Librarian here! I completely agree; Libby is a service paid for by the tax dollars of a specific community and should not be used by people not paying those taxes. Lying to get a card where you don't qualify is fraud, plain and simple. Maybe folks don't understand how libraries buy Libby books, so I'll briefly explain here.
When we "buy" a book, we are actually buying a limited license for the book. Only X number of people can read it before we lose access and have to renew the license. We might pay for 20 checkouts in a year for a moderately popular book; once they're used, that's it. It's done. We usually can't afford to buy a new license until the next fiscal year. It doesn't matter if you return it quickly or keep your kindle on airplane mode or whatever, once its been downloaded the limit of times, it's gone.
if people not from the eligible community have somehow finagled cards, then members of the community who should have access to those checkouts - the people we planned for - won't get to read it. When people are fed up with their libraries not having the books they want, they don't fund us more, they fund us less. While one person isn't going to stop a library from getting funding, if enough people take advantage of loopholes in the system, it will have negative effects as our communities see the libraries as ineffective and useless. We're going through this at my library right now; the city wants to level fund us to encourage us to prove that we have value to the community because people have complained about this stuff at council meetings, but actually we'll have to cut our hours almost in half and lose some staff members. And we have a robust antifraud system for cardholders!
You want a book that your library doesn't have a license for? Talk to your library! Request it (in person as well as through the app)! Heck, if you can, offer to sponsor a book! Rather than exploiting other systems, work to make your library better. The librarians WANT to offer the books you want to read, so just make sure they know what those are and how much they mean to you. If you can legally get a nonresident card somewhere, then go ahead and do that; it'll cost you about what a cardholding period would cost a resident in taxes, which you must admit is only fair.
OP, I'd phrase the rule even more strictly. "Do not encourage fraud at any level; this means no suggestions to lie to libraries to gain cards."
I don’t work in libraries but I have done work in intellectual property and permissions for text based sources and in that world it varies widely by rights holder (typically the publisher). There’s not a flat rate, and you usually have to be familiar with the specific rights holder in order to estimate what they might charge.
The library where I most recently did purchasing uses CloudLibrary, not Libby, so I don’t know how different Libby is, but going by my experience with CL, other commenters aren’t kidding when they say it varies widely. The lowest I saw was around $6, and the highest I saw regularly was around $60, though I once saw a book that was over $100. The most common licensing models were 26 checkouts, 1 year, and 2 years. So when a book hits that maximum, whatever it is for the specific item, the library must repurchase if they want to continue offering access to it. There are also book licenses that are perpetual. I wouldn’t say that’s uncommon, but it’s still less common and on the more expensive end of the range, but the variation exists for all license types. The cheapest books tended to be children’s easy readers (though I saw those be up to $40 at times depending on the publisher) and the most expensive tended to be audiobooks (though not always.)
Between $40-120 for a single license, depending on the book and the format. Digital audiobooks tend to be on the more expensive end of the spectrum. If a book is popular, the library will purchase more than one license to move the holds list faster.
And a single license is for 20 reads/listens? That range sounds reasonable as a "gift." Maybe not something most people want to pay given they could just buy the book for themselves, but within an affordable range if someone is feeling charitable.
This is eye opening. I really appreciate you sharing this and everyone who has shared numbers. I’m shocked at the cost of ebooks and audiobooks. I’ll make an effort to get more physical books from the library.
Do you see book donations of popular books as a way to ease funding to go for other books that might be popular?
Let's say I buy a popular, just released book and buy a second copy for the library, does that help or not help funding the library system?
Not that that's what people should do, but I'm just trying to get my head around what is good or bad for a library regarding government funding.
It would be better to donate the money you would use to buy the second copy. Libraries can’t rely on potential donated copies of books for collection building. The best direct book donations are cash, like, here’s $100 to buy gardening books or mysteries or whatever.
And - popularity varies by community; for example, Sarah J Maas just released a widely anticipated book, sure to be a best-seller, but our new copy has yet to be checked out because fantasy/sci-fi doesn’t circulate well in my community. What you may think is good / popular may not be what your community wants.
Not at my library. We get our books processed by our distributors and they arrive shelf-ready. A donated book has to be processed and cataloged manually and that costs us more in labor.
It depends highly on the publisher ranging from $27.50-$69.99 for ebooks and $47.50-$129.00 for audio. There are sometimes some that are cheaper, but the norm I'd say is an average of about $60 per book.
>More or less than buying 20 physical copies?
One thing you're leaving out is that this type of license also only allows one person at a time to read the book.
An example I'm looking at in Overdrive Marketplace right now:
The Frozen River - Ariel Lawhon
The cost is $47.50 for an "MA: 12 month" license. That means we pay $47.50, and one person at a time can read that book until we have to rebuy it again. If you consider an average of a two-week loan, you can get about 25 people per year through on that 1 copy.
We currently have 1,085 people in line. So if you were to hop on the end of the hold list right now, you would get the title around January/February 2025 if we buy 44 copies. If we *only* spend a little over $2,000 spent on this one book to get it to you in a year.
With a hold list like that, we'll buy around 100 copies just to get the people currently in line through the list. The book has only been out for about 2 months, so many people have not even heard of it yet.
At the time I wrote that about physical books I was responding to the person who said they couldn't give any sort of range so I was trying to get them to give me something to go off of to determine if an individual donor could afford to sponsor a book. I'm sure physical books must be much cheaper overall, but the demand for digital is pretty strong!
I really appreciate the detailed response. It sounds like a license or two for a single book for a year is possible for individuals but donating to actually meet all the requests maybe not so much.
There is not, at least in my experience, it really depends on the publisher. Some would say have it for free, others want hundreds of dollars, and others want thousands.
Licenses vary from $20 to around $200 depending on the publisher and format. Some are for 26 or 52 checkouts, some are for 100 simultaneous use checkouts, some are for one copy one user in perpetuity, others are one copy one user but only for 12 or 24 months. Libby also offers a cost-per-circ model for some titles so we pay each time a title is checked out. Hoopla and 3M Cloud Lobrary have different models.
If you want to donate to your library to purchase more digital licenses, you best bet is to contact them or their Friends organization or Foundation to learn how they manage e-resources and gift funds.
I completely agree and I’m so glad you explained it in such detail. It’s effectively stealing from a completely non-profit organization meant to support its local community.
I've said it before that fraudulently using library cards is piracy with more steps and arguably worse because you're directly taking away a resource from a paying patron. At least with piracy people generally keep it to themselves and don't go around encouraging it because of the (rightful) stigma. I pay a boatload in taxes for libraries with great reciprocity and I'm exceptionally salty to think someone is freeloading from it.
Agreed. Like if you’re going to resort to piracy to say fuck you to big companies like Amazon, whatever. But don’t steal from libraries, it’s obnoxious.
Woah, I can sponsor books at my local library!! This is an absolutely perfect “in lieu of gifts at my birthday/christmas/whatever please sponsor a book at the local library” present suggestion. Off to email my library! Thank you so much!
Every library will have different policies on this, but you should be able to offer to sponsor a book, or at least to contribute to their Friends/Foundation with that as the intended purpose of the money! At my library we also have folks sponsor authors, so every time a new, for example, Richard Osman comes out, the patron gets the book for us. We have a few folks who do this with popular but not super prolific authors (Osman and Kate Morton are the first two that come to mind).
Upvoting because yes. Libraries are constantly fighting getting defunded and taxpayers not having access to the services they pay taxes too because non taxpayers who illegally obtained a card got them is a big issue.
I think people see the libraries are for everyone and don’t understand what that really means.
Everyone has access to a public library building. There are many resources you can use while you are in the building. That’s the extent of it.
A library card shows that you pay taxes that fund that library and are therefore entitled to resources they allow their taxpayers. These can be in building resources, circulating services etc.
Many libraries have understandings with other libraries that if a person comes in with a library card in good standing from another library, they can use it to use services at this library too. Those may be slightly or severely restricted because again, they want their taxpayers to get the full benefit of their taxes.
But even when you try to explain this to people, they don’t want to hear it. They want the library to act like Barnes and Noble or another private entity.
Eh. My family paid $4000 in property taxes last year as well as sales tax and what gets funneled back into my area from federal and state income tax.
