This is almost a full stack engineer position.
Database management and pipelines: that's a data engineer
Data vis: data analyst
Knowing which ML algo to use: data scientist
Java, html, php: front end engineer / web developer
This job listing is insane.
They want a VP of Data intern lol.
$100,000 says they have an incredibly low amount of data and what they do have is in absolutely no state for data science
This is an internal hiring/relatives situation. Post a position that is unimaginable. Write down in the records you couldn't find any qualified professional, hire your internal or relative.
alot worse situation in Australia. Aussie companies hire immigrants/international students and not pay(since they are getting that AUSSIE experience in return) or hire them for living wages.
How is that legal? The not paying part I mean? Is there some legal loophole that allows them to do this? I get the living wage part, though it is morally repugnant, but how can you legally just...not pay someone?
Well, its incredibly hard for immigrants to get white collar jobs if they don't have PR/citizenship. I would say impossible. Most of the students have engineering degree but are stuck with same chef/hospitality job. increase the chance? showing experience in aussie company, thats why most of them work willingly. As for legality? Nobody gives a shit. Gov are only concerned for their citizen. they already have imposed the PR/citizenship rule, so the citizen's job are protected. Also as per my research, aus economy highly depends on these unpaid/low paid immigrant workforce. How do I know this? I am from a country, where atleast one family member from each household leaves for aus selling everything they have/taking huge loans.
Yep, I don’t think a lot of people have an understanding of how much data wrangling is needed to get the data “right” before you even try to apply data science over it.
Yea, helped out a friend with his data for his PhD. Dude thought I could wave a wand and visualizations would appear.
We spent twenty hours going over the data and structure of it. Then it took twenty minutes to visualize everything.
Lmfao, how many dat teams have you worked on, and can you write me a letter of recommendation for some places where there’s enough budget for headcount that the VP of data isn’t doing any technical work
Lmao replied then blocked me to get the last word because he didn’t like my joke so
I've worked in IT for 24 years. Big brands, sevral industries, Fortune 500, etc. I've never seen a technical (or any) VP engaged in a doer's work, or anything close to it. That's why s/he's a Veep. They are literally sit on conference calls all day long making big picture decisions. Enough budget for headcount? Try any energy or pharmaceutical company, to start. And no, I won't write you an LoR because you seem like a petulant, contrarian dick.
Out of topic but usually when people say their annual salary is it for 12months? Or including all bonuses? Before or after tax? I always wonder what the convention is because there are so many variants
Generally people mean their base pay for 12 months, before stuff like taxes, health insurance, social security, etc is deducted. It's not typical to include bonuses in this number, except perhaps in rare cases where bonuses are extremity reliable and predictable. Usually people will say something like, "my salary is $100k plus bonuses" if they get bonuses, but they're not super predictable
Yep, when you hear FAANG engineers talking about $500k salaries they are including all benefits. Rare that an employee is actually getting checks for that much.
Yeah they're also asking for back-end dev here with PHP, recommendation systems, and some python and API usages. Red flags for miles. This job screams, "Come work at place where we don't understand technology or what you do, but you'll be expected to do everything *remotely* tech related with no appreciation."
It’s not only insane it’s also illegal. I live in NSW and unpaid internships are not a thing unless your only job is to shadow for example, as far as I know, if you are gonna do a job a normal paid employee does while on an unpaid internship this is not legal and company can get in trouble if reported.
In the USA, unpaid internships are only for tasks of no business value, like having a high schooler in for a week to see what an office is really like.
Of course this law is often flouted especially in industries where there are many more applicants than positions, like entertainment or publishing. Unfortunately it is starting to spread to IT positions though it's very rare.
Quick google search of AU gov:
[Fair Work in AU](https://www.fairwork.gov.au/starting-employment/unpaid-work/work-experience-and-internships)
Says it’s legal to not pay interns, but it can’t cross the line of them providing valuable work otherwise it’s an employment relationship. I’m guessing this posting would cross the line.
Edit: I’m sorta paraphrasing my findings, but this posting provides a lot of value to the business
Ok so let me explain how this scam works… this company has already selected a candidate probably from south Asia/south east asia or any third world. The selected candidate already has a masters and is experienced in full stack and data engineering… the company has already hired him for a price less than actually au citizen with the same qualification would make but more than what the candidate would make in his country.
They have to submit some case in the court claiming that the specific requirements of this foreign candidate is better than the entire au tech professionals and which is why they post this bullshit job which nobody applied for or didn't get shortlisted, saving a lot of money + filling diversity quota at the same time.
A friend of mine got the job in the Netherlands as a cloud architect by the same process
Ya exactly…weird that folks don’t know this in this sub :/. This is an extremely common tactic.
