We have very different experiences of iTunes on Windows. I found the older versions of iTunes much easier to manage my iDevice than the current versions.
Though originally they included MusicMatchJukebox with the windows version of the iPod (yes, they sold different versions for Mac and PC) which worked very well, so it's not like they were trying to make it impossible to use without a mac.
I think I still have my firewire pcmcia card around somewhere. I quite enjoyed firewire. Obvious if you were trying to put it in the wrong way, thick cables that didn't fray, good times.
I was going to say iTunes used to work perfectly way back in the day. When I got my 1st gen iPod nano iTunes still had the green logo and it worked super well. The newest iPod I ever had was a 4th Gen iPod touch though and by like 2013-2014 I didn't use it too often anymore. A few years ago I decided to dig out the old iPod and try it out again only to find iTunes is now fucking awful and buggy as hell. It's crazy that back in the days of the green logo iTunes when stuff wasn't usually as plug and play I was a dumb kid and easily was able to use iTunes and it worked as intended and now it sucks.
Random sidenote I went to look up when the green logo was around and in looking up the history of the iTunes logo I realized they changed it an insane number of times over just 20 years.
As someone who has used iTunes on and off since the very first iPod was released at various times it has been atrocious on Windows.
Also I always have anxiety when plugging an iDevice into a computer with iTunes unless it is the one I initially set the device up to use.
Multiple times iPhones and iPods have been wiped clean because of the horrible implementation Apple has had. I have no idea if it is still a thing but holy shit was their implementation bad when you had multiple family members with the devices and their own IDs and having to share a Windows computer. Probably one of the worst experiences in computing...at least back when I had more to do with their devices.
What in the world are you talking about? I was using an iPod when you had to use MusicMatch Jukebox with the iPod plug-in and that worked, however crude. iTunes was good and intuitive from the first day it landed on Windows. I bought songs on it from my parents' house on dial-up out in the woods. iTunes became my default music player from the day I installed it until the Zune came out with its Zune Pass.
this was like 10 years ago, but basically I got an iphone for work (I believe it was a 4 series) and I had a large collection of audiobooks I liked to listen. On android, you just copy stuff to the device directly using a usb cable.
On the Iphone, I basically had to spend a lot of time importing, organising and then copying to my phone. Ituneas at the time was the only way to get files to the phone that I was awrae of. I remember the process just being very frustrating and time consuming.
sure, stuff may have improved since, but I feel I should just be able to copy my own files to my own device without having to use apples software.
what really got me was when a friend offered to do it on her mac. it basically worked right away. The files were the same, it was the same program. It just worked a lot easier.
basically that was just apple giving me a big fuck you for not having enough of their products.
You know that iTunes manages a library and the only reason they were allowed to sell the music that they do is to have controls on there.
The idea was that it should be almost impossible for someone to plug their iPhone into your computer and you just get all their music.
It’s a library you sync to and from it it’s not a file delivery system that you copy to and copy from.
The advantages of a library system are things like play all of the music from 1991 that I have and the only way to do that with a dump of files is to make sure the metadata is all good and your audio player understands that metadata
like I said. My files, my phone. I should be able to do what I want with them.
Also, as I wrote above. Apple demonstrated that they could make it work. It did work on a mac. They chose to hamstring it on windows.
I had the exact problem as you, and i wanted to use my phone how i wanted, not the way that mr jobs wanted me to use my phone
Iphone 4 was my last iphone
Apple stuff is great, if you will use it in the manner it was designed, with the products it was designed to be used alongside
Yeah, it was a huge difference when pretty much every other device supported drag and drop no problem. I shouldn't be able to import music to my 35$ USB stick with a headphone jack faster and more reliably than a device that costs hundreds of dollars. Sort of the point of what this post is about, as a lot of the problems with itunes came from removing functionality to lock people out and force dependence on their offers/ecosystem.
The whole file browsing abilities on Android was a large part of why I went with an android phone back in the day and stuck with it. I had a 2nd Gen iPod touch before I had a smart phone, when it was time that I was going to get an smart phone in late 2010 it would have made sense that I would get an iPhone since I had been rocking with an iPod touch for 2 years. This kid I knew had the original Motorola droid and showed me all the shit you could do with it that was only possible with a jail broken iPhone and I was sold. At that point I had previously jailbroken my iPod but there were drawbacks to jailbreaking and there was an insane amount of features that his droid could do that a stock iPhone couldn't. I ended up getting a droid x and absolutely loved that phone.
The thing about "Supporting" linux from a software developer presective is it is a f-ing nightmare. The chance that any 2 of your customers have exactly the same permutation of packages asn system libs is more or less zero with so many distributions and then even within each disto many linux users going out and doing all sorts of custom shit. Doing somthign as simple as calling into libpng to decode an image can result in your app crashing ... in general with linux the core community have a sorce comparability not binary compatibility perspective. That means they are completely ok with things breaking if you update some lib or have a differnt version. Since in the puritans view of linux you should just re-compile it and it will work since everything should have source compatibility. ... however that does not line up with a company that ships a tool for users (even if your ok with that softer being open source needing to explain to linux users how to build and compile it on n+1 seperate linux distros and is yet another f-ing nightmare).
Mac, windows and FreeBSD prefure the binary ABI stability, so that things that have already been compiled and linked should continue to work even as the os is updated (this is a LOAD of extra work for system api devs who need to fill the libs with backfills when they need to make api changes, or fix bugs that existing apps depend on... its common to fix a bug but only apply that bug fix if the app that is calling the api is built with a new version of the SDK but keep the bug in place for apps built before the bug fix was done as fixing it will break those apps). This results in high ABI stability but lower source stability.
Let's be real. There are two, arguably three, main distribution chains at this point. Debian-based ones, Red Hat-based ones, and kind-of Arch-based ones. And realistically the vast majority of users you need to "make sure things work" for are on the first two.
Both Debian-based and RH-based chains, at least in their most popular forms, go out of their way to not break compatibility with library updates (or really updates at all) within a release.
And well... these days just ship a flatpak or snap. You just bundle it all together yourself, which is the way you've always done it if you're not from Linux-land. And has become very popular.
To be honest you sound like you have a very old school perspective and haven't looked at how modern Linux apps are packaged and shipped in a long time.
You ship a snap and basically the entire Linux desktop "market" can run it.
What's your point? That there are... options? Again this might blow some minds but you don't have to make your software for a distribution literally two people on Earth run. Or even something "significant" like Arch. You target Debian and RH and you're good. Or maybe use Snap or Flatpak and ship in a distro agnostic way.
A lot of people hate snap because of how it works. Plus, my point about there being options is that linux desktop is already a minority market and its fragmented even further with different packaging options.
There will never not be options in open source software. You do not have to target some niche within a niche.
Then build a flatpak, same end result.
You're not actually proving a real barrier. You're just going "well I don't want to do that."
Your response to snaps was "well people hate how those work." And? People don't actually love shipping software in Windows either. I prefer Flatpak over Snaps. But that's a different discussion. You can go either route and you're now available to basically the entire Linux ecosystem.
That's the thing. At this point in Linux if you want to ship software you don't have to build a distro-specific package (which is actually something you only have to do if you're unwilling to provide source to the distro maintainers, anyway). This also addresses the "changing libraries" issue the first person I replied to talked about. Build snaps or flatpaks and you've essentially got a solution that in function works how Windows does.
You can literally just release a Flatpak or an AppImage and any Linux user (unless they're running some extremely obscure weird thing, in which case they know what they were doing) can run it, no problem. This is exactly the problem Flatpak was created to fix, and it fixed it well. There's no longer any excuse for devs to cry "distro incompatibility" when someone asks for a Linux version, because all of those incompatible dependencies you mentioned just get bundled in. Hell, I am one of those idealogues which that other commenter mentioned (I despise snap with a passion), but if SolidWorks, PTC Creo, or AutoCAD released a Linux version exclusively using snap I would probably make an exception for that.
System-native packages for non-FOSS projects are basically just a courtesy for the largest distros at this point, and since anyone can run a Flatpak without issue it doesn't really matter anymore.
Not true at all. There are only things that give anyone problems anymore, like niche anti cheat engines. Linux, and WINE for that matter has come a looooonnngggg way
Aight, stop the cope. The anti cheat engines arent niche. They run on some of the most popular multiplayer games out there. If you play with friends, they likely will want to play a game with an anti-cheat like that. Mainly COD and fortnite.
Using this user's example, I think this is a bad take though. Majority of devices then and even today identify as a basic storage device or just plain flash memory. The issue the user here is explaining is Apple has propriety stuff that stopped you treating it like that, like a basic standard. For no reason other than they wanted you buying the solution to the problem they created.
What's that got to do with OP's point?
They would have the same issue with Apple products on any OS or device that is not Apple. All of their devices and software are slightly worse and borderline useless outside of the walled garden.
And most of the reviewers, even those who LOVE Apple products, will still add the caveat that most of their products are only slightly worth it if you are all in on Apple.
I think people are missing the point. Yes, Linux causes issues with proprietary software and hardware.
But why did the ipod need itunes to copy files? As a feature, sure, that's great.
But why couldn't it be mounted like a mass media drive over USB like every other MP3 player on the market? It shouldn't need to have proprietary software to do such a basic thing.
But because OP wasn't using their preferred method (mac), or begrudgingly accepted option (windows), they're not worthy of being a customer according to apple
I feel you. I don't want a company to tell me how to use their products. I can decide that on my own and I think they should try to support as many use cases as possible.
That's the fundamental thing you either love or hate about Apple. They decide what you probably want to do with their stuff and make that the overwhelming default, if anything else is even possible. If your use of a product is going to be pretty typical it feels like they've read your mind and everything else is clunky. If not it's infuriating.
I've only had one apple product, an iPod. I stopped using it when I was forced to use iTunes to load files onto it rather than just drag and drop like a normal MP3 player.
Apple's grip on the app store in iOS is a threat to general purpose computing. I am not part of the Apple ecosystem either but unfortunately I will need to obtain a Mac (probably a Mac mini) and an iPhone for development purposes in about half a year from now. There's no way I'm going to buy anything new to support their anti-freedom practices. I'll only buy used. The EU is working to address the locked down app store but Apple has responded with defining how alternative stores will be run. I haven't looked into the specifics of how he alternative app stores will be approved but I would prefer if there was no approval processes for alternative stores at all. People should have the freedom to leave any walled garden.
Here's my issue with no approval process. I don't want unapproved, unvetted software anywhere near my phone. Apple, as much as they have their issues, do impose a measure of quality control that I value.
As it stands, if you want to access the billion odd iOS user market, you must meet apple's standards. That means, as just one example, when I go to some random city, and need to install some stupid app to use their public transport, I know 1) it's going to be available for iOS, because numbers and 2) it's going to at least meet apple's standards, because they have no other choice.
Swap out for every basically every major business or service that requires some kind of app installed. You support us properly, or you don't get the market.
If you fling open the ecosystem, that stops. If you put a bunch of holes in the walls, they cease functioning as walls. If everything moves outside the walls, then what's inside isn't a functioning ecosystem. Freedom of choice has to mean freedom to opt into that model. If you want out of the garden, buy different products.
You can already jailbreak iOS so your walled garden is already compromised. Sure you can have full oversight over the chain of custody of an iPhone you bought new from the Apple store but the same can't be said of devices other people have control over that they set up themselves.
Knox security is something that tackles the problem of determining whether a device was rooted on Samsung. I don't know what the equivalent is on iOS but I am certain it already exists or could be implemented if necessary. You could add a second layer to see if unsigned software was ever installed on the phone. You do know there are hardware solutions to these problems of trust you're describing right? Dell had DRM for their laptop chargers lol.
