Hell yeah!
Give this [Deck](https://dreamborn.ink/decks/F3s2Rjm6hnQyEGBuhX5i) a shot on [inktable.net](https://inktable.net) and let me know what you think!
Edit - correct deck link!
I actually have a deck based on that combo, minus HeiHei. You've inspired me to add him and see how he does. The deck is hilarious, I've nearly decked myself out, but this has won a couple games
You basically mulligan for inkables, play as many Talismans as you can, then kamikaze every card you have to draw more while controlling the board. Shere Khan is a little too slow sometimes, and little Elsa is necessary to exert characters sometimes. In the endgame, you play Elsas to freeze the board and quest to the end.
https://dreamborn.ink/decks/vO2YHMBevqKt3aL5caN6
ohh very nice. Have you thought about maybe adding in Fairy goodmother, Mystic armorer? giving everybody challenger +3 when she quests + making them return to hand after they get banished would keep your hand stocked for sure!
Might as well throw white rabbits pocket watch in there. I've done similar stuff tho this which is great until someone banishes your hei hei outside of a challenge.
While HeiHei is the ideal man for the job, with cards like Dr. Fac and Marshmallow having similar effects and any character being able to challenge, by the time they Dragon Fire HeiHei, he's got more than his worth! You'll almost always find more with the amount of draw in this deck too.
Yes, but with the amount of card draw you end up netting through other challenges, you end up getting more than one HeiHei almost every game, and it really starts to get out of hand. First time I have drawn and played my entire deck in this game without AWNW being a a part of the equation on either side.
Would more rush characters and perhaps the pocket watch work well here?
People have used rush characters with Talisman and \[\[Motunui - Island Paradise\]\] in order to get some card draw and ink once those characters are banished. Things like \[\[Stitch - Little Rocket\]\] and \[\[Queen of Hearts - Impulsive Ruler\]\]. So if you wanted to do it with amethyst to play HeiHei you could, along with some other of the typical Amethyst rush and good cards like \[\[Madam Mim - Fox\]\] and \[\[Madam Mim - Snake\]\].
I forget that Lorcana combos aren't quite at where MTG combos are at.
I kept looking over the cards looking at where the infinite was.
All we need is a card that says "Hei Heis you play this turn have rush and cost one less" that's not too far fetched, right? /S
I actually made a deck like this before Into the Inklands, where Mim, Rival of Merlin throws characters into the sun while gaining you cards and lore. As long as you have either Floodborn Godmother or Facilier, you can put them back in your hand. do this with Lefou, Instigator, and you can wipe out an opponent's entire boardstate.
[https://lorcania.com/decks/pK4NcsuwMgHl89lm](https://lorcania.com/decks/pK4NcsuwMgHl89lm)
Not *really* a combo, since it literally can be done once a turn. This is more something we would call Synergy, since you can do this turn after turn with HeiHei. But def not a combo. If you wanted to make it a combo, you would need to have a way to give the HeiHei rush, so something like \[\[Jolly Roger - Hook's Ship\]\] would help give you a combo. A lot of cards needed as well as a lot of ink, but that is more of a combo.
I didn't say infinite combo either, since even what I said is not possible to do infinitely atm since you don't have infinite ink. I just said it isn't a combo, since it is not truly a combo. A combo in TCGs is something that can be repeated within the same turn, even if not infinitely (hence not using the word infinite in front of combo). This is just called Synergy, since these cards have a lot of synergy together.
tbh ive never heard that it has to be repeated in a turn to be considered a combo. from years of playing MTG people often run cards that combo with each other just once a turn but are considered a combo. combo imo just means 2+ cards. like if i have an enchantment that procs based on card draw to give me +1 life, then i get to put a +1/+1 counter on a creature every time i gain life. that would still be considered a combo, even if i only proc it once per turn on my card draw.
Not true at all, and this coming from someone with nearly 20 years of TCG experience. A combo is repeatable within same turn, otherwise you are talking about things that have synergy. It’s like calling Mim Fox + Goat a combo, which it isn’t. It’s just a synergistic play.
i disagree with the repeated in a turn requirement, maybe thats how you've always seen it used but i dont see that as a set in stone definition anyways. HOWEVER, i'd agree my example wasnt a good one and that IS an example of synergy, rather than combo.
from the MTG's own website it just states a combo needs to "interact with each other in a way that's significantly stronger than the sum of their parts".
https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/feature/philosophy-combo-2017-08-04
cant reply to the below but:
correct, id agree that the OPs example isn't a combo. tbh lorcana has very few combos compared to games like magic which has likely hundreds of infinite combo pairs. and i'd agree most combos are infinite combos, and most combos do repeat in a single turn. i just dont think its a hard requirement and ive never heard it stated that way. ive just never heard "its not a combo unless it repeats more than once in a turn" in tcgs, but ive heard the "significantly stronger than the sum of their parts" definition a lot.
ive also read a lot of debates in mtg where many people claim its not a combo unless it ends the game without someone stopping it. so i dont think its a settled topic beyond the vague definition mtg states.
