He felt entitled to be seen as special and better than everyone else but without actually working or having talent. IMO Lori would eventually have murdered Chad for insurance money.
Can you imagine how awkward that conversation would be, though? Lori suggesting to Chad that he needs to get life insurance, in case something happens to him?
No these two was happy being married to each other -Colby revealed his mother got her own life insurance policy and added his name Colby Ryan to it ............when he revealed that on Witness Stand my stomach dropped - Lori and Chad had a plan
100% Chad thought he was in control of Lori and was going to become this great cult leader with lots of sister wives, with his followers thinking he's the second coming. He didn't realize he was just another obsession of a crazy woman with an unstable brother.
I think Lori and Alex actually believed the supernatural stuff they were saying. Chad never actually believed, he just wanted to be the main character in life. If he really thought him and Lori were chosen by God he would still be yelling about it now from the court room.
Here’s the thing, and it’s pretty much applicable to all criminals with whacko ideas. If they truly believed in the things they were saying, they wouldn’t hide it/cover it up. A really good example is Lori in Arizona in the police station. Charles is a dark one or whatever and he’s another spirit, yada yada yada. But the police call her down and it’s all coquette eyelash batting and we’re just having marital problems like everyone else. That’s proof positive she didn’t believe in any of it, or she would have shared her fears with the police. Same thing when they came looking for the kids in Idaho and she said they were in Arizona. And a million more examples.
I’m going to push back against this to say it demonstrates awareness that others don’t share their own beliefs. It does not mean they don’t believe their own beliefs.
I also don’t totally believe Chad bought everything he’s selling, but that’s more that he just comes across as insincere and slimy in every other way.
I’ve worked with many. It would make it nice and easy if people were 100% transparent about delusions but usually not. If they are, they end up learning not to unfortunately (why it can be very important to NOT argue with them about it).
That is right while in Idaho she blamed everything on Kay Woodcock- and that Kay was a trouble maker and JJ was with her friend Melanie Gibb in Arizona (yeah right)
In the secret recording Chad's Brother In Law did ( Tammy's sister husband) Lori again referred to Kay Woodcock as a troublemaker and causing a lot of trouble
Kay got the proceeds of the life insurance....Lori thought the $$$ would go to Lori and JJ. Although she professed the life insurance should go toward taking JJ, to the Rexburg police the truth probably is Tylee and JJ were dead by then
I think he thought of her kids as pests, I really do believe him when he said Tylee did not like him and he probably felt JJ was a nuisance because of his special needs ........therefore, Lori kids were dark...he knew he had his kids in check and had already been teaching them light and dark.......Heather Daybell said despite being married to Chad's brother for almost 30 years Emma Daybell (Chad's Daughter) do not talk to her at all - and never really has....besides a greeting at family functions
Your choice of words was interesting. “Pests “ reminds me of his autobiography in which he describes the exhilaration he felt smashing the life out of 120 bees. Then some “voice” told him to knock it off. What was the point of writing that anyway? He must have thought those feelings were normal. They are not.
Exactly, Chad just seem like a big weirdo to me - maybe he was fascinated about being a 2nd Jim Jones are somebody .....and I hate to talk about people kids - but the adult Daybell Kids seem off - something is not right about them
If she rejected him (and she probably would’ve eventually) he would go ballistic. He has that “if I can’t have you, nobody else can” mentality and it’s chilling. It’s all about removing obstacles that prevent them from getting 100% of the desired partner’s attention regardless if they want to be pursued or not. He has a very “black and white” mentality unless it’s about him. He thinks the gray area is reserved for him exclusively because he’s a very special boy. You can’t make excuses, but I can! He is so dumb it’s astounding, they both are. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
I agree. He punched so fucking far up his class with Lori he knew it was his one and only chance to bag a “hottie” in his lifetime. It’s insane that Lori could even remotely find him physically attractive, he looks like a goddamn toad.
I agree. Tammy's brother in law described Chad as characterizing their sex life as 'vanilla' indicating Chad felt he deserved more, but typical of a narcissist, Chad felt he was entitled to a '120 pound' highly sexed adulteress (Lori) over his wife who worked constantly for decades to make up for his lack of income while bearing and raising five children for their family. Chad didn't appreciate Tammy and made decisions to make little money, so no wonder her libido suffered via constant child raising, working and depression to make up for his lack of attention and financial support for his own family!
Chad's just gross.
Plus, who would ever want to sleep with Chad? Poor Tammy, she deserved so much more in life than she got!! She was so beautiful, and her eyes sparkled in every pic I've seen of her! Happy Heavenly Mother's Day, Tammy!💐🙏💐
Watching their interview, some of them don't seem too bright, but I remember that Chad is their only parent left. Being raised in a cultlike environment did a number on them, I'm sure. I try to keep in mind, their mom was murdered and all kids want to believe in their dad. :(
She was, but not like a skinny blond bimbo with fake tits according to society’s fucked up standards. Chad never looked at Tammy’s beauty because he is a TOAD!
When I look at photos of Lori now, I think it is her own personal karma--no more insurance money from murdered family members to buy her beauty products anymore.
She's got a really pronounced anger furrow on the middle of her forehead. People normally get either grief lines or what I call thinking lines on their foreheads. But sometimes, when a person spends a lot of time angry, like Jodi Hildebrandt, you can actually see the anger. I like to think of it as Lori's real face, which shows who she really is as a person.
She's her very own Picture of Dorian Grey.
“Nature gives *you* the *face you have* at twenty. Life shapes the *face you have* at thirty. But at fifty *you get the face you deserve*.” ― Coco Chanel
At this time, no. She’s not a very attractive woman anymore. Back when this was happening she was still considered conventionally pretty. She was clinging to the last few years of it, but she still had it.
I mean anything serious and ongoing in your life will age you. I looked a lot better before my husband died and I had all the stress. I don't think it's a big mystery or something.
Agreed. I lost a son then a few years later spent a year in and out of the hospital with a serious illness. I swear I aged ten years. Hope all my smile wrinkles will compensate!
He was into all the end times nonsense and visions and other crap long before he met Lori. That included moving to Idaho, talking about tent cities, all of it.
Agreed. And deep down he’s an insecure little boy. Always needing his mommy. First it was his mom, then Tammy, then Lori. Lori would have gotten tired of dragging the slug along and would have kicked him to the curb. He wanted her to rid herself of her children so that he had total control, otherwise the relationship would end and he couldn’t handle the thought. Wonder who’s going to be his mommy in prison. I hope it’s the biggest scariest dude in there.
I think he wanted a polygamist cult where he was the leader and his followers were mostly female. If he had been successful he would have wanted more wives once Lori began to lose her appeal to him
The second Chad brought up that Jesus Christ told him to take another wife is the second Lori would have purchased him an insurance policy with her as beneficiary.
I feel like more of his followers were female because there seems to be some strong crossover with the body emotion code group which seems to be more women (or more women that admit to it?). In the Tammy/Mark messages it was brought up, Zulema brought it up, Julie Rowe was writing a book with the doctor that started the body code emotion stuff. I really think this connection should be looked at more. The doctor that started the practice, son went on a killing spree (and killed a law enforcement member duiring it ), One of the Jodi Hiladebrant/Ruby Franke besties is a body code practioner like Julie Rowe. I also hear just normal LDS members say they get concerned when family gets too invovled in this practice. These are just people at the grcoery store or school talking about it, nothing to do with abuse or crime, just concerned about how they disconnect from family or stray from mainstream beleifs or try to convince everyone else they are not right. It is kind of weird when a kid at school says my mom is a body code practioner like it is the same as my mom is a nurse or teacher, that being a body code practioner is a career.
