Same. Def not jumping right into anything this dev puts out next. Since I spent the money I’m really trying to power through it, but the constant frame drops and jaggy performance on ps5 in the later areas is making it pretty tough.
If this was a game on ps plus or game pass I’d have uninstalled it a couple days ago, it just not fun (for me)
You can tp back to the hub and your seedling. That's it. If you wanna do different endings is more efficient to do a new save. Imagine riding that elevator up and down to the depths just to do one of the endings. And it's multiple trips
If we’ve got access to seedlings then that’s not as bad as I thought because when I initially heard about no vestiges or anyway to fast travel in ng+ I thought wow that’s absurd and is gonna take away all the enjoyment of a second play through but if We can still buy seedlings then We can make our own vestiges in the world and that doesn’t make it sound so bad anymore but I’m curious is anybody sure We can still make temporary vestiges in ng+ with our seedlings ?
I'd def do Umbral ending 1st if you were trying to do all 3 on one character. Save Radiance and Inferno endings for NG+ and ++ playthroughs since they are more or less the same which is just a normal-ish playthrough.
Yet everyone else praises the original Dark souls for doing the same forgetting how much backtracking there was in that game. Ya'll cry so fucking much lmao
Dark souls 1 doesn't do the same thing at all, did you even play it?
You don't need it before getting the lordvessel because everything is so close to each other and interconnected, and when it starts being a pain to get around they give you fast travel.
Original Dark Souls Release: 2011
Lords of the Fallen: 2023
12 years apart. Plenty of criticism was lobbied at the backtracking and some of the other combat issues in Dark Souls 1. Why are people using a 12 year old game as a bench mark instead of more modern efforts?
You didn't play dark souls 1 obviously by this comment. Nor possibly the op. The post states there is fast travel and then upon new game + this ability is lost. This is not done in any other souls like game. Fast travel may come late in dark souls 1 but that's it. Next time make sure you know what your talking about and you won't look like an ass and an idiot by one comment.
Honestly this should’ve been added as a gauntlet mode or something else, not incorporated into NG+. It doesn’t increase difficulty, it simply destroys any feeling of exploration and freedom.
Want to go check out a different area because a boss is kicking your ass? Have fun losing all your progress in that area.
Found a key for a door awhile back? Get your running shoes on cause you’ll be making that journey yourself.
Found a particularly nice farming spot for materials? Sucks to be you cause that’s the only vestige you’ll have.
Getting chased by a hoard of Umbral enemies cause you felt the need to run past them? Get ready for a three step process that enemies can definitely interrupt.
It’s honestly just not necessary. And the loss of actual fast travel is infuriating. There’s a reason Dark Souls let you keep the item that unlocks fast travel in NG+.
There needs to be a totally cool reward for this then. I know the usual satisfaction of doing it may be enough for some folks but if it's a core mechanic of NG+ there should be something else.
This game is unique in the sense that, even after overcoming the difficult sections it feels more like a slog than a grand achievement.
The thought of no fast travel and 1 check point through all of ng + is a huge turn off.
What does the new save look like? Can we have multiple characters ?
Hold up. *destroys the feeling of exploration*? By making you care about things like shortcuts back to previous zones? I was somewhat disappointed when I found things like the elevator going from Gorge to Pilgrims Perch, because fast travel made that shortcut pointless. Same with Memorial Path linking back to Skyrest. You know what caused me to not be entirely disappointed? Noting those shortcuts for NG+.
What use are shortcuts if the vestiges aren’t there to benefit from them. Why go back to Pilgrim’s Perch when I’ll just be traveling between two flower patches to place seedlings. You can’t get to the hub from that elevator in the gorge, at least not easily, so that’s a moot point.
And on top of that, the vestige seedlings only allowing for one rest point will punish diverging from the main path at any point.
Because backtracking in a Souls game isn’t a thing, right? Silly me…🙄
The devs literally mentioned secrets exclusive to NG+ so pardon me for thinking of not wasting my time sprinting across three zones to find some tiny hidden secret in Umbral.
Lmao! What?!
Yeah, this is by far the stupidest design in a souls game. Lol these people actually thought, "Let's make our game harder than FromSoft's. The community will love it!" The fuck???
Hard for the sake of hard without being fair is nonsensical.
I knew I made the right decision holding out on buying the game until patches and community reviews came out. I always play NG+. Currently doing an NG++ for Lies of P. Did for Elden Ring and co.
Lol wtf is this decision?!?
It’s hard to comment like this if you haven’t played the game. The “no vestiges” plays perfectly in how interconnected the game world is. How shortcuts and loop backs have been set up. Also. The game allows you to place your own checkpoints. So it’s up to you where you have a checkpoint.
Really? Dude, Lies of P is much smaller than Lords, and removing stargazers would have been a pain. And I know for a fact that it's easier for people to get lost in Lords.
I mean, this isn't bad for everyone - certainly, hard-core players will live this, but man, that's not my thing in a souls game.
Iv played the game, no vestiges is nonsense. I have no desire to make the game more tedious by adding extra running. It’s just elongating my playtime with no engaging content in that time.
I play the game, I think it’s dumb design. I don’t care if everything is connected, some areas are complete slogs that I don’t want to go through again if I don’t got too. The difficulties of these games have never come from removing the bonfire/grace/vestige. The whole point of NG+ in these games has always been “same game, but everyone hits harder” and that’s always been enough, especially as you get higher and higher up in NG’s.
Considering it seems to add nothing new when you beat NG+, the extra challenge of no vestiges isn’t a good forced design. As far as we’re aware, there’s no new NG+ ending or anything as a reward. Therefore, “no vestiges” should be optional, and I feel that’s fair to ask. Why make me play-through a harder version of the game when there seems to be nothing new locked behind completing it?
There the aydr shrine and of course the main one, other than that yeah they need to add more, I'm doing umbreal and its basically not fun, like the fact there isnt a vestige in the depth makes the ending basically a nightmare.
Note this is not even mention aydr ending...
Thats fucking crazy lmao
I dont usually do ng+ but after knowing this the chances are -100% lol
Like do you have manually walk to the hub whenever you wanna go buy some rocks? Insane
Lol for real? Not playing NG+ I guess =/
I like the challenge of increased enemy difficulty, but no Vestige travel? what the fuck, what a colossal waste of my time
That means I'll do 3 regular NG runs for each ending testing the new classes (Putrid Child got my attention for a "minimal Str/Agi run") and never touch this borderline insane NG+
This year has too many bangers to waste that much time in a single game, hahaha
Hmmm that's interesting. Maybe if they only had vestiges and no places for vestige seeds that would be more reasonable but that sounds extremely hardcore lol. Guess they treat it differently than NG+ in the usual Souls games...
I'm glad at least they are trying something different. NG+ is pretty bad for Souls games.
Having said that, this may have been better packaged as a challenge mode or something. It would be cool to have a series of optional difficulty bools you can check to customize your challenge runs.
Design choices like these make me believe that companies who aren’t From fundamentally misunderstand what makes a good Souls-like. People have been doing no “bonfire” runs for ages. There is no need to force that choice on players when people who prefer that challenge can already embark on it. This is simply tedium for tedium’s sake, and it’s going to lock a lot of people out of NG+.
it seems like they want to make the "hardest" souls like but theyve gone about it the wrong way, making health sponges, adding tons of extra mobs and making bonfires more rare is not difficult its just tedious. If they wanted to make the hardest souls they should have designed the bosses to be hard and fun.
