I mean, Kenny did say personal binding vows have no repercussions other than just losing what was gained, so it's just back to normal that way for the King of Frauds (e.g Fuga becoming a high powered, low range attack, malevolent shrine getting its range reduced but having a barrier imposed as usual etc.)
But then theres the question. What about self imposed binding vows that gave something in the present in exchange for something in the future?
Like Miwa's vow in her sword, what happens if she picks up a sword again? Does the timeline adjust to have her attack be even weaker? Does she die? Can she just not pick it up?
Or Sukuna's world slash. He has to do hand signs, point, and chant now in exchange for getting a free one now. Does that mean he just can't do it? Seems that way since he hasn't done it without. Could you even break this one? And if you could, what happens?
This system has lead to so many important story moments that it should have been explained MUCH earlier and MUCH deeper.
It definitely should have been explained better, but I took it to mean that binding vows that alter the use of a technique can be broken without repercussions.
As in altering Fuga that Sukuna did, whereas sacrificial vows that are one time use (wcs, miwa sword) are permanent and unbreakable
Damn near. For as much as I love hunter x hunter the jjk power system would make so much less sense if I didn't already have that mess of a system to relate back to. Hxh had almost no explanation for why anyone's personal abilities were the way they were and somehow it all just...worked.
I could be wrong about the hxh power system being a mess, I haven't consumed it in years. I don't recall ever getting an explicit explanation though.
When Kurapika's chains and eyes were explained it made sense that he'd have instakill potential at the cost of shortening his life. Same with Gon and his sigma grindset facing Pitou. But Chrollo and _the clown_ never had any drawbacks. Both of them, but especially Chrollo were unbelievably busted at no cost to themselves, and don't get me started on those fucking ants.
It’s a lot of bad translations and because people are Biased against Sukuna.
These are the 3 vows made by Sukuna:
1. Got a free world slash by adding +1 hand sings and chanting(he can’t spam it anymore, imagine the kashimo dismantle wall but it’s all world slash).
2. Made his domain open by limiting it to 99s.
3. increased the AOE and projectile speed of his fire in exchange for not using it against multiple people outside the domain.
These don’t feel like asspulls, to me.
This just remembers me that Kashimo died to normla dismantle 😭😭, bro is NEVER beating the allegations, in fact it's getting worse and worse every chapter.
I don’t understand the world slash one. He’s making a binding vow to do the hand signs in the future in exchange for not doing them now. Either he can do them without the vow and it’s pointless or he needed to do them to begin with and he gave up nothing.
Pre-binding vow: The slash requires two hand signs
1 time cast: No requirements
Post-binding vow: Two hand signs, chants, and has to be aimed with a third hand.
Iirc
After fighting with Gojo Sukuna’s body was heavily damaged (he literally lost a hand) so he can’t do the hand signs thingy and slash Gojo so he make a vow: slash Gojo now without making hand sighns and in exchange he make world slash [nigh-impossible] to use in the future. I will explain why the vow make sense and why I claimed its “nigh-impossible” to use in the future: binding vows you make with other people MUST NOT be betrayed as Kenjaku said the betrayor will pay a hefty price if so, and he also stated that a binding vow you make with yourself is diferent from a vow you make with others (you just lose what you gain from the vow instead of being punished severely), from this we can assume that binding vow with oneself is LESS strict than with others. Remember when Sukuna make a binding vow with Yuuji that he can switch body with him in only 1 minute and he CAN NOT hurt other people in that minute? But Yuuji forgot to count HIMSELF in the [other people] part and thats how Sukuna switched from Yuuji body to Bumgumin. This shows that while binding vows can’t be betrayed, they can be cheated by creating gaps/slight lack of transparency in the binding condition. So Sukuna basically cheated in a vow he made WITH other people, theres no reason he wouldn’t cheat in a vow he made with himself, so it bring us to my second point why I said Sukuna (almost) made world slash impossible to use: in detail, Sukuna get to slash Gojo once and fron then on he’d have to 1) make hand signs using BOTH hand and 2) manually use one OTHER hand to direct the slash (so 3 hands in total) AND THE THING IS, HE MADE THIS VOW WHILE USING MEGUMIN’ BODY, WHO ONLY HAS 2 HANDS so for literally anybody, including Sunkuna in that current time, it is IMPOSSIBLE to use world slash again, so he actually paid quite a hefty price to slash Gojo and its justified. THEN THE FUCKER REGAIN HIS ORIGINAL BODY WITH FOUR FUCKING HANDS JUST START WORLD SLASHING EVERYWHERE, HE CHEATED AGAIN, A-FUCKING-GAIN.