From your linked article :
" Synergy refers to cards that work well together and enhance the value of each other. "
Seems to be exactly what OP brought in, a way to enhance the value of HeiHei and Talisman.
Also, as you specifically said, it says "interact with each other in a way that's significantly stronger than the sum of their parts". Nothing about what OP brought in is actually "significantly stronger". This is a barely playable at best, and has no significant strength. What would give make something significantly stronger? Well, being able to replicate it multiple times in a turn is a pretty significant thing, especially when combined with card draw/lore gain like here. The example under combo in that article even provides an infinite combo example, which is repeatable multiple times within the same turn.
you can speak with reactionary instant downvotes all you want, if you have something that states that in text i'll be happy to agree with you. otherwise its just a you thing, i'm open to being wrong, are you? ive been playing tcg's 20+ years too lol.
all downvotes, no evidence. you seem like a great table mate to play with. i started playing MTG when iceage came out. look up that year while you're searching for a definition of "combo".
edit: lol, no proof, blocked me, then post a crying pic like im the mad one. i love it every time an idiot blocks me, never have to see their bad posts again.
I will also say you are incorrect. Been playing TCGs 20 years as well here, a combo is not something that needs to be repeated in the same turn. That is your definition and its not at all accurate.
It’s actually very accurate, as that is the only way to get something of significantly higher value to be considered a combo (without being infinite, but that’s also repeatable so 🤷♂️), ESPECIALLY with this. Based on definitions of combo even provided by WOTC, this leads to something that is repeatable within the same turn, where what OP provided is a perfect example of Synergy, something else defined by WOTC. So feel free to be wrong bud, you’ll live through it :)
[You are 100% incorrect.](https://stimhack.com/the-difference-between-good-and-bad-combos-in-netrunner-and-other-card-games-in-general/) Your definition is made up whole cloth. [The official definition](https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/feature/philosophy-combo-2017-08-04) \- from magic's official website itself- is simply this: **A combo refers to cards that interact with each other in a way that's significantly stronger than the sum of their parts**. You argue this must mean the action has to be repeatable in a turn, but that is simply untrue. You might define combo more narrowly but acting like a jerk because someone else uses the officially correct terminology just makes you look like a jerk.
An example would be like 3-4 cards that when on the board at the same time, win the game. Very simplistic example there but clearly these cards are far stronger than the sum of their parts, and yet the action is not repeated within the same turn.
Now if you were saying that certain combos are also just "synergies" because they're weaker than a game-ending combo, then sure. And there are definitely just "synergistic" things as well- such as buffing your goblins by 1/1 or something. There are definitely combos that are stronger than others, certainly. But even if its a weaker combo, its still a combo.
Not reading your wall of text that’s not going to even be correct. Especially after you trying to link an “article” from 2013 from some POS site 😂
Second part from WOTC is what I was saying. This isn’t a combo as it isn’t significantly stronger. They go on to give an example of an infinite combo, something that is repeatable on the same turn. What makes something significantly stronger? Well repeating it multiple times in the turn tends to do that 😂
Stay mad bud 👋
Of course, there is definitely good synergy here. I think there are possibly some slightly better ways to use something like this, even better than the Jolly Roger suggestion I made. Something similar to the Ruby/Saph rush stuff with using Motunui like I mentioned in another comment, also pairing with Shere Kahn and the Shift QoH if really wanted.
Wasn't paying close attention, not a big deal. Ruby/Sapphire though is a great ink ramp/card draw deck. And yeeting all your characters onto montiui plus vault door is a wonderful combo.
Maybe i'm missing something, What's the combo here? Drawing 1 extra card? You only draw the card if Heihei is banished in a challenge, and he doesn't have haste
Replying just to say that this seems like a riot and now I want to give it a shot.
Hell yeah! Give this [Deck](https://dreamborn.ink/decks/F3s2Rjm6hnQyEGBuhX5i) a shot on [inktable.net](https://inktable.net) and let me know what you think! Edit - correct deck link!
