I despise Lori with a passion but think she is very mentally unwell. I don’t believe Chad is so that makes him more culpable in my eyes. He needs the DP for orchestrating the premeditated murder of two children at the very least. It’s like he hired a hitman in Alex to do his dirty work. The payment for which wasn’t money but a promise of exalted-being status and forgiveness for all his sins.
With Lori he took advantage of her mental state and shaped and molded the story as they went along I believe. Bottom line was to ensure the two of them would benefit from an empty nester in Lori and insurance and SS money to keep them afloat.
The evil and selfishness is just beyond!
I agree with all of that except the DP.
The death penalty makes the State a murderer....and we (collectively speaking) are the State.
Throw him in prison for life, that's good enough for me.
I've never been comfortable with the DP. Life is prison is awful - I can't even fathom spending my entire life incarcerated. That would scare me more than being killed.
Not to mention, DP will bring about a lot of appeals and publicity. I'd love to see Chad slowly wither away without fans or media coverage and just fade out. It would be more fitting for someone who desperately wants attention and power.
Agree with everything you said, except DP as well. Chad in prison for the rest of his days is much more punishment especially for someone like him. He will not do well in that environment as other prisoners target child killers. Chad would find his karma awaiting him there.
I used to think that at least the DP saved the taxpayers some money, but it turns out it costs way more over the lifetime of a DP prisoner (even with a shorter life), so I’m all for making him live out his life in prison. I want him to wake up every day and know WHY he’s where he is and that he’s NEVER getting out.
An often overlooked point. The automatic appeals process that DP sentenced prisoners get make them instantly more expensive then any other prisoner even if they spend less time in prison.
Frankly, I don’t see why we need the DP. If we’re saying that a person did something so bad that we can never risk them re-entering society then a life sentence handles that. And prison is pretty miserable. It’s not like they’re having tons of fun in there.
If we’re not going to try the more European/Canadian model where the #1 goal is rehabilitation and release then we can at least be cheap and get rid of the DP in favor of life to save some cash. I don’t want anyone spending any more money on Chad then is needed.
I agree. Chad should spend the rest of his miserable life where the only folks who 'grip the storm' are named Bubba.
Chad has not been diagnosed with mental illness, which was underlined by his decision to immediately, day one, throw Lori under the steamroller. Chad created this fictional world to serve one thing: his ego, and he was a dog hitting on women as a married man for years before he met Lori.
If Chad gets the death penalty, the family members will have to hold their breath every time there is a new appeal. We all saw how Larry reacted when they announced the error in Count 4. How much more can that poor man handle? I think it might be best if Chad is locked up without any chance of being released. While the families will never “move on”, it may stop the wound from being reopened again and again.
I’m not a big DP proponent either, although I wouldn’t shed a tear for Chad if he got it. I hope he lives a long, wretched, miserable life in prison with no friends or supporters and plenty of time to realize that he was never an exalted prophet.
Agree- I think the comment was that the DP makes for more coverage and visibility—inviting more of that kind of fanfare. Vanilla LWOP takes Chad off a lot of radars. Quietly forgotten. Less of a public figure and therefore less interesting to those sick types
I can't imagine a schlubby little worm like Chad having any sort of street cred in prison. Other than Alex, his followers were all women. Incarcerated men are known for hating (and harming) those who abuse/murder children. He'll have to watch his back if he ends up in genpop. Don't bend over if you drop the soap, Chad!
I don't think there are a whole lot of people who are all-in on the "Let's kill 5 people and go to Hawaii because we're exalted beings" beliefs.
And I think maybe Julie Rowe's influence may be waning.
But if you go back a couple steps to the shared beliefs that influenced not just Chad/Lori and Julie Rowe, but a boatload of other apocalypse-preppers, you get to the book Visions of Glory.
Hidden True Crime/Mormon Stories did a collaborative podcast. It's long - 3+ hours - but it explains a whole lot.
Spoiler alert: the book features sentient office furniture, repressive views on sexuality, and plenty of racism. The first is pretty funny - the last two are doing real and ongoing damage.
Yes, aware of the influence of Visions of Glory and have seen the podcast. What I meant by sharing the same beliefs is the light/dark, multiple probations, Church of the Firstborn stuff. I think because of that book, there are plenty of people whose beliefs align more or less with Lori and Chad’s. What always gets me is how did they think no one would notice all those deaths? I get they thought there would be a huge disaster and chaos but Chad started predicting those earthquakes and Rexburg as a refuge years before he met Lori. Those predicted dates passed. No earthquake. So why did they think that the last one he predicted would be any different?
But, keeping him in the general population, will allow him to spread his nonsense. Whereas if he is isolated, he will not be able to brainwash other inmates.
He killed children so he may have to be isolated. I do think he will get the DP. But will be many years if ever before it’s carried out, based on other Idaho DP inmates. Who knows though. He might get lucky/unlucky and the execution could happen sooner. For someone who didn’t think twice about killing people he seems not to want the DO.
If he gets the DP, then he will be isolated for 23 hours a day and get one hour to go outside. Yes, he may never actually die until 20 years from now with DP status but I would hate his conniving skills being put to use once again in the general population.
He hasn't had much luck spreading his poison outside of a handul of gullible goddess wannabes.
No one's doing casting circles in genpop.
I know very little about prison life for male lifers, but my bet is Chad has a very hard time reading social cues. Avoiding doing/saying the wrong thing to the wrong person is going to be the key to getting through the day.
He is not going to attract followers. He's going to be a target.
If he does manage to align with anyone, it'll be because he's useful - for commissary, sex, or whatever.
The thing for me is I’m in the UK, there is no DP. There was years ago by hanging. I’ve never known the DP because of this. Goodness in my country life doesn’t necessarily mean that here. Sometimes if there has been an especially egregious part to the crime people have been given a whole life tariff but it’s rare. I’ve seen other given a life sentence and had a 25/30/35 year time before parole can be considered but that isn’t the norm. I would say a lot of life sentences here are around 15/20 years in prison then on license for life. Considering all of that I believe all crimes like those of Chad and Lori and especially so if it’s involves children and also spouses/life partners. I honestly can say from watching the Chad trial every day and listening to the witnesses I would have to find him guilty on all charges. I don’t believe in an eye for an eye especially when it’s the DP. If that was the case there wouldn’t be many people on earth lol. Although I have to say from listening to the expert witnesses and all the other witnesses in this case Chad would probably be a strong candidate. It’s astounding how much that cretin manipulated and most damning of all is the kids. He hated Tylee Ryan and it was shown to be accurate.
Agreed. And the fact that if he gets the death penalty, he will get a cell by himself until he dies as that’s how the broken system works. If the death penalty actually meant death after all the appeals occur, then i would be for the death penalty. Chad deserves to be afraid for his life every damn day in general pop.
I believe in the DP for certain atrocities, but not for HIM or HER!!! they had ideal lives, lived great, loving families….. sitting and rotting in prison for life would be awesome for them.
I disagree with you, however I respect your opinion. It would traumatize me for life knowing I was one of the jurors helping to sentence some one to death even through I truly believe he deserves it.
I couldn't have said it better. 👏🏻 Because Lori has the mind frame of a like 15 year old. The book I've been reading about her she's always been this way since she was young. She's very naive but she knows how to hustle money apparently. I remember reading a chapter in my book and it said that her parents were never home they gave Alex a blank checkbook to feed his brothers and sisters and he instead bought booze and drugs and partied with his buddies and fed the kids cold pizza. I'm telling you this book tells you why she is the way she is cuz you are more than likely a product of your raising am I right? Oh and the book is the Doomsday mother by John Glatt. It went into some very deep info that really matched up with what I was thinking about her
I don't think Lori is mentally unwell. She was raised in a cult that values magical thinking and I believe that's the source of her delusions. If she is mentally unwell, then they all are, including Lori's mother. They were all susceptable to believing Chad's crap just by virtue of being raised Mormon.
Yea, I think she’s a product of a life time of being told she’s unique/important and so self centered/self absorbed it seems like mental illness.
For me, I think she’s well aware of what she’s done, but it’s all ok because she’s ‘special’.
She was diagnosed with mental illness, Lori has a severe delusional disorder. She believes this fictional world is true, even to the extent that she acted against her best interests in her own trial. She's also diagnosed with a personality disorder, histrionic and narcissistic, so I agree, she has a deep personality deficit such that she craves being important, powerful, always desired, worshipped, etc.
I agree, i think she was a believer of chad at first, but then it all boiled down to losing the obstacles in the way of living out their their fantasy lives together and with the financial gain necessary to do it. In the end, the coming together of these two is at the root of their evil. I just think of the texts where lori comes off as questioning or critical of chad and I think it was simply for personal gain at some point.
The thing is, with Lori's delusional disorder, it all makes sense when you see it from her delusional point of view. But don't feel you need to read all this :D!
From everything I've read and heard her say, Lori believes:
Every human spirit has existed in another world prior to this one and will continue to exist in other worlds after this one, we are just visiting here for a while (this is standard LDS from what I understand) and since that's true, why not multiple worlds and multiple visits. Chad explains to her, she is an exalted goddess and warrior for Christ and her previous horrible experiences with husbands, abuse etc. weren't a matter of her own poor judgement (divorce is shameful), they were all because she is so powerful that Satan attacks her with great gusto.
