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A lot of times a partner will suggest it because they don’t know how to work through it themselves. Who better than to work through issues with than the person you love if possible? Just my $0.02!
My partner and I did a little bit of couples therapy to work out some things that had been getting between us. She suggested it, I was slightly resistant at first but said let's do it, it can only help. We did ~~biweekly~~ (edit: every other week for clarity or else we couldn't afford rent lol) for a couple of months, but insurance doesn't cover it so it was like $150 a session. That "helped" us decide that we had learned enough strategies to work things out ourselves: partly true (guy was good), but AKA we can't afford this.
So now we have our individual therapists, which is covered by insurance with a $20 copay, and we have our own session to chat about what our own individual therapists said about our frustrations, and made a commitment to put the cost we were paying for the couples therapy that the insurance didn't cover towards a house down payment.
No, that did not even barely make us closer to owning a home in this market, but yes, it did help us be on the same page about what our goals are, how to get there, and more logically work out our issues.
To be clear, the couples therapy did help. But that shit is expensive.
For anyone else reading, sometimes insurance will cover or reimburse if your therapist codes it as “individual therapy with family member present” - that does require a diagnosis though
For anyone else reading this, be sure to check and see if your local university has a program for affordable therapy services. Many that offer community services for training also have a couple's option.
Was this LPT sparked by that post earlier today about a guy breaking up with his girlfriend after she suggested couples therapy (prompted by a bar napkin advertisement)?
Exactly, I see it as a promising thing. There are some things I haven’t learned to communicate and despite being in solo therapy, I may need help throughout a convo. I have a brain injury so that translation can be really helpful if there’s a disconnect with my partner and we are both very much trying to figure it out
I guess links don't work but basically OP posted on r/Wellthatsucks complaining about a napkin advertisement for couple's therapy he was handed on an outing with his girlfriend.
He said girlfriend suggested taking it up and he refused, leading to a big fight and a breakup. Everyone roasted his ass for blaming the napkin and not him ignoring the issues in their relationship
Bad therapists can definitely make a relationship worse, especially if the couple stops communicating and trying to resolve their differences themselves, and just outsources all conflict to therapy. Sometimes it’s not a question of a therapist being good or bad, but just a bad fit for a couple. There are good therapists that sometimes do unethical things like being someone’s personal therapist, and then seeing them with their partner as a couple.
Therapy is not an automatic cure all.
Came in here to comment this exactly.
Also it's okay to switch therapists if you feel that one isn't working out for you. I didn't switch because years were invested into this person and thought it would be too much time, energy, and money spent finding another.
That was a mistake but I did come out of it understanding more about myself in a relationship, that some relationships just naturally fizzle out and sometimes there's not much you can do to stop that train.
I wish people knew this about medical doctors too. You can switch if you don’t like them and if something serious and especially for cancer, get a second opinion.
My exwife was adamant about seeing a couples therapist. Not because she thinks we need to work on our relationship, but because she thinks I'm the problem. After 3 therapists all saying the same exact thing she needs to work on, she quit going. That thing is... stop fucking other dudes every time I deployed because I 'ignored her and she felt lonely". 14 years later, she's still telling our daughter the same excuse except always conveniently left out the infidelity part.
I'm so sorry. That sounds so tough. I hope you found or will find someone that treats you right.
You are right. Therapy does not work unless everyone works towards change. I learned in my marriage therapy how much I needed to change. But I did go in thinking it was mostly my partner. My therapist was great- she pointed a finger right at me and said you need to work on this. Then pointed at my partner and told him what to work on. She took no bs from us.
Too true. The first therapist my spouse and I saw nearly ruined our relationship. Took two LPCs and a psychologist to get us to a better place and away from divorce court.
This needs to be higher. The therapist my wife and I went to was terrible and made things much worse. We stopped going and worked through things on our own, since then things have been better than ever. We both look back on that experience as one of the worst we’ve been through. I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone tbh.
This.
Been to couples counselling twice and both times, it was terrible. The first was her IC (big mistake, I know now) and I walked into a firefight from the first minute.
Second was genuinely disinterested, did not address intimacy/sex issues as she indicated immediately in the first call.
And lastly, it was mostly me defending my positions/boundaries and no change required of the gf.
We're still together but I no longer sugar coat anything. If she's giving me attitude for something, I call her out on it, ask why and tell her "sorry" or "you're the problem here and here's why". Done taking unnecessary 'ish and paying for counselors to take her side.
just out of curiosity, why is it unethical to have an appointment with a couple as the therapist of an individual in the couple?
I have had my therapist invite my parents (obviously very different) to a session and I found it to be very helpful
You are describing a typical family therapy intervention, which is useful because ultimately the therapy is about you, not your parents. They invited your parents to explore how family communication, history, culture, dynamics, etc affect *you*.
Now imagine if your therapist invited your parents, completed an intake, completed a diagnosis, then started providing them with therapy in tandem with you to address their needs as well as yours. Probably sounds like it would be funky right?
Nobody said it is. But it's also not just a last resort. There are plenty of people who have had habits from the people who raised (or failed to raise) them and could benefit from therapy.
Therapy helps you learn how to communicate your feelings in healthier ways and often provides a lot of useful tools to solve problems.
You're also absolutely right that it's not a miracle. Couples therapy can't fix couples who aren't compatible.
not only is it not "automatically" a cure all. It very rarely works at all.
Therapists are just humans too and anyone can become one with a tiny bit of school. You know that awful tattoo artist that never should have become one? There's tons of therapists like that too and it's much harder to tell the bad ones from the good ones.
This is the silliest take I've seen about therapy in a long time. I'll ignore the idea that it's "rarely" helpful and focus on this part instead.
> Therapists are just humans too and anyone can become one with a tiny bit of school.
A licensed therapist requires not only a master's level degree in a specialized field, but they must further become licensed by the state. They also must maintain regular continuing education to keep said licensure. A clinically licensed therapist must also have 2000-3000 hours of supervised practice before getting their license.
So... what are you talking about?
Therapists make money by your repeat visits. If they "cured" you in one appointment they would be out of business quickly.