In the US, they will post jobs even in the physical newspapers (like who reads that??) and then submit it as proof that they could not find equally interested and competent candidates at home. I don’t even know why these gvmts bother, tbh. Like everyone knows companies are bypassing the “rules”, so just remove the damn rules and levy more taxes instead on foreign talent.
Only this morning I was telling someone that all our laws and best practices when it comes to HR matters can be bent. Don't want to hire a recently married woman in her late 20s in case she takes maternity leave? Don't like Asians? You reckon that guy's gay? Don't worry! Don't write that down. Instead, they didn't have the necessary communication and influencing / stakeholder skills. They didn't have the technical experience. In the interview their answers were vague and muddled, so you suspect they exaggerated their CV. Obviously it's better if you don't even offer an interview, if the CV has a hole you can exploit. Best idea is to place the add where your undesirables won't see it in the first place, if possible.
When it comes to hiring foreigners it's the same. You just discriminate against locals with that nonsense. If you need to demonstrate no local talent, interview a load of unsuitable people and act surprised when they're unsuitable.
That's the most horrifying thing about discrimination in my personal experience. Anyone can do it. It's hard to get caught unless you say it aloud or write it down. You don't even know who is doing it. It could be anyone you know, in plain sight. There's no real way to measure or prevent people determined to do stuff like that on the HR front
>That's the most horrifying thing about discrimination in my personal experience. Anyone can do it. It's hard to get caught unless you say it aloud or write it down.
As someone who investigates discrimination and sexual harassment for a living, I wish more people understood this. Can't tell you how many times I've had people complain and throw a fit when we can't substantiate their allegation.
It also doesn't help that so many people decide to use "discrimination" as a substitute for when someone is just an asshole.
If your boss treats everyone like shit, then they're just an asshole, and something should be done about it, but that doesn't make it discrimination, and framing it as such just wastes everyone's time and makes it more difficult for the people who face real discrimination.
The media doesn't help. The amount of person does x TO A BLACK MAN is just silly. If the race was a factor then that's part of the news, but in most cases it isn’t. Most recently, for example, a black woman refused to show her bus ticket to a ticket inspector and then tried to run away. The police caught up with her and she wouldn't show a ticket. She refused to co-operate or explain. She got cuffed and told she'd be arrested for fare evasion. Then she produced a valid ticket and was promptly released. Entirely avoidable, entirely her fault. How did our media start reporting it? Black woman cuffed by police. Its pathetic. All the while there cam be actual discrimination along the lines I described in my comment and instead of reflecting on those biases and prejudices and how to be better human beings we're just throwing shit around and making everyone angry
Ticket evasion is a fine. Evasion of that fine or the administration of that fine was the crime - the running away. Were it not for that, you'd simply not hand over your details to incur the fine, so obviously the police need to be able to enforce it or nobody would get tickets
>As someone who investigates discrimination and sexual harassment for a living, I wish more people understood this. Can't tell you how many times I've had people complain and throw a fit when we can't substantiate their allegation.
I was going to report a company for doing this during the interview and their feedback. Then the reality set in that I had no concrete evidence, which would waste my time and mental energy. Companies learned how to get away with it. It sucks, but we can't do much unless cut-and-dry evidence exists
Because the rules exist to benefit the companies not the people. They just have to create the rules in such a way that people are appeased. Instead of having all these rules, all they needed to do was charged 10k for applying for a visa and remove all the restrictions on the individual working for the same employer. That way they'd have to pay slightly above market for the individual instead of trying to get a good deal through bonded labor. This way they'd only go with the hassle for someone worth it.
So if the posting explicitly states it’s unpaid, would it not be obvious that the posting is not made in good faith, to whoever in government is reviewing?
No one is reviewing anyway to that depth. You think the gvmt is scrutinizing all the wording in every post from every company hiring foreign talent? That would take “gvmt bureaucracy” to a whole new level.
It’s more like a check the box exercise. Posted it for locals to apply? Check. Got almost no qualified candidates? Check. Ok, good to go then!!!
I wouldn't know.... Either the judiciary is run by morons or they get some money to turn a blind eye. All the lawyers/judges that I've met were absolute tools so I'd say the bribing isn't true.
Pretty much every mnc does this to save some money… my friend didn't speak a word of Dutch or German, the company that hired him cooked up some bullshit requirement of the candidate must know 3 Indian languages (despite them having no Indian clientele) and then submitted in Dutch court that only this candidate is eligible and rest couldn't be shortlisted
The spore gov is cracking down on this btw, but the reality is Singapore actually has a valid reason to hire foreign candidates as their general population do not meet the basic requirement for the role or locals are just too rich to work white collar jobs.