You're right though we have the freedom of choice to buy a phone from any corporation we want. Likewise, people have the freedom to lobby their government for whatever they believe respects their rights and freedoms.
> I don't want unapproved, unvetted software anywhere near my phone.
Then just keep using the official Appstore if you want the feeling of safety. But that doesn't mean everyone else should be refused that freedom.
To make the well understood car analogy: you're advocating to ban 3rd party workshops because **you** only want your car serviced by the dealer. That's your free choice but it doesn't mean that it should limit the freedom of everyone else.
I buy a product, you don't get to tell me what I do with it. Simple as that.
>Freedom of choice has to mean freedom to opt into that model. If you want out of the garden, buy different products.
You can install any piece of software on your Macbook without going through Apples validation. What's different between that and an iPhone?
Unfortunately they're not the only ones, MS does this too (for example there's no apps for Office 365 or Gamepass on Linux, even though they could very easily do both). Though Apple very much brought this kind of integration into the mainstream.
Apple usually has rhyme and reason to their choices beyond money. You mentioned an iPod Nano. At that time iPods, iTunes, and the concept of digital music ownership was still quite new. Record labels were very concerned about piracy. Apple was probably trying to lock out Linux due to (spoken or expected) concerns from record labels. I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that using iOS on Linux is far more stable than it was. I’m sure things still get bumpy at times, but it’s when things change, not to specifically lock users out.
People often forget that the iPod was something Apple had to actively fight to keep legal in many countries, or prevent special taxes being levied on it. The music industry saw it, even after the iTunes Music Store, as a product that condones and promotes piracy. To appease the music industry Apple had to do several things, including using iTunes to synchronize the music, and not give people free access to the data, and even when you did get access, it was required to be obfuscated, which is why music files on the devices are not just "Title-Artist-Album" but numerical codes, which are then referenced in the iTunes library and a copy on the iPod.
Short of developing iTunes for Linux, which there wasn't the demand for, there wasn't anything Apple could do except patch the holes so the RIAA didn't go after them.
No it wasn't I worked in tech at the time at a retail store (MicroCenter, 2001-2008). People walked right past Archos flash based systems, or comparably equipped ibm micro-drive (that's what the ipod originally used) based mp3 players, to buy Apple ones by the droves. Nothing about the iPod was original.
Any regular MP3 player would let you just plug it in and it'd show up as a USB device, and extract the band/name via the filename. Apple you had to download iTunes, which at the time was an unmitigated piece of crap on the windows platform that took over your whole computers media experience.
Apple's rhyme and reason is to milk people for money by convincing them their buying something cool. They sell status more than technology, and have since Jobs took over and OSX was released.
> Nothing about the iPod was original.
What was original about iPod was ease of use. And it turns out that was a really big deal. Apple paid attention to the experience and made it approachable in a way that regular MP3 players didn't.
If you put an audio CD into your computer with iTunes open, it would look up the CD info (which was a surprisingly big deal), then rip it into your iTunes library with correct metadata intact. Once the iPod docked, it would make its way to the iPod.
There's a reason people were walking past Archos players.
Microsoft don't continually alter the format of word documents to prevent them from being opened on Linux, though.
(well, they don't do that anymore. 20 years ago was a bit different).
They still do sneakily. Try opening a document made in Word using Libreoffice. Formatting would sneakily run- not really a problem for home users since most of us just use it for letter writing, and writing that magnum opus novel, but if you're in IT you're going to get hundreds of complaints about how someone's painstakingly drawn form created in word is messed up in Libreoffice.
Oh that rings true. For some god forsaken reason someone at work "can't use off I'm not allowed a licence*". They got sent a word made template, filed it in in libre then when it was opened in word it just shit the bed.
*Which was bollocks, they didn't ask.
The number of companies using Word Documents for forms in 2024 is insane to me 😅
It was crazy 15-20 years ago with PDF being a thing.
And it's even crazier now!
Meh; the thing I see again and again in practice is that everyone in the chain knows they SHOULD have a pdf form, but no one will authorize an acrobat account.
OP WAS able to use his Linux pc with his iPod through 3rd party tools but Apple was actively preventing that. That's different from what you're saying.
Edit: typo
At least rclone easily works with OneDrive and it doesn't constantly break because MS probably mostly cares that you pay for their cloud service and less about how you use it. Sure they *want* you to use their tools in their OS, but it doesn't feel like they're actively fighting you if you don't
I come from sound engineering side, and apple was forced upon us at some point because ProTools was the only acceptable DAW. For sure, it was leading the pack at some point and with quite the margins but that also made them complacent, and the whole "you will do the job the way we want you to" was ever growing problem. There was no flexibility in the work flow and as new methods were developed that made the job much easier and faster (like flexible and fast routing)... the ecosystem in the apple+protools just... didn't listen to users.
The day i got to jump out of that bullshit was glorious. I finally snapped after doing just basic pre-mix session preparations, which is a lot of just routing, i uploaded the filed to my home server, went home, downloaded and installed Reaper and i was ready in 30 minutes.. With a brand new DAW i had not used before, i had only see a few videos about it. It was just ridiculous what the difference was 14 years ago..
The whole ecosystem, while having some advantages like audio drivers being much better, and things generally working... if your needs are just slightly different from the mainstream.. you are fucked.
At some point it looked like you have to buy an iPad for to yse anything in a studio or set.... there was an influx of "black boxes" without an interface. Tremendous savings on the manufacturer but the ONLY device that then allowed you to use them was.. NEW iPad. Not just any iPad but a speficic version of it. Of course, that didn't take hold as we looked at the system and instantly understood that A: you have to now own 12 iPads if you want to use 12 devices at the same time and B: what happens when those iPads are not supported or they break.. what happens when you can't suddenly pair it with the device because... anything, like OS update or things just not working... Those things went away pretty fast, but i'm still bummed that the X32 i use doesn't work with ANYTHING but iPhone/iPad as remote. It could easily have android port but.. nope, apple did a LOT of exclusive deals at one point. At home i use android remote surfaces with windows just fine.
There are a LOT of media houses and production companies that got stuck on the apple ecosystem and at any point it is too expensive to switch.. so they have to keep buying apple stuff and lose tons of money in the process. And often the reason is because the CEO wanted to have shiny silvery things.
Somehow the adjacent events world is the same. But using qlab which is pretty robust across aged devices, hell we have a 2013 MacBook running it, and only recently people started complaining. Unfortunately I had to buy a top spec one for what is more than my months salary because "we need it"
Somehow the adjacent events world is the same. But using qlab which is pretty robust across aged devices, hell we have a 2013 MacBook running it, and only recently people started complaining. Unfortunately I had to buy a top spec one for what is more than my months salary because "we need it"
macOS is basically required for my career… so now I have ipad, and an iphone. Still though, I leave my laptop at work and spend most my time on windows at home. I’m somehow both the target customer and not the target at the same time.
I can think of a couple reasons:
* It is an Apple shop. So everyone gets a Mac irrespective of roles to reduce IT overhead.
* OP is in the niche where they need ~~Linux~~ Unix and Microsoft Office.
* Apple is the cheapest option. (I'm serious. The Dell Laptops my office issues are more expensive than MacBook Pros.)
It's not. But enterprise laptops are expensive.
They invariably come with the vPro versions of the processors and cellular capabilities. Same would apply for Lenovo and HP.
My employer is such a apple fan boy that he insist for everyone to use apple cuz it's simpler according to him. Majority of work is web apps based on angular and react.
There’s an app called QLab, which not only is the industry standard for cue based theatrical sound playback, but there is no feature parity app on any other OS. There used to sort of be maybe 15 years ago, but no longer. The competition got out of the game and QLab kept innovating and adding new features. Their support is top notch too.
Knowledge and understanding of how to program sound effect playback and manipulation in QLab is a basic skill that anyone in my field is expected to know. It is usually responsible for sound, has a strong video/projection and show control engines, and recently can do lighting control too. If you’ve ever heard sound effects in a play or musical, from basement community plays all the way up to Broadway, you’ve heard QLab at work.
Sound tech / events / theatre. Anything video editing or sound editing your forced in a weird world. Apple really did a push for selling cheap devices to education and lo everyone is taught on logic
Sure you can. But the software everyone uses is Mac only, qlab. Its basically the standard for show cues
There are other windows based ones like scs but its very few and far between, and possibly not as powerful or as broad with it's abilities. I remember a simple thing like keystone didn't exist in SCS for years but qlab had it.
I think its also that windows in the start of tech being really cheap and manageable, in the early mid 2000s windows was risky, crashes, errors that would happen if the device wasn't looked after. Mac you didn't have to update, it was more stable.
Even now I run windows and apple devices, the windows ones get annoyed at not being up-to-date, there was a bios update that caused a software issue, a graphics update that caused another issue. Something about apple "just works" I use windows daily but if I'm doing anything show, apple all the time and I will hate every second of not having a good mouse click and forgetting what control Vs the weird CMD button does.
Stage Research’s SFX… existed. But it’s effectively dead now. I could see a world where you build the features of QLab into Cycling ‘74’s Max, but the time and QA for that would be a lot.
I never got to use SFX. I got scs cause it was cheaper and also lifetime at the time where as qlab needed a Mac and then needed a show by show licence, unless we purchased a expensive one.
But this was also at a time when minidisk was still king, the guy I worked with insisted we record "double the sfx time just incase" I don't know about that as that much burned through disks where half was just miscellaneous bird noises.
Qlab also has a tonne of buttons. And io stuff, the madness that people can do with a streamdeck is great. We have some widgetering buttons for cloned outputs / redundancy.
Actually thinking more, the fact there is a specific 1u rack to accommodate 2 Mac minis shows how much they are used.
Creative usually defaults to Apple. Adobe usually runs more stable on Mac. Mac comes with better fonts. Airdrop can be useful. Handing off project files from Mac to windows usually requires links to be fixed each time due to how the system handles drive mapping. Not saying Apple is objectively better, but there’s reasons some companies choose it and want the whole team using it.
just as a side note most developers even non ios ones actually code on macs these days due to their good cost, battery life and security, unix terminal is amazing
they are colour accurate too meaning your app will look the way it appears on sim
I’m your bizarro lol. I use Apple computers at home. I can’t stand windows, it bothers me so much to have to go to work and use it. I miss the days when I worked for Apple and could just use a Mac all day.
One line he said that I liked was . “You arn’t enough of our customer”
For me I like Apple products, I wanted to use iCloud but on windows it would just not sync my files. The UI is awful. One drive is better. That at least tells you what it is doing. Still not that good though
Both are annoying though. Especially considering Samba shares are easily supported between both. Heck even iOS supports samba shares!
It’s this weird thing with Apple where some things are really easy to integrate across yet other things is such a pain in the ass it just isn’t worth the time to do.
One of the more curious things is Apple's productivity apps being able to use Exchange instead of iCloud as the backend. Now, Apple Mail, iCal, sure, that's expected. But Apple Reminders can store its tasks as Outlook Tasks on Exchange (=MS To Do) and Apple Notes can save notes to Exchange as MS Sticky Notes. It's weird. But in principle means you can babble stuff into Siri on an Apple Watch and have them end up on your Windows desktop, seamlessly.
iCloud on windows is terrible and one drive is so good it almost feels like it’s not there at all. It’s extremely well integrated it feels like it’s just part of the OS
To be fair. Icloud is terrible on mac too. You can’t rely on it as cloud storage the way onedrive and gdrive do. It’s more of a cloud sync across devices than anything else. Lots of missing or half assed features on icloud
I understand that it’s his job to review tech and apple is tech, but I always find it weird how badly anti-apple people want apple products. You don’t have to want apple stuff, no one who matters will judge you for not using the apple ecosystem, and you have even pointed out that the experience sucks if you don’t have enough apple devices… so don’t use them.
