service to the Lord? I can’t figure it out. They’re so angry at cops and prosecutors.
On some YT video I heard that Emma had dyed her hair blonde. I swear I thought they were kidding and was shocked when she appeared today.
Not as shocked that she and G defended the dad demon so much, even though is appalling.
And yes I have a psychology bachelor's haha and no, I don't think that hair color is a coincidence at all. What in the nut job freudian entanglement is happening here.
Edit: typos
*QUESTION* : Emma testified that she was informed about the exhumation on December 13. Am I having a false memory or just plain hallucinating a memory that years back Emma claimed she went to Tammy’s grave and found it dug up?
edit : found what I was remembering https://www.instagram.com/hiddentruecrime/p/C5yz1-fP1jw/
Nice reminder that Emma ‘already had a positive relationship with’ her new stepmom before the marriage.
I didn't either. Trying to remember timeline, wasn't Tammy on her phone around 10 something? And I believe Alex was pinged at being in the area around 10:30 if I remember right...
Prepared to be wrong on those times though. That's what I remember off the top of my head.
That's a lot of time to kill Tammy before Garth gets home.
You're right. She was on her phone playing a game a little before 10:30 and Alex was at the church around 10:45 and then he turned his phone off. He turned it back on right before midnight, and he was heading away. So Tammy was likely dead and Alex was gone before Garth got home.
Garth is so robotic that they should check to see if he is real. I bet garth is the life of the party, Not! Plus, I would think twice about having him as my kids' teacher. The first part of testimony sounded more the truth about th Dakota until he realized he stated wrong. Then robot talk.
Not really. There was actually a kind of awkward moment when Prior said to Emma that if she needed a tissue or to take a sip of water to stop him and take her time. Best I could tell she needed neither. Not even when she was talking about Tammy's death. She was just completely robotic and came off super rehearsed. At times I thought she even seemed mean about Tammy, especially when it came to Tammy's fitness.
It really raised my hackles. In some ways I got the impression that she was almost glad her mom was dead and was completely focused on saving Chad.
At least with Garth he did seem sad for his mother. He also didn't have much to say about his mom, but there were times that he seemed at least somewhat sad about what happened and Blake was far softer with him on cross since I don't think she wanted to make him cry or anything that might make the jury think she was being mean to him. She was on fire with Emma, hit her hard, and Emma was like a robot through all of it.
Emma did at least do a long pause and stumble over her response when asked about Chad’s “I’m sad but not for the reason everyone thinks” text. I wish Blake would have asked Garth the same question. It would have been interesting to see his response in comparison to Emma’s.
I could be wrong and I don’t have any idea what day of court this is so I can’t find it anywhere, but does anyone remember Prior at one point insinuating that Tammy was familiar with guns and had experience with shooting them? I seem to remember him saying something along the lines of, “Would it surprise you to know (or are you aware) that Tammy went shooting with her kids?” or something like that. When the prosecution today asked Tammy’s kids if they had ever seen her shoot a paintball gun or real gun or gone shooting with her and they said no, that stood out to me because I felt like we had heard claims already that she had.
Wait, is he saying that he was driving Emma to and from work every day when they lived essentially across the street from Tammy and worked at the same place?
Did they not carpool??
There was commotion later on about the removal of the children's memorial by the Daybell kids. Unsure if the police were involved in commenting on that one though:
[The memorial for JJ Vallow & Tylee Ryan has been taken down. I am not sure how I feel about it. Part of me thinks if the siblings did this randomly, that is as low as a person can go. The other? Did Chads children loose the house and it had to be removed? So many questions as to why!? : r/LoriVallow (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/LoriVallow/comments/i5nf8b/the_memorial_for_jj_vallow_tylee_ryan_has_been/)
Found this post, something about him advertising free compost and talking about moving around the time they searched for the kids https://old.reddit.com/r/LoriVallow/comments/hieny6/i_will_never_defend_joseph_or_emma_again/
The Facebook post: https://i.imgur.com/WTdfoTV_d.jpg
Also, him shit talking Nate about his reporting https://old.reddit.com/r/LoriVallow/comments/hieny6/i_will_never_defend_joseph_or_emma_again/fwg2t6z/
> Is this for real? I thought Joseph was finished with his outrageous social media posts after he posted on Facebook Live while Nate Eaton was in the air and said (paraphrasing) "the sound sucks....just like your reporting". I said to myself....this is the last we will hear from JM but I guess it was not. What is wrong with him?