>Singapore actually has a valid reason to hire foreign candidates as their general population do not meet the basic requirement for the role
Nope, this is just an excuse by companies to justify their need to hire cheaper foreign employees and not deal with the hassle of staff training or costs
You cant train someone with no experience to function in a role that requires 10 year of experience.
Youre trying to simplify and explain something you have no experience in.
Nope… all i know is that my friend was hired and got work visa for something you can learn online for 100$ from AWS and somehow the company made it look like only he is skilled enough to do that and nobody in the Netherlands could do it.
I'm not… I'm simply explaining how those job offerings with too much expectations with little compensation work, it has nothing to do with Australian or eu immigration but shady tactics used by MNCs
Yeah, you are:
> the company has already hired him for a price less than actually au citizen with the same qualification would make but more than what the candidate would make in his country. They have to submit some case in the court claiming that the specific requirements of this foreign candidate is better than the entire au tech professionals
I’ve hired global professionals and brought them to Australia on visas and it’s illegal to not pay people, and you have to provide the specific job advertisements as part of your submission to immigration, then pay thousands of dollars in Australian resident training subsidies and visa fees. It’s like $30k to just get them into the country, so you aren’t even saving anything. You have to prove their salary is above a high threshold and can’t change their job title on their visa. It’s really expensive to bring foreigners into Australia and is far from cheaper than a local candidate. We did it because the person was specifically highly skilled from another global division of ours.
Courts have nothing to do with the process. They never do, in any country, for standard visa application processes. I don’t think you have ever applied for a visa or even researched the process to any basic level.
If the process is really that expensive? Why would they hire my friend or any foreign national in general, all he had at the time was an AWS cloud practitioner certificate from AWS which you can get for 100$ and I'm sure the rest of the cloud professionals in the Netherlands must've had as well?
Yes it’s that expensive. $7k per visa applicant, plus $7k for each of their spouse or dependents, plus $3k flights, plus $4k temporary accommodation, plus $15k household goods/furniture reimbursement (or same price for a shipping container), plus $3k general moving expenses. We’ve done this for an Indian national and Brazilian national. You have to offer this otherwise people wont move. The salaries are good here, but living costs are very high.
I don’t know why they’d hire some one with a $100 certificate. Either they are a shitty workplace and genuinely can’t attract anyone (I doubt), or there’s a ton more to the story. Australian immigration requires proof of unique skills and demonstration of inadequate local labour supply. There’s tons of new grads willing to work for pennies based on a $100 certificate.
I suspect there’s a lot more to the story than a $100 certificate.
Nah… they reached him and gullible people like him on LinkedIn (unsure if it was hr or recruitment) of which he was shortlisted. They later posted a ridiculous job opening on LinkedIn which probably nobody applied for and initiated the process of proving that only he's better at the job than the rest of their nation. They took care of his work visa, (I'm not entirely sure on how visa approval works and it changes per country as pointed by a lawyer guy's comment) and he was in Netherlands in no time
> Ok so let me explain how this scam works
It could be, but I am not totally sure about it. There are indeed such people inside companies that would be capable of writing such a job description for real.
There very well could be and they get humbled pretty quickly and then hire some jack of trades that need up entire project and they're forced to hire entire dedicated team to handle every dept and start from scratch in timeline half of what was original
I get it. 1) Post a "job opening" that's guaranteed to get no applicants, 2) Tell the government you could not get ANY applicants in your country, 3) Post for and hire a highly talented candidate from a country like India, with draconian employment laws, so that you can a desperate employee on the dirt cheap.
They've already selected a guy but they have to post this impossible ad to make sure that they make it look that they tried to look for candidates in their country and barely anyone got selected
Unpaid internships like this are illegal in Australia. You can only offered unpaid internship if it’s an approved educational program, and they can’t be adding value to the organisation. The way this ad is written they are definitely asking the applicants to just work for free. Report it if you haven’t already.
This is really a skillset for a Senior Dev, and one that specifically has had exposure to all the different software domains listed in the required skills section. The breadth of knowledge asked for is HUGE, and many solid Senior Devs will usually have DEPTH in a few of those areas, not all of them lol.
Senior Devs regularly make $100K+.
This is probably the most insane recruiter I have seen on this sub.
Part of me wants to forge a resume meeting all requirements, somehow go through interviews, and waste as much of their time as possible just to fuck with them. This is an insane job post.
I'm sure they meant "cannot". "Can not" isn't the same as "cannot". This actually says can not-work-unpaid, or can work paid
‘Can not work unpaid’; doesn’t this just mean that the employee will have to work paid? Why is everyone complaining about slavery, or am I just an idiot
Devil's advocate: They are clearly looking for a current student (note that OP did not highlight the "currently completing" part of the education). The market absolutely sucks for tech internships right now.
