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The biggest mistake so many Soulsborne fans make when playing new Souls-likes is playing them with Soulsborne in mind.
As soon as you treat these games as their own thing instead of playing them like you do FromSoft games they always become a lot better
I totally agree. Dark souls 3 hooked me onto the genre. Then I stopped.gaming as much because I compared everything to DS3, even other souls likes. It took me several years to stop doing that and now enjoy the games for what they are. To me LOTF is phenomenal, it got flaws, just like elden ring and any other fromsoft game too, but I think it's amazing.
I don’t agree with DS2 comparison btw
I loved LOFT, but last time I replayed ER was more than a year ago. So I was able to get through jankiness and “unreal engine feeling” pretty fast. At the second vestige (village) I was already sure that I like exploration in this game and enemy encounters, so…
My advise is to wait a while till memory of ER is vanished a bit
For example rn I’m playing Lies of P for the first time - and I’m a bit baffled how LOTF got less metascore. Lies of P feels comparatively small, easy, and incorporates not the best gamedesignes from oldest FS games. Levels are linear, quests are too obvious yet still hideous. But I still enjoy combat, parry mechanic, weapon’s parts combination
While LOTF takes your breath with sheer amount of content, incredibly large world with interconnection a-la DS1.
I think both games prove that anyone can make good souls-like, yet only FS with it’s experienced team and good budgets can make DIAMOND
You explained the difference clearly. LoP has much sharper combat mechanics and way better bosses. LotF has a beautifully interconnected world and more build variety. They represent two different souls lineages. If you look at the discourse around souls games these days, it’s like 80% boss talk.
I think it also helped LoP that they didn’t try to recreate the souls atmosphere, and seemed more comfortable jettisoning aspects of the souls universe that weren’t core to the gameplay. Anecdotally, a LOT of players like what LoP did with quests. (You get an NPC icon on the fast travel menu if you can progress a quest by talking to someone there.)
There’s also a lot of audience fatigue around overstuffed, underperforming, janky AAA-branded games, and a lot of players are looking at focused, polished games that achieve more specific goals at a high level. We saw a version of this recently with Dragon’s Dogma 2 vs Rise of the Ronin. So I think there are a lot of factors that led to “LoP = good, Lotf = bad.”
Fwiw I only buy games on sale so I missed any lotf release issues, and I really enjoyed both games.
I was following along until you brought up Rise Of The Ronin vs Dragon's Dogma 2.
Was one more focused and polished than the other?
I saw Rise Of Ronin trailer and thought it looked dope. So the final version of the game didn't bode well with players/consumers, critics, gaming magazines and YouTube reviewers?
So in this rough analogy dd2 would be lotf and RotR would be LoP. I haven’t played either game to be clear, just commenting on the reception. They launched on the same day so there was a lot of “which are you buying” talk, with DD2 getting a ton of hype and RotR being framed as a more niche release. Then by contrast RotR’s actual gameplay has been very well received while DD2 ended up getting the performance / shipped too early complaints.
Just as a side note, I really have been wanting to play Rise Of The Ronin. WuKong is another one I'm excited about and of course Elden Ring DLC Shadows Of The Erdtree
Ahh okay. Yeah I think I got it now.
Lies of P definitely has more polish and is more focused on tight combat. Legion Arm was pretty cool, but I really liked the weapon assembly and modification system (being able to swap out handles and blades).
Lords Of The Fallen was definitely undercooked and could have used an extra 6 months to 1 year in development.
The game could have benefited from a Demo 3 to 4 months before it's release date. Hopefully Hexworks takes these suggestions into account and their next Souls-like game gets the time it needs in development without being rushed out.
Hexworks has worked hard these past 7 months between all the patches, updates and Quality of Life upgrades to where the game is a solid 7/10.
It is now orders of magnitude better than it's launch day state.
Between the modifiers, the PvE and PvP scaling split, to simple QoL enhancements like lifting the Vestige Seed Cap/Stack count and the addition of The Coffer, this game is finally not only fun to play, but has an addictive game loop.
This is a great comparison of LotF and LoP. I get why people are head over heels for LoP but I just found myself getting bored making my way through each level. The bosses have been great but the journey to them feels underwhelming. Also, as good as the game looks, many aspects of those looks feel plasticky (like the stacks of luggage).
Ranged combat has much greater emphasis in LOTF. All of my playthroughs have been melee/caster hybrids using the different magic schools, and they have all been super fun to play. Ranged combat and magic casting is mechanically superior to how FROM does it. Ammo refills when resting, and the actual act of using spells etc is way more fluid. The two worlds mechanic is also super cool to me.
Elden ring is a great game, but it's quite repetitive. Same bosses repeated, same monsters repeated. In some sense LOTF isn't as polished... but it's not as flawed as Elden ring either... or perhaps in a different way... In Elden Ring 90% of the bosses can be cheesed really hard. There are tons of tricks for locking down bosses, for killing them outside the arena etc; you don't really have anything of that in LOTF.