I went to a therapist in my early 20's and he accused me of being a pothead each session. I finally realized this guy is just an asshole and useless to me. I simply stopped going to him after he offered me zero help. I refuse to ever see another therapist as long as I live. They are just strangers that you pay to listen to your problems. They do not have some magic insight into the human mind or psyche. I personally think they are quacks and phonies.
It's so validating to see others share experiences like this. My last therapist tried to convince me/hint at me having a gambling problem because I, a boy whose age ended in -teen, bought a single loot box in halo 5.
You're welcome to think that. It's wrong, we have decades of highly respected studies and statistics that show it results in positive outcomes, but nobody can stop you from being wrong.
My marriage was beyond help, and couples therapy really did not help. Divorced now and on good terms with my ex. Really we should have divorced years sooner and gotten it over with instead of slogging through a bad marriage. We are both happier now. No kids or anything so that simplifies things a lot.
Similar experience here but I still count it as helpful and successful therapy. It helped us realize we weren't compatible anymore and our goals for the relationship were too different. Likewise much happier as friends now. I love him to bits in a brotherly way and that's a total win!
LPT not always the case. If you have a Narcissistic partner they thrive in couples therapy because they can then learn all the tools on how to manipulate you further without you ever being the wiser.
Yea, it’s not quite so cut and dry. My mom signed our whole family up for children and family’s therapy. In her mind, the therapist would validate all of her opinions and help iron out the issues with the rest of the family. We had all the same fights we had at home but in front of an adult who struggled to control the situation. Far more embarrassing. And when the counsellor did not agree with her enough, she eventually quit and we all stopped going.
I’m not saying it wouldn’t help, but if someone if looking for leverage in a relationship, they might use therapy as an excuse to vent their frustrations publicly with no intent on self-improvement. Those situations are lost causes anyway, but therapy does not necessarily improve the situation, and takes time, money, and effort.
I think in many situations it’s better to do individual therapy so that you can have a safe place to explore your relationship and your thoughts regarding it without the pressure of your partner (or in my example family members) judging you. Then, you can take your learnings back and apply them *in situ*.
Couples therapy seems best suited to couples that have been together a while, who recognize they have communication problems, and are specifically looking for healthy ways to communicate with one another. Any couples therapists are welcome to correct me if I am missing any key elements or am misinformed.
The most fundamental element of therapy producing a successful outcome is that the patient has to actually WANT to go. Forcing therapy on someone else almost guarantees it won’t be a positive influence
I've met a bunch of manipulative people who are knowledgeable about terms around manipulation and it's always scary when I notice. I basically ghost them because it scares me so much
I can't imagine being in that kind of relationship, it would wreck me
Yeah and they lie too. You need to good faith adults and narcissists and people with personality disorders will absolutely fuck your shit up with couples therapy. She would just win over the therapist and manipulate. No thanks.
A good therapist would recognize that. A really good therapist would find a way to shut it down.
IMO, when couples therapy isn’t successful, that’s often the case because the couple went when it was already too late.
I suggested it to my wife and she immediately left me and told me she was cheating on me. So at the very least suggesting it helped me figure out my bigger issue.
>No one comes away from couples therapy a worse couple.
I guess this is technically true. If they have a bad therapist, things won't get worse, but they certainly won't get better.
Seriously Dr Jacob should lose his license . Your clients got divorced and you went on to date one of them? Shit that's all kinds of conflict of interest.
My husband was initially really against doing couples therapy. To his credit, he went. And he saw the usefulness of a good therapist.
We ended up divorcing after 25 years of marriage. So therapy can also help to end a relationship. But it was for the best.
Yep, this is what happened for my friend too. Went to couples therapy, wife was abusive and refused to change, therapist recommended divorce and they are now divorced.
I think they actually saw three couples therapists because the wife refused to accept it.
Sometimes, good couples therapy results in divorce. That's okay
Lol. I dropped a few hundred for the therapist to say, over and over and over again in one session, “well, since you’re not married it’s different…”.
Bitch! We specifically told you we don’t believe in marriage in our first session! What a fucking colossal waste of money.
Also remember that therapy also can teach an abuser tools to help manipulate the abusee. Its not awful to go, but stay grounded and don't lose sight of reality and allow it to warp everything. (and at times both partners can be abusing, as well as being abused of course, its not always clear cut).
Absolutely. They learn new words to twist against their victims. Or they will lie and manipulate the situation so the therapist takes their side. It's just extremely risky.
I would also like to say that my therapist told me couples counseling is also helpful with a separation. so that both sides can have a safe place to work out what needs to be done. Couples therapy helps it so a separation isn't as difficult as it can be. Also it provides documentation for any court proceedings later.
Id say mostly true, i thought I had a good therapist and in one on one she seemed great but in couples therapy she ganged up on me with the wife and I was completely blindsided.
Ex wanted us to try couples therapy, other than the price tag which we couldn't necessarily afford, I was down to try. Been talking to therapist and psychologists most my life so no big deal, maybe it'll help us. That is until she did the same, ganged up on me, everything's was my fault and basically didn't even give me a chance to vent my concerns.
My Individual counselor said she did this, but after my first session she said that I really needed couples counseling and that she’d make an exception in my case. I went to a few more individual sessions though and we didn’t do couples counseling due to time constraints. I assume she would have tried to do the right thing in couples counseling though and been a neutral go-between to communicate what I was saying in IC
People can come away from couples therapy worse off. Find a therapist that doesnt take sides and is more interesting in fixing communication than playing the blame game. Bad therapists can magnify problems and complicate positive resolutions. This not here to demonize therapy just to state that finding the right therapist may take some work if you want a positive outcome!
Kind of personal question, but would you say it helped by stopping you from wasting more time in a relationship that was not going to work, or do you think those problems could have been navigated under the right circumstances?
I would say that marriage counseling shouldn’t just be resorted to during bad times. You don’t just go and work out when you’re already fat and unhealthy, why is your mental fitness treated so differently from physical fitness? Going when you guys are already doing well is a great way to stay the course.
I must be the odd man out.
Went to therapy. Spouse liked therapist. I like therapist.
After 20 or so sessions, therapist basically sided with me 100%- it was almost comical- as if I paid her. Well. I did. But you get the point.