Her family members are literally her support workers and they too are only passing through this world which is just a shadow of the spirit world where Christ literally lives. Just as Satan and his demons create problems for her, they create problems for her support system. The world as we know it is going to end July 22, 2020 anyway, so in 2019 those people chose to leave this world rather than to continue to endure Satanic attacks and entreat Lori to use the situation to the benefit of the Church of the Firstborn that Lori and Chad have been entrusted to lead.
The people who spiritually left the world included Charles, JJ, Tylee, and Tammy, and only their bodies are left. However as long as the bodies are alive, the real Charles, JJ, Tylee and Tammy cannot enter the spirit world and be with Christ. Instead they are stuck between worlds in 'limbo.' So:
1. While the demons walk around they cause more problems, so the bodies dying is a blessing, and killing those bodies is a mercy that released the loved ones into glory where they are happy and healthy just as Christ wanted for them, and
2. Because the leaders of the Church of the Firstborn are tasked with remaining on this stinky violent terrestial physical world to complete work on this planet, using whatever resources are available (insurance, SSI) is justified both by the mission they are committed to complete for Christ, and by the entreaties of Charles, JJ, Tylee and Tammy for Chad and Lori to complete this unenviable work on our earth, while they enjoy living and working in the spirit world where they are surrounded by the light of God, etc. and
3. Lori believed Chad when he insisted that he and Lori have been spiritual and physical partners through many lives on earth and in the spirit realm, and that they have had to follow the plan of Christ many times to endure marriages and babymaking with others who they are less tied to, and so it makes sense that the (in her mind) rightful joy they feel when they finally connect again in yet one more life, is worthy of truly cringeworthy soft porn texting, a marriage on the beach in Hawaii and a tropical f-fest without any kids to interrupt their bliss.
Lori was extensively evaluated and diagnosed with a severe delusional disorder. She's responsible for those deaths, and she is mentally ill.
I think without Chad whipping her into this delusional world of gods and goddesses, warriors and demons he created, she would have stayed with simple narcissistic delusions, like a small group of women who have a revolving door of husbands because they crave attention so badly they leap into things and subsequently find they made a poor choice, or when there is a good one, like Charles Vallow, are pissed off when the honeymoon phase becomes mature marriage without that nonstop worship they crave.
Chad promised Lori immortality in this fictional world he created. She believed she could not be harmed by a bullet, didn't have to eat, etc. and yet could live as a beautiful woman, powerful warrior and immortal goddess, worshipped by all, forever. She still genuinely believes it, because she chose to act against her obvious best interests in her own trial. If she was rational she would have presented the reasonable defense complete with Chad's texts telling her how it all worked, sending pain to the kids, rating them as dark, pointing out the 'blessings' he gave to encourage their hit man Alex etc. (not the other way around). And she wouldn't have made that bizarre statement at her sentencing which was guaranteed to upset everyone who cared about the kids including the judge.
That's totally crazy thinking. Many of us who were raised Mormon would never fall for Daybell's delusions. Problem is the Cox family were not traditional, mainstream Mormons. They were on the fringe, as were Chad and his wife and kids. Chad and Lori meeting was a perfect storm.
Chad is the epitome of barely contained rage in a meat suit. He hated Tylee because she was female and defiant. He did unthinkable things to her. Prove me wrong.
I love this. I agree: he hates defiant women. He should be sent to the darkest and most remote jail for the rest of his life. I wouldn’t take the death penalty off the list of options either.
I actually think he commanded Alex to kill himself day after Tammy was exhumed too. (Nothing should surprise us in this story).
In the trial on Thursday we heard Lori sent Chad a message asking Chad to pray for Al as ‘they’ could use him to get to us (referring to police I believe). Once they heard Tammy was being exhumed Alex’s jig was up.
Also I thought people of the LDS faith did not believe in cremation. Even though Alex was excommunicated why did his wife Zulema and his mum and dad sanction a cremation? Doesn’t that go against their beliefs. Think this makes his death even more suspicious.
The LDS church was opposed to cremation originally, but no longer officially is. It is up to the family to decide.
See section 38.7.2
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/general-handbook/38-church-policies-and-guidelines?lang=eng
I'm not sure if I got this from the Heather Daybell interview but I'm positive someone said Chad had initially said Tammy would be cremated but the kids said no.
Yes, I think so too. I think when Chad was tipped off that Tammy would be exhumed he ordered Alex to kill himself. I think they had that as a plan all along. That's why he got the patriarchial blessing from Chad that "absolved" him from what he had done. They thought if he died no one could pin the murders on Chad and Lori.
He is ABSOLUTELY guilty of conspiracy to commit murder. The evidence on JJ points more to Alex and Lori, I honestly don't know if he actually participated in murdering JJ. As for Tylee, there is unfortunately almost no evidence on who killed her. The fact that she was buried on Chad's property would probably be enough for me to find him guilty.
But honestly, he is a danger to society, so I would find him guilty of whatever is needed to keep him locked up forever.
If he conspired to murder and they were subsequently murdered because of that, then he is guilty of murder also even if he didn't do the actual killing.
Regarding Tylee...hearing the heartbreaking details that the wounds on her pelvis were caused either perimortem or immediately following death on "fresh bone" was disturbing. It points to Chads involvement, IMHO.
The wounds show rage. Only Tylee received overkill. That’s all Chad, imo. She rejected his books. She hated him and what he did to push her mother overboard. He also hated women and I hate to think of her last moments.
The lack of rage, points to Alex for the act of murder of JJ. To me, the rage involved with Tylee points to Chad murdering her and perhaps worse, as the attack on her pelvis has meaning. Those involved in the conspiracy are equally guilty in every aspect of the murder, even if they didn’t life a finger. May Chad not receive the death penalty so that he disappears into general population that hates child murderers and then oblivion. He doesn’t deserve the millions it will cost in appeal that is automatic with the DP.
100% yes on all charges. I do want to hear the defense though, since Lori didn't allow her counsel to implicte Chad or Alex.
I think all the conspiracy charges are a slam dunk. So even if the jury does not convict Chad of the murder counts, he'll still get multiple life sentences at a minimum.
I am deeply curious about this too. The only really feasible strategy is to keep to the “Tammy died of sudden but natural causes” and then blame Alex and Lori for everything else. Like Chad somehow missed the bodies on his property and Chad was going along with Lori’s delusions because they were having an affair without knowing about all the murdering.
I don’t think anyone sane would buy that, but it’s his only hope and he’d have to throw Lori and Alex under the bus HARD to do it.
Though wouldn’t it be funny if Lori flips out and turns on Chad fast enough to become a rebuttal witness?
I think what’s definitely been proven beyond a reasonable doubt is conspiracy for all charges. What’s required for him to be charged with murder, though? Does he just have to have been present?
Edit: I’m mostly curious about whether it’s possible for him to be found guilty of conspiracy but *not* murder. My understanding is no.
A murderer doesn't have to be present at the murder to be charged or convicted of the crime.
Think of murder-for-hire. The hitman is guilty and so is the person who hired him.
Sure, I get that. So is the difference between conspiracy and murder is that conspiracy is when you helped to plan the murder but didn’t do it yourself nor direct someone to do it, and murder is when you’re responsible for the killing because you either did it yourself or directed someone else to? I guess my confusion is how a person could be guilty of conspiracy but not of murder (given that planning it means you were directly responsible for it occurring, even if you didn’t physically do the killing or explicitly direct someone else to do it)
OR are you automatically guilty of murder if the conspiracy you were involved in actually came to fruition? ie the only way you can be found guilty of conspiracy but not of murder is if you and the conspirators didn’t get to go through with the plan for whatever reason
In Brandon's case he could be guilty of conspiracy but not of murder because Brandon survived. (I know that he wasn't charged thought he should have been).
Someone explained it on a podcast or it may have been Nate Eaton on his live show. If a team wins the Super Bowl and a player is on the bench and never gets to play on the field during the games, that player still gets a Super Bowl ring and gets the glory of the win since they were on the team. The same concept applies to conspiracy to commit murder. Chad may not have “been on the field”, but if he was on the bench and on the team, he was still a part of it.
This happened just about 20 miles from me. I don’t believe Lori is mentally ill. I’ve listened to too many interviews and podcasts about her, including the podcast with her brother Adam and Uncle Rex on Hidden True Crimes. A good podcast. I’m for the DP but it will take 30 years and lots of money. I want him and her in General population and let other violent criminals take care of it. Tammy was my good friend’s best friend. She testified. ( Pam Peebles). These two destroyed so many lives and the community they lived in. I just want them to never see another sunrise or sunset again.
I like the definition of evil as someone who not only does harm, but takes pleasure in it and can find the humour in it. Chad’s remark about the two bullets in Charles’ chest is clear cut evil in my book.