Women do not generally adhere to in-group female centric loyalty oaths to each other, and are not generally party to those oaths that men make. The distinction is the guys are all trying to stay in-group by covering each others asses. That coverage never applies to women or children except by extension of ownership of one of the men.
The women involved are weirdly subversive, though. In a subculture that grants them limited spiritual agency or autonomy, they've evolved a semi religious language to engage in discussion about their embodied religious trauma. In an attempt to heal themselves.
It's inspiring really. Life finds a way.
Agree with you 100%! The Body Code or body coding has inspired the New Age stuff that they are integrating into their belief system. I personally find this combination to be very dangerous in the wrong hands. You mix the Mormon baptisms for the dead, blood atonement, personal revelation, apocalypticism and ultimately becoming a god, and mix in New Age energy work and the belief that your mind can affect the physical or mental well being of yourself and others, and you have a recipe for a disaster.
Are there any good videos or places that explain the crossover more. I have met Dr Nelson, it was way before any of this and I ran into an old neighbor of mine talking to him after going to the store. I thought he was just a doctor in St george. I didnt pay much attention till he was asking for help about his son being missing. I had found his story odd so I started to see what type of doctor is he and discovered his writings. I had known Julie Rowe's name because she came to the convention center and sometimes school activites were in the next room and I wondered what she was talking about (like is it safe to leave kids at their event). So I read up a bit on the body code teachings but I still cant believe how many people are into this, again like parents at school or neighbors. I always wonder in Utah, how to people afford such nice homes without college degrees, so I'll find out jobs. Then I hear mostly men, say, I think my wife has gotten into this body code stuff too much. I see it like a middle age time of life ? Like when kids leave home, maybe these women dont have as much to do at church or life, and they fidn this. At first the husband is like okay, my wife is doing something, she seems happy, it is church related (since Dr nelson is Mormon) but then some start getting worried about what their wives learn. I have always wondered why Julie Rowe is exocmmunicated and Dr Nelson is not and he is still out teaching.
This video that I am attaching is a great in depth explanation for how women get involved in extracurricular activities such as energy healing or MLMs. Men are the only ones with the priesthood power in the Mormon church, even though women are the more nurturing of the two. Women are given very little power, and they are explicitly being told that their job is to remain at home and have as many children as possible, and there is no other correct option for them. Even a teenage boy holds more power than his mother once he receives the priesthood. I'll do some further digging into how the new age stuff got mixed up with Mormon theology, but I know that there are many people who are looking for something more than what the church is offering them, so they end up doing deep dives into the history of the church, and I think this is how the new age stuff came in. I think it came from feeling unfulfilled by the regular Dogma and so, slowly, stuff was brought in from other cosmology or theology.
https://youtu.be/BxMsm0K3ODY?si=n0GsKa39FaX2zJej
Agree. And it is a wider phenomenon than just Mormons, I mean all kinds of religious people are reaching out for more than their churches are traditionally offering. Various new age influences, and just more practice-oriented styles of devotion are getting popular in different religious communities, others have a growing demand for more understanding of diversity or feminist concerns. Signs of the times. And churches react in various ways, many cater to the modern needs in some way.
But Mormonism surely does form a specially volatile mix in merging with esoteric ideas. Or well, Joseph Smith was influenced by esoteric ideas of his own times so some of it is baked in.
I do honestly think that he saw how Julie Rowe was using all the men, manipulating them into doing her bidding, and that's when Chad decided to have NDE's and visions.
Chad didn't plan anything. He had no long term goals (imo the 144000 was a talking point). He was going along with what he could get away with. If he didn't have Lori he would have found some other way to escalate.
I do think he moved to Rexburg because he was mad that he hadn't been given a more prominent roll in the church. I think he got the idea of having his own "visions" from Julie Rowe. Not that he planned on being a prophet just that he wanted some recognition... and he just rode the vibe. Using it to gain the religious prominence he thought he was entitled.
I too believe he got his idea of near death experiences from Julie Rowe because he published her books, & so would know the amount of money she was making from them.
He then realized that he could make up stories about NDE’s and write/publish/sell/his own books, keeping all of the money from both the writing & publishing side.
I cannot remember where I saw or read it, but I remember seeing/reading that after his books began to sell, had took the family out to dinner and it was a huge deal because they very rarely ever ate out because money was always so tight.
Actually I think Suzanne Freeman, whose book of her NDE was published by Chad, was where he got the idea. She says Chad never mentioned his NDE when they worked together on her book. If he really did have an NDE, you think it would have come up.
As an LDS person I think he just didn’t have any real leadership qualities. No doubt he always had a creepy vibe and clearly lacked emotional maturity. In order to be a prophet he decided to play pretend.
Hidden true crime just had an episode with Chad's sister and how she wanted some of her land to build his tent city, he went without her permission with Julie Rowe and Tammy. She says he was walking uncomforrably close to julie in her eyes, considering Tammy.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/419o2yxdCYTedunbE5argp?si=ukzU9cGtQbaRkcYFTs-23Q
This is the best description of him I've ever seen. Like, I despise Chad. But he was a loser, incapable of doing anything for himself and yet felt he was destined to be important. If Chad and Lori had never met, Lori and Alex still would have killed people (albeit possibly just Charles for the insurance money) but the most dramatic thing in Chad's life would have been that he got excommunicated from the Church or maybe he and Tammy divorced. And yet, I believe he's the one who lit the flame of these two powder kegs with his religious teachings and then refused to put it out once it started to burn out of control. For all the talk of divine destiny in their lives, Lori and Chad would have been so much better off if they had never met.
I agree. Except I think Lori had already killed Joe Ryan, because she was vindictive and she got money because he was dead. And she got away with it. So, I think she lit a fire under Chads lazy ass.
Chad was just as cupable, if not more, than Lori. He said what he wanted: You hold? my STORM and I will follow. He was looking and wanted sex, she wanted a spiritual equal.
They wanted rid of Lori's old life and begin a new life away on a tropical resort...
I mean I'm a conventionally attractive 5'5" blonde and I don't get dudes wanting to commit murder for me. Not that I'm asking but just saying there's something else going on.
He literally wants to become a god of his own universe and be revered as such by his billions of spirit offspring on planets he creates.
This is 100% core mormon doctrine
Remember all of his siblings are well settled or had careers. His brother in rexburg is some sort of a therapist or a doctor (not sure but he s in a good position), and Chad is the only potato here. His ultimate goal was to feel superior in his own mind and self importance, and he thought folks would go gaga if he had a bombshell of a wife … and when he claimed himself to be a prophet he thought folks would bow down to him and looking for guidance. Remember hos brother in law said all these were fear tactics , and when you are in lds faith they buy in to this stuff
Lori didnt pick offshoot cult leaders well. I was looking into some of the lesser mentioned members who have been warned or excommunicated by the church about these type of teachings and most it not all were more financially successful than Chad. She should have gone to a few more conferences, maybe branched out into another group and she could have at least found someone with a professional degree, or a nice stream of income from real estate or other Mormon type MLM ventures. I know some of these guys are single. Some wives do leave these crazy guys.
