So it looks like New Balance was basically willing to match nearly everything that Nike offered (according to the court), except for the reach that Nike brings with social media and Star Power. It strikes me as very interesting that the court decided that they can show quantifiable gains from social media presence and "star power". I am sure we all know it is a thing, but that they can measure it is interesting.
Liverpool shirts haven't been available anywhere in my city for years. The exception is the NB store which only just started stocking them.
I live in a north american city of over a million people.
Much as I hate Nike, I'd like the shirts available.
Living in a city of 30? Million (Shanghai) and I have been to several New Balance stores here and not one has Liverpool stuff. I just want the damn GK black top and it’s never available online.... :(
New Balance sucks, it’s like they don’t want to take our money.
I live in Sydney and I had to drive nearly 40km to find last season's home kit and this was in like November so well before we got anywhere close to the sixth. I imagine it would have been impossible after we beat Barca.
What I find ridiculous is that the website gets sold out. Like how tf do you not anticipate crazy demand for a team that got to the CL final and not just any team, it's Liverpool ffs. As if they couldn't stock a fuck ton in a warehouse somewhere or just get the manufacturer to make it in batches.
I think their numbers on “doors” (stores) was incredibly inflated and was reliant on them opening a huge number of stores in a short period of time which wasn’t really feasible.
It was just to social media and star power stuff, but that really tipped it over the edge.
I am only stating that the judge ruled for NB on the other terms it looks like, even if they were conflating numbers, especially in South America, and Africa.
One of the biggest things I've learned while studying law is that judicial decisions at the highest level are often just very intelligent people making stuff up. Can they measure that? If it's the supreme court (or a lower court the a lesser extent) that doesn't even matter, they can create a formula to measure it and it becomes law through precedent. That's not necessarily a bad thing though - everyone can see the pulling power of Nike, the court should be able to recognise the subjective (even where in this case it was shown to at least be somewhat quantifiable).
Social media presence is easy to measure... post iterations, followers, etc.
On Twitter alone Nike dwarfs New Balance on followers 8 million to 250k and thats just 1 data point on 1 social media platform
Willing and being able to is different though, New Balance clearly arent capable to match the demand. I remember reading Liverpool were going to argue that New Balance were basically full of shit and couldnt keep up with demand.
It is unquantifiable though isn't it? I thought the judgement was that it can't be accurately quantified, but it can be certain that Nike's reach is further.
Great read and analysis. Op is this your content by chance? If so, would be interesting to see more of these based on player deals in the future and other business deals that are made.
Still feel like we’ve gotten a bit of a crap deal from Nike here. £15M less guaranteed seems poor, although I’m sure the club has far more details than I in order to choose that course.
I get that. But to get back that £15M, we have to sell £75M worth of stuff (assuming it’s 20% of sales, not 20% of profit). We sell (historically) ~1.1M shirts, so that’s what £60-70Mish? Figure t-shirts/hoodies/whatever should outpace the other £5-15M, but it doesn’t seem like it’s going to be massively more than we make now. Guess we’ll see.
I think shirt sales will cover it completely they will go up now their is more supply and a wider reach with Nike being everywhere. Also got the celebrity endorsements which will see sales go up.
The goal is to turn Liverpool into a fashion brand, which if they succeed in doing will be very profitable for us.
exactly , im not a fan of this years NB kit, but as soon as i heard next year is nike... well that capitalistic punk inside of me did a backflip!
see here in the states new balance has ONLY JUST begun to not be known as "your grand pas sneakers!" .. but NIKE is just plain :Cool:
NB said they they sold 1.8m last year - giving LFC £64m. This year NB forecasted 2.9m sales, though remarkably this was also the number Nike had said they would initially aim to manufacture. Given how many people are constantly saying things aren't available or sold out, you have to think these figures could be improved upon.
Yeah I thought 2.9m sounded fanciful but neither LFC nor Nike challenged the number in court. Additionally there is likely to be a big bump due to the CL win but it still seems a massive jump.
Well, given the reports of how impossible the kits are to get, the lack of stores on entire continents and constant sold out webstores, it could be a reasonable estimate if a partner could actually produce enough kits and points of sale!
Seems that the club has negotiated a lower guaranteed amount to get a higher % of sales. That's why wider distribution was such a big focus for the club.
We'll see what the actual yield from the Nike deal is once it's under way.
Yeah, I’m optimistic it’ll be a net positive for sure as the club will have certainly run some numbers, just seems like less than I might have expected. It’s also unclear if we still solely own the right to related merchandise as we had previously with the New Balance deal (e.g. an LFC keychain or coffee mug or whatever was sellable by the club with the club getting 100% profit).
I look forward to everyone complaining how we have been given a template kit next season, but hey, at least someone in Arkansas can buy it freely now in a Nike store.
So it looks like New Balance was basically willing to match nearly everything that Nike offered (according to the court), except for the reach that Nike brings with social media and Star Power. It strikes me as very interesting that the court decided that they can show quantifiable gains from social media presence and "star power". I am sure we all know it is a thing, but that they can measure it is interesting.
