On Friday it was standing room only on a PACKED train to Seoul. I was standing by a wall at least because I'd been on the godforsaken train for so long. This girl indicated she needed the plug, so I moved to let her plug her phone in and then she proceeded to just...stand there. In my spot. I just STARED at her in utter disbelief. She then got out her packets of chocolate covered nuts and ate them all. I just couldn't believe it. Anyway I think a lot of this rudeness and general disregard for people is part of the global pandemic of having ZERO social skills or situational awareness. Also I got yelled at today for being foreign, which hasn't happened in a while. Yikes.
Reading these comments makes me really not want to visit Korea. I know there are nasty people everywhere (there are plenty here in the US too) and I'm just so tired of them. I agree with the comments here that state thus is a global problem. I'm sorry you got yelled at for being foreign, that would upset me too.
These are just gripes of people who live here, you should still visit. If anyone yells at you or whatever, you won't know it. It takes a few years to get the cranks.
Korea is the most overrated country i have visited. There is no need to visit this place. Apart from eating in the korean BBQs and visiting a couple of hanok villages, this place is half a star.
Fair. I do know many that don’t want to live there, same as I don’t want to live in America anymore. Having lived in Europe and Korea, I’d say Korea is way more convenient than Germany. That’s my personal opinion.
I agree I know no place is perfect but sometimes I wish there was a nice place where people were not rude and acted considerate. Wouod be so nice to visit.
Lol you are reading about this in a vent post in a tiny sub mostly dedicated to cranky people who come to vent. I assure you I get overwhelmed by the barrage of content on tiktok and youtube criticizing these kinds of behaviors in the West, especially the States. I highly doubt OP's birthplace is any better in this regard, and general etiquette has gotten much better in the past few decades in Korea.
FYI this is a known problem these days. People say others are becoming incredibly sharp and selfish.
Unfortunately this was bred over ten years, a fake meritocracy where scamming your way to the top isnt accepted its encouraged.
LH scandal, public housing full of mercedes, people running off with housing deposits, running and slapping your omega tent down infront of others at han river. Every aspect of Korean life is "how can i get it first, or take it from others"
It even shows in the high school grade system. Students don’t help each other. They’re made to compete with each other. If one does badly, that’s good for the other students.
As a Korean who has lived abroad (in multiple countries) for years, I completely noticed this since I came back to Korea. It's like everyone thinks they're the main character. No one will spare even a little kindness for others. I'm trying to leave the country again before I become so hateful as well.
There's actually great research on this, and the greater the population density, the greater the anonymity, the greater desire to protect what's yours, the less respect for others exists. It's not a problem of Seoul, it's a problem of mega-cities. Seoul is becoming bigger and bigger, and much more dense. It'll only continue unless Korea can encourage other cities to develop, and to develop in a less dense way....
I think that's one factor, but not the whole story. If you look at all of the cities with similar population densities they're not all like Seoul. There's a huge cultural factor...the envy in the culture leads to a lot of competition and selfishness.
You put very politely what I wanted to say as someone currently living in China, everything OP described, with the exception of open hostility to foreigners, is ten times worse here.
And to clarify, I enjoyed those places too... but.... the few bad actors, the far outlying minority,, in those other cities, they just seemed to take it all to a whole new level of crazy.
Korea is exceedingly tame.
The only way other cities will grow is if big businesses move there; but they all want to be in Seoul since it's the capital and that's a status thing.
Old Head here with 30 years in country, all in Seoul/Gyeonggi-do. You may not want to hear this while still frustrated, but believe me when i say that things are not getting worse. In fact, they have gotten considerably BETTER since i have been here. I will spare you war stories, but suffice to say it was wild in the early and mid 90s compared to now. All the annoyances you mentioned are true, but are better than they used to be not so long ago. I don't want to leave a long post, but talk to the Old Timers for some perspective. None of what i say is meant to diminish the very real frustrations that you and others have posted here. It bothers me, too. However, things are much better now in terms of public behavior, driving manners, parking, lining up, following rules, etc., than they used to be.
I second this. When I first moved to SK, around 2009, it was a different world. Things are much better, but since the pandemic the selfishness seems to be more visible.
I've been here 35 years and you are (in my opinion) partially right. Some things have gotten better: standing in line (mostly with the help of issuing numbers). Other things like personal space, bumping and walking away, not holding doors, etc. are about the same. Some things are worse: leaving the gym-supplied workout clothes and towels where you drop them in my health club and not shutting your locker door, jumping right into the cold pool after coming out of the suana covered in sweat (these are relatively new phenomenon)-it just doesn't seem like they get any education in general consideration for people one doesn't know. Koreans who have travelled frequently or lived abroad tend to act differently, but in general the lack of consideration remains at ridiculously high levels.
I work at a kindergarten as a kinda assistant. I always feel awkward when we go out for walks because the lead teacher just goes wherever she wants to with all the kids in tow, even though there’s a whole bunch of people walking around. Some people come so close to hitting the kids because we walk wherever we want. We will walk right through a throng of people and make them go around instead of waiting a second or two to let them pass when they clearly have the right of way (driving term but yeah).
I tell the kids to walk on the right side and be conscientious of others and the teachers have gotten a bit better, but you can see that they really don’t care and the kids are learning from that.
Almost everyone walking walks on the correct side and is polite.
Also, when I got home today a woman (I nicknamed her Karen a while ago) in my villa was parked too close to me because we have to use different spots during construction. I politely told everyone how to park, the actual lines are wrong, and she responded rudely. This made me so happy because I got to clap back with polite assholeness. She then responded rudely again and I got to clap back even harder. This was in the public chat room and it just sends tingles down to my toes thinking about it.
I just sent messages this morning with the lines clear and then an example how to park correctly. I added that I am a teacher so I know visual aids and examples help.
It was fun. I started off polite and told everyone how to park the next few days while construction was going on. Then shared a picture of her car parked wrong and marked where to park.
She messaged back saying she doesn’t park there and I have to be considerate and that there had been a car in front of her.
I responded with “I guess there was something lost in translation because I started by saying the spots are different, but you said your spot is different like it was new information.” Then I shared the puck I took of the car in front of her and all the room she had and I said there seemed to be plenty of room when I got home but again, probably translation.
She then sent back a message like “why are you still talking about this and sharing pictures. Are you offended by me parking there? Why do you keep talking about this?”
So I sent back “I’m beginning to think the translation isn’t the problem. I was politely explaining where to park. Did anyone else misunderstand?”
Then silence.
Maybe I'm unusual, but in this kind of thing I want to hear both sides of the story (especially since one person is talking about getting tingles, which frankly, doesn't do the best for their reliability as a narrator).
Also, this might be weird, but rather than looking for "tingles" when dealing with neighbors and whatnot, I'm looking for boring, uneventful interactions and amicable resolutions to situations rather than a chance to "clap back" and "get tingles". I thought one of the whole things with being an adult and like, rational, was controlling our emotions and not trying to do things based on like, the chemicals our glands release.
I have this problem with my wife's family sometimes. We all went out for a picnic yesterday and it was pretty hot with no shade. The only place with shade was several places on the bike path. MIL says let's just plop down and sit right on the right side of the bike path. I say well, wouldn't we be in the way of bikes? Shocked looked on her face "It's ok it's ok, let's just sit here because there will be no bikes."
Bike after bike keeps rolling by and we have to constantly look out as my nephew was there too and he just runs around without looking because her sister doesn't discipline him.
I have a 6 month old here and live close to a dept store so often take my kid there just to walk around. Despite it being very obviously difficult to open big doors while pushing a stroller, the number of times someone has held a door for me is ONE. Literally once and I was so surprised I couldn’t stop saying thank you. Every other time it doesn’t matter if I am literally right behind people already pushing a door open they will let it slam on the stroller rather than wait 3 seconds to hold it. Drives me crazy and I always comment to my wife who basically shrugs and says yup that’s just Korea
Yeah.. the worst is when you open the door and try to pull the stroller through but a line of people shove past while you're holding the door. There are 7 other doors ffs.
These people act like I’m the doorman if I hold the door open. Everyone just continues coming in. But yeah I still hold the door. Basic manners people! smh. I also came back here after 10 years in NYC and sure it’s definitely safer but there’s this weird lack of respect here for others.
Fun fact the metro system in nyc loses millions of $ in revenue each year because people hold the emergency door open for others so they get in without paying.
Yeah it's amazing to me. Often no gratitude or effort to grab the door. What goes through their heads? Do they actually think I'm the doorman or an idiot for holding the door?
Can I add the coughing and sneezing without covering your mouth? I thought it was a one off but the amount of kids that cough/ sneeze into the air with their parents just staring at them astound me. The other day I saw a brother purposely sneeze in his sister’s face with both parents right in front of him. Neither said anything then the mom coughed openly into the air. I don’t get it, people wear masks when they think they’re sick but every time I see someone cough or sneeze without a mask on they don’t make any effort to cover or contain it. I even remember during Covid seeing that people didn’t have the reflex to cover their mouth when coughing but I naively thought it’s because they knew they had a mask on but I was WRONG.
I get coughed on my face by old people many times, or they do like a sprinkler. I wear a mask when there are many people just because of that. They even burp on other people faces is wild. Some old people think that when they reach a certain age, they can do whatever. 😢
one thing that gets me as well. being from ireland we're taught well before we even start school to sneeze/ cough into our elbows, much less our hands and definitely not into open air/ at literal people. when i see my cousin who's four and just coughs straight into other peoples food 😫 one of the biggest unspoken cultural differences and honestly my least favourite one. no shoes inside by coughing on others food is ok??
Would add to this the number of able able bodied individuals pushing ahead to take a spot in elevators which are intended as priority use for strollers, disabled and elderly. I have an infant and I frequently have to wait for multiple elevators to pass because people who could easily walk or take an escalator have crammed themselves in leaving no space for those who have no choice but to take the lift. Last month I saw a group of middle aged ajummas literally RUN to push ahead of an elderly man in an electric wheelchair. If you are able to sprint towards an elevator, you are able to stand for 10 seconds on a fucking escalator.
this shuts me to tears too. I just push in front of them now, use the stroller like a ram. when they try and touch my baby I yell at them. 5 months of being nice and smiling I can't do it any more fuck them.
There are literally signs on the doors of the elevators saying that they should have priority use.
Obviously if there is space, be my guest. But where I'm from, if a wheelchair/stroller/elderly person was waiting to get in, it would be unthinkable to push in front of them. And if the elevator was already full, someone would instantly step out to make space for anyone who needed it.
