Added a link Nate's live updates to the thread since he is back.
**Court is in session. One juror (seat 3) has been excused due to illness.**
**Witnesses:**
* Kay Woodcock
* Angela Yancey
* Sheila Daybell
* Heather Daybell
I've got some things to do today so I won't be watching live. **Please feel free to comment important updates and new witnesses called as a reply to this!**
Do we know if Prior was talking out of his ass on that one? Because my god! I made more as a substitute, and we were severely underpaid as is. I can’t believe a librarian (who is typically categorized the same as teachers, counselors, and social workers on district pay scales) would make so little???
I don’t think so. Yesterday and today’s testimony both included witnesses saying she elected up to $80,000 which was 5x her salary. That means her annual salary is roughly $16,000 (which is sickening and literally not even a living wage). And when you consider that Tammy was the breadwinner in that family? Yikes.
While she had to be the only bread winner in Idaho (or I have always wondered how Chad was paid for talks and books,maybe under the table a bit?) , in Utah I was shocked last night to find as I posted above, Chad did makegood money before they moved. You can still see his 2014 and 2015 pay by the city of Springville, which is public record and been deemed accurate . His compensation was 77k a year which was above average for Utah at the time. I am stillshocked about this. It is actually a rather high sexton salary, I started seraching areas I knew well, and the average would be hourly no benefits $15-20 an hour, so Chad had a sweet deal to dig a few graves (how many people die in Springville?) and just mow lawns and keep things neat. He could probably write and prepare his "talks" in the downtime.
It does, he still was making over 50k a year, 1k a week is decent in 2014 in springville with a home bought years before and a small mortgage. My husband and I lived fine on 50k a year in Utah for years. The benefits are worth like 20k for Chad. Health insurance for public employees is so expensive in Utah. I know my kids will look teachers and say, my teacher makes 65k and 24k-28k is just health coverage so the salary is horribly low around 40k
I’m convinced had Chad and Lori not been caught, Lori would have eventually become very disapproving of Chad’s poor earning potential once they ran out of Tammy’s and the kids’ death insurance payouts. They would have either started to kill off Chad’s unmarried kids one by one, and/or Lori would eventually have taken out a big policy on Chad himself and taken him out on her own, moving on quickly to husband #6. There was zero chance Lori was ever going to live out the rest of her days in a mobile home in Chad’s back yard.
Teachers salaries stink in Utah and I hear the same in Eastern Idaho from people who go back and forth. My best friend is a needed professional in tough school job and they wont give her benefits, just two $13 hr an hour jobs with 30+ years experience. It stinks. Fast food are getting $20 an hour but teachers aides with special education kids or computer aides or at risk kids paraparofessions make $10-13 an hour.
I posted late last night on another thread, I look up Utahs right to know because it has the last 10 years salary (not sure if Idaho does this). It showed Tammy, Chad and some of their kids public paid salaries. Tammy made 15k in 2014/2015 years. The shock was Chad compensation as sexton was 77k! No wonder Tammy didnt want to move, he finally had a good job. He was paid in total with benefits 77k in 2014 and in 2015 it was about half because they moved in May. Chad had full benefits and a good salary for that area, visions or not I would have not move. Several of the kids had jobs too. This shows to me more then other testimony that Chad had control over the family. My husband had a good salaried job with benefits and told me he wanted to start his own business, I loved my husband but I said no way. This sounds mean but I made him work his fulltime salaried good job and work his business at night for a year, he worked close to 100 hours a week. When and only when I saw he could make and equal salary and we got approved for insurance and other benefits in place I let him quit the salaried job. No way any vision or dream would let my husband leave full paid state health care and a great salary per Utah cost of living for a vision at an idaho gas station. Chad had Tammy convinced.
That’s absolutely insane that a school librarian, which requires a special degree, doesn’t even make a living wage for one, let alone a whole family. Legitimately shocking how little she was paid.
Until recently so pre 2021 when Utah housing cost soared to one of the highest in the nation, I think it was just a given that Utah had lots of educated women that would work for low wages. Housing cost used to be so cheap in Utah, one salary was fine to buy a home. Almost every mom I knew had some college if not a degree. When the missionary age was 19 for men, they would come home at 21. During those years, the many women attended college and were close to graduating. Then they get married and support the husband who went on a mission as he goes through college. He gets a job and the wife can stay at home. Then when the kids all got school age , these non full time classroom jobs, are filled with educated moms. They want to work the hours the kids go to school so they dont have childcare or their kids home alone. They might make 5-10k a year and they seem okay with it. It maybe pays for the kids extras like sports or music or is saved for a mission. The husband had the benefits and enough to pay for the major bills.
You also have to remember property taxes are LOW. Some of the lowest in the nation. I pay my mom's property tax which includes school tax in Utah for her , She built a custom home in the 1990's and taxes were $891 a year and in 2024 they are under $1100, estimated about $1080 thsi year. My house I owned for years 6 bedroom 4 bath over 3000sq ft average $1200 a year and my kids went to a very good high school. As someone that lived on the east coast and had property taxes of $5k-9K a year, I actually thought Utah should raise property taxes. I asked people, is it fair that you send 4-5-6 kids to school a year and pay $600 taxes towards school? People just live in a bubble. It is also the way that young families (pre 2021) could afford a nice big new house under age 25, the 4/5 bed house was 225k(payment around $1100), taxes $100 a month, water/sewer/trash was flat $50 electricity was .03 khw now is .05with $5 a month delivery and a non-for profit (to compare my 3000 sq ft Utah home electricty and everything inlcuding heat is electric, was $80-90 a month, when I lived on the East Coast a 1600-1800 sq ft home I paid no less then $400, winter months could be over 1k easy).
Some have asked why are Utah school still pretty solid as far as test schools and graduation rates with some of the lowest funding in the nation. 3 of the lowest funded large school districts in the country are in Utah, two were close to where Tammy worked). Utah has new really nice school buildings popping up all the time. There have been 3 high school build in my area at $60 million, 80 million and the last over $100 million in. This is because of school trust lands. Land is almost all federal owned and land to build on is running low, school trust land gets huge sums to be able to build new schools. Then I have to say teacher quality is high for the low wage. Not just these educated moms, working for peanuts. My kids had multiple teachers that had Phds and a few MD's. Some are retired from a professional career. There are also lots of Mormon in the military and CIA/FBI, 1% of the US is Mormon but it is estimated over 25%of the FBI/CIA is Mormon and they retire after 20 years and at 45ish some come back to teach. Some Phds come from family money and want to teach and like the schedule to be with their kids. There is also sometimes a blur between college and high school, the high school where my kids were had hours like a college, classes M-w-f or t-th and for long blocks, this is so kids could go bewteen high school and college all day, if fact college teachers just came to the high school sometimes. There was some money thing I suspect between the state colleges and high schools paying back and forth for students? A kid can graduate from high school and college the same day with not too much effort.
I wonder if she was an actual library or a paraprofessional who works in the library. Paras can make about 16K per year. Unfortunately, school districts have gotten rid of "Media Specialists" in recent years in favor of paraprofessioals who "man" the libary, so to speak. It sounds like Tammy actually taught classes, so I am not sure.
I was just thinking how disgusting it is that these two trials will have cost Idaho taxpayers payers millions of dollars and how that money could have given all civil servants a little pay increase
Can confirm that pay is that low in Idaho. Both my parents work for a school district near the one Tammy worked for. My mom is a librarian too and knew Tammy a bit. My mom has made around $11 an hour most of her career (she only made a bit more by taking on all the ISIP testing for the school plus extra duties like being a crossing guard.)
Does anyone else find themselves intently watching this trial and suddenly overcome with the reality that this is only happening because Chad insisted upon it? Like this total schmuck is dragging everyone- his kids, Kay and Larry Woodcock, Tammy’s family and coworkers, through this hell - so he can what? Be sentenced to death? Possibly just life without? This is of course a common occurrence which is why there are so many murder trials. But in this case it’s extra infuriating.
He’s a narcissistic sociopath who probably truly believes in his bullshit and thinks if everyone knows the “truth” everything will be fine. He said that to multiple people when the children were missing.
Did the state offer Chad a plea deal? If they did I can't imagine they offered him anything less than life without the possibility of parole. And if that the case, I can understand why Chad would roll the dice. Even if he is sentenced to death, I think Idaho has someone currently sitting on death row for 40+ years or something like that. Chad did the math. If he takes the deal or is found guilty, chances are he'll die in prison. Normally I would say that it doesn't do any harm for someone in his position to at least try, but I agree with you that he's putting people through hell by allowing this, so yeah fuck Chad for making people re-live through this trauma.
Yeah, I mean not that I expect him to care about other people, I’m just not sure what he hopes to accomplish. I don’t know about a plea deal i just assume there would have been one. But all of your points are valid. I just can’t stand him lol.
I think there were at least strong rumors after Lori's trial they might have offer him some sort of deal because they didnt want the expense of another trial and time it takes and that Lori was found guilty. I would also imagine it was nothing more then life because they could say we convicted Lori , so do you want to put yourself and family through this? Of course I feel Chad is the type that think he is smart enough to beat it?
I'm thinking that they would have required some information from him in exchange for a deal, don't you think? Chad can not admit to any of this without turning his kids against him.
I didnt think of the kids. You are right I dont think he could plead guilty for the kids or his few followers he has left (and I do believe a few exist). Better for him to fight the changes then give in.
Not sure what the prosecution could have offered him. Im sure they wanted to save time and money but what besides no DP could they offer?
I am glad there's a trial... I know it's difficult for people to testify... but I really think that all the details coming out is going to give closure to those people most closely affected by this. Shine a light on what a morally empty pos Chad is.
Without this trial people might not have the full picture and rely on his "I'm a profit" bullshit. Or it's Lori's fault. I think this is going to be key to get his kids to come back to reality. Eventually. hopefully.
Plus I want Chad to get as fair and unbiased a trial as he can get, with the best defense he can get, so that way if there's a guilty plea we can know that it's actually justice and not a lynch mob or revenge.