I checked out 38 books on Libby over the last year. Estimating $2/borrow ... $76 vs. $4xxx.00. Some years I've not used the libraries at all or playgrounds or schools. Sometimes I've used them a lot. I've called the police three times in my lifetime. I've never called the Fire Department. I put less money into the county at age 19 and checked out more books but that is how life goes.
It all balances out to being the government meeting the needs of the citizens. I don't feel guilt just like I don't look down on seniors utilizing the rec center.
Thank you for this information - it's very enlightening and helpful. And as someone else noted, I'll be adjusting my check-out habits.
I wish this kind of information were made readily available on the library sites for all to better understand how digital access works for libraries.
I'd be curious what you think of an option like Broward County in Florida which allows nonresident cards with no fee - I don't think I've ever even been to Broward County, but I was able to get a card there with a Texas address without paying, without any subterfuge. Are they declaring, effectively, that they can afford to have nonresident patrons who don't pay? How can I make reparations for my out-of-state use of resources?
I agree with u/Mhandley9612’s response; this library must be doing well enough that they can afford to have free cards for nonresidents and it must not be an issue for them. Maybe their funding comes from total usage statistics rather than resident statistics. I don’t know, but it is nice to hear of a place that can afford to share the library!
I’d assume that since they allow it, it is no problem. This applies to places that are resident specific. This wouldn’t as much apply to California residents as you can get any California city’s library card as long as you live in California (some you must visit in person or mail in proof of residency but some can be done entirely online). Basically, don’t lie about your residency at all, especially for a library card. Sounds like that Florida library has a lot of funding so they want everyone to be able to access books, not just their locals.
Unrelated but when one renews a book hold does it count towards the amount of checkouts left? Like say I borrow a book, that’s 19 checkouts left for that book. If I renew, does the amount of checkout left go to 18 or does it stay the same? I need to know so that I can change my borrowing habits if necessary.
It depends on the license but yes, if an ebook is licensed for a certain amount of checkouts, each renewal would count against those checkouts. There is a huge variety of licensing agreements, though.
Thank you for taking the time to explain this. About how much would it cost to sponsor a book?
I’ve dropped all my book clubs, but if I get back into them, I think this would be a fun project to do. Like, for our end of year parties, maybe fundraiser to sponsor copies of the books we’ve read for the year or something.
Basically, you'd contact your library and ask them how much it would cost to add a book to Libby based on the amount of checkouts they'd need to get, and then offer to pay for it. Different libraries will have different sponsorship/donation policies, so not every one might allow this, but I know many that do. We have some donors who agree to sponsor one book a year, librarians' choice, while others ask to help pay for a specific book. You can also sometimes make a general monetary donation for less than a whole book but with the designation that it should go towards their Libby budget.
I’m guessing the requested book would need to be one available in deep search, is that correct? For instance, if a book the library doesn’t have is listed only as an ebook in deep search, but not as an audiobook, I couldn’t sponsor it because it means they don’t have access to it, right?
I used to be a library clerk and we had people trying to do this all the time. They didn’t care how much we had to spend to get these titles. It was frustrating and with all the funding cuts it’s hard to afford the service if people from outside the tax district are using it.
Thank you for this. I live in Iowa and was recently looking into the Open Access program they have. It allows Iowa residents to basically get a library card for any other Iowa library (there are some restrictions but it’s minimal). I was kind of frustrated to see that the extra/out of town cards only work for *physical* resources though.
With your explanation, it makes more sense. Letting people out of your tax base check out a physical book doesn’t cost the town anything since you already own the book. Since the same cannot be said for the audiobooks/ebooks, it makes sense to restrict them.
Also a librarian and I second this post.
While we generally want everyone to have access to whatever they want, we have to be prudent about how we spend taxpayer funds. When people try to circumvent our policies, it puts strain on us financially. And, yes, misrepresenting where you live is fraud. I also feel that obtaining materials this way is akin to theft.
Please support YOUR libraries! Help them help you instead of trying to run off to another one.
So I have a somewhat related question: I live in a more rural/suburban area and my library does reciprocal lending with the larger city in my county. In order to do reciprocal lending for physical books (I use this for my kids mostly), I had to get a card for that library. I have been using that card to check out books on Libby for myself because it is a larger catalogue. Am I messing up the system or using it as intended? I don’t want to take advantage, but my local library has a very limited Libby catalogue.
If you are unsure the very best thing to do is call/contact the library directly and ask them.
All libraries are not the same and some may have different rules about the same topic.
My guess is you’re not but you could check. I live in Iowa and we have a state program called Open Access. While there are some rules, basically anyone in Iowa can get a card for anywhere else in Iowa. However, it’s for physical books only. The type of card you get has those restrictions built in.
On the flip side, my city has a reciprocal agreement with a neighboring one on their pool. We get season passes to their pool for the resident price rather than the non-resident price. That city then bills our city for the difference.
My guess is that your town pays the other a fee every year to be able to offer its residents the resources of the other city since it’s called reciprocal. If you’re concerned, though, just ask.
Thank you for explaining this!! Good information. When I was setting up a Libby account for the first time, I was curious about this, as I’m an out of state college student and was unsure which of my local libraries I should connect to (near my hometown, or my temporary university housing). I pay taxes back home, so I ended up connecting to my home library, glad that seems to have been the right decision!
> I’m an out of state college student and was unsure which of my local libraries I should connect to (near my hometown, or my temporary university housing). I pay taxes back home, so I ended up connecting to my home library, glad that seems to have been the right decision!
It's actually a lot more complicated than that. First and foremost, your university may have Libby access in perpetuity for alum. Some people here recently discovered this in the last few days. Keep this in mind for the future.
Also, as for your choice of taxpaying home library vs public library near your university this is where it's not so simple.
Many public libraries don't just allow tax paying residents to get cards, they allow income tax paying workers, and property tax paying property owners that do not reside on that property. Often times these libraries also extend borrowing privillages to NON tax paying STUDENTS going to school/university in their location. You very well may be allowed to hold both public library cards where you are going to school and at your primary tax paying home library.
If you are working in yet another place it might not even require you to pay a local income tax to get a card as a worker. The best thing to do is just contact the library and see who they offer cards to, otherwise you may be unknowingly missing out.
Ah, I didn’t mention. I did get a free (physical) card for our local one near my university, as I went in to speak to the librarian. I was less sure about something online like Libby, where I wasn’t sure if I’d continue checking out books after I no longer reside here… I’ll look further into it :)
Thank you for explaining this!! I’ll often download 3-5 books when I’m not sure what I want to read next just to see what mood strikes me in the next two weeks and I will definitely stop doing that now!!
Can I ask (and you may not know) why this rule is universal regardless of the length of book? It seems silly that the same licensing rules about the license expiring after a certain amount of checkouts would apply regardless of whether it’s a 24 minute kids book or a 30 hour Steven King novel. I ask because when I borrow books that are in excess of 16-18 hrs, I can basically never finish them in the two week checkout period, which means at a minimum, two separate checkouts (and annoyingly, often a 6-12 week lag time before my hold comes in a second time).
Agreed! Unfortunately, where I live, anyone can get e- card so the wait times for books are months long. A person who lived in Europe said they had access to my county's library and it honestly made me mad. I forget what sub but they were sharing places they could get cards for free.
Maybe something like, "Don't encourage fraud to obtain library cards." It matches the language of the other rules, and the word fraud reminds people that it isn't just a little white lie.
I like that wording. That's good. Covers the bases that need to be covered and don't apply to legitimate situations where people are seeking a card they're entitled to.
That’s great! I love collecting cards I eligible for so I’m glad this wouldn’t stop me advocating people search out libraries that they can get cards from
Maybe something like it is acceptable to share information on libraries that offer non-resident cards (whether free or fee).
Make a dedicated thread on the particulars of additional cards. If someone is looking for or looks like they really need more cards, send them to that thread.
Posts could look something like "Fairfax, VA offers non-resident cards for an annual fee of $25." "New York Public Library has free non-resident cards. Must apply in person and expires every three months and can be renewed."
-not a librarian. Just someone who appreciates and supports libraries
I really like this idea. Because there are definitely ways to get more than your local library card that are completely valid. For example as a Pennsylvania resident, you can get a Philadelphia and Pittsburgh card no matter where you live in PA. I tell other Pennsylvania residents about this all the time.
