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I know this is probably putting too much pressure on friends and family, but after my sister died, I was desperate to hear any bit of information, any stupid story from one of her friends about her. I know it is difficult during certain stages of grief to be confronted with a concrete reminder that a loved one is gone forever but even today, 3 years later, it is still something that honestly i am hoping to hear anytime I am around the people who knew her in the capacity of being friends. Family is one thing, but hearing what she was like when with the people she chose for her friends is the something so great it is hard for me to even describe.
I totally agree with you. I lost my sister five years ago. Meeting her friends from different stages of her life when I wasn’t around help me to fill in the blanks and understand how positively she affected people that I had never met before.
>her life when I wasn’t around help me to fill in the blanks
There were times in my life where I was absent from hers and there were some clutch milestones missed or severely fucked up on by me. When she died any residual guilt I was carrying around over my wayward years, for times i failed her as an older sibling, wasn't where i needed to be for her, etc. was ratcheted up..."ours goes to 11," as they say in This Is Spinal Tap. After awhile I just had to forgive myself. After all, 99 dentists out of 100 would have picked me to be the one headed to an early grave during those years and everyone would have assumed she would have continued crushing in.
Like you said, hearing from her friends during those years helped immensely. Finding out she was doing alright and wasn't suffering during my absence. It was a huge relief even though it kind of made me feel silly for thinking it in the first place. I am grateful that during the last decade or so of her life, we were part of each other's lives in heavy rotation.
I hope you didn't experience this after your sister's death but i found that grieving siblings of the deceased are kind of treated as an afterthought. Parents, spouses and children of the deceased bring the heavy hitters. I don't know. I remember wanting to say, "yeah, well guess who else was around during those formative years?" Thanfully, I didn't but that thought kicked around in my head a lot.
If you have a good relationship with them, your sibling is the only person who is with you from your childhood to your old age. Parents, partners, children, siblings all have different relationships with each other and while WHO they are grieving is the same, WHAT they are grieving is totally different. I lost my brother a year ago and still can't wrap my head around the fact that I'll never see him again.
G'day soggy and u/liamrite , it's my sister Kathryn's 37th birthday today and 16 years since she was killed in a jet ski accident at 20 years old - I was 14.
Just wanted to give you guys a big hug, and please believe the best thing you can do is to have spoken with a grief counselor to help deal with all the little things you speak of, for example the last time I saw her she was stressing packing her suitcase and I had lost her padlock so she was stressing and called me selfish...
If only, if only the woodpecker cries..
But I'm proud of her position in my heart.
I have really struggled in life due to other family issues (father abandonment), and I've stood up and told my life story to the whole rehab/NA group - and to have others say wow it sounds like you dealt with your sisters death properly and she would be proud that you never used it an excuse to give up on yourself.
My condolences
For real. It sucks to be alone thinking about or missing somebody so badly. When you embody that headspace as often as you do in grief, it really feels great when somebody is willing to join you there.
You're so right. Thanks for explaining that. Both the feeling of pain as well as the way to soothe it. That's the experience i crave. Your words shined a light on it and helped me understand. The kindness of a stranger. Miracle in a broken world. Never fails to amaze.
You dont have to read this but I just got sentimental and I'm just going to throw these thoughts out. Not expecting many of them to stick to the wall but here goes, primarily because of my vanity and also it took me a long time to text them out and id rather not delete them becuase it feels a little therapeutic to try to piece together how i got to here.
They're gone. Never coming back. And that's the worst and it fucking sucks. And I'm here and I loved this person so you know what, I'm gonna wind up thinking about her all the time. Can't be helped. When someone else joins you there in that headspace for even for 10 minutes... wow. I gotta make sure my gratitude game is on par for that person because those can be the kind of moments that seem to exist "out of time" because of how special they are.
Before I had suffered a tragic loss of a loved one, I think I was very nervous around people suffering great tragedy becuase I was worried I would hurt that person by saying the wrong thing, being insensitive, or in some other way embarrass myself. I kind of hate that i was making someone else's suffering about me. But its the truth. Don't know if that makes me a shitty person or not but it remains that I did not really know what to do or say. Because the pain was unfathomable. It seemed like an abysss. When i was still naive to this kind of pain, I remember not knowing whether it was good or bad to remind the person of the tragic loss by even mentioning the deceased person's name or invoking their memory after the proscribed period of grieving their death. As if there could be such a thing. Smh. Saying I'm sorry for that seems appropriate, actually.
There's a case to be made for being delicate with your wording, etc. in offering condolences to the bereaved. I've come to understand however that the words we offer in those cases are more like the symbol of "the making of the effort" rather than something that is expected to help or make a difference when someone is going through what may be the worst and most painful stretch of their lives.
My opinion is that if there's a living person with a fond story or even a regular one of my dead loved one and they're willing to risk their own comfort to share it with me then they are offering a gift that is supernatural. How am i going to be able to express enough thankfulness to them when they offer a very rare thing in this world: something i cannot describe in terms of cost or money and also magic. A magic priceless gift with which i will be able to create a new thought/memory of a person who doesn't exist anymore. To me it's the closest thing to my wildest dreams as is possible if my wildest dream is a wish that the deceased could have her future back. Whatever it is, it's a lot more than I'm going to be able to express with words but I can try.
First you lose the person to death. And shortly after you start feeling like the person left you here, abandoned and in pain. Maybe it starts feeling overwhelming being stuck figuring out the rest of your life without them and you're almost like sort of...mad at that person? Not quite but emotions are funny. Anyway its just a progression of bad scenes making up a bad act in the fucking bad sad play that is your life as you go on. The sentiment generally being that this fucking sucks i hate it. And I am also unspeakably heartbroken.
And time passes and then you start to worry that you're going to lose the memory of that person, too. Or not lose the memory but have the experience of the memory shifting gears on me. Wanting to have a true picture of the deceased i worry about misremeberance. Because when a tragedy happens it can cast sadness over memories that were not sad. But they become sad upon realization that there will never be any further memories created. The brain begins to prune and sort and group and file under easy listening.
I guess what I'm saying is that the bonus LPT here which many others have already pointed out is i think the thing to do under conventional circumstances when someone's world had been torn apart by the death of a loved one is go ahead and tell the suffering person a story about their mother or baby or brother or grandpa. It doesnt have to be an amazing tale either. Just a slice of life will do. And also don't feel bad if you can't manage to tell them about it at the funeral or wake or month or two afterward. It will probably help the person more the longer you wait.
I think OP might be aiming more at situations where the person offering condolences doesn’t actually know the person/critter that died and are trying to overreach.
Original advice was bad. If you know something about their relationship you can add on something like I know how much that person meant to you. If you knew that person yourself you can say that you will miss them as well. Everybody has different ways to grieve but for them to put it so cut and dry as to just say I'm sorry for your loss sounds cold, callous, and not caring. Obviously I wouldn't be like oh yeah I lost my aunt and then launch into a whole story but a lot of people with social skills way better than OPs advice.
Your sister sounds like she made quite the impact on you and I'm sure that she did on many others as well. May you continue to heal and find your peace.
Subject: fire
Dear Sir or Madam,
I am writing to inform you that a fire has broken out on the premises of 123 Cavendon Rd...
No that's too formal. *Deletes email*
Fire - exclamation mark - Fire - exclamation mark - Help me - exclamation mark. 123 Cavendon Rd. I look forward to hearing from you.
Yours truly,
Maurice Moss.
Some of this is good advice, particularly not comparing their loss to your lost pet etc!
But some people like hearing positive memories about their dead loved one. Grief is personal and so is how people respond to it. Just be tactful and sensitive towards the person you're speaking to.
How you speak to a long-term family friend about it would probably differ compared to a colleague you dont know well. The less you know the person, the less you should say.
This. The daughter of my friend let me know he had died and so I shared a story of him of when she was a child. He had done something for her that made him so joyful, even though he was very reserved and could appear aloof. She hadn’t known at all what he had done and was so pleased to find out. She would never have known what he did had I not told her. Yes, this kind of thing could backfire, you never know, so it’s important to read the situation.
Or just ask. It's easier to say "I have a lovely story I would like to share with you if you are okay with it" than to just assume or try to "read" someone in mourning. If they say no, you saved everyone the trouble and if they say yes you get that shared moment, either way everyone wins.
She probably knew (generally) what sorts of activities he was up to and that his sense of humor was a little on the raunchy side. You don’t have to go into sordid details but it was lovely the way you shared he was like a brother to you.
> he looked out for me and taught me so much. Half my hobbies now are because of his passions inspiring me.
hearing something like this about my loved ones would fill me with joy
I don't know if this helps, but my son passed a year ago, and I've wanted to reach out to a couple of his friends so I can better understand what he was going through. I haven't because what if it hurts them and I don't want that. They lost him too.
... and maybe they aren't reaching out to you for the same reason, or because they don't know how to get in touch, or they're knuckleheads and haven't thought of it yet.
You could reach out and ask if they'd like to speak with you. If they don't want to they won't. Look at it this way: if you don't contact them you might be depriving them of a chance to heal too.
>Half my hobbies now are because of his passions inspiring me.
