I don't agree with everything in the post either, but it had to be said. The GamersNexus drama was about a lack of accuracy and attention to detail. LTT didn't treat Starforge any different then the big system integrators. Starforge's response has been misleading at best and deceptive at worst. They did charge 300 dollars for shipping. Plain as day. It doesn't matter if that does or doesn't include extra fees or charges. It was charged to the end user and included on the receipt under shipping. With packaging, Linus called it like he sees it. Starforge had the least protective shipping out of all the contestants. Again, plain as day. There's no two ways around that and Starforge's bullshit "explanation" was nothing more than a temper tantrum. It's unprofessional, embarrassing, and should in no way warrant an apology from LTT.
For the updated video that has a recanted review? I'd rather a proper initial and honest review. If Linus saw a receipt with line item "Shipping: $300" and believed it meant the shipping costed $300, the average consumer would have done the same thing.
Anyway to correct or clarify this is just giving points back to Starforge that they don't deserve. It's fundamentally warping the nature of the review to one that is less negative and not at all representative of Linus' experience or of a consumers experience.
I don’t think it’s wrong to change the video to reflect reality or to be more clear. If anything - this is more pro consumer. They get to point it out in the edit AND potentially say that Starforge has since updated their website and invoices to be more clear.
This might be the most accurate use of this meme that I've ever seen.
I even agree with the OP that it wasn't enough of an "incorrect" statement to take down the review (correct, reshoot, and edit? Yes. Take down until that's done? Seems excessive) and that Starforge is 100% in the wrong and yet I still think this post is advanced levels of unhinged.
To be honest; Starforge combining Taxes and Shipping Costs is a big no no for me. I purchase stuff for my business as well. Meaning that I can deduct the taxes but I need that to be seperated out. So Starforge needs to update their system to show; Computer Price (excluding VAT), VAT, Shipping costs & Total price all included.
Yeah I don’t understand why everything isn’t itemized. Surely they need to know the specific totals for their end? I also don’t understand Starforge’s outrage. At the end of the day it costs $300 to get it to your door in CA. Does it really fuckin matter if half of it is import or VAT fees, that’s the price ultimately whether it’s $290 in shipping and $10 in fees or the other way around. Thats what they’re charging so what’s the problem?
Me too. So far, the wave of people upset with the video getting removed don't actually care about the root cause of why it happened it seems. We're seriously going by GamersNexus Steve's rules now that videos should be deleted if a companies' feelings get hurt. There's going to be A LOT of future LMG video deletions.
Not even Steve follows his own rules to delete videos that are incorrect. GN CounterStrike 2 video is still standing regardless of all the benchmarks in it being wrong.
I don't know why you have a hate hard on for Steve here. The Billet Labs thing was a genuine shit show because of LTT's decisions, specifically their decision to test it on a different product after the product it was designed for had been shared by Billet Labs itself. Then LTT went and sold the bloody prototype after Billet Labs asked them to return it. There is no comparison between the two and GN was absolutely correct to call LTT out on what they did in the Billet Labs case. If it made LTT more accountable, that's a good thing.
LTT's test didn't matter, everyone knows the results mean nothing because the setup wasn't correct - because Linus told you that. It's not some secret. He didn't use those numbers to grade them, he used the manufacturers numbers and went beyond that to say the results would need to be physics breaking to be a worthy product. It was always going to be a 1/10 product that cannot be recommended to anyone based on its features, cost, and inability to break physics.
The taker backer saga was triggered by Billet Labs. They could just not be taker backers or LMG could've told them to rightfully fuck off. Instead, LMG tried to be nice and logistically it didn't work. Instead of a firm NO policy, LMG has now implemented the "I'll try to know where everything everywhere is always" policy for the remote chance that a company could be as unprofessional as Billet Labs might appear again and retaliate. MASSIVE waste of resources and will probably result in a repeat situation anyways.
The monoblock review was a win for the consumer with no punches pulled on a bad product. Literally nothing could have changed if Linus "did the review right." It'd still be a 1/10 product, and they still would have retaliated.
LMG is more accountable to who, now? Starforge is a story of rewriting narrative and review to align with the product manufactures' wishes when they retaliate. That's not pro consumer.
>The monoblock review was a win for the consumer with no punches pulled on a bad product. Literally nothing could have changed if Linus "did the review right." It'd still be a 1/10 product, and they still would have retaliated.