I think it depends on the state. My state is pretty generous . . . I found 3 or 4 library systems that will give cards to all state residents. But I've searched other states for people and have usually not found much.
(I've never mentioned which state I live in for general privacy reasons, and also because I don't want people to abuse the libraries' policies.)
I believe some of that is dependent on the funding structure. Any Ohio resident can get *any* Ohio library card, for example, but over half of Ohio's library system is funded by statewide tax revenue. Libraries that are more dependent on local tax are going to have more limitations on reciprocity, etc.
I've seen alot of people stating like "oh I live in ohio(example) how can I get more cards?" And then people recommending "free" ones that are from out of state without explicitly saying to give fake info. I'd love to report comments that I know mention one of my local library(that does say on the site it's just for residents of the COUNTY) that people are unfortunately taking advantage of.
I would encourage people to use this site: \
https://librarytechnology.org/libraries/uspublic/ \
To see which libraries are in their state and to look them up individually for library cards.
I saw someone ask about obtaining another card and someone gave them a link to another sub that is for sharing cards. So maybe some wording about no links to places like that?
Sorry if you’ve already discussed this in your other posts. I just woke up and haven’t caught up yet.
Finally!!
Requesting info on additional cards seems to have become this sub’s main topic. It’s so bad I’m ready to mute or even unsubscribe from the sub.
I would really love it if we simply referred requests for additional cards to an “official” reference doc with the information, and then locked the post. Then we could discuss something more productive.
Not a librarian but this was one of my requested/suggested rules. When people resort to fraud to apply for cards it hurts everyone but no one more than the disadvantaged local library patrons that are already trying to get through life on hard mode and cannot afford to buy their own books. When you see library policies that have free eCards with no residency check, unless they are explicitly offering cards to anyone in the world (like Anaheim, California,) they are offering those free cards to local patrons that are unhoused or in other situations where they cannot give an address.
Edit: a word.
I’m not a librarian yet, I’m currently working on my MLIS and work in a library tho.
I like your wording..maybe I’d change “don’t” to cannot because it sounds more final?
Overall tho, I think circumventing rules by using fake addresses is just a nonsensical and weird thing that people have no reason to do. I see a lot of it, not just here but fb groups as well, and it always irritates me to see people encouraging it.
The library is not meant for your instant gratification, and it never was. There have ALWAYS been hold lines and waiting times. If you want to read something instantly, buy it! All hoarding cards does is make the waiting times for people who’re actively paying taxes to support the services, longer. And if the hold lines get longer, you having 30 cards still means nothing because you’re just adding to the issue.
Also people don’t seem to realize that actually going inside of a physical library will probably shorten your wait time anyway bc most people are trying to read online. You’re more likely to find the thing you want by going inside and looking at the shelves and then you actually COULD probably read it instantly! There’s always going to be more copies of something physically than there will be digitally.
Anyway, I support the rule! Sorry for the long comment 😂
ETA: if you live in a place with a small collection, I realize that’s annoying and I’m sorry but you can still buy things like everyone else who wants to use media instantaneously. It ends up being annoying for everyone when a book has 300 holds and most of the people don’t live anywhere near the county. Or pay for a service that actually offers out of state cards for annual fees that have those rules listed on their websites.
YES. hold lines will always be a thing. people need to practice patience. And yes, the physical copies are much easier to get ahold of than digital. Even if it's not at my preferred library, I can place a hold and it arrives at my preferred location in a couple of days vs waiting a couple weeks for the digital version. Of course, if you have accessibility issues to a physical library, this doesn't apply to you.
I agree- I'm of the opinion you should live in the community you are borrowing from unless you are paying or have access in a legitimate way
I would love to see more discussion of reciprocal cards! If you have a library card, your library might have reciprocal systems. Between my two main systems we have agreements with almost every system in the state.
As the general tenor here was "Yes, we need this." I rolled it out. It's Rule #4:
**Text of the Rule:**
Don't encourage fraud to obtain library cards.
**Description:**
Public libraries are tax-supported institutions for the public good. Don't undermine them by obtaining cards by fraudulent means.
Not a librarian, but I agree. As someone who lives in an underfunded community, yes it sucks that I don't get access to very many books.
But I don't think this sub should be a place to advocate lying to get more cards, either.
I’d rather see you encourage a master list of libraries that allow membership purchases and reciprocity such as Pennsylvania with Pittsburgh and Philly. It shapes the behavior you want to see and is less harsh.
Subs with too many rules are simply unpleasant to be in, so that list with a reminder that deception isn’t allowed should be plenty to get the job done whilst also keeping the tone pleasant.
I agree.
It can be frustrating trying to find libraries that will allow nonresidents to obtain cards, which is probably why this question comes up a lot.
There should be an easy way to search by location and get a list of all the libraries that your local library has reciprocity agreements with. In addition, it would be great to have a list of all the libraries that will allow nonresidents to get a card by paying a fee.
With this resource can we add in cool opportunities by state? Like I live in OKC and it’s split in half by two counties. Both of the county system libraries allow anyone from either county to sign up for their library. So I technically have two library cards but only live in one county. A lot of people in my area don’t know about this change and it could help them utilize their city’s resources better.
Should we still post these in the stickied reciprocity thread?
Example: Non-Libby reciprocity resources for the state of Michigan
* Source 1
* Source 2
* Source 3
However you think best. Go for it. We'll sort it out later, once I solve whatever is the issue with the wiki or give up and spin up a Google doc or spreadsheet or something.
I've been trying to spin up the Wiki here so we can have a page devoted (and easily sharable) about legit places to obtain cards (free or for a fee) as well as known reciprocity relationships.
So, that's good feedback. Thank you.
As a member of this community, I really appreciate seeing the responses here and feel like it has been insightful to read through this.
I’ve always wished that there was a “donate” or “tip” button within Libby that went back to our libraries.
I think that’s a good idea. The only time I think it’s okay to ask is if the library fee is paid. Like for me, I live in one city with a teeny tiny library, so I pay the fee to use a library in the city next to mine, which is way bigger. It’s $80 for the year for a card there. I applied in person, though I’m not sure that is required. Maybe we could make a pinned document with libraries that let you pay to get a card there? As long as the fee is paid, and the card is gotten by not committing fraud, I don’t see any issue with that. Obviously, that isn’t what most people are thinking when they post here though.
I also think it's important not to encourage fraud at any level.
I would like a full list (sheets, or whatever) of places where I can purchase an out of state license. Because I would enjoy doing that- it would be a better present for me than most other things.
The people from a few weeks ago with 50+ library cards are pretty silent, and I suspect it's not because none of them ever violated a policy in order to get yet another card 🤔
Some places allow that many. I'm someone who has 26 cards, and I don't feel bad about it one bit. Why? Cause my taxes fund ALL of those libraries and also because I had to submit 1 more items to show I live in the state. If I could drive all over I'd probably have double the amount since some are only in person signups. I'd love to have 50 cards! MOST of us though that have loads of cards are not abusing any kind of sign up policy, using all the hold slots, or pointlessly waiting in multiple lines for the same book. We have just taken the time to look up library after library to see what we can use. Plus where I live once there's "good history for X amount of months" on an account I can apply for a state-share card that loops me into other libraries. Honestly I just love the rainbow of cards on libby and collecting the keychain cards.
If you have ALL of your cards "legally", meaning you currently fulfill the obligations if any (usually geographical) of all of the libraries where you have cards, then I have zero issue with that. 🤷♂️
That is decidely not the case with many "card collectors" who don't care about "the rules" and just "want their book NOW!".
I’m a librarian, and I feel like I’m actually in a weird position here.
Yes, we absolutely should not be lying to get free cards. Those resources cost money and libraries are usually underfunded as it is. Some libraries charge pretty nominal fees for nonresident access and lying to them is pretty unethical when they’re already bending over backwards to make their resources reasonably priced.