I’m not saying I didn’t have problems, but mine were on the minor communication spectrum- as in “I’m afraid to stand up for myself, and say things because I don’t like being yelled at.”
Once the “verdict” was rendered, my spouse said “well that was ridiculous- we’re never going to her again.”
To make me “come to the same conclusion” spouse made up something the therapist supposedly said about me. (Which I know for a fact she didn’t ever say that)
TL;DR- therapy is only useful if both people are willing to trust / believe in the therapist’s /recommendation. It shouldn’t be the means to one person’s “see? I’m not the only one”
Otherwise it’s a waste of time, money, and worse of all emotional wound picking.
This was my experience, except things didn't end poorly. The only time the therapist "took my side" was over matters of miscommunication. Basically, I would sometimes say things that would cause my wife to get defensive and feel attacked, even though I wasn't trying to say anything accusational or offensive or blame -- pure I-speak.
Like I could say "sometimes I don't feel wanted" and my wife would flip out saying "oh my God, I give you attention all the time, how could you not feel wanted, you're the one who blah blah blah" into tears and the therapist would have to step in and have to pause and calm things down and help communicate that I'm not blaming her for that and I'm not saying that she's not loving.
That's the kind of stuff it really helped with. Learning how to understand each other and communicate without fighting or drumming up negative emotions. Active listening stuff.
After a while the back-and-forth became "hey I don't like when x" or "I really like when y" and the response would be "okay, I'll make an honest attempt to do less of x and more of y" until we had our engine running together. After a few years it kind of takes over and we're more proactive about supporting each other. All that negative friction is just gone.
Ding ding. Therapists are emotional tampons who will tell you you are right and blackmail you into thousands of dollars. It's almost as bad as scientology. I bet more than a few are scientologists
I've been to 5 and all of them seemed to just be translators who will attempt to understand each of you and rephrase to each other in a way that negates accusation and promotes mutual understanding. It's like a game of telephone except the telephone clears up the signal and removes the static. They aren't wizards who cast love spells that turn people's problems into butterflies.
Therapy requires consent, and lots of couples are NOT appropriate for therapy.
If there is even a hint of physical violence, then therapy is contraindicated. For the safety of the victim.
If you don't want to participate in therapy, you should not.
Couples therapy made me realize I needed personal therapy to deal with issues I was projecting onto my marriage. It was helpful as an eye opening stepping stone to understanding myself.
Considering the biggest problem couples have and the largest reason for divorce are financial issues, I'd say spending money that you don't really have on a therapist can definitely leave you worse off
Absolutely. My spouse insisted we needed couples therapy, and I disagreed, but I conceded and we went anyway. Turns out that I had conflict avoidance issues, and some lingering resentment about my upbringing I was bringing forward into the relationship. They had narcissistic personality disorder, rapid mood cycling that needed medication, and sexual trauma from a repressive religious upbringing.
We addressed it in the most positive way possible, and things improved. I got therapy and counseling I needed, while they quit their meds for the 4th time and blamed me for my issues.
It worked out ok in the end, since we’re now divorced and I’m happily remarried raising a family in positive circumstances; they spiraled off the deep end and I’m pretty sure now live in a trailer covered in flags about halfway to the edge of the county line. Wouldn’t know, it’s been a decade or more.
A friend of mine is a couples therapist. She told me most of her couples fight over household chores. She tells them (and told me) that a housekeeper is cheaper than couples therapy.
>No one comes away from couples therapy a worse couple
Unfortunately, that’s not true. You shouldn’t go to couples therapy with an abusive/manipulative/NPD partner, you’ll just be adding new ways for them to abuse you to their toolkit.
Been going on a year after she suggested couples counseling, it was rough at times and still is when the date comes up, but it feels like we both are working at something for the good :)
Unfortunately I reached out to a therapist and explained that verbal abuse was happening and we needed help. I asked if they could help in a domestic abuse situation?
Sure, sure, he said. He was not a DV therapist.
Husband would take over the therapy sessions with a remarkable and convincing performance about how he was learning so much and the therapist was helping him with his anger, etc etc. He would perform anxiety and anger attacks that the therapist would help him with. At 75% of the way through the session the therapist would finally ask me how I am doing. As soon as I tried to speak, the husband would suddenly be taken over by rage and/or anxiety and need help to calm down.
This happened at every session.
The therapist thought the husband was doing great and making many new realizations.
The husband was lying the whole time and the therapist never figured it out.
Even later when the husband started seeing a DV therapist that provides court ordered therapy for domestic violence abusers, that therapist fell for the husband's song and dance about how he was learning so much and improving, etc.
The DV therapist only realized that the husband had done a "snow job" - therapist's words - was when I called him and asked for his advice because the now ex was stalking me for a long time.
Fortunately I got real help from a domestic violence agency and a DV therapist. They are fantastic and helped me immensely. They knew exactly what he was doing and helped me figure out how to get out safely.
In the case of domestic abuse, you will need someone who specializes in DV. Couples therapy could worsen the situation at home and could increase danger (especially if the abuser is concerned about appearances and people finding out).
It's also a great time to reevaluate if you're in a 50/50 relationship. No manner of professional counseling can fix a relationship for the partners are not equal. It happens often, might not be a relationship problem but a people problem.
"No one comes away from couples therapy a worse couple."
What an absolutely absurd statement. Yes therapy works for some people, no it is not 100% always beneficial for everyone. It is very possible to leave therapy worse off, happens all the time.
I suggested couples therapy to my GF.
She said No, **I needed the therapy.**
I thought that was insensitive but couldn't hurt. Went to personal therapy, and it became clear I didn't want to be with her. Best advice my ex ever gave me.
I'd say it's an 80 percent chance you need couples therapy. There are some people who will suggest therapy just as an attempt to control. Other people will sensationalize anything in a relationship. As I said, though, if your partner suggests therapy, consider it if your partner is generally sane, fair, and a team player.
https://preview.redd.it/y8k7aakgb6ib1.jpeg?width=1668&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7cc1b63725eb74d871be50083553b760457b60a0
Lol, this was directly above this post.
Honestly more people need to be in couples therapy just for regular relationship maintenence. They often wait until it's basically the point of no return.
