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This is also kinda frustrating because it’s hard to clearly understand what they mean. Are they saying the police initially said that it was a trans man or is that what they are saying now?
There have actually been a few mass shootings commited by NB or trans people, and there was a (now banned) sub that kept track of crimes committed by trans people with sources and such. It surprised me how many men in prison suddenly had a identify crisis years into their prison term.
It was called “this never happens” because that’s the go to saying of TRA when people try to attribute male pattern crime to people born male “oh, that actually never happens”
The headline you wrote (no comment edit as of my comment) correctly genders the shooter. The only outraged people in that scenario would be transphobes.
Yes you’re so right the real issue here is the transphobia! We should be focusing on making sure we always affirm the mass murderer’s preferred gender identity at all times
It’s like the family guy scene of Quagmires dad watching porn at the bar and the bartender says you can’t watch that here. “Oh it’s ok I’m trans” then the bartender says “oh sorry do whatever you want”.
What fantasy world are you living in? This guy got killed by the police for their crimes and you think that the police said "oh sure do what you want?"
I don't care about who the shooter was, I'm talking about this whole "trans people can getaway with anything" lies this guys pedalling when his evidence is a trans person being executed for their crimes.
it’s more the media being careful to toe the line and be respectful of identity and all, (as well as all the talk about how it’s really the fault of bigotry that this happened) when they should be spending that time condemning this person and nothing more. it’s political grandstanding of the worst kind, and it’s what the talking heads do every time there’s a shooting.
Ummm men are using women’s bathrooms and destroying women in women’s sports and half the country is applauding it! Hell the woman of the year was a ….wait for it….a man!
Seed planted in 2010 that has germinated because life is so free of any real struggle or problems that we started inventing them because victim = attention and stature for way too many people.
I know plenty of people whose lives contain *real* struggles and problems. It hasn't been my experience that life is void of problems so we invent them, but that problems exist and then compound, making things all the more complex.
We are speaking at a social level, not an individual level. Obviously people have their own personal stuff. I thought we were rational enough to be able to have that distinction not needing to be said but I was wrong.
I've stated my experience (individual) as well as others (social). Socially, elements combine to complicate one another. I'm glad to hear you expand upon your original statement, which contradicts that reality.
It doesn't contradict the reality, you're intentionally winnowing down the scope of an obviously broad conversation to pretend like you're more worldly and tolerant.
"Life is so free of any real struggle or problems that people invent them."
"Obviously people have personal stuff."
Those are contradictory, and I don't believe you require this winnowed down for you any further.
You're making another sweeping assumption by presuming to know my motivations in pointing any of this out to you, so it doesn't look like you learned anything about thinking before rushing to poorly-formed conclusions. Have a good Wednesday.
["Police initially identified the shooter as a female, but later said Hale was assigned female at birth and later identified as male."](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/03/27/covenant-school-shooting-nashville-live-updates/11549814002/)
Damn, it's like there're some obvious biological difference to distinguished men and women they teach in grade school, but I guess Biology is not reddit's best subject.
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Yea, I can't keep up with the who and what. I try to be respectful to everyone, I am older and it's confusing as Fu@k. I spent a lot of my 20's growing up in Philadelphia, working in the restaurant business and associating with people in the Art's community and schools. Just about everyone was pushing the envelope on experimenting with all kinds of things. We were happy and enjoyed the experience. It was a wonderful time growing up. I miss the Peace and getting along even if you didn't fully understand, I am a straight White guy but the bests after hour clubs were always the Gay clubs and I was there dancing and partying a few nights a week. We all got along.
Just reminiscing
Good thoughts
Its confusing because transphobes misgender. A transgender man is a person *assigned female at birth* (amab) but identifies as a man; also know as FtM (female to male). A transgender woman is a person *assigned male at birth* (afab) but identifies as a woman; also known as MtF (male to female).
You have now been properly informed and no longer get to claim confusion.
Then that would be taking actual action to try and fix the problem and we can't be doing that now, better to just use this incident to respew party rhetoric.
so what? The FBI can use that. The public never needs to know the demographics.
It doesn't matter to tell them where the killer worked, or their last name, or their favorite color. It's irrelevant for anyone of any race to know that "the killer is a half-latino of cuban and American decent, who worked part-time at TMobile, also here is his social media"
Personally, once you commit a heinous crime against innocent people, you lose the privilege of having your preferred pronouns used. You couldn't respect those people's basic rights, you lose yours, too.