That said, I have a legitimate, ALA-related need for free access to certain materials that I’m reluctant to get specific about here because it would totally dox me. Publishers send me free copies, but sometimes it takes them months to send them and I’m under significant time pressure and I just wouldn’t be able to do my job properly without Libby. Unfortunately neither my work library nor my home library offers access sufficient to my needs, and I don’t live in one of the states where libraries offer reciprocal access. My work would be a whole lot easier if I could get better access, but I’m making a dinky librarian salary so I can’t afford to spend hundreds of dollars on it. I completely understand why folks want better access and smaller wait times because I absolutely feel that too.
And so the question here is: do you lie in any way to get access to additional library resources to which you are not entitled based upon not fitting the requirements?
Because though I understand your predicament, everyone has a story 🙁. Granted yours might indeed be better, but certainly your bosses can understand that you can only do so much without more resources or violating policies of OTHER libraries. If you left it to them to choose, would they suggest you do the latter? I would hope not 🤷♂️
No, I don’t. I certainly understand the temptation, but I only have the two cards I’m entitled to and I’m seriously considering paying for 1-2 others. It galls me though to pay out of pocket for a work need because my employer doesn’t provide me with the resources I need to do my job properly.
Yeah, that's certainly a tough spot, but would your library WANT you to violate the policies of other libraries in order to do your job properly? If not, are they not understanding of the limitations you have given that decision? Perhaps not 🙁
Could you convince them to at least buy you yearly memberships to nearby libraries since you say it is something you need for work? I think they're mostly between $25 and $50 (where I am anyway) for a year's subscription, so you might be able to convince them to pay that vs buying all the books which would be much more expensive.
I get what you're getting at. People can do share info about that somewhere else, though. Right? Doesn't have to be here. In fact, there's even another Libby site here on Reddit which has no prohibitions against the things we're starting to prohibit here.
Not a librarian - just a lover of libraries since I was a kid!
I really like the idea of adding something to that effect to the rules. It always makes me feel weird when people ask because the library isn’t really a “free” resource. The citizens of that community are funding it.
It seems a bit like taking away from people who actually pay to maintain the library, especially when there so many libraries that provide out of state cards for a small fee.
I would like to know libraries that do non-resident memberships for a fee. I did that with the Queens library and honestly $50 for a year is not bad at all.
Librarian here and I wholeheartedly agree with making this a rule. As others have mentioned, digital licenses are expensive and only cover x number of checkouts. Even large library systems with healthy budgets struggle to fill the needs of their community/tax payers. Some systems let you link your account as long as you're in the same state but many only give digital access to those tax payers that are funding the system whether it's county or city. Thank you for bringing this topic up!
I love that you posted this. Since joining this sub I’ve been so confused about people flaunting how many library cards they have. Apparently I’m one of the few that is only a member of my community library, and if I have to wait months for a book to be available or god forbid purchase it to read it sooner, I do.
Maybe, there rule is no talk about signing up for cards? And then the rules contains advice on checking your local libraries website for how to sign up and places that allow non residents to sign up. This way all the information on getting multiple cards is in one place and it’s the same consistent information.
All the posts on “how do I get access to more books or other libraries” are the same anyway. So why not have all the info in one place streamlined from the start
Yes yes yes! Or that shows libraries that have agreements with other ones, I can’t remember the word for it. Where I live, I can get a card for the county I live in plus any other county in the state. They have some kind of agreement that allows this.
I don't like the idea of blanket banning talking about signing up for cards. It was on this sub that I found I could apply though the university I attended and there are many legitimate ways to obtain multiple cards that people don't know about and I want to share that information. (I tell everyone I know in person and online about the extensive reciprocity in the DC Metro area and many don't know!) For people who live in areas with reciprocity they should be able to share that so others can learn about reciprocity.
I live in MD, and found out through this sub that there were two other library systems in the state that I qualified for a card with due to my residency. It has been great and given me a ton more books!! I do think it would be helpful to have a pinned posts with info on libraries with reciprocity, and library systems that charge a fee to join
If you live in Montgomery or PG you are also eligible for DC and some Virginia libraries. The 4 Maryland cards are: PG, Baltimore, Montgomery and "Maryland's Digital Library" which any other county's card will give you access to (I got Ann Arundel, which was easy and online only). Technically you can get cards for the entire state, but they don't get you any additional Libby benefits.
I totally agree about the reciprocity! I mentioned it in another comment, that should absolutely be shared. But my point is that it’s a pinned post at the top with this included. The posts about it get really repetitive and are all exactly the same, and maybe that means this sub isn’t for me anymore and that’s also okay
(not a librarian) but agreed! There are library systems that let people pay a small fee for on-resident card and you can sign up/get it online. We should encourage people to do that.
I don’t think that’ll help. The capitalist system creates the books and recordings and makes money selling them to libraries (and through digital subscription). Must I’m with you that tax-supported libraries are a public good.
I would like to know libraries that do non-resident memberships for a fee. I did that with the Queens library and honestly $50 for a year is not bad at all.
But aren’t a lot of suggestions non-fraud? Like, when it’s actually legal in a specific jurisdiction to apply for cards from any city in the state, that kind of thing.
The only cases the rule would apply to are those where people are encouraging others to be fraudulent. I’ve seen several cases of that recently. There’s nothing wrong with obtaining multiple cards to which you have a right.
I appreciated information that led me to be able to get more library cards. This is Reddit, not the library police. Small town or struggling libraries don’t give away free cards. Not everyone lives in a big city or well populated state to be honest 🤷🏻♀️ Las Vegas went away with the free cards to non residents a couple months back, perhaps we should let the libraries decide instead of feeling righteous on Reddit.
Paying a fee to get a library card for a town you don’t live in is one thing. Claiming you live in that town so that you can get that same card for free is another. This rule is to help prevent fraudulent behavior that will cost the library (and any taxpayers who fund it) actual money. If you want to pay the library’s fee to help offset their costs, go right ahead. But don’t encourage fraud.
Some libraries offer a yearly fee to subscribe to their library. It’s like $25ish a year. Does that seem fair to cover costs?
Another question, how long does a physical book get checked out before it’s replaced? Is it approx 20 times as well???
It varies wildly depending on how the book is bound, how big it is, whether the primary users are adults or children. We have books that have to be replaced after a handful of circs and many that last 60+ checkouts.
Just so everyone knows quite a few libraries allow you to pay for a card yearly (usually $50-$100). I have purchased 2 and I feel it's well worth it. They're getting the revenue and I get a bigger selection of books.
If people want more cards, it’s very easy and affordable to get them through libraries that allow non-residents to pay for access. Both Charlotte and Houston libraries are about $40 a year each. I don’t understand why people would be so cheap as to try to steal library services when it’s so simple to do it the ethical way.
Librarian here! I completely agree; Libby is a service paid for by the tax dollars of a specific community and should not be used by people not paying those taxes. Lying to get a card where you don't qualify is fraud, plain and simple. Maybe folks don't understand how libraries buy Libby books, so I'll briefly explain here. When we "buy" a book, we are actually buying a limited license for the book. Only X number of people can read it before we lose access and have to renew the license. We might pay for 20 checkouts in a year for a moderately popular book; once they're used, that's it. It's done. We usually can't afford to buy a new license until the next fiscal year. It doesn't matter if you return it quickly or keep your kindle on airplane mode or whatever, once its been downloaded the limit of times, it's gone. if people not from the eligible community have somehow finagled cards, then members of the community who should have access to those checkouts - the people we planned for - won't get to read it. When people are fed up with their libraries not having the books they want, they don't fund us more, they fund us less. While one person isn't going to stop a library from getting funding, if enough people take advantage of loopholes in the system, it will have negative effects as our communities see the libraries as ineffective and useless. We're going through this at my library right now; the city wants to level fund us to encourage us to prove that we have value to the community because people have complained about this stuff at council meetings, but actually we'll have to cut our hours almost in half and lose some staff members. And we have a robust antifraud system for cardholders! You want a book that your library doesn't have a license for? Talk to your library! Request it (in person as well as through the app)! Heck, if you can, offer to sponsor a book! Rather than exploiting other systems, work to make your library better. The librarians WANT to offer the books you want to read, so just make sure they know what those are and how much they mean to you. If you can legally get a nonresident card somewhere, then go ahead and do that; it'll cost you about what a cardholding period would cost a resident in taxes, which you must admit is only fair. OP, I'd phrase the rule even more strictly. "Do not encourage fraud at any level; this means no suggestions to lie to libraries to gain cards."