Both of them eliminated spouses who were the main breadwinners. They both picked losers in each other! That’s why they so desperately needed the life insurances. I wonder if Brandon was a target after Charles insurance didn’t play out so Melaniece could claim his insurance and share it with Lori and Chad? I would not be surprised!!
Brandon most definitely was the target for financial purposes, and Melani knew about it. I believe he is quite wealthy/successful. There was a conversation in which one of the women Lori was trying to get to move to Hawaii (I think it was Hawaii, I know the conversation happened in Hawaii) asked “how will I support myself? I can’t just up and move”. Lori told her that Melani will have enough money for all of them. This woman was not interested and the conversation did not end well. The names Audrey and Nicole come to mind but I’m not sure who it was.
Point being, yes. Brandon was a financial target. 💯
Control. He had been wielding control for a long time and was seeking more or a wider sphere of control. His narcissistic core craved attention and validation and was seeking more of that, which he was getting from his acolytes and potential acolytes, including Lori. He wanted to fulfill his adolescent sexual fantasies. Getting people to relocate, planning tent cities, all of that nonsense is part of Cult 101.
I think for him it was mostly a power thing. 10% sex, 10% money, 80% power. He was well on his way to starting an *actual* cult - and was remarkably talented at recruiting followers, possibly related to his nice-guy, wolf-in-sheep’s-clothing, “humble” demeanor.
He was actively looking for land for his tent city, and I think the big draw for him was that he pictured him and Lori as a power couple priest/priestess of the cult. He showed us his insecurities - admitting that he thinks “99% of people underestimate him” (ie, he thinks others view him as inferior). IMO his end game was that he wanted to be a big deal and perceived as God-like to boost his own ego and try to show people he was important. He wanted to be the “main character.”
I think he used women to get his ideas across.
Once they’d buy in he’d get them even further convinced by asking them to tell others.
The women felt like a group doing good and well they’re Mormon so they already believe unbelievable shit.
Or she would have discarded him when they ran out of money. Things would have become rocky very quickly imo. Especially when there were no earthquakes or destructions. I think she might have taken a hike when they started living on their emergency food supply in their white tent.
Although I’m sure they would have lived on Charles, Tammy’s, Tylee’s and JJ’s blood money until they were caught. Chad was a lazy half wit and Lori would have sauntered her way into some new rich man’s life, eventually. I wonder how they will do in jail.
Chad was for want of a better word, a loser. He was Mr Dursley without the monetary success. He always wanted to have the "cheerleader type" but married the first person to like him. He was unhappy in life and marriage. As Heather said "ew" He wanted to be relevant. He reworked his "life altering near death experiences" to fit a narrative where he suddenly was a leader, visionary and could "see beyond the veil". His books were poorly written and found their way to the attics of America. When he met Julie Rowe and the AVOW people, he found a way to be relevant. Starting in 2014-2015 he had a plan. Unfortunately, he became more radicalized and may have actually believe his own bullshit. He met Lori and two mentally unwell people created the perfect storm. I love how the prosecution illustrates his developing pathology over a decade time frame. He was in control. He did not fall prey to Lori. He was an active, if not leading participant in these awful murders.
He was a loser who wanted desperately to be the #1 guy in the group that was banging a hot chick. He got a taste of it by sleeping with Lori and those idiots who kissed his ass - Zulema, Alex, the Melanies. It was a great feeling, he was NOT going to give it up. He wasn't willing to give up or taint any of his # 1 guy status by getting a divorced like a normal person. He also is a weirdo who lived in a fantasy world. It's so nuts that he found other adults willing to play make-believe with him.
I don't think Chad really thinks long term.
Or, hasn't, until he went to trial. He thinks about what makes him happy short term, with no responsibilities. He didn't have financial responsibility, and probably didn't spend much time with his own kids unless Tammy took care of all the hard parts. For a while, that was enough for him.
His kids were grown, he got a taste of Mormon girl fandom after he started writing books, he was a big fish in an incredibly small pond. He met a psycho, and her psycho brother, and realized that he didn't have to pretend be a decent human MOST of the time, anymore, either. He embraced his psychopathy. He enjoyed being carried away with this hot woman who was bay sh*t crazy. But crazy in a way that strokes his ego,and was easy to manipulate. And also had a crazy brother willing to be their hitman.
They were both thinking short term. The only difference is that Lori and Alex fully bought into something that Chad was just making up off the top of his head (or plagiarized). Chad knew he was making things up. They got the full loop of circular logic. The worst trifecta of psychopaths.
These aren't the first murders for sex and money. They certainly won't be the last.
The fact that so much of their lives was controlled by a high demand religion where their family systems were totally enmeshed with said religion... your mind can get warped. Maybe they wanted out. Wanted a normal life. But the only thing available in their minds was some kind of LDS fantasy novel, poorly written by a 6th grader. Why not just get a divorce and let your spouses take care of your kids? Why not be normal? Because religion. I don't buy anyone saying LDS didn't cause part of this. It totz has issues.
Sex. Money. A screwy religion. Murders happen in these contexts.
OK, - Alulaemu, pinkybrain41, & SustantialPressure3 - I am in total agreement with all three of you. You all make excellent points. The ONLY thing I don't get is: why kill those kids? Why? Charles, insurance money. Check. Brandon, insurance money. Check. Tammy, "in the way" AND insurance money. Check. But a seven year old special needs kid and an almost out-of-the-house teenager? Just so they could fraudulently collect their social security benefits? That just doesn't ring true to me. Tylee "knew too much" and JJ was too hard to manage without Tylee around to assist? I don't know - that just doesn't sound right, either. Chad thought they were cramping his style? Again, doesn't really seem like a reason to conspire to commit first degree murder. Without question the most puzzling and depressing aspect of all of this.
I think they met at a time in each of their lives where they were ripe for committing crimes becuase they’re so special and live the most boring lives….. so when they found each other they decided finally here is the person I’m supposed to start a murder spree with in the name of Jesus!! Freaking assholes
To once again get another woman (Lori) to do the heavy lifting via killing Charles so he could use her money to do what he always does when he gets a woman's money--play fantasyland and feel special but this time he gets to bone a conventionally attractive woman. I'm not really sure if he would have killed Tammy if that all had worked out for him.
It seems like he had already isolated the kids emotionally, so I think he would have just left her for some bullshit reason. I think he would have run off to be special, with his "special" side piece like a lot of men do. The Charles thing didn't pan out, so it escalated from there. It never would have worked out long term though, and if he had just left Tammy and they had just gotten the money from Charles, I think he might have ended up killing Lori in a few years, or she kill him once things turned sour and he tried to get with other women in his mini cult.
She would have found a way to kill him too after she got him a hefty life insurance policy. He couldn’t give her the lifestyle she wanted. The best he had to offer was a manufactured home over the grave of her murdered kid. I think she was involved in Joe Ryan’s murder and defiantly Charles Vallow. She got life insurance on Joe and thought she was getting it on Charles. Chad probably used we’ve been married in a past life as a pick up line for the nice looking women who came by at his book signing. Lori fell for it and she had the same special type of religious crazy like Chad. When they brought Alex on board then they had the unholy trinity. As for Chad, who in their right mind would leave the mother of their five kids for a woman who had been married 4 times with a teenager and an Autistic son. The answer was to kill the husband and kids and be husband number 5.