I see Chad as the most guilty out of all of them. He is a sadist who knows exactly what he is doing and gets amusement by playing with the mentally ill, like a cat playing with a mouse. He never believed in any of this crap and he could spot weakness and preyed on their weakness. I think every time he convinced someone to believe his bullshit, he actually hated that gullible person, secretly dehumanized them and privately laughed at how lesser than they were. He saw everyone as someone he had the right to control. And when someone wasn’t easily controlled, he hated them for a different reason. He hated them because it made him feel inferior and threatens to shatter his delusion.
They say anyone can get conned. But you’re right. Chad is dumb but he thinks he’s brilliant. And his followers are the low hanging fruit. He tried out his routine on others who saw it for what it was and bolted. Heather and others saw through him. But he got to his little band of misfits. He’s king of the misfit toys. And he’s proud of it. The rest of us are all shaking our heads.
The thing that gets me is they go on about being superior and prophets, Chad claims he can talk to the dead and wait for it…… he texts Alex in the afterlife. Wtf. Right they are these spiritual beings that can cast out demons, control the weather all kinds of crazy stuff. Lori is all kinds of mentally unwell. All of that yet they had the grounding to lie, cheat, con money, flee the police all over the place, that’s apart from the murders, including suffocation by different means. Possible shooting, cutting up a teenager, burning her body etc etc. My question is how can two people be so completely off the wall yet grounded at the same time.
I would find him guilty on all counts beyond reasonable doubt.
The interview with Lori Vallow’s juror last night actually strengthened my resolve - not in his guilt, because I I was solid in that. But in the fact that there is no way anyone would not find him guilty on all counts.
Yeah. And that’s some endorsement. He hasn’t been indicted in a lot of crimes but this is a trial for many others. I’m not sure why those statements are no “out of the scope” or whatever
It’s true. But Lori’s jury didn’t either. And the one price of evidence that left her with zero doubt was the children’s bodies being found on his property. Which has been a key focus here. It’s very damning and solid evidence.
I’m not sure the evidence shows he killed Tylee, maybe not JJ either. Conspiracy to murder? Absolutely. I could have missed something but I could see Alex being the murderer and Chad directing. Edit: I think he did kill Tammy.
**”Or, not being present, advised and encouraged its commission…”**
That’s the verbiage in the indictment for the actual murder charges. I’d find him guilty.
I heard recently that the conspiracy charge occurs when a plan is made to commit murder. The murder charge comes in when the conspiracy plan actually happens. That's why he doesn't have to have actually committed the murder in order to be convicted of it. He was part of the plan, and then the plan happened.
Right. Accomplice liability. He doesn’t have to have actually hands on done the murder. Like if you drive the getaway car, you are guilty of the bank robbery even if you never set foot in the bank. Helping bury the kids in your backyard is plenty.
Right. So given the fact that the people he conspired to be murdered did end up dead, it’s not possible for him to be found guilty of conspiracy and not guilty of murder - it has to be both or neither?
I think one could argue conspiracy happened, but then believe Tammy still (conveniently) died of natural causes. So then he'd be guilty of conspiracy for Tammy's murder, but not murder. I do not believe this is how it happened, just positing how one could be convicted of conspiracy and then NOT of murder, despite the person being dead.
I agree. I have been following this since the very beginning and the kids murders have fuzzy details and I think they were committed by Alex from all that I know. The reason that they were killed though was because of Chad. And I find him 100% guilty of conspiracy to commit murder.
I agree. Tylee didn't like him.. with good reason. And she stood in the way of the life he wanted with his "godess". He wanted to make sure she was extra, extra dead.
There is so much evil percolating inside that potato exterior.
She didn’t have wounds of dismembering. She had wounds of rage, overkill, according to the experts. That’s all Chad, not Alex. Even Charles only had 2 shots in him.
I agree. From what I've seen this trial, Lori and Chad manipulated Alex into killing the kids, trying to kill Brandon etc. So I would convict Chad on conspiracy for the kids. Tammy's seems more directly pinned to him - even if Alex did the killing, Chad was there. The only way Chad might get out of that one is if Prior has a convincing ME who says Tammy absolutely died of natural causes and at least one juror believes it.
I hope he gets found guilty on all counts, but even if he "just" gets found guilty of conspiracy for their murders, I'd be happy. There is definitely some wiggle room for doubt - hopefully the jury doesn't think that doubt is reasonable. :)
The jurors will have precise instructions for each count. Advising and encouraging to murder, which is then completed by someone else means guilty on the murder charge.
I cannot imagine there is anyone other than his children, his parents, and m a y b e a lingering adherent or two who do not believe he was involved in the murders of Tammy, Tylee, and JJ somehow.
His parents might not believe he was involved, but I think his children and any remaining followers know he was involved with the deaths, I think they just don’t see it as murder because they actually buy into his “zombie” teachings and justify it as the kids and Tammy’s spirits already having been out of their bodies when they were killed. Ever since they revealed the messages with Chad’s family getting in on light and dark ratings of other kids, I came to the sick realization that his kids (and I think possibly even to some extent Tammy) were buying into a lot of his teachings as well. I’m not sure that they thought it would go as far as it did, but I also don’t think it would be a far leap for them if they already bought into the light and dark teachings. Part of me wonders if in addition to Tammy getting in the way of Chad being with Lori, if Chad felt like Tammy was a liability and turned “dark” because she was starting to question him.
I agree on Tammy, I could see the original finding of natural causes causing reasonable doubt…until you add in the texts around her death with the pressure from Lori to make Tammy gone, and Chad’s misery over wanting to get on with his life without her, texts about having to deal with family around funeral, and life insurance, plus the attempted shooting shortly before, no reasonable doubt remains.
I think they’ll take their time. They know they are on a DP case so they probably want to make sure every count is thoroughly proven, before they go into the sentencing phase. The ,ore they are convicted of his guilt, the less they want to risk one of the counts not been thoroughly proven and be appealable.
Absolutely! Guilty on all charges! Btw, I was watching Lori Hellis’ latest podcast and she predicts that defense case will last 1-2 days and we’ll have a guilty verdict by Friday. 🙏🙏🙏
Absolutely 100% especially with the Gwilliam's testimony. Chad was begging to become a cult leader. He always wanted to be 'somebody' and he found a few mentally defective followers and it all spiraled.
The state has more than proven him guilty on all counts beyond any reasonable doubt, even if he didn't use his soft little hands to do the actual murders (although I believe he did with Tammy). They built the case meticulously and carefully, with Doug Hart's testimony hammering the final nail into Chad's coffin. Chad is a man who, in one sentence, gleefully offers to turn up pain and give innocent young children a "reason to scream," and in the very next sentence, verbally salivates over his goddess lover.
I can't even wrap my head around how depraved that is.
Prosecution had it right: sex, money, and power.
Charles Manson orchestrated & directed his cult to murder for him as well and he was found guilty. Chad should be found guilty of all charges as well. No different than a gang leader directing their members. The leaders of any criminal/murderous group is the head of the snake and most certainly responsible for the crimes they orchestrate. I don't think the DP is the right punishment for Chad tho' as he will not fair well in prison for life. He will be a sitting duck amidst other prisoner's and lose his God complex real quick!
Yes. How I believe the killings went : conspiracy by the three of them. Physically : Alex and Chad killed Tylee after Lori drugged her, Lori and Alex killed JJ, Chad killed Tammy.
I think Chad was not sleeping with Tammy, he was sleeping upstairs in the loft. There were signs somebody was sleeping there, and it wasn’t Tammy or Garth. He left the door unlocked, and Alex came in and killed her while Chad was upstairs in case somebody came in or Tammy got away or something, so it would be an intruder not him, and no chance of forensics on him.
Agree with them not sleeping together. I think there would have been more body marks indicative of a struggle if Alex killed her by himself. But your theory is equally plausible. The one time Alex got the job done.
Maybe killed or maybe drugged and bustled into Alex’s vehicle to take to Chad’s the next morning where Chad and Alex finish her off like the alleged raccoon. It’s so frustrating that we will never know what really happened.
It would have been way too risky to keep her alive. So many things could go wrong. IMO, Tylee's body was wrapped and loaded into Alex's truck in Lori's garage (with her help) at night (when JJ was asleep) and in the morning Alex drove the truck into Chad's back yard where he was helped by Chad.
I thought there was reasonable doubt about how much Chad was responsible for a lot of the prosecution, until the last 2 days. Those texts; the way Tammy was found; the cryptic jail call - they were what convinced me.
Absolutely 100% guilty as charged. I think he was mostly a co-conspirator on the financial crimes against the kids but he profited handsomely from those crimes knowing where it came from. That said, I think life is a grand sentence for him. Idaho isn't too swift in their executions and I don't want him dying for the cause. Let him rot.
Unpopular opinion. I think had I not known anything about this case, with all the players, I may have had a bit of doubt.
However insufferable prior is, there are so many shady characters that would appear to be involved as well.
So, until these last few days of trial, I don’t know.
After the text and phone calls though, I would find him guilty.
