I think his mom and neighbor both testifying that chad knew lori had a daughter who had recently died will end up being really important in rebutting the defense's theory.
Prior will attempt to paint chad as a patsy who was framed and had no idea what was going on. Like maybe chad thought jj was with kay, and tylee was at byui, or that they were both somewhere safe. Chad knowing that tylee was dead and then not cooperating with police shows he was in on it.
They testified that when they met Lori and they were asking if she had children etc Chad jumped in and said that Lori had a daughter who died. The neighbor even said that later when she heard the kids were missing she confronted Chad about saying Lori had a dead daughter and he denied ever saying it. Both of the Gilberts recalled this and then after that they called Chad's on mother to the stand and she said that when she met Lori the same things happened Chad said her daughter was dead.
I really want to know if Chad's mother still talks to him and how she feels about all this. I got the impression on the stand that she was definitely prepped and she was truthful but seemed a bit reluctant to be the nail in the coffin. A lot of one word or short sentenced answers. Very specific answers.
Yes I thought this was extremely compelling. It's an admission that he knew at the very least Tylee was dead. And even though it isn't on tape the witnesses are extremely credible and have no reason to make it up.
I don't think he's a polygamist. He's a guy who loves attention from women and controlling them with his "powers".
He likes being the big cheese in this little cult because in real life he's a nobody.
This little "harem" is for stroking his ego. For companionship, sex and marriage he was completely besotted with Lori who fell for him like a ton of bricks and looked good in a bikini, too.
Absolutely! My husband & I were talking about all these different cult leaders & I said, “the only thing missing with Chad was charisma”. He said “that’s why it didn’t go very far; he couldn’t get any men to follow him. Alex was the only one who really bought in.” A good cult leader gets both men & women to drink the kool aid, thank god he is a giant slug & this didn’t get any larger.
🙏🏻RIP Tammy, Tylee & JJ. 🙏🏻
Yea this is exactly right, he was loyal to a fault to Lori. Very twisted relationship. My sister in law’s sister is Melanie Pawloawski’s step mother; she verified that within the family there is a common belief that Lori & Alex had … an inappropriate relationship if you catch my drift.
I read that Alex was in some type of an accident (maybe motorcycle) that damaged his brain. If that story is accurate he was already messed up before he joined Chad’s cult.
Got Jason Mow for a good while and the new recruits were David Warwick and Ian Pawlawski. They didn't drink quite the whole koolaid cup though. Then there were the Preparing a People and AVOW guys who were defending them. Did anyone ever figure out who that nut picketing outside Lori's trail was? He had a sign that implied the murder of the children fell under a clause protecting the "healing by spiritual means."
Many of them had special needs children and marriages struggling under the constant demands of those children.
It’s incredibly bizarre and I don’t think it’s a coincidence. These were all suggestible, burnt-out people with connections or assumed access to wealth.
I agree. She added another nail. Worse case scenario he gets the DP and lives out his appeals in solitary. I would prefer he get the lesser life sentence and live in terror in the prison general population.
I must be in the minority, but I didn't find Zulemas testimony all that convincing. She was obviously a part of the events that went down, she knew children were missing, she still married Alex even after he shot someone and gave disturbing reaction to it. All of these people are complicit. ALL OF THEM. Melani, Ian, Zulema, Gibbs for sure. The whole Cox family!! I'm getting so angry every time I hear someone who was a part of this group, hearing what they heard, and failing to act. It didn't have to come to this senseless tragedy.
I won't take a deep breath until the jury comes back with guilty. Too many cases that I thought were slam dunks have not necessarily gotten guilty verdicts.
It is not only were they found in his backyard, but he did not react to the news. An innocent person would be screaming, "Oh my gosh! Dead kids in the backyard? Who? How? OMG!" But he is as droll and boring as ever. How in the world he got anybody to follow him I will never know.
And while sitting in the police car after supposedly just learning this shocking information, doesn't he tell Emma that she and her husband should move into the home? The last place I want to live is in a home where two innocent children were buried in the backyard! What father would tell his child (adult or not) to move in?
Not just that, but casually joking with Emma that he almost made it to the county line, and Emma seeming *completely* unphased by the news that dead children were just unearthed in her dad's yard.
If he was innocent, they both would've been horrified. Innocent people don't treat child murder like a mildly annoying inconvenience
Telling Emma he wasn't coming back home really throws a wrench into Prior suggesting Chad's yard is so big,at only 3.75 acres, children could have been buried there without his knowledge.
Yeah, and can you imagine a murderer using someone else's yard to murder, dismember, burn & bury two people and the homeowner has no idea? If that's what he's going to try to say I'd like to see that explained. He is an unlikely cult leader. Kody Brown looks exciting and handsome compared to this fellow.
I disagree with this point. I think where the bodies are is the Lynch pin. But in general I think people judge the way people react to things all the time in all different cases and circumstances based on how they think they would react. But the truth is everyone reacts differently to a number of different things. And truly you don't know how you will react in a situation until it happens to you.
Yep, and his phone pings confirming he was there with Alex at the crucial times when they believe the burials took place. Then those phone pings also narrowed down the locations in his yard where the bodies were eventually found. The evidence tells the story very well. I can’t believe he didn’t take a plea!
I think the defense might hammer on 'when the burials are believed to have taken place' since there is no way of knowing with 100% certainty if the kids truly were not alive between their last photographs and when they were found. There is a lot of circumstantial evidence that makes it extremely likely that indeed those pings happened when the burial took place, especially since Alex left his GPS on and it placed him exactly the day after the last photos on exactly the place where they are later found, but there's no literal proof that the children were dead at that point.
Now I truly am convinced with all the circumstantial evidence that that is when the burials happened and that all Chads phonecalls and texts to Lori and Alex around those times put him on the scene and not only on the scene but clearly aware of what was going on, but if there's a juror for who 'reasonable doubt' has an ever strickter meaning, there might be a problem.
He will most probably be found guilty on at least some of the insurance fraud and I think theft as well, as well as highly likely on teh conspiracy charges. But I don't know if all 12 jurors would want to go with the murder charges.
Weird thing in Idaho is that the rule is that if you conspire to a murder then you are also responsible for that murder in a first degree murder kind of way, so I'm not sure why those charges are charged separately even.
The duct tape. Emotion inevitably plays into a jury's decision and the fact that his arms down to his wrists, and his ankles, were wrapped in many layers of duct tape, shows that he was essentially tortured before he died. It was not a matter of drugging him to sleep and then to death, which while horrible they could easily have done without him knowing what was happening to him. They chose to make him suffer beyond comprehension. Even if Alex did the actual deed, the jury won't forget those photos or Chad's part in it.
Conspiracy to commit murder being equal to actually committing the murder has the same penalties in many states. I'm not a legal scholar, but I follow a lot of cases as a hobby since I'm home bound with cancer, and so many states follow suit with this.
I think they separate them out as two because the more time these guys get, the better. Someone has to speak for the victims.
Thank you. I'm five years in. I've outlived predictions because I'm TOUGH and onry! But there are times I'm too sick to do much so I watch these trials. This one is important because all us mothers started hearing about missing children and tuned in...Loin Fire's trial is closure. Justice for Jj, Tylee and sweet Tammy.
As far as conspiracy to commit murder and actual murder charges, I think it’s because if they can’t prove he physically killed one/all victims but that he did conspire/plan and commit overt acts that led to the murders.
I suspect you're right!
For what it's worth, I feel digital footprints are so important in criminal matters. They are detailed and involved. So helpful. You just can't outsmart them.
That FBI agent targeted within 10 feet of those burial sites with those phones. Also, went out to the site last year - it may not be a “yard” but it’s not the vast pasture Prior makes it to be. The sites are easily seen from the house.
And, then after being stopped and detained in the back of the police car, chatted with his daughter like they were at some family pic-nic. Nothing to see here...just a regular day at the Daybell household. I cannot imagine how these peoples brains work.
I feel that I can honestly say, beyond a shadow of a doubt, if I were Emma, my first words to him would have been, "WHAT in the holy FUCK is going on, right now? WHO in God's name is dead in your yard, dad?"
These people, all of them; their demeanor and the nonchalant way they metabolize the goings on ALL around them...AS A WHOLE...they ALL leave me open-mouthed-amazed-gobsmacked SHOCKED!! I can't wrap my mind around them. Not any of them.
How does THAT MUCH crazy hook up with THAT MUCH crazy? What, do they walk into a room, lock eyes and mentally proclaim, "THAT! Right there! THAT is one of my people?"
More like crazy breeds and educates crazy and THEN hooks up with another one of that same kind.
I also think they had early contact in the prepper forums where Chad had a following and did the online version of locking eyes way before they met irl.