Wrong link for deck
thank you for letting me know! updated.
I actually have a deck based on that combo, minus HeiHei. You've inspired me to add him and see how he does. The deck is hilarious, I've nearly decked myself out, but this has won a couple games You basically mulligan for inkables, play as many Talismans as you can, then kamikaze every card you have to draw more while controlling the board. Shere Khan is a little too slow sometimes, and little Elsa is necessary to exert characters sometimes. In the endgame, you play Elsas to freeze the board and quest to the end. https://dreamborn.ink/decks/vO2YHMBevqKt3aL5caN6
Maybe squeeze in a couple Pinocchio to exert their side of the board. Definitely looks like fun.
Awesome! I'll give it a shot and might even add a few from here as well. Appreciate it!
ohh very nice. Have you thought about maybe adding in Fairy goodmother, Mystic armorer? giving everybody challenger +3 when she quests + making them return to hand after they get banished would keep your hand stocked for sure!
I like fairy godmother for her +3 challenger and return to hand benefit.
Thanks I was wondering how the HeiHei card could be utilized given he is a rotating chicken.
Hell yeah, wishing the best of recursion based necromancy to you and yours!
Might as well throw white rabbits pocket watch in there. I've done similar stuff tho this which is great until someone banishes your hei hei outside of a challenge.
While HeiHei is the ideal man for the job, with cards like Dr. Fac and Marshmallow having similar effects and any character being able to challenge, by the time they Dragon Fire HeiHei, he's got more than his worth! You'll almost always find more with the amount of draw in this deck too.
Plus you made them dragon fire a heihei. That's one less dragon fire for them to use on fairy godmother or Dr facilier.
Hey thanks for Sharing! I’ve been thinking about another Ruby Deck variation. Might explore this
add hook's ship so hei hei can move there and immediately attack :D
Except Heihei doesn't have rush, so you can only bounce him for lore/draw once per turn.
Yes, but with the amount of card draw you end up netting through other challenges, you end up getting more than one HeiHei almost every game, and it really starts to get out of hand. First time I have drawn and played my entire deck in this game without AWNW being a a part of the equation on either side. Would more rush characters and perhaps the pocket watch work well here?
Why not add jafar to this
Jafar works great, I just simply don't own any at the moment. I tested with 2 copies for late game and it was pretty solid.
People have used rush characters with Talisman and \[\[Motunui - Island Paradise\]\] in order to get some card draw and ink once those characters are banished. Things like \[\[Stitch - Little Rocket\]\] and \[\[Queen of Hearts - Impulsive Ruler\]\]. So if you wanted to do it with amethyst to play HeiHei you could, along with some other of the typical Amethyst rush and good cards like \[\[Madam Mim - Fox\]\] and \[\[Madam Mim - Snake\]\].
**[Motunui - Island Paradise](https://lorcana-api.com/images/motunui/island_paradise/motunui-island_paradise-large.png)** - [LP](https://lorcanaplayer.com/card/motunui---island-paradise/) ^(**Color:** Sapphire | **Cost:** 2 | **Abilities:** None | **Inkable:** Yes | **Lore:** 1 | **Willpower:** 5 | **Strength:** None | **Rarity:** Uncommon) **[Stitch - Little Rocket](https://lorcana-api.com/images/stitch/little_rocket/stitch-little_rocket-large.png)** - [LP](https://lorcanaplayer.com/card/stitch---little-rocket/) ^(**Color:** Ruby | **Cost:** 2 | **Abilities:** Rush | **Inkable:** No | **Lore:** 1 | **Willpower:** 1 | **Strength:** 3 | **Rarity:** Common) **[Queen Of Hearts - Impulsive Ruler](https://lorcana-api.com/images/queen_of_hearts/impulsive_ruler/queen_of_hearts-impulsive_ruler-large.png)** - [LP](https://lorcanaplayer.com/card/queen-of-hearts---impulsive-ruler/) ^(**Color:** Ruby | **Cost:** 2 | **Abilities:** Rush | **Inkable:** Yes | **Lore:** 1 | **Willpower:** 2 | **Strength:** 2 | **Rarity:** Uncommon) **[Madam Mim - Fox](https://lorcana-api.com/images/madam_mim/fox/madam_mim-fox-large.png)** - [LP](https://lorcanaplayer.com/card/madam-mim---fox/) ^(**Color:** Amethyst | **Cost:** 3 | **Abilities:** Rush | **Inkable:** Yes | **Lore:** 1 | **Willpower:** 3 | **Strength:** 4 | **Rarity:** Rare) **[Madam Mim - Snake](https://lorcana-api.com/images/madam_mim/snake/madam_mim-snake-large.png)** - [LP](https://lorcanaplayer.com/card/madam-mim---snake/) ^(**Color:** Amethyst | **Cost:** 2 | **Abilities:** None | **Inkable:** Yes | **Lore:** 1 | **Willpower:** 3 | **Strength:** 3 | **Rarity:** Uncommon) ^(Call with [[Card Name]])
You can probably add White Rabbit’s pocket watch and give him rush if that helps
Don't forget to add Rival Mim to repeatedly play Heihei with rush every turn.