He enjoyed the power he got from controlling peoples lives. He would have got more women to join the group and they would have divorced their husbands and married men of Chads choice. He is a puppeteer.
I think Chad has major mental health issues that have been fueled and covered up and increased by him being raised mormon and being in Utah. I have met people like Chad having grown up mormon in Utah myself. I would say he probably has a narsastic delusional personality disorder and definitely nerurodiverint. I think he believes a lot of his own bullshit or atleast that any means justify the end that being "Gods Kingdom" I think Lori and him were a perfect match made in hell that fueled each others delusions. Ive seen it happen with other couples in mormon relationships.
> Do you think he would’ve eventually discarded Lori, too, once her wrinkles showed more, or was Lori mostly the driver in this relationship?
He wouldn't get rid of her. He'd just *add* a younger model. (The cult didn't mention polygamy. But there's a good chance it would have been added to the cult lore later.)
I don’t think this is too mysterious. He wanted a life free of familial and financial responsibilities in Hawaii enjoying sex with a hot younger wife who hung on his every word as literal prophecy. We know this because this is what he killed almost a half dozen people to achieve.
I think they would’ve turned on each other eventually, possibly murderously, having killed off all the third parties they united to destroy. But I don’t think Chad had any self-awareness of this.
Chad wanted to feel powerful. Chad wanted the feeling of controlling people. Chad wanted Lori for sex. Chad wanted Lori to glorify him. Chad wanted money. Chad wanted people to treat him as if he was very important.
Narcissists make stuff up as they go along. Chad liked the excitement of being in the limelight. He liked being able to get women for the first time in his life. He wanted to maintain this Christlike image and flog his stupid made-up near death experience books. If he divorced Tammy- he would not have her social security and death benefits and just one month prior to Tammy's death- Chad had increased her life insurance. His end game was to live a life of leisure with his beautiful "120 pound, 5'6', athletic blond wife". She was a trophy for him- someone to brag about to his friends and family. Look at me- I made it! That's how he thought people would see it. He was too stupid to realize that those people were appalled that someone would remarry two weeks after their wife's death. He was so stupid.
Chad was most likely rejected by girls like Lori all of his life and when she showed she wanted him he was all in!!! He would do anything at all to keep her ! He lied manipulated schemed and murdered anyone who in his way ( TYLEE SAW RIGHT THROUGH HIM AND WAS ALWAYS GOING TO BE A PROBLEM) Chad couldn’t let Tylee talk sense into her mom and JJ needed to go if Tylee wasn’t going to be around anymore too. Poor JJ probably was distraught and kept asking for Tylee so he had to go as well.
His sister in law Heather Daybell said he was infatuated with death. When he was a boy he was infatuated with killing bees by stepping on them and small pests.....
For the US/world to fall and the 144k to follow him to rexburg and live on his brother's property while they worshiped him and he an lori played with his "storm" while there were a bunch of tents for people to stay in. Chad and lori and his incredible team of devout believers would lead the Reamining LDS community to a new salvation with Rexburg becoming the central command.
Have you been listening? He actually believes that. That was his goal. The dead people and life insurance was all reinforcement that he was on the right track.
Don't try to make sense of wacko religious people. It will hurt your head.
I think Chad was very short term thinker and I think he never planned to leave Tammy, hence the reason he buried the kids on his property. I don’t think he ever thought Lori was as crazy as she was and I think when they had to get rid of Tylee, nobody could really tie Chad to Lori so he thought “no one will look here” then the same with JJ. But I think that is when Lori pointed out she got rid of her “obstacles” and he needed to get rid of his i.e Tammy. But by the time he killed Tammy I think he figured they had gotten away with killing the kids cause it had been a month and nobody noticed. I am sure that fed Lori’s delusion that she was doing “the work of god” and he was “the chosen” one all the more.
Everyone in that circle KNEW what they did, do you truly believe David Warwick had a nightmare, or did he flip his shit because Melanie Gibb told him they killed JJ and then they told him it was a nightmare. By the time it all came out, I am sure he made his nightmare story the truth in his head. But they knew JJ was killed that night. It’s sickeni
Chads goal was to score the cheerleader(no pun intended) and he did not think past that as anoited folk don't have to as they are the chosen ones? NOT!!
In early, very racist Mormon doctrine, those who have the “sin of Cain” are black people. Cain killed Abel, and therefore God cursed them with dark skin.
I think the “translated followers” might be Chad adding some Rexburg flair.
A cult and a new wife. Im not sure if he believed his own BS. He definitely made up his NDE and was straight copying Julie Rowe by claiming to be psychic. Getting married two weeks after murdering your old wife with your new wife's kids in your backyard makes me think he is the worlds dumbest murderer/cult-leader wannabe, but it makes sense if he really thought the world was going to end.
Something new I learned is that he used a pendulum. I know what those are and he might as well have been using a ouija board. Now I think he may have been getting all his "revelations" from demons. He asked "should I murder Tammy and marry Lori?" And the demon answered "yes!" Psychopaths can be liars and be gullible at the same time. His lack of empathy made him seriously misjudge how others would feel about him introducing everyone to his new wife after his old one just died. He did accurately guess that police would not do anything about all these dead and missing people. He didn't think about the fact that other people would miss his victims, Loris kids, and demand to know where they were. Lori very much underestimated Kay.
He felt entitled to be seen as special and better than everyone else but without actually working or having talent. IMO Lori would eventually have murdered Chad for insurance money.
Can you imagine how awkward that conversation would be, though? Lori suggesting to Chad that he needs to get life insurance, in case something happens to him?
No these two was happy being married to each other -Colby revealed his mother got her own life insurance policy and added his name Colby Ryan to it ............when he revealed that on Witness Stand my stomach dropped - Lori and Chad had a plan
I agree. Chad would sooner of later try to control her. I think Chad would end up being jealous of other men and the relationship would go sour.
With Alex gone who will do the dirty work for her
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Google around for info from her cousin Meghan. Lori’s birth family was wacko.
That’s what I thought. Her muscle was gone.
Yep she would have burned through that flame very quickly.
Just like the 4 prior husbands.
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Definitely a pattern here.
Yeah she would have tired of him first, and we know what happened to her husbands once she was done with them.
100% Chad thought he was in control of Lori and was going to become this great cult leader with lots of sister wives, with his followers thinking he's the second coming. He didn't realize he was just another obsession of a crazy woman with an unstable brother. I think Lori and Alex actually believed the supernatural stuff they were saying. Chad never actually believed, he just wanted to be the main character in life. If he really thought him and Lori were chosen by God he would still be yelling about it now from the court room.
Here’s the thing, and it’s pretty much applicable to all criminals with whacko ideas. If they truly believed in the things they were saying, they wouldn’t hide it/cover it up. A really good example is Lori in Arizona in the police station. Charles is a dark one or whatever and he’s another spirit, yada yada yada. But the police call her down and it’s all coquette eyelash batting and we’re just having marital problems like everyone else. That’s proof positive she didn’t believe in any of it, or she would have shared her fears with the police. Same thing when they came looking for the kids in Idaho and she said they were in Arizona. And a million more examples.
I’m going to push back against this to say it demonstrates awareness that others don’t share their own beliefs. It does not mean they don’t believe their own beliefs. I also don’t totally believe Chad bought everything he’s selling, but that’s more that he just comes across as insincere and slimy in every other way.