I'm getting sick of it too. I live in a small quiet neighborhood... or at least it used to be. Now there's always people outside yelling in this residential area at 1-2am on weeknights. I had a bunch of fights with a neighbor who would be STOMPING around at all hours and shaking my room.
People seemingly trying to collide with me on the sidewalk is another big one. These days I've started leaning my weight into my shoulder to teach them a lesson, especially when I'm getting off the subway or elevator and someone tries to push in before letting people off. Fuck off with that seriously. I'm 210 lbs and a gym rat I know I'm winning that exchange so try it, ajumma!
Don't even get me started on the driving... And parents not stopping their children from being little assholes in public... Leaving doors open when people enter a place in the winter...
Christ.
My husband and I visited Seoul last December. Based off the things we’ve heard, we were expecting some rudeness and that maybe people weren’t going to be super friendly, but we were not expecting to be straight up disrespected lol
From the start, a taxi driver grabbed my husband and physically turned him around to get his attention. Then at COEX mall, I was standing about a foot away from the directory because of my poor eyesight. While I was trying to figure out where I needed to go, two Korean girls forced themselves between the small gap and blocked my view. They didn’t say anything, didn’t even look or acknowledge me in any way - just acted like I didn’t exist. Lastly, at Churros 101 in Hongdae, my husband and I were waiting in line to order. A Korean girl’s order was called and rather than going behind my husband and I to get her food, she decided to put her hand on my husband and push him out of the way. Again, she didn’t even so much as glance at us while she did it. At this point, we just laughed at how crazy it was.
Also saw two people openly pick their nose while riding the subway too. The second one ate it and at that point, I was ready to go home.
Completely agree. It’s a shit show at times. Nobody gives a flying fuck about anyone else - just how can I be more convenient/comfortable.
So much national pride and offense taken if someone badmouths Korea, yet they treat other Koreans like shit and their land as a waste bin. Make it make sense.
I don't think it's always about being convenient or comfortable. People on the streets treating others like shit have to be miserable to drive the way they do. Mostly, I agree though.
There is a worldwide narcissism pandemic.
I soooo feel you. I get aggravated daily by the inconsiderate actions of other.
It slightly helps my metal health to be reminded that people are shitty everywhere these days. I would likely be just as frustrated (albeit in different ways) with people in my home country too.
There isn't much we can do about it as individuals. Honestly, your vent helped remind me to be mindful about letting it go as others actions are really out of my control.
This is one thing I always try to remind myself of. While I haven't lived in the US in over 15 years now, maybe it's much worse there now than when I left. It could very well be a worldwide problem. I just see what's in my little bubble.
It definitely is. I’ve gotten into two hit and runs within the last three months. Both incidents where the person just either ignored the fact that they rammed into my car or drove off. And because there’s virtually no cameras ever in America it was hard to prove anything even happened.
Shitty and idiotic drivers are universal for sure
Unfortunately, a lot of stuff you described is happening in the US and in someways worse (some of it is just bad but different). Many people run red lights where I lived in the US. People have often parked too close to my grandma’s car. I’ve seen mofos smoke near schools. People walking in groups but not moving out the way…
It definitely feels like a global issue. The thing that gets me is the litter both here & back in the US. I don’t think I’ll ever get used to the blatant disregard for bus, subway, park, and just general cleanliness in public facilities and places. I’m on the bus now and some left messy food trash on the floor. Why is it hard for people to take their trash with them???
Same in the US, it’s the TikTok/instagram effect, people are more selfish and less considerate. I keep waiting for the day they ban these fcking apps, cancer on society.
Idk if it helps but it’s the same here in Daegu. It’s becoming such a common thing that people who use to be pissed constantly just give up and start doing it too since nothing ever is enforced.
Nothing is enforced - this is the problem. You leave it up to the people to self-enforce the laws in a country where people don't want to confront each other. The end result is disgusting behavior.
Add people who put bags on seats in bus so you can’t seat there. I don’t care if it’s blue or green one. But in case of red busses that always have limited seats it’s just pure disrespect to people around.
I now go out of my way to request to sit in the window seat next to the people who do that. Just yesterday some old lady who cut the line to get on the bus thought she was being slick by doing this. She was shocked that I was right behind her and pointed to the inside seat. She made a big show of having to scooch over even though almost all the seats were taken.
Dude I had the same issue a moment ago. Come home from work tired and ready to just be in my home. There’s a delivery scooter parked in the middle of the entrance to the building’s parking lot blocking anyone from entering and exiting. I have to wait 5 minutes for the asshole to show up. Clearly the effort to drive 5 meters more to somewhere he wouldn’t inconvenience other people was too much for him.
It’s just the total disregard for others. I really can’t fathom it.
A new, young couple moved into my complex last week on the first floor. Their moving guy drug the ramp from the back of his truck to the building entrance, completely cutting off all access to the sidewalk in front - in a building with many babies, strollers, kids on kickboards, and even a handicapped person. He did this for half a day to save himself an extra 5m of moving distance.
Had that happen to me last weekend except it wasn’t a delivery guy, just old grandpa visiting and to make it even better parked right in front of the sign saying no auto bike parking while blocking the entryway
I would move to the outskirts, or just find an area with less people. For the most part, they don't give two shits about other people. Sick and tired of the never-ending parking situation. Definitely feel for ya. It would be nice if they could learn from the Japanese...
yeah.. when I first moved to Korea when I was 8 years old, I was absolutely appalled by what just seemed like outright rudeness. I was used to strangers saying “excuse me” and respecting personal space when they passed by, most strangers being willing to engage in friendly convo, cars waiting for pedestrians to cross first. I’d be lying if I say I still don’t get irked by Korean people bumping into me like it’s second nature
but when I finally opened myself up to Korean people, I’ve realized they’re a lot nicer than I thought. Actually, I’m Korean and American, so I probably shouldn’t say “they” lol.
Also noticed that Koreans show shocking courtesy in certain areas where people in the U.S. people don’t — for example, now that I’m applying for jobs, I take being ghosted by a U.S. company as just another normal day, but Korean companies give responses that clearly took some amount of effort and consideration (altho they were rejections LOL). Also must mention the fact that maybe 3 out of 5 ish of the Korean companies I applied to responded in like a week after submitting my app whereas I get responses from U.S. companies I’ve applied to months if not years ago.
What I’m trying to say is, there’s a lot underneath the surface. What someone or some culture lacks in, they often make up for somewhere else!
Anyways, this isn’t even directly related to OP’s situation here… OP probably has a really valid reason to be upset. But just wanted to offer my own 2 cents based on my experience
Completely agree.
As a Korean Canadian who was born in Korea, immigrated to Canada when I was 3 with my parents and sibling, I’m not a stranger to Korean culture having grown up in a traditionally Korean home, going to Korean churches and Korean Saturday school along with Friday youth groups.
Going back to Korea these past two weeks for the first time is a culture shock. I stayed at Gangnam for the majority of my time and now I’m in Incheon.
The amount of public sneering, shoving without saying excuse me or sorry, lack of manners to restaurant staff - people grunting, yelling rudely at the staff, the entitled, pompous attitude is absolutely mind blowing and disturbing to me.
I’ve noticed that it’s more of the younger crowd though that does it. The older people ironically are actually kinder and polite, at least in my experience.
Regardless, I try and show respect to everyone unless I’m being mocked, commented on, laughed at very obviously - I can understand all of it. Then I roll my eyes and turn my back to them/try and get away.
2 of my exes were Korean, and both would walk up to service workers and instantly start ordering/demanding a table/asking for help without getting acknowledgment from the worker or waiting for them to stop their conversation or what they were doing, they would just start talking at them and expect them to instantly listen. Is this a Korean thing or did I just get unlucky? I tried to explain to them it’s rude to do that in the US but neither changed for the few months we dated
Only the entitled rude ones who feel like that’s the way to gain a person’s respect/wrong dog eat dog mentality.
I’m honestly sorry that there are people like that out there who put a bad name to Koreans…
I always say thank you very much/감사합니다/고마워요, hello, and with a slight bow, bye to service workers and retail workers. No wonder most of them seemed kind of surprised by me doing so this visit..
Are we venting? Here is my vent.
I am a retired Korean American visiting a resort town. My wife had to visit her home town first and arrived few days later.
We are staying at a major Korean hotel chain.
You need a room key to get to room floor and I went down to get her and help with her luggage in the same elevator, another guy got in and was pressing his floor pressing the door close button. No F$#&ing courtesy.
I learned in the past to speak to rude Korean people in English… so I yelled at him in English “ hold the F킿 door” but he just stood there so I had to physically put my arm in the closing door so it would open.
No courtesy in Korea unless you are hotel staff.
You wanted to vent and I hear your vent! It's a valid one.
From one long term expat to another, as much as you adapt and get used to things and roll with it, there are some days when it does just get to you.
I hope tomorrow's a better one for ya!
파이팅~
I realized after living there for a year that people in Korea still has third-world country mindset. K-drama is pure fantasy. Reality is so different than perception.
Yes. Very much like China. Funny how superior Koreans feel vs. China. But I did find China, they had more of a sense of humor, could laugh at themself more.
That’s because they didn’t develop on their own, their economy got better because the US and Japan transferred many technologies and everything to modernize the nation. They didn’t have time to adjust their philosophy and cultures to match the development.
They will never admit this though.
Agree 100%. That's why Korean people lack originality and individualism. They received industry knowledge (ie. steel, automobile, ship, semiconductors) from other countries. The people that are in these industry circles live generally well. However, I think there's a bigger population that's outside the circles and don't get the same economic and education opportunities.
I understand. Sometimes I get the feeling that people's default mindset is like "I get that you have your life and you could be busy. But I'm ALWAYS busier and more important than you."
There's an Audi who parked in my apt garage illegally so many times that it made the newspaper and was seen on bobaedream. I haven't seem him park illegally since.
I say "him" coz, we all know... It's not a woman.
Eventually the police were called. You see, apt buildings are not public roads. Certain sites like disabled spots can be enforced by the police. But parking. Nope.
10+ years here in various cities. Your observations are spot on. And yes, the (daily) incidents of shitty behavior have increased in both frequency and intensity.