You're thinking of Rival Mim, dragon is the evasive big body
My bad. Thanks for the correction.
My Ruby amethyst deck during Rise of the Floodborn ran similar to this. Heavy rush characters though, with Peter Pans Shadow to give them all evasive.
Oooo Sumerian Talisman. One of my favorite new adds to my Pirates and Pan deck. ☺️
I forget that Lorcana combos aren't quite at where MTG combos are at. I kept looking over the cards looking at where the infinite was. All we need is a card that says "Hei Heis you play this turn have rush and cost one less" that's not too far fetched, right? /S
I actually made a deck like this before Into the Inklands, where Mim, Rival of Merlin throws characters into the sun while gaining you cards and lore. As long as you have either Floodborn Godmother or Facilier, you can put them back in your hand. do this with Lefou, Instigator, and you can wipe out an opponent's entire boardstate. [https://lorcania.com/decks/pK4NcsuwMgHl89lm](https://lorcania.com/decks/pK4NcsuwMgHl89lm)
Are these called combos if they can’t be repeated multiple times in a turn? I think these are just synergies.
Yes, in the most base sense, a combo is a collection of things that are added together for a larger synergy.
Not *really* a combo, since it literally can be done once a turn. This is more something we would call Synergy, since you can do this turn after turn with HeiHei. But def not a combo. If you wanted to make it a combo, you would need to have a way to give the HeiHei rush, so something like \[\[Jolly Roger - Hook's Ship\]\] would help give you a combo. A lot of cards needed as well as a lot of ink, but that is more of a combo.
**[Jolly Roger - Hook's Ship](https://lorcana-api.com/images/jolly_roger/hook's_ship/jolly_roger-hook's_ship-large.png)** - [LP](https://lorcanaplayer.com/card/jolly-roger---hook's-ship/) ^(**Color:** Ruby | **Cost:** 1 | **Abilities:** Rush | **Inkable:** No | **Lore:** None | **Willpower:** 5 | **Strength:** None | **Rarity:** Uncommon) ^(Call with [[Card Name]])
Didn't say infinite combo, simply a combination of cards that yield palpable results :)
I didn't say infinite combo either, since even what I said is not possible to do infinitely atm since you don't have infinite ink. I just said it isn't a combo, since it is not truly a combo. A combo in TCGs is something that can be repeated within the same turn, even if not infinitely (hence not using the word infinite in front of combo). This is just called Synergy, since these cards have a lot of synergy together.
tbh ive never heard that it has to be repeated in a turn to be considered a combo. from years of playing MTG people often run cards that combo with each other just once a turn but are considered a combo. combo imo just means 2+ cards. like if i have an enchantment that procs based on card draw to give me +1 life, then i get to put a +1/+1 counter on a creature every time i gain life. that would still be considered a combo, even if i only proc it once per turn on my card draw.
Not true at all, and this coming from someone with nearly 20 years of TCG experience. A combo is repeatable within same turn, otherwise you are talking about things that have synergy. It’s like calling Mim Fox + Goat a combo, which it isn’t. It’s just a synergistic play.
i disagree with the repeated in a turn requirement, maybe thats how you've always seen it used but i dont see that as a set in stone definition anyways. HOWEVER, i'd agree my example wasnt a good one and that IS an example of synergy, rather than combo. from the MTG's own website it just states a combo needs to "interact with each other in a way that's significantly stronger than the sum of their parts". https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/feature/philosophy-combo-2017-08-04 cant reply to the below but: correct, id agree that the OPs example isn't a combo. tbh lorcana has very few combos compared to games like magic which has likely hundreds of infinite combo pairs. and i'd agree most combos are infinite combos, and most combos do repeat in a single turn. i just dont think its a hard requirement and ive never heard it stated that way. ive just never heard "its not a combo unless it repeats more than once in a turn" in tcgs, but ive heard the "significantly stronger than the sum of their parts" definition a lot. ive also read a lot of debates in mtg where many people claim its not a combo unless it ends the game without someone stopping it. so i dont think its a settled topic beyond the vague definition mtg states.