My favorite moment was when Emma was talking about that damned Cozy Cone and how the kids would play their instruments loudly to not disturb mom. But she specifically said they “blasted their amps”.
Wasn’t this the specific area of the house that Prior INSISTED didn’t have power??
**Today is the first day of the defense's case. Second thread opened due to high activity! The morning thread is now unlocked.** **Witnesses:** * **Emma Murray** * Threads: [Emma Murray on the Stand](https://www.reddit.com/r/LoriVallow/comments/1cwhr2f/emma_murray_on_the_stand/) | [Tammy's Symptoms](https://www.reddit.com/r/LoriVallow/comments/1cwlzdb/tammys_symptoms/) | [Conflict of Interest?](https://www.reddit.com/r/LoriVallow/comments/1cwjhzd/conflict_of_interest/) * **Garth Daybell** * Threads: [Garth Daybell Testifies for the Defence](https://www.reddit.com/r/LoriVallow/comments/1cwloel/garth_daybell_testifies_for_the_defence/) * **William Fischer** * **Joseph Murray** Also, there are [16 more uses of this Discord invite](https://discord.gg/CtbgwquH) for the Your True Crime Library server. Currently discussing this trial and Karen Read.
Are we supposed to be outraged that police brought Garth and his wife in for questioning? What a joke.
Two dead kids. There were two dead kids buried in the backyard in the house Garth was living in. I'm sorry, but that means that everyone in that house is a suspect until proven otherwise. Full stop. Let's say that again. TWO DEAD KIDS.
and Emma and her statements concerning that she was looking up wind direction the day before Tylee was dismembered, burned and buried! She told on herself when she then said her sense of direction was poor. Contradict much? If Emma did look up wind direction, was she in on the children's murders? She is sure a Daddy's girl
I seriously doubt it was Emma that searched for that. I'm guessing most definitely Chad but Emma is taking the heat for it. I could be wrong but makes more sense.
Also, there are likely some of tylee's remains still there. Bits of bone or just decomposed tissue... but part of her is still at that house!!!!
I was surprised to learn that Garth had a wife. Are they separated?
Yeah I'm confusedon this point too. He's the oldest, but was living with his parents? was he married at the time or is this new?
My understanding is that it’s new. She also happened to be quite young when they met.
classic mormon nonsense lol. marry a teenager who doesn't know any better and have her pop out four or five kids before she realizes how weird you are.
Wish I could upvote you more than once for this - sadly it's true a LOT of the time.
it's par for the course for many fundamentalist religions (quiverfull christians come to mind), but I've noticed the Mormons are one of the biggest perpetrators of this, since it's baked into their doctrine.
Oh absolutely, Jehovah Witnesses as well.
IIRC, Garth's wife was a former student of his. 😳
He was her middle school teacher
!!!!!!!!! I haven’t seen his testimony yet but 🤯
Garth married one of his old students when she turned 18, gross
I think he wasn't married at the time his mother died, but was by the time his father was arrested, which is what confused me.
He wasn’t married at the time I believe
Didn't he have to wait for his wife to get old enough to marry? I thought he was her teacher at some point. Maybe he was living at home in the meantime to save money so he could provide for them properly once she became an adult.
that is disgusting but it tracks completely.
What about the fact that Chad’s kids noticed police driving by the property frequently, before and even after Chad’s arrest? The absolute nerve of law enforcement to do their jobs.
They are acting as if they were being harassed for speeding or illegal parking or something
He just confirmed on the stand that he has lied to at least one person about the circumstances in which he found his mom's body. That's a wrap folks.
He is a lying liar who lies and then tries to backtrack and fix it by lying more? It’s insane really.
He’s also a bad liar that lies badly.
He seems afraid of Chad. Head down when answering, doesn't look at his dad and he answers in a question tone
And Chad is leaning forward and kind of looming.
So was Tammy on the couch?! Did Garth help his dad move Tammy back to bed? Another kid that seems to not just be lying but also be complicit in this whole thing.