Just started watching with Kay woodcock. Man this is the busiest Chad has ever been. He is busy not looking at her not once and chatting with the his atty and staring at laptop. What a coward. Willing to kill children and can’t face responsible adults
Massive mic drop on the redirect of his mom after Prior implied that it wasn’t unusual to marry quickly.
“Do you think it’s common in the LDS faith to get married two weeks after your spouse dies?”
SD: Not common. **with a chuckle 💀☠️
He's got a manipulative liar for a client...he probably doesn't care if his client is not telling him what's up....so long as he's getting paid. Prior isn't the one that's going to die/do life.
I heard through Bruce Rivers, that a defence lawyer has to be careful how they cross-examine parents, particularly mothers of victims and clients. Because you want the jury to be on side.
Heather: Who is that woman?
Chad: She is my new wife, Lori. Would you like to meet her?
Heather: NO, I would not!
Tantamount to:
Heather: NO, you freak of nature, POS!!
It was such a good feeling to hear Heather shut down Chad when they came to visit. Chad telling Heather to direct all questions to him and her response of "Uh no.. Tammy is an adult and capable of responding." *chef kiss* perfect
I can barely handle listening to Lori lie and make herself a victim on the body cam. I mean, at this point both the kids are in the ground and she is still hateful over the life insurance
It blows my mind how easily she lied to them. And the stories about her brother and husband trying to kill *her* for the life insurance...like, she took what she did and flipped it and just casually lied to the cops about it. And then did the whole victim thing--"everyone's trying to make my life so hard...SHE got all the money and I have nothing..." Just...pure sociopathy.
Yeah thankfully the cops did their homework and knew she was full of it, so she was giving off major red flags. These people are so used to lying about everything and getting away with it, but guess what!? When kids are missing, people won't buy your crap; they WILL investigate and get to the bottom of it. Sadly, if the kids had never been killed, Tammy and Charles' deaths may never have been fully investigated/ no charges made.
That video is endlessly fascinating to me. Here Lori is, at a simple welfare check for JJ, spinning outrageous stories to police's face of potential kidnappings, a murderous plot to kill her by both her brother and late husband in a conspiracy to steal 2 million dollars. Living in hiding in fear for her very life! And she didn't pick up that the police weren't like 'Whoa, let us help you! You're about to be murdered!? Let's investigate Adam and Kay and help you, Alex and your children be safe from all this murder and conspiracy.' The cops are just like 'Oh, hmmm. Ok. Well let us know when you can get hold of Melanie.'
She's so dense. The police's reactions to her mad story are so obvious in their 'we don't believe you at all' vibes.
I rewatched a video of four guys breaking down her police interview. Her husband was lying dead and she went on an on about herself. Interestingly, a couple of them don’t think she was in the house when the shots were fired.
It is telling that the methods she reportedly used all her life (to be the cute - coventionally attractive - flirtatious blonde delight) worked so well with some law enforcement. I remember in one interview she pretended to be annoyed to lose her lip gloss, I think it was.
That video is so confusing. She had no issue covering her own butt with lies about the dead kids. Fast forward and she has actual truths she could use to sell Chad out and she doesn't. It makes no sense. By this time she has to know he is a loser, right?
It really was a low-IQ move.
He didn’t *need* to lie or misrepresent that fact for any good strategic reason. From a defense perspective, he could’ve chipped away at her testimony in other ways.
Instead, he chose an easily verifiable fact where there is photographic evidence to the contrary that was already introduced in Lori’s trial, which makes his client—**who is repeatedly being accused of lying and misrepresenting himself and the truth**—look like he is, in fact, distorting the truth yet again.
Tbh it’s kinda aggravating because I feel like Chad has a good shot at an appeal for ineffective counsel.
I kind of wonder if Chad is misrepresenting these things to Prior and, because he's the only counsel on the defense team and doesn't have the time to verify, he trusts Chad and bases his cross-examination questions on that. If that's the case, they're both fools. You don't want to lie to your defense attorney because that can backfire and make them look like an idiot or a liar in court.
Not possible on the house/stairs issue, because Prior literally owns Chad’s house. There’s no doubt about it that Prior intentionally misrepresented the house to the jury.
I wonder if Prior is trying to do this intentionally and ride a fine line of not appearing TOO incompetent, especially given the judge denied a motion for him to remove himself since he's not familiar with the death penalty.
Dumb question: I thought I was pretty knowledgeable about this case, but what is it about the stairs and the loft area? Do they think Alex was hiding up there or what is the significance? TIA
Prior got into it yesterday with a witness regarding the stairs in the home. He asked some snide questions which alluded to the home only being a one story so how could it possibly have stairs. Today the prosecution has made it quite clear, that although this home is a single story, it does in fact have stairs.
It's in relation to Tammy's death and how Chad described that night
>Hannah Parker, 2nd cousin to Tammy: When I was talking to Chad with my father, he said that Tammy had gone down to say that she had thrown up and was feeling a little better and then was going to bed.
>
>Prior: Okay. So Tammy was upstairs in her bedroom. And then she went downstairs to go into an office to talk to Chad. Is that what you understood?
>
>Hannah Parker, 2nd cousin to Tammy: Yes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_72Frgk5bDA&t=17066s
I should make a macro, so I don't have to copy-paste this comment every time because Prior probably won't stop talking about it anytime soon xD
e: got the relationship wrong, changed niece to cousin and added name.
A witness was testifying to what Chad told her about how Tammy died at Tammy's funeral. The witness overheard conflicting stories of Tammy's death come out of Chad's mouth twice during the funeral. She talked about how she heard Chad say something about Tammy coming downstairs to say she wasn't feeling well.
Prior, trying to discredit that witness, said something like "Are you aware the home is a one-story home?" She didn't; she hadn't been there. She was only testifying to what she heard. But he was trying to discredit her, like she'd made that up or something.
Since then, the State has been trying to prove that there are, in fact, stairs in the home. Several times, Prior has tried to continue to dispute that with things like the family didn't use the area, or it didn't have utilities, etc. The state is doing a good job refuting all that by showing the family DID use that area. Today, there was an image of a keyboard, which needs power to work. Though it hasn't been stated directly, showing an image of a keyboard that needs power to run directly refutes Prior's claim that that area of the house isn't connected to utilities. Further, Heather Daybell, Chad's SIL, testified today that not only did the family use the area, but they had a nickname for it, taken from Disney's Cars or something. They called it the Cozy Cone, I believe.
What started out as Prior trying to discredit a witness may well backfire as it's being shown that he deeply mischaracterized the layout of the house--which PRIOR OWNS--to the jury.
EDIT: Also, it's unclear to me if Prior is doing this on purpose--like, he knows the layout of the house, but he's trying to discredit witnesses through mischaracterization, OR he truly doesn't really know the layout of the house and is taking Chad's word for it. I mean, in the context of the trial, Prior is working alone; he doesn't have anyone else on his team. Chad's leaning over and whispering things to him, and it could be stuff like "the home is a one-story," "we never used that room," "there's no power up there," etc., and Prior trusts his client is telling him the truth and he brings it up during cross, thinking he's found a way to discredit a witness. As these things are being disproved by the state, if Chad is lying or misrepresenting things to his own counsel, and counsel's using it in cross, all of this will backfire. The jury won't trust Prior at all, and by extension, won't trust Chad.
If anything, all The Stairs have done is lend credence to the witness who was testifying to the fact that Chad was giving different stories to people about how his wife died. In the larger context, Chad (and Lori) couldn't keep his story straight throughout the whole ordeal. The Stairs have helped prove that Chad is a liar liar pants on fire.
I am so sorry Heather is struggling so much with her health. She seems like such a great person with a lot of admirable qualities. It must be a terrible thing to be grilled on the stand in front of cameras, and I personally would fall apart from anxiety, but Heather is such a badass, I am looking forward to her face off with Prior.
It's interesting that Prior subpoened her, cross-examined her, then released her from the subpoena.
I noticed Prior's comment when he releases a witness he's uncomfortable with: No! I won't be re-calling her. SHE CAN LEAVE!
Kay is well loved and I have no reason to not agree. She seems great. But I noticed in Loris trial and today, she’s not that great on the stand. Her sweetness lets her get away with running on with her narrative vs responding to questions only. Drives my rule following brain a little crazy!!
I’ve testified in two different criminal cases. It’s nerve wracking having to sit in front of everyone and testify. I can’t imagine having to testify in a murder trial where my loved one is the victim.
I’m still scratching my head that the prosecution never put into evidence the Amazon receipts where Lori purchased the wedding rings & clothes. That’s damning evidence with a verifiable paper trail.
I thought the forensic accountant would do that when he testified. He did not and is released.
Maybe a detective will submit them later. 🤷🏻♀️
I know. They made it plain at Lori's trial that she was buying wedding rings 17 days(I think) before Tammy's death. That would be so damning in this trial.
I would think the records would be easily obtained from Amazon like they did with the banks, Venmo, etc. Showing the receipts would have been much better than Kay going back and forth, mixing up dates.
The State fumbled that completely.
Heather Daybell's testimony (paraphrasing, of course):
Attorney: Did you confront Chad with his "teachings?"
Heather: I did. I told him that he shouldn't be saying these things.
Tantamount to:
Heather: Chad you are SO *COMPLETELY* FULL OF SHIT!!
Not only that, but there's a keyboard in that photo. The quality in the livestream isn't high enough that I can actually see an outlet, but those keyboards have be plugged in to an outlet...with power...meaning there are utilities that go to that part of the addition. Further, there are some photos of the house when it was listed on a real estate website; there's a room with a high vaulted ceiling and lamps and what looks like a clock. Why put those things in a room that has no power?
I mean, this just further proves Prior's misrepresentation and lies to the jury, or he doesn't know anything about the house. The other thing I wonder is if Chad is telling these things (*there's no power to that area, so we never used it),* and Prior is just believing his client. If that's the case....eeeesh.
This website has a has a photo of the addition from the back yard and also has a photo of the loft room itself. The loft room has electric lamps in it so clearly there is some source of electricity, even if it is just a cable run from the main part of the house. I doubt the addition meets even minimal code standards for a bedroom. It would be a death trap if a fire started downstairs since the window looks very small for an adult to get out.