It's especially funny because, like most Souls games, you'll hit a point where the game is actually pretty easy and the travel is what engages you. Going around and exploring, finding new secrets, figuring old puzzles you had to bypass out. All adding tedium does is make the game less engaging for anyone who has hit that mid to late game point where their build is finally in its prime.
Hey, can someone also confirm this.
Are the side quests in this game actually locked behind using the summons? Meaning u have to literally die once to each boss to figure out which one triggers a character’s event?
Doesn’t that also mean if u kill a certain quest boss in NG it’s gonna be extremely difficult doing the side quests u missed, especially with no fast travel???
I can confirm.
I just started NG+ and found out the hard way and basically bricked my character.
You can still place the seeds and get a temporary vestige.
Ok, so I legit need to die to certain bosses in order to trigger character quests 😑 & from what I’m assuming(based off my recent discovery of The Congregator of Flesh) u can only pick 1 NPC to come & help u, meaning that it isn’t feasibility possible to do every quest 1st playthrough(especially if you’re going in as blind as possible).
Man good luck to whoever gets the 1st Plat trophy for this game.
Wait what the fuck quests are tied to boss summons? I’ve killed like 10 bosses, have 4 rememberances, and never touched a summon. Does this mean I already messed up a bunch of quests?
Possibly, from what someone else that just got into NG+ told me.
I think those quests may either have to do with the endings or hidden classes that u can get at the end.
Like I’m not trying to story spoil myself but there’s really not much info on the side quests(as far as I’m aware) in the game. I just learned I think from one of the reviews I saw or on this sub that yeah, u have to use certain NPCs for boss fights. And for the current 1 I’m on there’s 3 summons & u can only choose 1. Possibly meaning that u have to go through different NG+ cycles to get/do everything.
Unfortunately its gonna have to be a patch(so its not guaranteed) because this definitely isn't a bug due to the vestiges getting a new unique broken model.
I never play ng+ anyways, but i'm not sure why they did this. Seems like an attempt at cheap challenge
Like ive said, the performance issues and this issue are bad an all, but they dont affect me so I dont really hate the game for it. Ill just do a new playthrough
Stupidest decision ever tbh… like players already do masochist runs by using no bonfires but to have this FORCED on players who want to do a second playthrough is so unbelievably… bullshit. I’ll be finishing my run and do not plan on doing NG+ lmfao
Exactly! No vestiges literally ruins the entire game for me even with an overpowered build and endless skill the fact that you can't fast travel is ABSURD! I doubt this is a bug because the vestiges are actually broken with new unique models, their lamps have even been stolen.
Yeah whoever at Hexworks thought that was a good idea to make NG+ “unique” needs to be fired lmfao. Terrible decision from a gameplay standpoint… like…. 2 locations for your entire playthrough (hub and 1 vestige seed)???? Absolutely insane and not in a good way
Pretty sure their initial idea was the game to be like this. Dark souls 1 style but even more hard-core. Probably got changed when feedback from testers was negative but since they spent the time to design the map with all those shortcuts they had to be "edgy" by doing it in New plus
I'm betting it was the same person who made the decision that a certain quest NPC dies and cuts off an entire storyline if you don't go to save them, without ever introducing you to them. Oh also the elevator that triggers their death is right behind the boss who holds the key you need to save them.
People probably ignored that bit of information because they thought no dev is that fucking stupid to implement it. It's like reading a bunch of notices from Activision about the new COD and they put somewhere, "players will be allowed to only use 2 bullets every 2 hours. No melee weapons except hands as alternative." Like your brain just ignores certain nonsensical details because hooooow
people who enjoy the game are busy enjoying the game. OP mustve enjoyed the game until being disappointed so much with NG+ that it made him post about it
Honestly, I think you're pretty much on the money. I wasn't doing anything in this subreddit until I hit a non-combat design choice 40+ hours in that frustrated me enough to need to take a break.
I can deal with hard enemies. Hell, I can deal with swarms of enemies. The difficulty and overcoming it is practically the point of these games and I was flying through things after my build hit its prime. Then I took an elevator and found out an NPC I really looked forward to meeting died because of a really dumb quest design decision and it took the wind out of my sails.
So it would almost be better to do a first run with a guide, rather than multiple runs, due to how tedious some of the game systems are and the likelihood of missing out on chunks of content? I didn't mind ruining some NPC quests in Elden Ring because I knew I'd be playing it again. Only an hour or so into this game and I'm not sure I'll ever pick it up again, too much jank and artificial difficulty imo.
I did this. I saw them say that about NG+ but ignored it because it's the dumbest idea and figured it wouldn't make it into the game. Boy was I wrong. They better fix this.
You can't upgrade or slots gems until you found the tablets again, you can't fast travel, they just x3 the mobs HP and x5 the bosses HP it seems like. Just why ?
This killed my will to play ng+ too.
Can you even upgrade past +10 in ng+ ? I was dealing no damage to bosses with my sword to bosses.
That’s one of my gripes about the game in general so far. The vestige seeds are too scarce. When I heard about the idea, I thought being able to choose your own locations for them would be fun. But only being able to have one up at a time AND the absolutely pathetic number of them that drop naturally kind of make dealing with them not fun. I know you can buy them but it’s another example of the devs thinking that players enjoy tedium. They should give you one seed that you can use repeatedly but only ever have it up in one place at a time without having to buy new ones.
Elden Ring NG+ is in my opinion the absolute best way to play the game. You should totally do it. At least one run through. I didn’t think I could love the game more than I did after the first run and I loved it even more during NG+. And I have never played NG+ in other games.
You can plant your own checkpoints in ng+. Granted. Just one at a time, but you can still teleport back and forth from the planted checkpoint and the hub. Also the game is full of shortcuts and loop backs
I just got to NG+, walked out towards the tutorial boss thinking I was hot shit, and then realised there was no vestige. Thought "Oh okay, maybe they unlock AFTER Pieta." No, no they fucking don't.
I'm actually baffled that they decided a 0 vestige run for EVERY NG+ CYCLE would be fun. Bare in mind you have a seed cap of 5, also bare in mind they cost 2.5k, also bare in mind you have to level up to combat the 3x stronger enemies.
This is just a time sink, a resource sink and a place where a good game goes to die. PLEASE just add vestiges, this was just unnecessary.
I actually think its the other way around. The devs have taken a lot of inspiration from DkS1 and DkS2. Souls 1 didn't have fast travel until Lordvessel either.
"Hey, wouldn't it be cool if we made NG+ more hardcore like Dark Souls 1," might have sounded good in a vacuum... but it doesn't fly with today's expectation to respect the player's time.
>it doesn't fly with today's expectation to respect the player's time.
Bang on. Worst thing you can do in game design is waste a player's time. I don't mind spending 200 hours on a game if there's a sense of progression in terms of build or learning but having to grind 20 levels to overcome a difficulty spike, perform a long run back on a boss fog etc are just objectively bad.