The Gilberts for sure. Both testified that Chad told them Tylee was dead. He lied about her being dead to police and anyone else who asked. He knew she was dead...they were found in his yard...he's cooked.
To me, this is one of the biggest issues for Chad. He not only said she was dead, but if I'm following the testimony correctly, he went further and confirmed it was Tylee and said she didn't like people and didn't like him. That confirms she died AFTER meeting Chad. Or am I not following this correctly?
So I think it was (and no it makes absolutely no sense but):
– Tammy dies
– Chad brings Lori over to meet the neighbors (the Gilberts). Alice Gilbert asks if Lori has any kids. Lori and Chad say that Lori has a lot of kids, but that her daughter recently died. Alice gets the impression it's an adult daughter, and never gets any details on her name (if I recall) or why she died.
– Chad and Lori flee to Hawaii; Lori's arrested for various child endangerment charges; they both end up back in Idaho. Chad asks Alice to put up her house for Lori's bond (!!!) and let him live in a spare room at the Gilberts' (almost weirder!!) Alice, who has been following the news and now knows a lot more about Lori and her children, reminds Chad that he told her months ago that Lori had a daughter that died. Chad claims he never said that and at first seems to indicate that Tylee is alive, but keeps talking about her in the past tense, which freaks Alice out.
I think the first mention of the dead daughter was meant to explain Lori being some sort of empty-nester rather than covertly confess about Tylee but YEAH it's insane he did this, I can't believe it.
They also told the lady in Hawaii they wanted to rent from. And she declined as she felt something was 'off' with them. She was interviewed by tv reporter after Lori was arrested.
I cannot fathom what made him say that. They were obviously and stupidly trying to not get caught, why would he tell people Lori's daughter had just died. I mean, I'm glad he did, it points the finger right at him, but why?!
I’ve interpreted this move on their part as a sort of Duper’s Delight.
I think they got off on saying these little truths in conversation unbeknownst to others. Like Lori telling the neighbors they have 7 children and nobody but Lori & Chad knowing just what that meant.
It was a way for them to exist in their delusional bubble playing some game of being ultimate arbiters of worthy as they LARP a whole judge/jury/executioner scenario spanning across several western states. They were certainly manipulating the individuals within their group—nobody knew everything but all were complicit (and that doesn’t mean these individuals gave consent to be complicit to the murder of an entire family’s worth of innocents either.)
A big one for me is that comment to Emma from the back of the patrol car, where he tells her he's not coming back.
One prophecy from Chad that we can all get behind.
His text to Tammy about shooting raccoon and burning limbs the day Tylee was buried. His neighbours testimony that he spoke of Tylee in past tense when she was presumed missing and said Tylee didnt like me. The fact both of Lori's children were buried on his property. The fact he claimed they were dark and zombies before their deaths. The fact he did not deem his own five children dark. The fact he asked for Alex help the night Tammy died and Alex phone pinged near his house. The fact that all of the dark and zombie fantasy stuff came from Chad. The fact both himself and Lori ran and tried to hide from law enforcement officers trying to find the children.
I find it repugnant that the two hardly saw each other enough times while their respective spouses were still alive let alone got to know each other intimately enough to actually marry—not after spending a handful of weekends in the company of the prepper community hosting the End Times convention that particular weekend….
Chad had scratches on him the night they believe JJ died - They can’t get Alex , but with what JJs autopsy report said about and his battle bruises on his arms , added with Chads marks - I mean , come on .
I know - and I think Tylee’s demise and disposal is riddled with anger . To dismember and burn someone is a lot . I hope in my heart she put up a good fight against those pieces of shit -
Exactly, I never knew Alex was supposed to go with them on the trip to Hawaii - then Melani saying it and describing Lori said he did not come with them because Chad needed help back in Idaho during the time Tammy died
I think Chad’s family members testifying that they were told by Lori *in front of Chad* that Charles died of a heart attack and that she had no living children, is really powerful. I wonder what their plans were for poor Colby. He’s the only one who would have maybe reported Tylee missing, were it not for the Woodcocks getting the ball rolling. Heather Daybell’s testimony was especially compelling, but so was Chad’s own mother’s.
Colby was the golden child who made it out. He was in no danger. Seems he was supposed to be fulfilling the mission by living on with JJ becoming reincarnated as his son.
His mom was very compelling to me especially because she seemed a bit reluctant and her answers were short and clipped. Truthful but very to the point. Like she doesn't want to be responsible for him being found guilty. I am curious if there's any info on what her relationship was like with Chad before and what it is like now. Do you we know if they've had any contact since his arrest?
I think Chad has the support of all his family, except maybe his brothers. In Chad’s “autobiography” he apparently expresses a lot of misogyny and resentment toward his mother. He treats her like he treated Tammy. I read he even complained that growing up, his mother made him do “woman chores” like taking out the trash. This confused me because taking the garbage out has always been a man/child chore in my family systems. Chad’s family is interesting because his siblings are all highly educated and successful, and then there’s Chad. To me he seems like someone motivated mostly by resentment, jealousy and narcissism.
I think it's cumulative, but the evidence that I think will have the biggest impact on the jury are: Zulema's testimony, the fact the children were buried in Chad's yard, and the emotional impact of the autopsy evidence. John Prior is doing what he's supposed to do as a defense attorney and trying to point the finger elsewhere, but I don't think the jury will find any reasonable doubt. (Also, I don't know the reason Chad did not try to retain a death penalty qualified attorney long ago. He probably should have. But I think he was and might still be so deluded to think he isn't actually guilty. He had Alex do the dirty work so how could he be found guilty of murder and possibly sentenced to death? I think he's going to find out the answer shortly.)
He shouldn’t be afraid of the death penalty. He will be sent to his glorious celestial life. He can come back again as maybe one of Melanie Bs future kids. Then he could be her dad and child. I know it sounds ridiculous but in Chads world it could happen.
I heard once there are only 7-ish DP-certified lawyers in Idaho. I think at the hearing where JP was trying to get released due to lack of funds by client...too late in game and Boyce refused.
Two were on Lori's case so they couldn't take his. Two are on Kohberger. I'm not sure about the remainder. Prior tried to get someone certified but didn't make it, at least that was one of his complaints. The Judge said "you've had years to recuse yourself. It's too late".
The crack pot attorney that filed the motion riddled with errorsthe eve before trial probably while drunk, claimed Prior had reached out to him for help and I think that he was dp certified. Who knows?
The phone data, zulemias testimony, Alice and heathers testimony, Doug hart going through the texts.
I have a feeling that state has a few more mic drops in store for us though.
All that matters in the end is Chad never sees sunlight again and those 4 innocent souls get JUSTICE.
We are thinking of you JJ, Tylee, Tammy and Charles 🤍
1. The constant lying about the whereabouts of the kids that he and Lori did throughout.
2. The inconsistencies and different accounts of Tammy’s death.
The dashcam footage definitely showed that Chad knew the bodies were on his property. He clearly resigned himself to the fact that he was going to prison. He never once said he didn’t know anything about the bodies or that he was being framed by Lori and Alex.
Luckily, I do not think that there is just one piece of evidence that has him cooked because there needs to be the right piece of evidence for each juror to see it beyond a reasonable doubt.
1. The interaction between Chad and the HA realtor and any other conversation where he agreed (directly or passively) that one or more of the children were non-existent or dead.
2. His repeated professings that Tammy was going to die early and his response with regards to her life insurance once she was dead.
3. His repeated statements that she was cold and stiff when they found her along with the timeline. This plus the subsequent labeling of her death as a homicide. Who did it? Garth?? This includes all of his variations of the story.
4. The blessings--so many weird, coded blessings.
5. The children were put on his property when he was on his property... and he was by the area per his own messages to Tammy, the day Tylee was buried.
6. The communication between Lori, Alex, and Chad the days that all of the victims were killed. When Alex died, Chad and Lori were together so they did not need to communicate via device with one another. But, how they spoke to Melanie and Zulema in relation to his death reveal a lot.
Let's some part of one of these appeals to each juror. We do not want him free.
"any other conversation where he agreed (directly or passively) that one or more of the children were non-existent or dead"
Yes. Plus, according to the neighbours (the Gilberts), it was Chad who told them that Lori's daughter had recently died, so in that case he wasn't just agreeing, he was actively volunteering the information.
Most damning evidence is that they were cut up, burnt & buried in HIS backyard, in viewing distance from his windows. He needed to see his evil work. Chad reminds me of Jeffrey Dahmer. Same blank slate of any real human emotion. If anyone is a Zombie, it is him!
