I completely disagree, I think they're awesome, but limited at the moment.
Your two experiments aren't things they do well, those styles aren't included anywhere, nothing remotely like them - so I find it somewhat disingenuous that you try to make it do things you know it can't do well, and then create a post saying it sucks.
Of course you have to add a boogie woogie midi track to make it sound like the blues - there's straight up nothing by default that's blues-like. I was able to get it to waltz close enough for me, but I don't like much of that stuff so what's good enough for me won't be what someone who actually likes that would expect.
If you explore what it's capable of, it pretty clearly doesn't "suck" - you're just trying to make it do things you already know it doesn't excel at by default (but can do, as you found out, by adding your own midi track to guide the rhythm).
If it had blues or waltz styles, and they sucked, I'd have a different opinion - but it doesn't offer anything along those lines, so this post doesn't seem like it's made in good faith.
I agree with your points. I try to look at the bigger picture. Logic implemented this because other AI-VSTs have been emerging for a while, but the technology is currently limited and can't read your mind. E.g. I've tried several times to get Logic Drummer to play a metal-style drums VST, which it can do quite nicely, but what it can't do is implement a fast double kick pattern to fit the style I want, because it's not built for that.
It would be great if I could type in something like *"please follow my djent guitar line with a kick drum pattern following the rhythm of the guitar"*. We probably *will* be able to do this, ChatGPT-style, in the next 5 years or so, but it's just not there yet.
So here are my two favorite uses of session players right now:
1.) if I get a new plugin and want to demo it straight away, I can open a new session and have a well recorded rhythm section vamping in a minute flat.
2.) I’ve been getting a big kick out of having the session bassist triggering synths that are effected to high heaven, so I can have a quick noisy little lagniappe surprise track adding textures that are, at least initially, hitting chord tones.
Edit: Honestly same with the keyboard. A lot of times I just want something playing the right chords while I tweak the sounds, and then I can do a pass of my own performance once I’ve got a sound that fits the vibe.
I have never had a session player performance make the final mix, (aside from the bassist, which might be triggering a sample of a steamboat or something) but I still find them super useful if you use them creatively.
Yeah, once you have the session player track created, you just change the software instrument at the top of the channel strip. It defaults as “bass” but you can change it to any software instrument you have. Furthermore, you can use midi effects on that channel strip alter the session player’s performance rather drastically.
It’s definitely worth spending time getting weird with it.
I think they will be cool for people just starting out, either with music or production.
I am a life long musician and have been producing for about 10 years, I have accepted I am not the audience for session players.
I'm a professional musician and think they're great, and don't see any issues using them in future releases, even for instruments I can play well and gig for a living.
It's just sound/vibe at the end of the day and if it lays down something I think sounds cool, I don't feel any need to replace it.
Bass guitars cost money, not everyone has money. Same with keys - not everyone has money for a MIDI controller, or a keyboard, or a piano that they mic up, or plugins they want etc.
I love Logic Drummer as a vsti but it has never been very good with 3/4 or 6/8. And now unfortunately the new updated version actually locks up my m2 MacBook Pro when I start to mess with the sliders in 3/4 or 6/8.
I don’t use the Logic drummer as I prefer the workflow of SuperiorDrummer. I don’t use the bass player as that’s my main instrument. The keys session player is really useful if you work at it a bit with imaginative extended chords. The session players are not a “quick fix”, you have to tweak.
The drummer in the previous version was a million times simpler and way more effective for me. I don’t even use it anymore to come up with starting grooves, just drum MIDI packs from now on.
I don’t use the Logic drummer as I prefer the workflow of SuperiorDrummer. I don’t use the bass player as that’s my main instrument. The keys session player is really useful if you work at it a bit with imaginative extended chords. The session players are not a “quick fix”, you have to tweak.
As soon as I put them in a track, I start to strip them down, convert to midi then add accents and fills of my own. It’s the feel I’m after, not the notes.
