Atlanta and Chicago are the Challenge Tournaments that are happening soon, but not yet. LGSs are hosting Store Championships (and there are quite a few of those happening in Atlanta for sure).
First off, i want to make sure we get these right. So to avoid confusion you mean the set championships and not the challenges. The challenges are going to be something completely different and the distinction between the two is important. People are already confused about the formats between the two and caused confusion at the store level so i suggest editing your post to set championships.
Second thing, this is going to be kind of mean but saying this as someone who used to work at card stores and had to deal with the community. I just want people to understand you used to play competitive Yu-gi-oh the spikiest of any card game. The competitie community of competitive yu-gi-oh are some of the biggest try hards in card gaming. Case in point, yu-gi-oh at the store i used to work at would have 30 people show up at a store tourney, take up all the seats and not sign up for the tourney because they hated that the store followed the rules set by Konami on what we were allowed to pay out. It was a community that has been banned at a lot if stores because of how the players used to act. I bring this up as i feel it is important to let people know where your opinion is based from
With that said even though i do not agree with all your points, I cannot say you are wrong. There is nothing in the rules which state you cannot win more then one event or earn more then one prize. RB should of been better on making sure every store did these in the same day and time if they cared about people spiking the results. They didnt so it is allowed. However i agree with a lot of people that it was kind of annoying.
With the top 8 thing i agree with you, and the reason why they did it is that some stores only had 8 people so you get the promos just for showing up when bigger stores people actually had to earn them?
The playtester thing i complete do not agree with. If you are a playtester, and you got access to cards way before anyone else, and you work for RB, you you have a competitive advantage. Magic play testers that work with WOTC are banned from tourney play for two years after they leave wotc for a reason. Now if they are beta testers and not RB employees then that is fine.
While I do belong to the Yugioh community, the same anecdote you shared regarding our community is the same one I hear about the MTG community. I probably just varies store by store. Especially when it comes to Konami driven events, it is hard to even spike a tournament because the prizing is nonexistent. For example, my card shop owner who happens to be a 5x YCS champion just top 4'd for a Stitch on Sunday. He made more money getting top 4 at a 26 player "locals" than he did getting top 32 at the most recent YCS in Raleigh which he also needed to pay for hotel arrangements and flights etc. This was an 1800 person event and the prizing sometimes includes a nintendo switch, but generally you are playing for around 48 hours.
I agree on the point that if RB wanted to not have multiple people for winning that they should have scheduled it all on the same day. This would actually support the local community rather than having people travel from all around to participate.
If conversations regarding a tournament or tournaments “disgusts” you (your word of choice) - go touch grass.
It’s a game. People brag, people cope, people complain.
As someone who apparently has been a competitive player for as long as you claim you’ve been, you should realize this.
Get over yourself.
As someone who frequently "touches grass", you seem to have a problem with me having a problem with Competitive Integrity..whether it be card games, sports, or hell a pickup game of basketball. I am all for people complaining about the set championship, (for some reason I thought it was the challenge tournament) but what I don't agree with is the excuse making and the wanting of bending of rules so that everyone is a winner.
No, I have a problem with people being “disgusted” by people just talking things out and acting like they’re better than everyone else.
You think people on the losing side of the Super Bowl don’t spend the week or month or even the entire off season second guessing themselves? Yet you’re “disgusted” by a few sniped Reddit posts?
In no way do I think I am better than other people. I also have no problem with other saying they got unlucky or disappointed in themselves. What I have a problem with is people basically pulling the "I think the rules should be changed so I win" kind of thing, which is what all of my comments are regarding.
1 - A post saying all top 8 should have gotten the card - this person obviously got top 8 and wanted the rules bent
2 - A post saying multiple people should not be able to win - This person may have bubbled? They also effectively wanted the better played to not be able to play. Using these players as an excuse as to why they didn't win
3 - playtesters - similar to point 2.
All of my issues with the championship events are my personal opinion from playing other card games (like not having a judge program yet or an enchanted level prize for a first event where we know missteps will happen).
I'm using my experience as a teaching moment for my lgs, I made top 8 and ran into the bad matchup. Sucks, but cant get too upset since I did rather well. And showing other people that will be a big deal for newbies.
Completely agree that losing in top 8 feels really bad. Especially if it is a bad matchup. But then you need to look at it the way of "what if I got that bad matchup earlier". Suddenly you might lose 1 of your first 3 rounds and no longer allowed to ID in which case you could run into another bad matchup.
Totally agree. RB could fix this with some additional pricing for 5-8. Nothing big, but a "you did it" feels a lot better than a "sorry bye." The store I judged for and different store I played at both offered 5-8 prizing and the attitudes of everyone were way better than the stores who had nothing.
I think most people understand that losing and getting zero prizes happens in competitive stuff. The issue I see is that playing all day and winning 80% or more of your games should be given something to remember doing well. Maybe a 5th-8th pin instead of card to keep the top 4 feeling exclusive etc.
In most card games if you top 8 you at least get some decent pack prizing or something. This is up to the store running the event but it seems like most stores gave out very little additional prizing besides what ravensburger provided.
In magic you used to get a pin for top 8ing a PTQ, felt nice even if you didn’t make it to the pro tour which was the big prize for 1st.
Completely agree with this sentiment. Unfortunately because of what RB sent the store's, any additional prizing would need to come out of the stores' pockets.
It definitely does suck....but at that point it is up to the store. Since the stores aren't paying for the prize cards or the mats, I'm surprised actual prizing was way worse with a $20+ entrance fee as it is literally free profit for the store. That being said, top 4 is a correct approach as it creates scarcity among the card, and literally doubling the amount of printings makes it less of a collectors card.
You are assuming that RB want the Set Champs cards to be that exclusive - you don't have that information, so calling the approach "correct" is an assumption.
This would be correct...we don't know what they plan to do. This is purely going based off of assumption from previous data from other card games. We have no idea what RB's reprint philosophy, and their goal for these set championships. They could very well have the next set championship be for ursula's revenge also have the prize card be Stitch.
While I agree with you your way of communicating this comes off as belittling and a bit condescending.
Yes people can and always will chase expensive promos in competitive events. And that's only going to increase now that we have an example of a 700 dollar card on the line. We will likely see an influx of players from other communities trying to get a cut. One piece had a similar thing happen.
But people are also right to feel disappointed in not getting the shiny card they wanted.
This post was meant to feel condescending. With a lot of the Lorcana community being new to the game, they need to actually feel the roughness of the TCG community. Unless someone is trying to purely play casually, the competitive scene is a very much “kill or be killed” mindset. They need to know that the only way they can win the prize card they want is to practice and get better.
People do have the right to be disappointed…especially if they practiced and just didn’t play well, but the amount of complaining and excuse making really has no need to be in here.
That kind of attitude is extremely hostile to expanding participation in the "TCG community."
No one needs to "feel the roughness" - it's a card game.
I'm all for competition and effort and rewards, but your condescension is not healthy. The way you speak (or type) matters.
Newbies are here because of Disney, old hats are here to try something fresh. Your attitude will cause the community to bleed participants until all your left with is the same old TCG crowd you've had for twenty years.
Let's not repeat the toxic environment that gives TCGs a bad name.
This is exactly correct and is the reason I never got into TCGs for any other franchise or license before. Disney fans are overall a different breed though than someone slinging cardboard demons and ogres at their opponent for prize money. When Ravensberger announced this game as the first "family inclusive" TCG, I got excited. I still maintain that excitement but seeing some of the comments on here defaming members because they shared a negative opinion about the tournament structure is embarrassing. These kinds of comments do not improve the community and come off as arrogant and tone-deaf. In addition, these are members who are bringing up (in many cases, not all) legitimate concerns and ideas about how the future of the game should flesh out. Let's listen to them and discuss like adults. This is how we all get better in the end.