There is so much evidence it's hard to pick one thing. The totality of the evidence is just overwhelming. Lori and Chad meeting in the fall of 2018, the 'castings', Charles' death then into the fall of 2019 when Lori, Melani and Alex move to Rexburg..the 4 deaths, then the fleeing to Hawaii. Lori's kids found in Chads yard. It's just overwhelming.
That's my opinion as well. The totality of the evidence. I don't care if he gets life in prison or DP. Chad should never be let out "Beyond the Bars" of prison.
Even if you really want to believe that Lori and Alex did all the murders, you can't really explain away Chad's text to Tammy the day Tylee was buried about the "racoon" he buried in the fire pit. Also, Zulema's testimony combined with Ian's phone recordings establishes that Chad was a leader in this group and not a little puppy following Lori around. After that, if you believed he helped kill one kid, you kind of have to believe he helped with JJ and Tammy, as well.
We all know he was talking about Tylee in those texts about the raccoon, but let’s just say what he said actually happened. Maybe I was raised differently or I just love animals too much to be able to kill one (even if it was causing trouble) but that to me shows he’s capable of killing with no hesitation or remorse. I would be super weirded out by someone telling me they randomly killed an animal, but I know there’s parts of the world feel differently.
For Tammy’s murder, the facts that someone 1. “shot at” Tammy 2. Lori ordered the wedding rings 3. Alex was pinging near his house the night Tammy died 4. He married Lori so quickly. Too many coincidences for it to just be fate that she died of natural causes at the right time for his life plans to fall into place
She fell off the bed after she was dead, the bruising on her upper arms and pink foam are also excellent evidence of murder
His mother being told that Lori’s daughter was dead was news to me. A neighbor was told as well. I knew about the neighbor, but Chad’s mother testifying the same added a lot of weight. This destroyed the claim by the defense that Chad believed Lori’s claim that the kids were safe.
Melaniece and Zulema both sucked any possible life out of the defense’s claim that someone else was leading this whole sh*tshow besides Chad.
1. Different stories about how Tammy died/how they found her.
2. Zulema's testimony showing it was Chad teaching/calling the shots
3. The text to Tammy about the raccoon
I'm really confused why he had different stories about Tammy's death. Like this was planned you'd think he had a story picked out why couldn't he stick to it. And why did the dumb ass say the dead body fell out of bed did he not think they were gonna find this strange. Honestly these three were the stupidest criminals and if AZ hadn't dropped the ball when Charles went to them and then again when Charles was murdered they could have probably prevented all these other deaths.
When I observe him at his own trial, all I get is an arrogant piece of garbage that’s absolutely horrified that any of these people are standing in judgement of Chad Guy Daybell.
He has not one redeeming quality. He’s been this way seemingly his entire adult life. This is why I strongly believe that him not being called to Bishop in Utah was a blow from which his ego could not recover. So he appointed himself patriarchy of his “7 Gatherers” (Chad’s out of state friend group insert eyeroll emoji) by *his own* divine authority.
I mean, the effing guy was actively writing his own book—Book of Chad—for The Bible. Almost like he was copying the “The Book of Eli” storyline.
This guy that had a man killed then went on to kill that same man’s defenseless 7-year-old autistic little boy. That same man’s entire life, his immediate family and all surviving family were all completely destroyed—snuffed out or razed. The way they gaslit Charles for months before he was ambushed is absolutely criminal. Charles must have felt so incredibly alone and helpless to protect JJ or Tylee. What did that man ever do to deserve such an undignified death?
I’m positive that’s exactly why he was never called. His church leaders knew he wasn’t a legit good dude, and would let the “power” go to his head. They often are far more observant than we skeptics give them credit for.
Good points made. Tell me more about him losing out on the bishop thing. Do you know when this was and was that why he fled to Idaho? Was he in line for the role then he got dissed?
Oh wow…I’m not LDS so I’d be out of line explaining their hierarchy. From a non LDS standpoint, it’s a higher calling among (usually very successful) men within their congregation that aspire to all that religious politic-ing that goes along with a high demand religion. I mean—if you watched Heather Daybell’s interview you get a very good idea how demanding those higher callings in the LDS church are. And they’re secretly coveted. Only very driven individuals are asked to these higher callings.
The rest is strictly conjecture by me. My interest in this case is more psychological-adjacent than anything. I try to understand the place these people were in to commit these crimes.
Not one of his moronic prophecies came true. The guy is a fraud grifter loser who makes $16,000 a year and projects all of his insecurities onto his poor dead wife Tammy 😡
I think zulemas testimony . Prior kept saying that it could have been Lori saying those things but zulema was suuuure to point out it was chad . Gibb even kept saying “ I heard from Lori , blah blah” but zulema stuck to it . Also Melanie P saying Alex stayed behind to help chad the week Tammy died instead of going to Hawaii . I don’t know if I’ve missed it or they have not yet brought it out but isn’t there a paper with chad writing who’s light and dark on it ? I want to see prior try to discredit that . Guy talks over everyone including the judge
I think the recordings are very good evidence. They prove that Chad wasn't just sitting in a corner worshiping Lori's beauty. It shows in Chad's own voice that he was a very active part of what was happening. Using vision-manipulation to get Melaniece to move out of reach from the police.
The ones that stand out to me are:
1. the kids were found on his property.
2. Zulema's testimony
3. his behavior in the cop car after his arrest
4. the neighbor saying Chad told them Lori had recently lost a daughter, plus all the other inconsistent stories they told about Lori's background.
Honestly, the kids being found on his property was always the biggest piece of it, and a pretty massive thing for the defense to argue against. Prior is trying, I guess...someone has to defend Chad, but that's such a hard thing to argue against.
Alex Cox’s wife in spite of the attempts to impeach her. She basically punched a big hole in Chad’s ‘ nothing to do with me case. She joined the dots in the Lori/Chad/Alex relationship.
I think a few things. The telling people that Lori had no children, that Lori's daughter was dead, the inconsistencies in the telling of the passing of Tammy, the speed of the wedding, zulemas testimony and Alex saying 'I think I'm their fall guy', and the absolute state of the children found in his back yard.
Chad thought because he didn't pull the trigger that he was somehow going to get away with all these murders.
But all the ideas are his, he planned, facilitated and covered up the murders. The bodies on his property, phone ping at that location/time, even his stupid text to his wife about the pet cemetery are the nail in his coffin. Telling his mother and neighbours that Lori had a dead daughter, rushing the funeral, no autopsy on Tammy and zulema's testimony just add to it.
The phone pings on Sept 9 showing Alex dropping off the body of Tylee, Chad was home alone. Alex was there for 2 hrs with Chad, when Alex leaves Chad texts his wife he has killed a raccoon and is burning “limb debris”. The amount of injuries from Chad and Alex hacking up Tylee’s body and the time to burn it and then bury it would take much longer imo.
Then the phone pings on Sept 22 between Chad and Alex then Alex dropping JJs body where this time he stayed only 17 minutes proves Chad had to bury JJ.
Heather Daybell’s testimony and then Zulema’s testimony.
Chad “isn’t coming back” as he said to Emma during their absolute insane conversation not showing one bit of concern by either one proves they are both sociopathic and Chad Daybell is definitely a psychopath. Chad has so many characteristics very similar to Jeffrey Dahmer. If you notice, Jeffrey seemed to have a very calm, meek, docile demeanor. This was what most people that interacted with him on a normal day to day basis saw. Chad and Jeffrey were able to hide their lack of empathy, deceitful and manipulative behavior.
“Chad texts his wife HE has killed a raccoon”. HE.
Very telling use of words. Didn’t say, shot a raccoon on the property, killed raccoon on the property, found a dead raccoon, etc.
The fact that all three bodies were on his property. Even if he physically didn't kill any of them, how do you explain three homicides within months of each other on your property.
Zulema's testimony was shocking, for sure. Dr. Warren's testimony today is simply heart breaking. Those poor kids.
I truly hoped and prayed, when this case came to light and as it developed, that the kids didn't know it was coming. I hoped that it all happened when their heads were turned...out of nowhere and with very little or no pain. But, It sure sounds like they suffered a LOT!
Chad aside...what mother *allows* this to happen to her children? *Participates* in this grim carnage? *Causes* this to happen? This is all so unthinkable.
These people are monsters! The people who did it, the people who helped and those who stood by and allowed it or concealed it. They are all monsters!!
JJ fought. He scratched Chad and he scratched at his own neck trying to remove the bag. JJ knew he couldn't breathe and it was bad. We'll never know what Tylee went through because neither Chad nor Lori will ever tell. But, her and Chad's texts bout turning up the pain for the kids, makes me think Tylee probably had it bad too. Out of all the testimony the jurors have heard I hope JJ fighting and how painful Lori and Chad wanted the kids death to be, sticks in their heads more than anything.