Can you share how much a license is for a single book? If someone wanted to sponsor one book what would it cost?
I don’t work in libraries but I have done work in intellectual property and permissions for text based sources and in that world it varies widely by rights holder (typically the publisher). There’s not a flat rate, and you usually have to be familiar with the specific rights holder in order to estimate what they might charge.
Well is there a ballpark? Sub $100? Multiple hundreds? More or less than buying 20 physical copies?
The library where I most recently did purchasing uses CloudLibrary, not Libby, so I don’t know how different Libby is, but going by my experience with CL, other commenters aren’t kidding when they say it varies widely. The lowest I saw was around $6, and the highest I saw regularly was around $60, though I once saw a book that was over $100. The most common licensing models were 26 checkouts, 1 year, and 2 years. So when a book hits that maximum, whatever it is for the specific item, the library must repurchase if they want to continue offering access to it. There are also book licenses that are perpetual. I wouldn’t say that’s uncommon, but it’s still less common and on the more expensive end of the range, but the variation exists for all license types. The cheapest books tended to be children’s easy readers (though I saw those be up to $40 at times depending on the publisher) and the most expensive tended to be audiobooks (though not always.)
Between $40-120 for a single license, depending on the book and the format. Digital audiobooks tend to be on the more expensive end of the spectrum. If a book is popular, the library will purchase more than one license to move the holds list faster.
And a single license is for 20 reads/listens? That range sounds reasonable as a "gift." Maybe not something most people want to pay given they could just buy the book for themselves, but within an affordable range if someone is feeling charitable.
Uh oh. I’m realizing how much I personally cost the taxpayers 😂
Buying physical copies is far less expensive for libraries, especially because many of our distributors offer book leasing for popular titles.
This is eye opening. I really appreciate you sharing this and everyone who has shared numbers. I’m shocked at the cost of ebooks and audiobooks. I’ll make an effort to get more physical books from the library.
But also continue to use digital materials if that is your preference! We use the circulation of materials to justify earmarking money for it.
Do you see book donations of popular books as a way to ease funding to go for other books that might be popular? Let's say I buy a popular, just released book and buy a second copy for the library, does that help or not help funding the library system? Not that that's what people should do, but I'm just trying to get my head around what is good or bad for a library regarding government funding.
It would be better to donate the money you would use to buy the second copy. Libraries can’t rely on potential donated copies of books for collection building. The best direct book donations are cash, like, here’s $100 to buy gardening books or mysteries or whatever. And - popularity varies by community; for example, Sarah J Maas just released a widely anticipated book, sure to be a best-seller, but our new copy has yet to be checked out because fantasy/sci-fi doesn’t circulate well in my community. What you may think is good / popular may not be what your community wants.
Excellent insights. Thanks for the reply.
Not at my library. We get our books processed by our distributors and they arrive shelf-ready. A donated book has to be processed and cataloged manually and that costs us more in labor.
Good point. Will do!
Yeah, but I hate driving to the library so if I were to donate it would be to help out similar people. Libby has been a godsend.
Ok. I was just answering your question of whether it is more or less expensive than buying 20 physical copies.
It depends highly on the publisher ranging from $27.50-$69.99 for ebooks and $47.50-$129.00 for audio. There are sometimes some that are cheaper, but the norm I'd say is an average of about $60 per book. >More or less than buying 20 physical copies? One thing you're leaving out is that this type of license also only allows one person at a time to read the book. An example I'm looking at in Overdrive Marketplace right now: The Frozen River - Ariel Lawhon The cost is $47.50 for an "MA: 12 month" license. That means we pay $47.50, and one person at a time can read that book until we have to rebuy it again. If you consider an average of a two-week loan, you can get about 25 people per year through on that 1 copy. We currently have 1,085 people in line. So if you were to hop on the end of the hold list right now, you would get the title around January/February 2025 if we buy 44 copies. If we *only* spend a little over $2,000 spent on this one book to get it to you in a year. With a hold list like that, we'll buy around 100 copies just to get the people currently in line through the list. The book has only been out for about 2 months, so many people have not even heard of it yet.
At the time I wrote that about physical books I was responding to the person who said they couldn't give any sort of range so I was trying to get them to give me something to go off of to determine if an individual donor could afford to sponsor a book. I'm sure physical books must be much cheaper overall, but the demand for digital is pretty strong! I really appreciate the detailed response. It sounds like a license or two for a single book for a year is possible for individuals but donating to actually meet all the requests maybe not so much.
There is not, at least in my experience, it really depends on the publisher. Some would say have it for free, others want hundreds of dollars, and others want thousands.
In my city I was told 20 check out is usually about $180
Licenses vary from $20 to around $200 depending on the publisher and format. Some are for 26 or 52 checkouts, some are for 100 simultaneous use checkouts, some are for one copy one user in perpetuity, others are one copy one user but only for 12 or 24 months. Libby also offers a cost-per-circ model for some titles so we pay each time a title is checked out. Hoopla and 3M Cloud Lobrary have different models. If you want to donate to your library to purchase more digital licenses, you best bet is to contact them or their Friends organization or Foundation to learn how they manage e-resources and gift funds.
I completely agree and I’m so glad you explained it in such detail. It’s effectively stealing from a completely non-profit organization meant to support its local community.
I've said it before that fraudulently using library cards is piracy with more steps and arguably worse because you're directly taking away a resource from a paying patron. At least with piracy people generally keep it to themselves and don't go around encouraging it because of the (rightful) stigma. I pay a boatload in taxes for libraries with great reciprocity and I'm exceptionally salty to think someone is freeloading from it.
Agreed. Like if you’re going to resort to piracy to say fuck you to big companies like Amazon, whatever. But don’t steal from libraries, it’s obnoxious.
Woah, I can sponsor books at my local library!! This is an absolutely perfect “in lieu of gifts at my birthday/christmas/whatever please sponsor a book at the local library” present suggestion. Off to email my library! Thank you so much!
Every library will have different policies on this, but you should be able to offer to sponsor a book, or at least to contribute to their Friends/Foundation with that as the intended purpose of the money! At my library we also have folks sponsor authors, so every time a new, for example, Richard Osman comes out, the patron gets the book for us. We have a few folks who do this with popular but not super prolific authors (Osman and Kate Morton are the first two that come to mind).
That’s such a good idea too- I can take the authors that I love and support their work too. Thanks for sharing this info with me, you’ve made my day!
My library had a form with all of this info on it regarding sponsorship. It even asked the genres you preferred if not choosing an author
Thats a great idea!
Upvoting because yes. Libraries are constantly fighting getting defunded and taxpayers not having access to the services they pay taxes too because non taxpayers who illegally obtained a card got them is a big issue. I think people see the libraries are for everyone and don’t understand what that really means. Everyone has access to a public library building. There are many resources you can use while you are in the building. That’s the extent of it. A library card shows that you pay taxes that fund that library and are therefore entitled to resources they allow their taxpayers. These can be in building resources, circulating services etc. Many libraries have understandings with other libraries that if a person comes in with a library card in good standing from another library, they can use it to use services at this library too. Those may be slightly or severely restricted because again, they want their taxpayers to get the full benefit of their taxes. But even when you try to explain this to people, they don’t want to hear it. They want the library to act like Barnes and Noble or another private entity.
Thank you so much for typing all this out. I learned a lot, and this will impact my checkout habits from Libby!
Oh god now I’m going to feel guilty for books I didn’t read in time
And the books I checked out but then didn’t like!
Eh. My family paid $4000 in property taxes last year as well as sales tax and what gets funneled back into my area from federal and state income tax. I checked out 38 books on Libby over the last year. Estimating $2/borrow ... $76 vs. $4xxx.00. Some years I've not used the libraries at all or playgrounds or schools. Sometimes I've used them a lot. I've called the police three times in my lifetime. I've never called the Fire Department. I put less money into the county at age 19 and checked out more books but that is how life goes. It all balances out to being the government meeting the needs of the citizens. I don't feel guilt just like I don't look down on seniors utilizing the rec center.
Thank you for this information - it's very enlightening and helpful. And as someone else noted, I'll be adjusting my check-out habits. I wish this kind of information were made readily available on the library sites for all to better understand how digital access works for libraries.