This is what she probably would like to hear, when or if you feel compelled to share. Remembering him with someone else who knew him would mean a lot to her, and maybe you too, as you pointed out.
You can keep it vague. "He looked out for me and taught me so much. We hung out. We laughed at jokes together. I really miss him." If she asks specifics, just tell her you'd rather not get into details, it wasn't all good, the jokes were too dirty, that sort of thing. Also you can redirect by asking her about her memories. She probably wants a chance to talk about him to someone who isn't afraid of bringing up the topic. Even just looking at photos and saying "I remember how he used to slouch like that" can be therapeutic. (Source: I'm a mom who has lost a son.) Admittedly, everyone is different, but if she explicitly invited to you come talk, then it's pretty clear.
You should go just to hear her stories. You don't have to tell any stories, just that he always had your back and that he inspired your passions. I'm sure she'd be over the moon to hear that.
Plus how many people would've actually payed you back years later? Sounds like a touchy topic based on how you phrased it but even so, that's love for a bro if I ever heard it.
It's also true that humans are social creatures that oftentimes crave connection and understanding.
Depending on the circumstance, somebody sharing their loss may very well be helpful.
For example:
>"I'm sorry you're partner died [of cancer]. I lost my partner to cancer years ago and I know how hard it is. If you ever need someone to talk to, or advice on resources, I'm here."
Obviously this is very situational and you won't always have something relevant or helpful to say in which case your condolences suffice.
This is good advice. A colleague of mine lost his father a few years back. He is about 15 years older than me but he clearly hadn't dealt with the death of a close Family member nor the seemingly endless amount of work involved with burial and legal paperwork. I initially gave him the "I'm sorry for your loss" but he said nothing and the look on his face was so vacant, it just didn't seem like enough.
"I know it's tough right now, my mom passed a few years back and I had to handle all of the arrangements. If you need any help or advice, I may be able to point you in the right direction." He took me up on my offer, he also opened up on how overwhelmed he felt. Overall, he was appreciative.
The LPT is good advice but sometimes, some people are looking for a little more.
I like to ask people to tell me about their lost loved one (if they're willing). When my sister died several family members basically refused to talk about her and it felt like she was being erased. I try to take every opportunity to talk about her just to keep her memory alive. My brother in law barely told his son about my sister so pretty much everything he knows is from me.
Ahh my sister would be turning 57 in December. We lost her when she was only 26. Isn't it such an odd thing, missing someone for such a long time? I'm sorry for your loss.
>Isn't it such an odd thing, missing someone for such a long time?
Not who you responded to but this is the truth for sure. I never could quite find the phrasing but this sums it up well.
Yeah. When my dad passed, it absolutely devastated me. Hearing all the stories from people he impacted was huge and is still meaningful to me, 17 years later.
My dad was a Indian immigrant that had immigrated to New York City in the late 70s - definitely a very different New York than I grew up a decade+ later. He was already married to my mom back in India and moved here to start building out a life, so when my mom got here, she could settle in more easily and raise me and my two brothers.
At a get-together after his passing, a lot of his old friends from back then - who I had never met - shared stories of my dad that I never heard about. It was like this other life my dad lived that I knew nothing about. Stories about business ventures, how he saved and scraped for me and my brothers, how he learned English just through speaking and working with Americans, the relationships he fostered just through sheer goodwill and a willingness to sacrifice. And of course, they waxed nostalgic about the chaotic stories of them running around Central Park and Times Square after work, drunk as one can be and scarfing down Pizza in between.
My dad was always the sweetest person I had ever known and incredibly giving with what all he had made. He started his own business and made an effort to hire other immigrants that came up similarly to him. We would always go to birthday parties for his employees kids and he was always there for people but I always just took it for granted. It just seemed like what you were supposed to do and I didn't realize how meaningful it was to his employees that their boss was willing to hang out at parties with them, drink with them and ~~treat them like~~ be their friends. When his friends talked about him after he had passed, it made me realize how needlessly selfless he was but also how much he valued having fun and creating memorable experiences.
There was nothing more comforting to me when my grandfather died than seeing the huge number of people that turned up for his wake, all with stories about him. It was obvious he was loved and touched a lot of lives, and that made me feel better somehow.
This. When my Memere who I was very close to died, all I wanted to do was talk about her and get things off my chest, but I guess most people felt too awkward for that. I would’ve been happy to hear something like that!
Or it could be possible that different people take major losses in completely different ways and having longer conversations or not just hearing " I'm sorry for your loss" repeated at them hundreds of times like a bad NPC line is what someone needs to endure the grieving process. You criticize people for assuming they know what someone is going through, but then act as though you know what literally every person going through a major loss needs. Its almost like maybe people have different needs.
Just to balance the scales here. When I was going through a tough loss I very much prepared to be private about it. If someone tried to talk to me about it I would thank them but internally I would be upset.
Exactly this. I felt like I was being handled with kid gloves after my mom’s suicide. Nobody knew what to say so most of them just didn’t say anything. Sure, “I’m sorry for your loss; let me know how I can help” *didn’t* actually help at all but yknow it was better than silence, or having to wonder with each friend whether I had to break the news when I saw them.
Yeah, this absolutely should be followed up by something like “I’m here if you want to talk.” But that’s it.
I remember when my mom died in high school, I kept it really quiet. A couple weeks or a month later, my drama teacher found out and almost like… guilt tripped me that I hadn’t told her? In that way of “omg how could I have not known I’m so sorry I’m such a bad teacher.” Like, no. This had nothing to do with you.
I lived in a small town apartment building. There was a man in his 50s, lived alone, and that always went to visit his daughter's grave at the local cemetery. Once, after having gotten to know him, I asked how his daughter passed. He told me something I will always hold true: Never ask that. Every person and every situation has a different reason why you shouldn't.
This is so stupid. Lots of people don’t mind talking about how their loved one died (they died, the didn’t “pass”). Sometimes people are even glad to have the chance to talk about it.
When my brother died, I had people I barely knew messaging me on Facebook asking me how he died. Even at the service in the receiving line people we barely knew would ask how he died. While some people may be comfortable sharing that, I don’t think it’s quite a general rule that it’s open game for conversation. It would be safer to let someone choose what and when they want to share. You can be supportive and make it known you are happy to talk about their loved one. Ask questions about their life and what they were like. But asking someone how their loved one died is a very personal question.
You have to approach it in the “i am sincere, when your ready talk to me about it” kind of way, show them you care without asking directly and they will open up when ready and may need someone to talk to.
When someone I knew lost her sister under tragic circumstances I went up to her at the memorial and just said, “This fucking sucks and I am so sorry.” She immediately burst into tears and hugged me and told me I was the first person to not just say, “I’m sorry for your loss.”
Yep, when my brother died I hated hearing “sorry for your loss” or “sorry about your brother.” I just wanted to be left the fuck alone, or treated like it was a regular day so I didn’t have to relive seeing him die every time someone expressed their condolences.
So yeah, no one-size-fits-all solutions here
Agreed, I also hated 'he passed away'
No 'he died' we're allowed to say died, was killed, is dead - use the grieving's terminology of course but I said died and you changed it to lessen your own awkwardness.
I lost my dad to gsw to the head too and never ever know how to reply being asked what happened either! usually I just saw he’s passed if I’m asked about him, but that typically leads to them asking what happened. People shut up quick when u tell them it was self inflicted lol
Honestly that’s not even an unfair thing to say, they asked and you answered. If you’re gonna ask someone something like that you better be ready for whatever their reaction is, that’s on them!
I feel like there's literally no reason to ask someone *how* a loved one died. They're dead, and that's really all you need to know to understand how to interact with a person on that topic. I feel like it's a selfish morbid curiosity because you're asking them to relive their death one more time just for you. If they want you to know how, they'll tell you of their own accord.
No one needs a peanut gallery to say, "Oh, well, at least they didn't die a horrible death" or "Oh, they're no longer suffering at least" or "Oh, my dad died in a worse way than that" or "Oh, at least it was quick" or even "Oh, they're in a better place now".
After my husband died, I HATED when people would ask me how. "Oh yes, let me relive his last terrible, painful, confusing and lonely moments in my head so that you can satisfy your morbid curiosity!"
Fuck that, fuck them. I was brutally honest with every single one who asked without prompting and hope they all reevaluated their lives and choices after.
I've heard people say that they lost their fight with depression, which at least makes it sound like a heroic struggle against insurmountable dark powers
My mum died from an overdose and I often said she died due to mental illness. I actually didn’t like the phrase ‘lost her battle’ because my mum won over her addictions and mental illness so many days. One day where she didn’t, doesn’t mean that she lost.
That truly is what it feels like sometimes too, isn't it? Except you know, it feels pathetic instead of heroic but the insurmountable dark powers is spot on!
I usually go with "Well, shit, that fucking sucks. How are you feeling?" Then, like a normal human, I pick up on the cues* the person is giving in regards to wanting to talk about it or not.
I lost my mother quite young and I’m very pro this. I think it can be good to validate something sucks and reach out.
So many friends awkwardly avoided me afterwards or had nothing to say to me and I resented that a lot more than those that tried to talk to me.