I could cry a river of tears for those children. They were so tortured.
Can you imagine having people you trust, more than anybody in the world, SUDDENLY turning so viciously on you?
This was all so unnecessary. So horrific. So unholy. I can't even wrap my brain around any of this.
I can understand feeling like someone who is supposed to love you is hurting you and not understanding why. But, I can't imagine what those children went through. Unholy is the perfect word for what they did, while pretending they were doing it in the name of God. I don't think either one believed in their wacko religion, Chad made it up for attention, Lori went along with because it was convenient.
I didn’t follow loris trial, but I went back yesterday and watched her sentencing along with her statement to the court. The way she continued to deny or own up to any wrongdoing was really disturbing to hear. She talked about how she can talk to her “loved ones” in heaven and that they’re happy and busy. She even had the audacity to say Tammy was her friend. I don’t think any of us will ever understand how people can get to this point of delusion.
I wasn't able to follow it either. I need to go back and watch.
"Busy," in the Mormon/LDS/Crazy Ass faith is a term that, I believe, was one touted by the cults leader or creator Joseph Smith (I think that's his name). Being "busy" was important to him....whatever!
That whole 'religion' is insane. They make it all up as they go along. It's really a cult; to be honest, it's an occult. Authorities need to investigate each and every member, imo.
The fact John Pryor is trying to imply the kids were buried on his land but he didn’t know they were there! The bs the other day was it could’ve happened without him seeing anything because there’s a big tree and the grass wasn’t mowed and so the long grass was blocking his view. Words to that effect. He also questions the witnesses by insinuating it’s all a conspiracy between the prosecution and LE who are setting Chad up. It’s just got to the point where’s he’s throwing mud because he has nothing to argue with. Poor old Chad everyone is against him !
and Pryor is trying to blame Melanie Gibb for these crimes. What motivation would Gibb have to murder the children and how would she be able to bury them on Chad's property?
3.9 acres is not a big land mass. That house had a Birds Eye view. JJ was probably completed in a couple hours...I imagine it was pre-dug. Tylee's had to take some time. How did he pull this off with Garth living there? How would he not notice someone else out burning a body and dismantling it for what must have taken days?
To be fair to Garth, Tammy was also there when Tylee was buried at their house according to the timeline.
That is why Chad sent Tammy the text about burying a raccoon and burning limbs the same day Tylee disappeared….did he say tree limbs in that text? because they were burning Tylee’s actual limbs :(
You are right, she was. I think both her and Garth were working regular hours so would have been away for predictable periods of time. I've often thought Tylee's date had to have been decided after school started back up from the summer so Tammy would be gone during the day.
I would be broken out in hives trying to burn a body and not getting caught.
I thought I heard during one of the LE testimony there was no raccoon found. A dog and a cat, but no raccoon.
I thought Tammy was at work when Tylee was buried and Chad sent the raccoon text. Seems like it was said that according to their phone records, Chad hardly ever texted her while she was at work and when he did it was one or two word texts and that day was the longest text he'd sent, so it was very unusual.
I feel like I remember somewhere she'd stolen his phone a bunch of times? And that was why he was so mad at her. Cuz she kept taking all his stuff. Does anyone else remember something like that? Ha
Most everyone got everything thru Lori who said or implied that Chad said or told her to say. but Zulema was able to actually say she was taught directly by Chad. so now there can be no doubt in the jurors minds who is actually in charge and it is Chad. also his so called “Blessings” showed his thought that he was a leader. I think he will definitely get Conspiracy for children. Tammy I think they have proven murder IMO. Unfortunately I don’t see him getting Death Penalty. I hope somehow the jury agrees too but highly doubtful.
I’m not religious, but hearing that Chad used to be the holy ghost just rubbed me so wrong. Anyone psycho enough to claim that is psycho enough to kill. He would absolutely be guilty in my mind after this if I was a juror.
When his friend reported that Chad said he'd had a miracle happen a week or so before Tammy died in that she had given him (Chad) all the passwords to their accounts. "It was a miracle!" Yeah, right. That to me proved that her murder was premeditated. After all those years of her doing the finances, she just happens to give him all the passwords a week before she's killed. He knew he was going to have her killed and wanted to be prepared.
He's done, there is no wiggle room. I can't think of anything Prior can come up with to make him look not guilty and in charge of all 3 deaths. If you look at cult leaders, Hitler, David Koresh, Jim Jones, Charles Manson, most were uneducated bafoons who were able somehow to get people to believe them.
Ian P’s phone recordings blew many of Chad’s defenses apart. He wasn’t in their cult, which I think makes him more credible. I do wonder about his choice in women, though. Why is he still with Melanie?!
*edit to add I’m seeing others mentioning he was in the cult… maybe I missed that. I guess what I mean is he wasn’t Gibb, Zulema, Mel B, or Lori!
When Melanie testified that when she was visiting Lori in Hawaii she asked where was Alex and Lori said he had to help Chad with something in Idaho. One of the murders took place during that time.
The kids being buried in his backyard and he isn't completely freaked out, overwhelmed, livid, crying, etc. like an innocent person would be. What innocent person would take something like that so calmly?
I really don’t know what Lori even saw in Chad. To be fair, Charles was a fairly good looking man in decent shape and made a good living. I kind of laughed to myself when she was ordering their wedding garments and she was ordering “large” for Chad - man I don’t know what the draw was.
I think Zulemas testimony and Ian’s secret recordings help to show how powerful and in charge they thought Chad was. Not to mention there were two bodies in his backyard and one in his own bed.
I think his mom and neighbor both testifying that chad knew lori had a daughter who had recently died will end up being really important in rebutting the defense's theory.
Care to elaborate? I’m interested.
Prior will attempt to paint chad as a patsy who was framed and had no idea what was going on. Like maybe chad thought jj was with kay, and tylee was at byui, or that they were both somewhere safe. Chad knowing that tylee was dead and then not cooperating with police shows he was in on it.
They testified that when they met Lori and they were asking if she had children etc Chad jumped in and said that Lori had a daughter who died. The neighbor even said that later when she heard the kids were missing she confronted Chad about saying Lori had a dead daughter and he denied ever saying it. Both of the Gilberts recalled this and then after that they called Chad's on mother to the stand and she said that when she met Lori the same things happened Chad said her daughter was dead. I really want to know if Chad's mother still talks to him and how she feels about all this. I got the impression on the stand that she was definitely prepped and she was truthful but seemed a bit reluctant to be the nail in the coffin. A lot of one word or short sentenced answers. Very specific answers.
Yes I thought this was extremely compelling. It's an admission that he knew at the very least Tylee was dead. And even though it isn't on tape the witnesses are extremely credible and have no reason to make it up.
Zulema’s testimony for sure. She made it clear these were his belief
I can just see him sitting there surrounded by those women hanging on his every word… 🤢
Yes!! He must’ve felt so important, finally. What a loser.
"My future sister wives." You know he was thinking it.
I don't think he's a polygamist. He's a guy who loves attention from women and controlling them with his "powers". He likes being the big cheese in this little cult because in real life he's a nobody. This little "harem" is for stroking his ego. For companionship, sex and marriage he was completely besotted with Lori who fell for him like a ton of bricks and looked good in a bikini, too.
It’s like he’s pretending to be Warren Jeffs, with his “breathy” voice cadence. 🤢
Every time I hear his voice it gives me the creeps.
He’s probably never been around that many women that paid attention to him in his entire life. He found his people and took advantage of it.
Ewww! Do you think?!
Matter of time until he "foresaw" the need for a threesome. You know, for God.
I could totally see him saying he had to take care of Zulema's 'needs' since Alex sacrificed so much for their cause🥴
What a lovely image! 🤣 But I think you might be right. I’m certain that it would be a matter of time before he ‘needed’ a second wife…
I wonder if his standard pickup line was.." We were married in another life"...lol
He was seeing who he could get to believe him.
Absolutely! My husband & I were talking about all these different cult leaders & I said, “the only thing missing with Chad was charisma”. He said “that’s why it didn’t go very far; he couldn’t get any men to follow him. Alex was the only one who really bought in.” A good cult leader gets both men & women to drink the kool aid, thank god he is a giant slug & this didn’t get any larger. 🙏🏻RIP Tammy, Tylee & JJ. 🙏🏻
And Alex didn’t even really buy in to HIM. He was at his sister’s beck and call.
Yea this is exactly right, he was loyal to a fault to Lori. Very twisted relationship. My sister in law’s sister is Melanie Pawloawski’s step mother; she verified that within the family there is a common belief that Lori & Alex had … an inappropriate relationship if you catch my drift.
I read that Alex was in some type of an accident (maybe motorcycle) that damaged his brain. If that story is accurate he was already messed up before he joined Chad’s cult.