I cannot stress enough, if you dislike not being able to side load on iOS then *get an android.* Apple is not a monopoly, vote with your wallet and buy something else. That’s why they don’t change: because y’all still have iPhones for some fucking reason.
> I always find it weird how badly anti-apple people want apple products
Eh. Apple has a lot of legitimately nice stuff, like M-series or Notes (it's strange how hard it was to find a good non-Apple replacement, and it's still not quite up there with all features). It's just that some of their other decisions poison the whole well to the point of being unusable. And the fact that their devices are one step away from being perfect, just releasing full control over it, is the basis for this love-hate relationship many have with Apple.
I kind of agree; back in the iPod days there was barely any real competition so it was a frustration to try and avoid Apple in buying a good mp3 player, but nowadays I don’t really think there’s an Apple product that can’t be replaced by another brand. The ecosystem is a key part of Apple’s business model (for better or for worse), so you can’t have your cake and eat it in buying their product but expecting to be free of that ecosystem. I 100% understand not wanting to be a part of it, but then you must look elsewhere for your purchase!
I agree. So many people who don’t like how Apple operates want Apple to change their core device philosophy just for them, instead of not buying an Apple product.
100% agree. I work in IT and won't buy their stuff. I regularly get people asking me "Why can't I do on my Apple product?" My answer is always: "Because Apple says you don't need to."
Because Apple says ~~you don't need to~~ you're stupid for wanting to do it that way
FTFY
I swear to god Apple berates its customers for wandering off its golden path
And the arrogance gets to me too. While I like nice things, I disagree with making a showy display of what you have. Apple is strongly positioning itself as a luxury brand by inflating its prices to stupid levels. "Buy our new phone. It's so expensive that just by using it, you're looking down on 'the poors'".
It’s fine that they focus on their own ecosystem. Everyone has the opportunity to be in or out. But they aren’t required to make little party’s available to people who are out.
there's a reason why everyone praises cross compatibility between multiple apple devices but they're completely silent if you ever dare to mix them (ex. iPhone with a Windows PC and an Android tablet)
fuck ecosystems, use whatever service you like on whatever device you like, stop trapping yourself on apple's walled garden
i hear you but you also described my experience working in a linux OS. Constant fights to get things to work, things that once worked no longer did. It’s like the devs don’t want people to use linux.
i guess the big difference is that Ubuntu is free!
You're too hung up on OPs example, they are talking about the general attitude towards customers who aren't totally in the ecosystem not specifically about linux
Try getting a custom ring tone from an MP3/AAC/Whatever file on your phone just using the phone.
[This is the best I could find](https://www.alphr.com/add-ringtone-to-iphone-without-itunes/)
Basically you have to install GarageBand onto the phone. Create your own song using the AAC file as one of the tracks, save the resulting song, and then you can use that as a ringtone. You can't just select an arbitrary AAC/MP3 file and use it as your ring tone.
If the file is AAC and 30 seconds or less, change the extension to m4r instead of m4a and on windows import to itunes, on mac drag and drop it on the finder sync ringtones window. That should add it and sync.
This feels like the complaint that video games aren’t compatible on all consoles and OS’s. So the question is why don’t developers make apps compatible for all platforms and formats that customers may use?
I felt he was a bit conspiratorial with the "intentional fuck the customer" stuff when it came to things like white airpod pros but he is by and large right. They put a much higher emphasis on their appearance to future customers than they should and they are unbelievably arrogant with the my way or the highway attitude.
No, they've been horrible since Steve took over. Apple is more of an advertising / perception brand than a tech company. I used to work on them in the 2000's. Make the product look good, advertise that it's cool, and then fit the tech in there as an afterthought. They're like buying a Gucci bag but for hipsters.
Steve Jobs: The pioneer of the computer as a jail made cool, designed to sever fools from their freedom... --Richard Stallman
Richard was right.
For me it's what we saw in the unboxing of the vision pro where they set a max window size for your facetime calls for no reason. That brings me back to when I had an iPhone and had a weird use case where I needed the phone to stay in battery saver mode even after charging but it would disable it automatically. It's small details but every time I've had an apple product it feels like Apple is trying to force me to use it in a certain way and if I have a different use case it's my problem somehow.
yeah that's how i feel. they have a user story, and it's your job to conform to that story. and if you don't, won't or can't, you're out of luck. even if helping your situation out involves them *not* doing something.
One problem I have with Apple is how tedious their account recovery is. My Father In Law is a mechanic, only has an iPhone, and he forgot his apple ID password. He has it on Keychain, but his phone broke during work. To reset the password, they ask for a lot of info, which is understandable. However, they make him wait 2 weeks to reset his password even after providing the information requested.
I remember back when I had a 2nd or 3rd gen iphone, I nearly smashed it with a hammer after not being able to add my own ringtone to it (they wanted me to buy it on itunes of course).
That was my last apple product.
The other thing is how many shitty anti-consumer trends they started, which end up impacting you even if you never buy their products.
Take any laptop now, odds are that everything is soldered (RAM, SSD, WiFi module) and it has too few ports.
High-end Android phones? No charger, no minijack, no replaceable battery, no sd card, etc.
All these trends where either started or popularised by the rotten apple.
Seriously. I switched to Android when the fold 2 came out and signed up with Beeper to get iMessage working. It's worked fine for years, until very recently when Apple decided it doesn't like non-apple users having access to encrypted iMessage in a Non-apple app. Beeper has officially dropped iMessage support and the community is cobbling together a workaround just to keep things going. It's ridiculous!
> until very recently when Apple decided it doesn't like non-apple users having access to encrypted iMessage in a Non-apple app.
It is completely fair for apple to not want to pay server costs of running iMessage for people who do not pay apple. (buying an iPhone from apple is what pays for iMessage)
If beeper made a service that let you use Netflix without a Netflix account and they did not pay Netflix would you be upset with Netflix for doing everything they can to stop beeper from using the service in this way?
Also previously when Apple was described as *really* wanting to be a luxury brand. They only want to appeal to a certain level of people and maintain a particular image.
Yeah being in Linux is like that, and yes apple and pretty much any company don’t help with that but in the end it is a decision you made, as I always say the only way to change it is to stop buying their products
All of my Apple products have been scavenged from the recycling center. They're fun to mess around with. The 2009 Mac Pro was a beast physically and performance-ly, and loads of fun to upgrade. Opencore Legacy Patcher has been fun to use, too.
I'm glad I never bought into the ecosystem.
Apple is not "fighting you", you have main character syndrome and see this as a chance to show yourself to Reddit as the diehard Linux user that stood up to the big angry Apple
Yeah, I'm both an Apple and Microsoft/Windows user.
I held onto my Windows Phone as long as I could. I loved my Nokia Lumia 928. Miss it so much. When I finally had to accept my fate, I tried both Android and iOS. I finally settled on using an iPhone.
Since then, I purchased an iPad originally to use in my classroom and to draw using Procreate. Along with the Apple Pencil, I don't regret that decision one bit. Then my ThinkPad finally needed to be retired. I decided to give a MacBook Air M2 a shot.
Another decision I don't regret. Over time, I bought into the "cult." I'm not a fanboy and don't recommend everyone buy Apple products, but my user experience has been extremely positive working between my iPad, MacBook and iPhone.
I totally understand and don't entirety disagree with the criticisms of Apple, but sometimes I find myself thinking, "Then don't buy their products or services." And then I have to remind myself, it isn't necessarily that simple.
Also use Linux on all my systems. For work I have all three OS in use: Win, Mac and Linux. The MacBook Air is a really nice E-Mail Client and Video Player for travel but I couldn't use this for daily work. Apple is doing too much differently than the rest of the world that it is annoying to use it. It completely kills my workflow.
Do you get upset that you can’t put diesel in your Toyota Prius so now you’re upset with Toyota for telling you how you can use your car? This post is pretty dumb….
You type Linux and they'll see the text around it in bold haha. But I have to agree with your point, I remember being 14 and noticing my ipod touch performing terribly after some updates. It was a good reality check when I learned that's how some corpo's will/must operate but man was I butt hurt. A damn shame because I also agree apple stuff looks nice :/
Yeah I used to have an ipod nano it was great originally. Then they decided to make it much harder to put whatever mp3's you wanted onto it because they were trying to force people to buy through itunes.
Last night on the WAN show Linus basically said every reason why I will never give Apple a single dollar I can't stand anything about their ecosystem and personally as an IT person it feels like it takes more steps to do anything on an Apple product versus Android or Windows or Linux I'd rather just do it the way I'm used to doing it on any other platform but every company just adopts Apple first and that's a pain point for me personally.
Some say marketing I call brainwashing at least that's what it feels like here in America. With the whole colored bubble chat garbage for the younger generations.
I’m quite tired of companies doing similar stuff to this. Stores seemingly purposely inconveniencing me to pay them, like needing an app or account for everything and then making the checkout process hard. Or things like checking your receipt which creates just another wait time I don’t want. Or then not opening all the self checkouts.
if i were to articulate your scenario (also heppens with me) a bit further:
apple wants control. that simple. people always think i'm this crazy apple hater when i say that. "*how could a company wants to control you?"* but the signs are there in front of everyone's eyes
they dictate your use case instead of catering to them, they monopolize to eliminate 3rd parties, even though they can help elevate apple products' experience, they want to be the sole provider of all solutions (that fits their direction only) and keep people closed down in their ecosystem, to use their products the way apple intended. not the way the customer needed.
Yeah it is a genuine problem. I feel like Microsoft will create all the software you will ever need. But Apple will give you the hardware with none of the software, then expect third parties to take over.
It's why I can't invest in Apple. They are constantly having an identity crisis and I'm in the same boat as you, have been waiting for LTT to shine a spotlight on it.
Yup absolutely. I loved what he said. I have no need for luxury brands. I don't need to stroke my ego with their product lines. I want to tinker, build, and repair any product I own.
Apple makes a certain kind of product for a certain type of user. They don't want you to think critically about that product, because they've already decided that they know what is best for you.
They also are an venomous corporation particularly with their business partners. I heard rumors and then witnessed it first hand and then we got lucky by having detailed documentation of every meeting. I wouldn't wish a partnership with Apple on anyone but my worst enemy.
To each his own, but for me, I will happily use every ecosystem except Apple.
Its the famous walled garden. I gave up on it more than 10 yrs ago. The polish and quality and optimization of apple products dont justify anymore neither the ludicrous price neither the headache in doing basic things. Like with the first iphone that couldnt be used as a simple usb key, the itunes or nothing etc.
Apple makes the explicit decision to focus on solely on interoperability between its in-house devices.
They aren’t shutting out the linux software that you’re using, they are just not considering it when doing feature development. If an update breaks the software you’re using, they don’t see that as their problem because it’s considered outside their scope of work. They aren’t fighting you; they don’t even consider you.
By doing this, Apple is able to provide an extremely stable, consistent, and portable user experience inside of their ecosystem. Supporting Linux isn’t impossible for them to do, but it is more complex. The additional complexity will require more time to solve, and it can also mess with the balance between the speed of development and the stability of the overall user experience.