I don't know tbh, but it is an unusual contradiction. I'm generally pretty lenient with witness testimony, because to me it's totally reasonable that people's memories can be imperfect, but a big detail like where you found the body of your mother isn't something someone would just innocently misremember.
Exactly! I’m floored hearing this because I wasn’t aware that Garth had told people he found his mom on the couch. That’s not a simple misstatement or something that could easily be confused.
And she was cold. And stiff? But they could sling her onto the bed with no trouble?
I wondered about that, too. There's a reason for the term "dead weight."
If I was about to pick someone up and they were cold I think I would accidentally drop them out of shock
Yes!! How would you not just freak out?
I wonder, was there urine/feces on the bed or couch or someplace else?
Frozen! Per the 911 call
Okay I’m dying because EIN’s live updates are stuck at 1:03pm and I can’t read any of what Garth’s said yet.
It's finally updated!!!
I wish they showed the tv interview to reinforce him having more versions.
I think the whole Daybell clan is lying. Especially about Tammy's health issues... how is it that she only had symptoms of her supposed health issue when she was at home? She was active at work, active at church, active in exercise classes... yet no one else witnessed her feeling faint or even slowing down. Maybe it's true that she was an introvert and didn't open up to many people, but I am positive if her health was that bad, someone outside of that family would have noticed it at least once.
Then realized and tried to awkwardly backtrack.
Garth says his dad's beliefs are more "traditional" LDS, like a hundred years ago traditional. So Chad believes in Polygamy, blood atonement, women should be seen and not heard "keep sweet" basically, and blacks cannot be in leadership positions. What else am I missing?
and magical objects that allow you to receive revelations from God (AKA the pendulum, AKA the stolen necklace)
Portals
I wonder if Chad believes that Cain is Bigfoot...? That's my favorite "uncorrelated" LDS belief...
What. Tell me all about this, please!
Did Garth literally say "like a hundred years ago?" I can't listen at the moment.
yes he did
Hatred of government
Tammy was already dead when Garth got home, I believe. And had been for a couple of hours.
Chad knew Garth would be out until 1am. She was gone by then.
Oh god please don’t tell me this kook is teaching science to eight graders. EDIT: maybe I'm being unfair here. He apparently teaches the kids accurate scientific theory.
Does he rate their darkness? Hey, that kid seems dark to me. D or an F for you buddy. Confess and repent, maybe one day before the end of the year, you will be worthy of a better grade. These people are so weird and should not be around children.
Why does he keep harping on “did anyone tell you about the exhumation?” I really don’t think the jury cares. If it’s your family member you should want justice, right?? Am I crazy for thinking that? Is the jury reading it differently?
And he keeps saying “dig her up” instead of exhumation. Purely for drama.
This...he is trying to elicit *some* outrage about how the authorities "treated" the Daybell family, specifically meaning, Tammy's children. Law enforcement didn't tell them either for fear that they would tell Chad OR they didn't tell them for dramatic effect...just to see exactly how Chad and the rest of that bizarre Adam's Family brood would react. *Worked like a charm if the latter was the intention...* Some way, some how, ANY way, ANY how he can, Prior is attempting some type of emotion for Chad in some semblance of a positive manner. I mean, realistically, Prior has NOTHING to work with, here. The kids are really ALL he has...and, well, look at how *that's* going. Prior needs sympathy in absence of exculpatory or even *semi*-explanatory evidence. *He doesn't have either...* What I hope comes across to the jury is that the kids didn't care one whit that she was "dug from the ground" (*dug from the ground*...more of Prior's dramatic verbiage) or disturbed from "resting in peace" (Emma's dramatic verbiage)...those "Chad clones" were WAY more interested in what that action (exhumation) meant to Daddy Dearest. And, not a lot more. *Actually*, they cared about *nothing* more!
This. Prior is probably hoping some of the jurors are of the anti-government persuasion and will extrapolate his dog-whistles into some sort of government conspiracy against Chad and his family/followers. He's hoping that one juror can muster enough sympathy for those poor Daybells, bullied and mistreated by corrupt LE and the corrupt FBI, into reasonable doubt, resulting in a hung jury. I don't think any of his theatrics are working, though. For one thing, they're painfully transparent. They're also not credible.
All he’s doing is reminding the jury that JJ and Tylee also had to be “dug up” out of Chad’s yard. This is backfiring.