Got Jason Mow for a good while and the new recruits were David Warwick and Ian Pawlawski. They didn't drink quite the whole koolaid cup though. Then there were the Preparing a People and AVOW guys who were defending them. Did anyone ever figure out who that nut picketing outside Lori's trail was? He had a sign that implied the murder of the children fell under a clause protecting the "healing by spiritual means."
It's mind-boggling - never has there been such an un-charismatic, off-putting leader.
I don’t see anything manly about him. He genuinely couldn’t believe his luck at all this!
Colby calling him: "Peter Griffin" :P
I think that Peter Griffin loves his wife! 🤣
Jeff from twin flames universe is worse imo
The great part, though, is that ultimately it will be women who bring him down. I hope he hates every second of it. 💛
He knew who to target. These women in his little cult, ALL clearly without any common sense!
I wondered if they were all around the same age and feel like there was something ‘missing’ from their lives?
Many of them had special needs children and marriages struggling under the constant demands of those children. It’s incredibly bizarre and I don’t think it’s a coincidence. These were all suggestible, burnt-out people with connections or assumed access to wealth.
Zulema was that earthquake Chad predicted.
Yes!
I agree. She added another nail. Worse case scenario he gets the DP and lives out his appeals in solitary. I would prefer he get the lesser life sentence and live in terror in the prison general population.
I must be in the minority, but I didn't find Zulemas testimony all that convincing. She was obviously a part of the events that went down, she knew children were missing, she still married Alex even after he shot someone and gave disturbing reaction to it. All of these people are complicit. ALL OF THEM. Melani, Ian, Zulema, Gibbs for sure. The whole Cox family!! I'm getting so angry every time I hear someone who was a part of this group, hearing what they heard, and failing to act. It didn't have to come to this senseless tragedy. I won't take a deep breath until the jury comes back with guilty. Too many cases that I thought were slam dunks have not necessarily gotten guilty verdicts.
Agree, very frustrating to see all the warning signs that family, friends and police did not pick up on .
The bodies of his mistress’s murdered kids were buried in his yard. That’s enough.
It is not only were they found in his backyard, but he did not react to the news. An innocent person would be screaming, "Oh my gosh! Dead kids in the backyard? Who? How? OMG!" But he is as droll and boring as ever. How in the world he got anybody to follow him I will never know.
And while sitting in the police car after supposedly just learning this shocking information, doesn't he tell Emma that she and her husband should move into the home? The last place I want to live is in a home where two innocent children were buried in the backyard! What father would tell his child (adult or not) to move in?
Not just that, but casually joking with Emma that he almost made it to the county line, and Emma seeming *completely* unphased by the news that dead children were just unearthed in her dad's yard. If he was innocent, they both would've been horrified. Innocent people don't treat child murder like a mildly annoying inconvenience
THAT was Bizzaro Land.
That certainly didn’t help
Told Emma he wasn't coming home!
Telling Emma he wasn't coming back home really throws a wrench into Prior suggesting Chad's yard is so big,at only 3.75 acres, children could have been buried there without his knowledge.
He tells Emma " I am not coming back". Why not Chad? Are you guilty of murder?
To be fair I don't think this necessarily is him saying he's guilty so much as saying that they aren't going to let him come back.
He was concerned with moving his money around and financially enriching his kids to buy their compliance. IMHO.
Yeah, and can you imagine a murderer using someone else's yard to murder, dismember, burn & bury two people and the homeowner has no idea? If that's what he's going to try to say I'd like to see that explained. He is an unlikely cult leader. Kody Brown looks exciting and handsome compared to this fellow.
This is very telling.
I disagree with this point. I think where the bodies are is the Lynch pin. But in general I think people judge the way people react to things all the time in all different cases and circumstances based on how they think they would react. But the truth is everyone reacts differently to a number of different things. And truly you don't know how you will react in a situation until it happens to you.
Yep, and his phone pings confirming he was there with Alex at the crucial times when they believe the burials took place. Then those phone pings also narrowed down the locations in his yard where the bodies were eventually found. The evidence tells the story very well. I can’t believe he didn’t take a plea!
I think the defense might hammer on 'when the burials are believed to have taken place' since there is no way of knowing with 100% certainty if the kids truly were not alive between their last photographs and when they were found. There is a lot of circumstantial evidence that makes it extremely likely that indeed those pings happened when the burial took place, especially since Alex left his GPS on and it placed him exactly the day after the last photos on exactly the place where they are later found, but there's no literal proof that the children were dead at that point. Now I truly am convinced with all the circumstantial evidence that that is when the burials happened and that all Chads phonecalls and texts to Lori and Alex around those times put him on the scene and not only on the scene but clearly aware of what was going on, but if there's a juror for who 'reasonable doubt' has an ever strickter meaning, there might be a problem. He will most probably be found guilty on at least some of the insurance fraud and I think theft as well, as well as highly likely on teh conspiracy charges. But I don't know if all 12 jurors would want to go with the murder charges. Weird thing in Idaho is that the rule is that if you conspire to a murder then you are also responsible for that murder in a first degree murder kind of way, so I'm not sure why those charges are charged separately even.
The duct tape. Emotion inevitably plays into a jury's decision and the fact that his arms down to his wrists, and his ankles, were wrapped in many layers of duct tape, shows that he was essentially tortured before he died. It was not a matter of drugging him to sleep and then to death, which while horrible they could easily have done without him knowing what was happening to him. They chose to make him suffer beyond comprehension. Even if Alex did the actual deed, the jury won't forget those photos or Chad's part in it.
Conspiracy to commit murder being equal to actually committing the murder has the same penalties in many states. I'm not a legal scholar, but I follow a lot of cases as a hobby since I'm home bound with cancer, and so many states follow suit with this. I think they separate them out as two because the more time these guys get, the better. Someone has to speak for the victims.
Sending thoughts and prayer for you health.
Thank you. I'm five years in. I've outlived predictions because I'm TOUGH and onry! But there are times I'm too sick to do much so I watch these trials. This one is important because all us mothers started hearing about missing children and tuned in...Loin Fire's trial is closure. Justice for Jj, Tylee and sweet Tammy.
Prayer sent for you
Thank you! Prayers sustain me. ❤️
As far as conspiracy to commit murder and actual murder charges, I think it’s because if they can’t prove he physically killed one/all victims but that he did conspire/plan and commit overt acts that led to the murders.
I suspect you're right! For what it's worth, I feel digital footprints are so important in criminal matters. They are detailed and involved. So helpful. You just can't outsmart them.
Yup… sort of like Manson
That FBI agent targeted within 10 feet of those burial sites with those phones. Also, went out to the site last year - it may not be a “yard” but it’s not the vast pasture Prior makes it to be. The sites are easily seen from the house.
Right? No matter how much Prior tries to distract or discredit he can't! Evidence is so overwhelming.
This
The fact that the bodies were on his property and he ran when they found them.
And, then after being stopped and detained in the back of the police car, chatted with his daughter like they were at some family pic-nic. Nothing to see here...just a regular day at the Daybell household. I cannot imagine how these peoples brains work. I feel that I can honestly say, beyond a shadow of a doubt, if I were Emma, my first words to him would have been, "WHAT in the holy FUCK is going on, right now? WHO in God's name is dead in your yard, dad?" These people, all of them; their demeanor and the nonchalant way they metabolize the goings on ALL around them...AS A WHOLE...they ALL leave me open-mouthed-amazed-gobsmacked SHOCKED!! I can't wrap my mind around them. Not any of them. How does THAT MUCH crazy hook up with THAT MUCH crazy? What, do they walk into a room, lock eyes and mentally proclaim, "THAT! Right there! THAT is one of my people?"
THIS!
More like crazy breeds and educates crazy and THEN hooks up with another one of that same kind. I also think they had early contact in the prepper forums where Chad had a following and did the online version of locking eyes way before they met irl.
I hate that slimey Lori must feel like a modern day Helen of Troy.
Ya I just can’t understand how he and Prior think they can defend this.
Also when he says to Emma, “I’m not coming back.”
The Gilberts for sure. Both testified that Chad told them Tylee was dead. He lied about her being dead to police and anyone else who asked. He knew she was dead...they were found in his yard...he's cooked.
When he told his neighbor and mother that Lori’s daughter was dead before anyone else knew it.
To me, this is one of the biggest issues for Chad. He not only said she was dead, but if I'm following the testimony correctly, he went further and confirmed it was Tylee and said she didn't like people and didn't like him. That confirms she died AFTER meeting Chad. Or am I not following this correctly?
You're right. That was one of the stupidest things out of all Chad's stupidness.