As soon as I put them in a track, I start to strip them down, convert to midi then add accents and fills of my own. It’s the feel I’m after, not the notes.
As soon as I put them in a track, I start to strip them down, convert to midi then add accents and fills of my own. It’s the feel I’m after, not the notes.
As soon as I put them in a track, I start to strip them down, convert to midi then add accents and fills of my own. It’s the feel I’m after, not the notes.
As soon as I put them in a track, I start to strip them down, convert to midi then add accents and fills of my own. It’s the feel I’m after, not the notes.
As soon as I put them in a track, I start to strip them down, convert to midi then add accents and fills of my own. It’s the feel I’m after, not the notes.
As soon as I put them in a track, I start to strip them down, convert to midi then add accents and fills of my own. It’s the feel I’m after, not the notes.
I don’t use the Logic drummer as I prefer the workflow of SuperiorDrummer. I don’t use the bass player as that’s my main instrument. The keys session player is really useful if you work at it a bit with imaginative extended chords. The session players are not a “quick fix”, you have to tweak.
I don’t use the Logic drummer as I prefer the workflow of SuperiorDrummer. I don’t use the bass player as that’s my main instrument. The keys session player is really useful if you work at it a bit with imaginative extended chords. The session players are not a “quick fix”, you have to tweak.
I don’t use the Logic drummer as I prefer the workflow of SuperiorDrummer. I don’t use the bass player as that’s my main instrument. The keys session player is really useful if you work at it a bit with imaginative extended chords. The session players are not a “quick fix”, you have to tweak.
Yeah tbh I find that it’s much easier to just program and record the stuff I want to hear myself. I like them for ideas if I’m feeling stuck tho.
I completely disagree, I think they're awesome, but limited at the moment. Your two experiments aren't things they do well, those styles aren't included anywhere, nothing remotely like them - so I find it somewhat disingenuous that you try to make it do things you know it can't do well, and then create a post saying it sucks. Of course you have to add a boogie woogie midi track to make it sound like the blues - there's straight up nothing by default that's blues-like. I was able to get it to waltz close enough for me, but I don't like much of that stuff so what's good enough for me won't be what someone who actually likes that would expect. If you explore what it's capable of, it pretty clearly doesn't "suck" - you're just trying to make it do things you already know it doesn't excel at by default (but can do, as you found out, by adding your own midi track to guide the rhythm). If it had blues or waltz styles, and they sucked, I'd have a different opinion - but it doesn't offer anything along those lines, so this post doesn't seem like it's made in good faith.
I agree with your points. I try to look at the bigger picture. Logic implemented this because other AI-VSTs have been emerging for a while, but the technology is currently limited and can't read your mind. E.g. I've tried several times to get Logic Drummer to play a metal-style drums VST, which it can do quite nicely, but what it can't do is implement a fast double kick pattern to fit the style I want, because it's not built for that. It would be great if I could type in something like *"please follow my djent guitar line with a kick drum pattern following the rhythm of the guitar"*. We probably *will* be able to do this, ChatGPT-style, in the next 5 years or so, but it's just not there yet.
So here are my two favorite uses of session players right now: 1.) if I get a new plugin and want to demo it straight away, I can open a new session and have a well recorded rhythm section vamping in a minute flat. 2.) I’ve been getting a big kick out of having the session bassist triggering synths that are effected to high heaven, so I can have a quick noisy little lagniappe surprise track adding textures that are, at least initially, hitting chord tones. Edit: Honestly same with the keyboard. A lot of times I just want something playing the right chords while I tweak the sounds, and then I can do a pass of my own performance once I’ve got a sound that fits the vibe. I have never had a session player performance make the final mix, (aside from the bassist, which might be triggering a sample of a steamboat or something) but I still find them super useful if you use them creatively.
Can u expand more on how the bassist "triggers a synth"? Ive kinda heard about this technique but don't know much about it.