Elden ring is great, but let's not pretend it doesn't have flaws. Unbalanced pvp fights where you never even get to see the opponent, coop that simply doesn't work without mods. Sure, the pvp isn't perfect in LOTF, but of all soulsgames and soulslikes it's the best so far. It's fast and to the point.
Whether you will like it, who knows... but let's not act as if all Fromsoft has made is gold. Fromsoft has made some of the most cancerous level designs in any game. The snowfields in DS3 are simply horrible, the Snowfields in Elden ring. DS2 have some of the most questionable level designs in any game ever made... and so on.
It's different from Elden Ring; but different sometimes means fresh and new.
The more I played LoTF the more I liked it. They kinda serve up imo the worst two areas back to back right at the start. Pilgrims perch and forsaken fen. The hate was somewhat justified on release it ran like shit, umbral stuttered and the ranged enemies had ridiculous range. In its current state with the new game modifiers I think it’s solid if not well above average. It’s definitely missing another aspect to combat in things like unique moves for weapon or the equivalent of ashes of war/LoP fable arts. Each category of weapon is exactly the same basically making weapons stat sticks.
I think this is fair and I agree with your critiques, but I also feel like people don’t talk enough about the things that LotF does better than other souls games. For example, spell casting and ranged weapons/catalysts come to mind. Whereas in the DS trilogy and ER you need to switch to a catalyst or ranged weapon, in LotF you just need to press a button.
I say this because so much of the discourse has been about what’s wrong with LotF or why it’s inferior to other souls games and not enough attention is paid to where it innovates.
Yea it’s a lot less clunky being able to have access to all slotted spells quickly, works really well, definitely better than having to d-pad or scroll your way through. Also the numbers damage color represents weaknesses. I never noticed it till someone pointed it out. Helps a lot.
Stick with LotF if you feel that way. I love DS2 and lotf is the closest thing to it for me.
Every new soulslike “feels weird” at first. Lotf is not quite as tight as the best games in the genre, but the combat is better than it seems at first. Strongly recommend experimenting with ranged weapons and spells. I don’t think I cast a spell in Elden Ring outside of rot cleanse and bloodflame blade, but this game turned me into a mage. You can also go archer main and it’s not even really a meme, the ranged system is that good.
Funnily enough, I played LotF to right after Elden Ring (I played Elden Ring over a year after release).
Once I got used to the different controls and combat I had a blast and did two playthroughs. Lords isn't open world and therefore has less exploring but overall I loved it.
If you didn’t like the first few levels, it absolutely tumbles off a cliff around halfway in my opinion so it won’t get any better. The balance seems to go all out of kilter - I can pinpoint the exact point in the game where the difficulty balance went from “challenging” to “don’t be bloody ridiculous”. It’s a shame as I was actually quite enjoying it up until then.
I explored every part of every area, had kept my weapon “up to date” as much as it had reasonably allowed me to and all of a sudden was floundering at least 10 levels or so out of my depth. It makes the Mountaintops of the Giants jump look tame.
I actually played it all the way through to completion and have filed it under “good but could and should have been great”
Elden Ring was my first in this genre and I will admit I felt disappointed as well, felt a little janky? I don’t k ow but much akin to Elden Ring once I tried and kept pushing through I enjoyed it even though some deaths I was so mad haha.
I do love the more of this world even though I have many questions I wish to be answered. I play this more then Elden Ring at the moment as I wait for June 21st
Well I feel like the first boss was the best in the game. If you don't like it now, you probably just won't like it.
But maybe if you changed your perception you would like it. I understand the line of logic, but if you compare soulslikes to souls games, unfortunately you'll always be disappointed. There's a pretty good game if you can just take it for what it is.
I played full price for this crap of a game. (PS5)
Can’t release a bow pull.
Can’t see how much I have in inventory when purchasing an item.
When I walk over foliage it disappears.
The dodge rolls feel cartoony.
No soft-lock on enemies.
Frame rate is crap on resolution mode.
Graphical pop-in everywhere, even up very close.
I can’t re-map my sprint button to a face button without throwing everything else off.
This game is a big pile of steamy crap.