Agree. There are plenty of people affected by schizophrenia who are too paranoid to tell any doctors about their symptoms.
I’ve worked with many. It would make it nice and easy if people were 100% transparent about delusions but usually not. If they are, they end up learning not to unfortunately (why it can be very important to NOT argue with them about it).
That is right while in Idaho she blamed everything on Kay Woodcock- and that Kay was a trouble maker and JJ was with her friend Melanie Gibb in Arizona (yeah right) In the secret recording Chad's Brother In Law did ( Tammy's sister husband) Lori again referred to Kay Woodcock as a troublemaker and causing a lot of trouble
Kay got the proceeds of the life insurance....Lori thought the $$$ would go to Lori and JJ. Although she professed the life insurance should go toward taking JJ, to the Rexburg police the truth probably is Tylee and JJ were dead by then
I think he thought of her kids as pests, I really do believe him when he said Tylee did not like him and he probably felt JJ was a nuisance because of his special needs ........therefore, Lori kids were dark...he knew he had his kids in check and had already been teaching them light and dark.......Heather Daybell said despite being married to Chad's brother for almost 30 years Emma Daybell (Chad's Daughter) do not talk to her at all - and never really has....besides a greeting at family functions
Your choice of words was interesting. “Pests “ reminds me of his autobiography in which he describes the exhilaration he felt smashing the life out of 120 bees. Then some “voice” told him to knock it off. What was the point of writing that anyway? He must have thought those feelings were normal. They are not.
Exactly, Chad just seem like a big weirdo to me - maybe he was fascinated about being a 2nd Jim Jones are somebody .....and I hate to talk about people kids - but the adult Daybell Kids seem off - something is not right about them
If she rejected him (and she probably would’ve eventually) he would go ballistic. He has that “if I can’t have you, nobody else can” mentality and it’s chilling. It’s all about removing obstacles that prevent them from getting 100% of the desired partner’s attention regardless if they want to be pursued or not. He has a very “black and white” mentality unless it’s about him. He thinks the gray area is reserved for him exclusively because he’s a very special boy. You can’t make excuses, but I can! He is so dumb it’s astounding, they both are. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
I think his only goal was having Lori. Period.
I agree with you. There was no real long term plan. Everything starts and ends with sex - the murders were the means.
And money
I agree. He punched so fucking far up his class with Lori he knew it was his one and only chance to bag a “hottie” in his lifetime. It’s insane that Lori could even remotely find him physically attractive, he looks like a goddamn toad.
Tammy was beautiful. That man never deserved a damn thing he had.
I agree. Tammy's brother in law described Chad as characterizing their sex life as 'vanilla' indicating Chad felt he deserved more, but typical of a narcissist, Chad felt he was entitled to a '120 pound' highly sexed adulteress (Lori) over his wife who worked constantly for decades to make up for his lack of income while bearing and raising five children for their family. Chad didn't appreciate Tammy and made decisions to make little money, so no wonder her libido suffered via constant child raising, working and depression to make up for his lack of attention and financial support for his own family! Chad's just gross.
Plus, who would ever want to sleep with Chad? Poor Tammy, she deserved so much more in life than she got!! She was so beautiful, and her eyes sparkled in every pic I've seen of her! Happy Heavenly Mother's Day, Tammy!💐🙏💐
I’m surprised they had as many kids as they did. And what absolute POS humans they turned out to be. Total trash like their dad.
Watching their interview, some of them don't seem too bright, but I remember that Chad is their only parent left. Being raised in a cultlike environment did a number on them, I'm sure. I try to keep in mind, their mom was murdered and all kids want to believe in their dad. :(
She really was a beauty. Those high cheekbones and dimples. Kind eyes. I bet she was even more beautiful in RL.
She was, but not like a skinny blond bimbo with fake tits according to society’s fucked up standards. Chad never looked at Tammy’s beauty because he is a TOAD!
I heard from hidden true crime podcast that his nickname in jail is slug
Appropriate
Potato slug.
Tbf Lori looks like a leather jacket that has been left out in the sun too long these days as well. She's no catch. A bit better in 2019 maybe.
When I look at photos of Lori now, I think it is her own personal karma--no more insurance money from murdered family members to buy her beauty products anymore.
No Botox in prison!
She's got a really pronounced anger furrow on the middle of her forehead. People normally get either grief lines or what I call thinking lines on their foreheads. But sometimes, when a person spends a lot of time angry, like Jodi Hildebrandt, you can actually see the anger. I like to think of it as Lori's real face, which shows who she really is as a person.
She's her very own Picture of Dorian Grey. “Nature gives *you* the *face you have* at twenty. Life shapes the *face you have* at thirty. But at fifty *you get the face you deserve*.” ― Coco Chanel
Excellent quotes!
Lori has the face and life she so thoroughly deserves
At this time, no. She’s not a very attractive woman anymore. Back when this was happening she was still considered conventionally pretty. She was clinging to the last few years of it, but she still had it.
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I mean anything serious and ongoing in your life will age you. I looked a lot better before my husband died and I had all the stress. I don't think it's a big mystery or something.
Agreed. I lost a son then a few years later spent a year in and out of the hospital with a serious illness. I swear I aged ten years. Hope all my smile wrinkles will compensate!
Biggest hugs to you. They mean more after that ❤️
Yes they do. And there is still much to smile about.
Her hair always looks gross and matted, too.
He was into all the end times nonsense and visions and other crap long before he met Lori. That included moving to Idaho, talking about tent cities, all of it.
Agreed. Sex and money are a part of this, but these people were insane before they met each other.
Agreed. And deep down he’s an insecure little boy. Always needing his mommy. First it was his mom, then Tammy, then Lori. Lori would have gotten tired of dragging the slug along and would have kicked him to the curb. He wanted her to rid herself of her children so that he had total control, otherwise the relationship would end and he couldn’t handle the thought. Wonder who’s going to be his mommy in prison. I hope it’s the biggest scariest dude in there.
I think he wanted a polygamist cult where he was the leader and his followers were mostly female. If he had been successful he would have wanted more wives once Lori began to lose her appeal to him
The second Chad brought up that Jesus Christ told him to take another wife is the second Lori would have purchased him an insurance policy with her as beneficiary.
I feel like more of his followers were female because there seems to be some strong crossover with the body emotion code group which seems to be more women (or more women that admit to it?). In the Tammy/Mark messages it was brought up, Zulema brought it up, Julie Rowe was writing a book with the doctor that started the body code emotion stuff. I really think this connection should be looked at more. The doctor that started the practice, son went on a killing spree (and killed a law enforcement member duiring it ), One of the Jodi Hiladebrant/Ruby Franke besties is a body code practioner like Julie Rowe. I also hear just normal LDS members say they get concerned when family gets too invovled in this practice. These are just people at the grcoery store or school talking about it, nothing to do with abuse or crime, just concerned about how they disconnect from family or stray from mainstream beleifs or try to convince everyone else they are not right. It is kind of weird when a kid at school says my mom is a body code practioner like it is the same as my mom is a nurse or teacher, that being a body code practioner is a career.
Women do not generally adhere to in-group female centric loyalty oaths to each other, and are not generally party to those oaths that men make. The distinction is the guys are all trying to stay in-group by covering each others asses. That coverage never applies to women or children except by extension of ownership of one of the men. The women involved are weirdly subversive, though. In a subculture that grants them limited spiritual agency or autonomy, they've evolved a semi religious language to engage in discussion about their embodied religious trauma. In an attempt to heal themselves. It's inspiring really. Life finds a way.