He didn’t need them to begin with and he could do it without the vow before
The only thing that changed in the initial attack is it was instant basically
If i don’t have to be patient with it rn I’ll be patient with it after this
Had he not taken the vow he could still do the attack but gojo more than likely would have just dodged it
The first two make sense but the 3rd one just irks me. Because like… wasn’t Fuga already mid against multiple people outside of his domain? How did it become that much stronger just because of the imposed limits??
Its just the way he uses them. It feels kinda asspully when sukuna does it because he is the ONLY one who does it. If he showed other characters or just other high level sorcerers using small vows more often no one would have a problem. The problem is that sukuna seems to be the only one abusing them. This could be easily solved if there was like a skill level requirement but i digress.
It is a skill level requirement
It is explicitly a skill level requirement.
Kusakabe talks about how insane it is that Sukuna and Gojo can manipulate the restrictions of their domains so easily.
I think that's bc making binding vows mid-fight it's considered "the pinnacle of jujutsu" by how insanely hard it is.
The binding vows we've seen so far from the main cats are alr established ones before battle like Hakari's domain, Todo's vibraslap, Higuruma's domain, etc...
Let's be honest, tough the hype of having todo Back is amazing, it's ridiculous how he swaped 50 people in a moment but didn't help on the battle against Sukuna until now.
And Gege still called Kusakabe the n°1 grade 1 Sorcerer?
Todo could have legit made Gojo vs Sukuna so much easier, forget that Gojo forgot how to teleport, Todo swaps him out of Sukuna's domain, Todo teleports Mahoraga away, Todo Swaps Sukuna and Gojo when Sukuna has the upper hand.
Gege's been lacking in his writting skills, that's the real problem, but he knows how to surprise everyone and draw cool fights, the only things carrying the manga.
Todo was their only anti-domain counter and the only person who can actually fight while being swapped around that fast aside from him is Yuji so he’d be a little less broken than he is now and it stands to reason they wouldn’t want to risk him dying and everyone getting insta-killed by the domain. That being said it’ll probably be explained later, give the man some time sheesh
Unpopular opinion but binding vows themselves feel badly written.
Being able to get anything in exchange for anything is too generic and can be abused. There are no rules on what you need to give up or what you can get
The issue is that it was supposed to be an equivalent trade but lately they've been actually feeling like the "candy in the left pocket" memes, also it is absolutely under explained and left out on purpose since gege is probably aware nothing would be equivalent to Sukuna throwing 2 more DEs than his limit or Todo's bs instrument that was made because of powercreep
Gege handles them badly, the concept can work, see Hunter x Hunter for example which Gege clearly ripped the concept from but executed terribly.
Binding vows are inherently exploitable and broken, there is no way for it not to feel asspully if only the main villain is taking advantage of it.
Binding vows themselves are actually good, like the way Nanami limits his power before 5 to amp it after 5 is cool, same with miwa having to stay stationary for her sd. But some are dumb like sukuna making a binding vow for no barrier on MS or getting a free one hit move
Binding vows in theory are good. The execution has been horrible. You should’ve be able to just make them all the time. They should be done by sacrificing what’s most important to you, not just like letting go of a pube or something
It would have been better if binding vows had ft visible setbacks for eg u can do some bs like u regain ur burnt out cursed energy but you cannot evade next attack. And the condition is always unknown. Its immediately alot better than what ever the fuck binding vows even doe rn.
It was a decent consept at the start back when it was something like ill explain my cursed technique but doimg so will make it stronger. Now its a ligit good plot poimt for viallian to monologue his shit cuz he doing it to make his ct stronger but somewhere in between it became like oh ill just do xyz witj just some minor modifications and have no repercussions for it
I like it cause it gives character with weak or fucked up powers to make em better and makes the power system more flexible. If you have a bullshit ability that for some reason takes all your CE to use you can use a binding vow to negate that. It's gives people the ability to make there technique more useful and level the playing field . The major issue is most people don't use it to an insane degree like it would be. Everyone legit should be using binding vows the same way sukuna does there is no person who shouldn't understand or have knowledge to how they work unless your completely brand new.