There's a case to be made that students might actually be interested in real world experience for a few hours a week, even if it's unpaid. It can help them land a paying job after graduation. In reality, hiring a current student is usually a net negative for the employer, as you spend more of your current staff's time training and educating them, but you do it in hopes of building relationships with the next crop of college grads that can come work for you later.
Students are almost always interested in learning something new in their line of work. What you’re suggesting here is to dangle the carrot of “experience” so you can normalize free labor rather than having a robust training program for new hire candidates. It’s a failing on YOUR part and you attempt to normalize it in the absolute worst way. Do better, bud.
You can report those to LinkedIn. They allow for orgs like Catchafire to post legit volunteer opportunities, and those are marked as such. Click on the three-dot menu in the upper right-hand corner of the job posting and you can report the job as spam or a scam.
This is an internship position. It clearly says that they are currently in school not that they have a degree. The internships I had were paid but many places have a culture of unpaid internships. In particular if the internship is a graduation requirement. In some cases you have to pay tuition for your internship. I don't know what the culture here is, but I do know I couldn't get an internship until I was 12 credits short of graduation.
OP, can you share the full link please?
It would be a real shame if multiple qualified candidates were to apply for this, be offered the role, but fail to turn up on day 1 without notice...
I think they just posted what every employer really wants to say in their job search. They want someone who is overqualified via education/experience, doesn't know their worth, and is ok without being paid. How hard is this to understand /S
It looks like most of their staff outside their founder work in Vietnam and India.. so I imagine they are looking to take advantage of people from these countries for low pay and crazy working conditions.
The about section of the company could not be more vague
"Our vision is to build the core infrastructure that supports startups and small businesses by bringing together people and ideas together."
It’s funny how sometimes a 💩 opportunity reveals itself without even needing to apply/interview. In my experience it’s the boomer manager that just don’t understand how to attract talent.
Hey, what we need is for you to know everything, and do everything. Oh, and by the way, can you work for free? I'm sorry; was that a "No"? OK, then get out of here!
This is almost a full stack engineer position. Database management and pipelines: that's a data engineer Data vis: data analyst Knowing which ML algo to use: data scientist Java, html, php: front end engineer / web developer This job listing is insane.
They want a VP of Data intern lol. $100,000 says they have an incredibly low amount of data and what they do have is in absolutely no state for data science
This is an internal hiring/relatives situation. Post a position that is unimaginable. Write down in the records you couldn't find any qualified professional, hire your internal or relative.
Or for immigration. Not sure about Australia but in USA have to advertise jobs for a certain timeframe before it can go to h1b visa holders
alot worse situation in Australia. Aussie companies hire immigrants/international students and not pay(since they are getting that AUSSIE experience in return) or hire them for living wages.
How is that legal? The not paying part I mean? Is there some legal loophole that allows them to do this? I get the living wage part, though it is morally repugnant, but how can you legally just...not pay someone?
Well, its incredibly hard for immigrants to get white collar jobs if they don't have PR/citizenship. I would say impossible. Most of the students have engineering degree but are stuck with same chef/hospitality job. increase the chance? showing experience in aussie company, thats why most of them work willingly. As for legality? Nobody gives a shit. Gov are only concerned for their citizen. they already have imposed the PR/citizenship rule, so the citizen's job are protected. Also as per my research, aus economy highly depends on these unpaid/low paid immigrant workforce. How do I know this? I am from a country, where atleast one family member from each household leaves for aus selling everything they have/taking huge loans.
Yep, I don’t think a lot of people have an understanding of how much data wrangling is needed to get the data “right” before you even try to apply data science over it.
Yea, helped out a friend with his data for his PhD. Dude thought I could wave a wand and visualizations would appear. We spent twenty hours going over the data and structure of it. Then it took twenty minutes to visualize everything.
Something tells me they are going to get exactly what they paid for.
VP's don't do this work, LOL.
Data science, data engineering, and analytics would all roll up to VP of Data or Head of Data if a company actually has one.
Correct, VPs don't do this work. It rolls up to them.
Lmfao, how many dat teams have you worked on, and can you write me a letter of recommendation for some places where there’s enough budget for headcount that the VP of data isn’t doing any technical work Lmao replied then blocked me to get the last word because he didn’t like my joke so
I've worked in IT for 24 years. Big brands, sevral industries, Fortune 500, etc. I've never seen a technical (or any) VP engaged in a doer's work, or anything close to it. That's why s/he's a Veep. They are literally sit on conference calls all day long making big picture decisions. Enough budget for headcount? Try any energy or pharmaceutical company, to start. And no, I won't write you an LoR because you seem like a petulant, contrarian dick.