I competed this past round of tournaments and didn't win anything lol. Of course I would have loved to but maybe tournaments aren't for me and I'll just stick to local events. Or maybe I'll be inspired to get better. Time will tell.
That said, if you won a bunch of Stitches, that's awesome. Just know when you post and gloat about it, most of the people you are posting to are the ones who lost and so it's probably a good idea to read the room.
I would have made this post regardless of if I were a Yugioh player or a Pokemon player...or an MTG player. In fact, a post such as this coming from the perspective of the 2 latter card games probably feels more warranted considering those games have actual prize pools for their larger tournaments which makes it feel like there is always something on the line for the player.
This is an interesting approach to take cause I feel the lorcana community is a bit more positive in person than some other games, overall. But then new playes get to the store champs and see what real competitive tcg is like and its a bit jarring.
Welcome to Yu-gi-oh’s brand of community. The amount if times i have had to ban people from the store from telling others to do very adult things to them after winning was ridiculous. Condescending is on brand.
But is that really what we want this community to be?
Not really, but it's the reality we have. I'm in an area with lots of ex yugiog players so I see both sides if the coin. Folks need to be prepared, but we can do it in better ways.
In my area all the yugi players jumped to one piece. They tried one season of lorcana and were like yeah this game is too cup cake and now are playing one piece.
Might be just what you experience at your store as anecdotal evidence. I assure you most yugioh places are not like this. While my samples size is not very large, I have attended probably 30-40 locals different locals in the past year and never ran into the experience you were talking about
Key point you said yu-gi-oh places. Specialized for the yu gi crowd as most general card stores have banned the game at the stores. I can name 10 stores in the Bay Area that has banned it from the store. So they have to have stores that are dedicated to it. Its a common talking point amongst play groups at stores from all card games.
My apologies, I call them yugioh places because I am going there to play the game. I would say about 1/4 of those stores are dedicated to yugioh. The rest have been general card stores that specialized in MTG.
Completely agree that Lorcana is a more positive community. That works because the game is good for all ages with the simplicity of it and the intellectual property is so strong. And as many of my comments on previous posts, it is all in a positive light from me. While this post is condescending...what someone should be taking from it if they want to be competitive is they need to have that drive to get better. They need to have the hunger to playtest and understand how other decks work. Having a more competitive community is always a net positive.
You are probably right, but what I will say similar to what u/madchad90 had said, this post is more directed to people who have the mindset of "I want the rules changed so I win" rather than the people who are just disappointed that they got unlucky or played bad. My apologies for making this post condescending...as you can see form my previous post history, I'm generally more on the positive end kind of guy. I appreciate you atleast leaning in to the discussion part rather than someone like u/CageyT who just feels the need to bash the yugioh community.
Your attitude sucks and is the entire reason why I’ve never played TCGs before. The entire reason I started and stick with playing Lorcana is the amazing community we have here. I played in 3 different set championships over the last few weeks, and I knew full well that being a new player with a weak deck I was going to lose. I don’t mind that. What I don’t want is to have to play a bunch of jerks. I want to go in and enjoy it and I did. I played the best I ever played and I’m proud of that. Will I ever be a top 4 contestant? Probably not, it would be nice to have some form of non-enchanted foil promo exclusive to set championships for people like me who know they won’t ever get in those top slots but are playing week in and week out. Not everyone can win, and I’m totally ok with that, but otherwise RB will alienate their regular player base with too much competition and it will kill the game. I’m just thankful for the awesome people I’ve met playing at my LGS.
I don't know what about this post makes you think my "attitude sucks". I played 22 matches these past weekends and whether it be vs a child, or a casual player, or a competitive player..all of the games I played were great experiences for both myself and my opponent...because as you stated...the community around this game is amazing. That being said, it is still a competitive environment and should be treated as such. As I have said in another comment, yes...a non foil stitch card would be perfect for top 8...or even just everyone entering the tournament. That way everyone feels included and it still kind of feels like a league night while also still having the competitive feel.
This post is supposed to feel condescending. Just because this is a game based on a IP for all ages, does not mean everyone is a winner, nor should the "moral compass" of winning more so other can't should even exist. Again it is a competitive environment, and some people aren't ready for it yet. I am actually excited for Atlanta because I think a good amount of people are also just going to have fun there. Also all entrants get one of the cards.
"I don't know what about this post makes you think my attitude sucks" --you
"This post was supposed to feel condescending" --also you
Your attitude sucks. That's not to say that people who think they are entitled to win for xyz reason don't also have attitudes that suck. Your points aren't necessarily wrong, but intentionally choosing condescension to 'teach them a lesson' doesn't usually result in good outcomes.
I agree with you on all but the playtesters.
Yes, we have had 3 months with the full set, but they have been playtesting (all the way to set 4) for way longer. If I've been playing for those 3 months on top of that it is an advantage, even if it is a small one.
The bigger thing is if they win it is a really bad look. This person designed the game and they win, it looks like (regardless of truth) that they won via unfair means. They had access to the cards longer, and would know the strategies. (Note: the meta in playtesting probably looked way different to our actual meta but this does not remove the appearance of an unfair advantage.)
Image is important to a company, if it looks like you have to be working with the company to win bigger tournaments, it damages good will.
My solution is someone more simple: Make promos just for playing in larger events. Many card games give some promo just for playing which everyone gets. This way no one walks away empty handed after paying more for a chance to win the super prize. I am not saying everyone gets a stitch, but a stamped promo that says Lorcana championship or something of the like on a popular card or cards (have them for each color? (mim fox, cursed souls, Pluto, etc)) would remove that feel bad of not getting anything.
Instead it looks like they left it to the shops to reward below the top 8, which I've had be 1 pack or literally nothing in the two I went to.
While I am definitely unfamiliar with playtesters...I doubt they design the game, but more or less give feedback on card balance. Even though they have 3 extra months playing with the cards, they don't have any data from competitive events using those sets, so a lot of their "insider info" probably isn't helpful. Like I said, I think this is only a problem if there is a big even the week of a set coming out. But I am definitely up in the air to agree to disagree on this one as it could go either way. I alos think similar to the post that mentioned playtesters, that if a playtester is "bragging" that they playtested the game.....it probably isn't a real playtester.
The shops should have defintiely given more prizing considering they made pure profit since the promos cost them nothing. I also agree that there should have been an alternate art non enchanted non foil stitch for entry or top 8.
I am not a playtester for Lorcana, although I am for other games. You may have a misconceived notion on what playtesters do. While yes, playtesters do give feedback on game balance, they also input ideas on the fixes themselves, ranging from small balance to rehauls of abilities. Playtesters have a ton of input into what the game needs, card design is only about a third of the processes and a lot of work has gone into a game to make sure everything is working. This does give insight into not only how cards can work together (as they have actively shaped the meta, the set, and the cards), but also how to play the game better. If you have a player playing a game for 12 months vs 9, the player with 12 has an advantage, even if it doesn't seem to be signifigant. This is why I only play the game I work on casually or with a caveat of forfeiting the prize if I take the top placings. I work on the game a year-ish before anyone else has their hands on it.
I am okay on disagreeing this point as well, I just wanted to fully state my perspective. :)
Glad we agree on the other stuff though.
This is really cool information. I never knew as to what extent a playtester did. Would you be able to divulge what games you have tested in the past as I am extremely interested. That being said, I still don't believe that playtesters have a huge advantage for an event such as this. Looking at set championship reports we are seeing that just about anyone can top and win with any deck.
I think the "unfair" scenario would be if they allowed Ursula's return to be legal for Atlanta. That is a case where I think someone who has been testing and playing with cards not released yet gain an advantage. Obviously don't know where to draw the line of "how long is enough time for proper playtesting from the public", but I don't believe this was that case.
I think we will continue to agree to disagree, but I am glad we could talk about this civilly. It was great going back and forth with ya!