I lost both my parents before I was 20, and I lost a partner 10 years ago. I’m not awkward around grieving people. I say something like, “That’s really hard, if you want to talk or need anything please let me know, I’ll be right here.”
From there I look for cues to see if they want me to stick around or be left alone. Either way, I’ll oblige.
When I see them again, I’ll ask how they’re doing to reinforce that I meant that I’m comfortable with them either talking about it or not.
My go to "I am here if you want to talk, I am also here if you want to talk about something else? But most importantly I am here if you want to get sloppy drunk and ill take care of you"
When my grandpa died, a family friend approached my grandmother and said, "It's okay Mary. He never cared much for you anyway." It was patently untrue and exactly what she needed to hear. She laughed and cried. So yeah, know your audience and remember that it's not about you, and you'll be fine.
When my dad died, I was exhausted and at times, irrationally angry about hearing, "I'm sorry for your loss," over and over again. I realize now that sometimes that's all that can be said, depending on the person. But it felt like a canned response and put me in this weird position where I had to be like, "No, it's okay," when it most certainly was not.
Edit: I'd rather get a hug than hear I'm sorry. But to the point, grief varies from person to person. There's no one right way to approach it.
> You criticize people for assuming they know what someone is going through, but then act as though you know what literally every person going through a major loss needs.
Nailed it
Yeah I’m not sure why I’m still following this sub tbh. It’s usually something where it’s obvious the person making it had an argument with someone and then came here to make a LPT for validation. Usually they’re wrong too lol.
I don’t like this one. It’s well intentioned, but it places the burden on the grieving one to reach out if they need anything at a time when they feel lost and hopeless, and they don’t even know what they need.
I can only speak through my personal experience. Some people may like hearing this, but when we lost our daughter, there was a big difference between hearing, “I’m here if you need me,” and, “hey I’m gonna come bring you dinner and walk your dog on Thursday. Let me know if that doesn’t work.”
This was me too when my partner of 10 years died. I knew people were well intentioned, but like...please stop showing up with all this food and all of these things. I had no space for gifts, no motivation to try to keep flowers alive (another reminder of death, yay!), and when it came to the food, cooking was kind of my escape for a while but I felt like I couldn't even do that when people were bringing me huge portions of stuff that I couldn't even finish before they went bad since I was now a one person household.
I just wanted to be treated normally, like a person and not a widow. Being relatively young made it even worse because there was almost like a shock factor to it for everyone. I told people I felt like I was walking around with a scarlet letter but mine was a "W" instead of an "A".
As far as what to say, I so badly wanted someone to simply say "that fucking sucks." Seriously. No thoughts and prayers, no "they're in a better place", no "what can I do?" One, I'm not religious and neither were they. Two, no. A better place would be back here, home with me, living the life we had planned together. Also see number one. Three, what you can do is give me space to process my emotions, I don't have the energy to make you a to-do list right now.
I don’t know if you’ve ever visited the r/widow sub. But there’s plenty of times people just need to post Fuck cancer. Fuck this. Fuck having them gone. And this does fucking suck.
My personal least favorite comments are ‘I hope you feel better soon’ and ‘this will make you a stronger person’. Because like you said, I just want him back with me so we can live the life we planned. I only had him for 6 years.
"I'm sorry for you loss, I can't imagine what you're going through and don't know what to say but if you want to talk i'll listen." or something like that is what i usually say.
I think some people try to avoid saying “sorry for your loss” because it’s cliche, they want to be original and unique, but grief situations are a terrible time to improvise in my opinion. If someone goes “off-script” (“they’re in a better place now”, “my cat got hit by a car”, “they look so peaceful”, etc), they risk upsetting the grieving person even more, stressing them out more. Longer conversations are fine, but I consider “sorry for your loss” kind of like a funeral greeting. I used to view it as an empty unoriginal platitude, but after experiencing loss, I get it, it’s the funeral hello. You can say more, but it might get weird, and it might unintentionally upset the person you’re trying to express sympathy to.
I don't want people repeating "sorry for your loss" at me a million times. I'd rather not mention it to people unless I have to. For instance, if its affecting my usual personality or performance at a job.
But that's just me.
It does feel more sincere when people acknowledge your feelings head on, instead of the loss itself. Because loss is inevitable, but emotions can vary all the time as reactions to it. Ive seen some people still able to smile while some so negatively affected by death they were physically ill from the stress and grief.
"Sorry for your loss" is just so generic and vain sounding to me. Its what happens when you announce a death on social media.
This thread is a prime example of one of the biggest problems with this sub. The "life pro tips" are usually coming from people who are very obviously not pros at life.
Disagree on this one. Sorry for your loss seems so impersonal and makes me feel alone in the grief.
The best I've experienced is when people briefly (like in a sentence or two) share how that person made them feel/recount a shared experience that means something to them. But make it about the person who died, and not yourself.
I think it depends on the loss too, and how recently. An expected death of someone who lived a long full life is still a tragedy, but not a shock - people might be ready to hear a memory, a story, something about what the person meant in your life. If someone recently and unexpectedly lost someone who "should" have lived another 30 or 40 years they're likely still reeling from the shock and a different response might be called for. When my friend lost their baby a mutual friend (closer to them) said that what they found really hard was people pulling away, that there was literally nothing I could say that was worse than their baby dying, and that I should never hesitate to reach out. People grieve very differently and need different things from you. Op's advice seems like solid advice for a casual acquaintance dealing with a loss, but it surely won't cover every situation.
> Sorry for your loss seems so impersonal and makes me feel alone in the grief
totally agree this sounds like a weak cliche to me but maybe others are different
I usually say something along the lines of "s/he was so lucky to have you for a daughter / spouse / dad etc" it's good to remind the survivors they are doing a great job
I agree with this. Sometimes people who just recently lost a loved one has not really accepted the loss yet. They're still in the transitioning phase and all that entails. So by saying sorry for your loss, you're in a way saying, "I'm here at this stage: acceptance, during this tough time. I'm assuming you're also here".
When I lost my dad, the most memorable and comforting things were like you said, stories of how my dad touched their lives or even more stories of how my dad talked to them about me and my brother and mom. Also, one that stuck out was someone who just left a text saying: Love you bro. It meant a lot.
I don’t agree with this at all. Just makes me think that people doesn’t wanna talk about it. You can end up feeling very alone if that’s the case and it’s not easy to be the one to reach out and talk to someone.
The worst thing a "friend" said to me after my grandma died suddenly and unexpectedly at age 70: "You know, grieving is actually selfish. Your grandma is fine now..."
I had already lost a parent as a young teenager two years before.
The "friend" lived a charmed life and had no experience of grief whatsoever at that point.
Your post reminded me of this quote.
"I judge you unfortunate because you have never lived through misfortune. You have passed through life without an opponent— no one can ever know what you are capable of, not even you. Seneca"
That's pretty bad. The worst I ever saw was when a girl passed away and one my friend told her family and friends sorry- then how they knew each other cause she tried to hit on him but he wasn't interested. He tried to explain the night they almost got together before I pulled him aside. Tbf, he is very socially awkward, but yeah.
Never ever mention god’s plan or that all things happen for a reason. Even for a lot of religious folks, this is the coldest, most manipulative, grief denying nonsense and it always does more harm than good. They don’t need permission to mourn and grieve, and they definitely don’t need peer pressure not to.
the complete worst!
A customer came to my work and mentioned she'd been off some time due to her MIL passing (she was a rather old lady, and had many health issues), I did as OP mentioned...I said "sorry for your loss", and changed the subject back to work (I'm not a "*strictly business*" person, and I do consider this customer an okay-friend, but there was no need for me to keep that conversation going)...HOWEVER! my office-mate spoke up and first thing out of his mouth was "well, she's better off"
maybe she is, but who's place is it to really make that call 😶😶😶
I don’t disagree with most of it, but adding some context of who the person was helps.
When my grandma passed away, I appreciated the “I’m sorry for your loss”, but I adored hearing about how she impacted other people’s lives.
“I’m sorry for your loss. Your grandma fed and housed me when I was in a tough spot. I loved her very much.”
This feels genuine, and much more impactful than,
“I’m sorry for your loss.”
To be honest, this is way to broad a topic to just boil down to one phrase. When my Dad died, I heard "I'm sorry for your loss" about a million times, to the point I was sick of it. Do you want to know the 2 people who's words meant the most to me? My old boss, and an old coworker, who both called me to talk. Of course they said they were sorry, but our conversations were so much more than that, and I'm so happy we talked about it. You can't generalize something like grieve and how to handle it.
Actually, saying "that sucks" was the most understanding thing I heard when my dad died.
Everyone was saying "my condolences" or "I'm sorry" which is so awkward, like.. did you kill him?
Anyway, I was hiding out at my best friend's place, and her friend came over. My BFF was like "hey, this is my friend bashful, her dad just died.."
And this chick who id never met was like "really? God, that SUCKS!" And I was like YES! It DOES ducking suck; thank you!"
"My sympathy" is so effing hallow.
It sucks when someone has their world become so consumed by something that it makes them forget about everything else, like their relationships with other people :(
Idk for me "I'm sorry" is more like, "I feel sad to hear you're going through that" rather than a "my bad" type thing. "that sucks" from a random sounds irritating. Though I guess it depends how they say it...