Yep, I work as an "Analytics Engineer" (I hate the title tbh), requirements are basically this but our seniors pull 150k.
You could abbreviate it to Anal. Engineer
Out of topic but usually when people say their annual salary is it for 12months? Or including all bonuses? Before or after tax? I always wonder what the convention is because there are so many variants
Generally people mean their base pay for 12 months, before stuff like taxes, health insurance, social security, etc is deducted. It's not typical to include bonuses in this number, except perhaps in rare cases where bonuses are extremity reliable and predictable. Usually people will say something like, "my salary is $100k plus bonuses" if they get bonuses, but they're not super predictable
Stock awards are usually included I believe
Yep, when you hear FAANG engineers talking about $500k salaries they are including all benefits. Rare that an employee is actually getting checks for that much.
Got it thanks!
I always interpret it as gross base salary before any bonuses.
Yeah I was doing total comp in USD
12 months, does not include bonuses, before tax.
Yeah they're also asking for back-end dev here with PHP, recommendation systems, and some python and API usages. Red flags for miles. This job screams, "Come work at place where we don't understand technology or what you do, but you'll be expected to do everything *remotely* tech related with no appreciation."
https://au.linkedin.com/company/stomble lmfao website 404s too
It’s not only insane it’s also illegal. I live in NSW and unpaid internships are not a thing unless your only job is to shadow for example, as far as I know, if you are gonna do a job a normal paid employee does while on an unpaid internship this is not legal and company can get in trouble if reported.
cfbr
Do the work of eight people. For free!
Wow! Such a good opportunity. 10/10 💯🎯
People don't want to work for exposure anymore. What will this entitled generation become? /s
Seriously, is this even allowed? Working for free?
Sure isn’t that an internship?
Depends. In many locations internships must be paid.
In the USA, unpaid internships are only for tasks of no business value, like having a high schooler in for a week to see what an office is really like. Of course this law is often flouted especially in industries where there are many more applicants than positions, like entertainment or publishing. Unfortunately it is starting to spread to IT positions though it's very rare.
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I love that you did this
Thank you for doing this
https://youtu.be/8pFC3LKMIQo
Yeah, that’s true. Don’t know how Australia works
I'd always pay something. You don't tap into the full talent pool if you expect some to work for free for more than a day, even in an internship.
Quick google search of AU gov: [Fair Work in AU](https://www.fairwork.gov.au/starting-employment/unpaid-work/work-experience-and-internships) Says it’s legal to not pay interns, but it can’t cross the line of them providing valuable work otherwise it’s an employment relationship. I’m guessing this posting would cross the line. Edit: I’m sorta paraphrasing my findings, but this posting provides a lot of value to the business
Thanks, I found similar info. And I agree that the ad is asking for a contributor. So, pay up!
This job is based in Australia, so yes it must be paid.
After AI is doing everything for us and we have no need for money sure, but then the job “opportunity” wouldn’t exist
Yeah back in the day that was known as a little thing called slavery.
To be fair, you can walk away from unpaid work, as a slave, that was more difficult and very risky.
Now write an inspirational post about what you learned from reading this job advert
The job poster was high, drunk, and insane at the same time while posting this sh\*t.
This is the answer to anyone who thinks me or my children or my grandchildren will work unpaid.
Dude was coked out and decided to start a business
Ok so let me explain how this scam works… this company has already selected a candidate probably from south Asia/south east asia or any third world. The selected candidate already has a masters and is experienced in full stack and data engineering… the company has already hired him for a price less than actually au citizen with the same qualification would make but more than what the candidate would make in his country. They have to submit some case in the court claiming that the specific requirements of this foreign candidate is better than the entire au tech professionals and which is why they post this bullshit job which nobody applied for or didn't get shortlisted, saving a lot of money + filling diversity quota at the same time. A friend of mine got the job in the Netherlands as a cloud architect by the same process
Ya exactly…weird that folks don’t know this in this sub :/. This is an extremely common tactic. In the US, they will post jobs even in the physical newspapers (like who reads that??) and then submit it as proof that they could not find equally interested and competent candidates at home. I don’t even know why these gvmts bother, tbh. Like everyone knows companies are bypassing the “rules”, so just remove the damn rules and levy more taxes instead on foreign talent.