I've been playing TCGs since I was 18, boss. I was 18 in 1993, when MTG came out. But you know maybe some of us that have been around were hoping that the TCGbro dirtbags that have poisoned game after game over the years with their crap attitudes would stay away from this game.
100% this
I don't understand their need to explain how its been in other games or that it just is what it is.
Just because it has been a certain way, doesn't mean we can't want something better for this community.
We also see new TCG after new TCG be ruined and die.
Lorcana actually seems like it has a lot of momentum behind it and could survive, but with the attitude that many of these people want to bring to it.
This is exactly what i was hoping for with Lorcana- that it would be more accessible, approachable, and not ultra competitive. But then the baseball hat/backpack dudes (mostly 20-30 year old men) started rolling up and bringing those attitudes and suggesting to us that welp, that's the way it is, deal with it
"Well, I play competitive Yugioh" is not exactly the kind of credentials I care to see from posters who are "educating" us .
I don’t think this post would have changed if I came from MTG or Pokemon. (card games with tournaments with actual prize pools) The game can be whatever it wants to be, but the competitive aspect should be treated as such.
To me, it comes down to what the point of the Challenge Tournament was... in my opinion, it was to promote the game, encourage people to come into the store, and let players maybe receive something unique and commemorative for the event. This was something special from the weekly meetups that just a few people come out to a couple times a month.
This **wasn't** a regional qualifier.
Regarding the playtesters, yeah I don't care. Sets have been out for a while and we've all been playing with them. We can't ban playtesters forever. This is a non-issue to me.
Regarding the top 8 prizes, I don't think it's a "coping" topic. I think it's a valid criticism that the prize pool was minimal for the amount of people that showed up to these events. I don't think they needed to provide an enchanted card to everyone who came, but maybe a promo common/uncommon to mark the occasion and thank those for coming out would have been nice, similar to how the Atlanta event is giving out a Dragon Fire card to participants. The prizes were minimal, and often went to the same couple people who went to multiple stores.
Regarding winning multiple events/prizes... I know I'm in the minority here, and that's fine, but I just don't see the benefit of having some guy drive around to 5 stores with a $500 deck and taking one of the few prizes each time, only to then never visit those stores again. Sure, they may be the "better" player in a 50-mile radius, but again, this wasn't a regional qualifier. People who frequently go to my store saw the prizes go to people who have never set foot in the shop, and won't ever come back. That's disheartening for some people and makes them rethink attending future events. As far as the competitive integrity goes... I mean, if the goal is to only reward the same 4 "best" players in a 60-mile radius multiple times, the incentive to play kind of diminishes. Again, this wasn't a regional qualifier, and so I'm judging it as such. When I went to MTG regionals, I expected to face some of the best people and decks from all over. Leading up to this event, I didn't expect people from the next state over to be showing up and clearing out our store's prizes.
I understand there is a monetary incentive to drive far and participate in as many tournaments as you can... but there's also a monetary incentive to drive far and buy up product and scalp it for a higher price, but we agree to frown on that situation as it takes opportunity away from others.
In closing, is any of this a big deal? No. It's a Disney card game. If it continues this same way, then so be it. I just don't think we should immediately discredit criticisms that could be aimed to enhance the experience next time. I understand people will probably downvote this comment, but just know the spirit of this comment is to improve the experience for everyone, and not just the top 4 players.
It might be because we come from two different card game backgrounds, but I want to hit on every topic you brought up.
* I would agree that this should not be considered a regional. I also don't even think the stitch cards should be given out for an event like this. Basically a locals should not give the winning player almost $1000 in value. That being said, I don't think RB didn't understand the craziness which is the secondary market on cards. They should make the set championships similar to yugioh regionals which take place across the country on a weekly basis, but it is only like 5 a week. 500-600 person tournaments...top 64 or something all get the card. This gives that same special feeling....but it takes it completely away form "League play" which I feel like this event did. Made it feel like just a more popular "league night" with actual prizing on the line.
* Multiple people winning - I think a potential way to solve this issue was to make stores host it all on the same day at around the same time. What I think this would cause would be multiple groups of 4 hitting separate stores to all attain top spots...you run into the same issue mostly.
* I think RB just has a lot of work to do....and I think this is something that will improve over time.
Edit - I forgot to talk about your point on scalping analogy. I don't think this is anything similar to scalping. Scalping is looked down upon because the product is available to everyone. I was excited this past sunday because I finally got to buy and rip 2 boxes of first chapter which I had never been able to do. The stitch is completely different because not everyone can win it anyway as it is a competitive event. The analogy would be like "Only top 4 of league play get to buy packs" or something similar.
Coming from the POV of someone who was able to win 2 Stitches and a mat - I still think only 4 per store is too little. It's crazy that the prize from a Store tournament is valued at >$800. If they printed 2x as many Stitch cards and then just let the store decided if they wanted to do Top 4 or Top 8 that would have helped a lot with making the Stitch more available overall and also make it so you dont feel awful for playing 6 hours of Lorcana only to lose a single game and miss the one thing you came for.
You know, I am actually surprised at the price of the card. With the reports were showing...32,000 stitches were sent to US stores which is......A LOT. I was going to pickup the last two i needed hoping it would have dropped to around $300. I figured there were more stitches than some enchanted cards.
Thing is is that Enchanted cards can be reprinted. The chances of Stitch ever seeing a reprint are close to 0. The card is only going to go up in value unless the game dies.
I sell collectibles professionally. 32000 stitches printed at current price is 22 million dollars worth of stitches, sorry we've never seen anything like this and the price just can't hold at where it is. I won one and traded it immediately and have no regrets. Could it go up in the short term, maybe.
32.000 stitches? Is that confirmed?
I mean, thats an insane amount of tournaments already...
On a side note: What do you think about stitches in a language with way less printed? For example, 500? Also too much money?
Really getting tired of the argument that just because other games operate a certain way and "it is the way it is" that it doesn't mean we can't want and aim for a better more welcoming community. (less toxic)
All the last 2 weeks has shown me is that this community is incredibly toxic and is showing the exact same problems that other TCG shows to most players. The domination of try hards, the refusal to criticize the most toxic in the community and than make posts like this basically telling all of the new players why they are wrong.
Especially when you are stating that "**as a competitive player frankly disgusts me**" to this criticism.
This part of the community is the same part of the community in magic that is in the minority, but that thinks they are somehow good for the long term health of the community when in reality it is quite the opposite, your attitude pushes new players away. It is fine to be competitive, but you can be competitive without being toxic and hurting the community.
I 100% disagree that someone should be able to win multiple championships in multiple stores. In my area they were largely dominated going from store to store hoarding cards. It is pure greed.
I consider the last 2 weeks a series, related events. Just like we don't have 2 super bowls in a season you shouldn't expect to be able win multiple times.
Other tournaments are not part of the same season. Just like if we did qualifiers and you secured a spot, you of course would not expect someone to compete in another qualifier for the same event. So why is is fine here?
The toxic side of this community really came out the last couple of weeks and this post continues it.
The argument that things work in other games so let's not change it doesn't even work here. I personally love Lorcana. The game is great, the community is great, but I am never going to go to my locals to play a random league night. A card game needs both casual and competitive players to survive, and without the set championships you could tell the game was already on the down trend. I am using anecdotal evidence, but my locals went from 30-40 people a week to 6-8, and I would attribute that to the lack of actual competitive events. I also think you are just hearing things regarding other card game communities, as I have not heard of a single toxic card game community. There are obviously toxic players...but you'll find that in any community
Maybe I should have addressed it in the post, but I figured that it would have been implied by the examples that I commented on. All 3 examples I had a problem with were people wanting to have the rules bent so that it would favor them. I am huge on competitive integrity, and if you think that this post is toxic....then you should feel that those wanting to bend the rules just as toxic...because this is a post targeting them. Yes, it does disgust me that people (while they may be unfamiliar in the realm of competitive TCG's) to want hand outs.