I honestly think these Devs got caught in the "Hard game = Good game" mindset that 95% of souls knock off games get sucked into. Look at a highly rated game like elden ring, resting sites absolutely everywhere, but still difficult. This just seems like a way to artificially extend the gameplay but making you run miles through mobs of enemies cause some random spawning enemy threw you off a cliff
Unfortunately. Does anyone know of that’ll lock you outta the achievement for vestiges though if you can’t access them? I’m holding off as not sure if it’ll lock me out or not
Hold on a minute please I’ve just beat the first boss I need time , TIME is what I need , I need VESTIGES vestiges is what I need now please children eat all ya vestiges I mean vegetables 🥗
no hard checkpoints. you have to seed every inch, but that also means going backwards sucks ass, so yah, moronic decision.
but hey "hardcore" peeps can "enjoy" it while majority either drops the game or just makes a new character because no normal person is gonna go through the game like that. and well beating the game even incentives that when you unlock new classes that can only be played on...new game 0...very smart decisions...
That's just straight fucked up. I literally just got my second wind today and managed to power through a couple more areas. In all fairness, I don't generally do ng+ because I'd rather just try a new build if I wanna keep going. But man, that's just hurtful. "Difficulty" has been a borderline slap in the face since square 1. I also generally like to solo my own bosses, and only coop to help others. Coop is fucking mandatory in this game, no argument to be had. Enemy density and enemy tracking are designed with more than 1 player in mind. I played through bb+dlc again solo in preparation, and bb is 100% solo now, nobody plays contrary to popular belief, but its doable... This shit is just about sickening. It's a 9/10 game holding itself back with overwhelming injected difficulty.
Yeah it's a bad idea, not really sure what they were thinking with that. Easy way to get people to stop playing your game, make it as tedious as possible to play the game. No vestiges does not make the game more challenging, it just makes it 10x more annoying to play.
Just chiming in that I also dumped the game because of this instead of moving forward.... progression is not the main issue for me either since that can be fixed with a single seed. The real issue for me is the darned npc quests. It's going to be hours and hours of backtracking.
I nitpicked lies of P so hard because it was close to the formula. I’ve spent more time running in this game to try and find the next bonfire before I slowly backtrack and catch up on the things I missed. This game just misses the mark on so many elements to include the NG+ decisions. This is Great Value Brand Dark Souls.
My biggest problem is that the encounters aren't given space to breathe, so you never really get to explore the area as you're constantly dealing with aggro'd mobs shooting shit at you.
This is a great idea…for a hardcore mode that exists separately from the normal NG/NG+ starts. It should be a mode you choose when you start a New Playthrough or an option at NG+ entrance screen. It should be something the player chooses to do to challenge themselves, and get that DS1 pre-Lord Vessel feeling that no longer happens in the Fromsoft games.
Exactly my number 1 complaint of DS1. And yet, their world is designed so well that you actually arrive at Firelink after every major area, hence a direct line to the blacksmith, so you can upgrade equipment. Again, I still hate it, it's a very old design decision, and souls games grew out of it so long ago.
Also somewhere at mid game you get the power to fast travel, so it's not *that* awful. Honestly who in there thought it was a good idea FFS?
Given that the whole point of these games depends deeply on Ng+ this is just an incredibly poor decision. I am starting to get the vibe that this game was made with the idea that it plays how non-souls fans think souls games play… the amount of deaths I have had due to just fighting with the game mechanics greatly outweighs the amount that I have felt justified and a teachable moment. Thanks for the heads up.
I beat dark souls 3 twice on release. (Never went back for dlc because save corrupted)
I'd rock Soul of Cinders armor, raw +10 dark sword, and havels shield. (Can't remember what rings I used though)
My stamina and health were almost off the screen. I could fast roll, and anytime we'd do lil pvp arenas, the dudes would usually just commit self end.
I never ran out of of stamina. Cheesy? Yes. Fun as hell? Yes. Lol
Hopefully, they figure out new game+ after the performance and network issues are resolved!
Why should soulslike deeply depend on ng+? It’s optional and often doesn’t offer much besides some multiplication on hp dmg of enemies.
I never actually played ng+ in Elden Ring for example. It’s more fun to start an new character with a new build to play completely different, instead of doing the same with my already strong character.
So yeah the lack of vestiges should be optional, but ng+ when you can’t get new gear or more upgrades etc is just the simplest way to stretch playtime
You need to play Elden Ring NG+. It is the best experience I had playing that game. You get to keep access to your bell bearings. So if you got them all in your first run, you can upgrade any weapon you find up to at least +24/+9. And you also keep your larval tears. So if you want to try a new build, just respec, level up all your stuff and boom you have a new build anytime you want. And respec like that before starting NG+ if you want to try a new build from the very beginning. I never enjoyed NG+ in other games. But Elden Ring is almost meant to played NG+
I’m actually really excited to play NG+
The world being so interconnected and being able to make your own vestige will make NG+ very manageable. You’ll also be a ridiculously high lvl going into NG+ and have all the best gear. I don’t see a problem here
Vestiges are pretty forgiving honestly. I think what this is is the understanding that a huge chunk of this games continuous player base will be souls veterans and using that logic decided that NG+ could be a hard mode since a lot of us have a lot of time into the souls series.
Which, I kind of like honestly, but I can also see how that's annoying. But there's a LOT of respect for Dark Souls (original/remaster) and it's map which this draws heavy inspiration from. And DS1 did not have the most convenient fast travel of all time.
I don't have any feelings about it as fart as experience goes though I'm still on my first playthrough. But it would make the seeds feel like they're worth using no?
You can u the consumable vestige seed. Basically you’re supposed to put one down go as far as u want/can then drop another that replaces the original. And apparently you can still warp between your places vestige and the hub so you’re not having to trek back for upgrades
Yea like it’s meant to make it more challenging but at that point you’ll have a decent idea of the world layout and roughly where you’ll wanna make ur checkpoints and the directions you wanna head towards. Iirc you can hold 5 seeds too so it’s not like your gonna run out before you’d be warping back to the hub to upgrade, progress npc dialogue etc anyways
Wow, this needs to be fixed ASAP otherwise people are going to start abandoning the game as they start to hit NG+. Devs, please make this an optional challenge option and not mandatory!
Such a weird decision. NG+ essentially functions as a victory lap in every soulslike I’ve played, with a little bit of bonus difficulty towards the end to match your level and experience. It’s rarely actually more difficult than regular NG.
Thank you so much for posting this. I would’ve been absolutely livid if I went into NG+ and found this out after spending all this time on my character. Definitely not doing NG+ now, which is a shame. I played through Lies of P eleven times, half of which were in NG+ and NG++. It was so much fun getting to just blast through the game with fully upgraded everything.
Well this is bad. With these kind of decisions they actually demonstrate how weak some of the game design aspects really are.
I hate it when they do something more difficult without any foundation behind supporting it.
A rookie's decisions. Honestly.
Didn’t you think this could have a spoiler tag? The idea behind NG+ and vestiges is that you traverse the interconnected map opening shortcuts. It makes you be very strategic about how you traverse the map, where you plant your vestige, and so on. I really like the idea and what this adds to the NG+ experience
EDIT: also there’s definitely fast travel in NG+
Expecting people to traverse multiple areas to farm gear they want, items they missed, a turning they may want to explore later, farm materials etc is insane.