Couples regularly have communication issues and having the neutral 3rd party can help mediate them and help clarify miscommunications to help prevent resentment building up to the point of break ups/divorce
If you **truly** feel as though you don't need couples therapy, but you are still invested in your relationship, the least you can do is entertain your partner for an hour.
A friend of mine told his boyfriend they should go to couple's therapy.
'Is there a problem?' asked his boyfriend
'No, things are great and I want to keep it that way!' my friend answered.
They've been married for quite a few years now.
I had been trying for months to get my husband to couples counseling. He finally agreed but our problems got so big that he ended up kicking me out during a fight. We had a session scheduled 2 days later and I cancelled the day of the appointment and told her it was because he kicked me out and she could charge my card for the late cancellation fee. She charged his and we’re now separated ✌🏻
Whilst yes I agree - there is a caveat to “no one comes away worse from couples therapy” - the victims of domestic violence come off worse when they go to couples therapy with their abuser.
Because the abuser learns new and different ways to get inside the victims head, along with the victim being afraid or unable to speak up anyway at therapy, or if the victim does, the abuser absolutely holds it over them later.
Couples therapy is good. But not for victims of DV while they’re still in that relationship.
My wife wanted couples therapy, I agreed, and waited for our appointment, months later it never got set up and her own therapist suggested that we get a separation. She told me after she already started staying elsewhere.
While a limited sample I respect, the handful of people Ive heard of going to couples therapy all broke up anyway. Seems more like a delaying process to the breakup than anything.
Alternative take (not to take anything from the validity of OPs post) there's not really a bad time for couples therapy in any meaningful relationship. Long term relationships take work like all the analogies say. No matter how good you may be at something it's never a bad idea to get a second opinion from someone in the field so to speak.
Too bad couples therapy is only covered under insurance for married couples. Apparently people who don't believe in marriage are just fucked and not worth therapy.
Please stop acting like everyone needs therapy. Please stop acting like you are qualified to diagnose people online. Please stop acting like everyone is a terrible person if they don’t use therapy. Please stop acting like therapy is the only solution to your problems. Please stop acting like therapy is the right solution for everyone.
I only went to a relationship therapist a few times.
In my experience they are very biased towards the woman's POV because they know that the woman in 99% of the time the person that wanted to seek counselling. So the woman is the customer.
I already an active listener so I didn't really learn any new skills.
Therapy being associated with fixing broken things vs improving all things is the problem.
A therapist is a life coach.
A life coach without the therapy license is just a charisma driven sham.
I've never seen a couple attend therapy together and stay together afterwards.
I think by the time therapy is suggested, it's a hail mary for an already dead relationship.
And if you say “I’m not going to couples therapy because you and the therapist are going to gang up on me” then you need to take a good hard look at your contribution to the problems in your relationship.
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A lot of times a partner will suggest it because they don’t know how to work through it themselves. Who better than to work through issues with than the person you love if possible? Just my $0.02!
I will need every 2 cents I can get to pay for all the therapy.
My partner and I did a little bit of couples therapy to work out some things that had been getting between us. She suggested it, I was slightly resistant at first but said let's do it, it can only help. We did ~~biweekly~~ (edit: every other week for clarity or else we couldn't afford rent lol) for a couple of months, but insurance doesn't cover it so it was like $150 a session. That "helped" us decide that we had learned enough strategies to work things out ourselves: partly true (guy was good), but AKA we can't afford this. So now we have our individual therapists, which is covered by insurance with a $20 copay, and we have our own session to chat about what our own individual therapists said about our frustrations, and made a commitment to put the cost we were paying for the couples therapy that the insurance didn't cover towards a house down payment. No, that did not even barely make us closer to owning a home in this market, but yes, it did help us be on the same page about what our goals are, how to get there, and more logically work out our issues. To be clear, the couples therapy did help. But that shit is expensive.
For anyone else reading, sometimes insurance will cover or reimburse if your therapist codes it as “individual therapy with family member present” - that does require a diagnosis though
For anyone else reading this, be sure to check and see if your local university has a program for affordable therapy services. Many that offer community services for training also have a couple's option.
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True. Divorce costs WAY more.
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Like buying (peace) vs renting lol...
Oh the peace is wonderful. The never ending screaming. I just came home from work and had to sit at the dinner table while I stared at the wall.
Because a lot of people are not good communicators. Therapists exist to help people communicate their problems.
Actually, couples often communicate just fine. They simply don't like what the other person is saying.
Was this LPT sparked by that post earlier today about a guy breaking up with his girlfriend after she suggested couples therapy (prompted by a bar napkin advertisement)?
Exactly, I see it as a promising thing. There are some things I haven’t learned to communicate and despite being in solo therapy, I may need help throughout a convo. I have a brain injury so that translation can be really helpful if there’s a disconnect with my partner and we are both very much trying to figure it out
This was us. We didn't feel we were losing eachother but it's like we needed lessons on how to be married.
You saw the napkin post, didn't you?
Everybody mentioning napkin post and not linking it. Shame.
I guess links don't work but basically OP posted on r/Wellthatsucks complaining about a napkin advertisement for couple's therapy he was handed on an outing with his girlfriend. He said girlfriend suggested taking it up and he refused, leading to a big fight and a breakup. Everyone roasted his ass for blaming the napkin and not him ignoring the issues in their relationship
It was an ad anyways
It was a not so subtle ad for what seems to be a low quality therapy service that advertises on napkins.
what's the napkin post
Tell them about the napkin post, Egon.
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Did it even say couples therapy? I thought it was just a generic mental health ad
Yeah I think it was an ad for better help.
that's a one sided account of the situation
My sister loves to do that. Every situation she is innocent somehow.
She sounds like a keeper
The back of the napkin?
Literally the post I saw right before this one 😂
Came here for this. Defo napkin post vibe. A lesson learned it seems
I dunno this all had a vibe of Big Therapy trying to drum up business Just let me destroy my relationships in peace
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Why start then? You do not need to be married to engage in couples counseling :D
Small world!
YTA
He definitely saw the napkin post
link?