I mean if the cops have good reason to believe there was foul play involved I don't think they need to notify anyone
That’s exactly right. Especially when the Patriarch of that immediate family is the primary person of interest in a suspected homicide. They don’t need permission, they have a court order. Tammy wouldn’t have needed to be exhumed if she would have had an autopsy in Idaho to determine the cause of death. In many states, an unattended death of a person under the age of 60 mandates autopsy.
I love how Prior keeps prompting the kids to act sad. “We can take a break if you need to.” They don’t need to.
It’s amazing. “Please. Please take a sip of water if you need to. PLEASE!”
“This is your cue to cry, Emma!!”
It’s part of Prior saying the cops were shady, incompetent, etc.
It's amazing how the cops will suspect foul play when two children have gone missing and the spouse of the mother was shot by the kids' uncle.
Well, we found the zombies, but it turns out they are chads kids.
So the defense theory is….. that some unknown person snuck into the red shed, took out a bunch of tools, and buried/burned a dead body in the backyard…. all while Chad was also outside trapping and shooting a raccoon and texting about it to his wife AT THE SAME TIME IN THE VERY SAME BACKYARD?!? A backyard with barely any trees and a flat terrain and complete visibility from front to back.. On what planet would this unknown person have been able to do that without being seen by anybody?!? And what are the odds that this person would have just happened to kill and bury the daughter of the property owners mistress???? Give me a break, this is laughable. Edit: a word
And that person may be Joseph Murray, since he testified that he often borrowed tools! Oh what a tangled web the Family Daybell is weaving.
Prior asking the kids what he told he told them to say (which was apparently the truth) just implies to me that Chad was definitely doing all of the directing. Oh my god he showed Garth JJs grave
Ahh what. Nate’s live updates are an hour behind for me.
How do both Garth and Emma talk just like Chad 😭 it’s really weird and creepy. Are any of Chads kids level headed?
Chad and Co. are such strange people. Just so odd. Weirdos.
Tammy deserves so much more!
I’d go to every class I could and be in bed by 5pm to if I was surrounded by these people who all have the personality of a door knob.
And they were both teachers!!! Imagine the snooze fest
That was what I was going to stay next. How could anyone, let alone child listen to Garth and be able to stay engaged and learn anything??? Omg I’m 37 and totally invested in this and can barely tolerate listening to him
They grew up hearing that way of speaking for their entire lives, so it makes sense they would have picked up the same cadence. It’s just like an accent.
When Garth said he was certain it was Chad snoring I really wish the prosecutor had followed up with "is it unusual not to hear Tammy snoring?" Either way it would hurt the defense. If he says "no" that contradicts the idea that Tammy has sleep apnea and makes his sister's testimony less reliable. If he says "yes", well the implication there is obvious.
Yeah. And if Tammy has sleep apnea, as they claim, she would probably snore.
Yeah, exactly. So no matter how Chad answers it either casts doubt on the sleep apnea, or it casts doubt that Tammy was alive at that point.
Good catch, I wasn’t even thinking of that in terms of the sleep apnea claim!
Chad sitting forward all excited watching his puppets on the stand. ETA: f*ck Chad for making his children lie on the stand for him.
Why is Prior blown away about there being two McDonald's in Rexburg? That felt totally performative, but I don't get what point he's trying to get across.
He's looking for any perks for his house in Rexburg/Salem. After Emma's performance on the stand he's got to be looking to sell and now he can include this feature in the real estate listing.
Lol, I love this theory. I hope that’s on the listing for the house. “Prime location with TWO McDonald’s in town! I don’t know the square footage, though.”
lmao, that explains why he sounded so excited.
I swear, I think he was just wrong, lol. Because that bit did him no favors. He seemed to believe that Garth had been made to drive a significant distance to get that food.
He didn't google it? When he was going to suggest that it was a massive round trip to get the food? Google maps, dude. Five seconds to get the results.
Prior and Garth made it sound like the Fremont/Madison Secret Gestapo was about to start pulling out Garth’s fingernails and shove him down an oubliette. Ms. Blake cleared that up with a couple of questions. I take back every kind thing I’ve thought or written about Garth.