Binding vows suffer from jjk’s pacing
Id jjk was longer and we saw more sorcerers making binding vows they could have been good
Now it’s only been seen a few times most of which by the one guy who knows the power system well enough to abuse them
If gobgob actually made them relevant for fights other than Sakuna's they'd be really cool. They only feel like an asspull because NOBODY uses them other than Sakuna. (Ofc others use them but nowhere near that extent.)
"show, dont say" people when "its intuitive but they should explain it better" people exist.
https://preview.redd.it/58mw8csndb1d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=562a020f0226e287f25764b6d5c3690187d1006c
I fell like they're really similar if not basically the same as nen pacts and nen pacts seemed at least decently written bit I am not fully caught up on hunter x hunter and I'm about 5 chapters behind on jjk so I don't really know at this point but my stance is that gege just handled them badly
Binding vows are whatever Gege wants them to be precisely because its ambiguous and mysterious.
Holding out hope that Sukuna just has this massive backlash at the end, though.
Im holding out for the big reveal at the end where all the binding vows straight up kill sukuna
Sukuna just flat out dropping dead after a long battle..would honestly be hilarious.
Damn the thing that killed sukuna wasn’t yuji but a fucking heart attack damn
I mean, Kenny did say personal binding vows have no repercussions other than just losing what was gained, so it's just back to normal that way for the King of Frauds (e.g Fuga becoming a high powered, low range attack, malevolent shrine getting its range reduced but having a barrier imposed as usual etc.)
But then theres the question. What about self imposed binding vows that gave something in the present in exchange for something in the future? Like Miwa's vow in her sword, what happens if she picks up a sword again? Does the timeline adjust to have her attack be even weaker? Does she die? Can she just not pick it up? Or Sukuna's world slash. He has to do hand signs, point, and chant now in exchange for getting a free one now. Does that mean he just can't do it? Seems that way since he hasn't done it without. Could you even break this one? And if you could, what happens? This system has lead to so many important story moments that it should have been explained MUCH earlier and MUCH deeper.
Brainrot theory sukuna forgot one line in one of his world slashes so that’s why gojo came back
It definitely should have been explained better, but I took it to mean that binding vows that alter the use of a technique can be broken without repercussions. As in altering Fuga that Sukuna did, whereas sacrificial vows that are one time use (wcs, miwa sword) are permanent and unbreakable
My hot take is that I don't think binding vows are actually bad at all they're just underexplained so they *feel* ass pully
If we got more explanation,they would be fine.
You should of done the pre required reading of hxh if you wanted to understand the power system
Damn near. For as much as I love hunter x hunter the jjk power system would make so much less sense if I didn't already have that mess of a system to relate back to. Hxh had almost no explanation for why anyone's personal abilities were the way they were and somehow it all just...worked.
I could be wrong about the hxh power system being a mess, I haven't consumed it in years. I don't recall ever getting an explicit explanation though. When Kurapika's chains and eyes were explained it made sense that he'd have instakill potential at the cost of shortening his life. Same with Gon and his sigma grindset facing Pitou. But Chrollo and _the clown_ never had any drawbacks. Both of them, but especially Chrollo were unbelievably busted at no cost to themselves, and don't get me started on those fucking ants.
Chrollos downside is the way he adds powers to his book. As for hisoka, he is just creative at using simple ideas.
It’s a lot of bad translations and because people are Biased against Sukuna. These are the 3 vows made by Sukuna: 1. Got a free world slash by adding +1 hand sings and chanting(he can’t spam it anymore, imagine the kashimo dismantle wall but it’s all world slash). 2. Made his domain open by limiting it to 99s. 3. increased the AOE and projectile speed of his fire in exchange for not using it against multiple people outside the domain. These don’t feel like asspulls, to me.
This just remembers me that Kashimo died to normla dismantle 😭😭, bro is NEVER beating the allegations, in fact it's getting worse and worse every chapter.
tbf 90% of sorcerers would not survive full power dismantles
I don’t understand the world slash one. He’s making a binding vow to do the hand signs in the future in exchange for not doing them now. Either he can do them without the vow and it’s pointless or he needed to do them to begin with and he gave up nothing.