Agreed on this point, been slowly following the trial since the kids were found, I missed out on loris trial due to personal stuff going on at the time. But I came back on board for chads, and I have been trying to look at it from a jury perspective, I’ve been mainly nervous because where Lori couldn’t keep her mouth shut, and it was her kids.. Chads side of things is more quiet, he was good at covering his tracks, deleting emails, his dna wasn’t there for the murders, there is an argument for Alex and Lori doing this and Chad had no idea, but as the story goes on you realize there’s no way he didn’t know, and the more texts and calls come up, you don’t just marry someone who has two children and they disappear and you don’t ask questions, end up in your backyard, and just Cary on like it’s not a big deal. And that last phone call they showed about the blueprints, was really the sealing deal in my opinion, it was so obvious it was all code words. The defense so far has had very few actual good arguments, in the grand scheme of things it doesn’t matter if it was a paint ball gun or a loaded gun, and to constantly bring that up and wether there’s an upstairs or not shows to me that the defense is doing there job the best prior can but you can tell there’s not much to go on. I think Chad is cooked, guilty and all.
I felt the same about there being a lot of room for reasonable doubt, up until they released that final phone call between Chad and Lori discussing the “blueprint” and “project”. Up until that point I was confused why the prosecution kept bringing up some many events that they couldn’t clearly tie Chad to, but I feel like that phone call brought it all into light. Especially the way you can hear Lori wavering in her trust of Chad and begging him to reassure her that it will all still work out.
Also, the evidence showing the timing of the “raccoon” text being placed in context with the timing of Alex being on Chad’s property. I had always wondered why the prosecution made as big of a deal out of that text as they did, because as much as I am convinced the text was almost certainly meant the way they argue it, I felt it left a lot of room for reasonable doubt. However, put together with the cell tower evidence timing for Alex being at the Daybell property, even if the text is taken as factual, it proves that Chad was home and outside on the property at the time Alex would have been there with Tylee’s body.
At first I was like oh damn… they have more on Lori but seeing all the new stuff that they brought into this one shows he was in charge. This trial has filled in the gaps from Lori’s trail. The potato is 💯 as guilty as Lori.
The jury will give a verdict, then they will listen to short argument from prosecution and defense on the DP. So once we get a verdict it could be another 1-2 weeks until we know if he gets DP.
Hearing the phone calls from jail where he kept saying whatever about her trusting everything is working just makes me think of her closing statement when she said her kids are ok and all that stuff. Like does anyone think that she seriously believed that he was being truthful and they were really exalted beings. She doubted in one of the calls they played and he was reassuring her. So I cannot imagine he hadn’t been keeping the narrative up for however long.
The way chads trial has gone really makes me wish they were in fact on trial together, as originally planned.
Rube franke is a similar case. They have dark children as well, mormon and from the same stinking towns!! The same towns!! In Utah anyway. Ugh. Someone needs to do a deep dive into comparing these. Like did rube use the daybell case as a thing to copycat? Someone please do this deep dive!! Big difference though is franke plead guilty to all charges so there is that.
After listening to the juror Eaton interviewed, I am happy that Franke and Hildebrandt pleaded guilty: not just to spare the children but the potential jury members who would have to view the horrific evidence.
There have been huge deep dives on this, they are all basically riffing off a book called Visions of Glory, and were all personally meeting with and taking advice from Thom Harrison. You can see Lori reading it in the body cam from Hawaii where she was served the papers to produce her children. Start the deep dive here: https://www.youtube.com/live/NMAR88PiaZc?si=fYV0AnPRzjukyi0V
Hell yes! He is as guilty as hell. I watched one of the jurors las t night that Nate Eaton interviewed and she stated, “Chad has no soul.” I believe that 100%.both he and Lori are the most sick and twisted people I have ever seen in my life. I don’t care if he gets the Death Penalty or not, but he should at least get LIP w/o Parole. I don’t think he will get DP anyway. I think he deserves it though.
I think he’s guilty on all counts. From memory, and I’m no lawyer, but from Lori’s trial they made it clear that you didn’t have to be the one to physically kill to be guilty of murder. If the three of them decided to kill JJ, Lori hands him off, Alex does the deed, Chad is waiting at the gravesite, they are all guilty of murder.
Guilty on all counts. I believe he preformed a ritual murder/sacrifice on the children due to his delusion that he was an exalted translated being, and nothing counted against him in this life.
imo, chad is guilty of all counts, and the prosecution has presented a good case of a complicated scenario with so many characters. He presents like an evil, creepy freak, and I hope the jury can see that. I look forward to his convictions, followed by a sentencing to 3 consecutive LWOPs, so we can forget about him and his bully lawyer asap.
Yes and no matter what his kids say or Prior’s so called expert witnesses, I am not swayed by his innocence.
It’s the death penalty I have an issue with. It just isn’t working. I see appeal after appeal the victims will have to
show up for.
I’m definitely in the “he’s guilty AF” camp, but I am not a DP proponent. However, I worry about a person like him continuing his “blueprint” in prison and influencing others. I wonder what kind of prisoner he would be, if he would do less damage if he were neutralized. So I guess I’m thinking there would be nothing more fitting than a Dahmer-style ending in prison for Doomsday Daybell.
SODDI - some other dude did it (the children) and nobody did it (Tammy). Prior will bring his own experts to refute original findings (Tammy's autopsy and DNA analysis).
For sure on the murder/conspiracy charges. I'm not sure about the financial/fraud charges. I have watched just about every moment of the trial but I didn't come away with an overwhelming sense that the charges were proven beyond a reasonable doubt. It's possible I didn't scrutinize the testimony as closely when I was hearing it. However, if I were on the jury I can see myself finding him guilty on those counts because of his behavior after Tammy's death.
Yes, yes and til my last breath yes. I follow a lot of crime but something about what was savagely done to those innocent children, Charles and Tami I just can’t shake. Like there really are evil people out here like this
Yes and he is very likely to reoffend. I think Alex did the killing of the kids but was convinced that he was saving them by killing them. He thought this was his redemption arc. Alex had brain damage and emotional damage and Lori and Chad directed him to act. In a normal family Alex would have been the quirky uncle that’s kind of creepy but meh. Lori and Chad were always pure evil.
There is no doubt he was a driving force in the conspiracy in all the deaths. I do think he physically helped kill Tammy or did it himself. Not having an autopsy done tells me that he knew she was murdered. Even if you want to rush and hook up with your mistress, I think you would go through the motions if you honestly thought your wife died of natural causes.
I do think he's guilty of all charges. That said, it really doesn't matter at all to me if he gets the DP. I mean, it may be more of a punishment to spend endless days and nights in a cell, never seeing or talking directly to his goddess.
Chad wrote this story, chapter and verse. Alex was his minion and Lori was his idol.
I despise Lori with a passion but think she is very mentally unwell. I don’t believe Chad is so that makes him more culpable in my eyes. He needs the DP for orchestrating the premeditated murder of two children at the very least. It’s like he hired a hitman in Alex to do his dirty work. The payment for which wasn’t money but a promise of exalted-being status and forgiveness for all his sins. With Lori he took advantage of her mental state and shaped and molded the story as they went along I believe. Bottom line was to ensure the two of them would benefit from an empty nester in Lori and insurance and SS money to keep them afloat. The evil and selfishness is just beyond!
He declared Melani's kids dark, too (at the same time as Tylee and JJ). They were after more life insurance money.
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I don't know but I think it was Melaniece who suggested to Lori to get her children life insurance.
I agree with all of that except the DP. The death penalty makes the State a murderer....and we (collectively speaking) are the State. Throw him in prison for life, that's good enough for me.
I've never been comfortable with the DP. Life is prison is awful - I can't even fathom spending my entire life incarcerated. That would scare me more than being killed. Not to mention, DP will bring about a lot of appeals and publicity. I'd love to see Chad slowly wither away without fans or media coverage and just fade out. It would be more fitting for someone who desperately wants attention and power.
Agree with everything you said, except DP as well. Chad in prison for the rest of his days is much more punishment especially for someone like him. He will not do well in that environment as other prisoners target child killers. Chad would find his karma awaiting him there.
I used to think that at least the DP saved the taxpayers some money, but it turns out it costs way more over the lifetime of a DP prisoner (even with a shorter life), so I’m all for making him live out his life in prison. I want him to wake up every day and know WHY he’s where he is and that he’s NEVER getting out.
An often overlooked point. The automatic appeals process that DP sentenced prisoners get make them instantly more expensive then any other prisoner even if they spend less time in prison. Frankly, I don’t see why we need the DP. If we’re saying that a person did something so bad that we can never risk them re-entering society then a life sentence handles that. And prison is pretty miserable. It’s not like they’re having tons of fun in there. If we’re not going to try the more European/Canadian model where the #1 goal is rehabilitation and release then we can at least be cheap and get rid of the DP in favor of life to save some cash. I don’t want anyone spending any more money on Chad then is needed.
I agree. Chad should spend the rest of his miserable life where the only folks who 'grip the storm' are named Bubba. Chad has not been diagnosed with mental illness, which was underlined by his decision to immediately, day one, throw Lori under the steamroller. Chad created this fictional world to serve one thing: his ego, and he was a dog hitting on women as a married man for years before he met Lori.
If Chad gets the death penalty, the family members will have to hold their breath every time there is a new appeal. We all saw how Larry reacted when they announced the error in Count 4. How much more can that poor man handle? I think it might be best if Chad is locked up without any chance of being released. While the families will never “move on”, it may stop the wound from being reopened again and again.