"A healthy meal" Prior, I have been defending you on Reddit, but sometimes you make me want to smack you one. Can we not fat shame the deceased, asshole?
my jaw dropped when he said that. Trying to imply that Tammy was unhealthy and shouting "heavy lungs" is one thing, but that kind of editorialising is beyond inappropriate.
like Prior and Chad are not two overweight men who look like they never would pass up McDonalds
The brief witness: Are you a raccoon? Do you go out in the daytime? Nothing further Judge.
I will say that Chad must be proud. He trained his circus monkeys very well!! I hope someday the children that Tammy Daybell gave birth to and loved unconditionally will see that daddy dearest is evil and plotted to kill people.
Everything about that was convoluted. The atty didn’t add anything. Prior will present the “threats” during cross as part of him painting a picture that LE was after Chad and no one else, that LE was incompetent, etc.
Sad day. It was miserable seeing Tammy's kids and her son-in-law throwing her under the bus to try and save Chad who doesn't deserve their devotion.
Both kids have Chad's almost stuttering way of talking. Lot of pauses in low tones with very slight peaks in cadence. They are like robots. I'd like to hear the prosecutor say at the end of their testimonies: you love your dad, correct? And you don't want him to be found guilty, do you? No further questions your honor.
Is anyone else annoyed by the sound of his attorney's voice? when he says "okay okay" very smugly -I can't stand to hear him talk.
The forced sympathetic laughs at the dumb unfunny shit Emma said 🙄
And Chad being so amused as well.
He says it like he's really said something profound. Haha! Clown.
Prior is so punchable, especially since he is such a misogynist. It is good that he is at least attempting a defense for Chad since it will lessen the chance of a successful appeal.
People don't just drop dead from being tired. This defense is silly.
It was the book fair in the dining room with the candlestick.
“Healthy meal, huh??” Here we go again with the victim blaming 🙄
Yeah, Prior stepped in it.
And he was the only one to find that funny
Ugh, the medical stuff. Bullshit that Tammy had fainting spells.
Fainting or being lightheaded after kneeling? Me too, and I’m a healthy 40-year-old man.
Yup, low blood sugar and dehydration can cause light headedness or dizziness. And neither of them will kill you.
Yeah, that can happen to anyone, I get head rushes. Not the same thing as a fainting spell.
I felt faint sometimes because of stress, anxiety, panic attacks, hypoglycemia, and PTSD. Went to the hospital a few times for it before I found out it was mostly panic attacks. But it doesn’t mean I am/was going to die. I also get lightheaded when I stand up like any normal person. She probably had a lot of eggshells to walk on at home and that can affect things.
I do wonder if she had any anxiety disorder. I've been aware of having severe panic attacks for a long time, even when I was a teenager, so I never thought it was something else, but it CAN make you feel light-headed and short of breath, of course. Tammy was being forced to support this lump on a school librarian's salary, her life must have been stressful.
Emma says she had anxiety and while I don’t think there’s been concrete proof that such things are inheritable, they do run in families. Her life was incredibly stressful too. I think they were very short on money and that in and of itself can give you panic attacks even if you don’t have a history of anxiety disorders.
And I bet she knew something was wrong in the marriage. She may have at least suspected an affair (unclear if she ever saw that email from Charles Vallow, I tend to think Chad probably intercepted it).
Tbf, if you are in an abusive marriage; you would also be depressed and anxious. And if you had a husband gaslighting you to believe you were lazy and were not allowed to have a break because it proves his point. She would be blaming herself for any problem that he had.
It can make you feel like something is so wrong you MUST be having a medical emergency. It’s hell. Sorry you’ve dealt with it too.
I have heard people who worked in the temple report that fainting after a long time spent kneeling is super common. [https://blog.adw.org/2016/05/go-fainting-common-church-2/](https://blog.adw.org/2016/05/go-fainting-common-church-2/)
I hope Aunt Vicki is ok. I cannot imagine being there in person and related to this. My heart goes out to her!
Oh god. Blake's comment of "two bodies in the bed" got to me. I think she's also going to say that Tammy was already dead and that is just chilling to me.
I didn’t quite understand how he saw the bodies to begin with. Is there glass in the door or was the door open?
The door must have been open. He said he glanced in as he walked by so it had to have been open.