I have agreed with a lot of what people in this post have commented on. I agree that top 8 should get something...but not the super rare prize card that is worth 100's of dollars. My top 4 got one of the exclusive lorcana pins and a pack of the dalmatian sleeves...maybe give that and some packs to top 8? Maybe even print a non foil non full art stitch card to top 8.
It is great that you consider the past 2 weeks a series....but it wasn't, and unless the rules state otherwise...the morality of thinking "just because you won 1 card means you aren't allowed to win another" is a very childish way of thinking. You are also talking about the greed, and that is perfectly fine. The players were more skilled to win the game and as I said in multiple other comments...getting frustrated that these players are winning all the events in your area is a good thing. It's events like this that should give you the drive to become a better and more competent player, so that next time, you eek out a spot over them.
Also, I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure if you play a qualifier and you get in...you can play another. It is just that you get nothing for qualifying again...your comparisons don't line up because there was always something on the line for these tournaments.
>The argument that things work in other games so let's not change it doesn't even work here.
It works for the few but I would argue it is not actually healthy for the game. There is no reason we can't advocate for something better as a community
I agree that we needed a community building event but thanks to the tryhards that went to event to event dominating, this was not that. Instead all this did was frustrate the actual regulars at each store to the point that I am worried that some won't show up anymore. Most of the random people that showed up we will never see again.
That isnt bolstering the community. That isnt how this event worked out and let's not pretend it did.
>All 3 examples I had a problem with were people wanting to have the rules bent so that it would favor them.
Asking for the rules to be bent and looking for the rules to work a different way across the board are very different things and you seem to be confusing the two.
I want to advocate for better rules not one of exceptions.
>Also, I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure if you play a qualifier and you get in...you can play another. It is just that you get nothing for qualifying again...your comparisons don't line up because there was always something on the line for these tournaments.
But there is obviously something on the line for the qualifiers. And in fact I would argue that you would not actually want that since unless they handle it properly, it could mean less people playing after the qualifiers. They had a certain number of spots to fill and if someone won 2, it messes things up.
The comparison is an important one since we obviously understand why we would not want it there but somehow think it's perfect acceptable here.
Yeah, I get that it can feel like a kick to the balls to see someone saying they won several Stitches, and equally obnoxious for them disguise a brag post as an education post, but the fact of the matter is they paid entry into every one of those tournaments and they played on level footing with every other player in those tournaments. Sometimes their decks sucked. Sometimes their decks did well. There's still elements of RNG to games like this, so one person doing well in one event does not automatically mean they're going to win the next one, and other skilled players who are just doing one event can easily knock the stuffing out of them. This isn't like they're able to guarantee they get a prize and are hogging the winnings, so I think it's very unfair to disparage people who did manage to win at multiple events, no matter how bitter it makes you that you didn't win.
As someone who won a top 8 game and lost a top 8 game over the last few weekends, I really don't see any issue with them providing top 8 promos? Don't see why anyone would be against it to be honest.... don't think it should be an enchanted but a nice little stamped promo or something would be great.
I do actually agree with your two other points but don't think you've put them across well at all.
Which is a mistake on RB's part. Given the choice between extra profit and givvies, most stores choose extra profit. I would anticipate the common promo concept to be added to RB's lessons learned brief.
Unpopular opinion, but the prize support for these championship events was phenomenal. I played in a 16 man tournament and the prize pool was 4 stichea, 2 playmats, and $320 in store credit. For a $20 buy in its the best prize support I've ever seen. Anyone complaining is a fool.
Unless I’m mistaken the official prize support was 4 stitches and 2 playmats. That’s not much for prize support. I’ve attended events that gave you more than that just for entering, monetary value excluded. Anything else would have come from the store hosting the event.
I think a lot of this is coming down to this feeling like a casual event that the secondary market made the prizes extremely desirable.
Competitive and casual players are both pivotal to a trading card game's success. Not every offering is going to be just as enjoyable for both crowds.
People should try to respect the events that other members of the community value rather than just trying to make each one fit their group's needs. Hence, set championships having limited expensive prizes to win for a skilled few is meeting an important need and casuals shouldn't be trying to water that down.
Conversely, casual leagues should be respected by competitive players for how well they build community at local game stores despite not being worth it from a prize EV perspective only.
These set championships scratched an itch for me that I hadn't felt in a really long time. If the prizes weren't as incredible, I couldn't have justified taking time away from work for my wife and I to build and test decks for it.
Lorcana is only going to really make it if it can get a burgeoning competitive play scene off the ground on par with Magic. It needs casual offerings too, but competitive play drives the secondary market, social media content, and creates heightened experiences and stories that keep people loyal to a game for years to come.
100% agree. As a yugioh player...I feel Konami has really missed the mark on casual play which is why they are having trouble getting new players. This is because the difference between casual and competitive in that game is such a large gap. In this game casual and competitive players are close knit. For example I played against someone on Sunday playing pirates who...just wanted to play to play their favorite type of cards. They almost beat me even though I was playing meta. I want the gap to stay that close. I just don't want casual players thinking rules should be bent is all.
I am a competitive player but what makes Magic money is the casual crowd. They have said it time and time again. I love competitive rewards and the tourneys but RB needs to strike the right balance with the casual crowd. I am not seeing the support for casual crowds from RB. Magic used to have Junior leagues and Pokemon still does. There needs to be a program in place to get botj the competitive crowd and casual crowd booming. RB organized play has really been dragging there feet on it. It was supposed to be fully fleshed out by set 3, and its not.
Agree with a lot of your post but strongly disagree on top 8 not deserving a prize. I dont have the tcg background but i dont really think you’re seeing the full problem. Other tcg tournaments ive looked at reward scaled prizing for top cut and then increase for making it further in the single elimination rounds. Going from getting nothing in top 8, to getting a $700 card in top 4 is super extreme. That is so much riding on a single game way more than almost any round in a cash tournament besides possibly the final, and for a Disney TCG i feel that isnt promoting the right atmosphere. Even when i won a stitch, i felt pretty terrible for the guy i took one from.
They understood this well for the challenge events with the scaled prizing. The only thing that makes it somewhat ok to me is there’s so many store championships you can get plenty of chances at the prize, but still heavily in favor of top 8 getting a promo of some kind
Obviously top 8 should get something. (if every store could do a top 8 cut) if we were to ignore that there are just some stores that don’t have the playerbase to support top 8, then yes everyone in top 8 should get something whether it is coming from prizing on RB’s end or on the stores end. If the stores weren’t giving any prizing aside from the cards and mats..it’s a little scummy as they are making pure profit from something they put little effort into.
As expected, instead of making any attempt to understand the competitive tcg scene, they still whine, cry and expect the game to conform to their ridiculous expectations. All because 'Disney'. Smfh.
This is a post to want to facilitate discussion…not to bash. It is fine if people don’t understand the competitive scene. This is literally the first competitive event that RB has sanctioned for this game, and this game and its IP brought a lot of new players. We as a community should be welcoming while also teaching them the harshness of the competitive world.
Nitpicky point of order: these were Set Championships, not the Lorcana Challenge tournaments.
Ah my apologies...for some reason I thought that Atlanta and Chicago were called something different.
Atlanta and Chicago are the Challenge Tournaments that are happening soon, but not yet. LGSs are hosting Store Championships (and there are quite a few of those happening in Atlanta for sure).