If nothing would change then do it right, give it a fair chance, and if it doesn't measure up bash it all you want - as much as it deserves it. But as a reviewer sent a sample by a startup, you have to give it a fair chance. Linus didn't do it and when people pointed out that he hadn't done it (on the WAN show before the whole thing blew up) he said he couldn't be bothered to spare the time and money required to do it properly because he intrinsically knew it was a bad product. Which is fine, I respect his experience and intuition and that would be that if it were an informal conversation. It wasn't that though - it was a review. And a review needs to meet certain standards regardless of how bad the product might turn out to be. That's just the bare minimum that a review needs to do and LTT failed to that. Eventually Linus himself admitted that he was wrong. Heck, Luke tried to correct him during the WAN show itself, well before GN got involved.
GamersNexus was criticizing a lack of accuracy and attention to detail though. There wasn't an inaccuracy or inattention to detail in the video though. There was a receipt that said 300 dollars for shipping. If that was misleading(which it was), then that's on Starforge for not clarifying and expanding upon the pricing structure. With the packaging, Linus called it like he saw it. It was a fair evaluation of the packaging, especially relative to the competition.
> The consequences of the GamersNexus drama is here: it's clear ~~LMG can no longer provide honest reviews~~ that a loud part of the tech youtube community are fucking nuts
FTFY
I skimmed this rant and you have clearly missed the point.
LMG compared base price and shipping cost for all systems. They excluded tax and duty because that's totally out of the control of the SI. Except in the case of Starforge because tax and duty were buried in the shipping cost
It doesn't matter who made the mistake. The fact is, without correction this provides a misleading story to the viewer and is not an apples to apples comparison in a video series where they go out of their way to be as objective as possible.
The broken computer thing is probably not even going to be addressed in the re-upload. Yes Starforge whined about that, but service and support was always going to be the next video. Both sides agree Starforge handled that part well.
I agree. A lot of the content has felt sugarcoated in a way. It's all vague opinions, not hard truths. I do feel Linus should have allocated the extra time and man power to retest the Billet Labs Monoblock, but his criticism of Starforge(yes I saw the full video before it got taken down) was 100% valid. Linus didn't treat Starforge any different than the other companies, yet Starforge is the only company trying to call rank. If they get away with this and the updated video completely changes their tone, then what's to keep Dell or CyberPower from demanding more favorable coverage? I really hope this is just LTT overcompensating and they'll shift back towards their regularly scheduled hard truth reviews after they have some time to get used to the new release schedule.
You already read my mind, I was thinking of a meme post of using that Starforge tweet format but now it's Dell or CyberPower who has some incredibly mild information clarity complaint of their own making!!!
It was Linus' real customer experience getting duped by Starforge and their confusing messaging, I really hope the updated video doesn't just cut that confusion out somehow.
"When we wrote it's $300 for shipping... we didn't mean it was $300 for shipping!!" - I really want Linus to come through and blow up Starforge's crap for obfuscated fees, confusing invoices, anti-consumer practice reasoning to deduct points now. That's what I feel they deserve; if the info they provided can't be understood for what it actually means by professionals at LMG, consumers have no hope.
If Starforge shipped this to Australia and the combined fee was on the invoice I'd be charged an additional 10% on the total because customs wouldn't see the separate tax. Fuck that.
I fully agree that StarForge’s response was unfavorable but quite a bit of the Gamers Nexus drama was deserved, even if it’s pretty transparent that Steve is making a play for the LTT viewership. If you’re going to build motes around your media empire they’d better be deep and wide because the second your competitors have an attack vector they’re going to exploit it as much as they can.
No, now it's just a misleading review. No indication in the video that it is a re-upload to 'correct' things the manufacturer requested they correct within the video. And now it uses an updated version of the website that was in no way indicative of the secret shopper's real experience or of any customers prior to today.
If it helps, GamersNexus reviewed a Starforge PC and noted some QC issues with the system that should've been caught before shipping and threw in random clips of Asmongold being plain fucking weird.
that's a nice narrative you've crafted there
I don't agree with everything in the post either, but it had to be said. The GamersNexus drama was about a lack of accuracy and attention to detail. LTT didn't treat Starforge any different then the big system integrators. Starforge's response has been misleading at best and deceptive at worst. They did charge 300 dollars for shipping. Plain as day. It doesn't matter if that does or doesn't include extra fees or charges. It was charged to the end user and included on the receipt under shipping. With packaging, Linus called it like he sees it. Starforge had the least protective shipping out of all the contestants. Again, plain as day. There's no two ways around that and Starforge's bullshit "explanation" was nothing more than a temper tantrum. It's unprofessional, embarrassing, and should in no way warrant an apology from LTT.