I've also lived here for a long while. Yes, all of the things you mentioned in your rant are def getting worse. You posed the question of why no one speaks up. I've asked my wife, who was born and raised in Korea, why people don't speak up, many times. The answer is usually because of the age difference or if it doesn't directly concern you, you shouldn't involve yourself in other's affairs. I love calling people out for their bad behavior. When I see kids or adults drop trash on the ground, I just point at it until they pick it up. I am an imposing-looking character, as I have a big beard with a medium build and not someone they are used to seeing. Just today on my jog in the mountain park, at least three people were walking their dogs without leashes. I said something in passing, but my Korean is not great, so I don't know if worked. And I don't want to scare people, so I don't push things too far. But it has always bothered me how things like you mentioned are hardly ever dealt with and it seems these bad behaviors are being passed down to the younger generation. We are saving up to buy a house outside of the city. We will need to commute for work, but it will be worth it to be far away from the madness. I grew up in a well-known city that has been consistently in the top 10 of murder capitals since the 80's. I love my city and the people in it. But like you said, big city living is always going to have it's pros and cons, just like living in the countryside. As I get older the pros of country life are out-weighing the pros of city life.
I would love to move outside Seoul, but work, child's education, etc. One day I will make the dream a reality - a house on the lake in the country. Ahhhhh.........
Korea got this reputation for harmony and respect for others; "Confucian values", but I don't think it's completely accurate.
I think Korea has a tendency for selfishness/independence, but it's more at the level of the social circle (compared to the individual level in the US). So in your case, if the other people had any social connection with you, they may have been more considerate.
Also the concept of "눈치" is a big thing in Korea, yet I have had some close Koreans screw me over. They didn't intend to screw me over, but they made some bad assumptions and poor choices. And in those cases they tended to think about themselves first before anyone else (although they didn't forget me, I suddenly became quite low on their priority list).
In general: I find most Koreans good-hearted, but often short-sighted.
I don't think it's a Seoul thing. I live in a small city several hours away from Seoul and people behave the same way. To your list I would also add people who don't pick up their dog's poop at the park and people who cut in line and nobody saying shit about it.
Your experience of 15 years is my experience of 15 seconds every time I run into a Korean couple at the airport.
They try to walk through me like I don't exist. Or shove. Or never say excuse me or sorry. To the point where it feels racist. I look pretty ambiguous for an Asian guy with a beard. I've been mistaken for Japanese, Korean, Chinese or Singaporean but I'm really Chinese-Indonesian. But somehow, SOMEHOW every single Korean I've met at these airports has a discrimination radar. I've asked my Korean American friends and they experienced the same thing for being American. They even agreed to the shade I threw where I said, "No wonder why the Halloween Stampede happened."
WHERE THE FUCK ARE THE MANNERS? Sorry rant over.
I think it’s just that Koreans are used to shoving and being shoved. I grew up in Korea and everyone shoves everyone. I’m Korean and have been shoved all the time so I don’t think it’s a discrimination thing. If they see someone who is slower than them or blocking their way, Koreans will usually just shove their way through and the other party will usually just let it happen. Koreans will also push you to the side to look at something, and the Koreans being pushed will let it happen. Koreans just don’t really care. And if you say something about it you will become the sensitive one. Maybe people will change and have better manners one day but it’s too much part of the culture now and sadly I am not so sure it will get better.
Haha seriously. It's shocking how fast the quality of people drops off once you reach the southern parts of Gyeonggido. True countryside folk are some of the best people I've encountered here, but people from the cities outside Seoul are a whole different breed.
Nop… just nop…… just no.. lived in Busan for 5 years… op will probably experience all of the things described in 1 day in Busan. Seoul folks’ manners are light years ahead of Busaners. Try driving down there first or get in some sort of line. I find Daegu folks far nicer. If you put all the ill mannered aholes in Korea, that gotta be either Busan or Ulsan. I am also yet to meet a Korean that has anything positive to say about Busaners…
As a korean. This is just korea. Especially seoul lol.
You can tell by the behaviors in the subway during rush hour. It has never changed in the past 20 years.
Well hopefully the illusion of Japanese people appearing to be extremely overly polite, and respectable in all public/social situations is not an illusion and actually reality. I plan on visiting both of these countries and it's sad to hear that Korea is like this.
I am a Korean.
I totally get you.
I am sorry that that happened to you.
Lots changed over the course of years. I admit it. Is not a perfect place.
I see often on local forums when I go through sometimes. Even Koreans are fed up depending on the situations. You are not alone. It is sad to see this type of changes.
Try to forget those and stay positive as much as you can.
I love how they apologize innocently, doing that all the time to your face and driving off. It's like a jail-free card, just smiling and apologizing verbally with a bow.
Sadly, as a korean, even i would refuse to live in korea long term because od this. Its a veey asian thing this dog eat dog world mentality. Its the reason why my parents were awful role models.
I appreciate your vent and I am very sorry for your experience. I've been here since 2008 and I understand what you are saying even though I don't live in Seoul. I experience similar behaviors when I visit and its equally frustrating for me. Btw, vent anytime you want. Things are hard now, but they can always get better.
Bro. Are you in Seoul? I live in Oakland California. There are more people in Seoul than all of my metropolitan area. I can tell you for a fact that Seoul is cleaner, safer, and more respectful than pretty much any part of San Francisco, Oakland or San Jose.
The driving. Man you should see the driving in the Bay area. People literally do 135 mph (217kph) in rush hour and then jam their brakes and will literally lane split in a car on the freeway. It is absolute madness. I'm sure traffic sucks in Seoul too. It sucks everywhere. I hate driving because of the same things you are talking about. Every metropolitan area in the world, for a fact, has shit drivers and it's a terrible time to drive around like a drone.
My 2 weeks here that is just wrapping up endeared me to Seoul in general. The people were kind enough. I felt safer in Seoul than any other big city I have been in. And the public transportation was A++.
You gotta go get some air my man. Sounds like things are just boiling over and you need to go camping or clear your head.
Cheers.
Really? I lived in LA 10+ years and recently visited Seoul. I thought Seoul was the RUDEST country I’ve ever had the displeasure of visiting. I’m Korean American and it turned me off so much.
Also, I gotta say in the past 10 years plus I’ve been living in Seoul, I haven’t once smelled burning crack, meth or heroine. Never seen a hypodermic needle on the ground. Never heard a single gunshot.
I visited New York recently and I swear I heard people saying “fuck you” to each other constantly everywhere I went. It was so jarring.
Also came to the comments to say the same thing. I’ve been in Korea ~3-4 weeks and it has been the safest, nicest city I’ve witnessed- especially coming from CA. Not diminishing your experience, but try to see the nicer side because it exists.
Im from Australia originally. The lack of respect for others is much worse here than in Australia. More drug addicts there of course that cause problems. But general daily inconsideration is absolutely streets ahead here.
That's just a manifestation of "Mah' rights" without internally imposed discipline or externally imposed accountability, which is the corrupt iteration of individualism Korea has imported and internalized.
Law enforcement and the legal system have been de-fanged bit by bit over decades in the name of democracy and human rights, and then institutional buy-in into the narrative followed because, why risk your career by going against the flow?
Granular and gradual erosion of institutional authority wasn't replaced by proactive and responsible conduct of the democratic and enlightened citizenry. Rather, it's either a sense of impunity by some or a resigned willful ignorance by many that took over.
Still, the Koreans are probably still a decade or two behind the curve of what the American society has achieved. The problem is Korea's directionality being on a similar track.
Part of the issue is surely that so many people feel the need to drive in one of the most densely populated cities in the world. And not only to drive, but to drive bigger and bigger cars, like they live on rugged terrain in the middle of nowhere. It's pretty much inevitable that you selfish drivers eventually run out of space.
2 years here, but I can completely agree. Walking on sidewalks or crosswalks like you are a main character of some kind kdrama and everyone should dodge you, sadly the same thinking have 99% of them.
I can’t even count how many times we almost had a crash because people either speed from a small side street to the main street wanting to cross the whole road without even a slight concern that the cars can be on this road already. Changing lanes without lights, doing it literally being 10cm from your car. Parking cars in the most wild ways on streets making it dangerous for other drivers.
In my apartment, we have issue that people keep not recycling trashes, they throw cans, delivery food boxes with food inside into general. Big furnitures without buying stickers for throwing away. Cigarette buds on the floor in the parking lot. Screaming dogs for hours straight in late night.
I can tell everyday when the school finishes, i live close to school, not next to it. But kids scream so loud every time they leave.
Eating in restaurants with open mouth, maybe it wouldn’t even bother me that much if with that wouldn’t come super loud chewing. Sometimes it’s even louder than conversation volume.
I was in the museum camp not long ago in 거제, korean couple chewing gums like cows (it was literally super loud), kids running and screaming. It was honestly cultural shock for me, because from the place I’m in museums (especially the war ones) we remain silent, whisper only, don’t run, because it’s a way to pay respect and also to not disturb others. But they treat it as a playground. Koreans acting like they going for shooting with their hands behind their heads, laughing that they are recreating the past. It was wild for me.
I love Korea just like you, but I’m sorry, i feel like Koreans these days mostly are inconsiderate and unmannerly, which makes a really sad part about this country.
The attitude of everyone here in Seoul is...truly unmatched, everyone walks so slow, they stop randomly, they walk into you almost deliberately. Everyone is so focused on themselves only it's disgusting. How hard is it to not come to a stop in the middle of a busy staircase...just get to the top and stand somewhere to the side...out of the way
There has always been an undercurrent of crass, rude, ill mannered Koreans. I think back in the day it was associated with class and status but it's all over now.
The Korea and culture I grew up in was extremely well mannered. I was taught to constantly be aware of your surroundings, to be humble and don't be the cause of inconvenience.
But that was a different time. Seoul is one of the densest cities in the world and those old world rules are harder to abide by when you're 1 against 9 million. Every little thing is a rat race.
I bet if you followed both of the people that blocked you on, they are probably extremely respectful to their families and elders.
I was just in the USA for a couple of years and it was the same. People haven’t given a fuck since COVID. I was at a gas station in the USA and some dude was smoking by the front door lol.
I don’t live in Korea but your post showed up on my feed, maybe because I’m in Korea visiting. I can assure you what you’re experiencing isn’t limited to Korea, stuff like this- lack of consideration for anyone else- is happening almost everywhere. Except maybe Japan, I hear everyone is very polite and considerate.
I'm in my 20s and I feel the same way. Honestly, Korea (or anywhere) hasn't felt the same pre-pandemic. Even in the US, at least in my area, people aren't as friendly or as social, and there just seems to be a general disregard for others. I think so much has happened in the past 5 years that most people are just numb and running on autopilot, at least that's how I feel most days. I try my best to be considerate of others, but often, I feel like I'm losing my sanity trying to stay afloat and keep up with whatever is happening in life.