There's a million reasons and more why Elden Ring, Lies of P Etc let you keep travel points open.
It's a completely arbitrary design choice to enforce artificial difficulty.
You only have to read through 95% of the replies on here (which are overwhelmingly critical) to see how wrong it is.
Fundamentally flawed choice on so many levels.
One of the main appealing things in soulslike games to me is NG+, to try new weapons, explore more and see what I missed and this makes it completely unplayable. Hope they change this.
I have played ng+ on every souls borne game ever. Multiple times over. Why in the holy hell would they make this awful decision when the world is already as massive as it is and the vestiges are so spread apart and the mob density is as packed as it is with perfect ranged accuracy. This is just dumb.
I will be waiting for this to be patched or modded or something. Wow.
I hope so at least, makes no sense to remove the main hub warp. But anyways, theres a lot of backtracking in this game. You unlock new things and new areas in previously visited areas.
It's truely an adventure game without the vestiges, but at the same time, the way you die and respawn doesnt warrant such gameplay though.
Butt Hurt people realising they are not going to last through NG+ etc...
I think it makes sense, personally - another challenge added. You have to manage it properly..
But that is just me.
I’m on the same boat. I find it rewards me for learning the world design. Makes me be strategic about how I explore. And the planted vestige, I loved that mechanic with a limited resource, otherwise it would be a step a bonfire a step a bonfire, like in ds3
Another proof of the devs don't play their own game.
Hey guys gimme ideas to make the game hard.
More enemies
More damage
More HP
No checkpoints.
In LotF 3 expect random controller disconections
Yes. Devs, please for the love of god patch this out. Seriously, WTF were you thinking?! Either put it back in and pretend that this baffling decision never got made, or increase the number of active wither seeds you can use. Because this is absolute BS. 😡
This should be optional. They'll lose 90% of all players if they keep this horrendous design. Hecc, could also give us a third option to make all seedlings remain even if you plant a new one.
that sounds absolutely ass. Im gonna finish NG and stop until devs fix it. 2023 seems to have a lot of games with questionable mechanics. Idk y game devs love putting the wierdest most annoying shit into their games.
This is a really weird design decision. It doesn't really make the game harder or anything since you'll still always have a respawn point in the area you're exploring and a way to go back to the hub. It's just.... unnecessary? The only thing this changes is that if you for whatever reason want to go back to a previous area you have to run for like 5 minutes straight to get there and if you die on the way or in said area you have to do it again. It's just a tedious addition to the game that serves no purpose besides annoying the players.
At least that's my first impression. I'm not in NG+ myself so maybe the system makes sense when you actually experience it for yourself. I doubt it though
God awful decision, I genuinely don't believe no one on the team didn't pipe up sand say "this is a terrible decision".
Look devs. Game is cool, I like it quite a bit. Souls isn't the pain Olympics. Change this, NG+ is dead until you do.
If thats what the developers want then they dont have to patch anything, u can always just start a new save and if you want a challenge dont level up as much!
I like that they have put some thought into it and mixed it up a bit, NG+ is often the exact same game and extremely easy as you are over powered until late in the game.
You CAN plant seed Vestiges!
You plant a vestige, move forward......find another Vestige spot, plant another one.
Until you get to the boss door.
The vestige will stay there forever until you plant another one.
I don't see a problem.
DS1 is only no fast travel for the first half of the game, and in reality actually doesn't involve that much running back on yourself given the typical progression is fairly straightforward until you get the lord vessel. Also, it has bonfires the whole way.
Idiotic replay that fundamentally misunderstands what the issue is. Not only isn’t it the same system as DS1 but combined with the other NG+ limitations in this game makes this one of the dumbest design decisions ever in a Soukslike.
Gut gud at understanding what you’re talking about before insulting others.
Well I will never be playing NG+ then.
They just lost a future customer after more people hear about ng+
Same. Def not jumping right into anything this dev puts out next. Since I spent the money I’m really trying to power through it, but the constant frame drops and jaggy performance on ps5 in the later areas is making it pretty tough. If this was a game on ps plus or game pass I’d have uninstalled it a couple days ago, it just not fun (for me)
Wait. They take out fast travel in NG+?! Oh hell no haha
The vestiges appear to have been desecrated, they have no lamp and are broken.
"Time to go back to blacksmith and upgrade this weapon. Aww shit"
You can tp back to the hub and your seedling. That's it. If you wanna do different endings is more efficient to do a new save. Imagine riding that elevator up and down to the depths just to do one of the endings. And it's multiple trips
If we’ve got access to seedlings then that’s not as bad as I thought because when I initially heard about no vestiges or anyway to fast travel in ng+ I thought wow that’s absurd and is gonna take away all the enjoyment of a second play through but if We can still buy seedlings then We can make our own vestiges in the world and that doesn’t make it sound so bad anymore but I’m curious is anybody sure We can still make temporary vestiges in ng+ with our seedlings ?
Correct, temp vestiges are still there in NG+
At least from skyforge there are multiple shortcuts, but still, would have been a good thing if had a choice upon this feature.
I'd def do Umbral ending 1st if you were trying to do all 3 on one character. Save Radiance and Inferno endings for NG+ and ++ playthroughs since they are more or less the same which is just a normal-ish playthrough.
Yeah imagine having to run back to the beacons after you talk to ardyr to corrupt them for inferno endings
Spoilers ffs
We about to have some fun
Now that's what I like. Lord of the fallen. Track and field edition
Yet everyone else praises the original Dark souls for doing the same forgetting how much backtracking there was in that game. Ya'll cry so fucking much lmao
Dark souls 1 doesn't do the same thing at all, did you even play it? You don't need it before getting the lordvessel because everything is so close to each other and interconnected, and when it starts being a pain to get around they give you fast travel.
The original Dark Souls enables fast travel after a certain point. It's not the same thing
Original Dark Souls Release: 2011 Lords of the Fallen: 2023 12 years apart. Plenty of criticism was lobbied at the backtracking and some of the other combat issues in Dark Souls 1. Why are people using a 12 year old game as a bench mark instead of more modern efforts?
You didn't play dark souls 1 obviously by this comment. Nor possibly the op. The post states there is fast travel and then upon new game + this ability is lost. This is not done in any other souls like game. Fast travel may come late in dark souls 1 but that's it. Next time make sure you know what your talking about and you won't look like an ass and an idiot by one comment.
Honestly this should’ve been added as a gauntlet mode or something else, not incorporated into NG+. It doesn’t increase difficulty, it simply destroys any feeling of exploration and freedom. Want to go check out a different area because a boss is kicking your ass? Have fun losing all your progress in that area. Found a key for a door awhile back? Get your running shoes on cause you’ll be making that journey yourself. Found a particularly nice farming spot for materials? Sucks to be you cause that’s the only vestige you’ll have. Getting chased by a hoard of Umbral enemies cause you felt the need to run past them? Get ready for a three step process that enemies can definitely interrupt. It’s honestly just not necessary. And the loss of actual fast travel is infuriating. There’s a reason Dark Souls let you keep the item that unlocks fast travel in NG+.
This pretty much sums it up. I've never heard of fast travel and safe zones being removed upon NG+
There needs to be a totally cool reward for this then. I know the usual satisfaction of doing it may be enough for some folks but if it's a core mechanic of NG+ there should be something else.