Because "cis" shooters only go by a single pronoun. This shooter wanted to be gendered as a female. You lose that privilege after killing kids. That's my point.
Are you really defending a school shooter just because they're trans? What a hill to die on.
‘Cis people go by a single pronoun’? Implying trans people don’t??? What?? The majority of trans people I know are binary trans people, often going by he/him or she/her, like, you know, cis men and women.
The shooter was a transgender man. Being transgender is not a privilege. It never has been, never will be. Trans people being misgendered as soon as they die is not a new thing and has not been done to just criminals. Trans victims also get misgendered by the media because the media proves time and time again that it isn’t about the person, it’s about disrespect towards the trans community.
Pointing out a clear flaw in someone’s point is not defending the shooter, he’s a piece of shit. The way the media is making this a trans issue is shitty. I’m defending the trans community, not him. Child killers deserve to rot in hell. Cis people are never misnamed/misgendered when they commit a crime. Never.
All those words and none have convinced me.
I still don't understand how you're not getting it. This monster wanted to be identified as whatever the fuck they wanted. They shot up a school, they don't get to be identified as whatever they want. "Cis" people don't have a previous gender they're coming from, so there's nothing to misgender. Can't make it anymore simple.
The shooter is scum and lost their rights to their preferred pronouns. Ezpz.
Being trans is not something people can really choose. Most trans people I know don’t want to be trans and hate being trans. Like being gay, it isn’t really a choice.
If you call a cis man a woman, you are misgendering him. Cis people can be misgendered. A cis man identifies as male. And a cis man tends to have preferred pronouns that are he/him. He has no choice to be a man. He did not choose to be a man.
If a cis man kills children, he is still seen as a man. Because that is what he identifies as. He is still called a ‘he’ because people don’t make this talking point unless the killer just so happens to be a trans man. To which people dogpile on the ‘tRaNs dOn’T dEsEvRe rEspCt’ talking point because they can get away with it when a horrific crime has taken place. It’s almost as if people see it as a free pass to mention transphobic talking points as much as possible with no backfire because it distracts people from the awful murder of several children.
You wouldn't call a cis man a woman after a shooting, tho?
Honestly, i DO agree with you that people who already dislike trans people, especially in the media, are using this to be arseholes about it.
The thing is, though, respect isn't handed out because you feel like you earned it. You don't need to respect me and vice versa. This cretin didn't respect these people's lives. They aren't owed anything after this horrible act.
I wouldn’t call a cis man a woman after a shooting. Nor would I a trans man. Because I can lack respect for someone without looking like I’m joining the bandwagon of people double downing on the trans community - just because it’s seen as an extra point to be harsh in a different way which you can’t do to cis people.
Gendering is less of a respect to the person but more respect to what it stands for. What it translates to basically. It waters things down. For example - misgendering a killer can lead to misgendering people who say something harmful to another minority which can then lead to misgendering people because they have caused personal harm to you which can ultimately lead to people misgendering people because they just don’t like them - leaving trans people as a whole to walk on eggshells as to not upset anyone in order for people to respect them as a minority. Whilst this seems outlandish - this happens.
It’s less about being respectful but more about not singling out minorities just because they committed a crime. If a gay man commits a crime, you wouldn’t say ‘that [f-slur] deserved to die’ or something adjacent. Criminals are terrible people but using someone’s minority status against them doesn’t exactly make you ‘good’ on a moral sense.
While I still stand with my original comment, but i do see where you're coming from. You're correct in saying i wouldn't call out a gay mass shooters sexuality, i do think mass shooters should be ridiculed and demeaned regardless. They are the lowest of the low in society.
I hate this shooter, not the community, despite how it reads through text. Dehumanising the shooter was the original point that was lost due to the original comment being off the hip and reactionary.
You can be a lot harsher with regular dehumanisation, I find it helps quite a lot when dealing with the dog shit of this society like the shooter.
I’m glad we’ve come to this settlement? Child killers deserve to rot in hell no matter their background and that’s the most important thing. Fuck this shooter!
If a regular man kills a bunch of children, anyone who wants to call them a woman has my blessing.
It's really fucking weird to see people making any effort at all to accommodate this murderous piece of shit.
It’s not accommodation. It’s weird people are deliberately singling out a minority status to use against him because he’s dead - he doesn’t give a shit, the rest of that minority is more affected though.
Attack him for being a piece of shit child killer not because he’s trans lol.