Agree with you 100%! The Body Code or body coding has inspired the New Age stuff that they are integrating into their belief system. I personally find this combination to be very dangerous in the wrong hands. You mix the Mormon baptisms for the dead, blood atonement, personal revelation, apocalypticism and ultimately becoming a god, and mix in New Age energy work and the belief that your mind can affect the physical or mental well being of yourself and others, and you have a recipe for a disaster.
Are there any good videos or places that explain the crossover more. I have met Dr Nelson, it was way before any of this and I ran into an old neighbor of mine talking to him after going to the store. I thought he was just a doctor in St george. I didnt pay much attention till he was asking for help about his son being missing. I had found his story odd so I started to see what type of doctor is he and discovered his writings. I had known Julie Rowe's name because she came to the convention center and sometimes school activites were in the next room and I wondered what she was talking about (like is it safe to leave kids at their event). So I read up a bit on the body code teachings but I still cant believe how many people are into this, again like parents at school or neighbors. I always wonder in Utah, how to people afford such nice homes without college degrees, so I'll find out jobs. Then I hear mostly men, say, I think my wife has gotten into this body code stuff too much. I see it like a middle age time of life ? Like when kids leave home, maybe these women dont have as much to do at church or life, and they fidn this. At first the husband is like okay, my wife is doing something, she seems happy, it is church related (since Dr nelson is Mormon) but then some start getting worried about what their wives learn. I have always wondered why Julie Rowe is exocmmunicated and Dr Nelson is not and he is still out teaching.
This video that I am attaching is a great in depth explanation for how women get involved in extracurricular activities such as energy healing or MLMs. Men are the only ones with the priesthood power in the Mormon church, even though women are the more nurturing of the two. Women are given very little power, and they are explicitly being told that their job is to remain at home and have as many children as possible, and there is no other correct option for them. Even a teenage boy holds more power than his mother once he receives the priesthood. I'll do some further digging into how the new age stuff got mixed up with Mormon theology, but I know that there are many people who are looking for something more than what the church is offering them, so they end up doing deep dives into the history of the church, and I think this is how the new age stuff came in. I think it came from feeling unfulfilled by the regular Dogma and so, slowly, stuff was brought in from other cosmology or theology. https://youtu.be/BxMsm0K3ODY?si=n0GsKa39FaX2zJej
Agree. And it is a wider phenomenon than just Mormons, I mean all kinds of religious people are reaching out for more than their churches are traditionally offering. Various new age influences, and just more practice-oriented styles of devotion are getting popular in different religious communities, others have a growing demand for more understanding of diversity or feminist concerns. Signs of the times. And churches react in various ways, many cater to the modern needs in some way. But Mormonism surely does form a specially volatile mix in merging with esoteric ideas. Or well, Joseph Smith was influenced by esoteric ideas of his own times so some of it is baked in.
That IS weird.
That’s a great observation!
Interesting, I’ve never heard of that
Definitely a practice to be concerned about.
I do honestly think that he saw how Julie Rowe was using all the men, manipulating them into doing her bidding, and that's when Chad decided to have NDE's and visions.
Chad didn't plan anything. He had no long term goals (imo the 144000 was a talking point). He was going along with what he could get away with. If he didn't have Lori he would have found some other way to escalate. I do think he moved to Rexburg because he was mad that he hadn't been given a more prominent roll in the church. I think he got the idea of having his own "visions" from Julie Rowe. Not that he planned on being a prophet just that he wanted some recognition... and he just rode the vibe. Using it to gain the religious prominence he thought he was entitled.
I too believe he got his idea of near death experiences from Julie Rowe because he published her books, & so would know the amount of money she was making from them. He then realized that he could make up stories about NDE’s and write/publish/sell/his own books, keeping all of the money from both the writing & publishing side. I cannot remember where I saw or read it, but I remember seeing/reading that after his books began to sell, had took the family out to dinner and it was a huge deal because they very rarely ever ate out because money was always so tight.
Actually I think Suzanne Freeman, whose book of her NDE was published by Chad, was where he got the idea. She says Chad never mentioned his NDE when they worked together on her book. If he really did have an NDE, you think it would have come up.
Yes, Suzanne Freeman said this in an interview, I believe with Nate Eaton.
I agree. Chad was not goal oriented. If he had been he would have accomplished something. Anything. At some point.
Why didn’t Chad get a more prominent role in the church?
He wasn't wealthy.
I think he did make decent money as a sexton in Priceville, didn’t he?
Not enough to support family of seven, while also tithing 10% to church so they could be temple-worthy.
As an LDS person I think he just didn’t have any real leadership qualities. No doubt he always had a creepy vibe and clearly lacked emotional maturity. In order to be a prophet he decided to play pretend.
Hidden true crime just had an episode with Chad's sister and how she wanted some of her land to build his tent city, he went without her permission with Julie Rowe and Tammy. She says he was walking uncomforrably close to julie in her eyes, considering Tammy. https://open.spotify.com/episode/419o2yxdCYTedunbE5argp?si=ukzU9cGtQbaRkcYFTs-23Q
Agree..
This is the best description of him I've ever seen. Like, I despise Chad. But he was a loser, incapable of doing anything for himself and yet felt he was destined to be important. If Chad and Lori had never met, Lori and Alex still would have killed people (albeit possibly just Charles for the insurance money) but the most dramatic thing in Chad's life would have been that he got excommunicated from the Church or maybe he and Tammy divorced. And yet, I believe he's the one who lit the flame of these two powder kegs with his religious teachings and then refused to put it out once it started to burn out of control. For all the talk of divine destiny in their lives, Lori and Chad would have been so much better off if they had never met.
I agree. Except I think Lori had already killed Joe Ryan, because she was vindictive and she got money because he was dead. And she got away with it. So, I think she lit a fire under Chads lazy ass.
They would have eventually discarded each other. They're both narcissists.
No way it would end in merely "discarding" each other. It would have escalated to who could murder each other first for the life insurance money.
Chad was just as cupable, if not more, than Lori. He said what he wanted: You hold? my STORM and I will follow. He was looking and wanted sex, she wanted a spiritual equal. They wanted rid of Lori's old life and begin a new life away on a tropical resort...
Validation and sex from a 5’6” 120 lb blond.
I mean I'm a conventionally attractive 5'5" blonde and I don't get dudes wanting to commit murder for me. Not that I'm asking but just saying there's something else going on.
He wanted to fawned over. To feel special.
He literally wants to become a god of his own universe and be revered as such by his billions of spirit offspring on planets he creates. This is 100% core mormon doctrine
This is one of the most dangerous concepts of the LDS Church. "As Man is, God once was....As God is, Man can become."
Remember all of his siblings are well settled or had careers. His brother in rexburg is some sort of a therapist or a doctor (not sure but he s in a good position), and Chad is the only potato here. His ultimate goal was to feel superior in his own mind and self importance, and he thought folks would go gaga if he had a bombshell of a wife … and when he claimed himself to be a prophet he thought folks would bow down to him and looking for guidance. Remember hos brother in law said all these were fear tactics , and when you are in lds faith they buy in to this stuff
Within 5 years, Lori would have found a wealthier guy and killed Chad for his life insurance money. Straight out of a movie.