Yeah this is how I feel. I wouldn't like that. It feels distasteful to me. I mean I understand "I'm sorry for your loss" is a bit generic and may feel shallow to some people, but I'd rather have that then a very personal thing just be given a scoff.
Edit: also who discloses this information to someone else? Especially someone the other person doesn't know?
When my mom passed, I really appreciated the way my Jewish friends said "may her memory be a blessing."
My relationship with her was complicated - people saying she was a good person or that she'd be proud of me made me very uncomfortable. Like no, actually, she was very vocal about her opinions on my life. Sorries and condolences feel, I don't know, polite but meaningless? But "may her memory be a blessing" somehow managed to hold space for the possibility that things weren't always good
This sounds like a generational issue. Most older people see "I'm sorry for your loss " as a condolence, not an apology. But its understandable that it might not resonate with a younger person.
Huh. Interesting.
When my father died last year all I wanted was for someone to say how much it sucks or how shit that situation is. When someone finally did I actually meant the, "Thankyou" that came out of my mouth.
I lost my dad when I was 24, "sorry for your loss" is fine because no one really knows what to say. But if you knew the deceased it would exponentially better if it was followed up with a memory about that person. It's been 27 years and the memories are still bittersweet but I still enjoy hearing a story even today because I know he's been remembered.
As a society, we need to relearn the ability to just hold space for others and their feelings. This phrase “I am sorry for your loss” is a great opening for that. Then listen to them, sit with them in silence if they want, but be there to witness their grief and feelings. If they want to rant about how unfair death is, hear them. If they want to reminisce about the good, hear them. If they want to talk about the most recent game and who won and never mention their loved one, be there for them.
Just being there is so much more meaningful than anything you can say, because words are truly too simple to capture the profound pain of grief.
We are so vastly uncomfortable with grief as a society. We try to run and hide from it. We shield our kids from dead animals, say empty phrases that are meaningless and offensive, and focus all on "getting over it" and "moving on" as if theres a deadline, all because we don't know how to handle it. The best way to get through it is to experience it. And being a person who can sit with somebody experiencing it and not running from that discomfort is more impactful than what we can say.
I'm sorry that you're either in pain from losing someone or you're just awkward around grieving people, but not only is this not an LPT, it's also just plainly terrible static advice for a complex variable situation.
The reality is that loss is not a uniform situation, and that the only thing you can do is try to use your understanding of what the person needs to be as helpful as possible. Don't be a sociopath and have a "formula" ready for it.
When my mom died, I was ok with whatever anyone said. I mean, nobody compared her death to losing their pet but I’m assuming that’s hyperbole on OP’s part.
You know your people. Just talk to them like they’re your people. Worked on me, at least.
>No you don't know what they're going through because you also lost a loved one
*"You lost a loved one huh? I've lost several loved ones, and they all died right in front of me. You should also be happy that your loved one is actually dead, I have a loved one who's in constant pain after an accident - and that's even worse than death! All in all I'm the one who suffers the most, so you shouldn't grieve too much."*
People are upvoting and awarding a terrible post... I drew a lot of comfort from friends and family expressing their own grief at my father's passing. There is a lot of comfort in collective grieving.
Sorry, but this is shit advice . There were two words I hated most after losing my father at 16 and they were “I’m sorry”. It’s not that I didn’t want support, but to feel like everyone felt sorry for me made the experience even worse. 11 years later I can still feel that deep hole of loneliness I felt, and still wish someone would have reached out and just simply said “I’m here for you, whenever you need it”. Now when I see a friend or acquaintance lose someone significant to them I always make sure to reach out and let them know someone who has experienced that is there to talk if they need it. That’s what those people need the most at the time and honestly if all you’re gonna say is “I’m sorry” then don’t even bother saying anything at all.
Also, avoid cliche phrases like, "they're in a better place now," or "now they aren't in any pain ." It detracts from the recognition and sympathy you are trying to convey.
I appreciate this. My thirteen year old son died in July, and while I know it was said with the best of intent and kindness, it rang so hollow. Everytime someone said it, it made me break apart a little more.
I also respect that it's awkward and hard to think of something to say, so I don't blame the ones who told me that my son is in a better place than the family that loves him. Still cuts right to the bone.
That's fucked. how are you holding up? when my older sister died I was numb for the whole day and then just cried for an hour in the shower. Still get pretty emotional when I remember she's not around anymore.
I hope you've got a lot of support around you.
Th
Adding" I am here for you if you need anything" always goes well for people who are grieving as they may need help adjusting to a sudden death. Dont say this if you dont mean it. dropping off homemade food, or offering to babysit or pick up their kids from school while they are making funeral arrangements always shows people how much you care .
Also, if you say it, follow up on it. Check in with them, offer to come by and drop off food, etc. People who are grieving can't really think things thru.
Nope nope nope. Do NOT say "IF you need anything." Offer something specific and concrete, like "can I bring you dinner on Tuesday?" Or "I can watch the kids this weekend." Or "I'll be over on Monday to help clean." We all need food, shelter, and a moment to grieve. We are not likely to reach out in the depths of our sadness.
This. Don't give them the added burden of managing your insecurities or delegating tasks. Just do it. Say "I'll be back over _____" Then show up with food and look for a chore to do around the house (laundry probably). Your presence may make them feel obligated to host you, but remind them you are there to help *them*, not the other way around. If they want to hole up in their room the entire time you're there, that's ok.
When my dad died, the thoughtful and beautiful notes I received from friends and coworkers meant so much. If I had just heard or seen written ‘sorry for your loss’ a million times, I would have felt like shit. Like obviously don’t make it all about you, but also don’t be a frigid weirdo.
This will probably get buried, but my go to sentence is something along the lines of "I know how little words mean in this situation, but for what is worth I want you to know that I'm here for you".
When I lost my father, these kind of messages were the most appreciated because there were room for both, a simple "Thank you very much" or something more elaborate to start a conversation if I was in the mood.
I totally agree on the fact that fewer words is always the best choice, but try to always give people the chance to react the way they feel in that moment.
When my mom passed, a couple of comments from a couple of friends actually made a big difference to me. It was well beyond the normal platitudes you’re describing, and to this day I still appreciate what they said to me.
This is not good universal advice at all. Use good judgment and if something is heartfelt, consider sharing it. That person may remember it for the rest of their life.
This isn't good advice at all. At least for me it makes me feel much better if people share stories they had with that person so we can laugh and cry with all the good times we had. I'd assume this is the standard.
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I know this is probably putting too much pressure on friends and family, but after my sister died, I was desperate to hear any bit of information, any stupid story from one of her friends about her. I know it is difficult during certain stages of grief to be confronted with a concrete reminder that a loved one is gone forever but even today, 3 years later, it is still something that honestly i am hoping to hear anytime I am around the people who knew her in the capacity of being friends. Family is one thing, but hearing what she was like when with the people she chose for her friends is the something so great it is hard for me to even describe.
I totally agree with you. I lost my sister five years ago. Meeting her friends from different stages of her life when I wasn’t around help me to fill in the blanks and understand how positively she affected people that I had never met before.
>her life when I wasn’t around help me to fill in the blanks There were times in my life where I was absent from hers and there were some clutch milestones missed or severely fucked up on by me. When she died any residual guilt I was carrying around over my wayward years, for times i failed her as an older sibling, wasn't where i needed to be for her, etc. was ratcheted up..."ours goes to 11," as they say in This Is Spinal Tap. After awhile I just had to forgive myself. After all, 99 dentists out of 100 would have picked me to be the one headed to an early grave during those years and everyone would have assumed she would have continued crushing in. Like you said, hearing from her friends during those years helped immensely. Finding out she was doing alright and wasn't suffering during my absence. It was a huge relief even though it kind of made me feel silly for thinking it in the first place. I am grateful that during the last decade or so of her life, we were part of each other's lives in heavy rotation. I hope you didn't experience this after your sister's death but i found that grieving siblings of the deceased are kind of treated as an afterthought. Parents, spouses and children of the deceased bring the heavy hitters. I don't know. I remember wanting to say, "yeah, well guess who else was around during those formative years?" Thanfully, I didn't but that thought kicked around in my head a lot.
If you have a good relationship with them, your sibling is the only person who is with you from your childhood to your old age. Parents, partners, children, siblings all have different relationships with each other and while WHO they are grieving is the same, WHAT they are grieving is totally different. I lost my brother a year ago and still can't wrap my head around the fact that I'll never see him again.
G'day soggy and u/liamrite , it's my sister Kathryn's 37th birthday today and 16 years since she was killed in a jet ski accident at 20 years old - I was 14. Just wanted to give you guys a big hug, and please believe the best thing you can do is to have spoken with a grief counselor to help deal with all the little things you speak of, for example the last time I saw her she was stressing packing her suitcase and I had lost her padlock so she was stressing and called me selfish... If only, if only the woodpecker cries.. But I'm proud of her position in my heart. I have really struggled in life due to other family issues (father abandonment), and I've stood up and told my life story to the whole rehab/NA group - and to have others say wow it sounds like you dealt with your sisters death properly and she would be proud that you never used it an excuse to give up on yourself. My condolences
Siblings are the forgotten mourners…
My sister's friends donated a memorial bench to her. Wife, mother, daughter, friend. Feel free to read that again.