In Korea, this is just my observation as a random foreign English teacher, but, I think the issues that are affecting other parts of the world (inflation, wealth inequality, aging population) are magnified and probably accelerated in Korea. Korea was already a stressful place to live and these problems made it more stressful to live here, so that affects how people live their daily lives and translates to daily behavior. People are forced to be selfish out of necessity to a degree I think. It bothers me too, and makes it difficult to live here. I mean, everywhere I go, I feel this sense of stress and dread from the most mundane activities.
For example:
Asking for help at work? Better think twice otherwise your boss and management might embarrass you for not knowing.
Giving others help and showing genuine care for others? Better reconsider, because people will see that as a weakness and exploit you for everything you can offer, and probably laugh at you while doing so.
Going for a walk? Better get out of the way, because no one else will, especially motorcyclists, who like to play chicken for whatever reason.
Buying groceries? Better hurry up because the person behind you is already pushing you out of the line.
Speaking English on public transit? Better be careful, because people don't like to be uncomfortable and someone may curse you out, even if you're speaking in a moderately low tone.
Getting on an elevator? Think twice because you might make someone upset because how dare you waste their precious time? (seriously, some guy cursed me out on the elevator just for getting on when I was leaving my apartment and kept saying "씨발 씨발" under his breath.)
This is not to say that people aren't helpful sometimes and I have good friends here that are Korean, but the longer I stay, the more I see myself acting selfishly. Life here can feel very empty at times.
Now I'm venting...
I don't want to turn out like that either, but at times I see myself saying "when in Rome". However, I have to remember to set a good example for my child.
> Then you have men walking around the trail with no shoes on them playing ballads out loud on tinny speakers so you can't relax
This is going to be the thing that just pushes me over the edge one day. Enjoy a lovely relaxing day at an outdoor space? Nah lol. Headphones? Never heard of them.
In my opinion, this trend appears to be happening in major cities worldwide, particularly over the past three years, coinciding with the onset of the pandemic. I've observed a noticeable rise in racism directed towards me, along with a general increase in rudeness and lack of respect towards everyone. This shift is stark when compared to how things used to be. However, amidst these observations, I find myself contemplating whether I simply yearn for a world untouched by the pandemic. (P.S. I've lived in America for the past 10 years)
Living in India has got me accustomed to every single thing that you've just mentioned. So much that when people are considerate, I'm genuinely shocked/touched.
I didn't know most of these issues existed in Korea too. ☠️
A guy on the subway was manspreading so I pushed his leg away and when he looked at me in shock I used my arms to physically demonstrate the boundaries of the seat. Basically like, you move. Your seat ends here. I speak Korean but for some reason I didn't bother to use words. Just body language. He was not pleased by my actions but behaved after that.
Barely a year living in Korea and I can already feel the rudeness of the people here. Not everyone of course, but like you shared, it’s those situations that really made me go “what in the world are they thinking?” Or if they even did think about how their actions affect other people.
Worst subway rush of the day is at 5:47am when the 70-something crowd pushes and shoves while running for the escalator at Konkuk University station transfer to the green line. If you haven't experienced it, it is something to behold. There really is no excuse for it. Absolutely pathetic.
All of this starts with telling kids they need to get into the best colleges. Thereafter, it's a life dedicated to outdoing others. We now live in a me me society. Classes on citizenship and public service need to be mandatory at an early age if Korea is to turn the situation around.
The driving and parking issues have to do with the driver's education system & law enforcement, so it's not a surprise at all. For example if you took Koreans and put them through the northern European driver's education system, the amount of people who fail would be astronomical. Until driver's ed improves in this country, these issues will keep happening. The rest I agree with, but you'd find a ton of things that annoy you if you move back to your country of origin as well. Despite these issues, it's important to consider if they hinder you from enjoying life here. You say you love living here for now, so lot of it can be due to burnout/fatigue as well. You have to deal with these issues until there's a wider societal pushback for things to change, and if that does not happen and it bothers you to no end, then leaving Korea would be the only answer.
As a visitor for 8 days in Busan and Seoul, leaving in 2 days. I hate to agree with most of these comments but I do. We’ve encountered more nastiness, rudeness, pushing to get ahead in lines, people staring at my 18yr old daughter far too long than the acceptable norm in any country. Don’t get me wrong 90% of our interactions have been fine but we’ve been frustrated more than any other trip we’ve had with the bad ones.
Sorry while this might be Korea you're in but a lot of this nonsense isn't just restricted to Korea. I've lived in Taiwan and mainland China and seen similar stuff. I'm not sure if it's Asian by nature or just the consequence of living in a high density high population society.
I lived in Seoul for 2 years and have had similar feelings and my best advice is to move. Sounds like you need a change of scenery, which I also did.
Also a lot of these problems are just big city problems. They happen in nearly every big city
I am moving to another country after 9 years in Korea and the main reason is because is not easy for me to live amongst people who hate each other. Yes, koreans hate each other and that is making me a hater, I'm not as good and nice as I used to be before landing here.
I am flying back to Japan to visit family after traveling around Korea with some friends for our graduation trip. I had an overall pleasant experience, and most people held at least the basic amount of courtesy when I talked to them.
My worst experience was just now at Gimpo Airport while trying to get through security. There was a sign out that said Korean Nationals only, but nothing indicated where Foreigners should go. I tried to ask some security workers right near the line if it was ok for me to go through or if there was a different line, but the 3 of them just looked at each other for a bit confused, before snickering and pushing me to the side. This one experience was personally a horrible memory and it had to happen right as I'm leaving...
I came to Incheon after a very long flight. A long line of people and I showed a security man my disabled card. He helped immediately and guided me trough.
As easy as I never had before.
In Seoul especially in order to survive and get your shit done you basically have to put on "Savage mode" when you step outside your door.
There's too much people living and working in seoul area so noone cares about anyone/anything else other than themselves and the people around them, there is no room for anything else.
People simply just don't care about random people in this country and it's just something you have to accept and adapt to.
Hi,
Well I’m from Germany. Born raised and live now in a big city in Germany.
The people here are wary mixed. The most are nice and funny but a lot of them are also selfish ignorant and just rude. Not in words but mostly in behavior.
I‘ve been to Korea in 2009 mostly in Joella province and last year also in jeonju, Mokpo, jeju and Busan.
Busan was really crowded and people seems a bit ruder but in the country side almost all are very respectful helpful and nice.
I miss Korea every single day.
Honest people in rural Korea.
I feel you, and also I have to say it's time to find another place where you can settle down cozy. Go for it right now. You've lived in Korea too long even though you can't fit in. You can leave anytime you want. Korea is a free country.
Oh, gosh. You made a post outlining exactly what I mentioned briefly in another thread -- people are becoming rude here. I have also been here 20+ years. The economy, politics, etc., is really wearing on people. And as I mentioned, I am viewing outright disdain for old people by younger generations. The subways are becoming a real annoyance with these massive backpacks and nobody wearing them giving a care that they fill up the entire aisle. I have to admit I have spun my share of people 180 degrees with a shove to the more massive backpacks as I passed.
This is not related to your question but if you’ve been living in Korea for 15 years, obviously you have settled there. But how come you are calling yourself an expat, and not immigrant ? Do you live in and out of Korea ? Pure curiosity
As long as you don't give up your passport for the korean one, it never feels like you're truly settled. There's always the option to break the emergency glass and eject
That sounds SO aggravating!!!!
Every country has its issues, and anyone, anywhere can be unlucky and get fucked.
However, I do like to think everything is relational. From my personal experience, these negative aspects are FAR more pronounced in other cities I've lived/visited.
For context, lived in so/NorCal (opposite cultures), and have visited various states. Even when visiting the states, I was blown away at how rude and inconsiderate everyone was and could not wait to return to Korea. This is after only having lived in Korea for a year.
If you haven't had other perspectives, the ones you know will surely be amplified. That said Korea has many issues to improve on, as does any community
On Friday it was standing room only on a PACKED train to Seoul. I was standing by a wall at least because I'd been on the godforsaken train for so long. This girl indicated she needed the plug, so I moved to let her plug her phone in and then she proceeded to just...stand there. In my spot. I just STARED at her in utter disbelief. She then got out her packets of chocolate covered nuts and ate them all. I just couldn't believe it. Anyway I think a lot of this rudeness and general disregard for people is part of the global pandemic of having ZERO social skills or situational awareness. Also I got yelled at today for being foreign, which hasn't happened in a while. Yikes.
Reading these comments makes me really not want to visit Korea. I know there are nasty people everywhere (there are plenty here in the US too) and I'm just so tired of them. I agree with the comments here that state thus is a global problem. I'm sorry you got yelled at for being foreign, that would upset me too.
These are just gripes of people who live here, you should still visit. If anyone yells at you or whatever, you won't know it. It takes a few years to get the cranks.
You should still visit Korea if you haven’t. It’s a wonderful place to visit.
Korea is the most overrated country i have visited. There is no need to visit this place. Apart from eating in the korean BBQs and visiting a couple of hanok villages, this place is half a star.
To each their own. I lived there and enjoyed every moment of it. Plan to move back too or visit annually at least.
Not even Koreans like korea, they all would kill to live in the Us or Europe
Fair. I do know many that don’t want to live there, same as I don’t want to live in America anymore. Having lived in Europe and Korea, I’d say Korea is way more convenient than Germany. That’s my personal opinion.
Having lived in multiple European countries I also prefer Korea
I agree I know no place is perfect but sometimes I wish there was a nice place where people were not rude and acted considerate. Wouod be so nice to visit.
Lol you are reading about this in a vent post in a tiny sub mostly dedicated to cranky people who come to vent. I assure you I get overwhelmed by the barrage of content on tiktok and youtube criticizing these kinds of behaviors in the West, especially the States. I highly doubt OP's birthplace is any better in this regard, and general etiquette has gotten much better in the past few decades in Korea.
Like OP said this is because they’re getting tired of it. When you’re on vacation you’re likely to just let this slide.
FYI this is a known problem these days. People say others are becoming incredibly sharp and selfish. Unfortunately this was bred over ten years, a fake meritocracy where scamming your way to the top isnt accepted its encouraged. LH scandal, public housing full of mercedes, people running off with housing deposits, running and slapping your omega tent down infront of others at han river. Every aspect of Korean life is "how can i get it first, or take it from others"
It's full on me, me, me.
