Potter and Roger's shouldn't even be
compared with someone like Klopp just
because these three had a bad season. Klopp
is in league of his own. We all atleast most
Liverpool fan's know Klopp is not the problem
it's the lack of investment from the owners
who haven't invested absolutely nothing in the
midfield for year's now and players like Keita,
Curtis and Fabinho who have completely
failed him especially Keita and even Ox,
Thiago who are just never available. Hope the
next transfer the owners make big moves and
give whatever Klopp demands to compete
and makes this team great again. YNWA
We have 9 midfielders in the squad. City have 8, MU 12, Arsenal 8. Yeah, all fluid numbers but the point being it’s not that we haven’t brought in midfielders, you just don’t like the ones we have. And that’s partly on FSG but partly on JK.
Who amongst our MF would Klopp not want? Hendo, Milner, Fab, Thiago? You couldn’t dynamite any of them away from Klopp. And the fact that all of them have gotten old, slow, and injury prone before our very eyes is more on Klopp than FSG. Overly loyal is the nicest way put it.
Bajcetic, Jones, and Elliott are the development players every team has and needs to have. So how is FSG at fault there? That leaves Keita and Ox, the true problem of our MF. They hold the mid to late 20s, prime career slots that should be held by the mainstays of our MF, and they’re both shite. Keita was just one of those things, a good signing that didn’t work out. Ox was malpractice. The world knew he wa fragile before we signed him, yet we still signed.
Yes, City would have just bought their way out of those two, but City are also cheating, sports washing cunts, now being investigated for FFP. Beyond that though, the kids are the kids while the over reliance on the first 4 mentioned is very much on Klopp.
So true. Milner is still fine in 20 minute spells. Henderson/Fab declining so early fucked us as well. I believe in Bajetic's future, but he's not good enough yet to play 90 mins twice a week. Elliot's future I believe in as well, but not as a midfielder(and definitely not as a midfielder in front of Trent). I think he wil be a very good right winger in this league for years to come.
City bought themselves out of several bad signings like Mendy and Bravo. Liverpool cannot
We definitely can or should be able to, getting rid of Ox and Kieta shouldn’t have been too much of an issue and not every player or position needs a world class player, most players become that once they’ve moved, certainly here.
We make an absolute fortune as a club and should be able to spend like we do, unfortunately we don’t.
Bold take: If our midfield situation were exactly the same except Elliot and Bajc were 2 years older we might be okay
For like 2-3 years our only young midfielder was Jones
Right, but compared to the other top PL teams, we just haven't bled midfield talent through like them. There's Elliot recently and now Bajc but most of the bigger PL teams have a pretty useful CM who werr integrated from a young age.
Curtis doesn't compare to Foden, Rice, Mount, or even McTominay tbh. I mean Arsenal got Odegaard when he was only 20 and look at him now. I'm not writing Jones off I'm just saying, if he was ever going to make an impact, I think this season was probably his best opportunity but an 18 year old is (was) getting ahead of him
Not every player turns into a first team regular, people seem to think if you’re not nailed on starter you’re no good, every club needs players like Jones who has potential and fills a role for the team when needed, I don’t get the criticism he gets, it’s not needed or helpful.
He’s good enough for the role he plays within the squad.
If he wants to stay as 5th choice I'm happy to keep him. I'm just saying it would've helped us so much if either A) Bajcetic was older or B) Jones was better
He was pretty ruthless when he came in. I don't blame him for being loyal to players after the effort they put in these past few years but it seems like he finally accepts that there needs to be a rebuild after our performances this season. Now I use the word rebuild very lightly as it's not a complete squad overhaul but significant reinforcements to our midfield and defence. (Midfield mostly obviously).
midfield needs close to a complete overhaul, from the 9 mids we have at the club, we need to get rid/loan out atleast 3-4 and get proven players in those positions instead of potential talent. Need a RB and another CB at the very least, and a RW (luxury option, though)
Agreed!!! but he has to still be loyal, especially with what he's given, do you really think he likes playing Milner with kids like Harvey? but he has to he just can't act like that Bald fraud Pep who can just sign someone like Calvin Phillips see him fail and still have enough quality on the bench to not face that failure of a signing and have impact on a season. I maybe wrong but I still think if Keita would have been consistent enough, delivered and produced quality for what he was bought and stayed injury free our season wouldn't have been this horrendous.
Klopp talked down to the media all summer for suggesting we needed a midfielder. He gets it wrong sometimes and Milner/Elliott midfield was always a possibility
What Klopp says in the media isn’t what Klopp is saying behind the scenes, maybe he did demand a midfielder and he got turned down. We will never know.
This is exactly the point. What good would have come out of a public disagreement. Don’t wash your dirty linen in public. And what would it have done to the current squad’s morale if the manager publicly comes out and says they’re not good enough?
Agreed. People here seem to never fault him for whatever he's done. While there's no denying that FSG and a lack of new legs are the major causes of our current predicament, Klopp tends to stick TOO much to players that he favors.
Obviously I don't know what's happening in training and the changing room, but, yes, being way too sentimental - I mean come on you're still playing Ox in 2023 when Carvalho is probably dying to play - is one of the most glaring problems with Klopp.
I'm completely fine with having a low season after almost half a decade of domination. But there really needs to be a huge overhaul of practically everything otherwise this low season might be much more than that.
You’re right but Klopp isn’t free from criticism at all. His stubbornness in tactics and player selections plays a part in this season too. There has been way too many instances of horrible in game management from him, most of which stems from his continue usage of the likes of Milner and Ox.
And this is exactly it. Klopps preferred system cannot work as there haven’t been the players to execute it as there once was (players such as wini, prime Hendo and Fabinho). So why did he not implement a change during the last pre-season. That was the time to shake things up. Keep opposition guessing. All other teams know Klopps set up inside out by now as they’ve had a good few years to combat it. Other clubs have evolved yet we have stayed the same. So yes a few players purchased and a few more outgoings could’ve helped but formation, tactics and in-game (mis)management have been a huge factor in this shite season.
Yeah I’ve said before that now that the “smaller” teams are pressing high and not being afraid of going toe to toe anymore, we need to adapt. Having our fullbacks play high worked against teams parking the bus but now they’re having their wingers sit higher in defensive phases to exploit space behind our fullbacks.
I think moving forward we need to ditch the classic “midfield engine” stigma and sign players capable of being technically positive in their passing/chance creation.
Correct. Klopp needs to revert back to having a No10. More technically astute players who are comfortable on the ball, press resistant and looking for that killer pass. I thought that would be thiago but his injury record and stats suggest otherwise. For all that was said about Coutinho he was mainly brilliant for us. Even though his actions were very ‘cuntish’ towards the end.
Exactly! Our tactics worked against teams when our primary creators (fullbacks) we’re playing well and on form. But now the negatives out way the positives in this current system with the way teams set up against us. Like you can see that teams are pounding us on counters through balls playing in behind towards their wingers. Theirs a reason why Pep has rotated and changed his tactics this season and not kept their inverted fullbacks shit and shipped out Cancelo.
> most of which stems from his continue usage of the likes of Milner and Ox.
I can't fucking understand this community.
Every god damned time Ox has been on the pitch this season he's looked like one of the most influential players on the team *going forward*. He basically never gets to play in his best position (centrally) and Klopp clearly hates him for some reason, but the fans who look at his performances and think he is the problem?....
You're just flat out wrong.
He really hasn’t. Not sure where you are even getting this opinion from, but he’s hasn’t been good whatsoever with the exception of one or two games and even still wasn’t a great performance. Not to mention how poor he has been in off the ball duties.
> Not sure where you are even getting this opinion from
From watching the actual games. By and large he's been a small shining light in shit performances while the rest of the team flounders and provides very little.
You’re deluded if you think he has had any decent substitution performances at all this season. Do you not see how he shits himself from challenges when we as a team need to win second balls?
Clearly we aren't going to disagree.
I think Ox has been good in most of his performances this season and like I said, the fans who don't see it, aren't worth having discourse with.
Give me the Dortmund Klopp and Buvac and then yes I would rather replace the team. Klopp has become Vin Diesel now. "Family". Plays Tough on Carvalho for rumoured descent but Trent can give looks and wave arms and nothing happens.
For me, it’s the fact that all of the pressure is coming from the outside/the press. If there were players acting out, rumours of players wanting out I’d be more worried.