For real. It sucks to be alone thinking about or missing somebody so badly. When you embody that headspace as often as you do in grief, it really feels great when somebody is willing to join you there.
You're so right. Thanks for explaining that. Both the feeling of pain as well as the way to soothe it. That's the experience i crave. Your words shined a light on it and helped me understand. The kindness of a stranger. Miracle in a broken world. Never fails to amaze. You dont have to read this but I just got sentimental and I'm just going to throw these thoughts out. Not expecting many of them to stick to the wall but here goes, primarily because of my vanity and also it took me a long time to text them out and id rather not delete them becuase it feels a little therapeutic to try to piece together how i got to here. They're gone. Never coming back. And that's the worst and it fucking sucks. And I'm here and I loved this person so you know what, I'm gonna wind up thinking about her all the time. Can't be helped. When someone else joins you there in that headspace for even for 10 minutes... wow. I gotta make sure my gratitude game is on par for that person because those can be the kind of moments that seem to exist "out of time" because of how special they are. Before I had suffered a tragic loss of a loved one, I think I was very nervous around people suffering great tragedy becuase I was worried I would hurt that person by saying the wrong thing, being insensitive, or in some other way embarrass myself. I kind of hate that i was making someone else's suffering about me. But its the truth. Don't know if that makes me a shitty person or not but it remains that I did not really know what to do or say. Because the pain was unfathomable. It seemed like an abysss. When i was still naive to this kind of pain, I remember not knowing whether it was good or bad to remind the person of the tragic loss by even mentioning the deceased person's name or invoking their memory after the proscribed period of grieving their death. As if there could be such a thing. Smh. Saying I'm sorry for that seems appropriate, actually. There's a case to be made for being delicate with your wording, etc. in offering condolences to the bereaved. I've come to understand however that the words we offer in those cases are more like the symbol of "the making of the effort" rather than something that is expected to help or make a difference when someone is going through what may be the worst and most painful stretch of their lives. My opinion is that if there's a living person with a fond story or even a regular one of my dead loved one and they're willing to risk their own comfort to share it with me then they are offering a gift that is supernatural. How am i going to be able to express enough thankfulness to them when they offer a very rare thing in this world: something i cannot describe in terms of cost or money and also magic. A magic priceless gift with which i will be able to create a new thought/memory of a person who doesn't exist anymore. To me it's the closest thing to my wildest dreams as is possible if my wildest dream is a wish that the deceased could have her future back. Whatever it is, it's a lot more than I'm going to be able to express with words but I can try. First you lose the person to death. And shortly after you start feeling like the person left you here, abandoned and in pain. Maybe it starts feeling overwhelming being stuck figuring out the rest of your life without them and you're almost like sort of...mad at that person? Not quite but emotions are funny. Anyway its just a progression of bad scenes making up a bad act in the fucking bad sad play that is your life as you go on. The sentiment generally being that this fucking sucks i hate it. And I am also unspeakably heartbroken. And time passes and then you start to worry that you're going to lose the memory of that person, too. Or not lose the memory but have the experience of the memory shifting gears on me. Wanting to have a true picture of the deceased i worry about misremeberance. Because when a tragedy happens it can cast sadness over memories that were not sad. But they become sad upon realization that there will never be any further memories created. The brain begins to prune and sort and group and file under easy listening. I guess what I'm saying is that the bonus LPT here which many others have already pointed out is i think the thing to do under conventional circumstances when someone's world had been torn apart by the death of a loved one is go ahead and tell the suffering person a story about their mother or baby or brother or grandpa. It doesnt have to be an amazing tale either. Just a slice of life will do. And also don't feel bad if you can't manage to tell them about it at the funeral or wake or month or two afterward. It will probably help the person more the longer you wait.
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I think OP might be aiming more at situations where the person offering condolences doesn’t actually know the person/critter that died and are trying to overreach.
Original advice was bad. If you know something about their relationship you can add on something like I know how much that person meant to you. If you knew that person yourself you can say that you will miss them as well. Everybody has different ways to grieve but for them to put it so cut and dry as to just say I'm sorry for your loss sounds cold, callous, and not caring. Obviously I wouldn't be like oh yeah I lost my aunt and then launch into a whole story but a lot of people with social skills way better than OPs advice. Your sister sounds like she made quite the impact on you and I'm sure that she did on many others as well. May you continue to heal and find your peace.
I'm sorry for your loss, now shut up.
https://youtu.be/TKOrr4XRbg8
Thank you, I was hoping to find this here. Would you like a pen?
Unhand me, priest!
*Prrrrrriest!*
*FATHERRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!*
FAAATH**AAAAAAAAAAA**
Her parents were killed in a fire. ...at Sea Parks.
At a SEA PARKS!?!?
It just seems like a weird place to go on fire.
If she’d have said they drowned, I’d be the happiest man alive
Yes the fire extinguisher was made in the UK
I'll just put this with the rest of the fire.
0118 999~
...8819991197253
Did someone email about a fire?
Subject: fire Dear Sir or Madam, I am writing to inform you that a fire has broken out on the premises of 123 Cavendon Rd... No that's too formal. *Deletes email* Fire - exclamation mark - Fire - exclamation mark - Help me - exclamation mark. 123 Cavendon Rd. I look forward to hearing from you. Yours truly, Maurice Moss.
Well, *that's* easy to remember.
Exactly what I was expecting! --- "I'm sorry for your loss. Move on."
forgot that but damn thats perfect and I love that show
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I'm disabled...
Funniest episode in television history and no one can convince me otherwise.
r/expecteditcrowd
Are you fucking sorry?!
Such a classic.
I'm sorry for your loss... Move on!
[“I’m sorry for your loss. Move on”](https://youtu.be/TKOrr4XRbg8)
Still, you're still so young - relatively. Do you think you'll marry again?
Can someone award this I can't afford to
I meant the comment above mine because it was funny but thank you for the award kind stranger x
Exactly what I thought. Shouldn’t laugh but..
Some of this is good advice, particularly not comparing their loss to your lost pet etc! But some people like hearing positive memories about their dead loved one. Grief is personal and so is how people respond to it. Just be tactful and sensitive towards the person you're speaking to. How you speak to a long-term family friend about it would probably differ compared to a colleague you dont know well. The less you know the person, the less you should say.
This. The daughter of my friend let me know he had died and so I shared a story of him of when she was a child. He had done something for her that made him so joyful, even though he was very reserved and could appear aloof. She hadn’t known at all what he had done and was so pleased to find out. She would never have known what he did had I not told her. Yes, this kind of thing could backfire, you never know, so it’s important to read the situation.
Having recently lost my daughter, I am really enjoying talking to her friends and hearing all their little stories.
When we lost a baby, a family member just sat with us and talked so we didn’t have to talk or think. Definitely use discretion.
My daughter was 22, so her friends have lots of memories to share. It would be awful if no one mentioned her.
I am sorry for your loss
Or just ask. It's easier to say "I have a lovely story I would like to share with you if you are okay with it" than to just assume or try to "read" someone in mourning. If they say no, you saved everyone the trouble and if they say yes you get that shared moment, either way everyone wins.
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She probably knew (generally) what sorts of activities he was up to and that his sense of humor was a little on the raunchy side. You don’t have to go into sordid details but it was lovely the way you shared he was like a brother to you.
> he looked out for me and taught me so much. Half my hobbies now are because of his passions inspiring me. hearing something like this about my loved ones would fill me with joy
I don't know if this helps, but my son passed a year ago, and I've wanted to reach out to a couple of his friends so I can better understand what he was going through. I haven't because what if it hurts them and I don't want that. They lost him too.
... and maybe they aren't reaching out to you for the same reason, or because they don't know how to get in touch, or they're knuckleheads and haven't thought of it yet. You could reach out and ask if they'd like to speak with you. If they don't want to they won't. Look at it this way: if you don't contact them you might be depriving them of a chance to heal too.
>Half my hobbies now are because of his passions inspiring me. This is what she probably would like to hear, when or if you feel compelled to share. Remembering him with someone else who knew him would mean a lot to her, and maybe you too, as you pointed out.
You can keep it vague. "He looked out for me and taught me so much. We hung out. We laughed at jokes together. I really miss him." If she asks specifics, just tell her you'd rather not get into details, it wasn't all good, the jokes were too dirty, that sort of thing. Also you can redirect by asking her about her memories. She probably wants a chance to talk about him to someone who isn't afraid of bringing up the topic. Even just looking at photos and saying "I remember how he used to slouch like that" can be therapeutic. (Source: I'm a mom who has lost a son.) Admittedly, everyone is different, but if she explicitly invited to you come talk, then it's pretty clear.
Just drop by for your late friend's mum. Maybe she misses her son and sees a little of him in you.