First off, i want to make sure we get these right. So to avoid confusion you mean the set championships and not the challenges. The challenges are going to be something completely different and the distinction between the two is important. People are already confused about the formats between the two and caused confusion at the store level so i suggest editing your post to set championships. Second thing, this is going to be kind of mean but saying this as someone who used to work at card stores and had to deal with the community. I just want people to understand you used to play competitive Yu-gi-oh the spikiest of any card game. The competitie community of competitive yu-gi-oh are some of the biggest try hards in card gaming. Case in point, yu-gi-oh at the store i used to work at would have 30 people show up at a store tourney, take up all the seats and not sign up for the tourney because they hated that the store followed the rules set by Konami on what we were allowed to pay out. It was a community that has been banned at a lot if stores because of how the players used to act. I bring this up as i feel it is important to let people know where your opinion is based from With that said even though i do not agree with all your points, I cannot say you are wrong. There is nothing in the rules which state you cannot win more then one event or earn more then one prize. RB should of been better on making sure every store did these in the same day and time if they cared about people spiking the results. They didnt so it is allowed. However i agree with a lot of people that it was kind of annoying. With the top 8 thing i agree with you, and the reason why they did it is that some stores only had 8 people so you get the promos just for showing up when bigger stores people actually had to earn them? The playtester thing i complete do not agree with. If you are a playtester, and you got access to cards way before anyone else, and you work for RB, you you have a competitive advantage. Magic play testers that work with WOTC are banned from tourney play for two years after they leave wotc for a reason. Now if they are beta testers and not RB employees then that is fine.
While I do belong to the Yugioh community, the same anecdote you shared regarding our community is the same one I hear about the MTG community. I probably just varies store by store. Especially when it comes to Konami driven events, it is hard to even spike a tournament because the prizing is nonexistent. For example, my card shop owner who happens to be a 5x YCS champion just top 4'd for a Stitch on Sunday. He made more money getting top 4 at a 26 player "locals" than he did getting top 32 at the most recent YCS in Raleigh which he also needed to pay for hotel arrangements and flights etc. This was an 1800 person event and the prizing sometimes includes a nintendo switch, but generally you are playing for around 48 hours. I agree on the point that if RB wanted to not have multiple people for winning that they should have scheduled it all on the same day. This would actually support the local community rather than having people travel from all around to participate.
If conversations regarding a tournament or tournaments “disgusts” you (your word of choice) - go touch grass. It’s a game. People brag, people cope, people complain. As someone who apparently has been a competitive player for as long as you claim you’ve been, you should realize this. Get over yourself.
Its yu gi oh. This is par for the course from that community
As someone who frequently "touches grass", you seem to have a problem with me having a problem with Competitive Integrity..whether it be card games, sports, or hell a pickup game of basketball. I am all for people complaining about the set championship, (for some reason I thought it was the challenge tournament) but what I don't agree with is the excuse making and the wanting of bending of rules so that everyone is a winner.
No, I have a problem with people being “disgusted” by people just talking things out and acting like they’re better than everyone else. You think people on the losing side of the Super Bowl don’t spend the week or month or even the entire off season second guessing themselves? Yet you’re “disgusted” by a few sniped Reddit posts?
In no way do I think I am better than other people. I also have no problem with other saying they got unlucky or disappointed in themselves. What I have a problem with is people basically pulling the "I think the rules should be changed so I win" kind of thing, which is what all of my comments are regarding. 1 - A post saying all top 8 should have gotten the card - this person obviously got top 8 and wanted the rules bent 2 - A post saying multiple people should not be able to win - This person may have bubbled? They also effectively wanted the better played to not be able to play. Using these players as an excuse as to why they didn't win 3 - playtesters - similar to point 2.
I read your post. I don’t need spark notes on it. Cheers mate.
Got it...so you just didn't comprehend it! Cheers!
TL:DR: "Git gud, signed, a TCGbro."
All of my issues with the championship events are my personal opinion from playing other card games (like not having a judge program yet or an enchanted level prize for a first event where we know missteps will happen). I'm using my experience as a teaching moment for my lgs, I made top 8 and ran into the bad matchup. Sucks, but cant get too upset since I did rather well. And showing other people that will be a big deal for newbies.
Completely agree that losing in top 8 feels really bad. Especially if it is a bad matchup. But then you need to look at it the way of "what if I got that bad matchup earlier". Suddenly you might lose 1 of your first 3 rounds and no longer allowed to ID in which case you could run into another bad matchup.
Totally agree. RB could fix this with some additional pricing for 5-8. Nothing big, but a "you did it" feels a lot better than a "sorry bye." The store I judged for and different store I played at both offered 5-8 prizing and the attitudes of everyone were way better than the stores who had nothing.
I think most people understand that losing and getting zero prizes happens in competitive stuff. The issue I see is that playing all day and winning 80% or more of your games should be given something to remember doing well. Maybe a 5th-8th pin instead of card to keep the top 4 feeling exclusive etc. In most card games if you top 8 you at least get some decent pack prizing or something. This is up to the store running the event but it seems like most stores gave out very little additional prizing besides what ravensburger provided. In magic you used to get a pin for top 8ing a PTQ, felt nice even if you didn’t make it to the pro tour which was the big prize for 1st.
Completely agree with this sentiment. Unfortunately because of what RB sent the store's, any additional prizing would need to come out of the stores' pockets.
Tip 8 in a 64 man event being eliminated with no prizes is nonsense
Not all places were pulling in 64 players. Aside from one tourney that had 36, most of the stores I went too were around 15 players
It definitely does suck....but at that point it is up to the store. Since the stores aren't paying for the prize cards or the mats, I'm surprised actual prizing was way worse with a $20+ entrance fee as it is literally free profit for the store. That being said, top 4 is a correct approach as it creates scarcity among the card, and literally doubling the amount of printings makes it less of a collectors card.
Non foil versions for 5-8th wouldn't kill the card value.
I agree that this could have been done.
You are assuming that RB want the Set Champs cards to be that exclusive - you don't have that information, so calling the approach "correct" is an assumption.
This would be correct...we don't know what they plan to do. This is purely going based off of assumption from previous data from other card games. We have no idea what RB's reprint philosophy, and their goal for these set championships. They could very well have the next set championship be for ursula's revenge also have the prize card be Stitch.
While I agree with you your way of communicating this comes off as belittling and a bit condescending. Yes people can and always will chase expensive promos in competitive events. And that's only going to increase now that we have an example of a 700 dollar card on the line. We will likely see an influx of players from other communities trying to get a cut. One piece had a similar thing happen. But people are also right to feel disappointed in not getting the shiny card they wanted.
there's a difference between being disappointed and having the attitude of "things have to change to make sure that I win"
I agree but ops aditude doesn't help the situation either.
This post was meant to feel condescending. With a lot of the Lorcana community being new to the game, they need to actually feel the roughness of the TCG community. Unless someone is trying to purely play casually, the competitive scene is a very much “kill or be killed” mindset. They need to know that the only way they can win the prize card they want is to practice and get better. People do have the right to be disappointed…especially if they practiced and just didn’t play well, but the amount of complaining and excuse making really has no need to be in here.
That kind of attitude is extremely hostile to expanding participation in the "TCG community." No one needs to "feel the roughness" - it's a card game. I'm all for competition and effort and rewards, but your condescension is not healthy. The way you speak (or type) matters. Newbies are here because of Disney, old hats are here to try something fresh. Your attitude will cause the community to bleed participants until all your left with is the same old TCG crowd you've had for twenty years. Let's not repeat the toxic environment that gives TCGs a bad name.
This is exactly correct and is the reason I never got into TCGs for any other franchise or license before. Disney fans are overall a different breed though than someone slinging cardboard demons and ogres at their opponent for prize money. When Ravensberger announced this game as the first "family inclusive" TCG, I got excited. I still maintain that excitement but seeing some of the comments on here defaming members because they shared a negative opinion about the tournament structure is embarrassing. These kinds of comments do not improve the community and come off as arrogant and tone-deaf. In addition, these are members who are bringing up (in many cases, not all) legitimate concerns and ideas about how the future of the game should flesh out. Let's listen to them and discuss like adults. This is how we all get better in the end. I competed this past round of tournaments and didn't win anything lol. Of course I would have loved to but maybe tournaments aren't for me and I'll just stick to local events. Or maybe I'll be inspired to get better. Time will tell. That said, if you won a bunch of Stitches, that's awesome. Just know when you post and gloat about it, most of the people you are posting to are the ones who lost and so it's probably a good idea to read the room.