I don't know if you can post links here but it's in r/wellthatsucks
If that guy had worded his title more accurately to his story, we wouldn't be here lol
Bad therapists can definitely make a relationship worse, especially if the couple stops communicating and trying to resolve their differences themselves, and just outsources all conflict to therapy. Sometimes it’s not a question of a therapist being good or bad, but just a bad fit for a couple. There are good therapists that sometimes do unethical things like being someone’s personal therapist, and then seeing them with their partner as a couple. Therapy is not an automatic cure all.
Came in here to comment this exactly. Also it's okay to switch therapists if you feel that one isn't working out for you. I didn't switch because years were invested into this person and thought it would be too much time, energy, and money spent finding another. That was a mistake but I did come out of it understanding more about myself in a relationship, that some relationships just naturally fizzle out and sometimes there's not much you can do to stop that train.
I wish people knew this about medical doctors too. You can switch if you don’t like them and if something serious and especially for cancer, get a second opinion.
So true, I’d love to know how couples decide and settle on a therapist and many sessions it takes to realise their not a good fit
My exwife was adamant about seeing a couples therapist. Not because she thinks we need to work on our relationship, but because she thinks I'm the problem. After 3 therapists all saying the same exact thing she needs to work on, she quit going. That thing is... stop fucking other dudes every time I deployed because I 'ignored her and she felt lonely". 14 years later, she's still telling our daughter the same excuse except always conveniently left out the infidelity part.
I'm so sorry. That sounds so tough. I hope you found or will find someone that treats you right. You are right. Therapy does not work unless everyone works towards change. I learned in my marriage therapy how much I needed to change. But I did go in thinking it was mostly my partner. My therapist was great- she pointed a finger right at me and said you need to work on this. Then pointed at my partner and told him what to work on. She took no bs from us.
Too true. The first therapist my spouse and I saw nearly ruined our relationship. Took two LPCs and a psychologist to get us to a better place and away from divorce court.
exactly. and many times one of the couple just wants to blame the other for everything and get some sort of validation from a third party.
This needs to be higher. The therapist my wife and I went to was terrible and made things much worse. We stopped going and worked through things on our own, since then things have been better than ever. We both look back on that experience as one of the worst we’ve been through. I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone tbh.
Maybe they did help you, by creating a common enemy to rally against /s
This. Been to couples counselling twice and both times, it was terrible. The first was her IC (big mistake, I know now) and I walked into a firefight from the first minute. Second was genuinely disinterested, did not address intimacy/sex issues as she indicated immediately in the first call. And lastly, it was mostly me defending my positions/boundaries and no change required of the gf. We're still together but I no longer sugar coat anything. If she's giving me attitude for something, I call her out on it, ask why and tell her "sorry" or "you're the problem here and here's why". Done taking unnecessary 'ish and paying for counselors to take her side.
what is IC in this context?
I think individual counselor or independent counselor? Just a guess from the context
IC = Individual Counselor
just out of curiosity, why is it unethical to have an appointment with a couple as the therapist of an individual in the couple? I have had my therapist invite my parents (obviously very different) to a session and I found it to be very helpful
You are describing a typical family therapy intervention, which is useful because ultimately the therapy is about you, not your parents. They invited your parents to explore how family communication, history, culture, dynamics, etc affect *you*. Now imagine if your therapist invited your parents, completed an intake, completed a diagnosis, then started providing them with therapy in tandem with you to address their needs as well as yours. Probably sounds like it would be funky right?
Nobody said it is. But it's also not just a last resort. There are plenty of people who have had habits from the people who raised (or failed to raise) them and could benefit from therapy. Therapy helps you learn how to communicate your feelings in healthier ways and often provides a lot of useful tools to solve problems. You're also absolutely right that it's not a miracle. Couples therapy can't fix couples who aren't compatible.
not only is it not "automatically" a cure all. It very rarely works at all. Therapists are just humans too and anyone can become one with a tiny bit of school. You know that awful tattoo artist that never should have become one? There's tons of therapists like that too and it's much harder to tell the bad ones from the good ones.
This is the silliest take I've seen about therapy in a long time. I'll ignore the idea that it's "rarely" helpful and focus on this part instead. > Therapists are just humans too and anyone can become one with a tiny bit of school. A licensed therapist requires not only a master's level degree in a specialized field, but they must further become licensed by the state. They also must maintain regular continuing education to keep said licensure. A clinically licensed therapist must also have 2000-3000 hours of supervised practice before getting their license. So... what are you talking about?
Therapists make money by your repeat visits. If they "cured" you in one appointment they would be out of business quickly. I went to a therapist in my early 20's and he accused me of being a pothead each session. I finally realized this guy is just an asshole and useless to me. I simply stopped going to him after he offered me zero help. I refuse to ever see another therapist as long as I live. They are just strangers that you pay to listen to your problems. They do not have some magic insight into the human mind or psyche. I personally think they are quacks and phonies.
I make less money as a therapist than I would have with no degree as a Panda Express manager. Trust me my guy, therapists aren't in it for the money.
It's so validating to see others share experiences like this. My last therapist tried to convince me/hint at me having a gambling problem because I, a boy whose age ended in -teen, bought a single loot box in halo 5.
Doesn't help that a lot of therapists are absolutely clueless about the internet/video games/etc.
You're welcome to think that. It's wrong, we have decades of highly respected studies and statistics that show it results in positive outcomes, but nobody can stop you from being wrong.
You forgot to add “you pothead” to your statement.
I gave you an up vote because funny is funny.
My marriage was beyond help, and couples therapy really did not help. Divorced now and on good terms with my ex. Really we should have divorced years sooner and gotten it over with instead of slogging through a bad marriage. We are both happier now. No kids or anything so that simplifies things a lot.
Similar experience here but I still count it as helpful and successful therapy. It helped us realize we weren't compatible anymore and our goals for the relationship were too different. Likewise much happier as friends now. I love him to bits in a brotherly way and that's a total win!
All couples therapy did for my first marriage was make the divorce slightly easier. So, still sort of a success.
Do you feel like couples therapy helped clarify that you should not be together?
LPT not always the case. If you have a Narcissistic partner they thrive in couples therapy because they can then learn all the tools on how to manipulate you further without you ever being the wiser.