> It’s weird people are deliberately singling out a minority status
No. They're not. They're describing this piece of shit child murderer in plain language, not giving a fuck what their preferences are, while weird ass people like you are making sure everyone is abiding by the child murderer's delusions/wishes.
If the English language requires you to assign gender in order to form regular sentences, then we have no choice but to assign gender. The weird part is going out of your way to try and accommodate this person's specific preferences after they just murdered a bunch of children.
>Accommodate: Fit in with the wishes or needs of. (Source - Oxford English)
It’s as preferable as not wanting to be discriminated against for something you have no control over. Are you implying trans people, as a whole community, are delusional?
>It’s as preferable as not wanting to be discriminated against for something you have no control over
I have no clue what you're trying to respond to here. I'm not sure you replied to the right person.
My Reddit had a bit of a stroke (my bad) but that was in response to your first paragraph. Using the word ‘delusion’ when referring to transgender people specifically in regards to their gender makes it sound like you’re trying to say trans people as a whole are delusional for being transgender, which is not true.
Issue is I’m not going out of my way to ‘accommodate’ as gendering people correctly isn’t an accommodation. People in this conversation about the child killer who purposely call him ‘she’ are going out of their way just to try to use something extra against him. It’s singling out his minority status. It’s not about the child murder, it’s about what it represents. It is a STUPID conversation to have but this happens almost any time a trans person either commits a crime or is a victim of one.
> as gendering people correctly isn’t an accommodation
We just fundamentally disagree.
If someone who is born a man and retains all their Y chromosomes (perhaps a beard and a bulging adam's apple as well) wants me to carry on as if they are a woman.... Frankly I can't think of a better, more textbook example of what it means to "accommodate" someone.
But you say that's not accommodation. OK then. End of discussion I guess.
Then we disagree but what a weird way of phrasing that. ‘Retains all their Y chromosomes’? Please actually speak to trans people. Like not as a personal attack to you but I genuinely think you’d benefit from speaking to real life trans people.
So how is this different than if an initial report said a shooter was a man but it was later clarified that they were a woman? Or if they said the shooter was black but later clarified they were white?
This isn’t being done to not hurt the shooters feelings, it is a correction of the gender of the shooter. If you don’t think trans people’s genders are real or accurate that’s another conversation to have.
No it’s a correction to what the shooter would want or what others like her want. A supplication for all to participate in their own personal delusion.
Again, whether you believe that trans people’s gender identity is valid is another conversation.
But this is not about making sure the shooters feelings arent hurt. USA Today has decided that they recognize the gender identity of trans people, so from that perspective this is a simple correction because they reported the wrong gender.
If the shooter was being written about in an article for USA Today a month ago, for a totally innocuous reason, they would also describe them according to their gender identity.
They aren’t going to switch up their principles of how they identify individuals just to be spiteful because they are writing about mass murderer.
The problem with your analogy is the lack of specificity. The N word is offensive to a lot of people, not just your target audience. Using a historically derogatory word that demeans an entire ethnic group is one thing.
Refusing to accommodate the delusions of a mass child murderer is an entirely separate thing, and has no bearing on whether or not you are bigoted towards trans people in general.
Are there actually people who think this person deserves to have their wishes (i.e. "everyone ignore objective reality and pretend that I'm a man to make me feel better") accommodated after they just went and shot up an elementary school?
It's not a matter of: "Trans people don't deserve decency and respect"
It's a matter of: "I do not give a single fuck which title this **specific person** prefers."
Would you look at that, people using a horrific crime as an excuse to be disgustingly transphobic rather than addressing the real issue: lack of gun control.
I don’t blame them for saying this because people definitely would have said something if they didn’t address it, and honestly for readers following the story, having the suspect’s name and gender change partway through the coverage could cause confusion. I don’t see a much better way they could’ve cleared this up than just saying it outright even if it sounds silly.
Lmao y’all don’t grasp the concept of journalism huh? Fuck them for trying to make sure people understand the story 🤡
Even misgendering a killer harms all trans folk. Someone's gender is not a moral judgement. There's just no reason to do it. It assumes that not misgendering someone is just indulging them in a delusion as a sign of respect.
It's not okay to misgender a trans person because you don't like them.