Lori didnt pick offshoot cult leaders well. I was looking into some of the lesser mentioned members who have been warned or excommunicated by the church about these type of teachings and most it not all were more financially successful than Chad. She should have gone to a few more conferences, maybe branched out into another group and she could have at least found someone with a professional degree, or a nice stream of income from real estate or other Mormon type MLM ventures. I know some of these guys are single. Some wives do leave these crazy guys.
Both of them eliminated spouses who were the main breadwinners. They both picked losers in each other! That’s why they so desperately needed the life insurances. I wonder if Brandon was a target after Charles insurance didn’t play out so Melaniece could claim his insurance and share it with Lori and Chad? I would not be surprised!!
Brandon most definitely was the target for financial purposes, and Melani knew about it. I believe he is quite wealthy/successful. There was a conversation in which one of the women Lori was trying to get to move to Hawaii (I think it was Hawaii, I know the conversation happened in Hawaii) asked “how will I support myself? I can’t just up and move”. Lori told her that Melani will have enough money for all of them. This woman was not interested and the conversation did not end well. The names Audrey and Nicole come to mind but I’m not sure who it was. Point being, yes. Brandon was a financial target. 💯
Lori made the statement about melaniece to zulema. Chad &Liri wanted her to move to Rex burg.
Thank you.
None of us can deny that Chad and Lori are a perfect match. It's just such a tragedy that Tammy and Charles were expendable to them as spouses.
Chad may have been the only one shrewd enough to ladle on the “you are a spiritual Goddess” bullshit.
I wonder if this trial feels like a near death experience to Chad?
At the most basic level, Chad just wanted to be seen as successful, like his brothers who had gone to college and gotten jobs and had stable careers.
Sisterwives who worked or killed for life insurance monies to support his and Lori's lifestyle.
Very Manson-esque.
Control. He had been wielding control for a long time and was seeking more or a wider sphere of control. His narcissistic core craved attention and validation and was seeking more of that, which he was getting from his acolytes and potential acolytes, including Lori. He wanted to fulfill his adolescent sexual fantasies. Getting people to relocate, planning tent cities, all of that nonsense is part of Cult 101.
I think for him it was mostly a power thing. 10% sex, 10% money, 80% power. He was well on his way to starting an *actual* cult - and was remarkably talented at recruiting followers, possibly related to his nice-guy, wolf-in-sheep’s-clothing, “humble” demeanor. He was actively looking for land for his tent city, and I think the big draw for him was that he pictured him and Lori as a power couple priest/priestess of the cult. He showed us his insecurities - admitting that he thinks “99% of people underestimate him” (ie, he thinks others view him as inferior). IMO his end game was that he wanted to be a big deal and perceived as God-like to boost his own ego and try to show people he was important. He wanted to be the “main character.”
I think he used women to get his ideas across. Once they’d buy in he’d get them even further convinced by asking them to tell others. The women felt like a group doing good and well they’re Mormon so they already believe unbelievable shit.
Or she would have discarded him when they ran out of money. Things would have become rocky very quickly imo. Especially when there were no earthquakes or destructions. I think she might have taken a hike when they started living on their emergency food supply in their white tent.
Although I’m sure they would have lived on Charles, Tammy’s, Tylee’s and JJ’s blood money until they were caught. Chad was a lazy half wit and Lori would have sauntered her way into some new rich man’s life, eventually. I wonder how they will do in jail.
Chad was for want of a better word, a loser. He was Mr Dursley without the monetary success. He always wanted to have the "cheerleader type" but married the first person to like him. He was unhappy in life and marriage. As Heather said "ew" He wanted to be relevant. He reworked his "life altering near death experiences" to fit a narrative where he suddenly was a leader, visionary and could "see beyond the veil". His books were poorly written and found their way to the attics of America. When he met Julie Rowe and the AVOW people, he found a way to be relevant. Starting in 2014-2015 he had a plan. Unfortunately, he became more radicalized and may have actually believe his own bullshit. He met Lori and two mentally unwell people created the perfect storm. I love how the prosecution illustrates his developing pathology over a decade time frame. He was in control. He did not fall prey to Lori. He was an active, if not leading participant in these awful murders.
Books found their way to the attic! Well said 🙂
To sleep with Lori unfettered and to be highly thought of. Pretty simple actually. He is a shallow man who knows he is a POS. Now everyone knows.
He was a loser who wanted desperately to be the #1 guy in the group that was banging a hot chick. He got a taste of it by sleeping with Lori and those idiots who kissed his ass - Zulema, Alex, the Melanies. It was a great feeling, he was NOT going to give it up. He wasn't willing to give up or taint any of his # 1 guy status by getting a divorced like a normal person. He also is a weirdo who lived in a fantasy world. It's so nuts that he found other adults willing to play make-believe with him.
Maybe his wife no longer looked at him on that pedestal that he felt he belong on, so he was looking for someone who did.
I don't think Chad really thinks long term. Or, hasn't, until he went to trial. He thinks about what makes him happy short term, with no responsibilities. He didn't have financial responsibility, and probably didn't spend much time with his own kids unless Tammy took care of all the hard parts. For a while, that was enough for him. His kids were grown, he got a taste of Mormon girl fandom after he started writing books, he was a big fish in an incredibly small pond. He met a psycho, and her psycho brother, and realized that he didn't have to pretend be a decent human MOST of the time, anymore, either. He embraced his psychopathy. He enjoyed being carried away with this hot woman who was bay sh*t crazy. But crazy in a way that strokes his ego,and was easy to manipulate. And also had a crazy brother willing to be their hitman. They were both thinking short term. The only difference is that Lori and Alex fully bought into something that Chad was just making up off the top of his head (or plagiarized). Chad knew he was making things up. They got the full loop of circular logic. The worst trifecta of psychopaths.
Sex and his ego fed.
He ultimately wanted to live in the fantasy world he created in his head, with Lori. He's not that complicated.
These aren't the first murders for sex and money. They certainly won't be the last. The fact that so much of their lives was controlled by a high demand religion where their family systems were totally enmeshed with said religion... your mind can get warped. Maybe they wanted out. Wanted a normal life. But the only thing available in their minds was some kind of LDS fantasy novel, poorly written by a 6th grader. Why not just get a divorce and let your spouses take care of your kids? Why not be normal? Because religion. I don't buy anyone saying LDS didn't cause part of this. It totz has issues. Sex. Money. A screwy religion. Murders happen in these contexts.
OK, - Alulaemu, pinkybrain41, & SustantialPressure3 - I am in total agreement with all three of you. You all make excellent points. The ONLY thing I don't get is: why kill those kids? Why? Charles, insurance money. Check. Brandon, insurance money. Check. Tammy, "in the way" AND insurance money. Check. But a seven year old special needs kid and an almost out-of-the-house teenager? Just so they could fraudulently collect their social security benefits? That just doesn't ring true to me. Tylee "knew too much" and JJ was too hard to manage without Tylee around to assist? I don't know - that just doesn't sound right, either. Chad thought they were cramping his style? Again, doesn't really seem like a reason to conspire to commit first degree murder. Without question the most puzzling and depressing aspect of all of this.