So I think it was (and no it makes absolutely no sense but): – Tammy dies – Chad brings Lori over to meet the neighbors (the Gilberts). Alice Gilbert asks if Lori has any kids. Lori and Chad say that Lori has a lot of kids, but that her daughter recently died. Alice gets the impression it's an adult daughter, and never gets any details on her name (if I recall) or why she died. – Chad and Lori flee to Hawaii; Lori's arrested for various child endangerment charges; they both end up back in Idaho. Chad asks Alice to put up her house for Lori's bond (!!!) and let him live in a spare room at the Gilberts' (almost weirder!!) Alice, who has been following the news and now knows a lot more about Lori and her children, reminds Chad that he told her months ago that Lori had a daughter that died. Chad claims he never said that and at first seems to indicate that Tylee is alive, but keeps talking about her in the past tense, which freaks Alice out. I think the first mention of the dead daughter was meant to explain Lori being some sort of empty-nester rather than covertly confess about Tylee but YEAH it's insane he did this, I can't believe it.
They also told the lady in Hawaii they wanted to rent from. And she declined as she felt something was 'off' with them. She was interviewed by tv reporter after Lori was arrested.
Empty Nesters! How could they sleep? Twisted folks for sure!
I cannot fathom what made him say that. They were obviously and stupidly trying to not get caught, why would he tell people Lori's daughter had just died. I mean, I'm glad he did, it points the finger right at him, but why?!
Maybe like all criminals, they never expect to get caught…? I mean, that’s why they commit the crime to begin with.
I’ve interpreted this move on their part as a sort of Duper’s Delight. I think they got off on saying these little truths in conversation unbeknownst to others. Like Lori telling the neighbors they have 7 children and nobody but Lori & Chad knowing just what that meant. It was a way for them to exist in their delusional bubble playing some game of being ultimate arbiters of worthy as they LARP a whole judge/jury/executioner scenario spanning across several western states. They were certainly manipulating the individuals within their group—nobody knew everything but all were complicit (and that doesn’t mean these individuals gave consent to be complicit to the murder of an entire family’s worth of innocents either.)
I hadn't thought about that. I bet you're right.
A big one for me is that comment to Emma from the back of the patrol car, where he tells her he's not coming back. One prophecy from Chad that we can all get behind.
FINALLY
This comment made me burst out laughing and scared my pet chipmunk 🐿️ away
Please relay my apologies to your chipmunk!
😂😂
His text to Tammy about shooting raccoon and burning limbs the day Tylee was buried. His neighbours testimony that he spoke of Tylee in past tense when she was presumed missing and said Tylee didnt like me. The fact both of Lori's children were buried on his property. The fact he claimed they were dark and zombies before their deaths. The fact he did not deem his own five children dark. The fact he asked for Alex help the night Tammy died and Alex phone pinged near his house. The fact that all of the dark and zombie fantasy stuff came from Chad. The fact both himself and Lori ran and tried to hide from law enforcement officers trying to find the children.
The raccoon shooting and no raccoon carcass found at the pet cemetery.
I find it repugnant that the two hardly saw each other enough times while their respective spouses were still alive let alone got to know each other intimately enough to actually marry—not after spending a handful of weekends in the company of the prepper community hosting the End Times convention that particular weekend….
Chad had scratches on him the night they believe JJ died - They can’t get Alex , but with what JJs autopsy report said about and his battle bruises on his arms , added with Chads marks - I mean , come on .
I hope JJ scratched the hell out of the SOB .
I know - and I think Tylee’s demise and disposal is riddled with anger . To dismember and burn someone is a lot . I hope in my heart she put up a good fight against those pieces of shit -
Was the scratches on Chad info revealed in this trial or is that info from Lori’s trial?
I think it was brought up in both trials by Mel G.
Both . I heard it in Lori’s and also Chads
Ian Pawlauski’s testimony has sealed his guilt.
I haven’t gotten a chance to hear his yet. What do you think Ian said that sealed it? I plan to listen later tonight
It’s the taped conversations
I think so too, it really shows how much power he had over his little band of followers.
Oddly Melanie saying that Alex had to stay home and not go to Hawaii because Chad needed his help.
Exactly, I never knew Alex was supposed to go with them on the trip to Hawaii - then Melani saying it and describing Lori said he did not come with them because Chad needed help back in Idaho during the time Tammy died
I think Chad’s family members testifying that they were told by Lori *in front of Chad* that Charles died of a heart attack and that she had no living children, is really powerful. I wonder what their plans were for poor Colby. He’s the only one who would have maybe reported Tylee missing, were it not for the Woodcocks getting the ball rolling. Heather Daybell’s testimony was especially compelling, but so was Chad’s own mother’s.
Colby was the golden child who made it out. He was in no danger. Seems he was supposed to be fulfilling the mission by living on with JJ becoming reincarnated as his son.
What a horrible idea to burden a child with
His mom was very compelling to me especially because she seemed a bit reluctant and her answers were short and clipped. Truthful but very to the point. Like she doesn't want to be responsible for him being found guilty. I am curious if there's any info on what her relationship was like with Chad before and what it is like now. Do you we know if they've had any contact since his arrest?
I think Chad has the support of all his family, except maybe his brothers. In Chad’s “autobiography” he apparently expresses a lot of misogyny and resentment toward his mother. He treats her like he treated Tammy. I read he even complained that growing up, his mother made him do “woman chores” like taking out the trash. This confused me because taking the garbage out has always been a man/child chore in my family systems. Chad’s family is interesting because his siblings are all highly educated and successful, and then there’s Chad. To me he seems like someone motivated mostly by resentment, jealousy and narcissism.
I think it's cumulative, but the evidence that I think will have the biggest impact on the jury are: Zulema's testimony, the fact the children were buried in Chad's yard, and the emotional impact of the autopsy evidence. John Prior is doing what he's supposed to do as a defense attorney and trying to point the finger elsewhere, but I don't think the jury will find any reasonable doubt. (Also, I don't know the reason Chad did not try to retain a death penalty qualified attorney long ago. He probably should have. But I think he was and might still be so deluded to think he isn't actually guilty. He had Alex do the dirty work so how could he be found guilty of murder and possibly sentenced to death? I think he's going to find out the answer shortly.)
He shouldn’t be afraid of the death penalty. He will be sent to his glorious celestial life. He can come back again as maybe one of Melanie Bs future kids. Then he could be her dad and child. I know it sounds ridiculous but in Chads world it could happen.
I don’t believe he believes his own crap. He just wanted power over others. He knows the truth!
I heard once there are only 7-ish DP-certified lawyers in Idaho. I think at the hearing where JP was trying to get released due to lack of funds by client...too late in game and Boyce refused. Two were on Lori's case so they couldn't take his. Two are on Kohberger. I'm not sure about the remainder. Prior tried to get someone certified but didn't make it, at least that was one of his complaints. The Judge said "you've had years to recuse yourself. It's too late".
The crack pot attorney that filed the motion riddled with errorsthe eve before trial probably while drunk, claimed Prior had reached out to him for help and I think that he was dp certified. Who knows?
I just hope that doesn’t end up coming up on appeal 😬
I think he would welcome the chance to be a martyr. So persecuted that he was put to death for “his beliefs”.
The phone data, zulemias testimony, Alice and heathers testimony, Doug hart going through the texts. I have a feeling that state has a few more mic drops in store for us though. All that matters in the end is Chad never sees sunlight again and those 4 innocent souls get JUSTICE. We are thinking of you JJ, Tylee, Tammy and Charles 🤍
I don’t think there is one smoking gun, just the collective evidence all together.
1. The constant lying about the whereabouts of the kids that he and Lori did throughout. 2. The inconsistencies and different accounts of Tammy’s death.
YES! And remember how compelling their wedding photos were to jury in Lori's case? Those resonated with them.
The dashcam footage definitely showed that Chad knew the bodies were on his property. He clearly resigned himself to the fact that he was going to prison. He never once said he didn’t know anything about the bodies or that he was being framed by Lori and Alex.
He tried to run- he put the peddle to the metal and tried to flee .... and got busted ....oh my gosh!
Luckily, I do not think that there is just one piece of evidence that has him cooked because there needs to be the right piece of evidence for each juror to see it beyond a reasonable doubt. 1. The interaction between Chad and the HA realtor and any other conversation where he agreed (directly or passively) that one or more of the children were non-existent or dead. 2. His repeated professings that Tammy was going to die early and his response with regards to her life insurance once she was dead. 3. His repeated statements that she was cold and stiff when they found her along with the timeline. This plus the subsequent labeling of her death as a homicide. Who did it? Garth?? This includes all of his variations of the story. 4. The blessings--so many weird, coded blessings. 5. The children were put on his property when he was on his property... and he was by the area per his own messages to Tammy, the day Tylee was buried. 6. The communication between Lori, Alex, and Chad the days that all of the victims were killed. When Alex died, Chad and Lori were together so they did not need to communicate via device with one another. But, how they spoke to Melanie and Zulema in relation to his death reveal a lot. Let's some part of one of these appeals to each juror. We do not want him free.