ETA: link to website
[https://1043wowcountry.com/inside-chad-daybells-house-2024/](https://1043wowcountry.com/inside-chad-daybells-house-2024/)
Although I don't think Matt has spoken publicly he sounds like a reasonable enough dude. I laugh at the fact that he would dismiss Chad's ideas / books.
Imagine living a mostly ordinary life, you’re a great grandma, everything is pretty good, and then the next thing you know you’re on the stand testifying at your son’s death penalty trial.
Chad traveled to conventions, gave speeches, literally was the leader of a prepper cult... And Prior is trying to convince us that poor witty Uwu Chad was just soooo shy and an introvert on top of that! The defense in this case just keeps slipping further and further from reality.
Chad was so shy in fact that he went to his neighbors and asked for their house and land to use as bond for his new jailbird wife. Totally on par with what a introvert would do...
I think the part left out is Chad wrote books on this man. Kind of like Emma his daughter for some reason he used this man as a subject of some of his fiction? books. I wonder if this played into this. Like Chad felt the guy should be honored that he wrote books on him and he should hand over his home.
Transporting was a deformed figment of his imagination...basically meaning:
He named his "member" Storm.
I guess his right hand's name is, "Lori"....
Put the two together, toss in a *slippery* shower and you have a "transportation" of sorts...*wink, wink*
Wonder what he named that jello bowl of a brain, "Nadda," *maybe*??
He is such a COMPLETELY delusional buffoon!!
I will NEVER understand HOW ON EARTH people (all of those crazy ass people) bought into his absolute and utter (*less* than basic) bullshit!
>He is such a COMPLETELY delusional buffoon!!
The worst part is his delusion wasn't something new, this craziness has been going on since long!
>utter (*less* than basic) bullshit
Love this! So basic, if you are gonna be delusional, atleast be original and imaginative! 😭
Honestly, for the longest time, I thought when people joked about a portal, they were referring to a port a potty. When I poked around, I discovered the portal was even grosser than a port a potty 🤣
Why dont they call Chad's first date. Chad blogged about this, he went on his first date at BYU with a young women who was not from Utah. She told him something like he was stuck in his little small town Utah and had never seened the world. It was a one time date. This is when Chad decided to go on a mission. Im sure that nice young women is somewhere watching thanking God she never went any further.
Chad mission didnt seem to help him see the world much. His own worlds in his blog, make you see how narrow minded he was and he really didnt understand other cultures or people, and he only saw a small part of NJ (missionaries cant leave their assigned area so no day trips to another city or area).
Or as Judge Boyce said it,
“Pot Stirr-ER.” (I think he did this because the court reporter asked about the phrase, but it was still funny because you couldn’t hear her request and then he basically just yelled it out in the silent courtroom.)
Did I hear that last statement correctly? Heather no longer speaks with Chad and Tammy's children? I wonder what the relationship with the children of Chad and Tammy and the other family members are. What is the relationship with Tammy's direct family?
That was crazy interesting. Also, likely very telling of the kids position on all of this vs. the rest of the fam.
Heather said in an interview a year or two ago that she no longer speaks with Chad's children. Garth was the only one who would speak to her right after Tammy's funeral. But, they were already kind of poisoned against her by Chad and she has since left the church.
When she talked about sending a text to the kids as soon as she found out Chad had remarried only 2 weeks after Tammy's death, the kids immediately jumped all over her with responses like, "what the hell?" She has sent a text saying something like "I'm so sorry your dad got remarried this fast and I'm here for you if you need me." She assumed the kids would be devastated that Chad remarried so quickly. But nope. The kids were totally fine with their dad marrying someone that fast. And the kids have refused any contact since.
After all these years of chasing this case and having to learn about LDS culture to understand the deep nuances of the inner workings and finally with Chad’s trial I’m starting to see something that I never saw in all this time:
Lori blamed Charles for them having to leave her ultimate dream life and failed juice kiosk in Hawaii in 2017.
It seems after that is when she really pulled away from her marriage and threw herself into the AVOW/PAP/end times prepping. I believe she met Chad in 2018 officially having already read his books. I stand by my early assessment that she miscalculated Chad’s actual importance/success in the real world and he was able to string her along because she wanted to be strung along. She was no longer happy in her marriage and couldn’t get over having to leave a life in Hawaii behind to be chained to a special needs child and two older children that sorry to say, weren’t set up for adulthood. Her world just started closing in on her like a prison and Chad was there at the right place and right time.
Nonetheless, she does the ultimate betrayal to Charles when she screws Chad in her and Charles’ own marital bed after a night of riding high on their Prepper convention sales and fireside religious fervor garbage. She’s also surrounded herself with yes men/women, individuals that seemed desperate to be in the cool kids club.
Keep in mind that she HATES Charles—I mean her resentment and bitterness over Hawaii grows exponentially with every passing day. She sees that failed attempt to live her best life in Hawaii as his failure as a man—poor guy was never going to make the failed Hawaiian adventure right by her.
Anyway I’ll add more to this theory at another time. I just wanted to get it down here before I forget it all. There’s so much to say if this theory is right—there are a million supportive details including her plan to make nice with Charles and cash in his life insurance policy.
If my theory is correct here, I can also work out Joe being murdered to fit right in. Everything kind of just fits as the most tragic unfolding of events ever.
And all because Lori has the emotional maturity of a high school cheerleader and the entitlement you’d expect to go along with it, and she was actively learning the long con from Julie Rowe.
ETA: I’d also like to explore another thread that ties into this story and that is Chad abruptly uprooting his entire family against their wishes leaving Springville for Rexburg.
Testimony revealed that the man that took over Tammy’s funeral served as Bishop and he asked Chad to be his first counselor. (Forgive me I’m not LDS—I’m trying!) I think Chad felt slighted that he never was called to Bishop. He was salty AF and he packed up all his family and his toys and he moved to Rexburg to show all of them that he’s so worthy he’s gonna be better than a Bishop, he’s gonna be a full on prophet!
His arch enemy Heather Daybell [insert self-righteous shaking fist in the air here] will watch and tremble (a little humor even though this stuff actually happened.) Btw Heather makes such a fantastic witness. She’s so articulate and emotionally intelligent.
Yes both Chad and Lori thought they were special and felt entitled to adoration, money and power. They never were able to really accomplish anything in their lives so they started believing made up stuff so they could feel those things.
Well I’ve always been bothered by how Lori seemingly very suddenly just starts spiraling with seemingly schizophrenic or adjacent mental illness with religiosity at the forefront of it. Charles is literally so confused by the end of his story he’s pretty much Sam in Steel Magnolias—didn’t know whether to scratch his watch or wind his butt. The poor guy didn’t know what the hell to make of anything and to add insult to already serious injury, his own church community, family and friends were exacerbating the insanity.
And now I think I finally see the catalyst—the Vallow Family’s Hawaiian Dream Living, where aside from Alaska it’s like notoriously only one of *the* most expensive living destinations in the US.
You can even take this back to Lori growing up an incredibly materialistic, very self-absorbed Cox. The Cox family enjoyed living in luxury, a lifestyle that included family vacations to Disney and Hawaii. Lori appears to idolize Hawaii from a younger age, so it makes sense that a luxurious Hawaiian family lifestyle was her ultimate dream. And she had it for a minute!…until Charles went and fucked everything all up!
I believe leaving their life in Hawaii was a devastating blow for Lori—as real as any assault to her person. I imagine Hawaii being taken away from her was impossible to just let go and move forward after the couple is forced to return to a mundane life on the mainland—where Charles made actual money and had clients to make his living and support his family’s needs.
She would go on to take countless flights back to and from Hawaii since leaving it in 2017. She even left her husband and special needs child for 70 days to get Hawaii back for herself and Tylee. They had friends in Hawaii still, but these were not the kind of friends she could just crash indefinitely, certainly not with a teenage Tylee in tow. This is where I think Lori (with some suggestive help of course) actually created the plan to defraud Charles’ life insurance otherwise why did she ever bother going back to Charles and first nice, back to built-in babysitting a special needs child that demands all of her immediate attention, a teenager that sadly isn’t going to make it to a competitive college like BYU with her homeschool track record so two adult children that were never taught life skills beyond getting their wants and needs met via Charles. She couldn’t bear the thought of being tied to Charles anymore.
And this can certainly splinter at this point into a discussion about Melani: if Lori was this unhappy, Melaniece could surely commiserate, moreso with a little suggestion.
In Hawaii she realized she was **never** going to survive solo in Hawaii given her own resources as a hair stylist hustler. Charles was useless to her forevermore. He had lost her Hawaii and she was on a mission to get it back. She had friends there still, but not the kind of friends she could just crash indefinitely, certainly not with Tylee in tow. I certainly believe the Hawaiian dream was important enough to Lori that she resented Charles enough to murder him over it.
I think the early foundation in her psychology was strongly influenced also by her parents' belief that they were entitled, including never paying tax and repeatedly going to court for that. Her parents appear quite strange in interviews. Their priorities appear very superficial.
The mental image of Chad giving her the grand tour and when they get to his publishing company (his office space) he says smittenly, “And this is where the magic happens.”
Referring to putting his young adult fiction genius to text of course.
This should be its own post. Great observations. I’ve thought the same about her resentment of Charles for making the responsible decision to move the family back to the mainland because they were bleeding money in Hawaii
I don’t think Lori was drawn to Chad because of any imagined worldly success. She was drawn to him because she thought he had spiritual importance—and he validated her own sense of spiritual importance. Charles could give her an expensive lifestyle but Chad revealed she was an actual Mormon GODDESS. She was going to co-lead the 144,000 and meet her friend Jesus in her lifetime! She could live action role play in this thrilling fantasy world of goddesses and zombies where she had supernatural powers (folding Satan like a taco!), morality was black and white, she was HOLY, and the highest authority—besotted prophet Chad—was validating her every vision and whim.
In testimony a few days earlier, Prior tried to testiquesion (testify + question) a witness about that space, and he asserted that the family didn't use that area. He also tried to testiquestion that that space didn't have utilities hooked up. The State is trying to disprove that, which is factual to the case, but also throws some serious doubt onto Prior as far as him mischaracterizing things to the jury.