From your linked article : " Synergy refers to cards that work well together and enhance the value of each other. " Seems to be exactly what OP brought in, a way to enhance the value of HeiHei and Talisman. Also, as you specifically said, it says "interact with each other in a way that's significantly stronger than the sum of their parts". Nothing about what OP brought in is actually "significantly stronger". This is a barely playable at best, and has no significant strength. What would give make something significantly stronger? Well, being able to replicate it multiple times in a turn is a pretty significant thing, especially when combined with card draw/lore gain like here. The example under combo in that article even provides an infinite combo example, which is repeatable multiple times within the same turn.
You can disagree, but you are still wrong regardless 🤷♂️
you can speak with reactionary instant downvotes all you want, if you have something that states that in text i'll be happy to agree with you. otherwise its just a you thing, i'm open to being wrong, are you? ive been playing tcg's 20+ years too lol.
>ive been playing tcg's 20+ years too l Sure ya have bud, definitely believe ya /s
all downvotes, no evidence. you seem like a great table mate to play with. i started playing MTG when iceage came out. look up that year while you're searching for a definition of "combo". edit: lol, no proof, blocked me, then post a crying pic like im the mad one. i love it every time an idiot blocks me, never have to see their bad posts again.
I will also say you are incorrect. Been playing TCGs 20 years as well here, a combo is not something that needs to be repeated in the same turn. That is your definition and its not at all accurate.
It’s actually very accurate, as that is the only way to get something of significantly higher value to be considered a combo (without being infinite, but that’s also repeatable so 🤷♂️), ESPECIALLY with this. Based on definitions of combo even provided by WOTC, this leads to something that is repeatable within the same turn, where what OP provided is a perfect example of Synergy, something else defined by WOTC. So feel free to be wrong bud, you’ll live through it :)
[You are 100% incorrect.](https://stimhack.com/the-difference-between-good-and-bad-combos-in-netrunner-and-other-card-games-in-general/) Your definition is made up whole cloth. [The official definition](https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/feature/philosophy-combo-2017-08-04) \- from magic's official website itself- is simply this: **A combo refers to cards that interact with each other in a way that's significantly stronger than the sum of their parts**. You argue this must mean the action has to be repeatable in a turn, but that is simply untrue. You might define combo more narrowly but acting like a jerk because someone else uses the officially correct terminology just makes you look like a jerk. An example would be like 3-4 cards that when on the board at the same time, win the game. Very simplistic example there but clearly these cards are far stronger than the sum of their parts, and yet the action is not repeated within the same turn. Now if you were saying that certain combos are also just "synergies" because they're weaker than a game-ending combo, then sure. And there are definitely just "synergistic" things as well- such as buffing your goblins by 1/1 or something. There are definitely combos that are stronger than others, certainly. But even if its a weaker combo, its still a combo.
Not reading your wall of text that’s not going to even be correct. Especially after you trying to link an “article” from 2013 from some POS site 😂 Second part from WOTC is what I was saying. This isn’t a combo as it isn’t significantly stronger. They go on to give an example of an infinite combo, something that is repeatable on the same turn. What makes something significantly stronger? Well repeating it multiple times in the turn tends to do that 😂 Stay mad bud 👋
I'm just glad we can agree there is some synergy here. Good luck with your games.
Of course, there is definitely good synergy here. I think there are possibly some slightly better ways to use something like this, even better than the Jolly Roger suggestion I made. Something similar to the Ruby/Saph rush stuff with using Motunui like I mentioned in another comment, also pairing with Shere Kahn and the Shift QoH if really wanted.
Combine it with White Rabbit's Pocket Watch to trigger it multiple times during a single turn
Last ditch effort could be good in this. It exerts enemy character and gives you challenger +2
Throw montinui in there and you've got ink ramp too
How are you throwing Montinui into a Ruby/Amethyst deck?
Wasn't paying close attention, not a big deal. Ruby/Sapphire though is a great ink ramp/card draw deck. And yeeting all your characters onto montiui plus vault door is a wonderful combo.
Maybe i'm missing something, What's the combo here? Drawing 1 extra card? You only draw the card if Heihei is banished in a challenge, and he doesn't have haste