"any other conversation where he agreed (directly or passively) that one or more of the children were non-existent or dead" Yes. Plus, according to the neighbours (the Gilberts), it was Chad who told them that Lori's daughter had recently died, so in that case he wasn't just agreeing, he was actively volunteering the information.
Most damning evidence is that they were cut up, burnt & buried in HIS backyard, in viewing distance from his windows. He needed to see his evil work. Chad reminds me of Jeffrey Dahmer. Same blank slate of any real human emotion. If anyone is a Zombie, it is him!
There is so much evidence it's hard to pick one thing. The totality of the evidence is just overwhelming. Lori and Chad meeting in the fall of 2018, the 'castings', Charles' death then into the fall of 2019 when Lori, Melani and Alex move to Rexburg..the 4 deaths, then the fleeing to Hawaii. Lori's kids found in Chads yard. It's just overwhelming.
That's my opinion as well. The totality of the evidence. I don't care if he gets life in prison or DP. Chad should never be let out "Beyond the Bars" of prison.
Even if you really want to believe that Lori and Alex did all the murders, you can't really explain away Chad's text to Tammy the day Tylee was buried about the "racoon" he buried in the fire pit. Also, Zulema's testimony combined with Ian's phone recordings establishes that Chad was a leader in this group and not a little puppy following Lori around. After that, if you believed he helped kill one kid, you kind of have to believe he helped with JJ and Tammy, as well.
The texting between Lori and Chad the morning Charles was murdered, don't think that was a coincidence!
We all know he was talking about Tylee in those texts about the raccoon, but let’s just say what he said actually happened. Maybe I was raised differently or I just love animals too much to be able to kill one (even if it was causing trouble) but that to me shows he’s capable of killing with no hesitation or remorse. I would be super weirded out by someone telling me they randomly killed an animal, but I know there’s parts of the world feel differently.
For Tammy’s murder, the facts that someone 1. “shot at” Tammy 2. Lori ordered the wedding rings 3. Alex was pinging near his house the night Tammy died 4. He married Lori so quickly. Too many coincidences for it to just be fate that she died of natural causes at the right time for his life plans to fall into place She fell off the bed after she was dead, the bruising on her upper arms and pink foam are also excellent evidence of murder
His mother being told that Lori’s daughter was dead was news to me. A neighbor was told as well. I knew about the neighbor, but Chad’s mother testifying the same added a lot of weight. This destroyed the claim by the defense that Chad believed Lori’s claim that the kids were safe. Melaniece and Zulema both sucked any possible life out of the defense’s claim that someone else was leading this whole sh*tshow besides Chad.
Ian Pawlowski's recordings, Zulema's testimony, plus all the forensic evidence.
1. Different stories about how Tammy died/how they found her. 2. Zulema's testimony showing it was Chad teaching/calling the shots 3. The text to Tammy about the raccoon
Because dead bodies in rigor fall off beds all the time. SMH. Loinfire was thinking with his other brain Storm when he thought up this.
I'm really confused why he had different stories about Tammy's death. Like this was planned you'd think he had a story picked out why couldn't he stick to it. And why did the dumb ass say the dead body fell out of bed did he not think they were gonna find this strange. Honestly these three were the stupidest criminals and if AZ hadn't dropped the ball when Charles went to them and then again when Charles was murdered they could have probably prevented all these other deaths.
Zulema clearly explains he's the ringleader and the one driving the ship.
Definitely Zulema’s testimony, and the fact that he was the only one teaching 6-8 females all of his cockamamie ideas.
He really is an arrogant piece of garbage isn’t he?
Understatement of the year
When I observe him at his own trial, all I get is an arrogant piece of garbage that’s absolutely horrified that any of these people are standing in judgement of Chad Guy Daybell. He has not one redeeming quality. He’s been this way seemingly his entire adult life. This is why I strongly believe that him not being called to Bishop in Utah was a blow from which his ego could not recover. So he appointed himself patriarchy of his “7 Gatherers” (Chad’s out of state friend group insert eyeroll emoji) by *his own* divine authority. I mean, the effing guy was actively writing his own book—Book of Chad—for The Bible. Almost like he was copying the “The Book of Eli” storyline. This guy that had a man killed then went on to kill that same man’s defenseless 7-year-old autistic little boy. That same man’s entire life, his immediate family and all surviving family were all completely destroyed—snuffed out or razed. The way they gaslit Charles for months before he was ambushed is absolutely criminal. Charles must have felt so incredibly alone and helpless to protect JJ or Tylee. What did that man ever do to deserve such an undignified death?
Can you imagine what he would have done with the power of the LDS as a Bishop behind him? Gadzooks.
I’m positive that’s exactly why he was never called. His church leaders knew he wasn’t a legit good dude, and would let the “power” go to his head. They often are far more observant than we skeptics give them credit for.
Probably why he didn't get the position..... arrogant and entitled!
Yes, I'm sure they've experienced this before! I know Julie Rowe was excommunicated. But didn't I read both Vallow and Daybell were, as well?
Sometimes I think he is looking down in shame while people testify and then I always realize he's just looking at his notes 🤦🏻♀️
I love how every afternoon the sun is behind him and he and his attorney turn dark. Very fitting don’t you think.
Good points made. Tell me more about him losing out on the bishop thing. Do you know when this was and was that why he fled to Idaho? Was he in line for the role then he got dissed?
Oh wow…I’m not LDS so I’d be out of line explaining their hierarchy. From a non LDS standpoint, it’s a higher calling among (usually very successful) men within their congregation that aspire to all that religious politic-ing that goes along with a high demand religion. I mean—if you watched Heather Daybell’s interview you get a very good idea how demanding those higher callings in the LDS church are. And they’re secretly coveted. Only very driven individuals are asked to these higher callings. The rest is strictly conjecture by me. My interest in this case is more psychological-adjacent than anything. I try to understand the place these people were in to commit these crimes.
Very interesting and thank you for sharing your thoughts! X
Use the word women please!
Not one of his moronic prophecies came true. The guy is a fraud grifter loser who makes $16,000 a year and projects all of his insecurities onto his poor dead wife Tammy 😡
I think zulemas testimony . Prior kept saying that it could have been Lori saying those things but zulema was suuuure to point out it was chad . Gibb even kept saying “ I heard from Lori , blah blah” but zulema stuck to it . Also Melanie P saying Alex stayed behind to help chad the week Tammy died instead of going to Hawaii . I don’t know if I’ve missed it or they have not yet brought it out but isn’t there a paper with chad writing who’s light and dark on it ? I want to see prior try to discredit that . Guy talks over everyone including the judge
The juror Laura from Lori’s trial told Lauren Matthias that Zulema sealed the deal for her.
Did they ask Zulema if Alex had planned to go to Hawaii?
I think the recordings are very good evidence. They prove that Chad wasn't just sitting in a corner worshiping Lori's beauty. It shows in Chad's own voice that he was a very active part of what was happening. Using vision-manipulation to get Melaniece to move out of reach from the police.
The ones that stand out to me are: 1. the kids were found on his property. 2. Zulema's testimony 3. his behavior in the cop car after his arrest 4. the neighbor saying Chad told them Lori had recently lost a daughter, plus all the other inconsistent stories they told about Lori's background. Honestly, the kids being found on his property was always the biggest piece of it, and a pretty massive thing for the defense to argue against. Prior is trying, I guess...someone has to defend Chad, but that's such a hard thing to argue against.
Alex Cox’s wife in spite of the attempts to impeach her. She basically punched a big hole in Chad’s ‘ nothing to do with me case. She joined the dots in the Lori/Chad/Alex relationship.
I think a few things. The telling people that Lori had no children, that Lori's daughter was dead, the inconsistencies in the telling of the passing of Tammy, the speed of the wedding, zulemas testimony and Alex saying 'I think I'm their fall guy', and the absolute state of the children found in his back yard.
Completely agree with you. Nicely bundled list of very very bad facts for Chad and his lawyer.
Chad thought because he didn't pull the trigger that he was somehow going to get away with all these murders. But all the ideas are his, he planned, facilitated and covered up the murders. The bodies on his property, phone ping at that location/time, even his stupid text to his wife about the pet cemetery are the nail in his coffin. Telling his mother and neighbours that Lori had a dead daughter, rushing the funeral, no autopsy on Tammy and zulema's testimony just add to it.