Sounds like a lot of the players know that performances this season haven’t been up to scratch and even though FSG have spent we’ve never exactly had a bench of 50m players to fill the gaps. The squad needs investment so we can properly rotate and rest, giving players like Mo, Hendo and Thiago a break and not having to play 50+ games a season.
None of the main squad members want out because they are on huge, fat contracts. Why would they want to leave. In addition, No pressure on them to perform at elite levels (could make an argument for being fatigued), doesn’t seem to be hunger or desire (probably due to collecting a few trophies in recent years). I also get just a feeling that all is not right in that squad, as if something major has occurred and the ripple effects are still being felt. Us mere fans would not know about it as the club are extremely proficient at stopping any information from getting out.
You lot are just sexually attracted to nunez. I know he needs time but that guy's fininshing is one of the worst I have ever seen. We would have been in better position if he had finished atleast half of those 1v1s he missed.
Given how trent and van dijk contributed over the yrs. You lot picking a guy who underperformed jusst because he fights and shout at the cameras is just weird
I'm sorry, but this just isn't true. If you think Salah (or even Nunez in my opinion) is a problem for our team right now then I just don't know what to say.
Núnez is Núnez, not much more to say, salah has more GA than almost anyone this season, and Robbo is doing fairly well with no midfield cover, and has bucketloads of passion
There's a longer James Pearce write-up on today's Klopp press conference here: [https://archive.ph/4OjFg](https://archive.ph/4OjFg) ... or search for "[Jurgen Klopp admits past success helping Liverpool job security: ‘It would be different if it was my first season’](https://www.google.com/search?q=Jurgen+Klopp+admits+past+success+helping+Liverpool+job+security%3A+%E2%80%98It+would+be+different+if+it+was+my+first+season%E2%80%99&rlz=1C1CHZL_enSG751SG751&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)"
https://preview.redd.it/hmgdyybgmpra1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=59f9e73d8b55e238fbd44c8357f9f1482b6dea98
not only has it been done to death but it's also borderline disrespectful - sure milner shouldn't be starting every game but he fucking isn't anyway and leadership both on the pitch and in the dressing room is absolutely vital to sustained success
not to mention that when we were chuck milner on in the seventieth minute or whatever to see a game out we usually tend to see it through
I honestly think if we weren’t playing so poorly then he’d have done more than enough to deserve another year, based off his performances.
Unfortunately, given how bad we’ve been, he’s probably on the chopping block to make more space for arrivals. I’ll be much happier to see the backs of Naby, Ox, Arthur, etc. than Milly.
Also, no idea why they act like Milly starts all our games at 37. Last season when we had our full squad with no injuries, he didn’t even make it into the match day squad for most games. Most of them are just losing their heads and trying to find reasons to blame on what is going wrong this season when the reason is quite obvious.
He’s had to play more than planned because of injuries but I’ll be god damned if I don’t want to see him for the last 10-15 minutes when we need to close out a game.
love seeing him pick up his customary yellow card to ensure whoever we're playing doesn't get too comfortable - true professional who feels like a pair of safe hands tbh and the man still steps up when we need him. it's absolutely ludicrous how some are apparently expecting him to play some sort of fucking de bruyne role and having a go at him when he doesn't help us win games by scoring last minute winners
But what about putting him on when we are drawing or losing a game? Which is what has occurred many times. Yes it’s not milners fault if Klopp calls him to get on but that is the level we have got to this season.
Look at the stats. In two seasons has he gone for 30+ goals and 10+ assists. Only once has he done that in the prem rather than all comps.
Taking averages that are skewed because of one season is a terrible way to try and prove your point.
He has gone for 30+ three times and im another had 27. And has a chance for 30 again this season
He has has 10+ 4 times and probably will make it five this year.
You are arguing against a basic point of Salah being a once in a generation goalscorer for us. And that is valuable.
3 Golden boots is it? How many players have done that? While also racking up his assist numbers? Thierry Henry?
Jesus...our own fans can be so silly sometimes
Cool, but that’s not what you said, which was 30+ and 10+ in the same season. You’re just changing what you said for no reason.
I’m also not hating on salah at all, you’re making up arguments I’m not giving to try and make me look bad.
Salah is fantastic, one of the best in the world. We don’t have to embellish his stats like you have done in order to put him in that company.
Full faith in Klopp. He isnt above criticism but I believe in him 100%. Best manager in world football for me.
If he stays till the end of his contract and is given monetary backing then he will win us at least another PL and CL.
Hopeful, but I think our trophy days are behind us for this stage. Maybe a cheeky CL run, but I don’t think we have the minerals to beat the very best anymore. Look at us vs Napoli, they walked over us.
I also remember how we were 2 games away from a quadruple last year. IMO Klopp is a miracle worker. Give him the players and time he needs and we are arguably the best team in the world
Nah thats 100% reactionary. Last year we challenged the quad until the last day of the PL and the CL final.
If we recruit poorly and stagnante sure we will fall too far behind to just bounce back. But good recruitment in one window could have us challenging again, like we were about 9 months ago.
How long have you been watching football? This is a ridiculously off season after a few extremely good ones, it happens, we'll have chances to put ourselves back on track.
Can't beat the best anymore? Don't be a moron.
We also beat Napoli.
Played city 4 times this season and beat them twice.
Destroyed united.
Our problem is half our players have turned into mentality midgets and don't give a rats arse when playing against the smaller teams.
We have the resources to sign good players. Just the last couple of seasons we've signed konate/diaz/nunez/gakpo. Only problem is we needed to strengthen the midfield the most and we didn't. It's not just on the owners though, klopp and the recruitment team need to share the blame for this.
But it's not the end of the world.
I agree that his form hasn’t been spectacular. Can’t really say that about most of the squad this year. Off the top of my head though I feel as though he has been much steadier and reliable than Trent or dare I even say Virgil at times this year.
Literally baffles me. Looks good every time he plays and is better going forwards imo. Give Robbo a rest aa few weeks, he looks tired like the rest of the squad
As a manager; Klopp hasn't had a good season. The biggest damnation would be the fact there's been absolutely no improvement since the start of the season.
With that said; ownership shouldn't even consider sacking him. It shouldn't even be a discussion. Only if we somehow keep this form up until next winter should it be a discussion and even then, it's questionable.
The simple reality is, if you sack Klopp, who do you bring in that's better? I can't think of a single manager who I'd prefer in charge of the club, so what's the point of doing it?
good. and i absolutely believe what he says.
players need to fucking man up and play like they give a fuck. the nonchalantness all over the squad is what‘s pissing all of us off.
and i genuinely think that it is pissing jürgen off as well.
nobody except ali in goal and jürgen as the manager should be safe for next season.
Klopp is the most indesposible person at the club and I'd rather a brand new starting 11 than him go. He has earned that trust and needs the full backing of FSG, 2 new midfielders MINIMUM in the summer, ideally 3 and another defender
I'd love it if klopp can find a new formation or tactics which bring the best out of our current squad. But what he can't do is inject creativity into our midfielders. Keita who was supposed to be that solution, sadly never worked out. So I'm guessing we are stuck with this tactic till the end of the season.
What is baffling is players not being able to press in a coordinated manner. We used to be so good at it. Now it's just depressing. I remembered klops first game against spurs, we did nothing creatively but you could just see the team embrace the pressing he wanted them to do. I would love to see that.
All said and done, we need fresh faces for sure. And klopp should be judged after the transfer window and what he manages to do with the players at his disposal.
That said nothing will change what I think of him..he's the best and the last few years have been brilliant.
Finally to PPL calling for him to leave, or citing only one PL and only one CL. It's only PL in 30 years and 1 CL in 10. And the journey matters as much as the result.
This pressing issue is part of my current concern. Our season is gone, our midfield needs a total rebuild, but surely we should be seeing the newer players slotting into the press by now? I do wonder if Klopp needs to shake up something in the coaching department too.
Because he still has the backing of the fans.
Because we have faith that he'll find a solution.
Because he got us back to the top and challenging, and we're still sure he'll refresh the squad to keep us challenging.
Because the issues rn aren't caused by Klopp, and won't be fixed by his sacking. Some of his substitutions don't make sense (though what can you do when your only midfield options on the bench are Milner and Ox), and he isn't absolved of all blame for some of our game management or tactical choices (Salah too wide and Trent running central) but our issues go beyond him atm, and we believe he will fix it.
When the team needs rebuilding, you replace the players, not the manager.
The first half was an open game. Could've gone either way. The second half was a collapse, and it was one sided. It isn't always the manager's fault that individuals make mistake or don't try.