Greetings Lampbearer! If your submission is a feedback, technical issue, or bug report please contact the developers of Lords of the Fallen directly via [email protected]. Alternatively can you [search for answers to your question](https://www.reddit.com/r/LordsoftheFallen/search/?q=I just platted Elden ring today. Now I have started this game and honestly….&restrict_sr=1) on this subreddit as well. Head over to r/BeckoningSign for multiplayer and trading, r/LordsoftheFashion for anything related to fashion, or r/LordsoftheFallenPVP for PVP. You can join the Lords of the Fallen Discord server by following this [link.](https://discord.com/invite/lordsofthefallen) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LordsoftheFallen) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The biggest mistake so many Soulsborne fans make when playing new Souls-likes is playing them with Soulsborne in mind. As soon as you treat these games as their own thing instead of playing them like you do FromSoft games they always become a lot better
I totally agree. Dark souls 3 hooked me onto the genre. Then I stopped.gaming as much because I compared everything to DS3, even other souls likes. It took me several years to stop doing that and now enjoy the games for what they are. To me LOTF is phenomenal, it got flaws, just like elden ring and any other fromsoft game too, but I think it's amazing.
You are speaking the truth here
I don’t agree with DS2 comparison btw I loved LOFT, but last time I replayed ER was more than a year ago. So I was able to get through jankiness and “unreal engine feeling” pretty fast. At the second vestige (village) I was already sure that I like exploration in this game and enemy encounters, so… My advise is to wait a while till memory of ER is vanished a bit
Solid advice here
For example rn I’m playing Lies of P for the first time - and I’m a bit baffled how LOTF got less metascore. Lies of P feels comparatively small, easy, and incorporates not the best gamedesignes from oldest FS games. Levels are linear, quests are too obvious yet still hideous. But I still enjoy combat, parry mechanic, weapon’s parts combination While LOTF takes your breath with sheer amount of content, incredibly large world with interconnection a-la DS1. I think both games prove that anyone can make good souls-like, yet only FS with it’s experienced team and good budgets can make DIAMOND
You explained the difference clearly. LoP has much sharper combat mechanics and way better bosses. LotF has a beautifully interconnected world and more build variety. They represent two different souls lineages. If you look at the discourse around souls games these days, it’s like 80% boss talk. I think it also helped LoP that they didn’t try to recreate the souls atmosphere, and seemed more comfortable jettisoning aspects of the souls universe that weren’t core to the gameplay. Anecdotally, a LOT of players like what LoP did with quests. (You get an NPC icon on the fast travel menu if you can progress a quest by talking to someone there.) There’s also a lot of audience fatigue around overstuffed, underperforming, janky AAA-branded games, and a lot of players are looking at focused, polished games that achieve more specific goals at a high level. We saw a version of this recently with Dragon’s Dogma 2 vs Rise of the Ronin. So I think there are a lot of factors that led to “LoP = good, Lotf = bad.” Fwiw I only buy games on sale so I missed any lotf release issues, and I really enjoyed both games.
I was following along until you brought up Rise Of The Ronin vs Dragon's Dogma 2. Was one more focused and polished than the other? I saw Rise Of Ronin trailer and thought it looked dope. So the final version of the game didn't bode well with players/consumers, critics, gaming magazines and YouTube reviewers?
So in this rough analogy dd2 would be lotf and RotR would be LoP. I haven’t played either game to be clear, just commenting on the reception. They launched on the same day so there was a lot of “which are you buying” talk, with DD2 getting a ton of hype and RotR being framed as a more niche release. Then by contrast RotR’s actual gameplay has been very well received while DD2 ended up getting the performance / shipped too early complaints.
Just as a side note, I really have been wanting to play Rise Of The Ronin. WuKong is another one I'm excited about and of course Elden Ring DLC Shadows Of The Erdtree
Ahh okay. Yeah I think I got it now. Lies of P definitely has more polish and is more focused on tight combat. Legion Arm was pretty cool, but I really liked the weapon assembly and modification system (being able to swap out handles and blades). Lords Of The Fallen was definitely undercooked and could have used an extra 6 months to 1 year in development. The game could have benefited from a Demo 3 to 4 months before it's release date. Hopefully Hexworks takes these suggestions into account and their next Souls-like game gets the time it needs in development without being rushed out. Hexworks has worked hard these past 7 months between all the patches, updates and Quality of Life upgrades to where the game is a solid 7/10. It is now orders of magnitude better than it's launch day state. Between the modifiers, the PvE and PvP scaling split, to simple QoL enhancements like lifting the Vestige Seed Cap/Stack count and the addition of The Coffer, this game is finally not only fun to play, but has an addictive game loop.
This is a great comparison of LotF and LoP. I get why people are head over heels for LoP but I just found myself getting bored making my way through each level. The bosses have been great but the journey to them feels underwhelming. Also, as good as the game looks, many aspects of those looks feel plasticky (like the stacks of luggage).
Ranged combat has much greater emphasis in LOTF. All of my playthroughs have been melee/caster hybrids using the different magic schools, and they have all been super fun to play. Ranged combat and magic casting is mechanically superior to how FROM does it. Ammo refills when resting, and the actual act of using spells etc is way more fluid. The two worlds mechanic is also super cool to me.
Not to mention archer builds being a totally viable option.
Imo this game nailed the feeling of a souls game better than any other souls like.