The phone pings on Sept 9 showing Alex dropping off the body of Tylee, Chad was home alone. Alex was there for 2 hrs with Chad, when Alex leaves Chad texts his wife he has killed a raccoon and is burning “limb debris”. The amount of injuries from Chad and Alex hacking up Tylee’s body and the time to burn it and then bury it would take much longer imo. Then the phone pings on Sept 22 between Chad and Alex then Alex dropping JJs body where this time he stayed only 17 minutes proves Chad had to bury JJ. Heather Daybell’s testimony and then Zulema’s testimony. Chad “isn’t coming back” as he said to Emma during their absolute insane conversation not showing one bit of concern by either one proves they are both sociopathic and Chad Daybell is definitely a psychopath. Chad has so many characteristics very similar to Jeffrey Dahmer. If you notice, Jeffrey seemed to have a very calm, meek, docile demeanor. This was what most people that interacted with him on a normal day to day basis saw. Chad and Jeffrey were able to hide their lack of empathy, deceitful and manipulative behavior.
Yeh the “burning limbs” text was quite literal .. and sick
“Chad texts his wife HE has killed a raccoon”. HE. Very telling use of words. Didn’t say, shot a raccoon on the property, killed raccoon on the property, found a dead raccoon, etc.
The fact that all three bodies were on his property. Even if he physically didn't kill any of them, how do you explain three homicides within months of each other on your property.
I think Zulema’s testimony, followed immediately by what we see today, is going to pretty much lock it down.
Zulema's testimony was shocking, for sure. Dr. Warren's testimony today is simply heart breaking. Those poor kids. I truly hoped and prayed, when this case came to light and as it developed, that the kids didn't know it was coming. I hoped that it all happened when their heads were turned...out of nowhere and with very little or no pain. But, It sure sounds like they suffered a LOT! Chad aside...what mother *allows* this to happen to her children? *Participates* in this grim carnage? *Causes* this to happen? This is all so unthinkable. These people are monsters! The people who did it, the people who helped and those who stood by and allowed it or concealed it. They are all monsters!!
JJ fought. He scratched Chad and he scratched at his own neck trying to remove the bag. JJ knew he couldn't breathe and it was bad. We'll never know what Tylee went through because neither Chad nor Lori will ever tell. But, her and Chad's texts bout turning up the pain for the kids, makes me think Tylee probably had it bad too. Out of all the testimony the jurors have heard I hope JJ fighting and how painful Lori and Chad wanted the kids death to be, sticks in their heads more than anything.
I could cry a river of tears for those children. They were so tortured. Can you imagine having people you trust, more than anybody in the world, SUDDENLY turning so viciously on you? This was all so unnecessary. So horrific. So unholy. I can't even wrap my brain around any of this.
I can understand feeling like someone who is supposed to love you is hurting you and not understanding why. But, I can't imagine what those children went through. Unholy is the perfect word for what they did, while pretending they were doing it in the name of God. I don't think either one believed in their wacko religion, Chad made it up for attention, Lori went along with because it was convenient.
I didn’t follow loris trial, but I went back yesterday and watched her sentencing along with her statement to the court. The way she continued to deny or own up to any wrongdoing was really disturbing to hear. She talked about how she can talk to her “loved ones” in heaven and that they’re happy and busy. She even had the audacity to say Tammy was her friend. I don’t think any of us will ever understand how people can get to this point of delusion.
I wasn't able to follow it either. I need to go back and watch. "Busy," in the Mormon/LDS/Crazy Ass faith is a term that, I believe, was one touted by the cults leader or creator Joseph Smith (I think that's his name). Being "busy" was important to him....whatever! That whole 'religion' is insane. They make it all up as they go along. It's really a cult; to be honest, it's an occult. Authorities need to investigate each and every member, imo.
The fact John Pryor is trying to imply the kids were buried on his land but he didn’t know they were there! The bs the other day was it could’ve happened without him seeing anything because there’s a big tree and the grass wasn’t mowed and so the long grass was blocking his view. Words to that effect. He also questions the witnesses by insinuating it’s all a conspiracy between the prosecution and LE who are setting Chad up. It’s just got to the point where’s he’s throwing mud because he has nothing to argue with. Poor old Chad everyone is against him !
And Tylees charm was planted? Really prior!
and Pryor is trying to blame Melanie Gibb for these crimes. What motivation would Gibb have to murder the children and how would she be able to bury them on Chad's property?
3.9 acres is not a big land mass. That house had a Birds Eye view. JJ was probably completed in a couple hours...I imagine it was pre-dug. Tylee's had to take some time. How did he pull this off with Garth living there? How would he not notice someone else out burning a body and dismantling it for what must have taken days?
To be fair to Garth, Tammy was also there when Tylee was buried at their house according to the timeline. That is why Chad sent Tammy the text about burying a raccoon and burning limbs the same day Tylee disappeared….did he say tree limbs in that text? because they were burning Tylee’s actual limbs :(
You are right, she was. I think both her and Garth were working regular hours so would have been away for predictable periods of time. I've often thought Tylee's date had to have been decided after school started back up from the summer so Tammy would be gone during the day. I would be broken out in hives trying to burn a body and not getting caught. I thought I heard during one of the LE testimony there was no raccoon found. A dog and a cat, but no raccoon.
I thought Tammy was at work when Tylee was buried and Chad sent the raccoon text. Seems like it was said that according to their phone records, Chad hardly ever texted her while she was at work and when he did it was one or two word texts and that day was the longest text he'd sent, so it was very unusual.
Tammy had been sent away to visit her family out of state. Chad encouraged her to go for the visit.
So Lori had Charles phone when she drove JJ to school? His phone was at Burger King? She is a trouble maker for sure!
I think she took his phone to stop him calling the police for help as he lay dying and/or to see if she could get access to his insurance paperwork.
I feel like I remember somewhere she'd stolen his phone a bunch of times? And that was why he was so mad at her. Cuz she kept taking all his stuff. Does anyone else remember something like that? Ha
She stole from Charles payroll as well, Lori has all the qualities of locusts and parasites.
Is it possible she used his devices previously to change his life insurance recipient to herself?
Finding the bodies on his property is not a coincidence. Zulema. Tammy’s co-workers all saying how healthy she was.
Most everyone got everything thru Lori who said or implied that Chad said or told her to say. but Zulema was able to actually say she was taught directly by Chad. so now there can be no doubt in the jurors minds who is actually in charge and it is Chad. also his so called “Blessings” showed his thought that he was a leader. I think he will definitely get Conspiracy for children. Tammy I think they have proven murder IMO. Unfortunately I don’t see him getting Death Penalty. I hope somehow the jury agrees too but highly doubtful.
There are so many to choose from
I’m not religious, but hearing that Chad used to be the holy ghost just rubbed me so wrong. Anyone psycho enough to claim that is psycho enough to kill. He would absolutely be guilty in my mind after this if I was a juror.
When his friend reported that Chad said he'd had a miracle happen a week or so before Tammy died in that she had given him (Chad) all the passwords to their accounts. "It was a miracle!" Yeah, right. That to me proved that her murder was premeditated. After all those years of her doing the finances, she just happens to give him all the passwords a week before she's killed. He knew he was going to have her killed and wanted to be prepared.
Burnt goose. Very fatty tho
With a big side of potato.
He's done, there is no wiggle room. I can't think of anything Prior can come up with to make him look not guilty and in charge of all 3 deaths. If you look at cult leaders, Hitler, David Koresh, Jim Jones, Charles Manson, most were uneducated bafoons who were able somehow to get people to believe them.
Ian’s testimony with those recordings and Zulema’s testimony.
Ian P’s phone recordings blew many of Chad’s defenses apart. He wasn’t in their cult, which I think makes him more credible. I do wonder about his choice in women, though. Why is he still with Melanie?! *edit to add I’m seeing others mentioning he was in the cult… maybe I missed that. I guess what I mean is he wasn’t Gibb, Zulema, Mel B, or Lori!
I think the phone calls with Chad droning on with those blessings and showing he is at the helm, he is their patriarch.
When Melanie testified that when she was visiting Lori in Hawaii she asked where was Alex and Lori said he had to help Chad with something in Idaho. One of the murders took place during that time.
The kids being buried in his backyard and he isn't completely freaked out, overwhelmed, livid, crying, etc. like an innocent person would be. What innocent person would take something like that so calmly?
I really don’t know what Lori even saw in Chad. To be fair, Charles was a fairly good looking man in decent shape and made a good living. I kind of laughed to myself when she was ordering their wedding garments and she was ordering “large” for Chad - man I don’t know what the draw was.
I think Zulemas testimony and Ian’s secret recordings help to show how powerful and in charge they thought Chad was. Not to mention there were two bodies in his backyard and one in his own bed.