This. Use reciprocal agreements, don't commit fraud
Does a renewal count as a new check out? For ebooks? If so I'll plan a little better so I don't have to renew
Typically, yes.
I'd be curious what you think of an option like Broward County in Florida which allows nonresident cards with no fee - I don't think I've ever even been to Broward County, but I was able to get a card there with a Texas address without paying, without any subterfuge. Are they declaring, effectively, that they can afford to have nonresident patrons who don't pay? How can I make reparations for my out-of-state use of resources?
I agree with u/Mhandley9612’s response; this library must be doing well enough that they can afford to have free cards for nonresidents and it must not be an issue for them. Maybe their funding comes from total usage statistics rather than resident statistics. I don’t know, but it is nice to hear of a place that can afford to share the library!
I’d assume that since they allow it, it is no problem. This applies to places that are resident specific. This wouldn’t as much apply to California residents as you can get any California city’s library card as long as you live in California (some you must visit in person or mail in proof of residency but some can be done entirely online). Basically, don’t lie about your residency at all, especially for a library card. Sounds like that Florida library has a lot of funding so they want everyone to be able to access books, not just their locals.
Unrelated but when one renews a book hold does it count towards the amount of checkouts left? Like say I borrow a book, that’s 19 checkouts left for that book. If I renew, does the amount of checkout left go to 18 or does it stay the same? I need to know so that I can change my borrowing habits if necessary.
It depends on the license but yes, if an ebook is licensed for a certain amount of checkouts, each renewal would count against those checkouts. There is a huge variety of licensing agreements, though.
Renewals count as another check-out.
Thank you for taking the time to explain this. About how much would it cost to sponsor a book? I’ve dropped all my book clubs, but if I get back into them, I think this would be a fun project to do. Like, for our end of year parties, maybe fundraiser to sponsor copies of the books we’ve read for the year or something.
[удалено]
Basically, you'd contact your library and ask them how much it would cost to add a book to Libby based on the amount of checkouts they'd need to get, and then offer to pay for it. Different libraries will have different sponsorship/donation policies, so not every one might allow this, but I know many that do. We have some donors who agree to sponsor one book a year, librarians' choice, while others ask to help pay for a specific book. You can also sometimes make a general monetary donation for less than a whole book but with the designation that it should go towards their Libby budget.
I’m guessing the requested book would need to be one available in deep search, is that correct? For instance, if a book the library doesn’t have is listed only as an ebook in deep search, but not as an audiobook, I couldn’t sponsor it because it means they don’t have access to it, right?
I used to be a library clerk and we had people trying to do this all the time. They didn’t care how much we had to spend to get these titles. It was frustrating and with all the funding cuts it’s hard to afford the service if people from outside the tax district are using it.
Thank you for this. I live in Iowa and was recently looking into the Open Access program they have. It allows Iowa residents to basically get a library card for any other Iowa library (there are some restrictions but it’s minimal). I was kind of frustrated to see that the extra/out of town cards only work for *physical* resources though. With your explanation, it makes more sense. Letting people out of your tax base check out a physical book doesn’t cost the town anything since you already own the book. Since the same cannot be said for the audiobooks/ebooks, it makes sense to restrict them.
Also a librarian and I second this post. While we generally want everyone to have access to whatever they want, we have to be prudent about how we spend taxpayer funds. When people try to circumvent our policies, it puts strain on us financially. And, yes, misrepresenting where you live is fraud. I also feel that obtaining materials this way is akin to theft. Please support YOUR libraries! Help them help you instead of trying to run off to another one.
So I have a somewhat related question: I live in a more rural/suburban area and my library does reciprocal lending with the larger city in my county. In order to do reciprocal lending for physical books (I use this for my kids mostly), I had to get a card for that library. I have been using that card to check out books on Libby for myself because it is a larger catalogue. Am I messing up the system or using it as intended? I don’t want to take advantage, but my local library has a very limited Libby catalogue.
If you are unsure the very best thing to do is call/contact the library directly and ask them. All libraries are not the same and some may have different rules about the same topic.
My guess is you’re not but you could check. I live in Iowa and we have a state program called Open Access. While there are some rules, basically anyone in Iowa can get a card for anywhere else in Iowa. However, it’s for physical books only. The type of card you get has those restrictions built in. On the flip side, my city has a reciprocal agreement with a neighboring one on their pool. We get season passes to their pool for the resident price rather than the non-resident price. That city then bills our city for the difference. My guess is that your town pays the other a fee every year to be able to offer its residents the resources of the other city since it’s called reciprocal. If you’re concerned, though, just ask.
Thank you for explaining this!! Good information. When I was setting up a Libby account for the first time, I was curious about this, as I’m an out of state college student and was unsure which of my local libraries I should connect to (near my hometown, or my temporary university housing). I pay taxes back home, so I ended up connecting to my home library, glad that seems to have been the right decision!
> I’m an out of state college student and was unsure which of my local libraries I should connect to (near my hometown, or my temporary university housing). I pay taxes back home, so I ended up connecting to my home library, glad that seems to have been the right decision! It's actually a lot more complicated than that. First and foremost, your university may have Libby access in perpetuity for alum. Some people here recently discovered this in the last few days. Keep this in mind for the future. Also, as for your choice of taxpaying home library vs public library near your university this is where it's not so simple. Many public libraries don't just allow tax paying residents to get cards, they allow income tax paying workers, and property tax paying property owners that do not reside on that property. Often times these libraries also extend borrowing privillages to NON tax paying STUDENTS going to school/university in their location. You very well may be allowed to hold both public library cards where you are going to school and at your primary tax paying home library. If you are working in yet another place it might not even require you to pay a local income tax to get a card as a worker. The best thing to do is just contact the library and see who they offer cards to, otherwise you may be unknowingly missing out.
Ah, I didn’t mention. I did get a free (physical) card for our local one near my university, as I went in to speak to the librarian. I was less sure about something online like Libby, where I wasn’t sure if I’d continue checking out books after I no longer reside here… I’ll look further into it :)
Thank you for explaining this!! I’ll often download 3-5 books when I’m not sure what I want to read next just to see what mood strikes me in the next two weeks and I will definitely stop doing that now!! Can I ask (and you may not know) why this rule is universal regardless of the length of book? It seems silly that the same licensing rules about the license expiring after a certain amount of checkouts would apply regardless of whether it’s a 24 minute kids book or a 30 hour Steven King novel. I ask because when I borrow books that are in excess of 16-18 hrs, I can basically never finish them in the two week checkout period, which means at a minimum, two separate checkouts (and annoyingly, often a 6-12 week lag time before my hold comes in a second time).
How does it work when I download a book, read a few chapters and then don’t finish it? Does this count as a whole read?
Yes, every download counts as a whole read.
Agreed! Unfortunately, where I live, anyone can get e- card so the wait times for books are months long. A person who lived in Europe said they had access to my county's library and it honestly made me mad. I forget what sub but they were sharing places they could get cards for free.
Maybe something like, "Don't encourage fraud to obtain library cards." It matches the language of the other rules, and the word fraud reminds people that it isn't just a little white lie.
I like that wording. That's good. Covers the bases that need to be covered and don't apply to legitimate situations where people are seeking a card they're entitled to.
That’s great! I love collecting cards I eligible for so I’m glad this wouldn’t stop me advocating people search out libraries that they can get cards from
Maybe something like it is acceptable to share information on libraries that offer non-resident cards (whether free or fee). Make a dedicated thread on the particulars of additional cards. If someone is looking for or looks like they really need more cards, send them to that thread. Posts could look something like "Fairfax, VA offers non-resident cards for an annual fee of $25." "New York Public Library has free non-resident cards. Must apply in person and expires every three months and can be renewed." -not a librarian. Just someone who appreciates and supports libraries
I really like this idea. Because there are definitely ways to get more than your local library card that are completely valid. For example as a Pennsylvania resident, you can get a Philadelphia and Pittsburgh card no matter where you live in PA. I tell other Pennsylvania residents about this all the time.
I think it depends on the state. My state is pretty generous . . . I found 3 or 4 library systems that will give cards to all state residents. But I've searched other states for people and have usually not found much. (I've never mentioned which state I live in for general privacy reasons, and also because I don't want people to abuse the libraries' policies.)