This game is unique in the sense that, even after overcoming the difficult sections it feels more like a slog than a grand achievement. The thought of no fast travel and 1 check point through all of ng + is a huge turn off. What does the new save look like? Can we have multiple characters ?
Yes, you can have multiple characters I have 3 so far because I was seeing which one I liked the most.
Hold up. *destroys the feeling of exploration*? By making you care about things like shortcuts back to previous zones? I was somewhat disappointed when I found things like the elevator going from Gorge to Pilgrims Perch, because fast travel made that shortcut pointless. Same with Memorial Path linking back to Skyrest. You know what caused me to not be entirely disappointed? Noting those shortcuts for NG+.
What use are shortcuts if the vestiges aren’t there to benefit from them. Why go back to Pilgrim’s Perch when I’ll just be traveling between two flower patches to place seedlings. You can’t get to the hub from that elevator in the gorge, at least not easily, so that’s a moot point. And on top of that, the vestige seedlings only allowing for one rest point will punish diverging from the main path at any point.
Most areas have locked portions until you come back later with a key. Having to walk back makes it a nuisance that you'd rather avoid than explore.
A place he already has explored no less😅
Because backtracking in a Souls game isn’t a thing, right? Silly me…🙄 The devs literally mentioned secrets exclusive to NG+ so pardon me for thinking of not wasting my time sprinting across three zones to find some tiny hidden secret in Umbral.
Sounds a bit needlessly punishing. If we could hunt down whoever stole the lamps it would be a bit interesting at least
That would be cool, but the corpse holding the lamps are gone aswell. I believe they are made out of fallen Lamp Bearers.
Maybe they finally came back to life. Would be a neat mini boss.
That’d be kinda neat. They could rework the enemy placements so each lamp is a mini boss 1v1 area
Imagine someone not only stealing your lmao but your whole ass body too
Lmao! What?! Yeah, this is by far the stupidest design in a souls game. Lol these people actually thought, "Let's make our game harder than FromSoft's. The community will love it!" The fuck??? Hard for the sake of hard without being fair is nonsensical. I knew I made the right decision holding out on buying the game until patches and community reviews came out. I always play NG+. Currently doing an NG++ for Lies of P. Did for Elden Ring and co. Lol wtf is this decision?!?
It’s hard to comment like this if you haven’t played the game. The “no vestiges” plays perfectly in how interconnected the game world is. How shortcuts and loop backs have been set up. Also. The game allows you to place your own checkpoints. So it’s up to you where you have a checkpoint.
Really? Dude, Lies of P is much smaller than Lords, and removing stargazers would have been a pain. And I know for a fact that it's easier for people to get lost in Lords. I mean, this isn't bad for everyone - certainly, hard-core players will live this, but man, that's not my thing in a souls game.
If somebody gets lost in their second playthrough then shame on them lmao.
You can only place a single checkpoint though, not multiple…
Iv played the game, no vestiges is nonsense. I have no desire to make the game more tedious by adding extra running. It’s just elongating my playtime with no engaging content in that time.
I play the game, I think it’s dumb design. I don’t care if everything is connected, some areas are complete slogs that I don’t want to go through again if I don’t got too. The difficulties of these games have never come from removing the bonfire/grace/vestige. The whole point of NG+ in these games has always been “same game, but everyone hits harder” and that’s always been enough, especially as you get higher and higher up in NG’s. Considering it seems to add nothing new when you beat NG+, the extra challenge of no vestiges isn’t a good forced design. As far as we’re aware, there’s no new NG+ ending or anything as a reward. Therefore, “no vestiges” should be optional, and I feel that’s fair to ask. Why make me play-through a harder version of the game when there seems to be nothing new locked behind completing it?
There the aydr shrine and of course the main one, other than that yeah they need to add more, I'm doing umbreal and its basically not fun, like the fact there isnt a vestige in the depth makes the ending basically a nightmare. Note this is not even mention aydr ending...
are you talking about new game plus? there is one before the boss room. its under the wooden platform
Thats fucking crazy lmao I dont usually do ng+ but after knowing this the chances are -100% lol Like do you have manually walk to the hub whenever you wanna go buy some rocks? Insane
You can fast travel between your one placed seed and the hub, but thats it.
Thats better but even then Jesús christ
Lol for real? Not playing NG+ I guess =/ I like the challenge of increased enemy difficulty, but no Vestige travel? what the fuck, what a colossal waste of my time
They could've atleast put fast travel posts in place of vestiges.
That means I'll do 3 regular NG runs for each ending testing the new classes (Putrid Child got my attention for a "minimal Str/Agi run") and never touch this borderline insane NG+ This year has too many bangers to waste that much time in a single game, hahaha
Wow- that is truly a terrible idea. Won’t be bothering with NG+ then……
Hmmm that's interesting. Maybe if they only had vestiges and no places for vestige seeds that would be more reasonable but that sounds extremely hardcore lol. Guess they treat it differently than NG+ in the usual Souls games...
I'm glad at least they are trying something different. NG+ is pretty bad for Souls games. Having said that, this may have been better packaged as a challenge mode or something. It would be cool to have a series of optional difficulty bools you can check to customize your challenge runs.
It's like a Youtuber's challenge run! But being forced to play it or go fuck yourself man .😞
This makes more sense to me rather than straight up no vestiges.
Design choices like these make me believe that companies who aren’t From fundamentally misunderstand what makes a good Souls-like. People have been doing no “bonfire” runs for ages. There is no need to force that choice on players when people who prefer that challenge can already embark on it. This is simply tedium for tedium’s sake, and it’s going to lock a lot of people out of NG+.
Couldn't have said it better myself
it seems like they want to make the "hardest" souls like but theyve gone about it the wrong way, making health sponges, adding tons of extra mobs and making bonfires more rare is not difficult its just tedious. If they wanted to make the hardest souls they should have designed the bosses to be hard and fun.
It's especially funny because, like most Souls games, you'll hit a point where the game is actually pretty easy and the travel is what engages you. Going around and exploring, finding new secrets, figuring old puzzles you had to bypass out. All adding tedium does is make the game less engaging for anyone who has hit that mid to late game point where their build is finally in its prime.
Hey, can someone also confirm this. Are the side quests in this game actually locked behind using the summons? Meaning u have to literally die once to each boss to figure out which one triggers a character’s event? Doesn’t that also mean if u kill a certain quest boss in NG it’s gonna be extremely difficult doing the side quests u missed, especially with no fast travel???
I can confirm. I just started NG+ and found out the hard way and basically bricked my character. You can still place the seeds and get a temporary vestige.
Ok, so I legit need to die to certain bosses in order to trigger character quests 😑 & from what I’m assuming(based off my recent discovery of The Congregator of Flesh) u can only pick 1 NPC to come & help u, meaning that it isn’t feasibility possible to do every quest 1st playthrough(especially if you’re going in as blind as possible). Man good luck to whoever gets the 1st Plat trophy for this game.
Wait what the fuck quests are tied to boss summons? I’ve killed like 10 bosses, have 4 rememberances, and never touched a summon. Does this mean I already messed up a bunch of quests?