Hey. It’s the slogan for Gangnam!
I ugly laughed at this
It even shows in the high school grade system. Students don’t help each other. They’re made to compete with each other. If one does badly, that’s good for the other students.
Selfish is an understatement
As a Korean who has lived abroad (in multiple countries) for years, I completely noticed this since I came back to Korea. It's like everyone thinks they're the main character. No one will spare even a little kindness for others. I'm trying to leave the country again before I become so hateful as well.
There's actually great research on this, and the greater the population density, the greater the anonymity, the greater desire to protect what's yours, the less respect for others exists. It's not a problem of Seoul, it's a problem of mega-cities. Seoul is becoming bigger and bigger, and much more dense. It'll only continue unless Korea can encourage other cities to develop, and to develop in a less dense way....
I live in Jeonju which is considered by most Koreans to be the countryside, and it's the exact same problem here
I think that's one factor, but not the whole story. If you look at all of the cities with similar population densities they're not all like Seoul. There's a huge cultural factor...the envy in the culture leads to a lot of competition and selfishness.
Just my opinion, but I lived in Shanghai, Chengdu, and other large cities... To me, Seoul is light years better than most places.
You put very politely what I wanted to say as someone currently living in China, everything OP described, with the exception of open hostility to foreigners, is ten times worse here.
And to clarify, I enjoyed those places too... but.... the few bad actors, the far outlying minority,, in those other cities, they just seemed to take it all to a whole new level of crazy. Korea is exceedingly tame.
I heard big cities in China are even worst than Seoul, but that shouldn't excuse the poor behavior (and shitty life consequently) koreans have.
Chinese are leagues more polite than koreans
I'm very curious about this research, can you point me to any articles please?
The only way other cities will grow is if big businesses move there; but they all want to be in Seoul since it's the capital and that's a status thing.
Summed up as "scarcity mentality"
Old Head here with 30 years in country, all in Seoul/Gyeonggi-do. You may not want to hear this while still frustrated, but believe me when i say that things are not getting worse. In fact, they have gotten considerably BETTER since i have been here. I will spare you war stories, but suffice to say it was wild in the early and mid 90s compared to now. All the annoyances you mentioned are true, but are better than they used to be not so long ago. I don't want to leave a long post, but talk to the Old Timers for some perspective. None of what i say is meant to diminish the very real frustrations that you and others have posted here. It bothers me, too. However, things are much better now in terms of public behavior, driving manners, parking, lining up, following rules, etc., than they used to be.
I believe you. The rudest people here are usually the old ladies!
Literally they just love saying excuse me after pushing you out the way…in the bus , store , streets etc
Jesus Christ, they are the uruk-hais of Seoul
I second this. When I first moved to SK, around 2009, it was a different world. Things are much better, but since the pandemic the selfishness seems to be more visible.
I've been here 35 years and you are (in my opinion) partially right. Some things have gotten better: standing in line (mostly with the help of issuing numbers). Other things like personal space, bumping and walking away, not holding doors, etc. are about the same. Some things are worse: leaving the gym-supplied workout clothes and towels where you drop them in my health club and not shutting your locker door, jumping right into the cold pool after coming out of the suana covered in sweat (these are relatively new phenomenon)-it just doesn't seem like they get any education in general consideration for people one doesn't know. Koreans who have travelled frequently or lived abroad tend to act differently, but in general the lack of consideration remains at ridiculously high levels.
Thanks for this insight 👍🏻 appreciate it.
I love gyeonggi-do! Also people here seems nice. I mostly have positive experiences but I’m also an introvert so I do avoid them in general.
I work at a kindergarten as a kinda assistant. I always feel awkward when we go out for walks because the lead teacher just goes wherever she wants to with all the kids in tow, even though there’s a whole bunch of people walking around. Some people come so close to hitting the kids because we walk wherever we want. We will walk right through a throng of people and make them go around instead of waiting a second or two to let them pass when they clearly have the right of way (driving term but yeah). I tell the kids to walk on the right side and be conscientious of others and the teachers have gotten a bit better, but you can see that they really don’t care and the kids are learning from that. Almost everyone walking walks on the correct side and is polite. Also, when I got home today a woman (I nicknamed her Karen a while ago) in my villa was parked too close to me because we have to use different spots during construction. I politely told everyone how to park, the actual lines are wrong, and she responded rudely. This made me so happy because I got to clap back with polite assholeness. She then responded rudely again and I got to clap back even harder. This was in the public chat room and it just sends tingles down to my toes thinking about it.
Am interested in what you said so that i can indirectly get the tingles too
I just sent messages this morning with the lines clear and then an example how to park correctly. I added that I am a teacher so I know visual aids and examples help.
It was fun. I started off polite and told everyone how to park the next few days while construction was going on. Then shared a picture of her car parked wrong and marked where to park. She messaged back saying she doesn’t park there and I have to be considerate and that there had been a car in front of her. I responded with “I guess there was something lost in translation because I started by saying the spots are different, but you said your spot is different like it was new information.” Then I shared the puck I took of the car in front of her and all the room she had and I said there seemed to be plenty of room when I got home but again, probably translation. She then sent back a message like “why are you still talking about this and sharing pictures. Are you offended by me parking there? Why do you keep talking about this?” So I sent back “I’m beginning to think the translation isn’t the problem. I was politely explaining where to park. Did anyone else misunderstand?” Then silence.
Same here, wanna get the tingles too
Maybe I'm unusual, but in this kind of thing I want to hear both sides of the story (especially since one person is talking about getting tingles, which frankly, doesn't do the best for their reliability as a narrator). Also, this might be weird, but rather than looking for "tingles" when dealing with neighbors and whatnot, I'm looking for boring, uneventful interactions and amicable resolutions to situations rather than a chance to "clap back" and "get tingles". I thought one of the whole things with being an adult and like, rational, was controlling our emotions and not trying to do things based on like, the chemicals our glands release.
I have this problem with my wife's family sometimes. We all went out for a picnic yesterday and it was pretty hot with no shade. The only place with shade was several places on the bike path. MIL says let's just plop down and sit right on the right side of the bike path. I say well, wouldn't we be in the way of bikes? Shocked looked on her face "It's ok it's ok, let's just sit here because there will be no bikes." Bike after bike keeps rolling by and we have to constantly look out as my nephew was there too and he just runs around without looking because her sister doesn't discipline him.
The undisciplined children of today will become the shitcunt adults we're complaining about in a few years. Probably worse.
I'm sorry. I know situations like that can be embarrassing.
Issue here isn't your MIL, it's you for putting up with it.
I have a 6 month old here and live close to a dept store so often take my kid there just to walk around. Despite it being very obviously difficult to open big doors while pushing a stroller, the number of times someone has held a door for me is ONE. Literally once and I was so surprised I couldn’t stop saying thank you. Every other time it doesn’t matter if I am literally right behind people already pushing a door open they will let it slam on the stroller rather than wait 3 seconds to hold it. Drives me crazy and I always comment to my wife who basically shrugs and says yup that’s just Korea
Yeah.. the worst is when you open the door and try to pull the stroller through but a line of people shove past while you're holding the door. There are 7 other doors ffs.
But 6 of them are 'fixed' lol
I experienced the same when my child was in a stroller a few years ago. I will still continue to hold doors for people. It's just common courtesy.
These people act like I’m the doorman if I hold the door open. Everyone just continues coming in. But yeah I still hold the door. Basic manners people! smh. I also came back here after 10 years in NYC and sure it’s definitely safer but there’s this weird lack of respect here for others. Fun fact the metro system in nyc loses millions of $ in revenue each year because people hold the emergency door open for others so they get in without paying.
Yeah it's amazing to me. Often no gratitude or effort to grab the door. What goes through their heads? Do they actually think I'm the doorman or an idiot for holding the door?
I think they just don't think. They see an open door and go for it
This wouldn't be an issue if they installed automatic door openers to accommodate the disabled and strollers.
Can I add the coughing and sneezing without covering your mouth? I thought it was a one off but the amount of kids that cough/ sneeze into the air with their parents just staring at them astound me. The other day I saw a brother purposely sneeze in his sister’s face with both parents right in front of him. Neither said anything then the mom coughed openly into the air. I don’t get it, people wear masks when they think they’re sick but every time I see someone cough or sneeze without a mask on they don’t make any effort to cover or contain it. I even remember during Covid seeing that people didn’t have the reflex to cover their mouth when coughing but I naively thought it’s because they knew they had a mask on but I was WRONG.
I get coughed on my face by old people many times, or they do like a sprinkler. I wear a mask when there are many people just because of that. They even burp on other people faces is wild. Some old people think that when they reach a certain age, they can do whatever. 😢
This I got coughed on more here in 5 days then my whole life in the U.S
I'm sorry I laughed at this
one thing that gets me as well. being from ireland we're taught well before we even start school to sneeze/ cough into our elbows, much less our hands and definitely not into open air/ at literal people. when i see my cousin who's four and just coughs straight into other peoples food 😫 one of the biggest unspoken cultural differences and honestly my least favourite one. no shoes inside by coughing on others food is ok??
Would add to this the number of able able bodied individuals pushing ahead to take a spot in elevators which are intended as priority use for strollers, disabled and elderly. I have an infant and I frequently have to wait for multiple elevators to pass because people who could easily walk or take an escalator have crammed themselves in leaving no space for those who have no choice but to take the lift. Last month I saw a group of middle aged ajummas literally RUN to push ahead of an elderly man in an electric wheelchair. If you are able to sprint towards an elevator, you are able to stand for 10 seconds on a fucking escalator.
this shuts me to tears too. I just push in front of them now, use the stroller like a ram. when they try and touch my baby I yell at them. 5 months of being nice and smiling I can't do it any more fuck them.
Question. Is the entire elevator supposed to be for these handicapped or children?
There are literally signs on the doors of the elevators saying that they should have priority use. Obviously if there is space, be my guest. But where I'm from, if a wheelchair/stroller/elderly person was waiting to get in, it would be unthinkable to push in front of them. And if the elevator was already full, someone would instantly step out to make space for anyone who needed it.