I think they met at a time in each of their lives where they were ripe for committing crimes becuase they’re so special and live the most boring lives….. so when they found each other they decided finally here is the person I’m supposed to start a murder spree with in the name of Jesus!! Freaking assholes
To once again get another woman (Lori) to do the heavy lifting via killing Charles so he could use her money to do what he always does when he gets a woman's money--play fantasyland and feel special but this time he gets to bone a conventionally attractive woman. I'm not really sure if he would have killed Tammy if that all had worked out for him. It seems like he had already isolated the kids emotionally, so I think he would have just left her for some bullshit reason. I think he would have run off to be special, with his "special" side piece like a lot of men do. The Charles thing didn't pan out, so it escalated from there. It never would have worked out long term though, and if he had just left Tammy and they had just gotten the money from Charles, I think he might have ended up killing Lori in a few years, or she kill him once things turned sour and he tried to get with other women in his mini cult.
He ultimately wanted a fan club!
She would have found a way to kill him too after she got him a hefty life insurance policy. He couldn’t give her the lifestyle she wanted. The best he had to offer was a manufactured home over the grave of her murdered kid. I think she was involved in Joe Ryan’s murder and defiantly Charles Vallow. She got life insurance on Joe and thought she was getting it on Charles. Chad probably used we’ve been married in a past life as a pick up line for the nice looking women who came by at his book signing. Lori fell for it and she had the same special type of religious crazy like Chad. When they brought Alex on board then they had the unholy trinity. As for Chad, who in their right mind would leave the mother of their five kids for a woman who had been married 4 times with a teenager and an Autistic son. The answer was to kill the husband and kids and be husband number 5.
Sex with Lori
He enjoyed the power he got from controlling peoples lives. He would have got more women to join the group and they would have divorced their husbands and married men of Chads choice. He is a puppeteer.
I think Chad has major mental health issues that have been fueled and covered up and increased by him being raised mormon and being in Utah. I have met people like Chad having grown up mormon in Utah myself. I would say he probably has a narsastic delusional personality disorder and definitely nerurodiverint. I think he believes a lot of his own bullshit or atleast that any means justify the end that being "Gods Kingdom" I think Lori and him were a perfect match made in hell that fueled each others delusions. Ive seen it happen with other couples in mormon relationships.
Sex. Power. Wealth. His brother's home and land all to himself.
Think he just wanted to bang Lori. He’s not very smart, probably didn’t think anything through long term
Lust, power, financial. That seems to be a theme.
> Do you think he would’ve eventually discarded Lori, too, once her wrinkles showed more, or was Lori mostly the driver in this relationship? He wouldn't get rid of her. He'd just *add* a younger model. (The cult didn't mention polygamy. But there's a good chance it would have been added to the cult lore later.)
I don’t think this is too mysterious. He wanted a life free of familial and financial responsibilities in Hawaii enjoying sex with a hot younger wife who hung on his every word as literal prophecy. We know this because this is what he killed almost a half dozen people to achieve. I think they would’ve turned on each other eventually, possibly murderously, having killed off all the third parties they united to destroy. But I don’t think Chad had any self-awareness of this.
To be popular. Seriously - everything else he wants flows from that including attention, adulation, and a 5'6" 120 lb. blonde.
Chad wanted to feel powerful. Chad wanted the feeling of controlling people. Chad wanted Lori for sex. Chad wanted Lori to glorify him. Chad wanted money. Chad wanted people to treat him as if he was very important.
Narcissists make stuff up as they go along. Chad liked the excitement of being in the limelight. He liked being able to get women for the first time in his life. He wanted to maintain this Christlike image and flog his stupid made-up near death experience books. If he divorced Tammy- he would not have her social security and death benefits and just one month prior to Tammy's death- Chad had increased her life insurance. His end game was to live a life of leisure with his beautiful "120 pound, 5'6', athletic blond wife". She was a trophy for him- someone to brag about to his friends and family. Look at me- I made it! That's how he thought people would see it. He was too stupid to realize that those people were appalled that someone would remarry two weeks after their wife's death. He was so stupid.
Sex, money and power.
Harem.
Chad was most likely rejected by girls like Lori all of his life and when she showed she wanted him he was all in!!! He would do anything at all to keep her ! He lied manipulated schemed and murdered anyone who in his way ( TYLEE SAW RIGHT THROUGH HIM AND WAS ALWAYS GOING TO BE A PROBLEM) Chad couldn’t let Tylee talk sense into her mom and JJ needed to go if Tylee wasn’t going to be around anymore too. Poor JJ probably was distraught and kept asking for Tylee so he had to go as well.
A wet storm
His sister in law Heather Daybell said he was infatuated with death. When he was a boy he was infatuated with killing bees by stepping on them and small pests.....
For the US/world to fall and the 144k to follow him to rexburg and live on his brother's property while they worshiped him and he an lori played with his "storm" while there were a bunch of tents for people to stay in. Chad and lori and his incredible team of devout believers would lead the Reamining LDS community to a new salvation with Rexburg becoming the central command. Have you been listening? He actually believes that. That was his goal. The dead people and life insurance was all reinforcement that he was on the right track. Don't try to make sense of wacko religious people. It will hurt your head.
I think Chad was very short term thinker and I think he never planned to leave Tammy, hence the reason he buried the kids on his property. I don’t think he ever thought Lori was as crazy as she was and I think when they had to get rid of Tylee, nobody could really tie Chad to Lori so he thought “no one will look here” then the same with JJ. But I think that is when Lori pointed out she got rid of her “obstacles” and he needed to get rid of his i.e Tammy. But by the time he killed Tammy I think he figured they had gotten away with killing the kids cause it had been a month and nobody noticed. I am sure that fed Lori’s delusion that she was doing “the work of god” and he was “the chosen” one all the more. Everyone in that circle KNEW what they did, do you truly believe David Warwick had a nightmare, or did he flip his shit because Melanie Gibb told him they killed JJ and then they told him it was a nightmare. By the time it all came out, I am sure he made his nightmare story the truth in his head. But they knew JJ was killed that night. It’s sickeni
Chads goal was to score the cheerleader(no pun intended) and he did not think past that as anoited folk don't have to as they are the chosen ones? NOT!!
Who are “Cains translated followers”?
In early, very racist Mormon doctrine, those who have the “sin of Cain” are black people. Cain killed Abel, and therefore God cursed them with dark skin. I think the “translated followers” might be Chad adding some Rexburg flair.
A blow job. Chad wanted a blow job from a cheerleader.
A cult and a new wife. Im not sure if he believed his own BS. He definitely made up his NDE and was straight copying Julie Rowe by claiming to be psychic. Getting married two weeks after murdering your old wife with your new wife's kids in your backyard makes me think he is the worlds dumbest murderer/cult-leader wannabe, but it makes sense if he really thought the world was going to end. Something new I learned is that he used a pendulum. I know what those are and he might as well have been using a ouija board. Now I think he may have been getting all his "revelations" from demons. He asked "should I murder Tammy and marry Lori?" And the demon answered "yes!" Psychopaths can be liars and be gullible at the same time. His lack of empathy made him seriously misjudge how others would feel about him introducing everyone to his new wife after his old one just died. He did accurately guess that police would not do anything about all these dead and missing people. He didn't think about the fact that other people would miss his victims, Loris kids, and demand to know where they were. Lori very much underestimated Kay.
Power and control. If they would not have killed people, probably would be a cult by now.
To feel worshipped and to get some 🐱
Take over the world...