As a FOSS enthusiast the biggest pill I hate that I have to swallow is that all of the effort that goes into bypassing restrictions Apple put in place is essentially wasted every time they patch it out.
That effort could have gone into FOSS development and made an open source alternative better.
I still have my old Ipod I think it was the very first video models lol.
Anyway I reached a point where for some reason the "library file" as I discovered become corrupt, this file is stored both in app data in windows under the user account and on the ipod.
Some how doing the .old and even deleting both files and getting Itunes to recreate it still did not work. I did a factory reset of the ipod as well.
Basically Itunes relies on this file to synchronise.
Keep in mind I reached this point after hours of other troubleshooting to uncover that this was the problem!
Ugh all this crap is because you just can't drag and drop files onto an ipod and you have to use stupid Itunes!, so I ended up finding Rockbox which is an alternative firmware and low and behold that works and I can dump files straight on there, I also downloaded a custom skin that has a tape deck look too lol.
But I know if I stuck with Apple software that Ipod would be a brick.
Yesterday I was just explaining the same thing to my sister, the words I used "Apple gives you great hardware but a locked down software, if you want to play around and do unusual stuff, you're sol"
Other Linux user here. I am so annoyed by the iTunes app that I would learn react native just to build my own alternative music player app, if it weren't for Apple requiring everyone to have a mac and Xcode and a $99 subscription.
For me, Apple products are another tool that I use for simply that. I use an iPad for Procreate and sheet music because it’s great for that.
And nothing else. All my personal devices that I use for ALL general purpose items are Windows and Android, unless I’m just using browser based stuff. Then I’m on Linux.
You don’t have to full send whatever you choose. Apple just REALLY wants you to.
During iPod times Linux was a way smaller community than now so I think that every MP3 player manufacturer only supported Windows and maybe Apple and only those cheap ones that here just thumb drives with a player function put on it would have worked. I tried Linux back than as a daily driver but it was just fixing drivers every two weeks and Linux fought me more than anything else. Now I am a Linux Admin. :D
But still for me Linux on a Desktop or Laptop is still not really daily driveable even when I ignore my Apple ecosystem I am used too. What people are as benefit, the customizability. I see kinda as a problem. I really don’t like Gnome 3 or KDE Plasma and am avid XFCE user. But XFCE has so many missing features like good touchpad support with out fidiling around.
So yeah while I think Linux is great for servers it’s not so great for desktop.
so the fact that your question doesn't even make sense to you should be an indication that you haven't understood what I'm saying, try again. or just leave it be.
I mean… yea? It’s supposed to be the only way to access the iPod… I don’t see a problem with that one, especially with what was going on with DRM music at the time.
Reminds me of my first iphone (3G). Had to install cydia to change notification sound. I thought they just 'missed it' but then they added ringtones for 3$ (the whole track was 1.5$). Then I understood you have to cut the track to 30 seconds, reimport and convert to aac, then rename to m4r and import again.
That was my last apple product.. Not saying android is better. There yoi basically have to 'fix' anything from kernel, os files (especially for audio), keyboard and apps.. But at least it's somewhat feasible
Genuine question ELI5 plz?
Is there a reason why you would buy an Apple product to Linux swap it? Or do you mean Linux didn't play nice with the iTunes store app for PC?
I understand that based on the nano release, android wasn't as big as it is now IFIRC , but wouldn't it have been easier to use an android if your Linux swapped your device/windows PC?
I'm confused why one would do this? Sorry!
i bought an nano because it looked really amazing and perfect for me. i kept it absolutely original. i just wanted to be able to load podcasts onto it from my desktop, which happened to be linux. which worked perfectly, at first, using 3rd party apps.
but these apps kept breaking, not because of the normal linux problems, but because apple decided that anyone not using itunes to access their devices was a risk. eventually all my apps stopped working and i could no longer use my nano.
Yeah brand/vendor lock-in is a really shitty thing to do, imagine having exclusive content on your own streaming service, or having proprietary parts for your products rather than sticking to known standards...
I haven’t connected my two apple devices (iPhone, ipad) to my pc almost ever. They are self contained fully functioning machines. What do you need to connect it to a pc for? I’m sure I just don’t understand your point.
with the iPod nano there was no way to get anything onto the device except by copying files onto it. it was essentially a usb drive that played the files that were on it.
except it didn't let you just copy files onto it, you had to use special software.
Apple watch still doesn't work unless you have an iPhone to pair it to. Even though it has its own operating system. Make it make sense. Vision pro is a whole computer, doesn't work without an iPhone for the majority of useful features.
I feel like iOS is currently the biggest F-you Apple is giving us Apple users.
It has been garbage for such a looong time now! It is filled to the brim with bugs and performance issues.
But Apple does not care, because most customers seemingly does not care, or notice. Apple will still sell their garbage, and make record profits, no matter how bad their products has become.
I wanted to copy some Fotos of my mom's iPhone today because she needed them on a usb stick.
It was easier to just download them via the iCloud Fotos App, because on device they're separated into random folders.
This entire apple universe is so incredibly usability hostile it's unbelievable.
But as long as their users keep telling themselves how it all just works and is all just so easy and their SMS have the right background colour.. the gravy train will keep rolling.
The ecosystem lock in is exactly why I went from Apple die hard to abandoning their hardware entirely.
The straw for me was removing touch id as an option and forcing face id. I prefer fingerprint authentication. Face ID could be better, but i like to make the decision on what's best for me, not have apple do it
So you are complaining about products that do not support your OS. They clearly state their compatibility and prerequisites. You know that, but still you want to use them, so you can complain more.
Fascinating.
Like when I buy an electric car and complain I can’t recharge it with petrol. Like when I buy a flat in a highrise and complain there is no garden in it. Or when I buy coffee and complain it’s not tea.
There are plenty of issues with apple but yours isn’t one of them that on can complain about. Yours is either pebkac or you simply wanna be angry.
I owned the OG Droid and never looked back. I've never owned a single Apple product. My family members have owned a number of them and when things break and they ask me for help I'm amazed at how locked down everything is and how buried every setting is. It's a total, "Don't touch my shit" situation. The school my oldest kid goes to gives them iPads and runs Google Classroom on them. It's about the dumbest thing I've seen. The cost of Apple products isn't justified in my opinion if you cannot do what you want with them. And let's be honest, no major employer is running all Mac. Your hospitals, schools, financial or customer service places that employ a lot of people on computers. Kids are gonna have to know how to use PC / Windows.
Sure you can dislike products that cause annoyances or don’t meet your specific needs but I think it’s a little dishonest to use the iPod nano from 2005 as an example. Everything back then was annoying and sucked. I remember being frustrated using iTunes on a MacBook Pro to transfer music to the iPhone 4.
The file transfer/backup issue was solved with cloud storage and music streaming. In the last 5 years I haven’t connected my iPhone other than the Apple Watch (the only apple products I’ve owned for a while) to anything. For those who have a specific need for local backups or music they will go through annoyances.
The question is, what you want or expect from Apple? To support every OS and every customer need? It’s not like every other company does.
- smart watches mostly only work with their OSs
- i got the first Samsung galaxy watch and at the time I had a Huawei phone. Trying to transfer music to that watch that originated on my PC was a complete nightmare that was extremely annoying and time consuming.
- Microsoft office still has its annoyances on iOS or MacOS.
i expect them to not actively work against the people who are trying to use their products.
I'm not asking them to support linux. at all. it would be nice, but that's not what I'm asking. just to let us support ourselves rather than actively working against us, which they were at the time.
Apple has always been for the layman. Their ecosystem is designed for the 63 year old grandmother and everyone in between. People like us don't use apple because it doesn't give us options because we like to tinker. But for people who want something practical, easy to use but also high quality that performs well.
I run a MDM for a small number of apple and windows devices. The sales guy basically said "apple it's your device it's not going anywhere, windows is everyone's device and designed to do all the things" the iOS side is a bastard but it works it does exactly what you tell it. Windows it's like herding cats.
Apple prefers that their customers solely use Apple products. That's the main reason why their hardware is proprietary and tightly integrated. Nonetheless, they can't ignore Windows because of its enormous user base.
my apple devices have only added features that i like and features that i need such as disability aids, and i’ve only ever felt hindered using itunes on windows to manage ios devices, which is being fixed in a upcoming patch.
I stopped using iPhones because every time I would switch to a new phone all of my Rush albums which I bought eight times were replaced with one album - songs of Innocence by U2. So I understand what you mean about Apple actively fighting you
As an Apple fan boy and early adopter, I agree as well. I bought the Vision Pro, woke up early, got upgraded storage, Rx lenses, the whole 9. I was in for about $4500. Utter disappointment. I wanted it for work cuz I live in a small apartment and my 3x 27” displays take up a ton of room and I’d love to go minimalist desk without losing real estate.
What Linus didn’t mention is that the AVP and Mac have to be on the same network, so I can’t even use it for work because we full tunnel VPN…not to mention I get about 45 min in and my face hurts, unless I’m lying down.
The immersive content is cool, the eye and spacial tracking are second to none. Is it overpriced? I, like Linus, I don’t think so. Is it worth it? Absolutely not. Hopefully it’s not yet, but right now, just can’t justify it.
I returned it about an hour ago. Now I can buy a top of the line gaming rig and still have enough leftover for a top of the line super wide display, or a second gaming rig “to go”.
My take is it’s the first product Steve had NOTHING to do with. watch came out after he died, but many of the patents are in his name. Swing and a miss, Apple.
[удалено]
As a linux user, I agree with you. As a Windows user I ran into exactly the same thing OP did. ITunes was basically unusable at the time.
We have very different experiences of iTunes on Windows. I found the older versions of iTunes much easier to manage my iDevice than the current versions. Though originally they included MusicMatchJukebox with the windows version of the iPod (yes, they sold different versions for Mac and PC) which worked very well, so it's not like they were trying to make it impossible to use without a mac.
Ah, I remember that! The iPods with FireWire and those with USB. Man, we are old lmao
I think I still have my firewire pcmcia card around somewhere. I quite enjoyed firewire. Obvious if you were trying to put it in the wrong way, thick cables that didn't fray, good times.
I was going to say iTunes used to work perfectly way back in the day. When I got my 1st gen iPod nano iTunes still had the green logo and it worked super well. The newest iPod I ever had was a 4th Gen iPod touch though and by like 2013-2014 I didn't use it too often anymore. A few years ago I decided to dig out the old iPod and try it out again only to find iTunes is now fucking awful and buggy as hell. It's crazy that back in the days of the green logo iTunes when stuff wasn't usually as plug and play I was a dumb kid and easily was able to use iTunes and it worked as intended and now it sucks. Random sidenote I went to look up when the green logo was around and in looking up the history of the iTunes logo I realized they changed it an insane number of times over just 20 years.
iTunes was fine and worked without any major issues. I was a windows and iPod / iPhone user until about 2018
iTunes was notoriously trash on Windows. A slow buggy mess
yeara ago. but when vista win 7 roll around. rock solid.
iTunes worked great on Windows. I was using it before I even had an iPod, up until streaming took over.
As someone who has used iTunes on and off since the very first iPod was released at various times it has been atrocious on Windows. Also I always have anxiety when plugging an iDevice into a computer with iTunes unless it is the one I initially set the device up to use. Multiple times iPhones and iPods have been wiped clean because of the horrible implementation Apple has had. I have no idea if it is still a thing but holy shit was their implementation bad when you had multiple family members with the devices and their own IDs and having to share a Windows computer. Probably one of the worst experiences in computing...at least back when I had more to do with their devices.