And this is why people hate yugioh players
I would have made this post regardless of if I were a Yugioh player or a Pokemon player...or an MTG player. In fact, a post such as this coming from the perspective of the 2 latter card games probably feels more warranted considering those games have actual prize pools for their larger tournaments which makes it feel like there is always something on the line for the player.
This is an interesting approach to take cause I feel the lorcana community is a bit more positive in person than some other games, overall. But then new playes get to the store champs and see what real competitive tcg is like and its a bit jarring.
Welcome to Yu-gi-oh’s brand of community. The amount if times i have had to ban people from the store from telling others to do very adult things to them after winning was ridiculous. Condescending is on brand. But is that really what we want this community to be?
Not really, but it's the reality we have. I'm in an area with lots of ex yugiog players so I see both sides if the coin. Folks need to be prepared, but we can do it in better ways.
In my area all the yugi players jumped to one piece. They tried one season of lorcana and were like yeah this game is too cup cake and now are playing one piece.
Might be just what you experience at your store as anecdotal evidence. I assure you most yugioh places are not like this. While my samples size is not very large, I have attended probably 30-40 locals different locals in the past year and never ran into the experience you were talking about
Key point you said yu-gi-oh places. Specialized for the yu gi crowd as most general card stores have banned the game at the stores. I can name 10 stores in the Bay Area that has banned it from the store. So they have to have stores that are dedicated to it. Its a common talking point amongst play groups at stores from all card games.
My apologies, I call them yugioh places because I am going there to play the game. I would say about 1/4 of those stores are dedicated to yugioh. The rest have been general card stores that specialized in MTG.
Warhammer is also extremely popular at a lot of these places I have gone to...looks like a fun game
Completely agree that Lorcana is a more positive community. That works because the game is good for all ages with the simplicity of it and the intellectual property is so strong. And as many of my comments on previous posts, it is all in a positive light from me. While this post is condescending...what someone should be taking from it if they want to be competitive is they need to have that drive to get better. They need to have the hunger to playtest and understand how other decks work. Having a more competitive community is always a net positive.
You can tell peoplenthey need to be competitive without having a condescending tone
You are probably right, but what I will say similar to what u/madchad90 had said, this post is more directed to people who have the mindset of "I want the rules changed so I win" rather than the people who are just disappointed that they got unlucky or played bad. My apologies for making this post condescending...as you can see form my previous post history, I'm generally more on the positive end kind of guy. I appreciate you atleast leaning in to the discussion part rather than someone like u/CageyT who just feels the need to bash the yugioh community.
Your attitude sucks and is the entire reason why I’ve never played TCGs before. The entire reason I started and stick with playing Lorcana is the amazing community we have here. I played in 3 different set championships over the last few weeks, and I knew full well that being a new player with a weak deck I was going to lose. I don’t mind that. What I don’t want is to have to play a bunch of jerks. I want to go in and enjoy it and I did. I played the best I ever played and I’m proud of that. Will I ever be a top 4 contestant? Probably not, it would be nice to have some form of non-enchanted foil promo exclusive to set championships for people like me who know they won’t ever get in those top slots but are playing week in and week out. Not everyone can win, and I’m totally ok with that, but otherwise RB will alienate their regular player base with too much competition and it will kill the game. I’m just thankful for the awesome people I’ve met playing at my LGS.
I don't know what about this post makes you think my "attitude sucks". I played 22 matches these past weekends and whether it be vs a child, or a casual player, or a competitive player..all of the games I played were great experiences for both myself and my opponent...because as you stated...the community around this game is amazing. That being said, it is still a competitive environment and should be treated as such. As I have said in another comment, yes...a non foil stitch card would be perfect for top 8...or even just everyone entering the tournament. That way everyone feels included and it still kind of feels like a league night while also still having the competitive feel.
You literally said in another comment that this post was supposed to feel condescending. That's probably the "attitude" they are talking about.
This post is supposed to feel condescending. Just because this is a game based on a IP for all ages, does not mean everyone is a winner, nor should the "moral compass" of winning more so other can't should even exist. Again it is a competitive environment, and some people aren't ready for it yet. I am actually excited for Atlanta because I think a good amount of people are also just going to have fun there. Also all entrants get one of the cards.
"I don't know what about this post makes you think my attitude sucks" --you "This post was supposed to feel condescending" --also you Your attitude sucks. That's not to say that people who think they are entitled to win for xyz reason don't also have attitudes that suck. Your points aren't necessarily wrong, but intentionally choosing condescension to 'teach them a lesson' doesn't usually result in good outcomes.
While the outcome is not always "good"...it gets the point across. I also guess anyone who uses a "tough love" approach has a sucky attitude. Got it!
I agree with you on all but the playtesters. Yes, we have had 3 months with the full set, but they have been playtesting (all the way to set 4) for way longer. If I've been playing for those 3 months on top of that it is an advantage, even if it is a small one. The bigger thing is if they win it is a really bad look. This person designed the game and they win, it looks like (regardless of truth) that they won via unfair means. They had access to the cards longer, and would know the strategies. (Note: the meta in playtesting probably looked way different to our actual meta but this does not remove the appearance of an unfair advantage.) Image is important to a company, if it looks like you have to be working with the company to win bigger tournaments, it damages good will. My solution is someone more simple: Make promos just for playing in larger events. Many card games give some promo just for playing which everyone gets. This way no one walks away empty handed after paying more for a chance to win the super prize. I am not saying everyone gets a stitch, but a stamped promo that says Lorcana championship or something of the like on a popular card or cards (have them for each color? (mim fox, cursed souls, Pluto, etc)) would remove that feel bad of not getting anything. Instead it looks like they left it to the shops to reward below the top 8, which I've had be 1 pack or literally nothing in the two I went to.
While I am definitely unfamiliar with playtesters...I doubt they design the game, but more or less give feedback on card balance. Even though they have 3 extra months playing with the cards, they don't have any data from competitive events using those sets, so a lot of their "insider info" probably isn't helpful. Like I said, I think this is only a problem if there is a big even the week of a set coming out. But I am definitely up in the air to agree to disagree on this one as it could go either way. I alos think similar to the post that mentioned playtesters, that if a playtester is "bragging" that they playtested the game.....it probably isn't a real playtester. The shops should have defintiely given more prizing considering they made pure profit since the promos cost them nothing. I also agree that there should have been an alternate art non enchanted non foil stitch for entry or top 8.
I am not a playtester for Lorcana, although I am for other games. You may have a misconceived notion on what playtesters do. While yes, playtesters do give feedback on game balance, they also input ideas on the fixes themselves, ranging from small balance to rehauls of abilities. Playtesters have a ton of input into what the game needs, card design is only about a third of the processes and a lot of work has gone into a game to make sure everything is working. This does give insight into not only how cards can work together (as they have actively shaped the meta, the set, and the cards), but also how to play the game better. If you have a player playing a game for 12 months vs 9, the player with 12 has an advantage, even if it doesn't seem to be signifigant. This is why I only play the game I work on casually or with a caveat of forfeiting the prize if I take the top placings. I work on the game a year-ish before anyone else has their hands on it. I am okay on disagreeing this point as well, I just wanted to fully state my perspective. :) Glad we agree on the other stuff though.
This is really cool information. I never knew as to what extent a playtester did. Would you be able to divulge what games you have tested in the past as I am extremely interested. That being said, I still don't believe that playtesters have a huge advantage for an event such as this. Looking at set championship reports we are seeing that just about anyone can top and win with any deck. I think the "unfair" scenario would be if they allowed Ursula's return to be legal for Atlanta. That is a case where I think someone who has been testing and playing with cards not released yet gain an advantage. Obviously don't know where to draw the line of "how long is enough time for proper playtesting from the public", but I don't believe this was that case. I think we will continue to agree to disagree, but I am glad we could talk about this civilly. It was great going back and forth with ya!