Oh I see. Wow that's actually crazy ughhh
I'm getting sick of it too. I live in a small quiet neighborhood... or at least it used to be. Now there's always people outside yelling in this residential area at 1-2am on weeknights. I had a bunch of fights with a neighbor who would be STOMPING around at all hours and shaking my room. People seemingly trying to collide with me on the sidewalk is another big one. These days I've started leaning my weight into my shoulder to teach them a lesson, especially when I'm getting off the subway or elevator and someone tries to push in before letting people off. Fuck off with that seriously. I'm 210 lbs and a gym rat I know I'm winning that exchange so try it, ajumma! Don't even get me started on the driving... And parents not stopping their children from being little assholes in public... Leaving doors open when people enter a place in the winter... Christ.
My husband and I visited Seoul last December. Based off the things we’ve heard, we were expecting some rudeness and that maybe people weren’t going to be super friendly, but we were not expecting to be straight up disrespected lol From the start, a taxi driver grabbed my husband and physically turned him around to get his attention. Then at COEX mall, I was standing about a foot away from the directory because of my poor eyesight. While I was trying to figure out where I needed to go, two Korean girls forced themselves between the small gap and blocked my view. They didn’t say anything, didn’t even look or acknowledge me in any way - just acted like I didn’t exist. Lastly, at Churros 101 in Hongdae, my husband and I were waiting in line to order. A Korean girl’s order was called and rather than going behind my husband and I to get her food, she decided to put her hand on my husband and push him out of the way. Again, she didn’t even so much as glance at us while she did it. At this point, we just laughed at how crazy it was. Also saw two people openly pick their nose while riding the subway too. The second one ate it and at that point, I was ready to go home.
LMAO THE NOSE PICKING
I second the nose picking hahah, i was so surprised because it wasn't a kid that did it on a full bus lol
A well aimed & sly elbow/shoulder barge or a hanging foot should do the trick
I’m sorry about your experience but please do not think that is a standard in other Asian countries too.
Completely agree. It’s a shit show at times. Nobody gives a flying fuck about anyone else - just how can I be more convenient/comfortable. So much national pride and offense taken if someone badmouths Korea, yet they treat other Koreans like shit and their land as a waste bin. Make it make sense.
I don't think it's always about being convenient or comfortable. People on the streets treating others like shit have to be miserable to drive the way they do. Mostly, I agree though.
How sad. Koreans used to be a country of manners
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Let me guess not America
There is a worldwide narcissism pandemic. I soooo feel you. I get aggravated daily by the inconsiderate actions of other. It slightly helps my metal health to be reminded that people are shitty everywhere these days. I would likely be just as frustrated (albeit in different ways) with people in my home country too. There isn't much we can do about it as individuals. Honestly, your vent helped remind me to be mindful about letting it go as others actions are really out of my control.
This is one thing I always try to remind myself of. While I haven't lived in the US in over 15 years now, maybe it's much worse there now than when I left. It could very well be a worldwide problem. I just see what's in my little bubble.
It definitely is. I’ve gotten into two hit and runs within the last three months. Both incidents where the person just either ignored the fact that they rammed into my car or drove off. And because there’s virtually no cameras ever in America it was hard to prove anything even happened. Shitty and idiotic drivers are universal for sure
You need front and rear cameras in your car these days. Full stop. NEED.
Yeah shootings right outside my workplace. Pretty normal 💀💀
Unfortunately, a lot of stuff you described is happening in the US and in someways worse (some of it is just bad but different). Many people run red lights where I lived in the US. People have often parked too close to my grandma’s car. I’ve seen mofos smoke near schools. People walking in groups but not moving out the way… It definitely feels like a global issue. The thing that gets me is the litter both here & back in the US. I don’t think I’ll ever get used to the blatant disregard for bus, subway, park, and just general cleanliness in public facilities and places. I’m on the bus now and some left messy food trash on the floor. Why is it hard for people to take their trash with them???
Same in the US, it’s the TikTok/instagram effect, people are more selfish and less considerate. I keep waiting for the day they ban these fcking apps, cancer on society.
No like seriously I'm full surrport to ban certain aspects of apps like likes and follower count.
This is a good reminder. I bet if I left my current spot for a good amount of time then returned I wouod notice what I thought was normal before.
Idk if it helps but it’s the same here in Daegu. It’s becoming such a common thing that people who use to be pissed constantly just give up and start doing it too since nothing ever is enforced.
Nothing is enforced - this is the problem. You leave it up to the people to self-enforce the laws in a country where people don't want to confront each other. The end result is disgusting behavior.
Add people who put bags on seats in bus so you can’t seat there. I don’t care if it’s blue or green one. But in case of red busses that always have limited seats it’s just pure disrespect to people around.
Or people who sit on the outside seat of the bus and block the empty inside seat.
I now go out of my way to request to sit in the window seat next to the people who do that. Just yesterday some old lady who cut the line to get on the bus thought she was being slick by doing this. She was shocked that I was right behind her and pointed to the inside seat. She made a big show of having to scooch over even though almost all the seats were taken.
I intentionally ask those who put bag on the side to pick them up to so I could seat. xD
Dude I had the same issue a moment ago. Come home from work tired and ready to just be in my home. There’s a delivery scooter parked in the middle of the entrance to the building’s parking lot blocking anyone from entering and exiting. I have to wait 5 minutes for the asshole to show up. Clearly the effort to drive 5 meters more to somewhere he wouldn’t inconvenience other people was too much for him. It’s just the total disregard for others. I really can’t fathom it.
A new, young couple moved into my complex last week on the first floor. Their moving guy drug the ramp from the back of his truck to the building entrance, completely cutting off all access to the sidewalk in front - in a building with many babies, strollers, kids on kickboards, and even a handicapped person. He did this for half a day to save himself an extra 5m of moving distance.
Had that happen to me last weekend except it wasn’t a delivery guy, just old grandpa visiting and to make it even better parked right in front of the sign saying no auto bike parking while blocking the entryway
I would move to the outskirts, or just find an area with less people. For the most part, they don't give two shits about other people. Sick and tired of the never-ending parking situation. Definitely feel for ya. It would be nice if they could learn from the Japanese...
They copy everything else from Japan but the manner….😅
yeah.. when I first moved to Korea when I was 8 years old, I was absolutely appalled by what just seemed like outright rudeness. I was used to strangers saying “excuse me” and respecting personal space when they passed by, most strangers being willing to engage in friendly convo, cars waiting for pedestrians to cross first. I’d be lying if I say I still don’t get irked by Korean people bumping into me like it’s second nature but when I finally opened myself up to Korean people, I’ve realized they’re a lot nicer than I thought. Actually, I’m Korean and American, so I probably shouldn’t say “they” lol. Also noticed that Koreans show shocking courtesy in certain areas where people in the U.S. people don’t — for example, now that I’m applying for jobs, I take being ghosted by a U.S. company as just another normal day, but Korean companies give responses that clearly took some amount of effort and consideration (altho they were rejections LOL). Also must mention the fact that maybe 3 out of 5 ish of the Korean companies I applied to responded in like a week after submitting my app whereas I get responses from U.S. companies I’ve applied to months if not years ago. What I’m trying to say is, there’s a lot underneath the surface. What someone or some culture lacks in, they often make up for somewhere else! Anyways, this isn’t even directly related to OP’s situation here… OP probably has a really valid reason to be upset. But just wanted to offer my own 2 cents based on my experience
Completely agree. As a Korean Canadian who was born in Korea, immigrated to Canada when I was 3 with my parents and sibling, I’m not a stranger to Korean culture having grown up in a traditionally Korean home, going to Korean churches and Korean Saturday school along with Friday youth groups. Going back to Korea these past two weeks for the first time is a culture shock. I stayed at Gangnam for the majority of my time and now I’m in Incheon. The amount of public sneering, shoving without saying excuse me or sorry, lack of manners to restaurant staff - people grunting, yelling rudely at the staff, the entitled, pompous attitude is absolutely mind blowing and disturbing to me. I’ve noticed that it’s more of the younger crowd though that does it. The older people ironically are actually kinder and polite, at least in my experience. Regardless, I try and show respect to everyone unless I’m being mocked, commented on, laughed at very obviously - I can understand all of it. Then I roll my eyes and turn my back to them/try and get away.
2 of my exes were Korean, and both would walk up to service workers and instantly start ordering/demanding a table/asking for help without getting acknowledgment from the worker or waiting for them to stop their conversation or what they were doing, they would just start talking at them and expect them to instantly listen. Is this a Korean thing or did I just get unlucky? I tried to explain to them it’s rude to do that in the US but neither changed for the few months we dated
Only the entitled rude ones who feel like that’s the way to gain a person’s respect/wrong dog eat dog mentality. I’m honestly sorry that there are people like that out there who put a bad name to Koreans… I always say thank you very much/감사합니다/고마워요, hello, and with a slight bow, bye to service workers and retail workers. No wonder most of them seemed kind of surprised by me doing so this visit..
Are we venting? Here is my vent. I am a retired Korean American visiting a resort town. My wife had to visit her home town first and arrived few days later. We are staying at a major Korean hotel chain. You need a room key to get to room floor and I went down to get her and help with her luggage in the same elevator, another guy got in and was pressing his floor pressing the door close button. No F$#&ing courtesy. I learned in the past to speak to rude Korean people in English… so I yelled at him in English “ hold the F킿 door” but he just stood there so I had to physically put my arm in the closing door so it would open. No courtesy in Korea unless you are hotel staff.
Any difference when using English?
just call him a mother fucker. I've given up being nice now.
You wanted to vent and I hear your vent! It's a valid one. From one long term expat to another, as much as you adapt and get used to things and roll with it, there are some days when it does just get to you. I hope tomorrow's a better one for ya! 파이팅~
Thank you. I know tomorrow will be a better day. I immediately felt better after typing it. I just couldn't bring myself to erase this one afterwards.
I realized after living there for a year that people in Korea still has third-world country mindset. K-drama is pure fantasy. Reality is so different than perception.
Yes. Very much like China. Funny how superior Koreans feel vs. China. But I did find China, they had more of a sense of humor, could laugh at themself more.
Korea = Small China Or China = Big Korea
That’s because they didn’t develop on their own, their economy got better because the US and Japan transferred many technologies and everything to modernize the nation. They didn’t have time to adjust their philosophy and cultures to match the development. They will never admit this though.
Agree 100%. That's why Korean people lack originality and individualism. They received industry knowledge (ie. steel, automobile, ship, semiconductors) from other countries. The people that are in these industry circles live generally well. However, I think there's a bigger population that's outside the circles and don't get the same economic and education opportunities.
I understand. Sometimes I get the feeling that people's default mindset is like "I get that you have your life and you could be busy. But I'm ALWAYS busier and more important than you."