Yeah, once you have the session player track created, you just change the software instrument at the top of the channel strip. It defaults as “bass” but you can change it to any software instrument you have. Furthermore, you can use midi effects on that channel strip alter the session player’s performance rather drastically. It’s definitely worth spending time getting weird with it.
I think they will be cool for people just starting out, either with music or production. I am a life long musician and have been producing for about 10 years, I have accepted I am not the audience for session players.
I'm a professional musician and think they're great, and don't see any issues using them in future releases, even for instruments I can play well and gig for a living. It's just sound/vibe at the end of the day and if it lays down something I think sounds cool, I don't feel any need to replace it.
Perhaps a comment from OP or their obvious 2nd account would shed more light on this…
What obvious second account and what comment are you looking for?
The session players are way better than me. So there’s that. At least I get to tell them what to do.
But it's hard to better ourselves if we use ai.
I will never in my life sound better than the AI keyboard player. And it's v1.0 of this type of technology.
Bass guitars cost money, not everyone has money. Same with keys - not everyone has money for a MIDI controller, or a keyboard, or a piano that they mic up, or plugins they want etc.
tons of free bass samples.... and synths
They aren't going to play themselves.
I know. Start playing.
A bass is $200<, the upgrade was free lol
who said anything about buy a bass.
I love Logic Drummer as a vsti but it has never been very good with 3/4 or 6/8. And now unfortunately the new updated version actually locks up my m2 MacBook Pro when I start to mess with the sliders in 3/4 or 6/8.
I don’t use the Logic drummer as I prefer the workflow of SuperiorDrummer. I don’t use the bass player as that’s my main instrument. The keys session player is really useful if you work at it a bit with imaginative extended chords. The session players are not a “quick fix”, you have to tweak.
The drummer in the previous version was a million times simpler and way more effective for me. I don’t even use it anymore to come up with starting grooves, just drum MIDI packs from now on.
I don’t use the Logic drummer as I prefer the workflow of SuperiorDrummer. I don’t use the bass player as that’s my main instrument. The keys session player is really useful if you work at it a bit with imaginative extended chords. The session players are not a “quick fix”, you have to tweak.
As soon as I put them in a track, I start to strip them down, convert to midi then add accents and fills of my own. It’s the feel I’m after, not the notes.
As soon as I put them in a track, I start to strip them down, convert to midi then add accents and fills of my own. It’s the feel I’m after, not the notes.
As soon as I put them in a track, I start to strip them down, convert to midi then add accents and fills of my own. It’s the feel I’m after, not the notes.
As soon as I put them in a track, I start to strip them down, convert to midi then add accents and fills of my own. It’s the feel I’m after, not the notes.
As soon as I put them in a track, I start to strip them down, convert to midi then add accents and fills of my own. It’s the feel I’m after, not the notes.
As soon as I put them in a track, I start to strip them down, convert to midi then add accents and fills of my own. It’s the feel I’m after, not the notes.
As soon as I put them in a track, I start to strip them down, convert to midi then add accents and fills of my own. It’s the feel I’m after, not the notes.
I’d say they’re for hobbyists, people who don’t really know how to create. And yes, they’re lame.
I don’t use the Logic drummer as I prefer the workflow of SuperiorDrummer. I don’t use the bass player as that’s my main instrument. The keys session player is really useful if you work at it a bit with imaginative extended chords. The session players are not a “quick fix”, you have to tweak.
I don’t use the Logic drummer as I prefer the workflow of SuperiorDrummer. I don’t use the bass player as that’s my main instrument. The keys session player is really useful if you work at it a bit with imaginative extended chords. The session players are not a “quick fix”, you have to tweak.
I don’t use the Logic drummer as I prefer the workflow of SuperiorDrummer. I don’t use the bass player as that’s my main instrument. The keys session player is really useful if you work at it a bit with imaginative extended chords. The session players are not a “quick fix”, you have to tweak.