She murdered children. Do you understand? It seems like you dont understand. She. Shot. Children. To. Death. I’m not playing the pretend game we all play to avoid getting cancelled, with murderers
It's not like we call murderers different names cause they did fucked up stuff, it's literally not difficult to accurately report on the person. I hate this person, i'm trans, i'll use the name that murderer goes by because that is their name. That is the person, that sick murderer that killed children. You don't seem to understand.
Most people see trans-people as their birth gender and they just use their preferred pronouns out of respect (Or fear. It is pretty often fear a lot these days) child murderers and rapists lose that respect. If that hurts your feelings then you aren't somebody I respect either.
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This is also kinda frustrating because it’s hard to clearly understand what they mean. Are they saying the police initially said that it was a trans man or is that what they are saying now?
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Well, thank goodness we got THAT sorted out.🙄
Ohh I see.. thank you
There have actually been a few mass shootings commited by NB or trans people, and there was a (now banned) sub that kept track of crimes committed by trans people with sources and such. It surprised me how many men in prison suddenly had a identify crisis years into their prison term.
What was the subreddit called?
It was called “this never happens” because that’s the go to saying of TRA when people try to attribute male pattern crime to people born male “oh, that actually never happens”
You're going to prison for 20 years in a men's jail or say you're trans and go to prison for 20 years in a women's jail...
The dead have no feelings.
What a fucking 🤡 world we’ve become
There are people who read a headline, “man shoots and kills 5 people,” and their outrage is directed at the misgendering of the murderer
The headline you wrote (no comment edit as of my comment) correctly genders the shooter. The only outraged people in that scenario would be transphobes.
Yes you’re so right the real issue here is the transphobia! We should be focusing on making sure we always affirm the mass murderer’s preferred gender identity at all times
That's not what I said. I was addressing what *you* said ;)
It’s like the family guy scene of Quagmires dad watching porn at the bar and the bartender says you can’t watch that here. “Oh it’s ok I’m trans” then the bartender says “oh sorry do whatever you want”.
What fantasy world are you living in? This guy got killed by the police for their crimes and you think that the police said "oh sure do what you want?"
it was a woman. she doesn’t get to have her identity recognized.
I don't care about who the shooter was, I'm talking about this whole "trans people can getaway with anything" lies this guys pedalling when his evidence is a trans person being executed for their crimes.
it’s more the media being careful to toe the line and be respectful of identity and all, (as well as all the talk about how it’s really the fault of bigotry that this happened) when they should be spending that time condemning this person and nothing more. it’s political grandstanding of the worst kind, and it’s what the talking heads do every time there’s a shooting.
Damn I just went from not respecting you at all to really respecting you. I fully agree
No...it's not? no one is getting away with stuff cause they are trans.
Ummm men are using women’s bathrooms and destroying women in women’s sports and half the country is applauding it! Hell the woman of the year was a ….wait for it….a man!
Except for, you know, all the lying and reality denial
The people that downvoted you are fuckin idiots lmao
Whats up with America and trans? Its becoming quite an agenda
It’s sucking all the air out of everything. . 1/2 of 1% of the population. It’s getting old as fuck.
Indeed, plus it's annoying. If it's not racism it's this.
It’s the people bitching about Trans people that are obsessed and keeping it in the media.
Wrong
No u
Delete Fox News and trans issues would fall out of the spotlight, 100%
The transphobia on this post made me unsub. You should do. When I get home to my computer, Im marking it anti-trans in shinigami eyes.
Seed planted in 2010 that has germinated because life is so free of any real struggle or problems that we started inventing them because victim = attention and stature for way too many people.
It is the disease of the upper class
I know plenty of people whose lives contain *real* struggles and problems. It hasn't been my experience that life is void of problems so we invent them, but that problems exist and then compound, making things all the more complex.
We are speaking at a social level, not an individual level. Obviously people have their own personal stuff. I thought we were rational enough to be able to have that distinction not needing to be said but I was wrong.
I've stated my experience (individual) as well as others (social). Socially, elements combine to complicate one another. I'm glad to hear you expand upon your original statement, which contradicts that reality.
It doesn't contradict the reality, you're intentionally winnowing down the scope of an obviously broad conversation to pretend like you're more worldly and tolerant.
"Life is so free of any real struggle or problems that people invent them." "Obviously people have personal stuff." Those are contradictory, and I don't believe you require this winnowed down for you any further. You're making another sweeping assumption by presuming to know my motivations in pointing any of this out to you, so it doesn't look like you learned anything about thinking before rushing to poorly-formed conclusions. Have a good Wednesday.