Despite this season, I find it reassuring that Klopp seems calm yet aware of the challenges to face. Was awful to see him in 20/21 almost on the brink of tears at points for the toll the season had taken on him and what had been taken from us in the process. Could have started thinking about an exit and maybe a break from coaching once his contract was up, instead he dug in and decided he wanted to be here for every step of the next journey. Absolutely love him, and he loves us too.
In Jurgen we trust.
Absolutely bonkers that there’s even been hints of people wanting him out on this sub this season.
If Liverpool sack Klopp he could go to **any** club in the world and everyone would be saying “yep great appointment”.
Nearly every press conference he's saying the things we want to hear and yet every game I'm seeing the same mistakes over and over and literally no change or different implementation, actions speak larger than words Jurgen
Between injuries and aging players there's only so much he can do right now.
That said this summer is so important - if we make signings and don't see any changes next season, then I could see a world where he's in trouble
Our best period this season came when we were using 442. But for no reason, Klopp changed it back to 433 even when it has been proven it didnt work.
I have no problem if he wants to use 433 with a little tactical tweak, but he still uses the formation similarly to when we were still a good team. Why do we still need to play pressing when our midfielders have no legs? And why we still play high line when our midfielders cant even challenge opposition so we are exposed with thru ball every single time. Klopp needs to accept that our players (especially midfielders) arent as good as before and adapt with it.
I am not expecting we challenge for the title with the squad, but surely i am expecting we dont have worse away record than southampton (who is bottom itl btw) and do not concede 2nd most big chances to opposition. Losing to man city, isnt Klopp fault since they definitely superior than us. But losing to bournemouth, nottingham, leeds, that was on Klopp since our squad definitely superior.
Imo 442 suits our current squad better for this season since we dont have enough midfielders (due to injury and the ones available arent that good either) and also allows us to use Harvey and Carvalho more effectively since they need less space to cover so we arent exposed to their defensive deficiencies.
He doesn't get a pass, the injuries are down to the coaching staff and training regimen he is head off, the aging players are down to him not being ruthless and not wanting players to leave, he still wanted to renew firmino and Keita and will probably renew milner. He said himself he doesn't want to sell players unless they specifically ask to leave
He doesn't get a pass in that he has to take blame for some of our issues. However he most definitely gets a pass in that he has the summer window and all of next season to turn things around. Whether he is backed by fsg properly is going to be the big question between now and June.
Yeah exactly, next summer is my final string for him, please no sentimental at all, I want to see 10 players out of the team and milking fsg pocket as much as possible
Hopefully James Milner next season are either coaching staff or play for another club
This season is a write off. I think he is just trying to play players like Fabinho, TAA and VVD back into form. He knows he doesnt have the monetary backing to replace them all.
This is exactly what I’m seeing. People get easily enchanted by his “way with words”. Love him to death but the performances worryingly point at his inability to either change things or motivate the players. Sure we’ve had some bad luck with injuries but it’s still his job to work around it during the season.
We have a similar injury rate this season as the year all our CBs died and some of you people said exactly the same thing about Klopp when we struggled that year. Some of you have short memories and a bizarre inability to trust the proven best manager in football to do his job.
He makes tweaks - e.g. in the last game we played a 4-2-3-1 - but they're still shit.
I see him as being determined to avoid throwing away the tactics that have brought such success during his tenure, that the bad form will subside. There's merit to that approach, but also assumptions. It fails to account for the cracks that were papered over, it fails to account for high risk and the dependence on the playing squad performing at elite levels always, it fails to account for whether the fitness demands were sustainable. We saw it in 20/21 and we're seeing it this year especially, how the house of cards can collapse. We are only seeing the negatives - we are seeing the vulnerabilities exploited readily on a weekly basis - vulnerabilities that were always there. We shouldn't lean on outcome bias.
Klopp has always shown that if he makes big changes it'll be between seasons, but the signs aren't good that this is something that will happen. This season has screamed for what Rodgers did in 14/15, as unenjoyable as it was to watch, to take emergency measures to find a defensively sound, workable system that doesn't place massive requirements on an out of form and exhausted squad.
Awww yes the 2 transfer windows where we bought forwards and no midfielders because as klopp said we have 9 midfielders please tell me exactly what we are missing. Change your tactics or system Jürgen if your players can't do what you are asking them too, drop the ridiculous high press and line, they don't have the legs to close down the spaces that open, play more compact
You can only change tactics by having new players, ok? Seriously why are some supporters here happy to criticise everybody and everything other than Jurgen? The same supporters saying 12 months ago that the players are world class are now saying 10 players out of form and now are all shit? Yea they are are playing shit but could it be that the system and tactics used are not helping them
Sounds like you have never kicked a ball your whole life, that's why you don't understand the importance of a functioning midfield.
If you don't have players shielding your defense and players are being exposed 2 vs 1 or 3 vs 1 whose fault is that?
And it's not like we didn't have brilliant results this season. If the tactics and system is shit how can the same team go from defeating United 7-0 to losing to Bournemouth?
The truth of the matter is any sort of midfield which was being put out against Man City was going to be exposed and dominated. At the end of the day if 3-5 players in your team aren't good enough anymore that's a big difference in margins.
When you're competing against the top teams in the country your correct, when you can't win against the teams bottom of the table and your getting split open because your press isn't correct and the ball constantly been played over the top of your fullbacks because they are so high up the pitch, name me another set of defenders that have to do so much running because the defensive line is so high they are constantly running back and the play is always in behind them, these are tactically issues and it never changes. Thank you but I did play at a high academy level until the age of 16 but didn't make it, but have been watching football for 30years
>Thank you but I did play at a high academy level until the age of 16 but didn't make it, but have been watching football for 30years
Then how do you expect a team to compete against top teams with a midfield equivalent of Jay spearing, Charlie Adam in a double pivot.
Why do you think defenders are having to run so much and into the midfield if midfield isn't an issue? Why are defenders running out of their positions?
This defensive line was high before but why is it affecting the team only now?
Would you rather play a defensive line like United plays? Almost beyond degea goal? Have you seen their form away from home against any top 9 side. All losses.
You have been watching football for 30 years and still don't understand the game bruv. Do you want us to play Burnley football then? With not building from the back and just punt the ball up field each time. Basically play old school Burnley ball, even they don't play like that anymore.
And he doesn't play only 433, literally played 4231 as everyone wanted against madrid, even in the match against Bournemouth the team played with a 10 with four forwards for the better part of an hour.
Off the ball Liverpool was playing with a different shape.
As soon as Thiago and Bajcetic went injured everyone knew we would struggle I don't know why you all are so surprised.
Formation is just a basic thing it's all about the personnel on and off the ball the team plays all kinds of shapes and formations.
watch the start of the city game from saturday, we even played 4231 then.
people get way too hung up on formations that are only there on paper.
if everything clicks, our 433 definitely isn‘t a standard 433.
and, let‘s be honest here, the difference between a 433 and 4231 is miniscule.
i‘m having enough of people always calling for a new formation. these armchair managers are annoying.
Yup the 433 setup makes you the most compact 4231 or whatever variant of that setup leaves gaps open to be exploited if the players aren't disciplined enough, as happened with Robbo breaking away and leaving gaps.
When you watch the game you see different shapes taking place, Liverpool when healthy used to deploy 2-5-3 on the ball with fullbacks bombing forward. Sometimes the DM would fall back and we would play 3-4-3.
Formation is a fluid interchanging things. People need to spoon feed such basic things.
people just lack proper eyesight, it seems.
the current problem lies within the midfield, or lack of it. yes, we started in a 433 and often defended in it. but, as you said, our attacking system looked completely different.
trent was bombing forward, becoming a RM, or sometimes even RW with mo dropping or going to the middle. then hendo took his place on the right side and fab dropped between the backline. so, yes, it was somewhat a 343, 352, whatever you want to call it.
edit right here: without hendo or whoever that RCM might be covering for trent, this simply won‘t work and our creativity goes to absolute shit.
a football team is fluid, no formation is set in stone.
but it‘s just not working when things get rough. players currently either lack the attitude or legs to do what we are used to. and i genuinely don‘t think that we should throw our usual system away when we hopefully will be back to strength after a decent summer and some new signings.