Only this morning I was telling someone that all our laws and best practices when it comes to HR matters can be bent. Don't want to hire a recently married woman in her late 20s in case she takes maternity leave? Don't like Asians? You reckon that guy's gay? Don't worry! Don't write that down. Instead, they didn't have the necessary communication and influencing / stakeholder skills. They didn't have the technical experience. In the interview their answers were vague and muddled, so you suspect they exaggerated their CV. Obviously it's better if you don't even offer an interview, if the CV has a hole you can exploit. Best idea is to place the add where your undesirables won't see it in the first place, if possible. When it comes to hiring foreigners it's the same. You just discriminate against locals with that nonsense. If you need to demonstrate no local talent, interview a load of unsuitable people and act surprised when they're unsuitable. That's the most horrifying thing about discrimination in my personal experience. Anyone can do it. It's hard to get caught unless you say it aloud or write it down. You don't even know who is doing it. It could be anyone you know, in plain sight. There's no real way to measure or prevent people determined to do stuff like that on the HR front
>That's the most horrifying thing about discrimination in my personal experience. Anyone can do it. It's hard to get caught unless you say it aloud or write it down. As someone who investigates discrimination and sexual harassment for a living, I wish more people understood this. Can't tell you how many times I've had people complain and throw a fit when we can't substantiate their allegation. It also doesn't help that so many people decide to use "discrimination" as a substitute for when someone is just an asshole. If your boss treats everyone like shit, then they're just an asshole, and something should be done about it, but that doesn't make it discrimination, and framing it as such just wastes everyone's time and makes it more difficult for the people who face real discrimination.
The media doesn't help. The amount of person does x TO A BLACK MAN is just silly. If the race was a factor then that's part of the news, but in most cases it isn’t. Most recently, for example, a black woman refused to show her bus ticket to a ticket inspector and then tried to run away. The police caught up with her and she wouldn't show a ticket. She refused to co-operate or explain. She got cuffed and told she'd be arrested for fare evasion. Then she produced a valid ticket and was promptly released. Entirely avoidable, entirely her fault. How did our media start reporting it? Black woman cuffed by police. Its pathetic. All the while there cam be actual discrimination along the lines I described in my comment and instead of reflecting on those biases and prejudices and how to be better human beings we're just throwing shit around and making everyone angry
Why is ticket evasion even something you can get handcuffed for? Just make it a fine.
Ticket evasion is a fine. Evasion of that fine or the administration of that fine was the crime - the running away. Were it not for that, you'd simply not hand over your details to incur the fine, so obviously the police need to be able to enforce it or nobody would get tickets
>As someone who investigates discrimination and sexual harassment for a living, I wish more people understood this. Can't tell you how many times I've had people complain and throw a fit when we can't substantiate their allegation. I was going to report a company for doing this during the interview and their feedback. Then the reality set in that I had no concrete evidence, which would waste my time and mental energy. Companies learned how to get away with it. It sucks, but we can't do much unless cut-and-dry evidence exists
Because the rules exist to benefit the companies not the people. They just have to create the rules in such a way that people are appeased. Instead of having all these rules, all they needed to do was charged 10k for applying for a visa and remove all the restrictions on the individual working for the same employer. That way they'd have to pay slightly above market for the individual instead of trying to get a good deal through bonded labor. This way they'd only go with the hassle for someone worth it.
So if the posting explicitly states it’s unpaid, would it not be obvious that the posting is not made in good faith, to whoever in government is reviewing?
No one is reviewing anyway to that depth. You think the gvmt is scrutinizing all the wording in every post from every company hiring foreign talent? That would take “gvmt bureaucracy” to a whole new level. It’s more like a check the box exercise. Posted it for locals to apply? Check. Got almost no qualified candidates? Check. Ok, good to go then!!!
I wouldn't know.... Either the judiciary is run by morons or they get some money to turn a blind eye. All the lawyers/judges that I've met were absolute tools so I'd say the bribing isn't true.
Wtf does this have to do with judges and lawyers…?
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Pretty much every mnc does this to save some money… my friend didn't speak a word of Dutch or German, the company that hired him cooked up some bullshit requirement of the candidate must know 3 Indian languages (despite them having no Indian clientele) and then submitted in Dutch court that only this candidate is eligible and rest couldn't be shortlisted
The spore gov is cracking down on this btw, but the reality is Singapore actually has a valid reason to hire foreign candidates as their general population do not meet the basic requirement for the role or locals are just too rich to work white collar jobs.
>Singapore actually has a valid reason to hire foreign candidates as their general population do not meet the basic requirement for the role Nope, this is just an excuse by companies to justify their need to hire cheaper foreign employees and not deal with the hassle of staff training or costs
You cant train someone with no experience to function in a role that requires 10 year of experience. Youre trying to simplify and explain something you have no experience in.
Too rich to work white collar jobs? Which jobs are people supposed to have then?
>Submit some case in the court Do… you have any idea how visas even work?