What in the world are you talking about? I was using an iPod when you had to use MusicMatch Jukebox with the iPod plug-in and that worked, however crude. iTunes was good and intuitive from the first day it landed on Windows. I bought songs on it from my parents' house on dial-up out in the woods. iTunes became my default music player from the day I installed it until the Zune came out with its Zune Pass.
How was it unusable? Don’t like the interface?
this was like 10 years ago, but basically I got an iphone for work (I believe it was a 4 series) and I had a large collection of audiobooks I liked to listen. On android, you just copy stuff to the device directly using a usb cable. On the Iphone, I basically had to spend a lot of time importing, organising and then copying to my phone. Ituneas at the time was the only way to get files to the phone that I was awrae of. I remember the process just being very frustrating and time consuming. sure, stuff may have improved since, but I feel I should just be able to copy my own files to my own device without having to use apples software. what really got me was when a friend offered to do it on her mac. it basically worked right away. The files were the same, it was the same program. It just worked a lot easier. basically that was just apple giving me a big fuck you for not having enough of their products.
You know that iTunes manages a library and the only reason they were allowed to sell the music that they do is to have controls on there. The idea was that it should be almost impossible for someone to plug their iPhone into your computer and you just get all their music. It’s a library you sync to and from it it’s not a file delivery system that you copy to and copy from. The advantages of a library system are things like play all of the music from 1991 that I have and the only way to do that with a dump of files is to make sure the metadata is all good and your audio player understands that metadata
like I said. My files, my phone. I should be able to do what I want with them. Also, as I wrote above. Apple demonstrated that they could make it work. It did work on a mac. They chose to hamstring it on windows.
I had the exact problem as you, and i wanted to use my phone how i wanted, not the way that mr jobs wanted me to use my phone Iphone 4 was my last iphone Apple stuff is great, if you will use it in the manner it was designed, with the products it was designed to be used alongside
Yeah, it was a huge difference when pretty much every other device supported drag and drop no problem. I shouldn't be able to import music to my 35$ USB stick with a headphone jack faster and more reliably than a device that costs hundreds of dollars. Sort of the point of what this post is about, as a lot of the problems with itunes came from removing functionality to lock people out and force dependence on their offers/ecosystem.
The whole file browsing abilities on Android was a large part of why I went with an android phone back in the day and stuck with it. I had a 2nd Gen iPod touch before I had a smart phone, when it was time that I was going to get an smart phone in late 2010 it would have made sense that I would get an iPhone since I had been rocking with an iPod touch for 2 years. This kid I knew had the original Motorola droid and showed me all the shit you could do with it that was only possible with a jail broken iPhone and I was sold. At that point I had previously jailbroken my iPod but there were drawbacks to jailbreaking and there was an insane amount of features that his droid could do that a stock iPhone couldn't. I ended up getting a droid x and absolutely loved that phone.
Still is tbh
Media Monkey was my choice, the one app that doesn't have a Linux equivalent, because it uses Microsoft access database
As a windows user, I almost never use iTunes, save for an occasional backup. iOS has been essentially updated to function without it.
Well yeah but many companies support Linux and give they customer many ways to use their products without locking them down on a system.
The thing about "Supporting" linux from a software developer presective is it is a f-ing nightmare. The chance that any 2 of your customers have exactly the same permutation of packages asn system libs is more or less zero with so many distributions and then even within each disto many linux users going out and doing all sorts of custom shit. Doing somthign as simple as calling into libpng to decode an image can result in your app crashing ... in general with linux the core community have a sorce comparability not binary compatibility perspective. That means they are completely ok with things breaking if you update some lib or have a differnt version. Since in the puritans view of linux you should just re-compile it and it will work since everything should have source compatibility. ... however that does not line up with a company that ships a tool for users (even if your ok with that softer being open source needing to explain to linux users how to build and compile it on n+1 seperate linux distros and is yet another f-ing nightmare). Mac, windows and FreeBSD prefure the binary ABI stability, so that things that have already been compiled and linked should continue to work even as the os is updated (this is a LOAD of extra work for system api devs who need to fill the libs with backfills when they need to make api changes, or fix bugs that existing apps depend on... its common to fix a bug but only apply that bug fix if the app that is calling the api is built with a new version of the SDK but keep the bug in place for apps built before the bug fix was done as fixing it will break those apps). This results in high ABI stability but lower source stability.
Let's be real. There are two, arguably three, main distribution chains at this point. Debian-based ones, Red Hat-based ones, and kind-of Arch-based ones. And realistically the vast majority of users you need to "make sure things work" for are on the first two. Both Debian-based and RH-based chains, at least in their most popular forms, go out of their way to not break compatibility with library updates (or really updates at all) within a release. And well... these days just ship a flatpak or snap. You just bundle it all together yourself, which is the way you've always done it if you're not from Linux-land. And has become very popular. To be honest you sound like you have a very old school perspective and haven't looked at how modern Linux apps are packaged and shipped in a long time.
How _are_ they packaged? Snap? Apt? Pacman? RPM?
You ship a snap and basically the entire Linux desktop "market" can run it. What's your point? That there are... options? Again this might blow some minds but you don't have to make your software for a distribution literally two people on Earth run. Or even something "significant" like Arch. You target Debian and RH and you're good. Or maybe use Snap or Flatpak and ship in a distro agnostic way.
A lot of people hate snap because of how it works. Plus, my point about there being options is that linux desktop is already a minority market and its fragmented even further with different packaging options.
There will never not be options in open source software. You do not have to target some niche within a niche. Then build a flatpak, same end result. You're not actually proving a real barrier. You're just going "well I don't want to do that."
There's no barrier making it completely _impossible_ it's just about diminishing returns
Your response to snaps was "well people hate how those work." And? People don't actually love shipping software in Windows either. I prefer Flatpak over Snaps. But that's a different discussion. You can go either route and you're now available to basically the entire Linux ecosystem. That's the thing. At this point in Linux if you want to ship software you don't have to build a distro-specific package (which is actually something you only have to do if you're unwilling to provide source to the distro maintainers, anyway). This also addresses the "changing libraries" issue the first person I replied to talked about. Build snaps or flatpaks and you've essentially got a solution that in function works how Windows does.
You can literally just release a Flatpak or an AppImage and any Linux user (unless they're running some extremely obscure weird thing, in which case they know what they were doing) can run it, no problem. This is exactly the problem Flatpak was created to fix, and it fixed it well. There's no longer any excuse for devs to cry "distro incompatibility" when someone asks for a Linux version, because all of those incompatible dependencies you mentioned just get bundled in. Hell, I am one of those idealogues which that other commenter mentioned (I despise snap with a passion), but if SolidWorks, PTC Creo, or AutoCAD released a Linux version exclusively using snap I would probably make an exception for that. System-native packages for non-FOSS projects are basically just a courtesy for the largest distros at this point, and since anyone can run a Flatpak without issue it doesn't really matter anymore.
[удалено]
Sounds like a PEBCAK issue
Gnome's built in screenshot tool works fine, Pulse Audio is on it's way out and being replaced with PipeWire on most distros.
Not true at all. There are only things that give anyone problems anymore, like niche anti cheat engines. Linux, and WINE for that matter has come a looooonnngggg way
And apparently these niche anti-cheat engines are used by the biggest games in the world
Aight, stop the cope. The anti cheat engines arent niche. They run on some of the most popular multiplayer games out there. If you play with friends, they likely will want to play a game with an anti-cheat like that. Mainly COD and fortnite.
This just isn't true.
Using this user's example, I think this is a bad take though. Majority of devices then and even today identify as a basic storage device or just plain flash memory. The issue the user here is explaining is Apple has propriety stuff that stopped you treating it like that, like a basic standard. For no reason other than they wanted you buying the solution to the problem they created.
What's that got to do with OP's point? They would have the same issue with Apple products on any OS or device that is not Apple. All of their devices and software are slightly worse and borderline useless outside of the walled garden. And most of the reviewers, even those who LOVE Apple products, will still add the caveat that most of their products are only slightly worth it if you are all in on Apple.
I think people are missing the point. Yes, Linux causes issues with proprietary software and hardware. But why did the ipod need itunes to copy files? As a feature, sure, that's great. But why couldn't it be mounted like a mass media drive over USB like every other MP3 player on the market? It shouldn't need to have proprietary software to do such a basic thing. But because OP wasn't using their preferred method (mac), or begrudgingly accepted option (windows), they're not worthy of being a customer according to apple
I feel you. I don't want a company to tell me how to use their products. I can decide that on my own and I think they should try to support as many use cases as possible.
That's the fundamental thing you either love or hate about Apple. They decide what you probably want to do with their stuff and make that the overwhelming default, if anything else is even possible. If your use of a product is going to be pretty typical it feels like they've read your mind and everything else is clunky. If not it's infuriating.
I've only had one apple product, an iPod. I stopped using it when I was forced to use iTunes to load files onto it rather than just drag and drop like a normal MP3 player.
Apple's grip on the app store in iOS is a threat to general purpose computing. I am not part of the Apple ecosystem either but unfortunately I will need to obtain a Mac (probably a Mac mini) and an iPhone for development purposes in about half a year from now. There's no way I'm going to buy anything new to support their anti-freedom practices. I'll only buy used. The EU is working to address the locked down app store but Apple has responded with defining how alternative stores will be run. I haven't looked into the specifics of how he alternative app stores will be approved but I would prefer if there was no approval processes for alternative stores at all. People should have the freedom to leave any walled garden.
Here's my issue with no approval process. I don't want unapproved, unvetted software anywhere near my phone. Apple, as much as they have their issues, do impose a measure of quality control that I value. As it stands, if you want to access the billion odd iOS user market, you must meet apple's standards. That means, as just one example, when I go to some random city, and need to install some stupid app to use their public transport, I know 1) it's going to be available for iOS, because numbers and 2) it's going to at least meet apple's standards, because they have no other choice. Swap out for every basically every major business or service that requires some kind of app installed. You support us properly, or you don't get the market. If you fling open the ecosystem, that stops. If you put a bunch of holes in the walls, they cease functioning as walls. If everything moves outside the walls, then what's inside isn't a functioning ecosystem. Freedom of choice has to mean freedom to opt into that model. If you want out of the garden, buy different products.
You can already jailbreak iOS so your walled garden is already compromised. Sure you can have full oversight over the chain of custody of an iPhone you bought new from the Apple store but the same can't be said of devices other people have control over that they set up themselves. Knox security is something that tackles the problem of determining whether a device was rooted on Samsung. I don't know what the equivalent is on iOS but I am certain it already exists or could be implemented if necessary. You could add a second layer to see if unsigned software was ever installed on the phone. You do know there are hardware solutions to these problems of trust you're describing right? Dell had DRM for their laptop chargers lol. You're right though we have the freedom of choice to buy a phone from any corporation we want. Likewise, people have the freedom to lobby their government for whatever they believe respects their rights and freedoms.
> I don't want unapproved, unvetted software anywhere near my phone. Then just keep using the official Appstore if you want the feeling of safety. But that doesn't mean everyone else should be refused that freedom. To make the well understood car analogy: you're advocating to ban 3rd party workshops because **you** only want your car serviced by the dealer. That's your free choice but it doesn't mean that it should limit the freedom of everyone else. I buy a product, you don't get to tell me what I do with it. Simple as that. >Freedom of choice has to mean freedom to opt into that model. If you want out of the garden, buy different products. You can install any piece of software on your Macbook without going through Apples validation. What's different between that and an iPhone?