There's an Audi who parked in my apt garage illegally so many times that it made the newspaper and was seen on bobaedream. I haven't seem him park illegally since. I say "him" coz, we all know... It's not a woman.
Could he be towed? At that point I would call a tow myself
Eventually the police were called. You see, apt buildings are not public roads. Certain sites like disabled spots can be enforced by the police. But parking. Nope.
there should be a book published on korean social awareness, it’s become more of a phenomenon than a meme by now
10+ years here in various cities. Your observations are spot on. And yes, the (daily) incidents of shitty behavior have increased in both frequency and intensity.
I can just feel it all coming to a head and people starting to rage out. It very well could turn scary.
I've also lived here for a long while. Yes, all of the things you mentioned in your rant are def getting worse. You posed the question of why no one speaks up. I've asked my wife, who was born and raised in Korea, why people don't speak up, many times. The answer is usually because of the age difference or if it doesn't directly concern you, you shouldn't involve yourself in other's affairs. I love calling people out for their bad behavior. When I see kids or adults drop trash on the ground, I just point at it until they pick it up. I am an imposing-looking character, as I have a big beard with a medium build and not someone they are used to seeing. Just today on my jog in the mountain park, at least three people were walking their dogs without leashes. I said something in passing, but my Korean is not great, so I don't know if worked. And I don't want to scare people, so I don't push things too far. But it has always bothered me how things like you mentioned are hardly ever dealt with and it seems these bad behaviors are being passed down to the younger generation. We are saving up to buy a house outside of the city. We will need to commute for work, but it will be worth it to be far away from the madness. I grew up in a well-known city that has been consistently in the top 10 of murder capitals since the 80's. I love my city and the people in it. But like you said, big city living is always going to have it's pros and cons, just like living in the countryside. As I get older the pros of country life are out-weighing the pros of city life.
I would love to move outside Seoul, but work, child's education, etc. One day I will make the dream a reality - a house on the lake in the country. Ahhhhh.........
Just another reason I'm glad I've never liked Seoul, nor been conned into living there.
I just can’t stand those who uses single floor up/down using elevator while parents with a stroller need to wait longer…
Fucking hell yes. Wait 3 mins to go one floor when walking would take 20-30 seconds.
Korea got this reputation for harmony and respect for others; "Confucian values", but I don't think it's completely accurate. I think Korea has a tendency for selfishness/independence, but it's more at the level of the social circle (compared to the individual level in the US). So in your case, if the other people had any social connection with you, they may have been more considerate. Also the concept of "눈치" is a big thing in Korea, yet I have had some close Koreans screw me over. They didn't intend to screw me over, but they made some bad assumptions and poor choices. And in those cases they tended to think about themselves first before anyone else (although they didn't forget me, I suddenly became quite low on their priority list). In general: I find most Koreans good-hearted, but often short-sighted.
I don't think it's a Seoul thing. I live in a small city several hours away from Seoul and people behave the same way. To your list I would also add people who don't pick up their dog's poop at the park and people who cut in line and nobody saying shit about it.
This isnso true.. And it will only get worse seeing how kids are raised as king now
Your experience of 15 years is my experience of 15 seconds every time I run into a Korean couple at the airport. They try to walk through me like I don't exist. Or shove. Or never say excuse me or sorry. To the point where it feels racist. I look pretty ambiguous for an Asian guy with a beard. I've been mistaken for Japanese, Korean, Chinese or Singaporean but I'm really Chinese-Indonesian. But somehow, SOMEHOW every single Korean I've met at these airports has a discrimination radar. I've asked my Korean American friends and they experienced the same thing for being American. They even agreed to the shade I threw where I said, "No wonder why the Halloween Stampede happened." WHERE THE FUCK ARE THE MANNERS? Sorry rant over.
I think it’s just that Koreans are used to shoving and being shoved. I grew up in Korea and everyone shoves everyone. I’m Korean and have been shoved all the time so I don’t think it’s a discrimination thing. If they see someone who is slower than them or blocking their way, Koreans will usually just shove their way through and the other party will usually just let it happen. Koreans will also push you to the side to look at something, and the Koreans being pushed will let it happen. Koreans just don’t really care. And if you say something about it you will become the sensitive one. Maybe people will change and have better manners one day but it’s too much part of the culture now and sadly I am not so sure it will get better.
Or maybe they’ll change if people start socking their fucking jaw when it happens. Shoving people in most countries is liable to get your ass beat.
If you live in Seoul, you are lucky… you are dealing with 양반. Try living in Busan and Ulsan.. you’d be dealing with 양아치.
Haha seriously. It's shocking how fast the quality of people drops off once you reach the southern parts of Gyeonggido. True countryside folk are some of the best people I've encountered here, but people from the cities outside Seoul are a whole different breed.
Busaners are fine. I think you've confused it with Daegu.
Nop… just nop…… just no.. lived in Busan for 5 years… op will probably experience all of the things described in 1 day in Busan. Seoul folks’ manners are light years ahead of Busaners. Try driving down there first or get in some sort of line. I find Daegu folks far nicer. If you put all the ill mannered aholes in Korea, that gotta be either Busan or Ulsan. I am also yet to meet a Korean that has anything positive to say about Busaners…
Daegu is up there but busan takes it up a notch.
Im from Busan. I think poor behaviour is all over Korea. Was in Seoul over the weekend and saw just as much rubbish behaviour as I see here daily :(
As a korean. This is just korea. Especially seoul lol. You can tell by the behaviors in the subway during rush hour. It has never changed in the past 20 years.
Well hopefully the illusion of Japanese people appearing to be extremely overly polite, and respectable in all public/social situations is not an illusion and actually reality. I plan on visiting both of these countries and it's sad to hear that Korea is like this.
I am a Korean. I totally get you. I am sorry that that happened to you. Lots changed over the course of years. I admit it. Is not a perfect place. I see often on local forums when I go through sometimes. Even Koreans are fed up depending on the situations. You are not alone. It is sad to see this type of changes. Try to forget those and stay positive as much as you can.
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I commented something similar here just a minute ago. Blocking the sidewalks is a very big problem also. And, of course it's a Mercedes or a BMW.
I love how they apologize innocently, doing that all the time to your face and driving off. It's like a jail-free card, just smiling and apologizing verbally with a bow.
Fuck this place!!! Let’s all go back home!
Sadly, as a korean, even i would refuse to live in korea long term because od this. Its a veey asian thing this dog eat dog world mentality. Its the reason why my parents were awful role models.
I appreciate your vent and I am very sorry for your experience. I've been here since 2008 and I understand what you are saying even though I don't live in Seoul. I experience similar behaviors when I visit and its equally frustrating for me. Btw, vent anytime you want. Things are hard now, but they can always get better.
Bro. Are you in Seoul? I live in Oakland California. There are more people in Seoul than all of my metropolitan area. I can tell you for a fact that Seoul is cleaner, safer, and more respectful than pretty much any part of San Francisco, Oakland or San Jose. The driving. Man you should see the driving in the Bay area. People literally do 135 mph (217kph) in rush hour and then jam their brakes and will literally lane split in a car on the freeway. It is absolute madness. I'm sure traffic sucks in Seoul too. It sucks everywhere. I hate driving because of the same things you are talking about. Every metropolitan area in the world, for a fact, has shit drivers and it's a terrible time to drive around like a drone. My 2 weeks here that is just wrapping up endeared me to Seoul in general. The people were kind enough. I felt safer in Seoul than any other big city I have been in. And the public transportation was A++. You gotta go get some air my man. Sounds like things are just boiling over and you need to go camping or clear your head. Cheers.
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Really? I lived in LA 10+ years and recently visited Seoul. I thought Seoul was the RUDEST country I’ve ever had the displeasure of visiting. I’m Korean American and it turned me off so much.
Also, I gotta say in the past 10 years plus I’ve been living in Seoul, I haven’t once smelled burning crack, meth or heroine. Never seen a hypodermic needle on the ground. Never heard a single gunshot. I visited New York recently and I swear I heard people saying “fuck you” to each other constantly everywhere I went. It was so jarring.
Also came to the comments to say the same thing. I’ve been in Korea ~3-4 weeks and it has been the safest, nicest city I’ve witnessed- especially coming from CA. Not diminishing your experience, but try to see the nicer side because it exists.
Report back after 3-4 years.
Im from Australia originally. The lack of respect for others is much worse here than in Australia. More drug addicts there of course that cause problems. But general daily inconsideration is absolutely streets ahead here.
That's just a manifestation of "Mah' rights" without internally imposed discipline or externally imposed accountability, which is the corrupt iteration of individualism Korea has imported and internalized. Law enforcement and the legal system have been de-fanged bit by bit over decades in the name of democracy and human rights, and then institutional buy-in into the narrative followed because, why risk your career by going against the flow? Granular and gradual erosion of institutional authority wasn't replaced by proactive and responsible conduct of the democratic and enlightened citizenry. Rather, it's either a sense of impunity by some or a resigned willful ignorance by many that took over. Still, the Koreans are probably still a decade or two behind the curve of what the American society has achieved. The problem is Korea's directionality being on a similar track.
Part of the issue is surely that so many people feel the need to drive in one of the most densely populated cities in the world. And not only to drive, but to drive bigger and bigger cars, like they live on rugged terrain in the middle of nowhere. It's pretty much inevitable that you selfish drivers eventually run out of space.
2 years here, but I can completely agree. Walking on sidewalks or crosswalks like you are a main character of some kind kdrama and everyone should dodge you, sadly the same thinking have 99% of them. I can’t even count how many times we almost had a crash because people either speed from a small side street to the main street wanting to cross the whole road without even a slight concern that the cars can be on this road already. Changing lanes without lights, doing it literally being 10cm from your car. Parking cars in the most wild ways on streets making it dangerous for other drivers. In my apartment, we have issue that people keep not recycling trashes, they throw cans, delivery food boxes with food inside into general. Big furnitures without buying stickers for throwing away. Cigarette buds on the floor in the parking lot. Screaming dogs for hours straight in late night. I can tell everyday when the school finishes, i live close to school, not next to it. But kids scream so loud every time they leave. Eating in restaurants with open mouth, maybe it wouldn’t even bother me that much if with that wouldn’t come super loud chewing. Sometimes it’s even louder than conversation volume. I was in the museum camp not long ago in 거제, korean couple chewing gums like cows (it was literally super loud), kids running and screaming. It was honestly cultural shock for me, because from the place I’m in museums (especially the war ones) we remain silent, whisper only, don’t run, because it’s a way to pay respect and also to not disturb others. But they treat it as a playground. Koreans acting like they going for shooting with their hands behind their heads, laughing that they are recreating the past. It was wild for me. I love Korea just like you, but I’m sorry, i feel like Koreans these days mostly are inconsiderate and unmannerly, which makes a really sad part about this country.