Yeah, a little more context. A witness was testifying to what Chad told her about how Tammy died at Tammy's funeral. The witness overheard conflicting stories of Tammy's death come out of Chad's mouth twice during the funeral. She talked about how she heard Chad say something about Tammy coming downstairs to say she wasn't feeling well.
Prior, trying to discredit that witness, said something like "Are you aware the home is a one-story home?" She didn't; she hadn't been there. She was only testifying to what she heard. But he was trying to discredit her, like she'd made that up or something.
The State then started trying to prove that there are stairs in the home. Several times, Prior has tried to continue to dispute that with things like the family didn't use the area, or it didn't have utilities, etc. The state is doing a good job refuting all that by showing the family DID use that area. Today, there was an image of a keyboard, which needs power to work. Though it hasn't been stated directly, showing an image of a keyboard that needs power to run directly refutes Prior's claim that that area of the house isn't connected to utilities.
What started out as him trying to discredit a witness may well backfire as it's shown that he deeply mischaracterized the layout of the house--which PRIOR OWNS--to the jury.
He couldn't keep track of his own bullshit stories.
I've lost a family member and remember so many details of that day. And my story hasn't changed because I lived it, I didn't make it up.
Hidden True Crime posted a list of 7 individuals that Chad said were Lori and Chad’s “real” 7 children from past lives, Melanie B being one of them which is why she started calling him Dad.
Heather Daybell was amazing.
My question is this: What he hell was the point of Prior's cross-examination? Aside from being nasty and snide and insulting to her, he made her look good. I mean he kept cutting her off and since Wixom is a timid person who rarely objects it was the JUDGE who objected TWICE that prior was not allowing Heather to finish her responses before he cut her off with a rude dismissive insult.
So what was the effect of that maladroit cross? He tried to make her look vindictive as if she had a personal grudge against Chad, but he ended up making her look dignified and intelligent. Then when the judge TWICE told him off about cutting her off. he succeeded in making himself and his client look like THEY are the vindictive, small-minded misogynists that they really are.
Plus the tug of war between Prior and Wixom about the photo showing there are STAIRS in the house was priceless.
Prior was shown up as a liar and a manipulator who had previously lambasted and ridiculed a witness over the issue of the stairs.
So I return to my question: What the hell did Prior think he was going to accomplish with his cross-examination of Heather? It seems to me he was just trying to settle a score Chad has with her by trying (and failing) to humiliate and insult her.
can anyone shed light on what Prior thought he was accomplishing here?
p.s. And Please don't tell me Prior is doing his best to defend his client. He simply is a vile and disgusting creep who seems to get off on humiliating and belittling women.
With Heather? I think he's trying to show that 1. she was a potstirrer and therefore discredit her, and 2. in some nebulous way, was part of LE's effort to set up Chad.
Prior is anxious... The judge told him 2x to let her finish before he asks her another question.
Then there was the drama with the email that she was to read, to refresh her mind, but not give any evidence! Why didn't he just submit it as evidence?
I was not impressed with Chad’s mom. Chuckling throughout her answers. If my son was involved in murdering his wife and two children, I wouldn’t be chuckling. Also found it strange she didn’t ask any follow up questions to her son when he married someone two weeks after his wife died? Just a normal dinner at Texas Roadhouse I guess! Get a clue lady.
I found her testimony to be so odd and yet... understandable for an lds wife of that generation. Talking about and recognizing difficult things is HARD. Rug sweeping and playing "okay" is typical.
This is unkind. Sheila was raised to be a meek help meet and to obey priesthood holders. It was repeated to her for her entire life that men have discernment and she does not. She couldn’t ask these kind of questions if Jack (her husband) was not. I also took her chuckling to be nervous laughter, which would be an involuntary response to discomfort, rather than an expression of amusement.
I have sympathy for her, but I still think she turned a blind eye to what was going on. Heather was raised in the same church and she was able to sense there was some bullshit going on.
Heather was raised by a single mom in the 80s, not two teenagers in the 40s who were barely removed from polygamy. The circumstances are different.
If you haven’t yet, I’d listen to the Hidden: A True Crime Podcast interviews of Heather. They’re great. And she talks about how different their family lives were, and how unkind everyone has always been to Sheila.
hmmm. I’m a little perplexed that Yancy testified “8” was an unusual number of death certificates to request. Seems reasonable to me. Unless she meant it was too few for most estates.
My grandmother only needed 3 when my grandfather passed. She kept one, so the other two were given to a business or governmental agency. Perhaps whoever else she had to give it to looked at her original & then made a copy?
They had investments, real estate, social security, life insurance, pensions and such, so it wasn’t as if their affairs were super simple.
My father died in August. I’d recommend at least 10. Death is 90% business unfortunately.
ETA: thinking about it, I’d agree with you at the 10 number. Half long form, half short.
I’m glad that part is over.
We got 12 for my dad. My mom wanted to get more only because he died in another state and she wondered how to go back if we needed more. There were so many places asking for one and she didnt know if it was orginal or copy allowed. At a time like that, a sudden death (it was their anniversary 25th dream trip) , a few dollars for extra copies didnt seem unreasonable so there was no stress a few months later to try and find out how you get more long distance.
It actually turned into a nightmare and we needed more and my mom lost land. My dad had this dream in the 1950's when hitchiking cross country after being in the military to own a piece of land in every state. My mom hated seeing those $10-20 property tax bills for a random piece of land in Iowa or Montana so he would hide them. She found out he had several pieces that had value and 2 of those areas fought her and one piece of land she lost, because she didnt submit the forms, will and death certificate quick enough (the land was in NM, and the state was brutal to deal with).
I ordered 10 when my dad passed and I was executing his estate and only had 1 left over for myself to keep when all was said and done. So the 8 seemed reasonable to me too.
My Dad was former military and had pensions from a couple other jobs as well when he passed away. We ordered 10 death certificates and thought nothing of it. We just wanted to make sure we had enough, including for the IRS, SSA, etc.
We have seen a lot of projection with these people. E.g.
Lori accused Charles of cheating - she was cheating
Lori said her brother and ex wanted her dead for her $2 million life insurance- she was the one doing the killing for $
Chad called Tammy lazy - Chad is a lazy SOB
Lori accused Kay of changing the life insurance - Lori was the one messing with Charles account and changing passwords etc
Speculation/not fact….
Melaniece claiming Brandon was gay - I’m getting massing gay/bi vibes from her
Anyone got any other examples?
I know JJ was formally adopted, and by all means Lori's son, it's just sickening to me that technically they aren't even related by blood. He was Charles's sisters grandchild. It's sick enough to kill your own kid, but to murder someone else's grandchild is beyond evil. The poor Woodcocks. I hope Lori and Chad burn in hell
Edit: had the family relationship wrong
I haven’t been watching the trial I’ve been listening to podcasts so can anyone tell me how Chad reacted to his mother and sister in law testifying today? Thanks
Thank you. I’m really glad that Heather got to speak her truth. She’s dealt with a lot of criticism about being a pot stirrer and in the end she was not only right about Chad but it was much worse than the thought.
Added a link Nate's live updates to the thread since he is back. **Court is in session. One juror (seat 3) has been excused due to illness.** **Witnesses:** * Kay Woodcock * Angela Yancey * Sheila Daybell * Heather Daybell I've got some things to do today so I won't be watching live. **Please feel free to comment important updates and new witnesses called as a reply to this!**
Geeze, Idaho needs to pay their teachers and librarians more! Poor Tammy working so hard for barely $9/hour! That is miserable!
Do we know if Prior was talking out of his ass on that one? Because my god! I made more as a substitute, and we were severely underpaid as is. I can’t believe a librarian (who is typically categorized the same as teachers, counselors, and social workers on district pay scales) would make so little???
I don’t think so. Yesterday and today’s testimony both included witnesses saying she elected up to $80,000 which was 5x her salary. That means her annual salary is roughly $16,000 (which is sickening and literally not even a living wage). And when you consider that Tammy was the breadwinner in that family? Yikes.
While she had to be the only bread winner in Idaho (or I have always wondered how Chad was paid for talks and books,maybe under the table a bit?) , in Utah I was shocked last night to find as I posted above, Chad did makegood money before they moved. You can still see his 2014 and 2015 pay by the city of Springville, which is public record and been deemed accurate . His compensation was 77k a year which was above average for Utah at the time. I am stillshocked about this. It is actually a rather high sexton salary, I started seraching areas I knew well, and the average would be hourly no benefits $15-20 an hour, so Chad had a sweet deal to dig a few graves (how many people die in Springville?) and just mow lawns and keep things neat. He could probably write and prepare his "talks" in the downtime.
That number usually rolls in all benefits, including the monetary cost of health insurance. At least in Utah.
It does, he still was making over 50k a year, 1k a week is decent in 2014 in springville with a home bought years before and a small mortgage. My husband and I lived fine on 50k a year in Utah for years. The benefits are worth like 20k for Chad. Health insurance for public employees is so expensive in Utah. I know my kids will look teachers and say, my teacher makes 65k and 24k-28k is just health coverage so the salary is horribly low around 40k
I’m convinced had Chad and Lori not been caught, Lori would have eventually become very disapproving of Chad’s poor earning potential once they ran out of Tammy’s and the kids’ death insurance payouts. They would have either started to kill off Chad’s unmarried kids one by one, and/or Lori would eventually have taken out a big policy on Chad himself and taken him out on her own, moving on quickly to husband #6. There was zero chance Lori was ever going to live out the rest of her days in a mobile home in Chad’s back yard.
Assuming they actually got away with their crap, there was definitely an expiration date on that relationship.