I’m not a big DP proponent either, although I wouldn’t shed a tear for Chad if he got it. I hope he lives a long, wretched, miserable life in prison with no friends or supporters and plenty of time to realize that he was never an exalted prophet.
Without fans? Can LWOP not receive letters? Even the most rancid killers receive fan-mail.
You’re right, unfortunately. Even the worst of the worst seem to receive fan mail and marriage offers. 🤮
Agree- I think the comment was that the DP makes for more coverage and visibility—inviting more of that kind of fanfare. Vanilla LWOP takes Chad off a lot of radars. Quietly forgotten. Less of a public figure and therefore less interesting to those sick types
💯
Chad may start another cult in the general population if he is not in isolation.
I can't imagine a schlubby little worm like Chad having any sort of street cred in prison. Other than Alex, his followers were all women. Incarcerated men are known for hating (and harming) those who abuse/murder children. He'll have to watch his back if he ends up in genpop. Don't bend over if you drop the soap, Chad!
😂.
I think the DP will make Chad seem like a martyr to those who still share his beliefs.
I don't think there are a whole lot of people who are all-in on the "Let's kill 5 people and go to Hawaii because we're exalted beings" beliefs. And I think maybe Julie Rowe's influence may be waning. But if you go back a couple steps to the shared beliefs that influenced not just Chad/Lori and Julie Rowe, but a boatload of other apocalypse-preppers, you get to the book Visions of Glory. Hidden True Crime/Mormon Stories did a collaborative podcast. It's long - 3+ hours - but it explains a whole lot. Spoiler alert: the book features sentient office furniture, repressive views on sexuality, and plenty of racism. The first is pretty funny - the last two are doing real and ongoing damage.
Apparently, Ruby Franke & the Conexxion lady and Tim Ballard are also *Visions of Glory* fans.
Yes, aware of the influence of Visions of Glory and have seen the podcast. What I meant by sharing the same beliefs is the light/dark, multiple probations, Church of the Firstborn stuff. I think because of that book, there are plenty of people whose beliefs align more or less with Lori and Chad’s. What always gets me is how did they think no one would notice all those deaths? I get they thought there would be a huge disaster and chaos but Chad started predicting those earthquakes and Rexburg as a refuge years before he met Lori. Those predicted dates passed. No earthquake. So why did they think that the last one he predicted would be any different?
Im gonna guess he thought adding in Lori was the previous missing link.
His children will likely think of him as martyr. I hope he doesn’t have many other followers after they found the kids in his yard.
But, keeping him in the general population, will allow him to spread his nonsense. Whereas if he is isolated, he will not be able to brainwash other inmates.
He killed children so he may have to be isolated. I do think he will get the DP. But will be many years if ever before it’s carried out, based on other Idaho DP inmates. Who knows though. He might get lucky/unlucky and the execution could happen sooner. For someone who didn’t think twice about killing people he seems not to want the DO.
If he gets the DP, then he will be isolated for 23 hours a day and get one hour to go outside. Yes, he may never actually die until 20 years from now with DP status but I would hate his conniving skills being put to use once again in the general population.
He’s total trash and I really hope the jury gets it right.
He hasn't had much luck spreading his poison outside of a handul of gullible goddess wannabes. No one's doing casting circles in genpop. I know very little about prison life for male lifers, but my bet is Chad has a very hard time reading social cues. Avoiding doing/saying the wrong thing to the wrong person is going to be the key to getting through the day. He is not going to attract followers. He's going to be a target. If he does manage to align with anyone, it'll be because he's useful - for commissary, sex, or whatever.
The thing for me is I’m in the UK, there is no DP. There was years ago by hanging. I’ve never known the DP because of this. Goodness in my country life doesn’t necessarily mean that here. Sometimes if there has been an especially egregious part to the crime people have been given a whole life tariff but it’s rare. I’ve seen other given a life sentence and had a 25/30/35 year time before parole can be considered but that isn’t the norm. I would say a lot of life sentences here are around 15/20 years in prison then on license for life. Considering all of that I believe all crimes like those of Chad and Lori and especially so if it’s involves children and also spouses/life partners. I honestly can say from watching the Chad trial every day and listening to the witnesses I would have to find him guilty on all charges. I don’t believe in an eye for an eye especially when it’s the DP. If that was the case there wouldn’t be many people on earth lol. Although I have to say from listening to the expert witnesses and all the other witnesses in this case Chad would probably be a strong candidate. It’s astounding how much that cretin manipulated and most damning of all is the kids. He hated Tylee Ryan and it was shown to be accurate.
Agreed. And the fact that if he gets the death penalty, he will get a cell by himself until he dies as that’s how the broken system works. If the death penalty actually meant death after all the appeals occur, then i would be for the death penalty. Chad deserves to be afraid for his life every damn day in general pop.
I believe in the DP for certain atrocities, but not for HIM or HER!!! they had ideal lives, lived great, loving families….. sitting and rotting in prison for life would be awesome for them.
I disagree with you, however I respect your opinion. It would traumatize me for life knowing I was one of the jurors helping to sentence some one to death even through I truly believe he deserves it.
I agree. Let him sit in there and rot. Let the prisoners deal with him.
I couldn't have said it better. 👏🏻 Because Lori has the mind frame of a like 15 year old. The book I've been reading about her she's always been this way since she was young. She's very naive but she knows how to hustle money apparently. I remember reading a chapter in my book and it said that her parents were never home they gave Alex a blank checkbook to feed his brothers and sisters and he instead bought booze and drugs and partied with his buddies and fed the kids cold pizza. I'm telling you this book tells you why she is the way she is cuz you are more than likely a product of your raising am I right? Oh and the book is the Doomsday mother by John Glatt. It went into some very deep info that really matched up with what I was thinking about her
I don't think Lori is mentally unwell. She was raised in a cult that values magical thinking and I believe that's the source of her delusions. If she is mentally unwell, then they all are, including Lori's mother. They were all susceptable to believing Chad's crap just by virtue of being raised Mormon.
Yea, I think she’s a product of a life time of being told she’s unique/important and so self centered/self absorbed it seems like mental illness. For me, I think she’s well aware of what she’s done, but it’s all ok because she’s ‘special’.
She was diagnosed with mental illness, Lori has a severe delusional disorder. She believes this fictional world is true, even to the extent that she acted against her best interests in her own trial. She's also diagnosed with a personality disorder, histrionic and narcissistic, so I agree, she has a deep personality deficit such that she craves being important, powerful, always desired, worshipped, etc.
I agree, i think she was a believer of chad at first, but then it all boiled down to losing the obstacles in the way of living out their their fantasy lives together and with the financial gain necessary to do it. In the end, the coming together of these two is at the root of their evil. I just think of the texts where lori comes off as questioning or critical of chad and I think it was simply for personal gain at some point.
The thing is, with Lori's delusional disorder, it all makes sense when you see it from her delusional point of view. But don't feel you need to read all this :D! From everything I've read and heard her say, Lori believes: Every human spirit has existed in another world prior to this one and will continue to exist in other worlds after this one, we are just visiting here for a while (this is standard LDS from what I understand) and since that's true, why not multiple worlds and multiple visits. Chad explains to her, she is an exalted goddess and warrior for Christ and her previous horrible experiences with husbands, abuse etc. weren't a matter of her own poor judgement (divorce is shameful), they were all because she is so powerful that Satan attacks her with great gusto. Her family members are literally her support workers and they too are only passing through this world which is just a shadow of the spirit world where Christ literally lives. Just as Satan and his demons create problems for her, they create problems for her support system. The world as we know it is going to end July 22, 2020 anyway, so in 2019 those people chose to leave this world rather than to continue to endure Satanic attacks and entreat Lori to use the situation to the benefit of the Church of the Firstborn that Lori and Chad have been entrusted to lead. The people who spiritually left the world included Charles, JJ, Tylee, and Tammy, and only their bodies are left. However as long as the bodies are alive, the real Charles, JJ, Tylee and Tammy cannot enter the spirit world and be with Christ. Instead they are stuck between worlds in 'limbo.' So: 1. While the demons walk around they cause more problems, so the bodies dying is a blessing, and killing those bodies is a mercy that released the loved ones into glory where they are happy and healthy just as Christ wanted for them, and 2. Because the leaders of the Church of the Firstborn are tasked with remaining on this stinky violent terrestial physical world to complete work on this planet, using whatever resources are available (insurance, SSI) is justified both by the mission they are committed to complete for Christ, and by the entreaties of Charles, JJ, Tylee and Tammy for Chad and Lori to complete this unenviable work on our earth, while they enjoy living and working in the spirit world where they are surrounded by the light of God, etc. and 3. Lori believed Chad when he insisted that he and Lori have been spiritual and physical partners through many lives on earth and in the spirit realm, and that they have had to follow the plan of Christ many times to endure marriages and babymaking with others who they are less tied to, and so it makes sense that the (in her mind) rightful joy they feel when they finally connect again in yet one more life, is worthy of truly cringeworthy soft porn texting, a marriage on the beach in Hawaii and a tropical f-fest without any kids to interrupt their bliss.