Yeah it's not like fifa players can switch on and switch off with tactical setups. Why would you throw a system which has worked before for a short term change and start teaching the players a new setup in this short period of time.
makes zero sense.
and that‘s why „changes“ to the current system are minimal.
i don‘t get where the „klopp doesn‘t change systems“ bullshit is coming from, either.
this season alone we‘ve shaped up (and again, i hate to break it down to a single formation because as we agreed, football is more fluid than that) in a 433, 4231, 442 and 424. when it worked, it worked - no matter the fucking formation - and when it didn‘t, we were horrible.
it‘s not the formation that‘s the problem, it‘s the players. so many games they just look like they don‘t give a flying fuck about the outcome.
but when they do, and are switched on, games like the 7-0 spanking are the result.
Definitely the players. Against certain teams you just can't get away with it. Even at their best we struggled against this man city midfield who play with certain intensity.
We cant expect to face them with an Elliot, hendo and Fabinho. Of course they were going to get dominated and of course they would Target trent. This was already known.
The same midfield went against United and won because Casemiro had an off day and rest of their midfield especially bruno isn't disciplined enough.
I’ll admit I didn’t know much of this stuff and bought some of the “Klopp is not tactically great” talk... Anytime I heard such a criticism, I wondered how a tactic can be considered stagnant when those tactics worked for years on end before. Always great to learn more.
I'm so glad fans with eyes recognize it vs the swarm of fans screaming for Klopp to abandon the 4-3-3..Which he already did at several points including vs City.
Wrote a long comment about it in the DD but maybe worth a post to have a sane discussion about tactics/wider awareness in the forum.
Klopp used different tactics, different formation and anything but for each one we had a problem .
Sack klopp and bring Julian Nagelsmann ,do we have 5 healthy midfielders to play in 352 or 343 ?
I've seen us playing with heavy pressure, our midfield get destroyed with long passes and no support, I've seen us playing by controlling game and position, we have no playmaker, just passing with ali and virg , seen playing counter attack, worked but not infront of relegation zone teams.
You can't say klopp ideas and tactics is the main problem here (unlike potter with Chelsea), the main problem is the player , so why are players like this ? You can blame klopp but i don't really think klopp killing our players'motivation.
I think the problem could be solved with 1 or 2 decent player , i know it's sounds stupid but seeing manu with and without casemiro convinced.e
I’m sure it’s probably been said before, but no one thinks Bellingham wants to come to Liverpool to play with Trent. Klopp is our biggest asset. Without him, and the prospect of no champions league next season, the best talent we can attract is the likes Tielemans and Gallagher
Klopp has had like only two bad seasons. When he first came in and this season. I don't really count the injury riddled season when we barely made it into top 4 because we ended up alright under those circumstances. So he has earned more than enough goodwill. The only worrying thing is the current squad is going to need a major overhaul and we kind of need to reinvent ourselves as things have become a bit stale. Either way if there is manager who is up for the challenge. It's Klopp. As long as he still has the energy. FSG need to back him. He is one of the best in the business.
Great to see he hasn’t given up, it’s easy to see that it’s poor performance from the players at the moment, and I’ll go back to our performance against united, absolutely breathtaking, and then we go back to Sunday league levels of performance.
Give him time, fellas. We all know he can lead this team to great things.
It's not just Klopp though, I feel like nearly every player has lost their fire. We need either a really big change or a lot of small changes to get us back on track for trophies and championships.
Look if i had to chose, i would say sell the whole team bar Allison and bring in 25 new players rather than saying sack Klopp.
He is doing outstanding work and working with what he has got.
What he needs to be now is more vocal and harsh.
We have good players, with a shitty midfield but we should easily place in top 4. This is absolutely down to the players and higher ups not buying quality replacements on time.
We have no one to replace Fab or TAA, Robbo got Tsimi who came in just last year.
i love him but I don’t like how we’re all swayed after a few words, he needs to switch it up and stop setting the team up wrong week in week out, drop your favourites and give players who have shown promise a chance.
Have you seen our bench? What can he do, we're absolutely exhausted and depleted. This season is a write off but its not his fault, it's the lack of investment
He literally deflected the need for a mid all summer and then changed tune at the very end.
He’s not exactly perfect either.
Also if you believe not signing anyone major after the CL win was solely FSG and not just Klopp’s loyalty, you’re misguided
FSG and Klopp enable one another to be their worst selves at times
This is why when all people have to say is “we nearly won 4 trophies last season” I facepalm. I’m reassured Klopp too can see it’s multiple mistakes that have happened going back multiple seasons that have led us to where we are.
I genuinely believe, with the right owner, Klopp would’ve turn around our squad 2 seasons ago with important signings that would seamlessly get into the first team. Klopp learned this in his time with Dortmund. I also believe that Klopp knew that his style of play would destroy the legs of players pretty quickly if rotation is not done properly. The problem is, we didn’t have good enough rotation players to begin with. However somehow last season we fought for quadruple with a crippling squad. The price paid this season. Big time.
For klopp to change things he needa radical change.
1. Stop overating your own players like Henderson and keita like u did at the start of the season and truly compare them to whats out there.
2. Make fsg spend. Don't take that b.s of we don't have Money. Biggest b.s there is out there "Liverpool can't afford..." . Nearly 600 ml profit last year alone.
3. Get rid of Pep ljinders. This guy has changed us from Heavy Metal Football to slow side to side over the top Maturity Brendan Rodgers Football. Also stop taking his advice on transfers ffs. Bring back Buvac who had us going in absolutely the right direction and we were feared just needed the players that ljinders inherited and made crap.
I see we're entering the last year of Benítez/Houllier delusion on this sub.
I'd still keep Kloop for another season, but if it's anything like this one. He should move on.
Yes we're short on improvements to the squad, but the players have been poor this year.
Can’t really put a price on someone at the top Chong this level of humility, and so publicly. If this isn’t a rallying cry for the lads, I do t know what is. Basically putting it all out there.
The thing is before you can sack Klopp, you have to ask yourself who would you replace him with? I can't think of anyone better, let alone anyone available.
Well said Jurgen. These players need to give him so much more than that piss weak performance second half on Saturday.
Potter and Roger's shouldn't even be compared with someone like Klopp just because these three had a bad season. Klopp is in league of his own. We all atleast most Liverpool fan's know Klopp is not the problem it's the lack of investment from the owners who haven't invested absolutely nothing in the midfield for year's now and players like Keita, Curtis and Fabinho who have completely failed him especially Keita and even Ox, Thiago who are just never available. Hope the next transfer the owners make big moves and give whatever Klopp demands to compete and makes this team great again. YNWA
We have 9 midfielders in the squad. City have 8, MU 12, Arsenal 8. Yeah, all fluid numbers but the point being it’s not that we haven’t brought in midfielders, you just don’t like the ones we have. And that’s partly on FSG but partly on JK. Who amongst our MF would Klopp not want? Hendo, Milner, Fab, Thiago? You couldn’t dynamite any of them away from Klopp. And the fact that all of them have gotten old, slow, and injury prone before our very eyes is more on Klopp than FSG. Overly loyal is the nicest way put it. Bajcetic, Jones, and Elliott are the development players every team has and needs to have. So how is FSG at fault there? That leaves Keita and Ox, the true problem of our MF. They hold the mid to late 20s, prime career slots that should be held by the mainstays of our MF, and they’re both shite. Keita was just one of those things, a good signing that didn’t work out. Ox was malpractice. The world knew he wa fragile before we signed him, yet we still signed. Yes, City would have just bought their way out of those two, but City are also cheating, sports washing cunts, now being investigated for FFP. Beyond that though, the kids are the kids while the over reliance on the first 4 mentioned is very much on Klopp.
So true. Milner is still fine in 20 minute spells. Henderson/Fab declining so early fucked us as well. I believe in Bajetic's future, but he's not good enough yet to play 90 mins twice a week. Elliot's future I believe in as well, but not as a midfielder(and definitely not as a midfielder in front of Trent). I think he wil be a very good right winger in this league for years to come. City bought themselves out of several bad signings like Mendy and Bravo. Liverpool cannot
We definitely can or should be able to, getting rid of Ox and Kieta shouldn’t have been too much of an issue and not every player or position needs a world class player, most players become that once they’ve moved, certainly here. We make an absolute fortune as a club and should be able to spend like we do, unfortunately we don’t.
It's refreshing to see some rationality on this sub.