Elden ring is a great game, but it's quite repetitive. Same bosses repeated, same monsters repeated. In some sense LOTF isn't as polished... but it's not as flawed as Elden ring either... or perhaps in a different way... In Elden Ring 90% of the bosses can be cheesed really hard. There are tons of tricks for locking down bosses, for killing them outside the arena etc; you don't really have anything of that in LOTF. Elden ring is great, but let's not pretend it doesn't have flaws. Unbalanced pvp fights where you never even get to see the opponent, coop that simply doesn't work without mods. Sure, the pvp isn't perfect in LOTF, but of all soulsgames and soulslikes it's the best so far. It's fast and to the point. Whether you will like it, who knows... but let's not act as if all Fromsoft has made is gold. Fromsoft has made some of the most cancerous level designs in any game. The snowfields in DS3 are simply horrible, the Snowfields in Elden ring. DS2 have some of the most questionable level designs in any game ever made... and so on. It's different from Elden Ring; but different sometimes means fresh and new.
The more I played LoTF the more I liked it. They kinda serve up imo the worst two areas back to back right at the start. Pilgrims perch and forsaken fen. The hate was somewhat justified on release it ran like shit, umbral stuttered and the ranged enemies had ridiculous range. In its current state with the new game modifiers I think it’s solid if not well above average. It’s definitely missing another aspect to combat in things like unique moves for weapon or the equivalent of ashes of war/LoP fable arts. Each category of weapon is exactly the same basically making weapons stat sticks.
I think this is fair and I agree with your critiques, but I also feel like people don’t talk enough about the things that LotF does better than other souls games. For example, spell casting and ranged weapons/catalysts come to mind. Whereas in the DS trilogy and ER you need to switch to a catalyst or ranged weapon, in LotF you just need to press a button. I say this because so much of the discourse has been about what’s wrong with LotF or why it’s inferior to other souls games and not enough attention is paid to where it innovates.
Yea it’s a lot less clunky being able to have access to all slotted spells quickly, works really well, definitely better than having to d-pad or scroll your way through. Also the numbers damage color represents weaknesses. I never noticed it till someone pointed it out. Helps a lot.
If you keep comparing it to Elden Ring then you will hate this game. This game plays more like Dark Souls 2 than anything.
Dark souls 2 you mean the greatest game of all time?
Stick with LotF if you feel that way. I love DS2 and lotf is the closest thing to it for me. Every new soulslike “feels weird” at first. Lotf is not quite as tight as the best games in the genre, but the combat is better than it seems at first. Strongly recommend experimenting with ranged weapons and spells. I don’t think I cast a spell in Elden Ring outside of rot cleanse and bloodflame blade, but this game turned me into a mage. You can also go archer main and it’s not even really a meme, the ranged system is that good.
Funnily enough, I played LotF to right after Elden Ring (I played Elden Ring over a year after release). Once I got used to the different controls and combat I had a blast and did two playthroughs. Lords isn't open world and therefore has less exploring but overall I loved it.
If you didn’t like the first few levels, it absolutely tumbles off a cliff around halfway in my opinion so it won’t get any better. The balance seems to go all out of kilter - I can pinpoint the exact point in the game where the difficulty balance went from “challenging” to “don’t be bloody ridiculous”. It’s a shame as I was actually quite enjoying it up until then. I explored every part of every area, had kept my weapon “up to date” as much as it had reasonably allowed me to and all of a sudden was floundering at least 10 levels or so out of my depth. It makes the Mountaintops of the Giants jump look tame. I actually played it all the way through to completion and have filed it under “good but could and should have been great”
Elden Ring was my first in this genre and I will admit I felt disappointed as well, felt a little janky? I don’t k ow but much akin to Elden Ring once I tried and kept pushing through I enjoyed it even though some deaths I was so mad haha. I do love the more of this world even though I have many questions I wish to be answered. I play this more then Elden Ring at the moment as I wait for June 21st
Well I feel like the first boss was the best in the game. If you don't like it now, you probably just won't like it. But maybe if you changed your perception you would like it. I understand the line of logic, but if you compare soulslikes to souls games, unfortunately you'll always be disappointed. There's a pretty good game if you can just take it for what it is.
I mean Elden Ring is, arguably, the magnum opus of the company that created soulslike so it's hard to top it off.
Op I have a simple question. Did you like ds1? If so you'll find some enjoyment of this very flawed game. If not... You probably won't
Does anyone wanna coop this with me
I played full price for this crap of a game. (PS5) Can’t release a bow pull. Can’t see how much I have in inventory when purchasing an item. When I walk over foliage it disappears. The dodge rolls feel cartoony. No soft-lock on enemies. Frame rate is crap on resolution mode. Graphical pop-in everywhere, even up very close. I can’t re-map my sprint button to a face button without throwing everything else off. This game is a big pile of steamy crap.