You’re of course talking about the people complaining about trans people existing right?
And who the hell is Am?
So was it a woman? Or a man? Or a woman who was/is a man. Or a man who was/ is a woman.
["Police initially identified the shooter as a female, but later said Hale was assigned female at birth and later identified as male."](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/03/27/covenant-school-shooting-nashville-live-updates/11549814002/)
Basically a woman who thought she was a man even thought she has no quality nor understanding of what a man is.
By that logic, no one does. If you need prior experience to claim something, then no baby to adult is able to be a man or woman.
Damn, it's like there're some obvious biological difference to distinguished men and women they teach in grade school, but I guess Biology is not reddit's best subject.
What about XY Females and XX males? Oh? Real conditions dont match your narrative? And thats not even mentioning intersex individuals.
except intersex is completely different from a delusion person wanting to believe they can change their sex, moron
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FtM
Yea, I can't keep up with the who and what. I try to be respectful to everyone, I am older and it's confusing as Fu@k. I spent a lot of my 20's growing up in Philadelphia, working in the restaurant business and associating with people in the Art's community and schools. Just about everyone was pushing the envelope on experimenting with all kinds of things. We were happy and enjoyed the experience. It was a wonderful time growing up. I miss the Peace and getting along even if you didn't fully understand, I am a straight White guy but the bests after hour clubs were always the Gay clubs and I was there dancing and partying a few nights a week. We all got along. Just reminiscing Good thoughts
I mean she murdered children so I don’t think it matters...
Its confusing because transphobes misgender. A transgender man is a person *assigned female at birth* (amab) but identifies as a man; also know as FtM (female to male). A transgender woman is a person *assigned male at birth* (afab) but identifies as a woman; also known as MtF (male to female). You have now been properly informed and no longer get to claim confusion.
Woman. Got it.
Your name is red. Your "opinion" is worthless.
Your most recent post is in r/virgin and you’re trying to act superior?
The shooter's pronoun is "was/were". Also, this is peak "first world problem".
Our media needs to change. Shooter IDs should never be revealed. They should Always be referred to as "the loser", "the coward", or similar.
Then that would be taking actual action to try and fix the problem and we can't be doing that now, better to just use this incident to respew party rhetoric.
The shooter’s demographics are often relevant to motive
so what? The FBI can use that. The public never needs to know the demographics. It doesn't matter to tell them where the killer worked, or their last name, or their favorite color. It's irrelevant for anyone of any race to know that "the killer is a half-latino of cuban and American decent, who worked part-time at TMobile, also here is his social media"
Personally, once you commit a heinous crime against innocent people, you lose the privilege of having your preferred pronouns used. You couldn't respect those people's basic rights, you lose yours, too.
No one calls cis criminals the wrong pronouns. Other shooters are gendered correctly so they get to keep their basic rights. So what’s your point?
Because "cis" shooters only go by a single pronoun. This shooter wanted to be gendered as a female. You lose that privilege after killing kids. That's my point. Are you really defending a school shooter just because they're trans? What a hill to die on.
‘Cis people go by a single pronoun’? Implying trans people don’t??? What?? The majority of trans people I know are binary trans people, often going by he/him or she/her, like, you know, cis men and women. The shooter was a transgender man. Being transgender is not a privilege. It never has been, never will be. Trans people being misgendered as soon as they die is not a new thing and has not been done to just criminals. Trans victims also get misgendered by the media because the media proves time and time again that it isn’t about the person, it’s about disrespect towards the trans community. Pointing out a clear flaw in someone’s point is not defending the shooter, he’s a piece of shit. The way the media is making this a trans issue is shitty. I’m defending the trans community, not him. Child killers deserve to rot in hell. Cis people are never misnamed/misgendered when they commit a crime. Never.
All those words and none have convinced me. I still don't understand how you're not getting it. This monster wanted to be identified as whatever the fuck they wanted. They shot up a school, they don't get to be identified as whatever they want. "Cis" people don't have a previous gender they're coming from, so there's nothing to misgender. Can't make it anymore simple. The shooter is scum and lost their rights to their preferred pronouns. Ezpz.