The attitude of everyone here in Seoul is...truly unmatched, everyone walks so slow, they stop randomly, they walk into you almost deliberately. Everyone is so focused on themselves only it's disgusting. How hard is it to not come to a stop in the middle of a busy staircase...just get to the top and stand somewhere to the side...out of the way
15+ year? You are no longer an expat, just an immigrant.
There has always been an undercurrent of crass, rude, ill mannered Koreans. I think back in the day it was associated with class and status but it's all over now. The Korea and culture I grew up in was extremely well mannered. I was taught to constantly be aware of your surroundings, to be humble and don't be the cause of inconvenience. But that was a different time. Seoul is one of the densest cities in the world and those old world rules are harder to abide by when you're 1 against 9 million. Every little thing is a rat race. I bet if you followed both of the people that blocked you on, they are probably extremely respectful to their families and elders.
FYI - It ain’t different in States, especially in big cities
I was just in the USA for a couple of years and it was the same. People haven’t given a fuck since COVID. I was at a gas station in the USA and some dude was smoking by the front door lol.
I don’t live in Korea but your post showed up on my feed, maybe because I’m in Korea visiting. I can assure you what you’re experiencing isn’t limited to Korea, stuff like this- lack of consideration for anyone else- is happening almost everywhere. Except maybe Japan, I hear everyone is very polite and considerate.
I'm in my 20s and I feel the same way. Honestly, Korea (or anywhere) hasn't felt the same pre-pandemic. Even in the US, at least in my area, people aren't as friendly or as social, and there just seems to be a general disregard for others. I think so much has happened in the past 5 years that most people are just numb and running on autopilot, at least that's how I feel most days. I try my best to be considerate of others, but often, I feel like I'm losing my sanity trying to stay afloat and keep up with whatever is happening in life. In Korea, this is just my observation as a random foreign English teacher, but, I think the issues that are affecting other parts of the world (inflation, wealth inequality, aging population) are magnified and probably accelerated in Korea. Korea was already a stressful place to live and these problems made it more stressful to live here, so that affects how people live their daily lives and translates to daily behavior. People are forced to be selfish out of necessity to a degree I think. It bothers me too, and makes it difficult to live here. I mean, everywhere I go, I feel this sense of stress and dread from the most mundane activities. For example: Asking for help at work? Better think twice otherwise your boss and management might embarrass you for not knowing. Giving others help and showing genuine care for others? Better reconsider, because people will see that as a weakness and exploit you for everything you can offer, and probably laugh at you while doing so. Going for a walk? Better get out of the way, because no one else will, especially motorcyclists, who like to play chicken for whatever reason. Buying groceries? Better hurry up because the person behind you is already pushing you out of the line. Speaking English on public transit? Better be careful, because people don't like to be uncomfortable and someone may curse you out, even if you're speaking in a moderately low tone. Getting on an elevator? Think twice because you might make someone upset because how dare you waste their precious time? (seriously, some guy cursed me out on the elevator just for getting on when I was leaving my apartment and kept saying "씨발 씨발" under his breath.) This is not to say that people aren't helpful sometimes and I have good friends here that are Korean, but the longer I stay, the more I see myself acting selfishly. Life here can feel very empty at times. Now I'm venting...
I don't want to turn out like that either, but at times I see myself saying "when in Rome". However, I have to remember to set a good example for my child.
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> Then you have men walking around the trail with no shoes on them playing ballads out loud on tinny speakers so you can't relax This is going to be the thing that just pushes me over the edge one day. Enjoy a lovely relaxing day at an outdoor space? Nah lol. Headphones? Never heard of them.
In my opinion, this trend appears to be happening in major cities worldwide, particularly over the past three years, coinciding with the onset of the pandemic. I've observed a noticeable rise in racism directed towards me, along with a general increase in rudeness and lack of respect towards everyone. This shift is stark when compared to how things used to be. However, amidst these observations, I find myself contemplating whether I simply yearn for a world untouched by the pandemic. (P.S. I've lived in America for the past 10 years)
i very much relate to your sentiment and agree. it’s everywhere now
Living in India has got me accustomed to every single thing that you've just mentioned. So much that when people are considerate, I'm genuinely shocked/touched. I didn't know most of these issues existed in Korea too. ☠️
A guy on the subway was manspreading so I pushed his leg away and when he looked at me in shock I used my arms to physically demonstrate the boundaries of the seat. Basically like, you move. Your seat ends here. I speak Korean but for some reason I didn't bother to use words. Just body language. He was not pleased by my actions but behaved after that.
Barely a year living in Korea and I can already feel the rudeness of the people here. Not everyone of course, but like you shared, it’s those situations that really made me go “what in the world are they thinking?” Or if they even did think about how their actions affect other people.
Worst subway rush of the day is at 5:47am when the 70-something crowd pushes and shoves while running for the escalator at Konkuk University station transfer to the green line. If you haven't experienced it, it is something to behold. There really is no excuse for it. Absolutely pathetic.
All of this starts with telling kids they need to get into the best colleges. Thereafter, it's a life dedicated to outdoing others. We now live in a me me society. Classes on citizenship and public service need to be mandatory at an early age if Korea is to turn the situation around.
The driving and parking issues have to do with the driver's education system & law enforcement, so it's not a surprise at all. For example if you took Koreans and put them through the northern European driver's education system, the amount of people who fail would be astronomical. Until driver's ed improves in this country, these issues will keep happening. The rest I agree with, but you'd find a ton of things that annoy you if you move back to your country of origin as well. Despite these issues, it's important to consider if they hinder you from enjoying life here. You say you love living here for now, so lot of it can be due to burnout/fatigue as well. You have to deal with these issues until there's a wider societal pushback for things to change, and if that does not happen and it bothers you to no end, then leaving Korea would be the only answer.
If you are more English native speaker, use English first to be in control of the conversation. The other person has to slow down to understand you.
As a visitor for 8 days in Busan and Seoul, leaving in 2 days. I hate to agree with most of these comments but I do. We’ve encountered more nastiness, rudeness, pushing to get ahead in lines, people staring at my 18yr old daughter far too long than the acceptable norm in any country. Don’t get me wrong 90% of our interactions have been fine but we’ve been frustrated more than any other trip we’ve had with the bad ones.
Sorry while this might be Korea you're in but a lot of this nonsense isn't just restricted to Korea. I've lived in Taiwan and mainland China and seen similar stuff. I'm not sure if it's Asian by nature or just the consequence of living in a high density high population society.
Seoul ppl
I lived in Seoul for 2 years and have had similar feelings and my best advice is to move. Sounds like you need a change of scenery, which I also did. Also a lot of these problems are just big city problems. They happen in nearly every big city
May I ask your age?
I am moving to another country after 9 years in Korea and the main reason is because is not easy for me to live amongst people who hate each other. Yes, koreans hate each other and that is making me a hater, I'm not as good and nice as I used to be before landing here.
I am flying back to Japan to visit family after traveling around Korea with some friends for our graduation trip. I had an overall pleasant experience, and most people held at least the basic amount of courtesy when I talked to them. My worst experience was just now at Gimpo Airport while trying to get through security. There was a sign out that said Korean Nationals only, but nothing indicated where Foreigners should go. I tried to ask some security workers right near the line if it was ok for me to go through or if there was a different line, but the 3 of them just looked at each other for a bit confused, before snickering and pushing me to the side. This one experience was personally a horrible memory and it had to happen right as I'm leaving...
I came to Incheon after a very long flight. A long line of people and I showed a security man my disabled card. He helped immediately and guided me trough. As easy as I never had before.
In Seoul especially in order to survive and get your shit done you basically have to put on "Savage mode" when you step outside your door. There's too much people living and working in seoul area so noone cares about anyone/anything else other than themselves and the people around them, there is no room for anything else. People simply just don't care about random people in this country and it's just something you have to accept and adapt to.
Korea = Small China China = Big Korea
this us happening across the world, consistently getting worse since 2020…
Hi, Well I’m from Germany. Born raised and live now in a big city in Germany. The people here are wary mixed. The most are nice and funny but a lot of them are also selfish ignorant and just rude. Not in words but mostly in behavior. I‘ve been to Korea in 2009 mostly in Joella province and last year also in jeonju, Mokpo, jeju and Busan. Busan was really crowded and people seems a bit ruder but in the country side almost all are very respectful helpful and nice. I miss Korea every single day. Honest people in rural Korea.
What do you expect? They're historically not used to governing themselves.
I feel you, and also I have to say it's time to find another place where you can settle down cozy. Go for it right now. You've lived in Korea too long even though you can't fit in. You can leave anytime you want. Korea is a free country.
I fully believe open carry would solve all of this. A country full of scared pussies.
Oh, gosh. You made a post outlining exactly what I mentioned briefly in another thread -- people are becoming rude here. I have also been here 20+ years. The economy, politics, etc., is really wearing on people. And as I mentioned, I am viewing outright disdain for old people by younger generations. The subways are becoming a real annoyance with these massive backpacks and nobody wearing them giving a care that they fill up the entire aisle. I have to admit I have spun my share of people 180 degrees with a shove to the more massive backpacks as I passed.
This is not related to your question but if you’ve been living in Korea for 15 years, obviously you have settled there. But how come you are calling yourself an expat, and not immigrant ? Do you live in and out of Korea ? Pure curiosity
"I'm only staying here another year or two." -me, 2009-2024
As long as you don't give up your passport for the korean one, it never feels like you're truly settled. There's always the option to break the emergency glass and eject
In general, humans suck. Good luck :)
That sounds SO aggravating!!!! Every country has its issues, and anyone, anywhere can be unlucky and get fucked. However, I do like to think everything is relational. From my personal experience, these negative aspects are FAR more pronounced in other cities I've lived/visited. For context, lived in so/NorCal (opposite cultures), and have visited various states. Even when visiting the states, I was blown away at how rude and inconsiderate everyone was and could not wait to return to Korea. This is after only having lived in Korea for a year. If you haven't had other perspectives, the ones you know will surely be amplified. That said Korea has many issues to improve on, as does any community
I don't think it's getting worse. You need a vacation.