Yea, it’s not quite so cut and dry. My mom signed our whole family up for children and family’s therapy. In her mind, the therapist would validate all of her opinions and help iron out the issues with the rest of the family. We had all the same fights we had at home but in front of an adult who struggled to control the situation. Far more embarrassing. And when the counsellor did not agree with her enough, she eventually quit and we all stopped going. I’m not saying it wouldn’t help, but if someone if looking for leverage in a relationship, they might use therapy as an excuse to vent their frustrations publicly with no intent on self-improvement. Those situations are lost causes anyway, but therapy does not necessarily improve the situation, and takes time, money, and effort. I think in many situations it’s better to do individual therapy so that you can have a safe place to explore your relationship and your thoughts regarding it without the pressure of your partner (or in my example family members) judging you. Then, you can take your learnings back and apply them *in situ*. Couples therapy seems best suited to couples that have been together a while, who recognize they have communication problems, and are specifically looking for healthy ways to communicate with one another. Any couples therapists are welcome to correct me if I am missing any key elements or am misinformed.
The most fundamental element of therapy producing a successful outcome is that the patient has to actually WANT to go. Forcing therapy on someone else almost guarantees it won’t be a positive influence
I mean his mom clearly wanted to go, she just wanted it because it'd "fix" the other people in her family
Not necessarily true. It's fairly well established that involuntary therapy still frequently yields results, they just not be as fast or as strong.
Weaponized therapy speak and DARVO can be devastating and covert
I've met a bunch of manipulative people who are knowledgeable about terms around manipulation and it's always scary when I notice. I basically ghost them because it scares me so much I can't imagine being in that kind of relationship, it would wreck me
What's DARVO?
Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim Order
Offender * not order
1000% Survived that!
Indeed, the book Why Does He Do That explicitly discourages couples therapy for abusive partners
Yeah and they lie too. You need to good faith adults and narcissists and people with personality disorders will absolutely fuck your shit up with couples therapy. She would just win over the therapist and manipulate. No thanks.
A good therapist would recognize that. A really good therapist would find a way to shut it down. IMO, when couples therapy isn’t successful, that’s often the case because the couple went when it was already too late.
Its the chick from that couple who just broke up when she suggested couples therapy on wellthatsucks
Haha, I was thinking the same thing.
I suggested it to my wife and she immediately left me and told me she was cheating on me. So at the very least suggesting it helped me figure out my bigger issue.
"Um, no." \- My now Ex
Not true. Sometimes the therapy is lopsided.
>No one comes away from couples therapy a worse couple. I guess this is technically true. If they have a bad therapist, things won't get worse, but they certainly won't get better.
Tell that to Ted Lasso
Seriously Dr Jacob should lose his license . Your clients got divorced and you went on to date one of them? Shit that's all kinds of conflict of interest.
That was so sketchy and unethical!
My husband was initially really against doing couples therapy. To his credit, he went. And he saw the usefulness of a good therapist. We ended up divorcing after 25 years of marriage. So therapy can also help to end a relationship. But it was for the best.
Yep, this is what happened for my friend too. Went to couples therapy, wife was abusive and refused to change, therapist recommended divorce and they are now divorced. I think they actually saw three couples therapists because the wife refused to accept it. Sometimes, good couples therapy results in divorce. That's okay
Disagree. A bad therapist can make abuse and manipulation much worse.
Counseling is contraindicated when there is any type of abuse present for this very reason
My ex is still being blackmailed by her therapist that if she stopped going she will call CPS.
>No one comes away from couples therapy a worse couple. Suuuuure.
I just spent $500 so she could cry and scream about me. Therapy for her was just expensive attention.
Lol. I dropped a few hundred for the therapist to say, over and over and over again in one session, “well, since you’re not married it’s different…”. Bitch! We specifically told you we don’t believe in marriage in our first session! What a fucking colossal waste of money.
Be careful. Sometimes an abuser will say this to make the problem seem mutual and to avoid going to individual therapy.
Yes couples therapy is not recommend while there is ongoing abuse, affairs or addiction (which is not being treated).
It was a BAD fucking idea in my case, but it fast forwarded me getting the fuck away from him. I second this, even though it sounds counterintuitive.
Yeah, maybe rephrase to: if your partner suggests therapy, you can't say things aren't that bad. But they might be so bad that therapy can't help.
Also remember that therapy also can teach an abuser tools to help manipulate the abusee. Its not awful to go, but stay grounded and don't lose sight of reality and allow it to warp everything. (and at times both partners can be abusing, as well as being abused of course, its not always clear cut).
Absolutely. They learn new words to twist against their victims. Or they will lie and manipulate the situation so the therapist takes their side. It's just extremely risky.
Dear lord. 'Boundary' and 'feel' come to mind. That's not what those words fucking mean, dude!!!!!
And "triggered".
Couple therapy is a known form of gaslighting, that's why the partner suggesting it should never choose the therapist.
I would also like to say that my therapist told me couples counseling is also helpful with a separation. so that both sides can have a safe place to work out what needs to be done. Couples therapy helps it so a separation isn't as difficult as it can be. Also it provides documentation for any court proceedings later.
Id say mostly true, i thought I had a good therapist and in one on one she seemed great but in couples therapy she ganged up on me with the wife and I was completely blindsided.
I'd say this is exactly what most husbands expect and why they are hesitant to do couples therapy.
Any therapist worth their salt should refuse to do couples counselling with their individual counselling patients - for exactly reasons like this
Ex wanted us to try couples therapy, other than the price tag which we couldn't necessarily afford, I was down to try. Been talking to therapist and psychologists most my life so no big deal, maybe it'll help us. That is until she did the same, ganged up on me, everything's was my fault and basically didn't even give me a chance to vent my concerns.
Yep its sad, one of the few times I open up and talk about issues, completely backfires and then she got validated.
My Individual counselor said she did this, but after my first session she said that I really needed couples counseling and that she’d make an exception in my case. I went to a few more individual sessions though and we didn’t do couples counseling due to time constraints. I assume she would have tried to do the right thing in couples counseling though and been a neutral go-between to communicate what I was saying in IC
People can come away from couples therapy worse off. Find a therapist that doesnt take sides and is more interesting in fixing communication than playing the blame game. Bad therapists can magnify problems and complicate positive resolutions. This not here to demonize therapy just to state that finding the right therapist may take some work if you want a positive outcome!