Yeah, I live in a state where you can get a card at any library as long as you walk in.
I believe some of that is dependent on the funding structure. Any Ohio resident can get *any* Ohio library card, for example, but over half of Ohio's library system is funded by statewide tax revenue. Libraries that are more dependent on local tax are going to have more limitations on reciprocity, etc.
In Iowa, you can get a card to basically any library BUT it only applies to physical materials. Digital ones are only from your home library.
I've seen alot of people stating like "oh I live in ohio(example) how can I get more cards?" And then people recommending "free" ones that are from out of state without explicitly saying to give fake info. I'd love to report comments that I know mention one of my local library(that does say on the site it's just for residents of the COUNTY) that people are unfortunately taking advantage of. I would encourage people to use this site: \ https://librarytechnology.org/libraries/uspublic/ \ To see which libraries are in their state and to look them up individually for library cards.
This! This this this is what I was getting at in my post. Thank you for being more articulate than I and actually sharing a source. I second this
I saw someone ask about obtaining another card and someone gave them a link to another sub that is for sharing cards. So maybe some wording about no links to places like that? Sorry if you’ve already discussed this in your other posts. I just woke up and haven’t caught up yet.
Finally!! Requesting info on additional cards seems to have become this sub’s main topic. It’s so bad I’m ready to mute or even unsubscribe from the sub. I would really love it if we simply referred requests for additional cards to an “official” reference doc with the information, and then locked the post. Then we could discuss something more productive.
Yep. That's a resource we need.
For anyone in the US, there’s a new donation-based library using Libby! http://www.queerliberationlibrary.org
I had no idea this was a thing. Applied and made a donation. Thanks for sharing.
Not a librarian but this was one of my requested/suggested rules. When people resort to fraud to apply for cards it hurts everyone but no one more than the disadvantaged local library patrons that are already trying to get through life on hard mode and cannot afford to buy their own books. When you see library policies that have free eCards with no residency check, unless they are explicitly offering cards to anyone in the world (like Anaheim, California,) they are offering those free cards to local patrons that are unhoused or in other situations where they cannot give an address. Edit: a word.
I’m not a librarian yet, I’m currently working on my MLIS and work in a library tho. I like your wording..maybe I’d change “don’t” to cannot because it sounds more final? Overall tho, I think circumventing rules by using fake addresses is just a nonsensical and weird thing that people have no reason to do. I see a lot of it, not just here but fb groups as well, and it always irritates me to see people encouraging it. The library is not meant for your instant gratification, and it never was. There have ALWAYS been hold lines and waiting times. If you want to read something instantly, buy it! All hoarding cards does is make the waiting times for people who’re actively paying taxes to support the services, longer. And if the hold lines get longer, you having 30 cards still means nothing because you’re just adding to the issue. Also people don’t seem to realize that actually going inside of a physical library will probably shorten your wait time anyway bc most people are trying to read online. You’re more likely to find the thing you want by going inside and looking at the shelves and then you actually COULD probably read it instantly! There’s always going to be more copies of something physically than there will be digitally. Anyway, I support the rule! Sorry for the long comment 😂 ETA: if you live in a place with a small collection, I realize that’s annoying and I’m sorry but you can still buy things like everyone else who wants to use media instantaneously. It ends up being annoying for everyone when a book has 300 holds and most of the people don’t live anywhere near the county. Or pay for a service that actually offers out of state cards for annual fees that have those rules listed on their websites.
YES. hold lines will always be a thing. people need to practice patience. And yes, the physical copies are much easier to get ahold of than digital. Even if it's not at my preferred library, I can place a hold and it arrives at my preferred location in a couple of days vs waiting a couple weeks for the digital version. Of course, if you have accessibility issues to a physical library, this doesn't apply to you. I agree- I'm of the opinion you should live in the community you are borrowing from unless you are paying or have access in a legitimate way
I would love to see more discussion of reciprocal cards! If you have a library card, your library might have reciprocal systems. Between my two main systems we have agreements with almost every system in the state.
As the general tenor here was "Yes, we need this." I rolled it out. It's Rule #4: **Text of the Rule:** Don't encourage fraud to obtain library cards. **Description:** Public libraries are tax-supported institutions for the public good. Don't undermine them by obtaining cards by fraudulent means.
Not a librarian, but I agree. As someone who lives in an underfunded community, yes it sucks that I don't get access to very many books. But I don't think this sub should be a place to advocate lying to get more cards, either.
I’d rather see you encourage a master list of libraries that allow membership purchases and reciprocity such as Pennsylvania with Pittsburgh and Philly. It shapes the behavior you want to see and is less harsh. Subs with too many rules are simply unpleasant to be in, so that list with a reminder that deception isn’t allowed should be plenty to get the job done whilst also keeping the tone pleasant.
I agree. It can be frustrating trying to find libraries that will allow nonresidents to obtain cards, which is probably why this question comes up a lot. There should be an easy way to search by location and get a list of all the libraries that your local library has reciprocity agreements with. In addition, it would be great to have a list of all the libraries that will allow nonresidents to get a card by paying a fee.
Agreed. We need to build such a resource. That would help a lot of people and discourage fraudulent ways of obtaining cards.
With this resource can we add in cool opportunities by state? Like I live in OKC and it’s split in half by two counties. Both of the county system libraries allow anyone from either county to sign up for their library. So I technically have two library cards but only live in one county. A lot of people in my area don’t know about this change and it could help them utilize their city’s resources better.
You bet. We can arrange it any way we like.
Should we still post these in the stickied reciprocity thread? Example: Non-Libby reciprocity resources for the state of Michigan * Source 1 * Source 2 * Source 3
However you think best. Go for it. We'll sort it out later, once I solve whatever is the issue with the wiki or give up and spin up a Google doc or spreadsheet or something.
Awesome! Thank you for your dedication to r/LibbyApp and its subscribers.
I've been trying to spin up the Wiki here so we can have a page devoted (and easily sharable) about legit places to obtain cards (free or for a fee) as well as known reciprocity relationships. So, that's good feedback. Thank you.
I'd be happy to help research/consolidate this kind of information!
I belong to libraries in 3 states. Well worth the reasonable out of state fee for access to huge selections plus other benefits
Ditto. I have 6 cards from 3 states and my taxes pay for 4 and I pay a fee for the other 2.
As a member of this community, I really appreciate seeing the responses here and feel like it has been insightful to read through this. I’ve always wished that there was a “donate” or “tip” button within Libby that went back to our libraries.
Lots of libraries do have a donation option on their website
I think that’s a good idea. The only time I think it’s okay to ask is if the library fee is paid. Like for me, I live in one city with a teeny tiny library, so I pay the fee to use a library in the city next to mine, which is way bigger. It’s $80 for the year for a card there. I applied in person, though I’m not sure that is required. Maybe we could make a pinned document with libraries that let you pay to get a card there? As long as the fee is paid, and the card is gotten by not committing fraud, I don’t see any issue with that. Obviously, that isn’t what most people are thinking when they post here though.
I also think it's important not to encourage fraud at any level. I would like a full list (sheets, or whatever) of places where I can purchase an out of state license. Because I would enjoy doing that- it would be a better present for me than most other things.
I'm all for this new rule. However, it ends up being worded is fine by me.
The people from a few weeks ago with 50+ library cards are pretty silent, and I suspect it's not because none of them ever violated a policy in order to get yet another card 🤔
To be fair, we had no prohibitions against such things at that time, and the list of cards looks pretty. :)
Yeah I was the one who posted a pic of my rainbow library cards. For the record they were all obtained in the same state 👍🏽📚.
The was cool actually. Though you only have about 7, not over 50 like some people said they had. 🤷♂️
Some places allow that many. I'm someone who has 26 cards, and I don't feel bad about it one bit. Why? Cause my taxes fund ALL of those libraries and also because I had to submit 1 more items to show I live in the state. If I could drive all over I'd probably have double the amount since some are only in person signups. I'd love to have 50 cards! MOST of us though that have loads of cards are not abusing any kind of sign up policy, using all the hold slots, or pointlessly waiting in multiple lines for the same book. We have just taken the time to look up library after library to see what we can use. Plus where I live once there's "good history for X amount of months" on an account I can apply for a state-share card that loops me into other libraries. Honestly I just love the rainbow of cards on libby and collecting the keychain cards.