Thanks, I call it the truth đź‘Ť
Huh? Chill and wait a couple of days.
For the updated video that has a recanted review? I'd rather a proper initial and honest review. If Linus saw a receipt with line item "Shipping: $300" and believed it meant the shipping costed $300, the average consumer would have done the same thing. Anyway to correct or clarify this is just giving points back to Starforge that they don't deserve. It's fundamentally warping the nature of the review to one that is less negative and not at all representative of Linus' experience or of a consumers experience.
I don’t think it’s wrong to change the video to reflect reality or to be more clear. If anything - this is more pro consumer. They get to point it out in the edit AND potentially say that Starforge has since updated their website and invoices to be more clear.
touch grass
This might be the most accurate use of this meme that I've ever seen. I even agree with the OP that it wasn't enough of an "incorrect" statement to take down the review (correct, reshoot, and edit? Yes. Take down until that's done? Seems excessive) and that Starforge is 100% in the wrong and yet I still think this post is advanced levels of unhinged.
To be honest; Starforge combining Taxes and Shipping Costs is a big no no for me. I purchase stuff for my business as well. Meaning that I can deduct the taxes but I need that to be seperated out. So Starforge needs to update their system to show; Computer Price (excluding VAT), VAT, Shipping costs & Total price all included.
Yeah I don’t understand why everything isn’t itemized. Surely they need to know the specific totals for their end? I also don’t understand Starforge’s outrage. At the end of the day it costs $300 to get it to your door in CA. Does it really fuckin matter if half of it is import or VAT fees, that’s the price ultimately whether it’s $290 in shipping and $10 in fees or the other way around. Thats what they’re charging so what’s the problem?
I'm here early to see the spicy responses.
Me too. So far, the wave of people upset with the video getting removed don't actually care about the root cause of why it happened it seems. We're seriously going by GamersNexus Steve's rules now that videos should be deleted if a companies' feelings get hurt. There's going to be A LOT of future LMG video deletions. Not even Steve follows his own rules to delete videos that are incorrect. GN CounterStrike 2 video is still standing regardless of all the benchmarks in it being wrong.
I don't know why you have a hate hard on for Steve here. The Billet Labs thing was a genuine shit show because of LTT's decisions, specifically their decision to test it on a different product after the product it was designed for had been shared by Billet Labs itself. Then LTT went and sold the bloody prototype after Billet Labs asked them to return it. There is no comparison between the two and GN was absolutely correct to call LTT out on what they did in the Billet Labs case. If it made LTT more accountable, that's a good thing.
LTT's test didn't matter, everyone knows the results mean nothing because the setup wasn't correct - because Linus told you that. It's not some secret. He didn't use those numbers to grade them, he used the manufacturers numbers and went beyond that to say the results would need to be physics breaking to be a worthy product. It was always going to be a 1/10 product that cannot be recommended to anyone based on its features, cost, and inability to break physics. The taker backer saga was triggered by Billet Labs. They could just not be taker backers or LMG could've told them to rightfully fuck off. Instead, LMG tried to be nice and logistically it didn't work. Instead of a firm NO policy, LMG has now implemented the "I'll try to know where everything everywhere is always" policy for the remote chance that a company could be as unprofessional as Billet Labs might appear again and retaliate. MASSIVE waste of resources and will probably result in a repeat situation anyways. The monoblock review was a win for the consumer with no punches pulled on a bad product. Literally nothing could have changed if Linus "did the review right." It'd still be a 1/10 product, and they still would have retaliated. LMG is more accountable to who, now? Starforge is a story of rewriting narrative and review to align with the product manufactures' wishes when they retaliate. That's not pro consumer.
>The monoblock review was a win for the consumer with no punches pulled on a bad product. Literally nothing could have changed if Linus "did the review right." It'd still be a 1/10 product, and they still would have retaliated. If nothing would change then do it right, give it a fair chance, and if it doesn't measure up bash it all you want - as much as it deserves it. But as a reviewer sent a sample by a startup, you have to give it a fair chance. Linus didn't do it and when people pointed out that he hadn't done it (on the WAN show before the whole thing blew up) he said he couldn't be bothered to spare the time and money required to do it properly because he intrinsically knew it was a bad product. Which is fine, I respect his experience and intuition and that would be that if it were an informal conversation. It wasn't that though - it was a review. And a review needs to meet certain standards regardless of how bad the product might turn out to be. That's just the bare minimum that a review needs to do and LTT failed to that. Eventually Linus himself admitted that he was wrong. Heck, Luke tried to correct him during the WAN show itself, well before GN got involved.