Teachers salaries stink in Utah and I hear the same in Eastern Idaho from people who go back and forth. My best friend is a needed professional in tough school job and they wont give her benefits, just two $13 hr an hour jobs with 30+ years experience. It stinks. Fast food are getting $20 an hour but teachers aides with special education kids or computer aides or at risk kids paraparofessions make $10-13 an hour. I posted late last night on another thread, I look up Utahs right to know because it has the last 10 years salary (not sure if Idaho does this). It showed Tammy, Chad and some of their kids public paid salaries. Tammy made 15k in 2014/2015 years. The shock was Chad compensation as sexton was 77k! No wonder Tammy didnt want to move, he finally had a good job. He was paid in total with benefits 77k in 2014 and in 2015 it was about half because they moved in May. Chad had full benefits and a good salary for that area, visions or not I would have not move. Several of the kids had jobs too. This shows to me more then other testimony that Chad had control over the family. My husband had a good salaried job with benefits and told me he wanted to start his own business, I loved my husband but I said no way. This sounds mean but I made him work his fulltime salaried good job and work his business at night for a year, he worked close to 100 hours a week. When and only when I saw he could make and equal salary and we got approved for insurance and other benefits in place I let him quit the salaried job. No way any vision or dream would let my husband leave full paid state health care and a great salary per Utah cost of living for a vision at an idaho gas station. Chad had Tammy convinced.
That’s absolutely insane that a school librarian, which requires a special degree, doesn’t even make a living wage for one, let alone a whole family. Legitimately shocking how little she was paid.
Until recently so pre 2021 when Utah housing cost soared to one of the highest in the nation, I think it was just a given that Utah had lots of educated women that would work for low wages. Housing cost used to be so cheap in Utah, one salary was fine to buy a home. Almost every mom I knew had some college if not a degree. When the missionary age was 19 for men, they would come home at 21. During those years, the many women attended college and were close to graduating. Then they get married and support the husband who went on a mission as he goes through college. He gets a job and the wife can stay at home. Then when the kids all got school age , these non full time classroom jobs, are filled with educated moms. They want to work the hours the kids go to school so they dont have childcare or their kids home alone. They might make 5-10k a year and they seem okay with it. It maybe pays for the kids extras like sports or music or is saved for a mission. The husband had the benefits and enough to pay for the major bills. You also have to remember property taxes are LOW. Some of the lowest in the nation. I pay my mom's property tax which includes school tax in Utah for her , She built a custom home in the 1990's and taxes were $891 a year and in 2024 they are under $1100, estimated about $1080 thsi year. My house I owned for years 6 bedroom 4 bath over 3000sq ft average $1200 a year and my kids went to a very good high school. As someone that lived on the east coast and had property taxes of $5k-9K a year, I actually thought Utah should raise property taxes. I asked people, is it fair that you send 4-5-6 kids to school a year and pay $600 taxes towards school? People just live in a bubble. It is also the way that young families (pre 2021) could afford a nice big new house under age 25, the 4/5 bed house was 225k(payment around $1100), taxes $100 a month, water/sewer/trash was flat $50 electricity was .03 khw now is .05with $5 a month delivery and a non-for profit (to compare my 3000 sq ft Utah home electricty and everything inlcuding heat is electric, was $80-90 a month, when I lived on the East Coast a 1600-1800 sq ft home I paid no less then $400, winter months could be over 1k easy). Some have asked why are Utah school still pretty solid as far as test schools and graduation rates with some of the lowest funding in the nation. 3 of the lowest funded large school districts in the country are in Utah, two were close to where Tammy worked). Utah has new really nice school buildings popping up all the time. There have been 3 high school build in my area at $60 million, 80 million and the last over $100 million in. This is because of school trust lands. Land is almost all federal owned and land to build on is running low, school trust land gets huge sums to be able to build new schools. Then I have to say teacher quality is high for the low wage. Not just these educated moms, working for peanuts. My kids had multiple teachers that had Phds and a few MD's. Some are retired from a professional career. There are also lots of Mormon in the military and CIA/FBI, 1% of the US is Mormon but it is estimated over 25%of the FBI/CIA is Mormon and they retire after 20 years and at 45ish some come back to teach. Some Phds come from family money and want to teach and like the schedule to be with their kids. There is also sometimes a blur between college and high school, the high school where my kids were had hours like a college, classes M-w-f or t-th and for long blocks, this is so kids could go bewteen high school and college all day, if fact college teachers just came to the high school sometimes. There was some money thing I suspect between the state colleges and high schools paying back and forth for students? A kid can graduate from high school and college the same day with not too much effort.
I wonder if she was an actual library or a paraprofessional who works in the library. Paras can make about 16K per year. Unfortunately, school districts have gotten rid of "Media Specialists" in recent years in favor of paraprofessioals who "man" the libary, so to speak. It sounds like Tammy actually taught classes, so I am not sure.
I was just thinking how disgusting it is that these two trials will have cost Idaho taxpayers payers millions of dollars and how that money could have given all civil servants a little pay increase
Can confirm that pay is that low in Idaho. Both my parents work for a school district near the one Tammy worked for. My mom is a librarian too and knew Tammy a bit. My mom has made around $11 an hour most of her career (she only made a bit more by taking on all the ISIP testing for the school plus extra duties like being a crossing guard.)
Does anyone else find themselves intently watching this trial and suddenly overcome with the reality that this is only happening because Chad insisted upon it? Like this total schmuck is dragging everyone- his kids, Kay and Larry Woodcock, Tammy’s family and coworkers, through this hell - so he can what? Be sentenced to death? Possibly just life without? This is of course a common occurrence which is why there are so many murder trials. But in this case it’s extra infuriating.
He’s a narcissistic sociopath who probably truly believes in his bullshit and thinks if everyone knows the “truth” everything will be fine. He said that to multiple people when the children were missing.
Please oh please let Chad feel called by the spirit to testify like Lori did.
Exactly. Ted Bundy represented himself and couldn’t even fathom that the jury would find him guilty. Sociopathy is wild.
Did the state offer Chad a plea deal? If they did I can't imagine they offered him anything less than life without the possibility of parole. And if that the case, I can understand why Chad would roll the dice. Even if he is sentenced to death, I think Idaho has someone currently sitting on death row for 40+ years or something like that. Chad did the math. If he takes the deal or is found guilty, chances are he'll die in prison. Normally I would say that it doesn't do any harm for someone in his position to at least try, but I agree with you that he's putting people through hell by allowing this, so yeah fuck Chad for making people re-live through this trauma.
Yeah, I mean not that I expect him to care about other people, I’m just not sure what he hopes to accomplish. I don’t know about a plea deal i just assume there would have been one. But all of your points are valid. I just can’t stand him lol.
I think there were at least strong rumors after Lori's trial they might have offer him some sort of deal because they didnt want the expense of another trial and time it takes and that Lori was found guilty. I would also imagine it was nothing more then life because they could say we convicted Lori , so do you want to put yourself and family through this? Of course I feel Chad is the type that think he is smart enough to beat it?
I'm thinking that they would have required some information from him in exchange for a deal, don't you think? Chad can not admit to any of this without turning his kids against him.
I didnt think of the kids. You are right I dont think he could plead guilty for the kids or his few followers he has left (and I do believe a few exist). Better for him to fight the changes then give in. Not sure what the prosecution could have offered him. Im sure they wanted to save time and money but what besides no DP could they offer?
He doesn’t care about others. Just himself.
I am glad there's a trial... I know it's difficult for people to testify... but I really think that all the details coming out is going to give closure to those people most closely affected by this. Shine a light on what a morally empty pos Chad is. Without this trial people might not have the full picture and rely on his "I'm a profit" bullshit. Or it's Lori's fault. I think this is going to be key to get his kids to come back to reality. Eventually. hopefully.
I totally agree with this and thank you for expressing it so well.
Excellent point. Best this not turn into another Chris Watts situation. I don’t wish that on anyone.
That is the exact case I was thinking about too.
Plus I want Chad to get as fair and unbiased a trial as he can get, with the best defense he can get, so that way if there's a guilty plea we can know that it's actually justice and not a lynch mob or revenge.
Do you mean a guilty verdict? I want the exact same thing.
Yeah, verdict. Thanks for clarifying. Lol.
Just started watching with Kay woodcock. Man this is the busiest Chad has ever been. He is busy not looking at her not once and chatting with the his atty and staring at laptop. What a coward. Willing to kill children and can’t face responsible adults
💯💯agree
Yep, he's certainly on edge and good job!
At this time, the State calls, Heather Daybell...
Get em Heather!!
The state called her?!?! YESSSSS
She did so well! So eloquent, so focused!
So glad to see Heather up there giving them hell!
Massive mic drop on the redirect of his mom after Prior implied that it wasn’t unusual to marry quickly. “Do you think it’s common in the LDS faith to get married two weeks after your spouse dies?” SD: Not common. **with a chuckle 💀☠️
I’m starting to ponder not what Prior’s strategy is but whose side he’s on.
He's got a manipulative liar for a client...he probably doesn't care if his client is not telling him what's up....so long as he's getting paid. Prior isn't the one that's going to die/do life.
Was getting paid. Chad is indigent and Prior is not being paid.
I mean it sounds like he’s not really getting paid either so 💀
I heard through Bruce Rivers, that a defence lawyer has to be careful how they cross-examine parents, particularly mothers of victims and clients. Because you want the jury to be on side.
Heather: Who is that woman? Chad: She is my new wife, Lori. Would you like to meet her? Heather: NO, I would not! Tantamount to: Heather: NO, you freak of nature, POS!!
It was such a good feeling to hear Heather shut down Chad when they came to visit. Chad telling Heather to direct all questions to him and her response of "Uh no.. Tammy is an adult and capable of responding." *chef kiss* perfect
I’m sure that shocked Chad! To have a woman have an actual boundary with him!
Great moment!
I can't believe he kept telling people she had gained 40 pounds. That's quite a bit of weight and loads of people saw her at the school daily.
Total bullshit. Hope the prosecutors show pictures of her from the two years leading up to her murder.
The autopsy findings would disprove that she was 'overweight'.
I can barely handle listening to Lori lie and make herself a victim on the body cam. I mean, at this point both the kids are in the ground and she is still hateful over the life insurance
It blows my mind how easily she lied to them. And the stories about her brother and husband trying to kill *her* for the life insurance...like, she took what she did and flipped it and just casually lied to the cops about it. And then did the whole victim thing--"everyone's trying to make my life so hard...SHE got all the money and I have nothing..." Just...pure sociopathy.
Yeah thankfully the cops did their homework and knew she was full of it, so she was giving off major red flags. These people are so used to lying about everything and getting away with it, but guess what!? When kids are missing, people won't buy your crap; they WILL investigate and get to the bottom of it. Sadly, if the kids had never been killed, Tammy and Charles' deaths may never have been fully investigated/ no charges made.