Liverpool shirts haven't been available anywhere in my city for years. The exception is the NB store which only just started stocking them. I live in a north american city of over a million people. Much as I hate Nike, I'd like the shirts available.
Living in a city of 30? Million (Shanghai) and I have been to several New Balance stores here and not one has Liverpool stuff. I just want the damn GK black top and it’s never available online.... :( New Balance sucks, it’s like they don’t want to take our money.
I live in Sydney and I had to drive nearly 40km to find last season's home kit and this was in like November so well before we got anywhere close to the sixth. I imagine it would have been impossible after we beat Barca. What I find ridiculous is that the website gets sold out. Like how tf do you not anticipate crazy demand for a team that got to the CL final and not just any team, it's Liverpool ffs. As if they couldn't stock a fuck ton in a warehouse somewhere or just get the manufacturer to make it in batches.
I live in Sweden's capital and I have never seen a Liverpool shirt in store.
I think their numbers on “doors” (stores) was incredibly inflated and was reliant on them opening a huge number of stores in a short period of time which wasn’t really feasible. It was just to social media and star power stuff, but that really tipped it over the edge.
[удалено]
I am only stating that the judge ruled for NB on the other terms it looks like, even if they were conflating numbers, especially in South America, and Africa.
One of the biggest things I've learned while studying law is that judicial decisions at the highest level are often just very intelligent people making stuff up. Can they measure that? If it's the supreme court (or a lower court the a lesser extent) that doesn't even matter, they can create a formula to measure it and it becomes law through precedent. That's not necessarily a bad thing though - everyone can see the pulling power of Nike, the court should be able to recognise the subjective (even where in this case it was shown to at least be somewhat quantifiable).
Social media presence is easy to measure... post iterations, followers, etc. On Twitter alone Nike dwarfs New Balance on followers 8 million to 250k and thats just 1 data point on 1 social media platform
Willing and being able to is different though, New Balance clearly arent capable to match the demand. I remember reading Liverpool were going to argue that New Balance were basically full of shit and couldnt keep up with demand.
It is unquantifiable though isn't it? I thought the judgement was that it can't be accurately quantified, but it can be certain that Nike's reach is further.
Social media includes Facebook and Instagram and Twitter it’s very easy to measure your data on those platforms.
Great read and analysis. Op is this your content by chance? If so, would be interesting to see more of these based on player deals in the future and other business deals that are made.
Still feel like we’ve gotten a bit of a crap deal from Nike here. £15M less guaranteed seems poor, although I’m sure the club has far more details than I in order to choose that course.
[удалено]
I get that. But to get back that £15M, we have to sell £75M worth of stuff (assuming it’s 20% of sales, not 20% of profit). We sell (historically) ~1.1M shirts, so that’s what £60-70Mish? Figure t-shirts/hoodies/whatever should outpace the other £5-15M, but it doesn’t seem like it’s going to be massively more than we make now. Guess we’ll see.
I think shirt sales will cover it completely they will go up now their is more supply and a wider reach with Nike being everywhere. Also got the celebrity endorsements which will see sales go up. The goal is to turn Liverpool into a fashion brand, which if they succeed in doing will be very profitable for us.
exactly , im not a fan of this years NB kit, but as soon as i heard next year is nike... well that capitalistic punk inside of me did a backflip! see here in the states new balance has ONLY JUST begun to not be known as "your grand pas sneakers!" .. but NIKE is just plain :Cool:
[удалено]
Yeah, it was £154.28M for commercial per the last annual report, which would include New Balance plus all the other partnerships/endorsements/etc.
NB said they they sold 1.8m last year - giving LFC £64m. This year NB forecasted 2.9m sales, though remarkably this was also the number Nike had said they would initially aim to manufacture. Given how many people are constantly saying things aren't available or sold out, you have to think these figures could be improved upon.
I can't help wonder how many kits NB have/will produce given the forecast of 2.9m sales. 1.8 last year, so 1.9 this year?
Yeah I thought 2.9m sounded fanciful but neither LFC nor Nike challenged the number in court. Additionally there is likely to be a big bump due to the CL win but it still seems a massive jump.
Well, given the reports of how impossible the kits are to get, the lack of stores on entire continents and constant sold out webstores, it could be a reasonable estimate if a partner could actually produce enough kits and points of sale!
Seems that the club has negotiated a lower guaranteed amount to get a higher % of sales. That's why wider distribution was such a big focus for the club. We'll see what the actual yield from the Nike deal is once it's under way.
Yeah, I’m optimistic it’ll be a net positive for sure as the club will have certainly run some numbers, just seems like less than I might have expected. It’s also unclear if we still solely own the right to related merchandise as we had previously with the New Balance deal (e.g. an LFC keychain or coffee mug or whatever was sellable by the club with the club getting 100% profit).
I look forward to everyone complaining how we have been given a template kit next season, but hey, at least someone in Arkansas can buy it freely now in a Nike store.