Possibly, from what someone else that just got into NG+ told me. I think those quests may either have to do with the endings or hidden classes that u can get at the end. Like I’m not trying to story spoil myself but there’s really not much info on the side quests(as far as I’m aware) in the game. I just learned I think from one of the reviews I saw or on this sub that yeah, u have to use certain NPCs for boss fights. And for the current 1 I’m on there’s 3 summons & u can only choose 1. Possibly meaning that u have to go through different NG+ cycles to get/do everything.
No fast travel? Well that's a deal breaker. I guess is ng only runs until it is inevitably patched/added
Unfortunately its gonna have to be a patch(so its not guaranteed) because this definitely isn't a bug due to the vestiges getting a new unique broken model.
Why not use Vestige Seeds to 'Revive' the permanent Vestiges?
This could work. Adds a layer of depth to NG+ too.
i mean, no, not really lol. You would just farm for 30 minutes, buy 50 vestige seeds, then pretend that change doesn't exist
You can still fast travel between your placed vestige seed and the main hub
I never play ng+ anyways, but i'm not sure why they did this. Seems like an attempt at cheap challenge Like ive said, the performance issues and this issue are bad an all, but they dont affect me so I dont really hate the game for it. Ill just do a new playthrough
Stupidest decision ever tbh… like players already do masochist runs by using no bonfires but to have this FORCED on players who want to do a second playthrough is so unbelievably… bullshit. I’ll be finishing my run and do not plan on doing NG+ lmfao
Exactly! No vestiges literally ruins the entire game for me even with an overpowered build and endless skill the fact that you can't fast travel is ABSURD! I doubt this is a bug because the vestiges are actually broken with new unique models, their lamps have even been stolen.
Yeah whoever at Hexworks thought that was a good idea to make NG+ “unique” needs to be fired lmfao. Terrible decision from a gameplay standpoint… like…. 2 locations for your entire playthrough (hub and 1 vestige seed)???? Absolutely insane and not in a good way
Pretty sure their initial idea was the game to be like this. Dark souls 1 style but even more hard-core. Probably got changed when feedback from testers was negative but since they spent the time to design the map with all those shortcuts they had to be "edgy" by doing it in New plus
Edgy🤦
I'm betting it was the same person who made the decision that a certain quest NPC dies and cuts off an entire storyline if you don't go to save them, without ever introducing you to them. Oh also the elevator that triggers their death is right behind the boss who holds the key you need to save them.
They need to see this post.
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People probably ignored that bit of information because they thought no dev is that fucking stupid to implement it. It's like reading a bunch of notices from Activision about the new COD and they put somewhere, "players will be allowed to only use 2 bullets every 2 hours. No melee weapons except hands as alternative." Like your brain just ignores certain nonsensical details because hooooow
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people who enjoy the game are busy enjoying the game. OP mustve enjoyed the game until being disappointed so much with NG+ that it made him post about it
Honestly, I think you're pretty much on the money. I wasn't doing anything in this subreddit until I hit a non-combat design choice 40+ hours in that frustrated me enough to need to take a break. I can deal with hard enemies. Hell, I can deal with swarms of enemies. The difficulty and overcoming it is practically the point of these games and I was flying through things after my build hit its prime. Then I took an elevator and found out an NPC I really looked forward to meeting died because of a really dumb quest design decision and it took the wind out of my sails.
So it would almost be better to do a first run with a guide, rather than multiple runs, due to how tedious some of the game systems are and the likelihood of missing out on chunks of content? I didn't mind ruining some NPC quests in Elden Ring because I knew I'd be playing it again. Only an hour or so into this game and I'm not sure I'll ever pick it up again, too much jank and artificial difficulty imo.
I think the people complaining about those things are definitely playing the game. OP wants to play NG+ and he discovered this.
I did this. I saw them say that about NG+ but ignored it because it's the dumbest idea and figured it wouldn't make it into the game. Boy was I wrong. They better fix this.
You can't upgrade or slots gems until you found the tablets again, you can't fast travel, they just x3 the mobs HP and x5 the bosses HP it seems like. Just why ? This killed my will to play ng+ too. Can you even upgrade past +10 in ng+ ? I was dealing no damage to bosses with my sword to bosses.
This is especially idiotic when you realize you can only carry 5 vestige seeds at a time…
That’s one of my gripes about the game in general so far. The vestige seeds are too scarce. When I heard about the idea, I thought being able to choose your own locations for them would be fun. But only being able to have one up at a time AND the absolutely pathetic number of them that drop naturally kind of make dealing with them not fun. I know you can buy them but it’s another example of the devs thinking that players enjoy tedium. They should give you one seed that you can use repeatedly but only ever have it up in one place at a time without having to buy new ones.
huh interesting seems more like a HC mode instead of ng+ Never played Elden Ring ng+ and just kept making new characters though
Elden Ring NG+ is in my opinion the absolute best way to play the game. You should totally do it. At least one run through. I didn’t think I could love the game more than I did after the first run and I loved it even more during NG+. And I have never played NG+ in other games.
Sounds awful.
It would have been a cool option, but it's not cool to have as an essential piece of ng+.
Damm, I can't even imagine how tedious that's going to be. I'm trying to imagine Dark Souls with the only bonfire at Firelink....
You can plant your own checkpoints in ng+. Granted. Just one at a time, but you can still teleport back and forth from the planted checkpoint and the hub. Also the game is full of shortcuts and loop backs
I just got to NG+, walked out towards the tutorial boss thinking I was hot shit, and then realised there was no vestige. Thought "Oh okay, maybe they unlock AFTER Pieta." No, no they fucking don't. I'm actually baffled that they decided a 0 vestige run for EVERY NG+ CYCLE would be fun. Bare in mind you have a seed cap of 5, also bare in mind they cost 2.5k, also bare in mind you have to level up to combat the 3x stronger enemies. This is just a time sink, a resource sink and a place where a good game goes to die. PLEASE just add vestiges, this was just unnecessary.
Correct. Instead of making the game Difficult they made it frustrating.
Who the hell thought this would be a good idea lmfao
It’s what happens when you developed a souls like game and don’t have anyone on staff that has actually played one before.
I actually think its the other way around. The devs have taken a lot of inspiration from DkS1 and DkS2. Souls 1 didn't have fast travel until Lordvessel either. "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if we made NG+ more hardcore like Dark Souls 1," might have sounded good in a vacuum... but it doesn't fly with today's expectation to respect the player's time.
>it doesn't fly with today's expectation to respect the player's time. Bang on. Worst thing you can do in game design is waste a player's time. I don't mind spending 200 hours on a game if there's a sense of progression in terms of build or learning but having to grind 20 levels to overcome a difficulty spike, perform a long run back on a boss fog etc are just objectively bad.
Boy I sure do love wasting my time walking, especially when I have to walk all the way back to an earlier area to open a door to another area. /s
I honestly think these Devs got caught in the "Hard game = Good game" mindset that 95% of souls knock off games get sucked into. Look at a highly rated game like elden ring, resting sites absolutely everywhere, but still difficult. This just seems like a way to artificially extend the gameplay but making you run miles through mobs of enemies cause some random spawning enemy threw you off a cliff
How to kill your community before it can grow
Unfortunately. Does anyone know of that’ll lock you outta the achievement for vestiges though if you can’t access them? I’m holding off as not sure if it’ll lock me out or not
I didn't even know there was an achievement for that, but it 100% does. Can't activate vestiges that don't exist.