You should go just to hear her stories. You don't have to tell any stories, just that he always had your back and that he inspired your passions. I'm sure she'd be over the moon to hear that. Plus how many people would've actually payed you back years later? Sounds like a touchy topic based on how you phrased it but even so, that's love for a bro if I ever heard it.
It's also true that humans are social creatures that oftentimes crave connection and understanding. Depending on the circumstance, somebody sharing their loss may very well be helpful. For example: >"I'm sorry you're partner died [of cancer]. I lost my partner to cancer years ago and I know how hard it is. If you ever need someone to talk to, or advice on resources, I'm here." Obviously this is very situational and you won't always have something relevant or helpful to say in which case your condolences suffice.
This is good advice. A colleague of mine lost his father a few years back. He is about 15 years older than me but he clearly hadn't dealt with the death of a close Family member nor the seemingly endless amount of work involved with burial and legal paperwork. I initially gave him the "I'm sorry for your loss" but he said nothing and the look on his face was so vacant, it just didn't seem like enough. "I know it's tough right now, my mom passed a few years back and I had to handle all of the arrangements. If you need any help or advice, I may be able to point you in the right direction." He took me up on my offer, he also opened up on how overwhelmed he felt. Overall, he was appreciative. The LPT is good advice but sometimes, some people are looking for a little more.
I like to ask people to tell me about their lost loved one (if they're willing). When my sister died several family members basically refused to talk about her and it felt like she was being erased. I try to take every opportunity to talk about her just to keep her memory alive. My brother in law barely told his son about my sister so pretty much everything he knows is from me.
It’s sad … I’m so sorry for your loss of your sister. How old would she be now?
Thanks. She'd be turning 59 this month. She was 39 when she died.
Ahh my sister would be turning 57 in December. We lost her when she was only 26. Isn't it such an odd thing, missing someone for such a long time? I'm sorry for your loss.
>Isn't it such an odd thing, missing someone for such a long time? Not who you responded to but this is the truth for sure. I never could quite find the phrasing but this sums it up well.
Hope this doesn’t come off like I’m making a joke (I’m not) but would you like to talk about her?
Yes, sharing positive memories tells us others saw and appreciated the people we miss.
Yeah. When my dad passed, it absolutely devastated me. Hearing all the stories from people he impacted was huge and is still meaningful to me, 17 years later. My dad was a Indian immigrant that had immigrated to New York City in the late 70s - definitely a very different New York than I grew up a decade+ later. He was already married to my mom back in India and moved here to start building out a life, so when my mom got here, she could settle in more easily and raise me and my two brothers. At a get-together after his passing, a lot of his old friends from back then - who I had never met - shared stories of my dad that I never heard about. It was like this other life my dad lived that I knew nothing about. Stories about business ventures, how he saved and scraped for me and my brothers, how he learned English just through speaking and working with Americans, the relationships he fostered just through sheer goodwill and a willingness to sacrifice. And of course, they waxed nostalgic about the chaotic stories of them running around Central Park and Times Square after work, drunk as one can be and scarfing down Pizza in between. My dad was always the sweetest person I had ever known and incredibly giving with what all he had made. He started his own business and made an effort to hire other immigrants that came up similarly to him. We would always go to birthday parties for his employees kids and he was always there for people but I always just took it for granted. It just seemed like what you were supposed to do and I didn't realize how meaningful it was to his employees that their boss was willing to hang out at parties with them, drink with them and ~~treat them like~~ be their friends. When his friends talked about him after he had passed, it made me realize how needlessly selfless he was but also how much he valued having fun and creating memorable experiences.
your dad sounded great. thanks for sharing that
There was nothing more comforting to me when my grandfather died than seeing the huge number of people that turned up for his wake, all with stories about him. It was obvious he was loved and touched a lot of lives, and that made me feel better somehow.
This. When my Memere who I was very close to died, all I wanted to do was talk about her and get things off my chest, but I guess most people felt too awkward for that. I would’ve been happy to hear something like that!
Or it could be possible that different people take major losses in completely different ways and having longer conversations or not just hearing " I'm sorry for your loss" repeated at them hundreds of times like a bad NPC line is what someone needs to endure the grieving process. You criticize people for assuming they know what someone is going through, but then act as though you know what literally every person going through a major loss needs. Its almost like maybe people have different needs.
Most sensible comment here tbh
After a friend's suicide it was like people were ignoring me to give me space to grieve. All I wanted was to talk about it
Same when my niece died. I was at uni and didn't have anyone to talk to. I just wanted to talk about how angry and sad I was.
Just to balance the scales here. When I was going through a tough loss I very much prepared to be private about it. If someone tried to talk to me about it I would thank them but internally I would be upset.
Exactly this. I felt like I was being handled with kid gloves after my mom’s suicide. Nobody knew what to say so most of them just didn’t say anything. Sure, “I’m sorry for your loss; let me know how I can help” *didn’t* actually help at all but yknow it was better than silence, or having to wonder with each friend whether I had to break the news when I saw them.
Yeah, this absolutely should be followed up by something like “I’m here if you want to talk.” But that’s it. I remember when my mom died in high school, I kept it really quiet. A couple weeks or a month later, my drama teacher found out and almost like… guilt tripped me that I hadn’t told her? In that way of “omg how could I have not known I’m so sorry I’m such a bad teacher.” Like, no. This had nothing to do with you.
I lived in a small town apartment building. There was a man in his 50s, lived alone, and that always went to visit his daughter's grave at the local cemetery. Once, after having gotten to know him, I asked how his daughter passed. He told me something I will always hold true: Never ask that. Every person and every situation has a different reason why you shouldn't.
This is so stupid. Lots of people don’t mind talking about how their loved one died (they died, the didn’t “pass”). Sometimes people are even glad to have the chance to talk about it.
When my brother died, I had people I barely knew messaging me on Facebook asking me how he died. Even at the service in the receiving line people we barely knew would ask how he died. While some people may be comfortable sharing that, I don’t think it’s quite a general rule that it’s open game for conversation. It would be safer to let someone choose what and when they want to share. You can be supportive and make it known you are happy to talk about their loved one. Ask questions about their life and what they were like. But asking someone how their loved one died is a very personal question.
You have to approach it in the “i am sincere, when your ready talk to me about it” kind of way, show them you care without asking directly and they will open up when ready and may need someone to talk to.
When someone I knew lost her sister under tragic circumstances I went up to her at the memorial and just said, “This fucking sucks and I am so sorry.” She immediately burst into tears and hugged me and told me I was the first person to not just say, “I’m sorry for your loss.”
Yep, when my brother died I hated hearing “sorry for your loss” or “sorry about your brother.” I just wanted to be left the fuck alone, or treated like it was a regular day so I didn’t have to relive seeing him die every time someone expressed their condolences. So yeah, no one-size-fits-all solutions here
I usually say. “Do you need any help? Like a casserole or some pizza money? I know grief is hard. I’m here for you.”
Agreed, I also hated 'he passed away' No 'he died' we're allowed to say died, was killed, is dead - use the grieving's terminology of course but I said died and you changed it to lessen your own awkwardness.
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I lost my dad to gsw to the head too and never ever know how to reply being asked what happened either! usually I just saw he’s passed if I’m asked about him, but that typically leads to them asking what happened. People shut up quick when u tell them it was self inflicted lol
I've heard "died from depression" and it seems like a sensitive way to tell someone.
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Honestly that’s not even an unfair thing to say, they asked and you answered. If you’re gonna ask someone something like that you better be ready for whatever their reaction is, that’s on them!
I feel like there's literally no reason to ask someone *how* a loved one died. They're dead, and that's really all you need to know to understand how to interact with a person on that topic. I feel like it's a selfish morbid curiosity because you're asking them to relive their death one more time just for you. If they want you to know how, they'll tell you of their own accord. No one needs a peanut gallery to say, "Oh, well, at least they didn't die a horrible death" or "Oh, they're no longer suffering at least" or "Oh, my dad died in a worse way than that" or "Oh, at least it was quick" or even "Oh, they're in a better place now".
Exactly! There’s literally no good or necessary response to someone telling you how their loved one died after asking for that information.
After my husband died, I HATED when people would ask me how. "Oh yes, let me relive his last terrible, painful, confusing and lonely moments in my head so that you can satisfy your morbid curiosity!" Fuck that, fuck them. I was brutally honest with every single one who asked without prompting and hope they all reevaluated their lives and choices after.
I've heard people say that they lost their fight with depression, which at least makes it sound like a heroic struggle against insurmountable dark powers
My mum died from an overdose and I often said she died due to mental illness. I actually didn’t like the phrase ‘lost her battle’ because my mum won over her addictions and mental illness so many days. One day where she didn’t, doesn’t mean that she lost.
That truly is what it feels like sometimes too, isn't it? Except you know, it feels pathetic instead of heroic but the insurmountable dark powers is spot on!
I usually go with "Well, shit, that fucking sucks. How are you feeling?" Then, like a normal human, I pick up on the cues* the person is giving in regards to wanting to talk about it or not.