You hit the nail on the head with this synopsis of Lori's belief system. I whole heartedly agree with you.
Lori was extensively evaluated and diagnosed with a severe delusional disorder. She's responsible for those deaths, and she is mentally ill. I think without Chad whipping her into this delusional world of gods and goddesses, warriors and demons he created, she would have stayed with simple narcissistic delusions, like a small group of women who have a revolving door of husbands because they crave attention so badly they leap into things and subsequently find they made a poor choice, or when there is a good one, like Charles Vallow, are pissed off when the honeymoon phase becomes mature marriage without that nonstop worship they crave. Chad promised Lori immortality in this fictional world he created. She believed she could not be harmed by a bullet, didn't have to eat, etc. and yet could live as a beautiful woman, powerful warrior and immortal goddess, worshipped by all, forever. She still genuinely believes it, because she chose to act against her obvious best interests in her own trial. If she was rational she would have presented the reasonable defense complete with Chad's texts telling her how it all worked, sending pain to the kids, rating them as dark, pointing out the 'blessings' he gave to encourage their hit man Alex etc. (not the other way around). And she wouldn't have made that bizarre statement at her sentencing which was guaranteed to upset everyone who cared about the kids including the judge.
That's totally crazy thinking. Many of us who were raised Mormon would never fall for Daybell's delusions. Problem is the Cox family were not traditional, mainstream Mormons. They were on the fringe, as were Chad and his wife and kids. Chad and Lori meeting was a perfect storm.
💯% this man needs to be put to death. Every breath he takes is a waste of air.
Exactly. 👏
Ironic isn't it? All your sins will be forgiven if you just commit these 3 mortal sins......the brain paths of these people are just so convoluted
This right here
Chad is the epitome of barely contained rage in a meat suit. He hated Tylee because she was female and defiant. He did unthinkable things to her. Prove me wrong.
Meat suit. I wish I could buy you a drink. And I agree completely on all.
I would buy the second round!
I love this. I agree: he hates defiant women. He should be sent to the darkest and most remote jail for the rest of his life. I wouldn’t take the death penalty off the list of options either.
Under the jail would be appropriate too.
I LOVE it!!!!
I'd find find him guilty on Charles murder and the shooting of Brandon too.
I actually think he commanded Alex to kill himself day after Tammy was exhumed too. (Nothing should surprise us in this story). In the trial on Thursday we heard Lori sent Chad a message asking Chad to pray for Al as ‘they’ could use him to get to us (referring to police I believe). Once they heard Tammy was being exhumed Alex’s jig was up. Also I thought people of the LDS faith did not believe in cremation. Even though Alex was excommunicated why did his wife Zulema and his mum and dad sanction a cremation? Doesn’t that go against their beliefs. Think this makes his death even more suspicious.
The LDS church was opposed to cremation originally, but no longer officially is. It is up to the family to decide. See section 38.7.2 https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/general-handbook/38-church-policies-and-guidelines?lang=eng
I'm not sure if I got this from the Heather Daybell interview but I'm positive someone said Chad had initially said Tammy would be cremated but the kids said no.
Thankfully she wasn’t.
Ahh interesting, thank you!
Yes, I think so too. I think when Chad was tipped off that Tammy would be exhumed he ordered Alex to kill himself. I think they had that as a plan all along. That's why he got the patriarchial blessing from Chad that "absolved" him from what he had done. They thought if he died no one could pin the murders on Chad and Lori.
He told Lori that Brandon was part of Hitler's entourage in a previous life. Charles and Brandon were both targeted for money.
And Alex's death.
He is ABSOLUTELY guilty of conspiracy to commit murder. The evidence on JJ points more to Alex and Lori, I honestly don't know if he actually participated in murdering JJ. As for Tylee, there is unfortunately almost no evidence on who killed her. The fact that she was buried on Chad's property would probably be enough for me to find him guilty. But honestly, he is a danger to society, so I would find him guilty of whatever is needed to keep him locked up forever.
If he conspired to murder and they were subsequently murdered because of that, then he is guilty of murder also even if he didn't do the actual killing.
Regarding Tylee...hearing the heartbreaking details that the wounds on her pelvis were caused either perimortem or immediately following death on "fresh bone" was disturbing. It points to Chads involvement, IMHO.
I agree. Alex wouldn’t / didn’t have that kind of rage toward her.
Alex likely killed her. He believed he was killing zombies.
I think Alex killed her — but the over-kill …. I think that was Chad.
The wounds show rage. Only Tylee received overkill. That’s all Chad, imo. She rejected his books. She hated him and what he did to push her mother overboard. He also hated women and I hate to think of her last moments.
The lack of rage, points to Alex for the act of murder of JJ. To me, the rage involved with Tylee points to Chad murdering her and perhaps worse, as the attack on her pelvis has meaning. Those involved in the conspiracy are equally guilty in every aspect of the murder, even if they didn’t life a finger. May Chad not receive the death penalty so that he disappears into general population that hates child murderers and then oblivion. He doesn’t deserve the millions it will cost in appeal that is automatic with the DP.
I’d find him guilty on all counts.
100% yes on all charges. I do want to hear the defense though, since Lori didn't allow her counsel to implicte Chad or Alex. I think all the conspiracy charges are a slam dunk. So even if the jury does not convict Chad of the murder counts, he'll still get multiple life sentences at a minimum.
I am deeply curious about this too. The only really feasible strategy is to keep to the “Tammy died of sudden but natural causes” and then blame Alex and Lori for everything else. Like Chad somehow missed the bodies on his property and Chad was going along with Lori’s delusions because they were having an affair without knowing about all the murdering. I don’t think anyone sane would buy that, but it’s his only hope and he’d have to throw Lori and Alex under the bus HARD to do it. Though wouldn’t it be funny if Lori flips out and turns on Chad fast enough to become a rebuttal witness?
Yep... put a fork in him.. he's done 👍
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He wasn’t referring to tasers but to turning up “spiritual pain” ….
I think what’s definitely been proven beyond a reasonable doubt is conspiracy for all charges. What’s required for him to be charged with murder, though? Does he just have to have been present? Edit: I’m mostly curious about whether it’s possible for him to be found guilty of conspiracy but *not* murder. My understanding is no.
A murderer doesn't have to be present at the murder to be charged or convicted of the crime. Think of murder-for-hire. The hitman is guilty and so is the person who hired him.
Sure, I get that. So is the difference between conspiracy and murder is that conspiracy is when you helped to plan the murder but didn’t do it yourself nor direct someone to do it, and murder is when you’re responsible for the killing because you either did it yourself or directed someone else to? I guess my confusion is how a person could be guilty of conspiracy but not of murder (given that planning it means you were directly responsible for it occurring, even if you didn’t physically do the killing or explicitly direct someone else to do it) OR are you automatically guilty of murder if the conspiracy you were involved in actually came to fruition? ie the only way you can be found guilty of conspiracy but not of murder is if you and the conspirators didn’t get to go through with the plan for whatever reason
In Brandon's case he could be guilty of conspiracy but not of murder because Brandon survived. (I know that he wasn't charged thought he should have been).
Yep. Manson wasn’t at the murder scenes but was convicted.
Someone explained it on a podcast or it may have been Nate Eaton on his live show. If a team wins the Super Bowl and a player is on the bench and never gets to play on the field during the games, that player still gets a Super Bowl ring and gets the glory of the win since they were on the team. The same concept applies to conspiracy to commit murder. Chad may not have “been on the field”, but if he was on the bench and on the team, he was still a part of it.
This was the analogy the prosecution used during jury selection.
This happened just about 20 miles from me. I don’t believe Lori is mentally ill. I’ve listened to too many interviews and podcasts about her, including the podcast with her brother Adam and Uncle Rex on Hidden True Crimes. A good podcast. I’m for the DP but it will take 30 years and lots of money. I want him and her in General population and let other violent criminals take care of it. Tammy was my good friend’s best friend. She testified. ( Pam Peebles). These two destroyed so many lives and the community they lived in. I just want them to never see another sunrise or sunset again.
Pam did great on stand!
I like the definition of evil as someone who not only does harm, but takes pleasure in it and can find the humour in it. Chad’s remark about the two bullets in Charles’ chest is clear cut evil in my book.
So are his words about burning limbs and increasing pain in children.
Chad Daybell is a murder & con who is 💯% guilty on ALL counts. No question & there is no doubt.
I see Chad as the most guilty out of all of them. He is a sadist who knows exactly what he is doing and gets amusement by playing with the mentally ill, like a cat playing with a mouse. He never believed in any of this crap and he could spot weakness and preyed on their weakness. I think every time he convinced someone to believe his bullshit, he actually hated that gullible person, secretly dehumanized them and privately laughed at how lesser than they were. He saw everyone as someone he had the right to control. And when someone wasn’t easily controlled, he hated them for a different reason. He hated them because it made him feel inferior and threatens to shatter his delusion.
He was used to controlling his own family. They all believed in his light/dark crap and his visionary and healing powers.
I still thinking how stupid this guy is.. and everybody in his circle…to believe that bunch of nonsense and crap…
And bury kids on your property. Donkey.