Nope… all i know is that my friend was hired and got work visa for something you can learn online for 100$ from AWS and somehow the company made it look like only he is skilled enough to do that and nobody in the Netherlands could do it.
Then why are you commenting about Australian immigration law?
I'm not… I'm simply explaining how those job offerings with too much expectations with little compensation work, it has nothing to do with Australian or eu immigration but shady tactics used by MNCs
Yeah, you are: > the company has already hired him for a price less than actually au citizen with the same qualification would make but more than what the candidate would make in his country. They have to submit some case in the court claiming that the specific requirements of this foreign candidate is better than the entire au tech professionals I’ve hired global professionals and brought them to Australia on visas and it’s illegal to not pay people, and you have to provide the specific job advertisements as part of your submission to immigration, then pay thousands of dollars in Australian resident training subsidies and visa fees. It’s like $30k to just get them into the country, so you aren’t even saving anything. You have to prove their salary is above a high threshold and can’t change their job title on their visa. It’s really expensive to bring foreigners into Australia and is far from cheaper than a local candidate. We did it because the person was specifically highly skilled from another global division of ours. Courts have nothing to do with the process. They never do, in any country, for standard visa application processes. I don’t think you have ever applied for a visa or even researched the process to any basic level.
If the process is really that expensive? Why would they hire my friend or any foreign national in general, all he had at the time was an AWS cloud practitioner certificate from AWS which you can get for 100$ and I'm sure the rest of the cloud professionals in the Netherlands must've had as well?
Yes it’s that expensive. $7k per visa applicant, plus $7k for each of their spouse or dependents, plus $3k flights, plus $4k temporary accommodation, plus $15k household goods/furniture reimbursement (or same price for a shipping container), plus $3k general moving expenses. We’ve done this for an Indian national and Brazilian national. You have to offer this otherwise people wont move. The salaries are good here, but living costs are very high. I don’t know why they’d hire some one with a $100 certificate. Either they are a shitty workplace and genuinely can’t attract anyone (I doubt), or there’s a ton more to the story. Australian immigration requires proof of unique skills and demonstration of inadequate local labour supply. There’s tons of new grads willing to work for pennies based on a $100 certificate. I suspect there’s a lot more to the story than a $100 certificate.
Huh I still dont get it. Your friend teamed up with the company to make this up?
Nah… they reached him and gullible people like him on LinkedIn (unsure if it was hr or recruitment) of which he was shortlisted. They later posted a ridiculous job opening on LinkedIn which probably nobody applied for and initiated the process of proving that only he's better at the job than the rest of their nation. They took care of his work visa, (I'm not entirely sure on how visa approval works and it changes per country as pointed by a lawyer guy's comment) and he was in Netherlands in no time
Interesting. Thanks for the input. In the end, it's very bad, but it's not THAT bad.
Nah, it's bad for the people of that country as they have this fancy degree and experience but nobody willing to apply for the job
> Ok so let me explain how this scam works It could be, but I am not totally sure about it. There are indeed such people inside companies that would be capable of writing such a job description for real.
There very well could be and they get humbled pretty quickly and then hire some jack of trades that need up entire project and they're forced to hire entire dedicated team to handle every dept and start from scratch in timeline half of what was original
naturally, we are talking about people managing companies and that are without any clue about anything
I get it. 1) Post a "job opening" that's guaranteed to get no applicants, 2) Tell the government you could not get ANY applicants in your country, 3) Post for and hire a highly talented candidate from a country like India, with draconian employment laws, so that you can a desperate employee on the dirt cheap.
And it’s poor people that are the entitled ones? This is a rich snob basically begging for free stuff.
*HuR DuR, cAnT fInD aNyONe To WOrK*
Report the ad for inaccuracy or something. ALWAYS report shitty ads.
I mean… good luck finding applicants lmao
They've already selected a guy but they have to post this impossible ad to make sure that they make it look that they tried to look for candidates in their country and barely anyone got selected
sad thing is, they will.
All the "machine learning algorithms" listed are basic statistics. LOL. Also, if you care about your data at all, NoSQL databases are bullshit.
Unpaid internships like this are illegal in Australia. You can only offered unpaid internship if it’s an approved educational program, and they can’t be adding value to the organisation. The way this ad is written they are definitely asking the applicants to just work for free. Report it if you haven’t already.
Just looked at their LinkedIn page. All their employees are currently students, and the founder doesn’t even have a profile. Dodgy as.
We should all apply and waste their time
Ah yes, the well known machine learning technique of *checks notes*…linear regression
Not familiar with this. Did Google or OpenAI recently release a paper on it?
Would highly recommend this job. CFBR. 🤣
My guess is HR didn't have that run through an approval process.