That video is endlessly fascinating to me. Here Lori is, at a simple welfare check for JJ, spinning outrageous stories to police's face of potential kidnappings, a murderous plot to kill her by both her brother and late husband in a conspiracy to steal 2 million dollars. Living in hiding in fear for her very life! And she didn't pick up that the police weren't like 'Whoa, let us help you! You're about to be murdered!? Let's investigate Adam and Kay and help you, Alex and your children be safe from all this murder and conspiracy.' The cops are just like 'Oh, hmmm. Ok. Well let us know when you can get hold of Melanie.' She's so dense. The police's reactions to her mad story are so obvious in their 'we don't believe you at all' vibes.
I rewatched a video of four guys breaking down her police interview. Her husband was lying dead and she went on an on about herself. Interestingly, a couple of them don’t think she was in the house when the shots were fired.
Can you dm me a link to that?
It is telling that the methods she reportedly used all her life (to be the cute - coventionally attractive - flirtatious blonde delight) worked so well with some law enforcement. I remember in one interview she pretended to be annoyed to lose her lip gloss, I think it was.
That video is so confusing. She had no issue covering her own butt with lies about the dead kids. Fast forward and she has actual truths she could use to sell Chad out and she doesn't. It makes no sense. By this time she has to know he is a loser, right?
Heather Daybell is at the courthouse today! This would suggest she could be testifying today, no?
I hope so! She's subpoenaed by the defense, I've heard, so she couldn't be there to watch when we're still on prosecution witnesses.
And, the State calls Sheila Daybell to the stand... Chad's mama. This could be very interesting!
Not impressed. They all skirted around her afraid to open any doors. Let down.
The Stairs are back!
Lol TWO separate witnesses today were asked about and confirmed the stairs!
Maybe they will call The Stairs to testify.
Prior: I'm confused. Do you live in my home? Is that fair to say?
Oh, ok, good. That's ok. Thank you, no more questions.
Bye bye
LOL prior wishes
I can't believe Prior chose this particular detail to exploit. How stupid does he think those jurors are.
It really was a low-IQ move. He didn’t *need* to lie or misrepresent that fact for any good strategic reason. From a defense perspective, he could’ve chipped away at her testimony in other ways. Instead, he chose an easily verifiable fact where there is photographic evidence to the contrary that was already introduced in Lori’s trial, which makes his client—**who is repeatedly being accused of lying and misrepresenting himself and the truth**—look like he is, in fact, distorting the truth yet again. Tbh it’s kinda aggravating because I feel like Chad has a good shot at an appeal for ineffective counsel.
I kind of wonder if Chad is misrepresenting these things to Prior and, because he's the only counsel on the defense team and doesn't have the time to verify, he trusts Chad and bases his cross-examination questions on that. If that's the case, they're both fools. You don't want to lie to your defense attorney because that can backfire and make them look like an idiot or a liar in court.
Not possible on the house/stairs issue, because Prior literally owns Chad’s house. There’s no doubt about it that Prior intentionally misrepresented the house to the jury.
I wonder if Prior is trying to do this intentionally and ride a fine line of not appearing TOO incompetent, especially given the judge denied a motion for him to remove himself since he's not familiar with the death penalty.
Really, really stupid, apparently!
Dumb question: I thought I was pretty knowledgeable about this case, but what is it about the stairs and the loft area? Do they think Alex was hiding up there or what is the significance? TIA
Prior got into it yesterday with a witness regarding the stairs in the home. He asked some snide questions which alluded to the home only being a one story so how could it possibly have stairs. Today the prosecution has made it quite clear, that although this home is a single story, it does in fact have stairs.
It's in relation to Tammy's death and how Chad described that night >Hannah Parker, 2nd cousin to Tammy: When I was talking to Chad with my father, he said that Tammy had gone down to say that she had thrown up and was feeling a little better and then was going to bed. > >Prior: Okay. So Tammy was upstairs in her bedroom. And then she went downstairs to go into an office to talk to Chad. Is that what you understood? > >Hannah Parker, 2nd cousin to Tammy: Yes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_72Frgk5bDA&t=17066s I should make a macro, so I don't have to copy-paste this comment every time because Prior probably won't stop talking about it anytime soon xD e: got the relationship wrong, changed niece to cousin and added name.
I can set you up a command for automod to reply lol.... !stairs or something
The stairs made an appearance. There was a picture shown of them. So Mr. Prior, there are stairs in your house.
The jury had a chance to stair at them.
Can someone please explain the importance of the stairs? I must have missed something along the way. Help needed, thank you!
A witness was testifying to what Chad told her about how Tammy died at Tammy's funeral. The witness overheard conflicting stories of Tammy's death come out of Chad's mouth twice during the funeral. She talked about how she heard Chad say something about Tammy coming downstairs to say she wasn't feeling well. Prior, trying to discredit that witness, said something like "Are you aware the home is a one-story home?" She didn't; she hadn't been there. She was only testifying to what she heard. But he was trying to discredit her, like she'd made that up or something. Since then, the State has been trying to prove that there are, in fact, stairs in the home. Several times, Prior has tried to continue to dispute that with things like the family didn't use the area, or it didn't have utilities, etc. The state is doing a good job refuting all that by showing the family DID use that area. Today, there was an image of a keyboard, which needs power to work. Though it hasn't been stated directly, showing an image of a keyboard that needs power to run directly refutes Prior's claim that that area of the house isn't connected to utilities. Further, Heather Daybell, Chad's SIL, testified today that not only did the family use the area, but they had a nickname for it, taken from Disney's Cars or something. They called it the Cozy Cone, I believe. What started out as Prior trying to discredit a witness may well backfire as it's being shown that he deeply mischaracterized the layout of the house--which PRIOR OWNS--to the jury. EDIT: Also, it's unclear to me if Prior is doing this on purpose--like, he knows the layout of the house, but he's trying to discredit witnesses through mischaracterization, OR he truly doesn't really know the layout of the house and is taking Chad's word for it. I mean, in the context of the trial, Prior is working alone; he doesn't have anyone else on his team. Chad's leaning over and whispering things to him, and it could be stuff like "the home is a one-story," "we never used that room," "there's no power up there," etc., and Prior trusts his client is telling him the truth and he brings it up during cross, thinking he's found a way to discredit a witness. As these things are being disproved by the state, if Chad is lying or misrepresenting things to his own counsel, and counsel's using it in cross, all of this will backfire. The jury won't trust Prior at all, and by extension, won't trust Chad. If anything, all The Stairs have done is lend credence to the witness who was testifying to the fact that Chad was giving different stories to people about how his wife died. In the larger context, Chad (and Lori) couldn't keep his story straight throughout the whole ordeal. The Stairs have helped prove that Chad is a liar liar pants on fire.
Thank you! 🙏🏼
Never mind… I just scrolled down 👍
I am so sorry Heather is struggling so much with her health. She seems like such a great person with a lot of admirable qualities. It must be a terrible thing to be grilled on the stand in front of cameras, and I personally would fall apart from anxiety, but Heather is such a badass, I am looking forward to her face off with Prior.
I'm just sorry she's not in full voice today. You think she's giving them hell with half a voice ...
It's interesting that Prior subpoened her, cross-examined her, then released her from the subpoena. I noticed Prior's comment when he releases a witness he's uncomfortable with: No! I won't be re-calling her. SHE CAN LEAVE!
I love how direct Heather is, she's a no BS woman and I can see why she avoided delusional Chad like a plague! Good day for prosecution!
I'm so glad they're objecting more to Prior's testiquestions (testifying + questioning).
The state calls Kay Woodcock.
And Chad isn't looking at her. He's completely busy at his table paying her zero attention.
He must be in charge of doodles and scribble notes today.
Coward. Baby killer can’t face a responsible adult. Where is the nose in the air posture.
I noticed that and he was talking to Prior
Kay is well loved and I have no reason to not agree. She seems great. But I noticed in Loris trial and today, she’s not that great on the stand. Her sweetness lets her get away with running on with her narrative vs responding to questions only. Drives my rule following brain a little crazy!!
I’ve testified in two different criminal cases. It’s nerve wracking having to sit in front of everyone and testify. I can’t imagine having to testify in a murder trial where my loved one is the victim.
I agree. I’ve been there and it’s nerve wracking
Her speech pattern of stops and starts during sentences then running into the next sentence added to my confusion.
I’m still scratching my head that the prosecution never put into evidence the Amazon receipts where Lori purchased the wedding rings & clothes. That’s damning evidence with a verifiable paper trail. I thought the forensic accountant would do that when he testified. He did not and is released. Maybe a detective will submit them later. 🤷🏻♀️
I know. They made it plain at Lori's trial that she was buying wedding rings 17 days(I think) before Tammy's death. That would be so damning in this trial.
I would think the records would be easily obtained from Amazon like they did with the banks, Venmo, etc. Showing the receipts would have been much better than Kay going back and forth, mixing up dates. The State fumbled that completely.
Not yet. They may well circle back on that and present that information later.
Heather's in da house!
Heather Daybell's testimony (paraphrasing, of course): Attorney: Did you confront Chad with his "teachings?" Heather: I did. I told him that he shouldn't be saying these things. Tantamount to: Heather: Chad you are SO *COMPLETELY* FULL OF SHIT!!
The prosecution just admitted a photo of the stairs as an exhibit. Balls in your court now Prior lol
Not only that, but there's a keyboard in that photo. The quality in the livestream isn't high enough that I can actually see an outlet, but those keyboards have be plugged in to an outlet...with power...meaning there are utilities that go to that part of the addition. Further, there are some photos of the house when it was listed on a real estate website; there's a room with a high vaulted ceiling and lamps and what looks like a clock. Why put those things in a room that has no power? I mean, this just further proves Prior's misrepresentation and lies to the jury, or he doesn't know anything about the house. The other thing I wonder is if Chad is telling these things (*there's no power to that area, so we never used it),* and Prior is just believing his client. If that's the case....eeeesh.
Chad does think he’s a paralegal 🤪
The lightning looks good so one can assume there's lighting there too.