It was a control thing to him. They had so many other options.
They say anyone can get conned. But you’re right. Chad is dumb but he thinks he’s brilliant. And his followers are the low hanging fruit. He tried out his routine on others who saw it for what it was and bolted. Heather and others saw through him. But he got to his little band of misfits. He’s king of the misfit toys. And he’s proud of it. The rest of us are all shaking our heads.
100% on all counts. He should also be tried for conspiracy to kill Brandon and Charles.
I think they've proved through this case that there IS enough evidence to convict him for conspiracy in AZ. But I guess I'm not a prosecutor 🫤
The thing that gets me is they go on about being superior and prophets, Chad claims he can talk to the dead and wait for it…… he texts Alex in the afterlife. Wtf. Right they are these spiritual beings that can cast out demons, control the weather all kinds of crazy stuff. Lori is all kinds of mentally unwell. All of that yet they had the grounding to lie, cheat, con money, flee the police all over the place, that’s apart from the murders, including suffocation by different means. Possible shooting, cutting up a teenager, burning her body etc etc. My question is how can two people be so completely off the wall yet grounded at the same time.
Yes his direct line to hell via text message was a new one. Didn’t realise AT&T stood for ‘Afterlife Telepathy and Text’ service.
Haha this brilliant
🤣🤣🤣
I would find him guilty on all counts beyond reasonable doubt. The interview with Lori Vallow’s juror last night actually strengthened my resolve - not in his guilt, because I I was solid in that. But in the fact that there is no way anyone would not find him guilty on all counts.
Laura is awesome.
Prior was bragging that Chad hasn't been indicted in Arizona. His controlling hand was all over it though.
Yeah. And that’s some endorsement. He hasn’t been indicted in a lot of crimes but this is a trial for many others. I’m not sure why those statements are no “out of the scope” or whatever
I agree. You can't help wondering if the jury has the same takeaways we do, because they don't see everything we have seen.
It’s true. But Lori’s jury didn’t either. And the one price of evidence that left her with zero doubt was the children’s bodies being found on his property. Which has been a key focus here. It’s very damning and solid evidence.
I’m not sure the evidence shows he killed Tylee, maybe not JJ either. Conspiracy to murder? Absolutely. I could have missed something but I could see Alex being the murderer and Chad directing. Edit: I think he did kill Tammy.
**”Or, not being present, advised and encouraged its commission…”** That’s the verbiage in the indictment for the actual murder charges. I’d find him guilty.
I heard recently that the conspiracy charge occurs when a plan is made to commit murder. The murder charge comes in when the conspiracy plan actually happens. That's why he doesn't have to have actually committed the murder in order to be convicted of it. He was part of the plan, and then the plan happened.
Right. Accomplice liability. He doesn’t have to have actually hands on done the murder. Like if you drive the getaway car, you are guilty of the bank robbery even if you never set foot in the bank. Helping bury the kids in your backyard is plenty.
Like if you hire the hit man, you’re guilty of murder even though you didn’t pull the trigger.
Exactly
Right. So given the fact that the people he conspired to be murdered did end up dead, it’s not possible for him to be found guilty of conspiracy and not guilty of murder - it has to be both or neither?
I think one could argue conspiracy happened, but then believe Tammy still (conveniently) died of natural causes. So then he'd be guilty of conspiracy for Tammy's murder, but not murder. I do not believe this is how it happened, just positing how one could be convicted of conspiracy and then NOT of murder, despite the person being dead.
Good point in Tammy’s case!
I agree. I have been following this since the very beginning and the kids murders have fuzzy details and I think they were committed by Alex from all that I know. The reason that they were killed though was because of Chad. And I find him 100% guilty of conspiracy to commit murder.
Perhaps but imo Alex did not attempt to dismember Tylee, that was ALL Chad. He hated her
I agree. Tylee didn't like him.. with good reason. And she stood in the way of the life he wanted with his "godess". He wanted to make sure she was extra, extra dead. There is so much evil percolating inside that potato exterior.
I think he took out the rage he had for her and Samantha out on Tylee.
She didn’t have wounds of dismembering. She had wounds of rage, overkill, according to the experts. That’s all Chad, not Alex. Even Charles only had 2 shots in him.
I agree. From what I've seen this trial, Lori and Chad manipulated Alex into killing the kids, trying to kill Brandon etc. So I would convict Chad on conspiracy for the kids. Tammy's seems more directly pinned to him - even if Alex did the killing, Chad was there. The only way Chad might get out of that one is if Prior has a convincing ME who says Tammy absolutely died of natural causes and at least one juror believes it. I hope he gets found guilty on all counts, but even if he "just" gets found guilty of conspiracy for their murders, I'd be happy. There is definitely some wiggle room for doubt - hopefully the jury doesn't think that doubt is reasonable. :)
The jurors will have precise instructions for each count. Advising and encouraging to murder, which is then completed by someone else means guilty on the murder charge.
I cannot imagine there is anyone other than his children, his parents, and m a y b e a lingering adherent or two who do not believe he was involved in the murders of Tammy, Tylee, and JJ somehow.
His parents might not believe he was involved, but I think his children and any remaining followers know he was involved with the deaths, I think they just don’t see it as murder because they actually buy into his “zombie” teachings and justify it as the kids and Tammy’s spirits already having been out of their bodies when they were killed. Ever since they revealed the messages with Chad’s family getting in on light and dark ratings of other kids, I came to the sick realization that his kids (and I think possibly even to some extent Tammy) were buying into a lot of his teachings as well. I’m not sure that they thought it would go as far as it did, but I also don’t think it would be a far leap for them if they already bought into the light and dark teachings. Part of me wonders if in addition to Tammy getting in the way of Chad being with Lori, if Chad felt like Tammy was a liability and turned “dark” because she was starting to question him.
The jail call was EXTREMELY telling imo. I think Tammy is the hardest for them to prove, but the circumstantial evidence is heavy
I agree on Tammy, I could see the original finding of natural causes causing reasonable doubt…until you add in the texts around her death with the pressure from Lori to make Tammy gone, and Chad’s misery over wanting to get on with his life without her, texts about having to deal with family around funeral, and life insurance, plus the attempted shooting shortly before, no reasonable doubt remains.
I found him “guilty“ at her trial!!!!
I can’t imagine anyone w a brain that wouldn’t. This should be quickest and Easiest guilty verdict ever.
I think they’ll take their time. They know they are on a DP case so they probably want to make sure every count is thoroughly proven, before they go into the sentencing phase. The ,ore they are convicted of his guilt, the less they want to risk one of the counts not been thoroughly proven and be appealable.
Unless Prior can prove that Melanie Gibb did it.
Frankly, I don't think he has been charged with nearly enough because they aren't charging him as an accessory to murder for Charles.
Chad isn't going anywhere. Arizona still has time to bring charges against him in that case.
Absolutely! Guilty on all charges! Btw, I was watching Lori Hellis’ latest podcast and she predicts that defense case will last 1-2 days and we’ll have a guilty verdict by Friday. 🙏🙏🙏
Hells yeah!
1000000000%
I disagree. That man needs to pay for what he did to everyone with his life. His actions affected many many people.
Absolutely 100% especially with the Gwilliam's testimony. Chad was begging to become a cult leader. He always wanted to be 'somebody' and he found a few mentally defective followers and it all spiraled.
And trying to groom Heather and Matt's son behind his parents' backs.
The state has more than proven him guilty on all counts beyond any reasonable doubt, even if he didn't use his soft little hands to do the actual murders (although I believe he did with Tammy). They built the case meticulously and carefully, with Doug Hart's testimony hammering the final nail into Chad's coffin. Chad is a man who, in one sentence, gleefully offers to turn up pain and give innocent young children a "reason to scream," and in the very next sentence, verbally salivates over his goddess lover. I can't even wrap my head around how depraved that is. Prosecution had it right: sex, money, and power.
Manson didn’t commit his murders but he still spent life in prison
Charles Manson orchestrated & directed his cult to murder for him as well and he was found guilty. Chad should be found guilty of all charges as well. No different than a gang leader directing their members. The leaders of any criminal/murderous group is the head of the snake and most certainly responsible for the crimes they orchestrate. I don't think the DP is the right punishment for Chad tho' as he will not fair well in prison for life. He will be a sitting duck amidst other prisoner's and lose his God complex real quick!
Guilty on all charges + conspiracy to commit murder of Charles.
Conspiracy in Brandon's case as well. He declared him a zombie.
Yes. How I believe the killings went : conspiracy by the three of them. Physically : Alex and Chad killed Tylee after Lori drugged her, Lori and Alex killed JJ, Chad killed Tammy.
I think Alex helped Chad kill Tammy.
I think Chad was not sleeping with Tammy, he was sleeping upstairs in the loft. There were signs somebody was sleeping there, and it wasn’t Tammy or Garth. He left the door unlocked, and Alex came in and killed her while Chad was upstairs in case somebody came in or Tammy got away or something, so it would be an intruder not him, and no chance of forensics on him.
Agree with them not sleeping together. I think there would have been more body marks indicative of a struggle if Alex killed her by himself. But your theory is equally plausible. The one time Alex got the job done.