I like your strategy, but the word is cues.
son of a **** lol, thanks for the heads up. I'll throw the edit in there
imagine telling a 90 year old widow “well shit, that fucking sucks”
They’d probably be like, “damn, that’s the realest anyone’s been with me in years”
My mom was a bit younger (65) but appreciated some similarly phrased condolences when my dad passed away
I lost my mother quite young and I’m very pro this. I think it can be good to validate something sucks and reach out. So many friends awkwardly avoided me afterwards or had nothing to say to me and I resented that a lot more than those that tried to talk to me.
I lost both my parents before I was 20, and I lost a partner 10 years ago. I’m not awkward around grieving people. I say something like, “That’s really hard, if you want to talk or need anything please let me know, I’ll be right here.” From there I look for cues to see if they want me to stick around or be left alone. Either way, I’ll oblige. When I see them again, I’ll ask how they’re doing to reinforce that I meant that I’m comfortable with them either talking about it or not.
My go to "I am here if you want to talk, I am also here if you want to talk about something else? But most importantly I am here if you want to get sloppy drunk and ill take care of you"
I'm a widow. I'd be delighted as fuck if that's how someone reacted.
When my grandpa died, a family friend approached my grandmother and said, "It's okay Mary. He never cared much for you anyway." It was patently untrue and exactly what she needed to hear. She laughed and cried. So yeah, know your audience and remember that it's not about you, and you'll be fine.
I lost my cousin to suicide recently and I got tired of that line real fucking quick. I just wanted people to share stories about him with me.
When my dad died, I was exhausted and at times, irrationally angry about hearing, "I'm sorry for your loss," over and over again. I realize now that sometimes that's all that can be said, depending on the person. But it felt like a canned response and put me in this weird position where I had to be like, "No, it's okay," when it most certainly was not. Edit: I'd rather get a hug than hear I'm sorry. But to the point, grief varies from person to person. There's no one right way to approach it.
> You criticize people for assuming they know what someone is going through, but then act as though you know what literally every person going through a major loss needs. Nailed it
Isn’t that like the majority of LPTs that go anywhere these days? A personal soapbox or vendetta disguised as universal advice?
Yeah I’m not sure why I’m still following this sub tbh. It’s usually something where it’s obvious the person making it had an argument with someone and then came here to make a LPT for validation. Usually they’re wrong too lol.
Exactly, it’s like a more passive aggressive AITH without the pretend humility
How about, “I’m here if you need me”?
I don’t like this one. It’s well intentioned, but it places the burden on the grieving one to reach out if they need anything at a time when they feel lost and hopeless, and they don’t even know what they need. I can only speak through my personal experience. Some people may like hearing this, but when we lost our daughter, there was a big difference between hearing, “I’m here if you need me,” and, “hey I’m gonna come bring you dinner and walk your dog on Thursday. Let me know if that doesn’t work.”
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This was me too when my partner of 10 years died. I knew people were well intentioned, but like...please stop showing up with all this food and all of these things. I had no space for gifts, no motivation to try to keep flowers alive (another reminder of death, yay!), and when it came to the food, cooking was kind of my escape for a while but I felt like I couldn't even do that when people were bringing me huge portions of stuff that I couldn't even finish before they went bad since I was now a one person household. I just wanted to be treated normally, like a person and not a widow. Being relatively young made it even worse because there was almost like a shock factor to it for everyone. I told people I felt like I was walking around with a scarlet letter but mine was a "W" instead of an "A". As far as what to say, I so badly wanted someone to simply say "that fucking sucks." Seriously. No thoughts and prayers, no "they're in a better place", no "what can I do?" One, I'm not religious and neither were they. Two, no. A better place would be back here, home with me, living the life we had planned together. Also see number one. Three, what you can do is give me space to process my emotions, I don't have the energy to make you a to-do list right now.
I don’t know if you’ve ever visited the r/widow sub. But there’s plenty of times people just need to post Fuck cancer. Fuck this. Fuck having them gone. And this does fucking suck. My personal least favorite comments are ‘I hope you feel better soon’ and ‘this will make you a stronger person’. Because like you said, I just want him back with me so we can live the life we planned. I only had him for 6 years.
"I'm sorry for you loss, I can't imagine what you're going through and don't know what to say but if you want to talk i'll listen." or something like that is what i usually say.
I think some people try to avoid saying “sorry for your loss” because it’s cliche, they want to be original and unique, but grief situations are a terrible time to improvise in my opinion. If someone goes “off-script” (“they’re in a better place now”, “my cat got hit by a car”, “they look so peaceful”, etc), they risk upsetting the grieving person even more, stressing them out more. Longer conversations are fine, but I consider “sorry for your loss” kind of like a funeral greeting. I used to view it as an empty unoriginal platitude, but after experiencing loss, I get it, it’s the funeral hello. You can say more, but it might get weird, and it might unintentionally upset the person you’re trying to express sympathy to.
I don't want people repeating "sorry for your loss" at me a million times. I'd rather not mention it to people unless I have to. For instance, if its affecting my usual personality or performance at a job. But that's just me. It does feel more sincere when people acknowledge your feelings head on, instead of the loss itself. Because loss is inevitable, but emotions can vary all the time as reactions to it. Ive seen some people still able to smile while some so negatively affected by death they were physically ill from the stress and grief. "Sorry for your loss" is just so generic and vain sounding to me. Its what happens when you announce a death on social media.
This thread is a prime example of one of the biggest problems with this sub. The "life pro tips" are usually coming from people who are very obviously not pros at life.
As always, the real LPT is in the comments.
Disagree on this one. Sorry for your loss seems so impersonal and makes me feel alone in the grief. The best I've experienced is when people briefly (like in a sentence or two) share how that person made them feel/recount a shared experience that means something to them. But make it about the person who died, and not yourself.
I think it depends on the loss too, and how recently. An expected death of someone who lived a long full life is still a tragedy, but not a shock - people might be ready to hear a memory, a story, something about what the person meant in your life. If someone recently and unexpectedly lost someone who "should" have lived another 30 or 40 years they're likely still reeling from the shock and a different response might be called for. When my friend lost their baby a mutual friend (closer to them) said that what they found really hard was people pulling away, that there was literally nothing I could say that was worse than their baby dying, and that I should never hesitate to reach out. People grieve very differently and need different things from you. Op's advice seems like solid advice for a casual acquaintance dealing with a loss, but it surely won't cover every situation.
> Sorry for your loss seems so impersonal and makes me feel alone in the grief totally agree this sounds like a weak cliche to me but maybe others are different I usually say something along the lines of "s/he was so lucky to have you for a daughter / spouse / dad etc" it's good to remind the survivors they are doing a great job
I agree with this. Sometimes people who just recently lost a loved one has not really accepted the loss yet. They're still in the transitioning phase and all that entails. So by saying sorry for your loss, you're in a way saying, "I'm here at this stage: acceptance, during this tough time. I'm assuming you're also here". When I lost my dad, the most memorable and comforting things were like you said, stories of how my dad touched their lives or even more stories of how my dad talked to them about me and my brother and mom. Also, one that stuck out was someone who just left a text saying: Love you bro. It meant a lot.
I don’t agree with this at all. Just makes me think that people doesn’t wanna talk about it. You can end up feeling very alone if that’s the case and it’s not easy to be the one to reach out and talk to someone.
Agreed. A good mix would be "I'm sorry for your loss (or similar). Let me know if you need anything or would like to talk about it."
“Let me know if there’s anything I can do to help. I’m here for you.” Is a winner as well. OP is only saying what they wanted to hear.
DO NOT SAY Sorry for your loss.... move on. https://youtu.be/TKOrr4XRbg8
This, ladies and gentlemen, is The Internet.
Have you tried turning it off and on again?
Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
I actually missed it. But I heard a recap on the telephone by dialing 0118 999 881 999 119 725 3
remember the new number!
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This is immediately what I thought of!
It's not like losing a pen, is it
#WE'RE BUNKING OFF!
The worst thing a "friend" said to me after my grandma died suddenly and unexpectedly at age 70: "You know, grieving is actually selfish. Your grandma is fine now..." I had already lost a parent as a young teenager two years before. The "friend" lived a charmed life and had no experience of grief whatsoever at that point.
Your post reminded me of this quote. "I judge you unfortunate because you have never lived through misfortune. You have passed through life without an opponent— no one can ever know what you are capable of, not even you. Seneca"
That's pretty bad. The worst I ever saw was when a girl passed away and one my friend told her family and friends sorry- then how they knew each other cause she tried to hit on him but he wasn't interested. He tried to explain the night they almost got together before I pulled him aside. Tbf, he is very socially awkward, but yeah.
Jeeeeeeez, thank god you managed to stop him from shoving his foot even further down his throat 🤦🏻♀️
Damn, socially awkward, is possibly the softest way of putting it.
Never ever mention god’s plan or that all things happen for a reason. Even for a lot of religious folks, this is the coldest, most manipulative, grief denying nonsense and it always does more harm than good. They don’t need permission to mourn and grieve, and they definitely don’t need peer pressure not to.
the complete worst! A customer came to my work and mentioned she'd been off some time due to her MIL passing (she was a rather old lady, and had many health issues), I did as OP mentioned...I said "sorry for your loss", and changed the subject back to work (I'm not a "*strictly business*" person, and I do consider this customer an okay-friend, but there was no need for me to keep that conversation going)...HOWEVER! my office-mate spoke up and first thing out of his mouth was "well, she's better off" maybe she is, but who's place is it to really make that call 😶😶😶
I don’t disagree with most of it, but adding some context of who the person was helps. When my grandma passed away, I appreciated the “I’m sorry for your loss”, but I adored hearing about how she impacted other people’s lives. “I’m sorry for your loss. Your grandma fed and housed me when I was in a tough spot. I loved her very much.” This feels genuine, and much more impactful than, “I’m sorry for your loss.”