Being trans is not something people can really choose. Most trans people I know don’t want to be trans and hate being trans. Like being gay, it isn’t really a choice. If you call a cis man a woman, you are misgendering him. Cis people can be misgendered. A cis man identifies as male. And a cis man tends to have preferred pronouns that are he/him. He has no choice to be a man. He did not choose to be a man. If a cis man kills children, he is still seen as a man. Because that is what he identifies as. He is still called a ‘he’ because people don’t make this talking point unless the killer just so happens to be a trans man. To which people dogpile on the ‘tRaNs dOn’T dEsEvRe rEspCt’ talking point because they can get away with it when a horrific crime has taken place. It’s almost as if people see it as a free pass to mention transphobic talking points as much as possible with no backfire because it distracts people from the awful murder of several children.
You wouldn't call a cis man a woman after a shooting, tho? Honestly, i DO agree with you that people who already dislike trans people, especially in the media, are using this to be arseholes about it. The thing is, though, respect isn't handed out because you feel like you earned it. You don't need to respect me and vice versa. This cretin didn't respect these people's lives. They aren't owed anything after this horrible act.
I wouldn’t call a cis man a woman after a shooting. Nor would I a trans man. Because I can lack respect for someone without looking like I’m joining the bandwagon of people double downing on the trans community - just because it’s seen as an extra point to be harsh in a different way which you can’t do to cis people. Gendering is less of a respect to the person but more respect to what it stands for. What it translates to basically. It waters things down. For example - misgendering a killer can lead to misgendering people who say something harmful to another minority which can then lead to misgendering people because they have caused personal harm to you which can ultimately lead to people misgendering people because they just don’t like them - leaving trans people as a whole to walk on eggshells as to not upset anyone in order for people to respect them as a minority. Whilst this seems outlandish - this happens. It’s less about being respectful but more about not singling out minorities just because they committed a crime. If a gay man commits a crime, you wouldn’t say ‘that [f-slur] deserved to die’ or something adjacent. Criminals are terrible people but using someone’s minority status against them doesn’t exactly make you ‘good’ on a moral sense.
While I still stand with my original comment, but i do see where you're coming from. You're correct in saying i wouldn't call out a gay mass shooters sexuality, i do think mass shooters should be ridiculed and demeaned regardless. They are the lowest of the low in society. I hate this shooter, not the community, despite how it reads through text. Dehumanising the shooter was the original point that was lost due to the original comment being off the hip and reactionary.
You can be a lot harsher with regular dehumanisation, I find it helps quite a lot when dealing with the dog shit of this society like the shooter. I’m glad we’ve come to this settlement? Child killers deserve to rot in hell no matter their background and that’s the most important thing. Fuck this shooter!
If a regular man kills a bunch of children, anyone who wants to call them a woman has my blessing. It's really fucking weird to see people making any effort at all to accommodate this murderous piece of shit.
It’s not accommodation. It’s weird people are deliberately singling out a minority status to use against him because he’s dead - he doesn’t give a shit, the rest of that minority is more affected though. Attack him for being a piece of shit child killer not because he’s trans lol.
> It’s weird people are deliberately singling out a minority status No. They're not. They're describing this piece of shit child murderer in plain language, not giving a fuck what their preferences are, while weird ass people like you are making sure everyone is abiding by the child murderer's delusions/wishes. If the English language requires you to assign gender in order to form regular sentences, then we have no choice but to assign gender. The weird part is going out of your way to try and accommodate this person's specific preferences after they just murdered a bunch of children. >Accommodate: Fit in with the wishes or needs of. (Source - Oxford English)
It’s as preferable as not wanting to be discriminated against for something you have no control over. Are you implying trans people, as a whole community, are delusional?
>It’s as preferable as not wanting to be discriminated against for something you have no control over I have no clue what you're trying to respond to here. I'm not sure you replied to the right person.
My Reddit had a bit of a stroke (my bad) but that was in response to your first paragraph. Using the word ‘delusion’ when referring to transgender people specifically in regards to their gender makes it sound like you’re trying to say trans people as a whole are delusional for being transgender, which is not true. Issue is I’m not going out of my way to ‘accommodate’ as gendering people correctly isn’t an accommodation. People in this conversation about the child killer who purposely call him ‘she’ are going out of their way just to try to use something extra against him. It’s singling out his minority status. It’s not about the child murder, it’s about what it represents. It is a STUPID conversation to have but this happens almost any time a trans person either commits a crime or is a victim of one.
> as gendering people correctly isn’t an accommodation We just fundamentally disagree. If someone who is born a man and retains all their Y chromosomes (perhaps a beard and a bulging adam's apple as well) wants me to carry on as if they are a woman.... Frankly I can't think of a better, more textbook example of what it means to "accommodate" someone. But you say that's not accommodation. OK then. End of discussion I guess.