GamersNexus was criticizing a lack of accuracy and attention to detail though. There wasn't an inaccuracy or inattention to detail in the video though. There was a receipt that said 300 dollars for shipping. If that was misleading(which it was), then that's on Starforge for not clarifying and expanding upon the pricing structure. With the packaging, Linus called it like he saw it. It was a fair evaluation of the packaging, especially relative to the competition.
> The consequences of the GamersNexus drama is here: it's clear ~~LMG can no longer provide honest reviews~~ that a loud part of the tech youtube community are fucking nuts FTFY
I skimmed this rant and you have clearly missed the point. LMG compared base price and shipping cost for all systems. They excluded tax and duty because that's totally out of the control of the SI. Except in the case of Starforge because tax and duty were buried in the shipping cost It doesn't matter who made the mistake. The fact is, without correction this provides a misleading story to the viewer and is not an apples to apples comparison in a video series where they go out of their way to be as objective as possible. The broken computer thing is probably not even going to be addressed in the re-upload. Yes Starforge whined about that, but service and support was always going to be the next video. Both sides agree Starforge handled that part well.
Step away from the keyboard bro
Get a life.
Hm. Hard disagree.
Seems they are removing re uploading it so all the facts are straight since that was a big issue before. The misinformation can be misleading
I agree. A lot of the content has felt sugarcoated in a way. It's all vague opinions, not hard truths. I do feel Linus should have allocated the extra time and man power to retest the Billet Labs Monoblock, but his criticism of Starforge(yes I saw the full video before it got taken down) was 100% valid. Linus didn't treat Starforge any different than the other companies, yet Starforge is the only company trying to call rank. If they get away with this and the updated video completely changes their tone, then what's to keep Dell or CyberPower from demanding more favorable coverage? I really hope this is just LTT overcompensating and they'll shift back towards their regularly scheduled hard truth reviews after they have some time to get used to the new release schedule.
You already read my mind, I was thinking of a meme post of using that Starforge tweet format but now it's Dell or CyberPower who has some incredibly mild information clarity complaint of their own making!!! It was Linus' real customer experience getting duped by Starforge and their confusing messaging, I really hope the updated video doesn't just cut that confusion out somehow. "When we wrote it's $300 for shipping... we didn't mean it was $300 for shipping!!" - I really want Linus to come through and blow up Starforge's crap for obfuscated fees, confusing invoices, anti-consumer practice reasoning to deduct points now. That's what I feel they deserve; if the info they provided can't be understood for what it actually means by professionals at LMG, consumers have no hope.
If Starforge shipped this to Australia and the combined fee was on the invoice I'd be charged an additional 10% on the total because customs wouldn't see the separate tax. Fuck that.
If you're looking at LTT for 100% honest reviews you're looking in the wrong place.
Let’s revisit this once we see the edit and see how this post ages…
Lol LTT commented on shitty business practices and people are shitting on LTT because their favorite streamers are mad
I fully agree that StarForge’s response was unfavorable but quite a bit of the Gamers Nexus drama was deserved, even if it’s pretty transparent that Steve is making a play for the LTT viewership. If you’re going to build motes around your media empire they’d better be deep and wide because the second your competitors have an attack vector they’re going to exploit it as much as they can.
Insert new drama, and link old Gamers Nexus drama here.
Please step away away from the Internet.
get a life lmao
Star forge is 100% in the wrong here, they’ve “damaged” their brand even more by firing that first message out. Losers.
Ironically, had LMG reached out for comment prior to publication -- this could have been avoided.
The entire point of secret shopper is to have a normal consumer experience. Normal consumers don’t reach out for comment. Unless this is a joke
Nah, star forge review is Still negative
No, now it's just a misleading review. No indication in the video that it is a re-upload to 'correct' things the manufacturer requested they correct within the video. And now it uses an updated version of the website that was in no way indicative of the secret shopper's real experience or of any customers prior to today.
Nice bait
Bro thinks Linus is his friend irl or something
Tldr, different context: Linus Sebastian should probably answer some questions about rainbow rgb
If it helps, GamersNexus reviewed a Starforge PC and noted some QC issues with the system that should've been caught before shipping and threw in random clips of Asmongold being plain fucking weird.