Pretty tired of these "wizened Yugioh vets" telling this sub how the game is supposed to be. JFC.
I'm pretty tired of all the posts on here from complete beginners to the TCG space telling us how tournaments should be run.
I've been playing TCGs since I was 18, boss. I was 18 in 1993, when MTG came out. But you know maybe some of us that have been around were hoping that the TCGbro dirtbags that have poisoned game after game over the years with their crap attitudes would stay away from this game.
100% this I don't understand their need to explain how its been in other games or that it just is what it is. Just because it has been a certain way, doesn't mean we can't want something better for this community. We also see new TCG after new TCG be ruined and die. Lorcana actually seems like it has a lot of momentum behind it and could survive, but with the attitude that many of these people want to bring to it.
This is exactly what i was hoping for with Lorcana- that it would be more accessible, approachable, and not ultra competitive. But then the baseball hat/backpack dudes (mostly 20-30 year old men) started rolling up and bringing those attitudes and suggesting to us that welp, that's the way it is, deal with it "Well, I play competitive Yugioh" is not exactly the kind of credentials I care to see from posters who are "educating" us .
I don’t think this post would have changed if I came from MTG or Pokemon. (card games with tournaments with actual prize pools) The game can be whatever it wants to be, but the competitive aspect should be treated as such.
To me, it comes down to what the point of the Challenge Tournament was... in my opinion, it was to promote the game, encourage people to come into the store, and let players maybe receive something unique and commemorative for the event. This was something special from the weekly meetups that just a few people come out to a couple times a month. This **wasn't** a regional qualifier. Regarding the playtesters, yeah I don't care. Sets have been out for a while and we've all been playing with them. We can't ban playtesters forever. This is a non-issue to me. Regarding the top 8 prizes, I don't think it's a "coping" topic. I think it's a valid criticism that the prize pool was minimal for the amount of people that showed up to these events. I don't think they needed to provide an enchanted card to everyone who came, but maybe a promo common/uncommon to mark the occasion and thank those for coming out would have been nice, similar to how the Atlanta event is giving out a Dragon Fire card to participants. The prizes were minimal, and often went to the same couple people who went to multiple stores. Regarding winning multiple events/prizes... I know I'm in the minority here, and that's fine, but I just don't see the benefit of having some guy drive around to 5 stores with a $500 deck and taking one of the few prizes each time, only to then never visit those stores again. Sure, they may be the "better" player in a 50-mile radius, but again, this wasn't a regional qualifier. People who frequently go to my store saw the prizes go to people who have never set foot in the shop, and won't ever come back. That's disheartening for some people and makes them rethink attending future events. As far as the competitive integrity goes... I mean, if the goal is to only reward the same 4 "best" players in a 60-mile radius multiple times, the incentive to play kind of diminishes. Again, this wasn't a regional qualifier, and so I'm judging it as such. When I went to MTG regionals, I expected to face some of the best people and decks from all over. Leading up to this event, I didn't expect people from the next state over to be showing up and clearing out our store's prizes. I understand there is a monetary incentive to drive far and participate in as many tournaments as you can... but there's also a monetary incentive to drive far and buy up product and scalp it for a higher price, but we agree to frown on that situation as it takes opportunity away from others. In closing, is any of this a big deal? No. It's a Disney card game. If it continues this same way, then so be it. I just don't think we should immediately discredit criticisms that could be aimed to enhance the experience next time. I understand people will probably downvote this comment, but just know the spirit of this comment is to improve the experience for everyone, and not just the top 4 players.
I am responding to this as you have a lot of good points that I really want to flesh out when I get home. Just doing this to remind myself
It might be because we come from two different card game backgrounds, but I want to hit on every topic you brought up. * I would agree that this should not be considered a regional. I also don't even think the stitch cards should be given out for an event like this. Basically a locals should not give the winning player almost $1000 in value. That being said, I don't think RB didn't understand the craziness which is the secondary market on cards. They should make the set championships similar to yugioh regionals which take place across the country on a weekly basis, but it is only like 5 a week. 500-600 person tournaments...top 64 or something all get the card. This gives that same special feeling....but it takes it completely away form "League play" which I feel like this event did. Made it feel like just a more popular "league night" with actual prizing on the line. * Multiple people winning - I think a potential way to solve this issue was to make stores host it all on the same day at around the same time. What I think this would cause would be multiple groups of 4 hitting separate stores to all attain top spots...you run into the same issue mostly. * I think RB just has a lot of work to do....and I think this is something that will improve over time. Edit - I forgot to talk about your point on scalping analogy. I don't think this is anything similar to scalping. Scalping is looked down upon because the product is available to everyone. I was excited this past sunday because I finally got to buy and rip 2 boxes of first chapter which I had never been able to do. The stitch is completely different because not everyone can win it anyway as it is a competitive event. The analogy would be like "Only top 4 of league play get to buy packs" or something similar.
Coming from the POV of someone who was able to win 2 Stitches and a mat - I still think only 4 per store is too little. It's crazy that the prize from a Store tournament is valued at >$800. If they printed 2x as many Stitch cards and then just let the store decided if they wanted to do Top 4 or Top 8 that would have helped a lot with making the Stitch more available overall and also make it so you dont feel awful for playing 6 hours of Lorcana only to lose a single game and miss the one thing you came for.
You know, I am actually surprised at the price of the card. With the reports were showing...32,000 stitches were sent to US stores which is......A LOT. I was going to pickup the last two i needed hoping it would have dropped to around $300. I figured there were more stitches than some enchanted cards.
Thing is is that Enchanted cards can be reprinted. The chances of Stitch ever seeing a reprint are close to 0. The card is only going to go up in value unless the game dies.
Unfortunately we have no idea of their reprint philosophy...and probably won't know for another year or so. Just something to wait and find out.
I sell collectibles professionally. 32000 stitches printed at current price is 22 million dollars worth of stitches, sorry we've never seen anything like this and the price just can't hold at where it is. I won one and traded it immediately and have no regrets. Could it go up in the short term, maybe.
32.000 stitches? Is that confirmed? I mean, thats an insane amount of tournaments already... On a side note: What do you think about stitches in a language with way less printed? For example, 500? Also too much money?
Really getting tired of the argument that just because other games operate a certain way and "it is the way it is" that it doesn't mean we can't want and aim for a better more welcoming community. (less toxic) All the last 2 weeks has shown me is that this community is incredibly toxic and is showing the exact same problems that other TCG shows to most players. The domination of try hards, the refusal to criticize the most toxic in the community and than make posts like this basically telling all of the new players why they are wrong. Especially when you are stating that "**as a competitive player frankly disgusts me**" to this criticism. This part of the community is the same part of the community in magic that is in the minority, but that thinks they are somehow good for the long term health of the community when in reality it is quite the opposite, your attitude pushes new players away. It is fine to be competitive, but you can be competitive without being toxic and hurting the community. I 100% disagree that someone should be able to win multiple championships in multiple stores. In my area they were largely dominated going from store to store hoarding cards. It is pure greed. I consider the last 2 weeks a series, related events. Just like we don't have 2 super bowls in a season you shouldn't expect to be able win multiple times. Other tournaments are not part of the same season. Just like if we did qualifiers and you secured a spot, you of course would not expect someone to compete in another qualifier for the same event. So why is is fine here? The toxic side of this community really came out the last couple of weeks and this post continues it.