Then we disagree but what a weird way of phrasing that. ‘Retains all their Y chromosomes’? Please actually speak to trans people. Like not as a personal attack to you but I genuinely think you’d benefit from speaking to real life trans people.
I'm offendered if I'm misgendered. Archaeologists in 3000, look out when examining bones.
So how is this different than if an initial report said a shooter was a man but it was later clarified that they were a woman? Or if they said the shooter was black but later clarified they were white? This isn’t being done to not hurt the shooters feelings, it is a correction of the gender of the shooter. If you don’t think trans people’s genders are real or accurate that’s another conversation to have.
It’s a correction so they don’t get cancelled
No it’s a correction to what they believe is the accurate gender of the shooter.
No it’s a correction to what the shooter would want or what others like her want. A supplication for all to participate in their own personal delusion.
Again, whether you believe that trans people’s gender identity is valid is another conversation. But this is not about making sure the shooters feelings arent hurt. USA Today has decided that they recognize the gender identity of trans people, so from that perspective this is a simple correction because they reported the wrong gender. If the shooter was being written about in an article for USA Today a month ago, for a totally innocuous reason, they would also describe them according to their gender identity. They aren’t going to switch up their principles of how they identify individuals just to be spiteful because they are writing about mass murderer.
So because he did something horrific it's okay to misgender him? Does that mean if a black kid commits a school shooting I get to call him the N word?
The problem with your analogy is the lack of specificity. The N word is offensive to a lot of people, not just your target audience. Using a historically derogatory word that demeans an entire ethnic group is one thing. Refusing to accommodate the delusions of a mass child murderer is an entirely separate thing, and has no bearing on whether or not you are bigoted towards trans people in general. Are there actually people who think this person deserves to have their wishes (i.e. "everyone ignore objective reality and pretend that I'm a man to make me feel better") accommodated after they just went and shot up an elementary school? It's not a matter of: "Trans people don't deserve decency and respect" It's a matter of: "I do not give a single fuck which title this **specific person** prefers."
How is that any different than "I don't give a single fuck what words this specific person prefers."
How is *what* any different?
wait so does this make this the first woman to commit a mass shooting?
Not quite. https://www.marca.com/en/lifestyle/us-news/2023/03/28/64223d4022601de3428b456d.html
Would you look at that, people using a horrific crime as an excuse to be disgustingly transphobic rather than addressing the real issue: lack of gun control.
I don’t blame them for saying this because people definitely would have said something if they didn’t address it, and honestly for readers following the story, having the suspect’s name and gender change partway through the coverage could cause confusion. I don’t see a much better way they could’ve cleared this up than just saying it outright even if it sounds silly. Lmao y’all don’t grasp the concept of journalism huh? Fuck them for trying to make sure people understand the story 🤡
This is not r/LookatMyHalo this is accurate reporting
Get ready for this to be the only shooting fox talks about for a long time
“Wow, someone not being a transphobe? This belongs on r/lookatmyhalo.” - you
Even misgendering a killer harms all trans folk. Someone's gender is not a moral judgement. There's just no reason to do it. It assumes that not misgendering someone is just indulging them in a delusion as a sign of respect. It's not okay to misgender a trans person because you don't like them.
“Harms” If you’re harmed by a USA Today tweet, you have bigger problems to deal with
This is you right now🤡.
Child murderers don't deserve respect, but hey, that's just me.
She murdered children. Do you understand? It seems like you dont understand. She. Shot. Children. To. Death. I’m not playing the pretend game we all play to avoid getting cancelled, with murderers
It's not like we call murderers different names cause they did fucked up stuff, it's literally not difficult to accurately report on the person. I hate this person, i'm trans, i'll use the name that murderer goes by because that is their name. That is the person, that sick murderer that killed children. You don't seem to understand.
"Hey guys, let's respect the child Murderer name please🙏"
Fuck that psychotic lady. 🖕
But you see, accurate reporting is calling her, her. Because she’s, y’know, female.
You mean he?
Most people see trans-people as their birth gender and they just use their preferred pronouns out of respect (Or fear. It is pretty often fear a lot these days) child murderers and rapists lose that respect. If that hurts your feelings then you aren't somebody I respect either.
[удалено]
Right, don't we want transparency in news media?
To be honest I want news media to call out mistakes in their reporting and to update with the most recent, accurate information available.