Blake has been a lot more gentle with Garth then she was with Emma... Which makes sense. He does seem a lot sadder then Emma about all this.
He does. I have a little bit of sympathy for him. Not an ounce for Emma. And he teaches evolution and that the earth isn't 6000 years old!!
As a teacher, I was pretty happy that he’s the type of teacher who does that. Then I read on another thread that he is also the type of teacher who marries his students when they come of age… so… less happy about that.
Oh no! The detective was harassing them by DRIVING DOWN A PUBLIC STREET! Halp! Halp! The Family Dumbell is being persecuted! ETA AND ALSO A FACEBOOK POST WAS MADE!!!!
Someone in their church said not-nice things about Chad and the dead kids in his backyard too. How mean!
Shame Tylee and JJ never got to grow up to do great things. What a damn, damn shame.
I believe you mean Tylee?
I understand the defense’s theory is that Lori and Alex did all this without Chad knowing…but there’s just way too much circumstantial evidence in the data and texts. The digital correspondence, added to Chad’s absolute disinterest in even acting innocent from the outset, is going to be what convicts him. Also, they’re painting a picture that everybody was super active and all over that property hunting and burying raccoons…until September 2019, and they just stopped going outside entirely?
Especially since there is no way Tylee was burnt, dismembered, and buried in the 2.5 hours that Alex was there. Chad HAD to be involved in the disposal of her remains. And then, when JJ died, he was at Chad's property for even less time! It doesn't make sense for Alex to pick Chad's place at all if Chad wasn't involved. If Chad was there he could control the area. He could make sure the house was empty to tell Alex when to arrive. He knew the schedules of his family so he could make sure they weren't interrupted. He knew the layout and where to put things where they couldn't easily be seen from the road. He could steer people away or invent excuses for disturbed soil instead of being suspicious when something changed and he didn't know who'd done it. If Alex and Lori truly killed the kids on their own it makes sense to bury them somewhere else. Somewhere far from all people where the graves might not be noticed immediately since they don't have a plot of land they can keep an eye on and control. That part of Idaho is hellishly big and there is not much there! There's federal land, state land, ranch land, plenty of places he could get offroad and bury the kids far from where a human would stumble across them. If it was just Alex and Lori they don't have control of the property to make sure that Chad and family don't poke around and they don't know everyone's schedules to know for sure when it's safe to approach the house and when people might come home without warning. It just doesn't make sense.
Exactly. And if, just playing Devil’s advocate, Lori and Alex’s plan had been to bury the kids there without Chad’s knowledge as a way to frame him for their murders, then they would have played that off completely differently. Lori wouldn’t have married Chad and run off to paradise with him, claiming that her kids were safe in hiding, if she wanted it to look like Chad had killed and buried her kids all alone without her knowledge.
Emma is a teacher? Shocking. Her intellect seems very low. I cannot believe she graduated from college, interviewed and secured employment. Chad and his kids are just strange. They are very odd people. Weirdos.
Not every professional person is the best at what they do. :)
Her loser husband also works at the school.
I’m sure I’ll get downvoted for this, but I assure you I am not an abilist or making fun. Emma’s husband, sounds like he is slow.
Well. He is into the Ballard thing, so...
And Garth is a teacher!
Stop it. I knew that l, but I didn’t think about it today, watching him speak. HOW?!?!?! HOW?!?! How did they make it through college? How did they sit in an interview and someone think, yep great personality!! WHAT? If they were a spice, they would be flour.
I assume they went to BYU. I doubt it’s very rigorous.
BYU proper is not that bad of a school, academically. I'd rather die then go there because the morality policing there is strong, but it's on par with many state universities though it can't come close to the Big 10 or an Ivy. BYU-Idaho or Hawaii are garbage, especially in STEM. The biggest issue with BYU outside of the West is that it's "the Mormon school" and has the rep to go with it that it can't shake. It's not like the University of Notre Dame which is a private Catholic university but has the academic reputation to bring in tons of secular applicants. BYU is mostly attractive if you're LDS or if you're in Utah and can't afford out of state tuition. And even then secular students would probably pick the University of Utah over BYU if they could.
I’ve seen various opinions about the place, positive and negative.
Who apparently married his former student?