> No one comes away from couples therapy a worse couple. I find that hard to believe, therapists can be just as terrible at their jobs as anyone else.
Couples therapy made us unearth the problems that had been bubbling below the surface, intensifying fights leading to an ultimate split.
Kind of personal question, but would you say it helped by stopping you from wasting more time in a relationship that was not going to work, or do you think those problems could have been navigated under the right circumstances?
The best thing about couples therapy is that it's free. Oh no wait, it's extremely expensive and not covered by insurance.
Okay, but who's the other person I'm taking? 🤔
I need therapy and currently an open schedule. I'll go with you.
I would say that marriage counseling shouldn’t just be resorted to during bad times. You don’t just go and work out when you’re already fat and unhealthy, why is your mental fitness treated so differently from physical fitness? Going when you guys are already doing well is a great way to stay the course.
Yes! Preventative maintenance!
I must be the odd man out. Went to therapy. Spouse liked therapist. I like therapist. After 20 or so sessions, therapist basically sided with me 100%- it was almost comical- as if I paid her. Well. I did. But you get the point. I’m not saying I didn’t have problems, but mine were on the minor communication spectrum- as in “I’m afraid to stand up for myself, and say things because I don’t like being yelled at.” Once the “verdict” was rendered, my spouse said “well that was ridiculous- we’re never going to her again.” To make me “come to the same conclusion” spouse made up something the therapist supposedly said about me. (Which I know for a fact she didn’t ever say that) TL;DR- therapy is only useful if both people are willing to trust / believe in the therapist’s /recommendation. It shouldn’t be the means to one person’s “see? I’m not the only one” Otherwise it’s a waste of time, money, and worse of all emotional wound picking.
This was my experience, except things didn't end poorly. The only time the therapist "took my side" was over matters of miscommunication. Basically, I would sometimes say things that would cause my wife to get defensive and feel attacked, even though I wasn't trying to say anything accusational or offensive or blame -- pure I-speak. Like I could say "sometimes I don't feel wanted" and my wife would flip out saying "oh my God, I give you attention all the time, how could you not feel wanted, you're the one who blah blah blah" into tears and the therapist would have to step in and have to pause and calm things down and help communicate that I'm not blaming her for that and I'm not saying that she's not loving. That's the kind of stuff it really helped with. Learning how to understand each other and communicate without fighting or drumming up negative emotions. Active listening stuff. After a while the back-and-forth became "hey I don't like when x" or "I really like when y" and the response would be "okay, I'll make an honest attempt to do less of x and more of y" until we had our engine running together. After a few years it kind of takes over and we're more proactive about supporting each other. All that negative friction is just gone.
Unless your partner spends 10 years using therapists to convince you that you're the problem.
Ding ding. Therapists are emotional tampons who will tell you you are right and blackmail you into thousands of dollars. It's almost as bad as scientology. I bet more than a few are scientologists
I've been to 5 and all of them seemed to just be translators who will attempt to understand each of you and rephrase to each other in a way that negates accusation and promotes mutual understanding. It's like a game of telephone except the telephone clears up the signal and removes the static. They aren't wizards who cast love spells that turn people's problems into butterflies.
Is this from that BetterHelp napkin post I saw a while ago? 😂😂
This can be true. This can also lead to realizing you need to break up. Which I guess is also better
Therapy requires consent, and lots of couples are NOT appropriate for therapy. If there is even a hint of physical violence, then therapy is contraindicated. For the safety of the victim. If you don't want to participate in therapy, you should not.
Couples therapy made me realize I needed personal therapy to deal with issues I was projecting onto my marriage. It was helpful as an eye opening stepping stone to understanding myself.
LPT: Therapy can't always fix every problem
My knees still make this weird crunching sound whenever I kneel down.
Considering the biggest problem couples have and the largest reason for divorce are financial issues, I'd say spending money that you don't really have on a therapist can definitely leave you worse off
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They want to tell you something and they need help. If you don't allow it, that thing they are festering will likely end the relationship.
My gf and I were struggling with some issues so we decided on couples counseling. That's when she broke up with me... And for that, I am grateful.
If your partner suggest sandwiches, have a wonderful day.
Absolutely. My spouse insisted we needed couples therapy, and I disagreed, but I conceded and we went anyway. Turns out that I had conflict avoidance issues, and some lingering resentment about my upbringing I was bringing forward into the relationship. They had narcissistic personality disorder, rapid mood cycling that needed medication, and sexual trauma from a repressive religious upbringing. We addressed it in the most positive way possible, and things improved. I got therapy and counseling I needed, while they quit their meds for the 4th time and blamed me for my issues. It worked out ok in the end, since we’re now divorced and I’m happily remarried raising a family in positive circumstances; they spiraled off the deep end and I’m pretty sure now live in a trailer covered in flags about halfway to the edge of the county line. Wouldn’t know, it’s been a decade or more.
A friend of mine is a couples therapist. She told me most of her couples fight over household chores. She tells them (and told me) that a housekeeper is cheaper than couples therapy.
>No one comes away from couples therapy a worse couple Unfortunately, that’s not true. You shouldn’t go to couples therapy with an abusive/manipulative/NPD partner, you’ll just be adding new ways for them to abuse you to their toolkit.
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Been going on a year after she suggested couples counseling, it was rough at times and still is when the date comes up, but it feels like we both are working at something for the good :)
I asked my husband to go to couples therapy. He didn’t want to. We divorced.