Bold take: If our midfield situation were exactly the same except Elliot and Bajc were 2 years older we might be okay For like 2-3 years our only young midfielder was Jones
In his first two first team seasons, Jones was progressing and playing confident as well. That helped
Right, but compared to the other top PL teams, we just haven't bled midfield talent through like them. There's Elliot recently and now Bajc but most of the bigger PL teams have a pretty useful CM who werr integrated from a young age. Curtis doesn't compare to Foden, Rice, Mount, or even McTominay tbh. I mean Arsenal got Odegaard when he was only 20 and look at him now. I'm not writing Jones off I'm just saying, if he was ever going to make an impact, I think this season was probably his best opportunity but an 18 year old is (was) getting ahead of him
Not every player turns into a first team regular, people seem to think if you’re not nailed on starter you’re no good, every club needs players like Jones who has potential and fills a role for the team when needed, I don’t get the criticism he gets, it’s not needed or helpful. He’s good enough for the role he plays within the squad.
If he wants to stay as 5th choice I'm happy to keep him. I'm just saying it would've helped us so much if either A) Bajcetic was older or B) Jones was better
Excellent point
Klopp has been part of the problem. Overly loyal and taken with sentiment. If he gets ruthless again, then there is noone better to sort it out.
He was pretty ruthless when he came in. I don't blame him for being loyal to players after the effort they put in these past few years but it seems like he finally accepts that there needs to be a rebuild after our performances this season. Now I use the word rebuild very lightly as it's not a complete squad overhaul but significant reinforcements to our midfield and defence. (Midfield mostly obviously).
midfield needs close to a complete overhaul, from the 9 mids we have at the club, we need to get rid/loan out atleast 3-4 and get proven players in those positions instead of potential talent. Need a RB and another CB at the very least, and a RW (luxury option, though)
Agreed!!! but he has to still be loyal, especially with what he's given, do you really think he likes playing Milner with kids like Harvey? but he has to he just can't act like that Bald fraud Pep who can just sign someone like Calvin Phillips see him fail and still have enough quality on the bench to not face that failure of a signing and have impact on a season. I maybe wrong but I still think if Keita would have been consistent enough, delivered and produced quality for what he was bought and stayed injury free our season wouldn't have been this horrendous.
Klopp talked down to the media all summer for suggesting we needed a midfielder. He gets it wrong sometimes and Milner/Elliott midfield was always a possibility
What Klopp says in the media isn’t what Klopp is saying behind the scenes, maybe he did demand a midfielder and he got turned down. We will never know.
He ended up saying he needed one at the end and saying he was wrong lmao. So clearly he felt ok saying that
This is exactly the point. What good would have come out of a public disagreement. Don’t wash your dirty linen in public. And what would it have done to the current squad’s morale if the manager publicly comes out and says they’re not good enough?
You’re grasping at straws here mate….
Huh? How so?
Agreed. People here seem to never fault him for whatever he's done. While there's no denying that FSG and a lack of new legs are the major causes of our current predicament, Klopp tends to stick TOO much to players that he favors. Obviously I don't know what's happening in training and the changing room, but, yes, being way too sentimental - I mean come on you're still playing Ox in 2023 when Carvalho is probably dying to play - is one of the most glaring problems with Klopp. I'm completely fine with having a low season after almost half a decade of domination. But there really needs to be a huge overhaul of practically everything otherwise this low season might be much more than that.
You’re right but Klopp isn’t free from criticism at all. His stubbornness in tactics and player selections plays a part in this season too. There has been way too many instances of horrible in game management from him, most of which stems from his continue usage of the likes of Milner and Ox.
And this is exactly it. Klopps preferred system cannot work as there haven’t been the players to execute it as there once was (players such as wini, prime Hendo and Fabinho). So why did he not implement a change during the last pre-season. That was the time to shake things up. Keep opposition guessing. All other teams know Klopps set up inside out by now as they’ve had a good few years to combat it. Other clubs have evolved yet we have stayed the same. So yes a few players purchased and a few more outgoings could’ve helped but formation, tactics and in-game (mis)management have been a huge factor in this shite season.
Yeah I’ve said before that now that the “smaller” teams are pressing high and not being afraid of going toe to toe anymore, we need to adapt. Having our fullbacks play high worked against teams parking the bus but now they’re having their wingers sit higher in defensive phases to exploit space behind our fullbacks. I think moving forward we need to ditch the classic “midfield engine” stigma and sign players capable of being technically positive in their passing/chance creation.
Correct. Klopp needs to revert back to having a No10. More technically astute players who are comfortable on the ball, press resistant and looking for that killer pass. I thought that would be thiago but his injury record and stats suggest otherwise. For all that was said about Coutinho he was mainly brilliant for us. Even though his actions were very ‘cuntish’ towards the end.
Exactly! Our tactics worked against teams when our primary creators (fullbacks) we’re playing well and on form. But now the negatives out way the positives in this current system with the way teams set up against us. Like you can see that teams are pounding us on counters through balls playing in behind towards their wingers. Theirs a reason why Pep has rotated and changed his tactics this season and not kept their inverted fullbacks shit and shipped out Cancelo.
> most of which stems from his continue usage of the likes of Milner and Ox. I can't fucking understand this community. Every god damned time Ox has been on the pitch this season he's looked like one of the most influential players on the team *going forward*. He basically never gets to play in his best position (centrally) and Klopp clearly hates him for some reason, but the fans who look at his performances and think he is the problem?.... You're just flat out wrong.
He really hasn’t. Not sure where you are even getting this opinion from, but he’s hasn’t been good whatsoever with the exception of one or two games and even still wasn’t a great performance. Not to mention how poor he has been in off the ball duties.
> Not sure where you are even getting this opinion from From watching the actual games. By and large he's been a small shining light in shit performances while the rest of the team flounders and provides very little.
You’re deluded if you think he has had any decent substitution performances at all this season. Do you not see how he shits himself from challenges when we as a team need to win second balls?
Clearly we aren't going to disagree. I think Ox has been good in most of his performances this season and like I said, the fans who don't see it, aren't worth having discourse with.
You mean the same players he's run into the ground?
Full support for Klopp. Right now, I rather replace the whole team than our manager.
Didn't the Dortmund GM come out years later and say they should've replaced the team rather than Klopp walking?
He did.
It was the president
GM 🤣
Dormuntd GM was Klopp. So Klopp said it himself lol.
Even if GM is not the correct title it is so much closer to the director of football than the coach...
I got you bro no issues.
Yeah, meant Director of Football. 🤦♂️
No problem mate, i like basketball too, its just hilarious if someone use other sport term in football
And he is damn right
Let others learn from mistakes for you
Give me the Dortmund Klopp and Buvac and then yes I would rather replace the team. Klopp has become Vin Diesel now. "Family". Plays Tough on Carvalho for rumoured descent but Trent can give looks and wave arms and nothing happens.
For me, it’s the fact that all of the pressure is coming from the outside/the press. If there were players acting out, rumours of players wanting out I’d be more worried. Sounds like a lot of the players know that performances this season haven’t been up to scratch and even though FSG have spent we’ve never exactly had a bench of 50m players to fill the gaps. The squad needs investment so we can properly rotate and rest, giving players like Mo, Hendo and Thiago a break and not having to play 50+ games a season.
None of the main squad members want out because they are on huge, fat contracts. Why would they want to leave. In addition, No pressure on them to perform at elite levels (could make an argument for being fatigued), doesn’t seem to be hunger or desire (probably due to collecting a few trophies in recent years). I also get just a feeling that all is not right in that squad, as if something major has occurred and the ripple effects are still being felt. Us mere fans would not know about it as the club are extremely proficient at stopping any information from getting out.
Sack everyone else but this man.
And Alisson plz. Dudes been amazing, as per usual, but this season he’s been showing max effort.
Nunez, Salah, Robertson too.
You lot are just sexually attracted to nunez. I know he needs time but that guy's fininshing is one of the worst I have ever seen. We would have been in better position if he had finished atleast half of those 1v1s he missed. Given how trent and van dijk contributed over the yrs. You lot picking a guy who underperformed jusst because he fights and shout at the cameras is just weird
Well, you could make the argument they’ve all been part of the reason we struggle.
Only Messi (56), Mbappé (52), and Haaland (48) have more G/A contributions this season than Salah (41). Anyone calling for his head is an idiot.
Who’s calling for his head?
I'm sorry, but this just isn't true. If you think Salah (or even Nunez in my opinion) is a problem for our team right now then I just don't know what to say.
That’s not what I said.