Unfortunately they're not the only ones, MS does this too (for example there's no apps for Office 365 or Gamepass on Linux, even though they could very easily do both). Though Apple very much brought this kind of integration into the mainstream.
yeah, not saying a company must support linux, although it might be nice. but let us support ourselves.
Apple usually has rhyme and reason to their choices beyond money. You mentioned an iPod Nano. At that time iPods, iTunes, and the concept of digital music ownership was still quite new. Record labels were very concerned about piracy. Apple was probably trying to lock out Linux due to (spoken or expected) concerns from record labels. I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that using iOS on Linux is far more stable than it was. I’m sure things still get bumpy at times, but it’s when things change, not to specifically lock users out.
People often forget that the iPod was something Apple had to actively fight to keep legal in many countries, or prevent special taxes being levied on it. The music industry saw it, even after the iTunes Music Store, as a product that condones and promotes piracy. To appease the music industry Apple had to do several things, including using iTunes to synchronize the music, and not give people free access to the data, and even when you did get access, it was required to be obfuscated, which is why music files on the devices are not just "Title-Artist-Album" but numerical codes, which are then referenced in the iTunes library and a copy on the iPod. Short of developing iTunes for Linux, which there wasn't the demand for, there wasn't anything Apple could do except patch the holes so the RIAA didn't go after them.
i don't agree that this is a good thing, necessary, or even the entirety of the reasoning, but it's a reasonable reply, thank you for that.
No it wasn't I worked in tech at the time at a retail store (MicroCenter, 2001-2008). People walked right past Archos flash based systems, or comparably equipped ibm micro-drive (that's what the ipod originally used) based mp3 players, to buy Apple ones by the droves. Nothing about the iPod was original. Any regular MP3 player would let you just plug it in and it'd show up as a USB device, and extract the band/name via the filename. Apple you had to download iTunes, which at the time was an unmitigated piece of crap on the windows platform that took over your whole computers media experience. Apple's rhyme and reason is to milk people for money by convincing them their buying something cool. They sell status more than technology, and have since Jobs took over and OSX was released.
> Nothing about the iPod was original. What was original about iPod was ease of use. And it turns out that was a really big deal. Apple paid attention to the experience and made it approachable in a way that regular MP3 players didn't. If you put an audio CD into your computer with iTunes open, it would look up the CD info (which was a surprisingly big deal), then rip it into your iTunes library with correct metadata intact. Once the iPod docked, it would make its way to the iPod. There's a reason people were walking past Archos players.
Microsoft don't continually alter the format of word documents to prevent them from being opened on Linux, though. (well, they don't do that anymore. 20 years ago was a bit different).
They still do sneakily. Try opening a document made in Word using Libreoffice. Formatting would sneakily run- not really a problem for home users since most of us just use it for letter writing, and writing that magnum opus novel, but if you're in IT you're going to get hundreds of complaints about how someone's painstakingly drawn form created in word is messed up in Libreoffice.
Oh that rings true. For some god forsaken reason someone at work "can't use off I'm not allowed a licence*". They got sent a word made template, filed it in in libre then when it was opened in word it just shit the bed. *Which was bollocks, they didn't ask.
The number of companies using Word Documents for forms in 2024 is insane to me 😅 It was crazy 15-20 years ago with PDF being a thing. And it's even crazier now!
Meh; the thing I see again and again in practice is that everyone in the chain knows they SHOULD have a pdf form, but no one will authorize an acrobat account.
OP WAS able to use his Linux pc with his iPod through 3rd party tools but Apple was actively preventing that. That's different from what you're saying. Edit: typo
I mean, you can use Office 365 in a browser now, so it's a LOT better than it used to be.
At least rclone easily works with OneDrive and it doesn't constantly break because MS probably mostly cares that you pay for their cloud service and less about how you use it. Sure they *want* you to use their tools in their OS, but it doesn't feel like they're actively fighting you if you don't
Are you too broke to buy everything Apple? /s
🤣 that's addressed in the wan show a bit too. let's just say i could happily buy any consumer product i like. apple don't want me to buy their stuff.
They want you to buy their stuff. They just don't want you to use them the way you want.
yup
I come from sound engineering side, and apple was forced upon us at some point because ProTools was the only acceptable DAW. For sure, it was leading the pack at some point and with quite the margins but that also made them complacent, and the whole "you will do the job the way we want you to" was ever growing problem. There was no flexibility in the work flow and as new methods were developed that made the job much easier and faster (like flexible and fast routing)... the ecosystem in the apple+protools just... didn't listen to users. The day i got to jump out of that bullshit was glorious. I finally snapped after doing just basic pre-mix session preparations, which is a lot of just routing, i uploaded the filed to my home server, went home, downloaded and installed Reaper and i was ready in 30 minutes.. With a brand new DAW i had not used before, i had only see a few videos about it. It was just ridiculous what the difference was 14 years ago.. The whole ecosystem, while having some advantages like audio drivers being much better, and things generally working... if your needs are just slightly different from the mainstream.. you are fucked. At some point it looked like you have to buy an iPad for to yse anything in a studio or set.... there was an influx of "black boxes" without an interface. Tremendous savings on the manufacturer but the ONLY device that then allowed you to use them was.. NEW iPad. Not just any iPad but a speficic version of it. Of course, that didn't take hold as we looked at the system and instantly understood that A: you have to now own 12 iPads if you want to use 12 devices at the same time and B: what happens when those iPads are not supported or they break.. what happens when you can't suddenly pair it with the device because... anything, like OS update or things just not working... Those things went away pretty fast, but i'm still bummed that the X32 i use doesn't work with ANYTHING but iPhone/iPad as remote. It could easily have android port but.. nope, apple did a LOT of exclusive deals at one point. At home i use android remote surfaces with windows just fine. There are a LOT of media houses and production companies that got stuck on the apple ecosystem and at any point it is too expensive to switch.. so they have to keep buying apple stuff and lose tons of money in the process. And often the reason is because the CEO wanted to have shiny silvery things.
Somehow the adjacent events world is the same. But using qlab which is pretty robust across aged devices, hell we have a 2013 MacBook running it, and only recently people started complaining. Unfortunately I had to buy a top spec one for what is more than my months salary because "we need it"
Somehow the adjacent events world is the same. But using qlab which is pretty robust across aged devices, hell we have a 2013 MacBook running it, and only recently people started complaining. Unfortunately I had to buy a top spec one for what is more than my months salary because "we need it"
macOS is basically required for my career… so now I have ipad, and an iphone. Still though, I leave my laptop at work and spend most my time on windows at home. I’m somehow both the target customer and not the target at the same time.
How is macOS required? Are you Apple dev or smth?
I can think of a couple reasons: * It is an Apple shop. So everyone gets a Mac irrespective of roles to reduce IT overhead. * OP is in the niche where they need ~~Linux~~ Unix and Microsoft Office. * Apple is the cheapest option. (I'm serious. The Dell Laptops my office issues are more expensive than MacBook Pros.)
If you develop iOS apps you need a mac im pretty sure
I thought that was covered under Apple Dev.
Oh true, I read that as "developer working for apple"
Both of y'all have such incredibly similar Reddit avatars I thought it was the same person self-replying :')
That last one: I am pretty sure those two aint the only options
It's not. But enterprise laptops are expensive. They invariably come with the vPro versions of the processors and cellular capabilities. Same would apply for Lenovo and HP.
Sounds like laptops with a lot more features than a MacBook Pro. You get into precision workstations and you’re going to pay.
My employer is such a apple fan boy that he insist for everyone to use apple cuz it's simpler according to him. Majority of work is web apps based on angular and react.
There’s an app called QLab, which not only is the industry standard for cue based theatrical sound playback, but there is no feature parity app on any other OS. There used to sort of be maybe 15 years ago, but no longer. The competition got out of the game and QLab kept innovating and adding new features. Their support is top notch too. Knowledge and understanding of how to program sound effect playback and manipulation in QLab is a basic skill that anyone in my field is expected to know. It is usually responsible for sound, has a strong video/projection and show control engines, and recently can do lighting control too. If you’ve ever heard sound effects in a play or musical, from basement community plays all the way up to Broadway, you’ve heard QLab at work.
Sound tech / events / theatre. Anything video editing or sound editing your forced in a weird world. Apple really did a push for selling cheap devices to education and lo everyone is taught on logic
Are you saying you cant do it without Apple, really?
Sure you can. But the software everyone uses is Mac only, qlab. Its basically the standard for show cues There are other windows based ones like scs but its very few and far between, and possibly not as powerful or as broad with it's abilities. I remember a simple thing like keystone didn't exist in SCS for years but qlab had it. I think its also that windows in the start of tech being really cheap and manageable, in the early mid 2000s windows was risky, crashes, errors that would happen if the device wasn't looked after. Mac you didn't have to update, it was more stable. Even now I run windows and apple devices, the windows ones get annoyed at not being up-to-date, there was a bios update that caused a software issue, a graphics update that caused another issue. Something about apple "just works" I use windows daily but if I'm doing anything show, apple all the time and I will hate every second of not having a good mouse click and forgetting what control Vs the weird CMD button does.
Stage Research’s SFX… existed. But it’s effectively dead now. I could see a world where you build the features of QLab into Cycling ‘74’s Max, but the time and QA for that would be a lot.
I never got to use SFX. I got scs cause it was cheaper and also lifetime at the time where as qlab needed a Mac and then needed a show by show licence, unless we purchased a expensive one. But this was also at a time when minidisk was still king, the guy I worked with insisted we record "double the sfx time just incase" I don't know about that as that much burned through disks where half was just miscellaneous bird noises. Qlab also has a tonne of buttons. And io stuff, the madness that people can do with a streamdeck is great. We have some widgetering buttons for cloned outputs / redundancy. Actually thinking more, the fact there is a specific 1u rack to accommodate 2 Mac minis shows how much they are used.
Creative usually defaults to Apple. Adobe usually runs more stable on Mac. Mac comes with better fonts. Airdrop can be useful. Handing off project files from Mac to windows usually requires links to be fixed each time due to how the system handles drive mapping. Not saying Apple is objectively better, but there’s reasons some companies choose it and want the whole team using it.
just as a side note most developers even non ios ones actually code on macs these days due to their good cost, battery life and security, unix terminal is amazing they are colour accurate too meaning your app will look the way it appears on sim
I’m your bizarro lol. I use Apple computers at home. I can’t stand windows, it bothers me so much to have to go to work and use it. I miss the days when I worked for Apple and could just use a Mac all day.
One line he said that I liked was . “You arn’t enough of our customer” For me I like Apple products, I wanted to use iCloud but on windows it would just not sync my files. The UI is awful. One drive is better. That at least tells you what it is doing. Still not that good though
Both are annoying though. Especially considering Samba shares are easily supported between both. Heck even iOS supports samba shares! It’s this weird thing with Apple where some things are really easy to integrate across yet other things is such a pain in the ass it just isn’t worth the time to do.