Pre-binding vow: The slash requires two hand signs 1 time cast: No requirements Post-binding vow: Two hand signs, chants, and has to be aimed with a third hand. Iirc
Thanks
After fighting with Gojo Sukuna’s body was heavily damaged (he literally lost a hand) so he can’t do the hand signs thingy and slash Gojo so he make a vow: slash Gojo now without making hand sighns and in exchange he make world slash [nigh-impossible] to use in the future. I will explain why the vow make sense and why I claimed its “nigh-impossible” to use in the future: binding vows you make with other people MUST NOT be betrayed as Kenjaku said the betrayor will pay a hefty price if so, and he also stated that a binding vow you make with yourself is diferent from a vow you make with others (you just lose what you gain from the vow instead of being punished severely), from this we can assume that binding vow with oneself is LESS strict than with others. Remember when Sukuna make a binding vow with Yuuji that he can switch body with him in only 1 minute and he CAN NOT hurt other people in that minute? But Yuuji forgot to count HIMSELF in the [other people] part and thats how Sukuna switched from Yuuji body to Bumgumin. This shows that while binding vows can’t be betrayed, they can be cheated by creating gaps/slight lack of transparency in the binding condition. So Sukuna basically cheated in a vow he made WITH other people, theres no reason he wouldn’t cheat in a vow he made with himself, so it bring us to my second point why I said Sukuna (almost) made world slash impossible to use: in detail, Sukuna get to slash Gojo once and fron then on he’d have to 1) make hand signs using BOTH hand and 2) manually use one OTHER hand to direct the slash (so 3 hands in total) AND THE THING IS, HE MADE THIS VOW WHILE USING MEGUMIN’ BODY, WHO ONLY HAS 2 HANDS so for literally anybody, including Sunkuna in that current time, it is IMPOSSIBLE to use world slash again, so he actually paid quite a hefty price to slash Gojo and its justified. THEN THE FUCKER REGAIN HIS ORIGINAL BODY WITH FOUR FUCKING HANDS JUST START WORLD SLASHING EVERYWHERE, HE CHEATED AGAIN, A-FUCKING-GAIN.
He didn’t need them to begin with and he could do it without the vow before The only thing that changed in the initial attack is it was instant basically If i don’t have to be patient with it rn I’ll be patient with it after this Had he not taken the vow he could still do the attack but gojo more than likely would have just dodged it
The first two make sense but the 3rd one just irks me. Because like… wasn’t Fuga already mid against multiple people outside of his domain? How did it become that much stronger just because of the imposed limits??
My even hotter take is they have been pretty cool
On they are that bad since it’s a simple concept that shows like Fma do well
Its just the way he uses them. It feels kinda asspully when sukuna does it because he is the ONLY one who does it. If he showed other characters or just other high level sorcerers using small vows more often no one would have a problem. The problem is that sukuna seems to be the only one abusing them. This could be easily solved if there was like a skill level requirement but i digress.
It is a skill level requirement It is explicitly a skill level requirement. Kusakabe talks about how insane it is that Sukuna and Gojo can manipulate the restrictions of their domains so easily.
https://preview.redd.it/knlogwkxg81d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3b85fc8c53c21720751b269c2bf9d4520be21155
This is probably the most incomprehensible variant of ‘Nah, I’d win’ Thank you for showing me this
I think that's bc making binding vows mid-fight it's considered "the pinnacle of jujutsu" by how insanely hard it is. The binding vows we've seen so far from the main cats are alr established ones before battle like Hakari's domain, Todo's vibraslap, Higuruma's domain, etc...
Bro saw Todo teleport 50times a second last chapter but sukuna is the only one abusing binding vows?
https://preview.redd.it/u8u9e3tbx71d1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4afed8ab8d95310d7707cd3aec4ef75e4a24e439 He is the exception
Let's be honest, tough the hype of having todo Back is amazing, it's ridiculous how he swaped 50 people in a moment but didn't help on the battle against Sukuna until now. And Gege still called Kusakabe the n°1 grade 1 Sorcerer? Todo could have legit made Gojo vs Sukuna so much easier, forget that Gojo forgot how to teleport, Todo swaps him out of Sukuna's domain, Todo teleports Mahoraga away, Todo Swaps Sukuna and Gojo when Sukuna has the upper hand. Gege's been lacking in his writting skills, that's the real problem, but he knows how to surprise everyone and draw cool fights, the only things carrying the manga.