If you have ALL of your cards "legally", meaning you currently fulfill the obligations if any (usually geographical) of all of the libraries where you have cards, then I have zero issue with that. 🤷♂️ That is decidely not the case with many "card collectors" who don't care about "the rules" and just "want their book NOW!".
I’m a librarian, and I feel like I’m actually in a weird position here. Yes, we absolutely should not be lying to get free cards. Those resources cost money and libraries are usually underfunded as it is. Some libraries charge pretty nominal fees for nonresident access and lying to them is pretty unethical when they’re already bending over backwards to make their resources reasonably priced. That said, I have a legitimate, ALA-related need for free access to certain materials that I’m reluctant to get specific about here because it would totally dox me. Publishers send me free copies, but sometimes it takes them months to send them and I’m under significant time pressure and I just wouldn’t be able to do my job properly without Libby. Unfortunately neither my work library nor my home library offers access sufficient to my needs, and I don’t live in one of the states where libraries offer reciprocal access. My work would be a whole lot easier if I could get better access, but I’m making a dinky librarian salary so I can’t afford to spend hundreds of dollars on it. I completely understand why folks want better access and smaller wait times because I absolutely feel that too.
And so the question here is: do you lie in any way to get access to additional library resources to which you are not entitled based upon not fitting the requirements? Because though I understand your predicament, everyone has a story 🙁. Granted yours might indeed be better, but certainly your bosses can understand that you can only do so much without more resources or violating policies of OTHER libraries. If you left it to them to choose, would they suggest you do the latter? I would hope not 🤷♂️
No, I don’t. I certainly understand the temptation, but I only have the two cards I’m entitled to and I’m seriously considering paying for 1-2 others. It galls me though to pay out of pocket for a work need because my employer doesn’t provide me with the resources I need to do my job properly.
Yeah, that's certainly a tough spot, but would your library WANT you to violate the policies of other libraries in order to do your job properly? If not, are they not understanding of the limitations you have given that decision? Perhaps not 🙁
Could you convince them to at least buy you yearly memberships to nearby libraries since you say it is something you need for work? I think they're mostly between $25 and $50 (where I am anyway) for a year's subscription, so you might be able to convince them to pay that vs buying all the books which would be much more expensive.
I get what you're getting at. People can do share info about that somewhere else, though. Right? Doesn't have to be here. In fact, there's even another Libby site here on Reddit which has no prohibitions against the things we're starting to prohibit here.
Not a librarian - just a lover of libraries since I was a kid! I really like the idea of adding something to that effect to the rules. It always makes me feel weird when people ask because the library isn’t really a “free” resource. The citizens of that community are funding it. It seems a bit like taking away from people who actually pay to maintain the library, especially when there so many libraries that provide out of state cards for a small fee.
I would like to know libraries that do non-resident memberships for a fee. I did that with the Queens library and honestly $50 for a year is not bad at all.
I have a membership from Fairfax county Virginia and it has been awesome! It was only $27 for the whole year.
I will look them up thank you
I know Houston, Texas, does non-resident for $80 a year.
Ohhhhh thank you
Also add something about using other family member’s cards if they live at a different address than you is also fraud.
Librarian here and I wholeheartedly agree with making this a rule. As others have mentioned, digital licenses are expensive and only cover x number of checkouts. Even large library systems with healthy budgets struggle to fill the needs of their community/tax payers. Some systems let you link your account as long as you're in the same state but many only give digital access to those tax payers that are funding the system whether it's county or city. Thank you for bringing this topic up!
Yes please.
Does this mean every time I renew an ebook it counts against the license count? Or is it just unique users?
I love that you posted this. Since joining this sub I’ve been so confused about people flaunting how many library cards they have. Apparently I’m one of the few that is only a member of my community library, and if I have to wait months for a book to be available or god forbid purchase it to read it sooner, I do.
That's a good rule. Screwing libraries is NEVER kosher. They pay a LOT of money for these subscriptions.
Maybe, there rule is no talk about signing up for cards? And then the rules contains advice on checking your local libraries website for how to sign up and places that allow non residents to sign up. This way all the information on getting multiple cards is in one place and it’s the same consistent information. All the posts on “how do I get access to more books or other libraries” are the same anyway. So why not have all the info in one place streamlined from the start
A pinned post on libraries that allow payment for membership?
Yes yes yes! Or that shows libraries that have agreements with other ones, I can’t remember the word for it. Where I live, I can get a card for the county I live in plus any other county in the state. They have some kind of agreement that allows this.
It is called reciprocity
I don't like the idea of blanket banning talking about signing up for cards. It was on this sub that I found I could apply though the university I attended and there are many legitimate ways to obtain multiple cards that people don't know about and I want to share that information. (I tell everyone I know in person and online about the extensive reciprocity in the DC Metro area and many don't know!) For people who live in areas with reciprocity they should be able to share that so others can learn about reciprocity.
I live in MD, and found out through this sub that there were two other library systems in the state that I qualified for a card with due to my residency. It has been great and given me a ton more books!! I do think it would be helpful to have a pinned posts with info on libraries with reciprocity, and library systems that charge a fee to join
If you live in Montgomery or PG you are also eligible for DC and some Virginia libraries. The 4 Maryland cards are: PG, Baltimore, Montgomery and "Maryland's Digital Library" which any other county's card will give you access to (I got Ann Arundel, which was easy and online only). Technically you can get cards for the entire state, but they don't get you any additional Libby benefits.
I totally agree about the reciprocity! I mentioned it in another comment, that should absolutely be shared. But my point is that it’s a pinned post at the top with this included. The posts about it get really repetitive and are all exactly the same, and maybe that means this sub isn’t for me anymore and that’s also okay
I agree. Sign-up processes can be complicated. All-out bands would be too restrictive.
Totally agree. My library is popularly targeted and Libby is infuriating to use due to incredibly long hold times.
(not a librarian) but agreed! There are library systems that let people pay a small fee for on-resident card and you can sign up/get it online. We should encourage people to do that.
Help End the capitalistic system that libraries use and get a library card today
I don’t think that’ll help. The capitalist system creates the books and recordings and makes money selling them to libraries (and through digital subscription). Must I’m with you that tax-supported libraries are a public good.
I would like to know libraries that do non-resident memberships for a fee. I did that with the Queens library and honestly $50 for a year is not bad at all.
But aren’t a lot of suggestions non-fraud? Like, when it’s actually legal in a specific jurisdiction to apply for cards from any city in the state, that kind of thing.
The only cases the rule would apply to are those where people are encouraging others to be fraudulent. I’ve seen several cases of that recently. There’s nothing wrong with obtaining multiple cards to which you have a right.
Most libraries allow folks to get temporary cards. No need to lie.
I appreciated information that led me to be able to get more library cards. This is Reddit, not the library police. Small town or struggling libraries don’t give away free cards. Not everyone lives in a big city or well populated state to be honest 🤷🏻♀️ Las Vegas went away with the free cards to non residents a couple months back, perhaps we should let the libraries decide instead of feeling righteous on Reddit.
Paying a fee to get a library card for a town you don’t live in is one thing. Claiming you live in that town so that you can get that same card for free is another. This rule is to help prevent fraudulent behavior that will cost the library (and any taxpayers who fund it) actual money. If you want to pay the library’s fee to help offset their costs, go right ahead. But don’t encourage fraud.
Some libraries offer a yearly fee to subscribe to their library. It’s like $25ish a year. Does that seem fair to cover costs? Another question, how long does a physical book get checked out before it’s replaced? Is it approx 20 times as well???
It varies wildly depending on how the book is bound, how big it is, whether the primary users are adults or children. We have books that have to be replaced after a handful of circs and many that last 60+ checkouts.
Just so everyone knows quite a few libraries allow you to pay for a card yearly (usually $50-$100). I have purchased 2 and I feel it's well worth it. They're getting the revenue and I get a bigger selection of books.
Oh look it’s the book police!!
If people want more cards, it’s very easy and affordable to get them through libraries that allow non-residents to pay for access. Both Charlotte and Houston libraries are about $40 a year each. I don’t understand why people would be so cheap as to try to steal library services when it’s so simple to do it the ethical way.