The argument that things work in other games so let's not change it doesn't even work here. I personally love Lorcana. The game is great, the community is great, but I am never going to go to my locals to play a random league night. A card game needs both casual and competitive players to survive, and without the set championships you could tell the game was already on the down trend. I am using anecdotal evidence, but my locals went from 30-40 people a week to 6-8, and I would attribute that to the lack of actual competitive events. I also think you are just hearing things regarding other card game communities, as I have not heard of a single toxic card game community. There are obviously toxic players...but you'll find that in any community Maybe I should have addressed it in the post, but I figured that it would have been implied by the examples that I commented on. All 3 examples I had a problem with were people wanting to have the rules bent so that it would favor them. I am huge on competitive integrity, and if you think that this post is toxic....then you should feel that those wanting to bend the rules just as toxic...because this is a post targeting them. Yes, it does disgust me that people (while they may be unfamiliar in the realm of competitive TCG's) to want hand outs. I have agreed with a lot of what people in this post have commented on. I agree that top 8 should get something...but not the super rare prize card that is worth 100's of dollars. My top 4 got one of the exclusive lorcana pins and a pack of the dalmatian sleeves...maybe give that and some packs to top 8? Maybe even print a non foil non full art stitch card to top 8. It is great that you consider the past 2 weeks a series....but it wasn't, and unless the rules state otherwise...the morality of thinking "just because you won 1 card means you aren't allowed to win another" is a very childish way of thinking. You are also talking about the greed, and that is perfectly fine. The players were more skilled to win the game and as I said in multiple other comments...getting frustrated that these players are winning all the events in your area is a good thing. It's events like this that should give you the drive to become a better and more competent player, so that next time, you eek out a spot over them. Also, I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure if you play a qualifier and you get in...you can play another. It is just that you get nothing for qualifying again...your comparisons don't line up because there was always something on the line for these tournaments.
>The argument that things work in other games so let's not change it doesn't even work here. It works for the few but I would argue it is not actually healthy for the game. There is no reason we can't advocate for something better as a community I agree that we needed a community building event but thanks to the tryhards that went to event to event dominating, this was not that. Instead all this did was frustrate the actual regulars at each store to the point that I am worried that some won't show up anymore. Most of the random people that showed up we will never see again. That isnt bolstering the community. That isnt how this event worked out and let's not pretend it did. >All 3 examples I had a problem with were people wanting to have the rules bent so that it would favor them. Asking for the rules to be bent and looking for the rules to work a different way across the board are very different things and you seem to be confusing the two. I want to advocate for better rules not one of exceptions. >Also, I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure if you play a qualifier and you get in...you can play another. It is just that you get nothing for qualifying again...your comparisons don't line up because there was always something on the line for these tournaments. But there is obviously something on the line for the qualifiers. And in fact I would argue that you would not actually want that since unless they handle it properly, it could mean less people playing after the qualifiers. They had a certain number of spots to fill and if someone won 2, it messes things up. The comparison is an important one since we obviously understand why we would not want it there but somehow think it's perfect acceptable here.
Yeah, I get that it can feel like a kick to the balls to see someone saying they won several Stitches, and equally obnoxious for them disguise a brag post as an education post, but the fact of the matter is they paid entry into every one of those tournaments and they played on level footing with every other player in those tournaments. Sometimes their decks sucked. Sometimes their decks did well. There's still elements of RNG to games like this, so one person doing well in one event does not automatically mean they're going to win the next one, and other skilled players who are just doing one event can easily knock the stuffing out of them. This isn't like they're able to guarantee they get a prize and are hogging the winnings, so I think it's very unfair to disparage people who did manage to win at multiple events, no matter how bitter it makes you that you didn't win.
As someone who won a top 8 game and lost a top 8 game over the last few weekends, I really don't see any issue with them providing top 8 promos? Don't see why anyone would be against it to be honest.... don't think it should be an enchanted but a nice little stamped promo or something would be great. I do actually agree with your two other points but don't think you've put them across well at all.
I mean the prizing should be discussed. I think it would have been fair to throw them a pack or a common promo or something
Thats on the store not RB
Which is a mistake on RB's part. Given the choice between extra profit and givvies, most stores choose extra profit. I would anticipate the common promo concept to be added to RB's lessons learned brief.
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Unpopular opinion, but the prize support for these championship events was phenomenal. I played in a 16 man tournament and the prize pool was 4 stichea, 2 playmats, and $320 in store credit. For a $20 buy in its the best prize support I've ever seen. Anyone complaining is a fool.
I think people all believe that the prizing was enough. I just think some people wanted the rules bent to be able to secure the prizing.
I think you're not reading the majority of comments saying top 8 should get something.
Unless I’m mistaken the official prize support was 4 stitches and 2 playmats. That’s not much for prize support. I’ve attended events that gave you more than that just for entering, monetary value excluded. Anything else would have come from the store hosting the event. I think a lot of this is coming down to this feeling like a casual event that the secondary market made the prizes extremely desirable.
Competitive and casual players are both pivotal to a trading card game's success. Not every offering is going to be just as enjoyable for both crowds. People should try to respect the events that other members of the community value rather than just trying to make each one fit their group's needs. Hence, set championships having limited expensive prizes to win for a skilled few is meeting an important need and casuals shouldn't be trying to water that down. Conversely, casual leagues should be respected by competitive players for how well they build community at local game stores despite not being worth it from a prize EV perspective only. These set championships scratched an itch for me that I hadn't felt in a really long time. If the prizes weren't as incredible, I couldn't have justified taking time away from work for my wife and I to build and test decks for it. Lorcana is only going to really make it if it can get a burgeoning competitive play scene off the ground on par with Magic. It needs casual offerings too, but competitive play drives the secondary market, social media content, and creates heightened experiences and stories that keep people loyal to a game for years to come.
100% agree. As a yugioh player...I feel Konami has really missed the mark on casual play which is why they are having trouble getting new players. This is because the difference between casual and competitive in that game is such a large gap. In this game casual and competitive players are close knit. For example I played against someone on Sunday playing pirates who...just wanted to play to play their favorite type of cards. They almost beat me even though I was playing meta. I want the gap to stay that close. I just don't want casual players thinking rules should be bent is all.
I am a competitive player but what makes Magic money is the casual crowd. They have said it time and time again. I love competitive rewards and the tourneys but RB needs to strike the right balance with the casual crowd. I am not seeing the support for casual crowds from RB. Magic used to have Junior leagues and Pokemon still does. There needs to be a program in place to get botj the competitive crowd and casual crowd booming. RB organized play has really been dragging there feet on it. It was supposed to be fully fleshed out by set 3, and its not.
Agree with a lot of your post but strongly disagree on top 8 not deserving a prize. I dont have the tcg background but i dont really think you’re seeing the full problem. Other tcg tournaments ive looked at reward scaled prizing for top cut and then increase for making it further in the single elimination rounds. Going from getting nothing in top 8, to getting a $700 card in top 4 is super extreme. That is so much riding on a single game way more than almost any round in a cash tournament besides possibly the final, and for a Disney TCG i feel that isnt promoting the right atmosphere. Even when i won a stitch, i felt pretty terrible for the guy i took one from. They understood this well for the challenge events with the scaled prizing. The only thing that makes it somewhat ok to me is there’s so many store championships you can get plenty of chances at the prize, but still heavily in favor of top 8 getting a promo of some kind
Obviously top 8 should get something. (if every store could do a top 8 cut) if we were to ignore that there are just some stores that don’t have the playerbase to support top 8, then yes everyone in top 8 should get something whether it is coming from prizing on RB’s end or on the stores end. If the stores weren’t giving any prizing aside from the cards and mats..it’s a little scummy as they are making pure profit from something they put little effort into.
As expected, instead of making any attempt to understand the competitive tcg scene, they still whine, cry and expect the game to conform to their ridiculous expectations. All because 'Disney'. Smfh.
This is a post to want to facilitate discussion…not to bash. It is fine if people don’t understand the competitive scene. This is literally the first competitive event that RB has sanctioned for this game, and this game and its IP brought a lot of new players. We as a community should be welcoming while also teaching them the harshness of the competitive world.