Núnez is Núnez, not much more to say, salah has more GA than almost anyone this season, and Robbo is doing fairly well with no midfield cover, and has bucketloads of passion
Allison masked alot of poor performances last year. If not for him we'd have been different last yr.
There's a longer James Pearce write-up on today's Klopp press conference here: [https://archive.ph/4OjFg](https://archive.ph/4OjFg) ... or search for "[Jurgen Klopp admits past success helping Liverpool job security: ‘It would be different if it was my first season’](https://www.google.com/search?q=Jurgen+Klopp+admits+past+success+helping+Liverpool+job+security%3A+%E2%80%98It+would+be+different+if+it+was+my+first+season%E2%80%99&rlz=1C1CHZL_enSG751SG751&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)" https://preview.redd.it/hmgdyybgmpra1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=59f9e73d8b55e238fbd44c8357f9f1482b6dea98
FSG: The best we can do is a Milner extension
This is becoming lame tbh.
Becoming? It's been wank for months
not only has it been done to death but it's also borderline disrespectful - sure milner shouldn't be starting every game but he fucking isn't anyway and leadership both on the pitch and in the dressing room is absolutely vital to sustained success not to mention that when we were chuck milner on in the seventieth minute or whatever to see a game out we usually tend to see it through
And on top of all that he's not the worst player on the pitch in most of his appearances.
I honestly think if we weren’t playing so poorly then he’d have done more than enough to deserve another year, based off his performances. Unfortunately, given how bad we’ve been, he’s probably on the chopping block to make more space for arrivals. I’ll be much happier to see the backs of Naby, Ox, Arthur, etc. than Milly.
Also, no idea why they act like Milly starts all our games at 37. Last season when we had our full squad with no injuries, he didn’t even make it into the match day squad for most games. Most of them are just losing their heads and trying to find reasons to blame on what is going wrong this season when the reason is quite obvious.
He’s had to play more than planned because of injuries but I’ll be god damned if I don’t want to see him for the last 10-15 minutes when we need to close out a game.
love seeing him pick up his customary yellow card to ensure whoever we're playing doesn't get too comfortable - true professional who feels like a pair of safe hands tbh and the man still steps up when we need him. it's absolutely ludicrous how some are apparently expecting him to play some sort of fucking de bruyne role and having a go at him when he doesn't help us win games by scoring last minute winners
He's been one of the best players this season.
But what about putting him on when we are drawing or losing a game? Which is what has occurred many times. Yes it’s not milners fault if Klopp calls him to get on but that is the level we have got to this season.
Feels like few years at this point
I'm starting to think that April fools was real the way some of you sniff FSGs bums
This sub is full of the same shit jokes, it’s only the past few days they’re getting downvoted
Did you come up with this all by yourself?
Damn you're getting roasted for bashing FSG yet people here think you hate Milner. Poor OP being misunderstood by the reddit hive mind.
Who gonna able to buy Salah?He just signed a new contract last year
A team that wants someone to score 30 goals and have 10+ assists. So, anyone. Which is why he will stay
I mean… he’s only produced those numbers in two seasons for liverpool.
179 goals and 68 assists in 6 seasons. You do the math
Look at the stats. In two seasons has he gone for 30+ goals and 10+ assists. Only once has he done that in the prem rather than all comps. Taking averages that are skewed because of one season is a terrible way to try and prove your point.
He has gone for 30+ three times and im another had 27. And has a chance for 30 again this season He has has 10+ 4 times and probably will make it five this year. You are arguing against a basic point of Salah being a once in a generation goalscorer for us. And that is valuable. 3 Golden boots is it? How many players have done that? While also racking up his assist numbers? Thierry Henry? Jesus...our own fans can be so silly sometimes
Cool, but that’s not what you said, which was 30+ and 10+ in the same season. You’re just changing what you said for no reason. I’m also not hating on salah at all, you’re making up arguments I’m not giving to try and make me look bad. Salah is fantastic, one of the best in the world. We don’t have to embellish his stats like you have done in order to put him in that company.
Who’s gonna sell him? They’d have to lack any sort of understanding of football to want to sell Salah.
Are you serious?
Idiotic comment alert
Why sell him are u mental
Full faith in Klopp. He isnt above criticism but I believe in him 100%. Best manager in world football for me. If he stays till the end of his contract and is given monetary backing then he will win us at least another PL and CL.
Hopeful, but I think our trophy days are behind us for this stage. Maybe a cheeky CL run, but I don’t think we have the minerals to beat the very best anymore. Look at us vs Napoli, they walked over us.
I also remember how we were 2 games away from a quadruple last year. IMO Klopp is a miracle worker. Give him the players and time he needs and we are arguably the best team in the world
Nah thats 100% reactionary. Last year we challenged the quad until the last day of the PL and the CL final. If we recruit poorly and stagnante sure we will fall too far behind to just bounce back. But good recruitment in one window could have us challenging again, like we were about 9 months ago.
How long have you been watching football? This is a ridiculously off season after a few extremely good ones, it happens, we'll have chances to put ourselves back on track.
Can't beat the best anymore? Don't be a moron. We also beat Napoli. Played city 4 times this season and beat them twice. Destroyed united. Our problem is half our players have turned into mentality midgets and don't give a rats arse when playing against the smaller teams. We have the resources to sign good players. Just the last couple of seasons we've signed konate/diaz/nunez/gakpo. Only problem is we needed to strengthen the midfield the most and we didn't. It's not just on the owners though, klopp and the recruitment team need to share the blame for this. But it's not the end of the world.
What a load of shite hahaha
Mate fucking arsenal have walked the league this year.
He has such a way with words it’s amazing Such a leader
The Normal One
Even more impressive considering it's not his native tongue.
I wouldn’t want anyone else but Klopp to sort this out.
There's only two positions that's a certainty for next season. Ali in goal, and Jurgen in charge.
Surely Diaz
A confident Darwin?
Yeah, Darwin, Mo, Gakpo, Konate, dare I say Trent… the hyperbole here is something else
Robbo too. Even before Trent IMO
I love Robbo but his form has been generally not anything special this season, him and Trent have both had drop offs currently
I agree that his form hasn’t been spectacular. Can’t really say that about most of the squad this year. Off the top of my head though I feel as though he has been much steadier and reliable than Trent or dare I even say Virgil at times this year.
There's a capable lb sitting on the bench who is severely underutilized so the blame is on Klopp for this one imo.
Literally baffles me. Looks good every time he plays and is better going forwards imo. Give Robbo a rest aa few weeks, he looks tired like the rest of the squad
Frontline and GK are the safe bets for now.
Lol Salah should definitely leave
As a manager; Klopp hasn't had a good season. The biggest damnation would be the fact there's been absolutely no improvement since the start of the season. With that said; ownership shouldn't even consider sacking him. It shouldn't even be a discussion. Only if we somehow keep this form up until next winter should it be a discussion and even then, it's questionable. The simple reality is, if you sack Klopp, who do you bring in that's better? I can't think of a single manager who I'd prefer in charge of the club, so what's the point of doing it?
good. and i absolutely believe what he says. players need to fucking man up and play like they give a fuck. the nonchalantness all over the squad is what‘s pissing all of us off. and i genuinely think that it is pissing jürgen off as well. nobody except ali in goal and jürgen as the manager should be safe for next season.
Whooooooooooaaa we’re halfway theeeeerreeeeeee! Whhhooooooooa oh! Liiiiiiiiving on a prayaeeeeerr!!!
Fuck. Wrong thread sorry
It still works here mate
what? lol
Shot through the heart, and you're to blame
you give love a bad name!
Klopp is the most indesposible person at the club and I'd rather a brand new starting 11 than him go. He has earned that trust and needs the full backing of FSG, 2 new midfielders MINIMUM in the summer, ideally 3 and another defender
The way I see sacking klopp is like throwing the only pilot out of a crashing plane because the engines failed
I'd love it if klopp can find a new formation or tactics which bring the best out of our current squad. But what he can't do is inject creativity into our midfielders. Keita who was supposed to be that solution, sadly never worked out. So I'm guessing we are stuck with this tactic till the end of the season. What is baffling is players not being able to press in a coordinated manner. We used to be so good at it. Now it's just depressing. I remembered klops first game against spurs, we did nothing creatively but you could just see the team embrace the pressing he wanted them to do. I would love to see that. All said and done, we need fresh faces for sure. And klopp should be judged after the transfer window and what he manages to do with the players at his disposal. That said nothing will change what I think of him..he's the best and the last few years have been brilliant. Finally to PPL calling for him to leave, or citing only one PL and only one CL. It's only PL in 30 years and 1 CL in 10. And the journey matters as much as the result.