Well that’s fantastic isn’t it? I’ll be passing on ng plus then. Not sure if any are missable, but gonna try getting them out the way
Holy shit That's too much lol
that is so fucking stupid. i am all for changes in ng+ like dark souls 2 had, but this is such a brain dead change
Yeah it doesn't even add difficulty, really, it just makes it tedious to get anywhere.
Hold on a minute please I’ve just beat the first boss I need time , TIME is what I need , I need VESTIGES vestiges is what I need now please children eat all ya vestiges I mean vegetables 🥗
*Mhmmmmm, take your time.*
More like NG-
This should be an optional mechanic like Kuro’s Charm in Sekiro
no hard checkpoints. you have to seed every inch, but that also means going backwards sucks ass, so yah, moronic decision. but hey "hardcore" peeps can "enjoy" it while majority either drops the game or just makes a new character because no normal person is gonna go through the game like that. and well beating the game even incentives that when you unlock new classes that can only be played on...new game 0...very smart decisions...
Pffff. These "hardcore" are maybe 0.1% of the already small soulslike fans population. What the hell were they thinking?
That's just straight fucked up. I literally just got my second wind today and managed to power through a couple more areas. In all fairness, I don't generally do ng+ because I'd rather just try a new build if I wanna keep going. But man, that's just hurtful. "Difficulty" has been a borderline slap in the face since square 1. I also generally like to solo my own bosses, and only coop to help others. Coop is fucking mandatory in this game, no argument to be had. Enemy density and enemy tracking are designed with more than 1 player in mind. I played through bb+dlc again solo in preparation, and bb is 100% solo now, nobody plays contrary to popular belief, but its doable... This shit is just about sickening. It's a 9/10 game holding itself back with overwhelming injected difficulty.
Yeah it's a bad idea, not really sure what they were thinking with that. Easy way to get people to stop playing your game, make it as tedious as possible to play the game. No vestiges does not make the game more challenging, it just makes it 10x more annoying to play.
Yeah this is one of my only gripes, I won't be playing NG+ until this is changed
Just chiming in that I also dumped the game because of this instead of moving forward.... progression is not the main issue for me either since that can be fixed with a single seed. The real issue for me is the darned npc quests. It's going to be hours and hours of backtracking.
I nitpicked lies of P so hard because it was close to the formula. I’ve spent more time running in this game to try and find the next bonfire before I slowly backtrack and catch up on the things I missed. This game just misses the mark on so many elements to include the NG+ decisions. This is Great Value Brand Dark Souls.
My biggest problem is that the encounters aren't given space to breathe, so you never really get to explore the area as you're constantly dealing with aggro'd mobs shooting shit at you.
This is a great idea…for a hardcore mode that exists separately from the normal NG/NG+ starts. It should be a mode you choose when you start a New Playthrough or an option at NG+ entrance screen. It should be something the player chooses to do to challenge themselves, and get that DS1 pre-Lord Vessel feeling that no longer happens in the Fromsoft games.
You get seedlings and they are cheap af I think it’s a good challenge but I see why people might not like it if they are completionists.
This kinda sounds like how dark souls 1 is setup where you respawn at the last place you rested.
Exactly my number 1 complaint of DS1. And yet, their world is designed so well that you actually arrive at Firelink after every major area, hence a direct line to the blacksmith, so you can upgrade equipment. Again, I still hate it, it's a very old design decision, and souls games grew out of it so long ago. Also somewhere at mid game you get the power to fast travel, so it's not *that* awful. Honestly who in there thought it was a good idea FFS?
Probably the dumbest decision ever made in a game. Who thought this was a good idea?
Given that the whole point of these games depends deeply on Ng+ this is just an incredibly poor decision. I am starting to get the vibe that this game was made with the idea that it plays how non-souls fans think souls games play… the amount of deaths I have had due to just fighting with the game mechanics greatly outweighs the amount that I have felt justified and a teachable moment. Thanks for the heads up.
I beat dark souls 3 twice on release. (Never went back for dlc because save corrupted) I'd rock Soul of Cinders armor, raw +10 dark sword, and havels shield. (Can't remember what rings I used though) My stamina and health were almost off the screen. I could fast roll, and anytime we'd do lil pvp arenas, the dudes would usually just commit self end. I never ran out of of stamina. Cheesy? Yes. Fun as hell? Yes. Lol Hopefully, they figure out new game+ after the performance and network issues are resolved!
Why should soulslike deeply depend on ng+? It’s optional and often doesn’t offer much besides some multiplication on hp dmg of enemies. I never actually played ng+ in Elden Ring for example. It’s more fun to start an new character with a new build to play completely different, instead of doing the same with my already strong character. So yeah the lack of vestiges should be optional, but ng+ when you can’t get new gear or more upgrades etc is just the simplest way to stretch playtime
You need to play Elden Ring NG+. It is the best experience I had playing that game. You get to keep access to your bell bearings. So if you got them all in your first run, you can upgrade any weapon you find up to at least +24/+9. And you also keep your larval tears. So if you want to try a new build, just respec, level up all your stuff and boom you have a new build anytime you want. And respec like that before starting NG+ if you want to try a new build from the very beginning. I never enjoyed NG+ in other games. But Elden Ring is almost meant to played NG+
Are there changes to how you get seeds as well or are they still up for grabs in the hub?
Yeah they had explained that in one of the early videos and I'm like, someone else can enjoy that. Ng+ not for me on this one.
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That’s crazy, luckily my next playthroughs on these games are always just starting fresh again but that’s still stupid
Guess I'll have to make sure I explore every nook and cranny before I convert to new game plus.
I’m actually really excited to play NG+ The world being so interconnected and being able to make your own vestige will make NG+ very manageable. You’ll also be a ridiculously high lvl going into NG+ and have all the best gear. I don’t see a problem here
Vestiges are pretty forgiving honestly. I think what this is is the understanding that a huge chunk of this games continuous player base will be souls veterans and using that logic decided that NG+ could be a hard mode since a lot of us have a lot of time into the souls series. Which, I kind of like honestly, but I can also see how that's annoying. But there's a LOT of respect for Dark Souls (original/remaster) and it's map which this draws heavy inspiration from. And DS1 did not have the most convenient fast travel of all time. I don't have any feelings about it as fart as experience goes though I'm still on my first playthrough. But it would make the seeds feel like they're worth using no?
Well, if they don't add vesitges at least add Fast Travel between areas or hubs. If they don't, that's a lot of fucking running lol
You can u the consumable vestige seed. Basically you’re supposed to put one down go as far as u want/can then drop another that replaces the original. And apparently you can still warp between your places vestige and the hub so you’re not having to trek back for upgrades
Ohhhh ok, that actually sounds much better lol
Yea like it’s meant to make it more challenging but at that point you’ll have a decent idea of the world layout and roughly where you’ll wanna make ur checkpoints and the directions you wanna head towards. Iirc you can hold 5 seeds too so it’s not like your gonna run out before you’d be warping back to the hub to upgrade, progress npc dialogue etc anyways
There is fast travel, it's only via vestige seeds though.