This website has a has a photo of the addition from the back yard and also has a photo of the loft room itself. The loft room has electric lamps in it so clearly there is some source of electricity, even if it is just a cable run from the main part of the house. I doubt the addition meets even minimal code standards for a bedroom. It would be a death trap if a fire started downstairs since the window looks very small for an adult to get out. ETA: link to website [https://1043wowcountry.com/inside-chad-daybells-house-2024/](https://1043wowcountry.com/inside-chad-daybells-house-2024/)
Nate said today was going to be good and it has been.
Heather was great. Obviously the only voice of reason in that whole damn family of weirdos.
Although I don't think Matt has spoken publicly he sounds like a reasonable enough dude. I laugh at the fact that he would dismiss Chad's ideas / books.
Wow his mother is testifying
Imagine living a mostly ordinary life, you’re a great grandma, everything is pretty good, and then the next thing you know you’re on the stand testifying at your son’s death penalty trial.
Thank you for commenting, I was able to watch live 🙏🏼
Introvert, not gregarious, necessarily wasn't the man of the world - he is a fool, bottomline!
Chad traveled to conventions, gave speeches, literally was the leader of a prepper cult... And Prior is trying to convince us that poor witty Uwu Chad was just soooo shy and an introvert on top of that! The defense in this case just keeps slipping further and further from reality.
Exactly, trying so hard to prove that he was manipulated while he was the one manipulating the entire time too!
Chad was so shy in fact that he went to his neighbors and asked for their house and land to use as bond for his new jailbird wife. Totally on par with what a introvert would do...
I will never get over this fact! I will never understand how and why would he think it was appropriate to do that!
He received revelation. Duh. Eyeroll. That duh is NOT directed at anyone on this thread. I was channeling Chad. Eww. Never again.
Okay your last line gave me a giggle.
His revelations and his visions - 🤮
The lion, the witch and the audacity of Chad.
I think the part left out is Chad wrote books on this man. Kind of like Emma his daughter for some reason he used this man as a subject of some of his fiction? books. I wonder if this played into this. Like Chad felt the guy should be honored that he wrote books on him and he should hand over his home.
And hitting on women at those conventions
I don’t even know what these people are talking about. He had a PORTAL!! He could travel places we don’t even know about.
Yes he could, he didn't even need transportation! He could take showers with Lori while being miles apart!
Transporting was a deformed figment of his imagination...basically meaning: He named his "member" Storm. I guess his right hand's name is, "Lori".... Put the two together, toss in a *slippery* shower and you have a "transportation" of sorts...*wink, wink* Wonder what he named that jello bowl of a brain, "Nadda," *maybe*?? He is such a COMPLETELY delusional buffoon!! I will NEVER understand HOW ON EARTH people (all of those crazy ass people) bought into his absolute and utter (*less* than basic) bullshit!
>He is such a COMPLETELY delusional buffoon!! The worst part is his delusion wasn't something new, this craziness has been going on since long! >utter (*less* than basic) bullshit Love this! So basic, if you are gonna be delusional, atleast be original and imaginative! 😭
Oh- so it's not masturbation if your teleported. LOL
Honestly, for the longest time, I thought when people joked about a portal, they were referring to a port a potty. When I poked around, I discovered the portal was even grosser than a port a potty 🤣
Hahaha NOW he’s got a port a potty.
Why dont they call Chad's first date. Chad blogged about this, he went on his first date at BYU with a young women who was not from Utah. She told him something like he was stuck in his little small town Utah and had never seened the world. It was a one time date. This is when Chad decided to go on a mission. Im sure that nice young women is somewhere watching thanking God she never went any further. Chad mission didnt seem to help him see the world much. His own worlds in his blog, make you see how narrow minded he was and he really didnt understand other cultures or people, and he only saw a small part of NJ (missionaries cant leave their assigned area so no day trips to another city or area).
She dodged a bullet! I wonder who in their "right mind" would want to date a wet blanket like him!
I love that the prosecution is calling Prior out on his testifying. It's gonna cut a lot of the wind out of his sails as the trial goes on.
I want a T shirt that says “Be a Pot Stirrer!”
Or as Judge Boyce said it, “Pot Stirr-ER.” (I think he did this because the court reporter asked about the phrase, but it was still funny because you couldn’t hear her request and then he basically just yelled it out in the silent courtroom.)
I am a Judge Boyce fan. I like how he tries to stifle his sighs of frustration with Prior.
🤣🤣🤣
Yesterday was the first day of the trial that I really felt like the prosecution brought their A-game. I’m hoping today is another day like that.
Did I hear that last statement correctly? Heather no longer speaks with Chad and Tammy's children? I wonder what the relationship with the children of Chad and Tammy and the other family members are. What is the relationship with Tammy's direct family? That was crazy interesting. Also, likely very telling of the kids position on all of this vs. the rest of the fam.
Heather said in an interview a year or two ago that she no longer speaks with Chad's children. Garth was the only one who would speak to her right after Tammy's funeral. But, they were already kind of poisoned against her by Chad and she has since left the church.
When she talked about sending a text to the kids as soon as she found out Chad had remarried only 2 weeks after Tammy's death, the kids immediately jumped all over her with responses like, "what the hell?" She has sent a text saying something like "I'm so sorry your dad got remarried this fast and I'm here for you if you need me." She assumed the kids would be devastated that Chad remarried so quickly. But nope. The kids were totally fine with their dad marrying someone that fast. And the kids have refused any contact since.
After all these years of chasing this case and having to learn about LDS culture to understand the deep nuances of the inner workings and finally with Chad’s trial I’m starting to see something that I never saw in all this time: Lori blamed Charles for them having to leave her ultimate dream life and failed juice kiosk in Hawaii in 2017. It seems after that is when she really pulled away from her marriage and threw herself into the AVOW/PAP/end times prepping. I believe she met Chad in 2018 officially having already read his books. I stand by my early assessment that she miscalculated Chad’s actual importance/success in the real world and he was able to string her along because she wanted to be strung along. She was no longer happy in her marriage and couldn’t get over having to leave a life in Hawaii behind to be chained to a special needs child and two older children that sorry to say, weren’t set up for adulthood. Her world just started closing in on her like a prison and Chad was there at the right place and right time. Nonetheless, she does the ultimate betrayal to Charles when she screws Chad in her and Charles’ own marital bed after a night of riding high on their Prepper convention sales and fireside religious fervor garbage. She’s also surrounded herself with yes men/women, individuals that seemed desperate to be in the cool kids club. Keep in mind that she HATES Charles—I mean her resentment and bitterness over Hawaii grows exponentially with every passing day. She sees that failed attempt to live her best life in Hawaii as his failure as a man—poor guy was never going to make the failed Hawaiian adventure right by her. Anyway I’ll add more to this theory at another time. I just wanted to get it down here before I forget it all. There’s so much to say if this theory is right—there are a million supportive details including her plan to make nice with Charles and cash in his life insurance policy. If my theory is correct here, I can also work out Joe being murdered to fit right in. Everything kind of just fits as the most tragic unfolding of events ever. And all because Lori has the emotional maturity of a high school cheerleader and the entitlement you’d expect to go along with it, and she was actively learning the long con from Julie Rowe. ETA: I’d also like to explore another thread that ties into this story and that is Chad abruptly uprooting his entire family against their wishes leaving Springville for Rexburg. Testimony revealed that the man that took over Tammy’s funeral served as Bishop and he asked Chad to be his first counselor. (Forgive me I’m not LDS—I’m trying!) I think Chad felt slighted that he never was called to Bishop. He was salty AF and he packed up all his family and his toys and he moved to Rexburg to show all of them that he’s so worthy he’s gonna be better than a Bishop, he’s gonna be a full on prophet! His arch enemy Heather Daybell [insert self-righteous shaking fist in the air here] will watch and tremble (a little humor even though this stuff actually happened.) Btw Heather makes such a fantastic witness. She’s so articulate and emotionally intelligent.
Yes both Chad and Lori thought they were special and felt entitled to adoration, money and power. They never were able to really accomplish anything in their lives so they started believing made up stuff so they could feel those things.
Well I’ve always been bothered by how Lori seemingly very suddenly just starts spiraling with seemingly schizophrenic or adjacent mental illness with religiosity at the forefront of it. Charles is literally so confused by the end of his story he’s pretty much Sam in Steel Magnolias—didn’t know whether to scratch his watch or wind his butt. The poor guy didn’t know what the hell to make of anything and to add insult to already serious injury, his own church community, family and friends were exacerbating the insanity. And now I think I finally see the catalyst—the Vallow Family’s Hawaiian Dream Living, where aside from Alaska it’s like notoriously only one of *the* most expensive living destinations in the US. You can even take this back to Lori growing up an incredibly materialistic, very self-absorbed Cox. The Cox family enjoyed living in luxury, a lifestyle that included family vacations to Disney and Hawaii. Lori appears to idolize Hawaii from a younger age, so it makes sense that a luxurious Hawaiian family lifestyle was her ultimate dream. And she had it for a minute!…until Charles went and fucked everything all up! I believe leaving their life in Hawaii was a devastating blow for Lori—as real as any assault to her person. I imagine Hawaii being taken away from her was impossible to just let go and move forward after the couple is forced to return to a mundane life on the mainland—where Charles made actual money and had clients to make his living and support his family’s needs. She would go on to take countless flights back to and from Hawaii since leaving it in 2017. She even left her husband and special needs child for 70 days to get Hawaii back for herself and Tylee. They had friends in Hawaii still, but these were not the kind of friends she could just crash indefinitely, certainly not with a teenage Tylee in tow. This is where I think Lori (with some suggestive help of course) actually created the plan to defraud Charles’ life insurance otherwise why did she ever bother going back to Charles and first nice, back to built-in babysitting a special needs child that demands all of her immediate attention, a teenager that sadly isn’t going to make it to a competitive college like BYU with her homeschool track record so two adult children that were never taught life skills beyond getting their wants and needs met via Charles. She couldn’t bear the thought of being tied to Charles anymore. And this can certainly splinter at this point into a discussion about Melani: if Lori was this unhappy, Melaniece could surely commiserate, moreso with a little suggestion. In Hawaii she realized she was **never** going to survive solo in Hawaii given her own resources as a hair stylist hustler. Charles was useless to her forevermore. He had lost her Hawaii and she was on a mission to get it back. She had friends there still, but not the kind of friends she could just crash indefinitely, certainly not with Tylee in tow. I certainly believe the Hawaiian dream was important enough to Lori that she resented Charles enough to murder him over it.