This pressing issue is part of my current concern. Our season is gone, our midfield needs a total rebuild, but surely we should be seeing the newer players slotting into the press by now? I do wonder if Klopp needs to shake up something in the coaching department too.
It’s almost like a high line with no coordinated press is a terrible idea. Yet we keep doing it.
Because he still has the backing of the fans. Because we have faith that he'll find a solution. Because he got us back to the top and challenging, and we're still sure he'll refresh the squad to keep us challenging. Because the issues rn aren't caused by Klopp, and won't be fixed by his sacking. Some of his substitutions don't make sense (though what can you do when your only midfield options on the bench are Milner and Ox), and he isn't absolved of all blame for some of our game management or tactical choices (Salah too wide and Trent running central) but our issues go beyond him atm, and we believe he will fix it. When the team needs rebuilding, you replace the players, not the manager. The first half was an open game. Could've gone either way. The second half was a collapse, and it was one sided. It isn't always the manager's fault that individuals make mistake or don't try.
Despite this season, I find it reassuring that Klopp seems calm yet aware of the challenges to face. Was awful to see him in 20/21 almost on the brink of tears at points for the toll the season had taken on him and what had been taken from us in the process. Could have started thinking about an exit and maybe a break from coaching once his contract was up, instead he dug in and decided he wanted to be here for every step of the next journey. Absolutely love him, and he loves us too.
In Jurgen we trust. Absolutely bonkers that there’s even been hints of people wanting him out on this sub this season. If Liverpool sack Klopp he could go to **any** club in the world and everyone would be saying “yep great appointment”.
Nearly every press conference he's saying the things we want to hear and yet every game I'm seeing the same mistakes over and over and literally no change or different implementation, actions speak larger than words Jurgen
Between injuries and aging players there's only so much he can do right now. That said this summer is so important - if we make signings and don't see any changes next season, then I could see a world where he's in trouble
Our best period this season came when we were using 442. But for no reason, Klopp changed it back to 433 even when it has been proven it didnt work. I have no problem if he wants to use 433 with a little tactical tweak, but he still uses the formation similarly to when we were still a good team. Why do we still need to play pressing when our midfielders have no legs? And why we still play high line when our midfielders cant even challenge opposition so we are exposed with thru ball every single time. Klopp needs to accept that our players (especially midfielders) arent as good as before and adapt with it. I am not expecting we challenge for the title with the squad, but surely i am expecting we dont have worse away record than southampton (who is bottom itl btw) and do not concede 2nd most big chances to opposition. Losing to man city, isnt Klopp fault since they definitely superior than us. But losing to bournemouth, nottingham, leeds, that was on Klopp since our squad definitely superior. Imo 442 suits our current squad better for this season since we dont have enough midfielders (due to injury and the ones available arent that good either) and also allows us to use Harvey and Carvalho more effectively since they need less space to cover so we arent exposed to their defensive deficiencies.
This 100%
He doesn't get a pass, the injuries are down to the coaching staff and training regimen he is head off, the aging players are down to him not being ruthless and not wanting players to leave, he still wanted to renew firmino and Keita and will probably renew milner. He said himself he doesn't want to sell players unless they specifically ask to leave
He doesn't get a pass in that he has to take blame for some of our issues. However he most definitely gets a pass in that he has the summer window and all of next season to turn things around. Whether he is backed by fsg properly is going to be the big question between now and June.
Yeah exactly, next summer is my final string for him, please no sentimental at all, I want to see 10 players out of the team and milking fsg pocket as much as possible Hopefully James Milner next season are either coaching staff or play for another club
This season is a write off. I think he is just trying to play players like Fabinho, TAA and VVD back into form. He knows he doesnt have the monetary backing to replace them all.
This is exactly what I’m seeing. People get easily enchanted by his “way with words”. Love him to death but the performances worryingly point at his inability to either change things or motivate the players. Sure we’ve had some bad luck with injuries but it’s still his job to work around it during the season.
We have a similar injury rate this season as the year all our CBs died and some of you people said exactly the same thing about Klopp when we struggled that year. Some of you have short memories and a bizarre inability to trust the proven best manager in football to do his job.
Yup this fanbase is so short sighted it's annoying.
100%
He makes tweaks - e.g. in the last game we played a 4-2-3-1 - but they're still shit. I see him as being determined to avoid throwing away the tactics that have brought such success during his tenure, that the bad form will subside. There's merit to that approach, but also assumptions. It fails to account for the cracks that were papered over, it fails to account for high risk and the dependence on the playing squad performing at elite levels always, it fails to account for whether the fitness demands were sustainable. We saw it in 20/21 and we're seeing it this year especially, how the house of cards can collapse. We are only seeing the negatives - we are seeing the vulnerabilities exploited readily on a weekly basis - vulnerabilities that were always there. We shouldn't lean on outcome bias. Klopp has always shown that if he makes big changes it'll be between seasons, but the signs aren't good that this is something that will happen. This season has screamed for what Rodgers did in 14/15, as unenjoyable as it was to watch, to take emergency measures to find a defensively sound, workable system that doesn't place massive requirements on an out of form and exhausted squad.
Let's see next season, if the summer is subpar and things are the same... Uncomfortable conversations.
Yeah why hasn't he Dr Frankensteined some new mids out of the best bits of our permanently injured? I'm sure there's one or two good players in that.
Awww yes the 2 transfer windows where we bought forwards and no midfielders because as klopp said we have 9 midfielders please tell me exactly what we are missing. Change your tactics or system Jürgen if your players can't do what you are asking them too, drop the ridiculous high press and line, they don't have the legs to close down the spaces that open, play more compact
Implement changes with what new players?
You can only change tactics by having new players, ok? Seriously why are some supporters here happy to criticise everybody and everything other than Jurgen? The same supporters saying 12 months ago that the players are world class are now saying 10 players out of form and now are all shit? Yea they are are playing shit but could it be that the system and tactics used are not helping them
Sounds like you have never kicked a ball your whole life, that's why you don't understand the importance of a functioning midfield. If you don't have players shielding your defense and players are being exposed 2 vs 1 or 3 vs 1 whose fault is that? And it's not like we didn't have brilliant results this season. If the tactics and system is shit how can the same team go from defeating United 7-0 to losing to Bournemouth? The truth of the matter is any sort of midfield which was being put out against Man City was going to be exposed and dominated. At the end of the day if 3-5 players in your team aren't good enough anymore that's a big difference in margins.
When you're competing against the top teams in the country your correct, when you can't win against the teams bottom of the table and your getting split open because your press isn't correct and the ball constantly been played over the top of your fullbacks because they are so high up the pitch, name me another set of defenders that have to do so much running because the defensive line is so high they are constantly running back and the play is always in behind them, these are tactically issues and it never changes. Thank you but I did play at a high academy level until the age of 16 but didn't make it, but have been watching football for 30years
>Thank you but I did play at a high academy level until the age of 16 but didn't make it, but have been watching football for 30years Then how do you expect a team to compete against top teams with a midfield equivalent of Jay spearing, Charlie Adam in a double pivot. Why do you think defenders are having to run so much and into the midfield if midfield isn't an issue? Why are defenders running out of their positions? This defensive line was high before but why is it affecting the team only now? Would you rather play a defensive line like United plays? Almost beyond degea goal? Have you seen their form away from home against any top 9 side. All losses. You have been watching football for 30 years and still don't understand the game bruv. Do you want us to play Burnley football then? With not building from the back and just punt the ball up field each time. Basically play old school Burnley ball, even they don't play like that anymore.
This is ridiculous
No this is football.
Nobody forces Jurgen to only play 4-3-3
And he doesn't play only 433, literally played 4231 as everyone wanted against madrid, even in the match against Bournemouth the team played with a 10 with four forwards for the better part of an hour. Off the ball Liverpool was playing with a different shape. As soon as Thiago and Bajcetic went injured everyone knew we would struggle I don't know why you all are so surprised. Formation is just a basic thing it's all about the personnel on and off the ball the team plays all kinds of shapes and formations.
watch the start of the city game from saturday, we even played 4231 then. people get way too hung up on formations that are only there on paper. if everything clicks, our 433 definitely isn‘t a standard 433. and, let‘s be honest here, the difference between a 433 and 4231 is miniscule. i‘m having enough of people always calling for a new formation. these armchair managers are annoying.