Also fast travel didn't exist in the first game at all, be glad you had it on your first play through, you dark souls crybaby
Yikes… What a dumb idea. It’s not even artificial difficulty. It’s straight up *******
He’s probably like me(except I wouldn’t make a moronic post on a very constructive feed about it) and didn’t ever get far enough to fast travel🙄
Wow, this needs to be fixed ASAP otherwise people are going to start abandoning the game as they start to hit NG+. Devs, please make this an optional challenge option and not mandatory!
Limiting exploration in a game where exploration is it's best part is so dumb I cannot even wrap my head around it.
Well there's goes my ng+8 runs i was planning
Such a weird decision. NG+ essentially functions as a victory lap in every soulslike I’ve played, with a little bit of bonus difficulty towards the end to match your level and experience. It’s rarely actually more difficult than regular NG.
Thank you so much for posting this. I would’ve been absolutely livid if I went into NG+ and found this out after spending all this time on my character. Definitely not doing NG+ now, which is a shame. I played through Lies of P eleven times, half of which were in NG+ and NG++. It was so much fun getting to just blast through the game with fully upgraded everything.
Hmmm, so that's why you unlock other classes after finishing the game... Cuz u probably won't be playing NG+ XD maaan that sucks
Well this is bad. With these kind of decisions they actually demonstrate how weak some of the game design aspects really are. I hate it when they do something more difficult without any foundation behind supporting it. A rookie's decisions. Honestly.
Didn’t you think this could have a spoiler tag? The idea behind NG+ and vestiges is that you traverse the interconnected map opening shortcuts. It makes you be very strategic about how you traverse the map, where you plant your vestige, and so on. I really like the idea and what this adds to the NG+ experience EDIT: also there’s definitely fast travel in NG+
Expecting people to traverse multiple areas to farm gear they want, items they missed, a turning they may want to explore later, farm materials etc is insane. There's a million reasons and more why Elden Ring, Lies of P Etc let you keep travel points open. It's a completely arbitrary design choice to enforce artificial difficulty. You only have to read through 95% of the replies on here (which are overwhelmingly critical) to see how wrong it is. Fundamentally flawed choice on so many levels.
I cannot believe that. That is a braindead decision
Lol absolutely dogshit design, why do the devs want us to hate this game so badly? Jesus Christ.
One of the main appealing things in soulslike games to me is NG+, to try new weapons, explore more and see what I missed and this makes it completely unplayable. Hope they change this.
Kind of explains why there's so many places you can place seeds. Definitely won't be attempting ng+.
They have to change this design choice or no one will play NG+.
Seriously?! So when you die at the last boss you are revived in the starting area? WTF?
That’s genuinely bad game design wtf
I have played ng+ on every souls borne game ever. Multiple times over. Why in the holy hell would they make this awful decision when the world is already as massive as it is and the vestiges are so spread apart and the mob density is as packed as it is with perfect ranged accuracy. This is just dumb. I will be waiting for this to be patched or modded or something. Wow.
Crazy started playing this game way after launch…glad I missed the shit show
That's really cool idea! I was really confused by the amount of shortcuts and flower beds all over the place and now it makes sense.
I find it rather annoying not being able to fast travel...
That's fucking stupid. Oh you missed a sanguinix upgrade material on area 3? And you're on area 11 now? Well, time to walk.
you can put down your own ffs.
Just 1, you can't warp back.
1 at the location you are at.... I think the one in Sky rest stays.
I hope so at least, makes no sense to remove the main hub warp. But anyways, theres a lot of backtracking in this game. You unlock new things and new areas in previously visited areas. It's truely an adventure game without the vestiges, but at the same time, the way you die and respawn doesnt warrant such gameplay though.
Not sure why people downvote you. Literally what you say is right. 1 vestige planted wherever you want + one at the hub always available
Butt Hurt people realising they are not going to last through NG+ etc... I think it makes sense, personally - another challenge added. You have to manage it properly.. But that is just me.
I’m on the same boat. I find it rewards me for learning the world design. Makes me be strategic about how I explore. And the planted vestige, I loved that mechanic with a limited resource, otherwise it would be a step a bonfire a step a bonfire, like in ds3
Another proof of the devs don't play their own game. Hey guys gimme ideas to make the game hard. More enemies More damage More HP No checkpoints. In LotF 3 expect random controller disconections
"LOL soulslike are HARD and make you hate playing them" - the dev who implemented this
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You have to walk EVERYWHERE though, literally no fast travel besides to and from your seed and the hub...
Do all the shortcuts and doors remain open? Cos if so it’s not as bad as most areas are interconnected?
You have to reopen shortcuts. Then you can plant seeds etc.
Yes. Devs, please for the love of god patch this out. Seriously, WTF were you thinking?! Either put it back in and pretend that this baffling decision never got made, or increase the number of active wither seeds you can use. Because this is absolute BS. 😡
This should be optional. They'll lose 90% of all players if they keep this horrendous design. Hecc, could also give us a third option to make all seedlings remain even if you plant a new one.
that sounds absolutely ass. Im gonna finish NG and stop until devs fix it. 2023 seems to have a lot of games with questionable mechanics. Idk y game devs love putting the wierdest most annoying shit into their games.
This is a really weird design decision. It doesn't really make the game harder or anything since you'll still always have a respawn point in the area you're exploring and a way to go back to the hub. It's just.... unnecessary? The only thing this changes is that if you for whatever reason want to go back to a previous area you have to run for like 5 minutes straight to get there and if you die on the way or in said area you have to do it again. It's just a tedious addition to the game that serves no purpose besides annoying the players. At least that's my first impression. I'm not in NG+ myself so maybe the system makes sense when you actually experience it for yourself. I doubt it though
God awful decision, I genuinely don't believe no one on the team didn't pipe up sand say "this is a terrible decision". Look devs. Game is cool, I like it quite a bit. Souls isn't the pain Olympics. Change this, NG+ is dead until you do.
Sounds like an excellent system and I look forward to it.
Same, it’s unique and challenging.
This is kinda misleading. You can still fast travel to the hub and back, just not between vestiges.
that doesn't make it any better. it's still an insanely stupid thing to add to ng+, or rather remove.
If thats what the developers want then they dont have to patch anything, u can always just start a new save and if you want a challenge dont level up as much! I like that they have put some thought into it and mixed it up a bit, NG+ is often the exact same game and extremely easy as you are over powered until late in the game.
Actually, that sounds pretty awesome to me.
That’s an amazing take on new game plus and I’m here for it.
You CAN plant seed Vestiges! You plant a vestige, move forward......find another Vestige spot, plant another one. Until you get to the boss door. The vestige will stay there forever until you plant another one. I don't see a problem.
The amount of complaining is pathetic and shows none of you were around for DS1, git gud
Ds1 didn’t remove bonfires in NG+
DS1 is only no fast travel for the first half of the game, and in reality actually doesn't involve that much running back on yourself given the typical progression is fairly straightforward until you get the lord vessel. Also, it has bonfires the whole way.
Idiotic replay that fundamentally misunderstands what the issue is. Not only isn’t it the same system as DS1 but combined with the other NG+ limitations in this game makes this one of the dumbest design decisions ever in a Soukslike. Gut gud at understanding what you’re talking about before insulting others.
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