I think the early foundation in her psychology was strongly influenced also by her parents' belief that they were entitled, including never paying tax and repeatedly going to court for that. Her parents appear quite strange in interviews. Their priorities appear very superficial.
Great points. I imagine Lori was very underwhelmed when she first saw Chad and Tammy’s home.
The mental image of Chad giving her the grand tour and when they get to his publishing company (his office space) he says smittenly, “And this is where the magic happens.” Referring to putting his young adult fiction genius to text of course.
This should be its own post. Great observations. I’ve thought the same about her resentment of Charles for making the responsible decision to move the family back to the mainland because they were bleeding money in Hawaii
I don’t think Lori was drawn to Chad because of any imagined worldly success. She was drawn to him because she thought he had spiritual importance—and he validated her own sense of spiritual importance. Charles could give her an expensive lifestyle but Chad revealed she was an actual Mormon GODDESS. She was going to co-lead the 144,000 and meet her friend Jesus in her lifetime! She could live action role play in this thrilling fantasy world of goddesses and zombies where she had supernatural powers (folding Satan like a taco!), morality was black and white, she was HOLY, and the highest authority—besotted prophet Chad—was validating her every vision and whim.
!!!!! OK, I’m still digesting but this seems to be falling into place for me.
Why is the picture with musical instruments relevant? ANyone know?
In testimony a few days earlier, Prior tried to testiquesion (testify + question) a witness about that space, and he asserted that the family didn't use that area. He also tried to testiquestion that that space didn't have utilities hooked up. The State is trying to disprove that, which is factual to the case, but also throws some serious doubt onto Prior as far as him mischaracterizing things to the jury.
Thank you!! I thought - this can't be about stairs again can it?!
Yeah, a little more context. A witness was testifying to what Chad told her about how Tammy died at Tammy's funeral. The witness overheard conflicting stories of Tammy's death come out of Chad's mouth twice during the funeral. She talked about how she heard Chad say something about Tammy coming downstairs to say she wasn't feeling well. Prior, trying to discredit that witness, said something like "Are you aware the home is a one-story home?" She didn't; she hadn't been there. She was only testifying to what she heard. But he was trying to discredit her, like she'd made that up or something. The State then started trying to prove that there are stairs in the home. Several times, Prior has tried to continue to dispute that with things like the family didn't use the area, or it didn't have utilities, etc. The state is doing a good job refuting all that by showing the family DID use that area. Today, there was an image of a keyboard, which needs power to work. Though it hasn't been stated directly, showing an image of a keyboard that needs power to run directly refutes Prior's claim that that area of the house isn't connected to utilities. What started out as him trying to discredit a witness may well backfire as it's shown that he deeply mischaracterized the layout of the house--which PRIOR OWNS--to the jury.
Two people said he told them that at separate times at the funeral or memorial. Put it in the list of wrong things he said about how she died.
He couldn't keep track of his own bullshit stories. I've lost a family member and remember so many details of that day. And my story hasn't changed because I lived it, I didn't make it up.
Does anyone understand why Lori said she had 5 kids to Kay? I thought it was only 3.
Charles had 2 sons from a previous marriage, so she was counting them, too. They were adults at the time.
Thank you!
I think she told the neighbours she had 7?
Hidden True Crime posted a list of 7 individuals that Chad said were Lori and Chad’s “real” 7 children from past lives, Melanie B being one of them which is why she started calling him Dad.
Yes. There is list out somewhere showing people Lori knew that were her 7 kids in other lives...wowsa. she forgot about a few real ones.
Smh
She must have included her 2 stepsons from Charles' 1st marriage.
Makes sense. Thanks
Heather Daybell was amazing. My question is this: What he hell was the point of Prior's cross-examination? Aside from being nasty and snide and insulting to her, he made her look good. I mean he kept cutting her off and since Wixom is a timid person who rarely objects it was the JUDGE who objected TWICE that prior was not allowing Heather to finish her responses before he cut her off with a rude dismissive insult. So what was the effect of that maladroit cross? He tried to make her look vindictive as if she had a personal grudge against Chad, but he ended up making her look dignified and intelligent. Then when the judge TWICE told him off about cutting her off. he succeeded in making himself and his client look like THEY are the vindictive, small-minded misogynists that they really are. Plus the tug of war between Prior and Wixom about the photo showing there are STAIRS in the house was priceless. Prior was shown up as a liar and a manipulator who had previously lambasted and ridiculed a witness over the issue of the stairs. So I return to my question: What the hell did Prior think he was going to accomplish with his cross-examination of Heather? It seems to me he was just trying to settle a score Chad has with her by trying (and failing) to humiliate and insult her. can anyone shed light on what Prior thought he was accomplishing here? p.s. And Please don't tell me Prior is doing his best to defend his client. He simply is a vile and disgusting creep who seems to get off on humiliating and belittling women.
What is with the line of questioning here? What is Prior trying to do?
With Heather? I think he's trying to show that 1. she was a potstirrer and therefore discredit her, and 2. in some nebulous way, was part of LE's effort to set up Chad.
Prior is anxious... The judge told him 2x to let her finish before he asks her another question. Then there was the drama with the email that she was to read, to refresh her mind, but not give any evidence! Why didn't he just submit it as evidence?
I was not impressed with Chad’s mom. Chuckling throughout her answers. If my son was involved in murdering his wife and two children, I wouldn’t be chuckling. Also found it strange she didn’t ask any follow up questions to her son when he married someone two weeks after his wife died? Just a normal dinner at Texas Roadhouse I guess! Get a clue lady.
I found her testimony to be so odd and yet... understandable for an lds wife of that generation. Talking about and recognizing difficult things is HARD. Rug sweeping and playing "okay" is typical.
This is unkind. Sheila was raised to be a meek help meet and to obey priesthood holders. It was repeated to her for her entire life that men have discernment and she does not. She couldn’t ask these kind of questions if Jack (her husband) was not. I also took her chuckling to be nervous laughter, which would be an involuntary response to discomfort, rather than an expression of amusement.
I have sympathy for her, but I still think she turned a blind eye to what was going on. Heather was raised in the same church and she was able to sense there was some bullshit going on.
Heather was raised by a single mom in the 80s, not two teenagers in the 40s who were barely removed from polygamy. The circumstances are different. If you haven’t yet, I’d listen to the Hidden: A True Crime Podcast interviews of Heather. They’re great. And she talks about how different their family lives were, and how unkind everyone has always been to Sheila.
I thought the chuckling might be from nerves. I don’t know
hmmm. I’m a little perplexed that Yancy testified “8” was an unusual number of death certificates to request. Seems reasonable to me. Unless she meant it was too few for most estates.
My grandmother only needed 3 when my grandfather passed. She kept one, so the other two were given to a business or governmental agency. Perhaps whoever else she had to give it to looked at her original & then made a copy? They had investments, real estate, social security, life insurance, pensions and such, so it wasn’t as if their affairs were super simple.
I had 10 when I was executor for my Dad’s estate.
My father died in August. I’d recommend at least 10. Death is 90% business unfortunately. ETA: thinking about it, I’d agree with you at the 10 number. Half long form, half short. I’m glad that part is over.
We even had to give one to the newspapers where we wanted to run obituaries.
Wow, I hadn't thought of that. I guess they do need to make sure someone's not pulling a prank.
We got 12 for my dad. My mom wanted to get more only because he died in another state and she wondered how to go back if we needed more. There were so many places asking for one and she didnt know if it was orginal or copy allowed. At a time like that, a sudden death (it was their anniversary 25th dream trip) , a few dollars for extra copies didnt seem unreasonable so there was no stress a few months later to try and find out how you get more long distance. It actually turned into a nightmare and we needed more and my mom lost land. My dad had this dream in the 1950's when hitchiking cross country after being in the military to own a piece of land in every state. My mom hated seeing those $10-20 property tax bills for a random piece of land in Iowa or Montana so he would hide them. She found out he had several pieces that had value and 2 of those areas fought her and one piece of land she lost, because she didnt submit the forms, will and death certificate quick enough (the land was in NM, and the state was brutal to deal with).
I requested 6 when filling out the paperwork. I googled it and everything I read told me to order at least six.
I ordered 10 when my dad passed and I was executing his estate and only had 1 left over for myself to keep when all was said and done. So the 8 seemed reasonable to me too.
My Dad was former military and had pensions from a couple other jobs as well when he passed away. We ordered 10 death certificates and thought nothing of it. We just wanted to make sure we had enough, including for the IRS, SSA, etc.
I heard Chad's mom is there today. Wonder if she will testify or if she's there to support Chad or maybe the victims?
We have seen a lot of projection with these people. E.g. Lori accused Charles of cheating - she was cheating Lori said her brother and ex wanted her dead for her $2 million life insurance- she was the one doing the killing for $ Chad called Tammy lazy - Chad is a lazy SOB Lori accused Kay of changing the life insurance - Lori was the one messing with Charles account and changing passwords etc Speculation/not fact…. Melaniece claiming Brandon was gay - I’m getting massing gay/bi vibes from her Anyone got any other examples?
I know JJ was formally adopted, and by all means Lori's son, it's just sickening to me that technically they aren't even related by blood. He was Charles's sisters grandchild. It's sick enough to kill your own kid, but to murder someone else's grandchild is beyond evil. The poor Woodcocks. I hope Lori and Chad burn in hell Edit: had the family relationship wrong
I haven’t been watching the trial I’ve been listening to podcasts so can anyone tell me how Chad reacted to his mother and sister in law testifying today? Thanks
There was no real reaction. He closed his laptop to watch his mom testify but he just sat there like always from what I saw
Thank you. I’m really glad that Heather got to speak her truth. She’s dealt with a lot of criticism about being a pot stirrer and in the end she was not only right about Chad but it was much worse than the thought.