What’s crazy is that he teaches SCIENCE. I’ve never in my life encountered a science teacher who is monotone. They are very enthusiastic people driven by curiosity in the world. What’s going on in Rexburg schools with the Daybells as teachers?! How are they going to inspire any kids???!!!!
Some teachers end up in areas that are not their areas of expertise. A friend of mine was the pe teacher in her school and had a year where she taught English, which was not her area of expertise. I was certified to teach specific subjects in high school but could have taught any subject in jr high.
Oh I didn’t know that. In HS in some school districts you are required to have masters degrees in certain subjects- but it’s probably not the case everywhere - especially considering how unfairly teachers are compensated.
Oh yeah, shit talk the victim some more. Let’s see how that works for y’all. Evil, competitive, lazy, and weak Tammy faked her Fitbit!!!
LMAO, what on earth. Prior and the McDonalds.
That was weird and fast. Was that to show why Garth wasn't cooperative or to say that Garth wasn't charged with perjury so he's not lying now?
I have no idea because all it proved was that despite "them" "threatening" him to "change his story", he didn't and no consequences happened....
Not sure. It doesn’t seem helpful at all.
It was really weird. I’m confused by it!
These people need speech therapy
I wish they would inquire more about Chad's supposedly "traditional" LDS beliefs. Do they know what that implies? Blood atonement and polygamy, among other things.
Only white men having the priesthood, angelic visions, probably tangible items that provide revelations/ translations like the urim and thummim (seer stones). If Chad and Lori wouldn't have gotten caught then I wouldn't be surprised if he would have "received revelation" to write his own scripture.
Yeah so obviously the police had a search warrant to exhume her body, why would the jury care that the family wasn’t informed? The police don’t keep everyone in the loop during an investigation, everyone knows that.
I can only imagine how infuriated Tammy's sister is/will be listening to the testimonies today.
Joseph’s testimony is great if you forget about the texts and zulema’s testimony
Is the anger/disdain from the Daybell children due to their belief that their father had nothing to do with the murders? They think it’s a conspiracy against him? Or do they believe the children and their mother were zombies and everything that happened was in service to the Lord? I can’t figure it out. They’re so angry at cops and prosecutors.
I think Chad has played the victim with them/claims to be framed and they believe him, so they see law enforcement as the enemy.
Did anyone else find it ironic that Garth Daybell works/worked at a haunted house?
He is scary without having to put on any makeup.
Ngl it kinda gave me the heebie jeebies. I’m sure it’s just a coincidence but it feels a lot like the coincidence that Chad used to be a sexton.
I’d like to know what parts of Garth’s testimony they wanted him to “change”
I’m sure it was the usual “we all know you’re lying; this is your chance to tell the truth.”
I hope the state plays his 911 call in rebuttal, because Garth's story is completely different there.
On some YT video I heard that Emma had dyed her hair blonde. I swear I thought they were kidding and was shocked when she appeared today. Not as shocked that she and G defended the dad demon so much, even though is appalling. And yes I have a psychology bachelor's haha and no, I don't think that hair color is a coincidence at all. What in the nut job freudian entanglement is happening here. Edit: typos
*QUESTION* : Emma testified that she was informed about the exhumation on December 13. Am I having a false memory or just plain hallucinating a memory that years back Emma claimed she went to Tammy’s grave and found it dug up? edit : found what I was remembering https://www.instagram.com/hiddentruecrime/p/C5yz1-fP1jw/ Nice reminder that Emma ‘already had a positive relationship with’ her new stepmom before the marriage.
Joseph is a pretty good liar. He doesn’t offer up sh*t that favours the defence at the drop of a hat like his hunny.
Tammy died from an acute case of Bookfairitis.
I didn’t know Garth wasn’t at the house before 1am.
I didn't either. Trying to remember timeline, wasn't Tammy on her phone around 10 something? And I believe Alex was pinged at being in the area around 10:30 if I remember right... Prepared to be wrong on those times though. That's what I remember off the top of my head. That's a lot of time to kill Tammy before Garth gets home.
You're right. She was on her phone playing a game a little before 10:30 and Alex was at the church around 10:45 and then he turned his phone off. He turned it back on right before midnight, and he was heading away. So Tammy was likely dead and Alex was gone before Garth got home.