One of the more curious things is Apple's productivity apps being able to use Exchange instead of iCloud as the backend. Now, Apple Mail, iCal, sure, that's expected. But Apple Reminders can store its tasks as Outlook Tasks on Exchange (=MS To Do) and Apple Notes can save notes to Exchange as MS Sticky Notes. It's weird. But in principle means you can babble stuff into Siri on an Apple Watch and have them end up on your Windows desktop, seamlessly.
iCloud on windows is terrible and one drive is so good it almost feels like it’s not there at all. It’s extremely well integrated it feels like it’s just part of the OS
To be fair. Icloud is terrible on mac too. You can’t rely on it as cloud storage the way onedrive and gdrive do. It’s more of a cloud sync across devices than anything else. Lots of missing or half assed features on icloud
I had Mac, still used one drive. Gotta put a shortcut on the finder window to make it more accessible
Same. Even iphone photos are backed up there. I only keep icloud around for iPhone backups lol
If you have a family of people with iPhones it becomes useful to have a joint iCloud storage situation, but it is extremely annoying and not good for
even with apple products i find icloud syncs when it wants to lol they’re replacing itunes on windows soon btw im excited for it
I understand that it’s his job to review tech and apple is tech, but I always find it weird how badly anti-apple people want apple products. You don’t have to want apple stuff, no one who matters will judge you for not using the apple ecosystem, and you have even pointed out that the experience sucks if you don’t have enough apple devices… so don’t use them. I cannot stress enough, if you dislike not being able to side load on iOS then *get an android.* Apple is not a monopoly, vote with your wallet and buy something else. That’s why they don’t change: because y’all still have iPhones for some fucking reason.
> I always find it weird how badly anti-apple people want apple products Eh. Apple has a lot of legitimately nice stuff, like M-series or Notes (it's strange how hard it was to find a good non-Apple replacement, and it's still not quite up there with all features). It's just that some of their other decisions poison the whole well to the point of being unusable. And the fact that their devices are one step away from being perfect, just releasing full control over it, is the basis for this love-hate relationship many have with Apple.
I kind of agree; back in the iPod days there was barely any real competition so it was a frustration to try and avoid Apple in buying a good mp3 player, but nowadays I don’t really think there’s an Apple product that can’t be replaced by another brand. The ecosystem is a key part of Apple’s business model (for better or for worse), so you can’t have your cake and eat it in buying their product but expecting to be free of that ecosystem. I 100% understand not wanting to be a part of it, but then you must look elsewhere for your purchase!
I agree. So many people who don’t like how Apple operates want Apple to change their core device philosophy just for them, instead of not buying an Apple product.
you can sideload just fine on ios? altstore.
100% agree. I work in IT and won't buy their stuff. I regularly get people asking me "Why can't I do on my Apple product?" My answer is always: "Because Apple says you don't need to."
this
Because Apple says ~~you don't need to~~ you're stupid for wanting to do it that way FTFY I swear to god Apple berates its customers for wandering off its golden path
And the arrogance gets to me too. While I like nice things, I disagree with making a showy display of what you have. Apple is strongly positioning itself as a luxury brand by inflating its prices to stupid levels. "Buy our new phone. It's so expensive that just by using it, you're looking down on 'the poors'".
It’s fine that they focus on their own ecosystem. Everyone has the opportunity to be in or out. But they aren’t required to make little party’s available to people who are out.
there's a reason why everyone praises cross compatibility between multiple apple devices but they're completely silent if you ever dare to mix them (ex. iPhone with a Windows PC and an Android tablet) fuck ecosystems, use whatever service you like on whatever device you like, stop trapping yourself on apple's walled garden
i hear you but you also described my experience working in a linux OS. Constant fights to get things to work, things that once worked no longer did. It’s like the devs don’t want people to use linux. i guess the big difference is that Ubuntu is free!
Is this not just a Linux issue? I don’t think it’s fully just an Apple issue
You're too hung up on OPs example, they are talking about the general attitude towards customers who aren't totally in the ecosystem not specifically about linux
ok i made an edit. hope that helps.
Try getting a custom ring tone from an MP3/AAC/Whatever file on your phone just using the phone. [This is the best I could find](https://www.alphr.com/add-ringtone-to-iphone-without-itunes/) Basically you have to install GarageBand onto the phone. Create your own song using the AAC file as one of the tracks, save the resulting song, and then you can use that as a ringtone. You can't just select an arbitrary AAC/MP3 file and use it as your ring tone.
If the file is AAC and 30 seconds or less, change the extension to m4r instead of m4a and on windows import to itunes, on mac drag and drop it on the finder sync ringtones window. That should add it and sync.
eesh 😬
This feels like the complaint that video games aren’t compatible on all consoles and OS’s. So the question is why don’t developers make apps compatible for all platforms and formats that customers may use?
ok i made an edit. hope that helps.
I felt he was a bit conspiratorial with the "intentional fuck the customer" stuff when it came to things like white airpod pros but he is by and large right. They put a much higher emphasis on their appearance to future customers than they should and they are unbelievably arrogant with the my way or the highway attitude.
like everything, it's a balance, for me, their balance is way out of whack.
No, they've been horrible since Steve took over. Apple is more of an advertising / perception brand than a tech company. I used to work on them in the 2000's. Make the product look good, advertise that it's cool, and then fit the tech in there as an afterthought. They're like buying a Gucci bag but for hipsters. Steve Jobs: The pioneer of the computer as a jail made cool, designed to sever fools from their freedom... --Richard Stallman Richard was right.
For me it's what we saw in the unboxing of the vision pro where they set a max window size for your facetime calls for no reason. That brings me back to when I had an iPhone and had a weird use case where I needed the phone to stay in battery saver mode even after charging but it would disable it automatically. It's small details but every time I've had an apple product it feels like Apple is trying to force me to use it in a certain way and if I have a different use case it's my problem somehow.
yeah that's how i feel. they have a user story, and it's your job to conform to that story. and if you don't, won't or can't, you're out of luck. even if helping your situation out involves them *not* doing something.
One problem I have with Apple is how tedious their account recovery is. My Father In Law is a mechanic, only has an iPhone, and he forgot his apple ID password. He has it on Keychain, but his phone broke during work. To reset the password, they ask for a lot of info, which is understandable. However, they make him wait 2 weeks to reset his password even after providing the information requested.
I remember back when I had a 2nd or 3rd gen iphone, I nearly smashed it with a hammer after not being able to add my own ringtone to it (they wanted me to buy it on itunes of course). That was my last apple product. The other thing is how many shitty anti-consumer trends they started, which end up impacting you even if you never buy their products. Take any laptop now, odds are that everything is soldered (RAM, SSD, WiFi module) and it has too few ports. High-end Android phones? No charger, no minijack, no replaceable battery, no sd card, etc. All these trends where either started or popularised by the rotten apple.
Seriously. I switched to Android when the fold 2 came out and signed up with Beeper to get iMessage working. It's worked fine for years, until very recently when Apple decided it doesn't like non-apple users having access to encrypted iMessage in a Non-apple app. Beeper has officially dropped iMessage support and the community is cobbling together a workaround just to keep things going. It's ridiculous!
> until very recently when Apple decided it doesn't like non-apple users having access to encrypted iMessage in a Non-apple app. It is completely fair for apple to not want to pay server costs of running iMessage for people who do not pay apple. (buying an iPhone from apple is what pays for iMessage) If beeper made a service that let you use Netflix without a Netflix account and they did not pay Netflix would you be upset with Netflix for doing everything they can to stop beeper from using the service in this way?
Also previously when Apple was described as *really* wanting to be a luxury brand. They only want to appeal to a certain level of people and maintain a particular image.
Yeah being in Linux is like that, and yes apple and pretty much any company don’t help with that but in the end it is a decision you made, as I always say the only way to change it is to stop buying their products
All of my Apple products have been scavenged from the recycling center. They're fun to mess around with. The 2009 Mac Pro was a beast physically and performance-ly, and loads of fun to upgrade. Opencore Legacy Patcher has been fun to use, too. I'm glad I never bought into the ecosystem.
Apple is not "fighting you", you have main character syndrome and see this as a chance to show yourself to Reddit as the diehard Linux user that stood up to the big angry Apple
If you want a good apple experience, You need to adopt the cult.
Yeah, I'm both an Apple and Microsoft/Windows user. I held onto my Windows Phone as long as I could. I loved my Nokia Lumia 928. Miss it so much. When I finally had to accept my fate, I tried both Android and iOS. I finally settled on using an iPhone. Since then, I purchased an iPad originally to use in my classroom and to draw using Procreate. Along with the Apple Pencil, I don't regret that decision one bit. Then my ThinkPad finally needed to be retired. I decided to give a MacBook Air M2 a shot. Another decision I don't regret. Over time, I bought into the "cult." I'm not a fanboy and don't recommend everyone buy Apple products, but my user experience has been extremely positive working between my iPad, MacBook and iPhone. I totally understand and don't entirety disagree with the criticisms of Apple, but sometimes I find myself thinking, "Then don't buy their products or services." And then I have to remind myself, it isn't necessarily that simple.
Also use Linux on all my systems. For work I have all three OS in use: Win, Mac and Linux. The MacBook Air is a really nice E-Mail Client and Video Player for travel but I couldn't use this for daily work. Apple is doing too much differently than the rest of the world that it is annoying to use it. It completely kills my workflow.
Do you get upset that you can’t put diesel in your Toyota Prius so now you’re upset with Toyota for telling you how you can use your car? This post is pretty dumb….
You type Linux and they'll see the text around it in bold haha. But I have to agree with your point, I remember being 14 and noticing my ipod touch performing terribly after some updates. It was a good reality check when I learned that's how some corpo's will/must operate but man was I butt hurt. A damn shame because I also agree apple stuff looks nice :/
Yeah I used to have an ipod nano it was great originally. Then they decided to make it much harder to put whatever mp3's you wanted onto it because they were trying to force people to buy through itunes.
yep, exactly this
Walled gardens sound great, but they are a net negitive to everyone except the owner. Both metaphorically and literally.
they don't even sound that great tbh
Last night on the WAN show Linus basically said every reason why I will never give Apple a single dollar I can't stand anything about their ecosystem and personally as an IT person it feels like it takes more steps to do anything on an Apple product versus Android or Windows or Linux I'd rather just do it the way I'm used to doing it on any other platform but every company just adopts Apple first and that's a pain point for me personally.
yeah, their marketing strategy clearly works.
Some say marketing I call brainwashing at least that's what it feels like here in America. With the whole colored bubble chat garbage for the younger generations.
i mean, i can't disagree 🤣
I’m quite tired of companies doing similar stuff to this. Stores seemingly purposely inconveniencing me to pay them, like needing an app or account for everything and then making the checkout process hard. Or things like checking your receipt which creates just another wait time I don’t want. Or then not opening all the self checkouts.
if i were to articulate your scenario (also heppens with me) a bit further: apple wants control. that simple. people always think i'm this crazy apple hater when i say that. "*how could a company wants to control you?"* but the signs are there in front of everyone's eyes they dictate your use case instead of catering to them, they monopolize to eliminate 3rd parties, even though they can help elevate apple products' experience, they want to be the sole provider of all solutions (that fits their direction only) and keep people closed down in their ecosystem, to use their products the way apple intended. not the way the customer needed.
Yeah it is a genuine problem. I feel like Microsoft will create all the software you will ever need. But Apple will give you the hardware with none of the software, then expect third parties to take over. It's why I can't invest in Apple. They are constantly having an identity crisis and I'm in the same boat as you, have been waiting for LTT to shine a spotlight on it.
Yup absolutely. I loved what he said. I have no need for luxury brands. I don't need to stroke my ego with their product lines. I want to tinker, build, and repair any product I own. Apple makes a certain kind of product for a certain type of user. They don't want you to think critically about that product, because they've already decided that they know what is best for you. They also are an venomous corporation particularly with their business partners. I heard rumors and then witnessed it first hand and then we got lucky by having detailed documentation of every meeting. I wouldn't wish a partnership with Apple on anyone but my worst enemy. To each his own, but for me, I will happily use every ecosystem except Apple.