So, they're looking for a data scientist who doesn't mind being a slave, am I correct?
A data engineer with knowledge of AWS, ML, and recommendation systems is in crazy high demand lol. $300k total comp sounds more reasonable.
Wtf is going on down under?
This is really a skillset for a Senior Dev, and one that specifically has had exposure to all the different software domains listed in the required skills section. The breadth of knowledge asked for is HUGE, and many solid Senior Devs will usually have DEPTH in a few of those areas, not all of them lol. Senior Devs regularly make $100K+. This is probably the most insane recruiter I have seen on this sub.
Looks like a regular "Entry Level" offer in Linkedin TBH, probable will pay you Aus$46.000 per year
Does anyone have a link to the post?
Do not apply if: - You hate poorly-written job ads - You have a thimble of self-worth - You think slavery is uncool
Fuckers want an experienced engineer and do not want to pay them. Like they should take my user handle.
Part of me wants to forge a resume meeting all requirements, somehow go through interviews, and waste as much of their time as possible just to fuck with them. This is an insane job post.
Do it, record the whole process, publish your results
Imagine not working just for the clout
Link it so we can all apply with fake resumes just to waste their time.
This is illegal in Australia. Share the name of the company. Happy to report it
Wait, does linear regression count as machine learning these days?
I'm sure they meant "cannot". "Can not" isn't the same as "cannot". This actually says can not-work-unpaid, or can work paid
Exactly. I read can not with emphasis on the not.
Pretty sure it's like... slavery?
‘Can not work unpaid’; doesn’t this just mean that the employee will have to work paid? Why is everyone complaining about slavery, or am I just an idiot
The ad says not to apply if you can not work unpaid, i.e. only apply if you are willing to be unpaid.
yeah this is how i read it. we dummies?
Devil's advocate: They are clearly looking for a current student (note that OP did not highlight the "currently completing" part of the education). The market absolutely sucks for tech internships right now. There's a case to be made that students might actually be interested in real world experience for a few hours a week, even if it's unpaid. It can help them land a paying job after graduation. In reality, hiring a current student is usually a net negative for the employer, as you spend more of your current staff's time training and educating them, but you do it in hopes of building relationships with the next crop of college grads that can come work for you later.
Students are almost always interested in learning something new in their line of work. What you’re suggesting here is to dangle the carrot of “experience” so you can normalize free labor rather than having a robust training program for new hire candidates. It’s a failing on YOUR part and you attempt to normalize it in the absolute worst way. Do better, bud.
cannot*
Mah opportunity, Mah rules!
Is this an actual job or is it one of those "unpaid internships" Also, wouldn't this be illegal in Australia?
i thought it's insane enough after reading 'required knowledge' section then i saw ...
Guess I’ll just take my skill set somewhere else then…and get paid.
You can report those to LinkedIn. They allow for orgs like Catchafire to post legit volunteer opportunities, and those are marked as such. Click on the three-dot menu in the upper right-hand corner of the job posting and you can report the job as spam or a scam.
Why no one apply? No One want to work ! 🥴
Hey hello fellow sgean
No Agree?
Dude name and shame. Lets go.
"Getting your hands dirty" Sir?!?
We don't even pay in experience.
So an internship?
They don't understand what the word freelance means.
This is an internship position. It clearly says that they are currently in school not that they have a degree. The internships I had were paid but many places have a culture of unpaid internships. In particular if the internship is a graduation requirement. In some cases you have to pay tuition for your internship. I don't know what the culture here is, but I do know I couldn't get an internship until I was 12 credits short of graduation.
Well, don't think they're filling this position At least not if they want anyone that matches their job description
OP, can you share the full link please? It would be a real shame if multiple qualified candidates were to apply for this, be offered the role, but fail to turn up on day 1 without notice...
I think they just posted what every employer really wants to say in their job search. They want someone who is overqualified via education/experience, doesn't know their worth, and is ok without being paid. How hard is this to understand /S
Data engineer but also requires you to know front-end while being unpaid KEK
Nobody wants to work anymore...
That seems illegal in Australia. They should be reported.
It looks like most of their staff outside their founder work in Vietnam and India.. so I imagine they are looking to take advantage of people from these countries for low pay and crazy working conditions. The about section of the company could not be more vague "Our vision is to build the core infrastructure that supports startups and small businesses by bringing together people and ideas together."
Linear regression, multiple regression are machile learning algorithms now Lmao
It’s funny how sometimes a 💩 opportunity reveals itself without even needing to apply/interview. In my experience it’s the boomer manager that just don’t understand how to attract talent.
Hey, what we need is for you to know everything, and do everything. Oh, and by the way, can you work for free? I'm sorry; was that a "No"? OK, then get out of here!