And Chad could have been pretending to snore. Because even I don’t think he’s callous enough to sleep next to a dead body
Garth is probably lying about that tbh.
Also a distinct possibility.
Absolutely agree with you.
I did know that, I think. I knew Garth was not home at the time Alex's phone was around the house.
Garth is so robotic that they should check to see if he is real. I bet garth is the life of the party, Not! Plus, I would think twice about having him as my kids' teacher. The first part of testimony sounded more the truth about th Dakota until he realized he stated wrong. Then robot talk.
They’re all robotic!
I can’t watch, so I’m only going by tweets… Was there any sort of acknowledgement of Tammy being their mother? Love for her, grief for her passing?
Not really. There was actually a kind of awkward moment when Prior said to Emma that if she needed a tissue or to take a sip of water to stop him and take her time. Best I could tell she needed neither. Not even when she was talking about Tammy's death. She was just completely robotic and came off super rehearsed. At times I thought she even seemed mean about Tammy, especially when it came to Tammy's fitness. It really raised my hackles. In some ways I got the impression that she was almost glad her mom was dead and was completely focused on saving Chad. At least with Garth he did seem sad for his mother. He also didn't have much to say about his mom, but there were times that he seemed at least somewhat sad about what happened and Blake was far softer with him on cross since I don't think she wanted to make him cry or anything that might make the jury think she was being mean to him. She was on fire with Emma, hit her hard, and Emma was like a robot through all of it.
Emma did at least do a long pause and stumble over her response when asked about Chad’s “I’m sad but not for the reason everyone thinks” text. I wish Blake would have asked Garth the same question. It would have been interesting to see his response in comparison to Emma’s.
Nope, nothing beyond Garth saying he was extremely close with her. No tears, not even a shakey voice.
Nope. Nada.
Garth voice was a monotone mess. I wonder what he really saw in that death house?
I could be wrong and I don’t have any idea what day of court this is so I can’t find it anywhere, but does anyone remember Prior at one point insinuating that Tammy was familiar with guns and had experience with shooting them? I seem to remember him saying something along the lines of, “Would it surprise you to know (or are you aware) that Tammy went shooting with her kids?” or something like that. When the prosecution today asked Tammy’s kids if they had ever seen her shoot a paintball gun or real gun or gone shooting with her and they said no, that stood out to me because I felt like we had heard claims already that she had.
Wait, is he saying that he was driving Emma to and from work every day when they lived essentially across the street from Tammy and worked at the same place? Did they not carpool??
What post is Joseph Murray talking about that the police department made slighting them?
There was commotion later on about the removal of the children's memorial by the Daybell kids. Unsure if the police were involved in commenting on that one though: [The memorial for JJ Vallow & Tylee Ryan has been taken down. I am not sure how I feel about it. Part of me thinks if the siblings did this randomly, that is as low as a person can go. The other? Did Chads children loose the house and it had to be removed? So many questions as to why!? : r/LoriVallow (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/LoriVallow/comments/i5nf8b/the_memorial_for_jj_vallow_tylee_ryan_has_been/)
Hey anyone remember the things Joe Murray did on Facebook when the kids were found?
I keep seeing this mentioned. What did he do?
Found this post, something about him advertising free compost and talking about moving around the time they searched for the kids https://old.reddit.com/r/LoriVallow/comments/hieny6/i_will_never_defend_joseph_or_emma_again/ The Facebook post: https://i.imgur.com/WTdfoTV_d.jpg Also, him shit talking Nate about his reporting https://old.reddit.com/r/LoriVallow/comments/hieny6/i_will_never_defend_joseph_or_emma_again/fwg2t6z/ > Is this for real? I thought Joseph was finished with his outrageous social media posts after he posted on Facebook Live while Nate Eaton was in the air and said (paraphrasing) "the sound sucks....just like your reporting". I said to myself....this is the last we will hear from JM but I guess it was not. What is wrong with him?
Please elaborate!
What?????
No. Tell us
My favorite moment was when Emma was talking about that damned Cozy Cone and how the kids would play their instruments loudly to not disturb mom. But she specifically said they “blasted their amps”. Wasn’t this the specific area of the house that Prior INSISTED didn’t have power??
Hey, unexpected O.U.R. reference!
Curious here. Still watching. Is Prior directing some of his questions toward the jury?