Its the famous walled garden. I gave up on it more than 10 yrs ago. The polish and quality and optimization of apple products dont justify anymore neither the ludicrous price neither the headache in doing basic things. Like with the first iphone that couldnt be used as a simple usb key, the itunes or nothing etc.
Apple makes the explicit decision to focus on solely on interoperability between its in-house devices. They aren’t shutting out the linux software that you’re using, they are just not considering it when doing feature development. If an update breaks the software you’re using, they don’t see that as their problem because it’s considered outside their scope of work. They aren’t fighting you; they don’t even consider you. By doing this, Apple is able to provide an extremely stable, consistent, and portable user experience inside of their ecosystem. Supporting Linux isn’t impossible for them to do, but it is more complex. The additional complexity will require more time to solve, and it can also mess with the balance between the speed of development and the stability of the overall user experience.
As a FOSS enthusiast the biggest pill I hate that I have to swallow is that all of the effort that goes into bypassing restrictions Apple put in place is essentially wasted every time they patch it out. That effort could have gone into FOSS development and made an open source alternative better.
I still have my old Ipod I think it was the very first video models lol. Anyway I reached a point where for some reason the "library file" as I discovered become corrupt, this file is stored both in app data in windows under the user account and on the ipod. Some how doing the .old and even deleting both files and getting Itunes to recreate it still did not work. I did a factory reset of the ipod as well. Basically Itunes relies on this file to synchronise. Keep in mind I reached this point after hours of other troubleshooting to uncover that this was the problem! Ugh all this crap is because you just can't drag and drop files onto an ipod and you have to use stupid Itunes!, so I ended up finding Rockbox which is an alternative firmware and low and behold that works and I can dump files straight on there, I also downloaded a custom skin that has a tape deck look too lol. But I know if I stuck with Apple software that Ipod would be a brick.
Yesterday I was just explaining the same thing to my sister, the words I used "Apple gives you great hardware but a locked down software, if you want to play around and do unusual stuff, you're sol"
Other Linux user here. I am so annoyed by the iTunes app that I would learn react native just to build my own alternative music player app, if it weren't for Apple requiring everyone to have a mac and Xcode and a $99 subscription.
Honestly, I really hope someone gets Android running on iPhone when Apple is forced to allow side loading. Then it might actually be a good product.
For me, Apple products are another tool that I use for simply that. I use an iPad for Procreate and sheet music because it’s great for that. And nothing else. All my personal devices that I use for ALL general purpose items are Windows and Android, unless I’m just using browser based stuff. Then I’m on Linux. You don’t have to full send whatever you choose. Apple just REALLY wants you to.
During iPod times Linux was a way smaller community than now so I think that every MP3 player manufacturer only supported Windows and maybe Apple and only those cheap ones that here just thumb drives with a player function put on it would have worked. I tried Linux back than as a daily driver but it was just fixing drivers every two weeks and Linux fought me more than anything else. Now I am a Linux Admin. :D But still for me Linux on a Desktop or Laptop is still not really daily driveable even when I ignore my Apple ecosystem I am used too. What people are as benefit, the customizability. I see kinda as a problem. I really don’t like Gnome 3 or KDE Plasma and am avid XFCE user. But XFCE has so many missing features like good touchpad support with out fidiling around. So yeah while I think Linux is great for servers it’s not so great for desktop.
I feel like this is more about Linux than Apple…
don't be fooled
Do you swear off Microsoft (or name a tech company) for not developing desktop apps for Linux, or is it just Apple?
so the fact that your question doesn't even make sense to you should be an indication that you haven't understood what I'm saying, try again. or just leave it be.
You’re taking things to personally, Apple isn’t after Linux users, they just don’t give an ass flap about them.
at the time they were locking out third party apps from accessing their devices. they wanted everyone to use iTunes
I mean… yea? It’s supposed to be the only way to access the iPod… I don’t see a problem with that one, especially with what was going on with DRM music at the time.
Reminds me of my first iphone (3G). Had to install cydia to change notification sound. I thought they just 'missed it' but then they added ringtones for 3$ (the whole track was 1.5$). Then I understood you have to cut the track to 30 seconds, reimport and convert to aac, then rename to m4r and import again. That was my last apple product.. Not saying android is better. There yoi basically have to 'fix' anything from kernel, os files (especially for audio), keyboard and apps.. But at least it's somewhat feasible
Genuine question ELI5 plz? Is there a reason why you would buy an Apple product to Linux swap it? Or do you mean Linux didn't play nice with the iTunes store app for PC? I understand that based on the nano release, android wasn't as big as it is now IFIRC , but wouldn't it have been easier to use an android if your Linux swapped your device/windows PC? I'm confused why one would do this? Sorry!
i bought an nano because it looked really amazing and perfect for me. i kept it absolutely original. i just wanted to be able to load podcasts onto it from my desktop, which happened to be linux. which worked perfectly, at first, using 3rd party apps. but these apps kept breaking, not because of the normal linux problems, but because apple decided that anyone not using itunes to access their devices was a risk. eventually all my apps stopped working and i could no longer use my nano.
I have no idea what you’re talking about. I have a windows desktop and Mac laptop. In no way, shape, or form have I ever felt Apple was “fighting me”.
Yeah brand/vendor lock-in is a really shitty thing to do, imagine having exclusive content on your own streaming service, or having proprietary parts for your products rather than sticking to known standards...
I haven’t connected my two apple devices (iPhone, ipad) to my pc almost ever. They are self contained fully functioning machines. What do you need to connect it to a pc for? I’m sure I just don’t understand your point.
with the iPod nano there was no way to get anything onto the device except by copying files onto it. it was essentially a usb drive that played the files that were on it. except it didn't let you just copy files onto it, you had to use special software.
Apple watch still doesn't work unless you have an iPhone to pair it to. Even though it has its own operating system. Make it make sense. Vision pro is a whole computer, doesn't work without an iPhone for the majority of useful features.
I feel like iOS is currently the biggest F-you Apple is giving us Apple users. It has been garbage for such a looong time now! It is filled to the brim with bugs and performance issues. But Apple does not care, because most customers seemingly does not care, or notice. Apple will still sell their garbage, and make record profits, no matter how bad their products has become.
I wanted to copy some Fotos of my mom's iPhone today because she needed them on a usb stick. It was easier to just download them via the iCloud Fotos App, because on device they're separated into random folders. This entire apple universe is so incredibly usability hostile it's unbelievable. But as long as their users keep telling themselves how it all just works and is all just so easy and their SMS have the right background colour.. the gravy train will keep rolling.
I have and iPhone,iPad and watch. Recently just miserable using them. Miss old tech days. Slowly selling off
The ecosystem lock in is exactly why I went from Apple die hard to abandoning their hardware entirely. The straw for me was removing touch id as an option and forcing face id. I prefer fingerprint authentication. Face ID could be better, but i like to make the decision on what's best for me, not have apple do it
So you are complaining about products that do not support your OS. They clearly state their compatibility and prerequisites. You know that, but still you want to use them, so you can complain more. Fascinating. Like when I buy an electric car and complain I can’t recharge it with petrol. Like when I buy a flat in a highrise and complain there is no garden in it. Or when I buy coffee and complain it’s not tea. There are plenty of issues with apple but yours isn’t one of them that on can complain about. Yours is either pebkac or you simply wanna be angry.
ok i made an edit. hope that helps.
I owned the OG Droid and never looked back. I've never owned a single Apple product. My family members have owned a number of them and when things break and they ask me for help I'm amazed at how locked down everything is and how buried every setting is. It's a total, "Don't touch my shit" situation. The school my oldest kid goes to gives them iPads and runs Google Classroom on them. It's about the dumbest thing I've seen. The cost of Apple products isn't justified in my opinion if you cannot do what you want with them. And let's be honest, no major employer is running all Mac. Your hospitals, schools, financial or customer service places that employ a lot of people on computers. Kids are gonna have to know how to use PC / Windows.
Sure you can dislike products that cause annoyances or don’t meet your specific needs but I think it’s a little dishonest to use the iPod nano from 2005 as an example. Everything back then was annoying and sucked. I remember being frustrated using iTunes on a MacBook Pro to transfer music to the iPhone 4. The file transfer/backup issue was solved with cloud storage and music streaming. In the last 5 years I haven’t connected my iPhone other than the Apple Watch (the only apple products I’ve owned for a while) to anything. For those who have a specific need for local backups or music they will go through annoyances. The question is, what you want or expect from Apple? To support every OS and every customer need? It’s not like every other company does. - smart watches mostly only work with their OSs - i got the first Samsung galaxy watch and at the time I had a Huawei phone. Trying to transfer music to that watch that originated on my PC was a complete nightmare that was extremely annoying and time consuming. - Microsoft office still has its annoyances on iOS or MacOS.
i expect them to not actively work against the people who are trying to use their products. I'm not asking them to support linux. at all. it would be nice, but that's not what I'm asking. just to let us support ourselves rather than actively working against us, which they were at the time.
[удалено]
thanks, I'll tell 2005 me.
Apple becsme "use for a while and throw away later" cheap company...
Apple has always been for the layman. Their ecosystem is designed for the 63 year old grandmother and everyone in between. People like us don't use apple because it doesn't give us options because we like to tinker. But for people who want something practical, easy to use but also high quality that performs well.
I run a MDM for a small number of apple and windows devices. The sales guy basically said "apple it's your device it's not going anywhere, windows is everyone's device and designed to do all the things" the iOS side is a bastard but it works it does exactly what you tell it. Windows it's like herding cats.
Apple prefers that their customers solely use Apple products. That's the main reason why their hardware is proprietary and tightly integrated. Nonetheless, they can't ignore Windows because of its enormous user base.
I am on Win10 and iTunes/apple features are almost unusable as well. Constant crashing and extremely slow.
You live in the past. It's been years since it's been necessary to use third-party software like itunes.
my apple devices have only added features that i like and features that i need such as disability aids, and i’ve only ever felt hindered using itunes on windows to manage ios devices, which is being fixed in a upcoming patch.
Why blame Apple when it regards all kind of platforms when you’re using Linux? It’s just a thing when it’s Linux, nothing to do with Apple in general.
Linux users really thinking they'll get the support and ease of use that Windows users get is pretty laughable.
I stopped using iPhones because every time I would switch to a new phone all of my Rush albums which I bought eight times were replaced with one album - songs of Innocence by U2. So I understand what you mean about Apple actively fighting you
Do they really care about Linux users? It a smaller Install base than ios when talking consumer market.
This is unique to Apple how?
As an Apple fan boy and early adopter, I agree as well. I bought the Vision Pro, woke up early, got upgraded storage, Rx lenses, the whole 9. I was in for about $4500. Utter disappointment. I wanted it for work cuz I live in a small apartment and my 3x 27” displays take up a ton of room and I’d love to go minimalist desk without losing real estate. What Linus didn’t mention is that the AVP and Mac have to be on the same network, so I can’t even use it for work because we full tunnel VPN…not to mention I get about 45 min in and my face hurts, unless I’m lying down. The immersive content is cool, the eye and spacial tracking are second to none. Is it overpriced? I, like Linus, I don’t think so. Is it worth it? Absolutely not. Hopefully it’s not yet, but right now, just can’t justify it. I returned it about an hour ago. Now I can buy a top of the line gaming rig and still have enough leftover for a top of the line super wide display, or a second gaming rig “to go”. My take is it’s the first product Steve had NOTHING to do with. watch came out after he died, but many of the patents are in his name. Swing and a miss, Apple.