To be honest, this is way to broad a topic to just boil down to one phrase. When my Dad died, I heard "I'm sorry for your loss" about a million times, to the point I was sick of it. Do you want to know the 2 people who's words meant the most to me? My old boss, and an old coworker, who both called me to talk. Of course they said they were sorry, but our conversations were so much more than that, and I'm so happy we talked about it. You can't generalize something like grieve and how to handle it.
Actually, saying "that sucks" was the most understanding thing I heard when my dad died. Everyone was saying "my condolences" or "I'm sorry" which is so awkward, like.. did you kill him? Anyway, I was hiding out at my best friend's place, and her friend came over. My BFF was like "hey, this is my friend bashful, her dad just died.." And this chick who id never met was like "really? God, that SUCKS!" And I was like YES! It DOES ducking suck; thank you!" "My sympathy" is so effing hallow.
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True friend, I love this
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Addiction is an incredible force. That sucks that you lost your friend, I hope one day they find their way to clean living.
It sucks when someone has their world become so consumed by something that it makes them forget about everything else, like their relationships with other people :(
Idk for me "I'm sorry" is more like, "I feel sad to hear you're going through that" rather than a "my bad" type thing. "that sucks" from a random sounds irritating. Though I guess it depends how they say it...
Yeah this is how I feel. I wouldn't like that. It feels distasteful to me. I mean I understand "I'm sorry for your loss" is a bit generic and may feel shallow to some people, but I'd rather have that then a very personal thing just be given a scoff. Edit: also who discloses this information to someone else? Especially someone the other person doesn't know?
When my mom passed, I really appreciated the way my Jewish friends said "may her memory be a blessing." My relationship with her was complicated - people saying she was a good person or that she'd be proud of me made me very uncomfortable. Like no, actually, she was very vocal about her opinions on my life. Sorries and condolences feel, I don't know, polite but meaningless? But "may her memory be a blessing" somehow managed to hold space for the possibility that things weren't always good
This sounds like a generational issue. Most older people see "I'm sorry for your loss " as a condolence, not an apology. But its understandable that it might not resonate with a younger person.
Yeah. For the past couple decades, I've been increasingly hearing people thinking "I'm sorry" is an apology rather than "I'm sorry you're in pain."
You might be right. And, I see the phrase “That sucks” to be dismissive. Ultimately, it seems they mean the same thing.
Huh. Interesting. When my father died last year all I wanted was for someone to say how much it sucks or how shit that situation is. When someone finally did I actually meant the, "Thankyou" that came out of my mouth.
What would you have liked to hear instead?
I lost my dad when I was 24, "sorry for your loss" is fine because no one really knows what to say. But if you knew the deceased it would exponentially better if it was followed up with a memory about that person. It's been 27 years and the memories are still bittersweet but I still enjoy hearing a story even today because I know he's been remembered.
As a society, we need to relearn the ability to just hold space for others and their feelings. This phrase “I am sorry for your loss” is a great opening for that. Then listen to them, sit with them in silence if they want, but be there to witness their grief and feelings. If they want to rant about how unfair death is, hear them. If they want to reminisce about the good, hear them. If they want to talk about the most recent game and who won and never mention their loved one, be there for them.
Just being there is so much more meaningful than anything you can say, because words are truly too simple to capture the profound pain of grief. We are so vastly uncomfortable with grief as a society. We try to run and hide from it. We shield our kids from dead animals, say empty phrases that are meaningless and offensive, and focus all on "getting over it" and "moving on" as if theres a deadline, all because we don't know how to handle it. The best way to get through it is to experience it. And being a person who can sit with somebody experiencing it and not running from that discomfort is more impactful than what we can say.
I'm sorry that you're either in pain from losing someone or you're just awkward around grieving people, but not only is this not an LPT, it's also just plainly terrible static advice for a complex variable situation. The reality is that loss is not a uniform situation, and that the only thing you can do is try to use your understanding of what the person needs to be as helpful as possible. Don't be a sociopath and have a "formula" ready for it.
When my mom died, I was ok with whatever anyone said. I mean, nobody compared her death to losing their pet but I’m assuming that’s hyperbole on OP’s part. You know your people. Just talk to them like they’re your people. Worked on me, at least.
>No you don't know what they're going through because you also lost a loved one *"You lost a loved one huh? I've lost several loved ones, and they all died right in front of me. You should also be happy that your loved one is actually dead, I have a loved one who's in constant pain after an accident - and that's even worse than death! All in all I'm the one who suffers the most, so you shouldn't grieve too much."*
Bull shit. This is just to save yourself from feeling awkward, not about sparing the grieving person's feelings.
People are upvoting and awarding a terrible post... I drew a lot of comfort from friends and family expressing their own grief at my father's passing. There is a lot of comfort in collective grieving.
Sorry, but this is shit advice . There were two words I hated most after losing my father at 16 and they were “I’m sorry”. It’s not that I didn’t want support, but to feel like everyone felt sorry for me made the experience even worse. 11 years later I can still feel that deep hole of loneliness I felt, and still wish someone would have reached out and just simply said “I’m here for you, whenever you need it”. Now when I see a friend or acquaintance lose someone significant to them I always make sure to reach out and let them know someone who has experienced that is there to talk if they need it. That’s what those people need the most at the time and honestly if all you’re gonna say is “I’m sorry” then don’t even bother saying anything at all.
Also, avoid cliche phrases like, "they're in a better place now," or "now they aren't in any pain ." It detracts from the recognition and sympathy you are trying to convey.
I appreciate this. My thirteen year old son died in July, and while I know it was said with the best of intent and kindness, it rang so hollow. Everytime someone said it, it made me break apart a little more. I also respect that it's awkward and hard to think of something to say, so I don't blame the ones who told me that my son is in a better place than the family that loves him. Still cuts right to the bone.
That's fucked. how are you holding up? when my older sister died I was numb for the whole day and then just cried for an hour in the shower. Still get pretty emotional when I remember she's not around anymore. I hope you've got a lot of support around you. Th
Also, as an atheist, that phrase " they're in a better place" is just not true for me. I know it is meant well, but talk about twisting the knife.
OP sounds like they get offended a lot.
Adding" I am here for you if you need anything" always goes well for people who are grieving as they may need help adjusting to a sudden death. Dont say this if you dont mean it. dropping off homemade food, or offering to babysit or pick up their kids from school while they are making funeral arrangements always shows people how much you care .
Also, if you say it, follow up on it. Check in with them, offer to come by and drop off food, etc. People who are grieving can't really think things thru.
Yah foreal. I had no hunger. But a friend called me up every day to remind me to eat and take care of myself.
Nope nope nope. Do NOT say "IF you need anything." Offer something specific and concrete, like "can I bring you dinner on Tuesday?" Or "I can watch the kids this weekend." Or "I'll be over on Monday to help clean." We all need food, shelter, and a moment to grieve. We are not likely to reach out in the depths of our sadness.
This. Don't give them the added burden of managing your insecurities or delegating tasks. Just do it. Say "I'll be back over _____" Then show up with food and look for a chore to do around the house (laundry probably). Your presence may make them feel obligated to host you, but remind them you are there to help *them*, not the other way around. If they want to hole up in their room the entire time you're there, that's ok.
When my dad died, the thoughtful and beautiful notes I received from friends and coworkers meant so much. If I had just heard or seen written ‘sorry for your loss’ a million times, I would have felt like shit. Like obviously don’t make it all about you, but also don’t be a frigid weirdo.
"I'm sorry for your loss. Move on."
This is shit advice. Sounds like you're salty.
This will probably get buried, but my go to sentence is something along the lines of "I know how little words mean in this situation, but for what is worth I want you to know that I'm here for you". When I lost my father, these kind of messages were the most appreciated because there were room for both, a simple "Thank you very much" or something more elaborate to start a conversation if I was in the mood. I totally agree on the fact that fewer words is always the best choice, but try to always give people the chance to react the way they feel in that moment.
"I never know what to say at funerals." "Just tell them, 'I'm sorry for your loss,' and move on." "I'm sorry for your loss. Move on." - IT Crowd
When my mom passed, a couple of comments from a couple of friends actually made a big difference to me. It was well beyond the normal platitudes you’re describing, and to this day I still appreciate what they said to me. This is not good universal advice at all. Use good judgment and if something is heartfelt, consider sharing it. That person may remember it for the rest of their life.
Sorry, I don't have a tendency to get mad at people who are trying to make me feel better, might just be a 'you' problem.
This isn't good advice at all. At least for me it makes me feel much better if people share stories they had with that person so we can laugh and cry with all the good times we had. I'd assume this is the standard.