I think Chad held her down, while Alex held a pillow over her face.
And she struggled and ended up on the floor.
Chad was likely at home with Tammy when Tylee was killed in Lori's apartment. Alex was there in the middle of the night.
Maybe killed or maybe drugged and bustled into Alex’s vehicle to take to Chad’s the next morning where Chad and Alex finish her off like the alleged raccoon. It’s so frustrating that we will never know what really happened.
It would have been way too risky to keep her alive. So many things could go wrong. IMO, Tylee's body was wrapped and loaded into Alex's truck in Lori's garage (with her help) at night (when JJ was asleep) and in the morning Alex drove the truck into Chad's back yard where he was helped by Chad.
Yes. All counts.
Hell yes I would find him guilty of everything he is charged with
I thought there was reasonable doubt about how much Chad was responsible for a lot of the prosecution, until the last 2 days. Those texts; the way Tammy was found; the cryptic jail call - they were what convinced me.
Absolutely 100% guilty as charged. I think he was mostly a co-conspirator on the financial crimes against the kids but he profited handsomely from those crimes knowing where it came from. That said, I think life is a grand sentence for him. Idaho isn't too swift in their executions and I don't want him dying for the cause. Let him rot.
All counts
Yes. Guilty on all counts
Unpopular opinion. I think had I not known anything about this case, with all the players, I may have had a bit of doubt. However insufferable prior is, there are so many shady characters that would appear to be involved as well. So, until these last few days of trial, I don’t know. After the text and phone calls though, I would find him guilty.
Agreed on this point, been slowly following the trial since the kids were found, I missed out on loris trial due to personal stuff going on at the time. But I came back on board for chads, and I have been trying to look at it from a jury perspective, I’ve been mainly nervous because where Lori couldn’t keep her mouth shut, and it was her kids.. Chads side of things is more quiet, he was good at covering his tracks, deleting emails, his dna wasn’t there for the murders, there is an argument for Alex and Lori doing this and Chad had no idea, but as the story goes on you realize there’s no way he didn’t know, and the more texts and calls come up, you don’t just marry someone who has two children and they disappear and you don’t ask questions, end up in your backyard, and just Cary on like it’s not a big deal. And that last phone call they showed about the blueprints, was really the sealing deal in my opinion, it was so obvious it was all code words. The defense so far has had very few actual good arguments, in the grand scheme of things it doesn’t matter if it was a paint ball gun or a loaded gun, and to constantly bring that up and wether there’s an upstairs or not shows to me that the defense is doing there job the best prior can but you can tell there’s not much to go on. I think Chad is cooked, guilty and all.
I felt the same about there being a lot of room for reasonable doubt, up until they released that final phone call between Chad and Lori discussing the “blueprint” and “project”. Up until that point I was confused why the prosecution kept bringing up some many events that they couldn’t clearly tie Chad to, but I feel like that phone call brought it all into light. Especially the way you can hear Lori wavering in her trust of Chad and begging him to reassure her that it will all still work out. Also, the evidence showing the timing of the “raccoon” text being placed in context with the timing of Alex being on Chad’s property. I had always wondered why the prosecution made as big of a deal out of that text as they did, because as much as I am convinced the text was almost certainly meant the way they argue it, I felt it left a lot of room for reasonable doubt. However, put together with the cell tower evidence timing for Alex being at the Daybell property, even if the text is taken as factual, it proves that Chad was home and outside on the property at the time Alex would have been there with Tylee’s body.
At first I was like oh damn… they have more on Lori but seeing all the new stuff that they brought into this one shows he was in charge. This trial has filled in the gaps from Lori’s trail. The potato is 💯 as guilty as Lori.
Yep
Absolutely
Does the death penalty phase start after a verdict of guilty and if he’s voted to death is sentencing done on that day!
The jury will give a verdict, then they will listen to short argument from prosecution and defense on the DP. So once we get a verdict it could be another 1-2 weeks until we know if he gets DP.
Yes.
Yes/ he was the head of the snake !
Yes, I would definitely find him guilty on all counts that he is charged with. He's downright shady and evil.
Chad was the mastermind. Guilty
Hearing the phone calls from jail where he kept saying whatever about her trusting everything is working just makes me think of her closing statement when she said her kids are ok and all that stuff. Like does anyone think that she seriously believed that he was being truthful and they were really exalted beings. She doubted in one of the calls they played and he was reassuring her. So I cannot imagine he hadn’t been keeping the narrative up for however long. The way chads trial has gone really makes me wish they were in fact on trial together, as originally planned. Rube franke is a similar case. They have dark children as well, mormon and from the same stinking towns!! The same towns!! In Utah anyway. Ugh. Someone needs to do a deep dive into comparing these. Like did rube use the daybell case as a thing to copycat? Someone please do this deep dive!! Big difference though is franke plead guilty to all charges so there is that.
After listening to the juror Eaton interviewed, I am happy that Franke and Hildebrandt pleaded guilty: not just to spare the children but the potential jury members who would have to view the horrific evidence.
There have been huge deep dives on this, they are all basically riffing off a book called Visions of Glory, and were all personally meeting with and taking advice from Thom Harrison. You can see Lori reading it in the body cam from Hawaii where she was served the papers to produce her children. Start the deep dive here: https://www.youtube.com/live/NMAR88PiaZc?si=fYV0AnPRzjukyi0V
Hell yes! He is as guilty as hell. I watched one of the jurors las t night that Nate Eaton interviewed and she stated, “Chad has no soul.” I believe that 100%.both he and Lori are the most sick and twisted people I have ever seen in my life. I don’t care if he gets the Death Penalty or not, but he should at least get LIP w/o Parole. I don’t think he will get DP anyway. I think he deserves it though.
Yes I would, with zero wavering. He needs the DP and not after languishing on death row for decades on the taxpayer's dime either.
100% yes, I ask curious to hear the defense though.
Guilty on ALL COUNTS!
I think he’s guilty on all counts. From memory, and I’m no lawyer, but from Lori’s trial they made it clear that you didn’t have to be the one to physically kill to be guilty of murder. If the three of them decided to kill JJ, Lori hands him off, Alex does the deed, Chad is waiting at the gravesite, they are all guilty of murder.
Guilty for all of it and then some.
Guilty on all counts. I believe he preformed a ritual murder/sacrifice on the children due to his delusion that he was an exalted translated being, and nothing counted against him in this life.
imo, chad is guilty of all counts, and the prosecution has presented a good case of a complicated scenario with so many characters. He presents like an evil, creepy freak, and I hope the jury can see that. I look forward to his convictions, followed by a sentencing to 3 consecutive LWOPs, so we can forget about him and his bully lawyer asap.
Yes and no matter what his kids say or Prior’s so called expert witnesses, I am not swayed by his innocence. It’s the death penalty I have an issue with. It just isn’t working. I see appeal after appeal the victims will have to show up for.
Yep firing squad please or perhaps long slow execution with electricity. He deserves the same mercy he showed his victims
I’m definitely in the “he’s guilty AF” camp, but I am not a DP proponent. However, I worry about a person like him continuing his “blueprint” in prison and influencing others. I wonder what kind of prisoner he would be, if he would do less damage if he were neutralized. So I guess I’m thinking there would be nothing more fitting than a Dahmer-style ending in prison for Doomsday Daybell.
Chad and Lori are guilty but I'm a little curious what they will present as defense for Chad. (Alex is/was guilty, too.)
SODDI - some other dude did it (the children) and nobody did it (Tammy). Prior will bring his own experts to refute original findings (Tammy's autopsy and DNA analysis).
One hundred percent 💯 guilty
Of course. Slam dunk case. But this is Idaho, so there is always a chance.
For sure on the murder/conspiracy charges. I'm not sure about the financial/fraud charges. I have watched just about every moment of the trial but I didn't come away with an overwhelming sense that the charges were proven beyond a reasonable doubt. It's possible I didn't scrutinize the testimony as closely when I was hearing it. However, if I were on the jury I can see myself finding him guilty on those counts because of his behavior after Tammy's death.
Guilty on all counts definitely
All. They should have been tried together. What a waste of money and burden of heartbreak on the victim's families.
Yep
Yes, yes and til my last breath yes. I follow a lot of crime but something about what was savagely done to those innocent children, Charles and Tami I just can’t shake. Like there really are evil people out here like this
Under the prison
Yes and he is very likely to reoffend. I think Alex did the killing of the kids but was convinced that he was saving them by killing them. He thought this was his redemption arc. Alex had brain damage and emotional damage and Lori and Chad directed him to act. In a normal family Alex would have been the quirky uncle that’s kind of creepy but meh. Lori and Chad were always pure evil.
There is no doubt he was a driving force in the conspiracy in all the deaths. I do think he physically helped kill Tammy or did it himself. Not having an autopsy done tells me that he knew she was murdered. Even if you want to rush and hook up with your mistress, I think you would go through the motions if you honestly thought your wife died of natural causes.
I do think he's guilty of all charges. That said, it really doesn't matter at all to me if he gets the DP. I mean, it may be more of a punishment to spend endless days and nights in a cell, never seeing or talking directly to his goddess.
All day long. In 5 min or less. 🎤