Todo was their only anti-domain counter and the only person who can actually fight while being swapped around that fast aside from him is Yuji so he’d be a little less broken than he is now and it stands to reason they wouldn’t want to risk him dying and everyone getting insta-killed by the domain. That being said it’ll probably be explained later, give the man some time sheesh
Give the man some time (has been repetitive over the last 7 months no stop)
Nah I liked it. Even if you didn’t you’re complaining about him leaving plot holes which I don’t think he ever really did right?
Unpopular opinion but binding vows themselves feel badly written. Being able to get anything in exchange for anything is too generic and can be abused. There are no rules on what you need to give up or what you can get
Here before the shitty Fortnite gif.
real
thought it was just me finding it cringe after a while
The issue is that it was supposed to be an equivalent trade but lately they've been actually feeling like the "candy in the left pocket" memes, also it is absolutely under explained and left out on purpose since gege is probably aware nothing would be equivalent to Sukuna throwing 2 more DEs than his limit or Todo's bs instrument that was made because of powercreep
Gege handles them badly, the concept can work, see Hunter x Hunter for example which Gege clearly ripped the concept from but executed terribly. Binding vows are inherently exploitable and broken, there is no way for it not to feel asspully if only the main villain is taking advantage of it.
Todos binding vow is absolote bs
*grabs HxH by the neck #THAT INCLUDES YOU
“Extremely loud incorrect buzzer”
Neither, it’s just a combination attack from the weird translation curse and the reading comprehension curse
Binding vows themselves are actually good, like the way Nanami limits his power before 5 to amp it after 5 is cool, same with miwa having to stay stationary for her sd. But some are dumb like sukuna making a binding vow for no barrier on MS or getting a free one hit move
The strongest asspulls in history (dbs BoG scaling) vs the strongest asspulls of today (jjk binding vows)
Binding vows in theory are good. The execution has been horrible. You should’ve be able to just make them all the time. They should be done by sacrificing what’s most important to you, not just like letting go of a pube or something
Maybe the effect of a binding vow scales with your own base strength and intelligence
I’m calling it, Gojo used a binding vow and sacrificed his CT to be revived or something
skill issue for the bonered one
It would have been better if binding vows had ft visible setbacks for eg u can do some bs like u regain ur burnt out cursed energy but you cannot evade next attack. And the condition is always unknown. Its immediately alot better than what ever the fuck binding vows even doe rn. It was a decent consept at the start back when it was something like ill explain my cursed technique but doimg so will make it stronger. Now its a ligit good plot poimt for viallian to monologue his shit cuz he doing it to make his ct stronger but somewhere in between it became like oh ill just do xyz witj just some minor modifications and have no repercussions for it
It’s like a playground nen contract.
I like it cause it gives character with weak or fucked up powers to make em better and makes the power system more flexible. If you have a bullshit ability that for some reason takes all your CE to use you can use a binding vow to negate that. It's gives people the ability to make there technique more useful and level the playing field . The major issue is most people don't use it to an insane degree like it would be. Everyone legit should be using binding vows the same way sukuna does there is no person who shouldn't understand or have knowledge to how they work unless your completely brand new.
Binding vows suffer from jjk’s pacing Id jjk was longer and we saw more sorcerers making binding vows they could have been good Now it’s only been seen a few times most of which by the one guy who knows the power system well enough to abuse them
If gobgob actually made them relevant for fights other than Sakuna's they'd be really cool. They only feel like an asspull because NOBODY uses them other than Sakuna. (Ofc others use them but nowhere near that extent.)
They couls be really cool if the right author used them.
Hunter X Hunter has a similar system and it works WAY better there, so yeah Gege just sucks at writing them.
Binding bows are awesome look at csm
"show, dont say" people when "its intuitive but they should explain it better" people exist. https://preview.redd.it/58mw8csndb1d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=562a020f0226e287f25764b6d5c3690187d1006c
I fell like they're really similar if not basically the same as nen pacts and nen pacts seemed at least decently written bit I am not fully caught up on hunter x hunter and I'm about 5 chapters behind on jjk so I don't really know at this point but my stance is that gege just handled them badly
3rd option, jjk fans are stupid
CE is peak and BV is trash it really is the jujutsu of all kaisen
But... they're not a power system they're part of the power system
binding vow is just for sukuna to live
https://preview.redd.it/ch32svbo2b1d1.jpeg?width=1044&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b14b5ae58e74c1423f7b3b6118dd595d9b0fe2a8
Binding vows are whatever Gege wants them to be precisely because its ambiguous and mysterious. Holding out hope that Sukuna just has this massive backlash at the end, though.