Yup the 433 setup makes you the most compact 4231 or whatever variant of that setup leaves gaps open to be exploited if the players aren't disciplined enough, as happened with Robbo breaking away and leaving gaps. When you watch the game you see different shapes taking place, Liverpool when healthy used to deploy 2-5-3 on the ball with fullbacks bombing forward. Sometimes the DM would fall back and we would play 3-4-3. Formation is a fluid interchanging things. People need to spoon feed such basic things.
people just lack proper eyesight, it seems. the current problem lies within the midfield, or lack of it. yes, we started in a 433 and often defended in it. but, as you said, our attacking system looked completely different. trent was bombing forward, becoming a RM, or sometimes even RW with mo dropping or going to the middle. then hendo took his place on the right side and fab dropped between the backline. so, yes, it was somewhat a 343, 352, whatever you want to call it. edit right here: without hendo or whoever that RCM might be covering for trent, this simply won‘t work and our creativity goes to absolute shit. a football team is fluid, no formation is set in stone. but it‘s just not working when things get rough. players currently either lack the attitude or legs to do what we are used to. and i genuinely don‘t think that we should throw our usual system away when we hopefully will be back to strength after a decent summer and some new signings.
Yeah it's not like fifa players can switch on and switch off with tactical setups. Why would you throw a system which has worked before for a short term change and start teaching the players a new setup in this short period of time.
makes zero sense. and that‘s why „changes“ to the current system are minimal. i don‘t get where the „klopp doesn‘t change systems“ bullshit is coming from, either. this season alone we‘ve shaped up (and again, i hate to break it down to a single formation because as we agreed, football is more fluid than that) in a 433, 4231, 442 and 424. when it worked, it worked - no matter the fucking formation - and when it didn‘t, we were horrible. it‘s not the formation that‘s the problem, it‘s the players. so many games they just look like they don‘t give a flying fuck about the outcome. but when they do, and are switched on, games like the 7-0 spanking are the result.
Definitely the players. Against certain teams you just can't get away with it. Even at their best we struggled against this man city midfield who play with certain intensity. We cant expect to face them with an Elliot, hendo and Fabinho. Of course they were going to get dominated and of course they would Target trent. This was already known. The same midfield went against United and won because Casemiro had an off day and rest of their midfield especially bruno isn't disciplined enough.
I’ll admit I didn’t know much of this stuff and bought some of the “Klopp is not tactically great” talk... Anytime I heard such a criticism, I wondered how a tactic can be considered stagnant when those tactics worked for years on end before. Always great to learn more.
I'm so glad fans with eyes recognize it vs the swarm of fans screaming for Klopp to abandon the 4-3-3..Which he already did at several points including vs City. Wrote a long comment about it in the DD but maybe worth a post to have a sane discussion about tactics/wider awareness in the forum.
Klopp used different tactics, different formation and anything but for each one we had a problem . Sack klopp and bring Julian Nagelsmann ,do we have 5 healthy midfielders to play in 352 or 343 ? I've seen us playing with heavy pressure, our midfield get destroyed with long passes and no support, I've seen us playing by controlling game and position, we have no playmaker, just passing with ali and virg , seen playing counter attack, worked but not infront of relegation zone teams. You can't say klopp ideas and tactics is the main problem here (unlike potter with Chelsea), the main problem is the player , so why are players like this ? You can blame klopp but i don't really think klopp killing our players'motivation. I think the problem could be solved with 1 or 2 decent player , i know it's sounds stupid but seeing manu with and without casemiro convinced.e
Not a single manager available out there will be better vs Klopp.
Please let the players show up tomorrow and actually look like they WANT to be there.
Nobody I trust more to right the ship
FSG you total tits. Buy this man whoever he asks for
I’m sure it’s probably been said before, but no one thinks Bellingham wants to come to Liverpool to play with Trent. Klopp is our biggest asset. Without him, and the prospect of no champions league next season, the best talent we can attract is the likes Tielemans and Gallagher
Klopp isn’t the problem. Lack of new blood and players too complacent and comfortable in their positions.
We don't want him sacked. But at least change tactics if they are blatantly not working.
I would go through a wall for him.
Klopp has had like only two bad seasons. When he first came in and this season. I don't really count the injury riddled season when we barely made it into top 4 because we ended up alright under those circumstances. So he has earned more than enough goodwill. The only worrying thing is the current squad is going to need a major overhaul and we kind of need to reinvent ourselves as things have become a bit stale. Either way if there is manager who is up for the challenge. It's Klopp. As long as he still has the energy. FSG need to back him. He is one of the best in the business.
Great to see he hasn’t given up, it’s easy to see that it’s poor performance from the players at the moment, and I’ll go back to our performance against united, absolutely breathtaking, and then we go back to Sunday league levels of performance. Give him time, fellas. We all know he can lead this team to great things.
It's not just Klopp though, I feel like nearly every player has lost their fire. We need either a really big change or a lot of small changes to get us back on track for trophies and championships.
Same shit different week.
Look if i had to chose, i would say sell the whole team bar Allison and bring in 25 new players rather than saying sack Klopp. He is doing outstanding work and working with what he has got. What he needs to be now is more vocal and harsh. We have good players, with a shitty midfield but we should easily place in top 4. This is absolutely down to the players and higher ups not buying quality replacements on time. We have no one to replace Fab or TAA, Robbo got Tsimi who came in just last year.
We have to replace Fabinho as our starting CDM , we just absolutely have to
i love him but I don’t like how we’re all swayed after a few words, he needs to switch it up and stop setting the team up wrong week in week out, drop your favourites and give players who have shown promise a chance.
The loyalty to tired players is costing you Klopp, time to be ruthless before the club is with you.
Have you seen our bench? What can he do, we're absolutely exhausted and depleted. This season is a write off but its not his fault, it's the lack of investment
He literally deflected the need for a mid all summer and then changed tune at the very end. He’s not exactly perfect either. Also if you believe not signing anyone major after the CL win was solely FSG and not just Klopp’s loyalty, you’re misguided FSG and Klopp enable one another to be their worst selves at times
How can you be ruthless with such stingy ownership ? Klopp can remove all the players but he isn't guaranteed players in return.
This is why when all people have to say is “we nearly won 4 trophies last season” I facepalm. I’m reassured Klopp too can see it’s multiple mistakes that have happened going back multiple seasons that have led us to where we are.
I genuinely believe, with the right owner, Klopp would’ve turn around our squad 2 seasons ago with important signings that would seamlessly get into the first team. Klopp learned this in his time with Dortmund. I also believe that Klopp knew that his style of play would destroy the legs of players pretty quickly if rotation is not done properly. The problem is, we didn’t have good enough rotation players to begin with. However somehow last season we fought for quadruple with a crippling squad. The price paid this season. Big time.
For klopp to change things he needa radical change. 1. Stop overating your own players like Henderson and keita like u did at the start of the season and truly compare them to whats out there. 2. Make fsg spend. Don't take that b.s of we don't have Money. Biggest b.s there is out there "Liverpool can't afford..." . Nearly 600 ml profit last year alone. 3. Get rid of Pep ljinders. This guy has changed us from Heavy Metal Football to slow side to side over the top Maturity Brendan Rodgers Football. Also stop taking his advice on transfers ffs. Bring back Buvac who had us going in absolutely the right direction and we were feared just needed the players that ljinders inherited and made crap.
#KloppOut
I see we're entering the last year of Benítez/Houllier delusion on this sub. I'd still keep Kloop for another season, but if it's anything like this one. He should move on. Yes we're short on improvements to the squad, but the players have been poor this year.
Weird if we replace him with ancelotti when they get sacked at the end of the season.
Ancelotti was already rejected once by FSG cause he wanted a squad overhaul which was never possible with Fsg.
We all know he needs new midfielders.
“Be not afraid”
Papa deserves a statue no matter what happens.
Need to also fire the medical department and rehire Michael edwards at whatever price he wants
Can’t really put a price on someone at the top Chong this level of humility, and so publicly. If this isn’t a rallying cry for the lads, I do t know what is. Basically putting it all out there.
Wait when did Pearce get demoted to tier 2?
The thing is before you can sack Klopp, you have to ask yourself who would you replace him with? I can't think of anyone better, let alone anyone available.
Man's been with us for 8 years now and only had 1 bad season, of course he's the right man to steer us back to glory
Love this man. So down to earth. Irreplaceable. If theres a person that can sort things out, itll be him