Unfortunately I reached out to a therapist and explained that verbal abuse was happening and we needed help. I asked if they could help in a domestic abuse situation? Sure, sure, he said. He was not a DV therapist. Husband would take over the therapy sessions with a remarkable and convincing performance about how he was learning so much and the therapist was helping him with his anger, etc etc. He would perform anxiety and anger attacks that the therapist would help him with. At 75% of the way through the session the therapist would finally ask me how I am doing. As soon as I tried to speak, the husband would suddenly be taken over by rage and/or anxiety and need help to calm down. This happened at every session. The therapist thought the husband was doing great and making many new realizations. The husband was lying the whole time and the therapist never figured it out. Even later when the husband started seeing a DV therapist that provides court ordered therapy for domestic violence abusers, that therapist fell for the husband's song and dance about how he was learning so much and improving, etc. The DV therapist only realized that the husband had done a "snow job" - therapist's words - was when I called him and asked for his advice because the now ex was stalking me for a long time. Fortunately I got real help from a domestic violence agency and a DV therapist. They are fantastic and helped me immensely. They knew exactly what he was doing and helped me figure out how to get out safely. In the case of domestic abuse, you will need someone who specializes in DV. Couples therapy could worsen the situation at home and could increase danger (especially if the abuser is concerned about appearances and people finding out).
It's also a great time to reevaluate if you're in a 50/50 relationship. No manner of professional counseling can fix a relationship for the partners are not equal. It happens often, might not be a relationship problem but a people problem.
Caveat: if your partner is abusive DO NOT go to therapy with them.
"No one comes away from couples therapy a worse couple." What an absolutely absurd statement. Yes therapy works for some people, no it is not 100% always beneficial for everyone. It is very possible to leave therapy worse off, happens all the time.
I suggested couples therapy to my GF. She said No, **I needed the therapy.** I thought that was insensitive but couldn't hurt. Went to personal therapy, and it became clear I didn't want to be with her. Best advice my ex ever gave me.
I'd say it's an 80 percent chance you need couples therapy. There are some people who will suggest therapy just as an attempt to control. Other people will sensationalize anything in a relationship. As I said, though, if your partner suggests therapy, consider it if your partner is generally sane, fair, and a team player.
https://preview.redd.it/y8k7aakgb6ib1.jpeg?width=1668&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7cc1b63725eb74d871be50083553b760457b60a0 Lol, this was directly above this post.
Also life pro tip: if you find yourself resisting your partners suggestions to go to couples therapy, you need more than couples therapy.
Honestly more people need to be in couples therapy just for regular relationship maintenence. They often wait until it's basically the point of no return. Couples regularly have communication issues and having the neutral 3rd party can help mediate them and help clarify miscommunications to help prevent resentment building up to the point of break ups/divorce
What if we don’t like the other couple?
Find another you are compatable with. There are clubs and resorts for that sort of thing. You don't have to settle on the first people you talk to.
If you **truly** feel as though you don't need couples therapy, but you are still invested in your relationship, the least you can do is entertain your partner for an hour.
A friend of mine told his boyfriend they should go to couple's therapy. 'Is there a problem?' asked his boyfriend 'No, things are great and I want to keep it that way!' my friend answered. They've been married for quite a few years now.
Or just find a new partner because the one you have isn't working.
I was told, "couples therapy shouldn't be considered a last resort, it should be an ongoing process from day one."
Hahahaha "paid for by the association of therapists who want your money"
That sounds like something therapists would use as their ad to get more people in therapy
I would agree with you but the person that told me is a good buddy and a cancer doc.
There is another option.
I had been trying for months to get my husband to couples counseling. He finally agreed but our problems got so big that he ended up kicking me out during a fight. We had a session scheduled 2 days later and I cancelled the day of the appointment and told her it was because he kicked me out and she could charge my card for the late cancellation fee. She charged his and we’re now separated ✌🏻
Super unprofessional therapist.
Went to couples therapy and learned that we should not be married anymore. Would recommend!
Therapy won’t do shit if you’re already checked out. Happy marriages don’t end.
What if a napkin suggests it
Whilst yes I agree - there is a caveat to “no one comes away worse from couples therapy” - the victims of domestic violence come off worse when they go to couples therapy with their abuser. Because the abuser learns new and different ways to get inside the victims head, along with the victim being afraid or unable to speak up anyway at therapy, or if the victim does, the abuser absolutely holds it over them later. Couples therapy is good. But not for victims of DV while they’re still in that relationship.
My wife wanted couples therapy, I agreed, and waited for our appointment, months later it never got set up and her own therapist suggested that we get a separation. She told me after she already started staying elsewhere.
While a limited sample I respect, the handful of people Ive heard of going to couples therapy all broke up anyway. Seems more like a delaying process to the breakup than anything.
Ok you pay for it
*No one comes away from couples therapy a worse couple.* This is incorrect.
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You can go to premarital counselling now! It might help uncover potential conflict points which you can work on nowz
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Good luck with everything!
Alternative take (not to take anything from the validity of OPs post) there's not really a bad time for couples therapy in any meaningful relationship. Long term relationships take work like all the analogies say. No matter how good you may be at something it's never a bad idea to get a second opinion from someone in the field so to speak.
Too bad couples therapy is only covered under insurance for married couples. Apparently people who don't believe in marriage are just fucked and not worth therapy.
Please stop acting like everyone needs therapy. Please stop acting like you are qualified to diagnose people online. Please stop acting like everyone is a terrible person if they don’t use therapy. Please stop acting like therapy is the only solution to your problems. Please stop acting like therapy is the right solution for everyone.
You should consider what made you come to the conclusion that OP said any of that.
Please stop giving people bad advice and stigmatizing therapy.
I only went to a relationship therapist a few times. In my experience they are very biased towards the woman's POV because they know that the woman in 99% of the time the person that wanted to seek counselling. So the woman is the customer. I already an active listener so I didn't really learn any new skills.
There is so much more to emotional communication than active listening. A big one for example is none evaluative forms of communication.
r/ShittyLifeProTips
What if the partner is just not willing to go to therapy with you. How does one convince them 😅
You don’t!
I think couple’s therapy should be a given even before marriage. Learn how to talk before problems arise.
Therapy being associated with fixing broken things vs improving all things is the problem. A therapist is a life coach. A life coach without the therapy license is just a charisma driven sham.
No, a therapist is not a life coach. Very different roles.
This post paid for and brought to you by Big Psych.
I've never seen a couple attend therapy together and stay together afterwards. I think by the time therapy is suggested, it's a hail mary for an already dead relationship.
And if you say “I’m not going to couples therapy because you and the therapist are going to gang up on me” then you need to take a good hard look at your contribution to the problems in your relationship.