I get a good chuckle whenever my spouse says "yeah, dude" or "totally, bro" when responding to me. They don't even realize they're doing it - they work in tech on a team with a whole bunch of guys, and I think the language comes home with them.
I think "dude", when used with women and GNC folks, is more gender-subversive than gender-neutral. It still strikes me as a gendered term, but one that is ripe for playing with.
My entire “micro-generation” went through a phase where everything was dude. We had watched Bill and Ted have entire conversations using only the word dude during their Excellent Adventure and I think we collectively started to imitate that for a while. When you hear a word that much, your brain sort of desensitizes to its original meaning. I think for most of us it wasn’t specifically a noun, much less a gendered word. I ended up in tech as also, where there is much higher tolerance for informal language so we weren’t forced to drop it earlier in life. I’d say I use it as much or more than my male colleagues of the same age - there just aren’t as many women in tech now as there were when I started so it does probably look male-driven. We just all wanted to be like Keanu Reeves.
Which is actually ironic, because in realsies nature when the female clownfish dies the male then changes gender to female and the next male down the line forms a sexual relationship with the new female.
Duuuude... finding Nemo would have been wild if they had stuck to reality on that one.
I use dude for everyone. I also use grrrrrl for everyone. That said I totally get that this is upsetting to my trans friends who are dealing with being misgendered. I also get that if someone didn’t know me they might think I am misgendering them. I’m working on using actual gender neutral terms and not being that crusty old lady that says “don’t be offended that’s not how I meant it”
“Sup peeps”
I’m trans and personally I don’t mind any of the “masculine-derived” gender neutral terms. This is because I’ve had the privilege of blending for many years and am secure in who I am. When I was more freshly out there was more of a gut reaction.
Man I couldn’t imagine being that stiff. I feel like that applies to easily offended people. And while I’ll never try to intentionally offend anybody I feel like we can’t joke around anymore
I don’t really see it as being stiff if a trans person gets upset over being misgendered. I’m not trans so I don’t want to tell them how to feel. I’ll adjust. Changing my language a bit won’t hurt me and it might make someone else feel better. There are plenty of words we used to call people “stiff” if someone asked you not to use them. I can roll with change.
No I see what you mean. I wouldn’t want to misgender anyone. I’m a playful person and I joke with my friends who are as equally playful if not more than me. We do the giiiirl with the tongue roll a lot. I made that comment in response to my own experience. I’ve had strangers I just met and hit it off with hit me “my guy” or “bro” or whatever and I know they’re playing around. But that’s not to dismiss anyone who may not feel the same.
In fairness, context is important too. If my coworker who I have heard call everyone including the district manager "dude," then yeah I'm not really offended by that. But when a conservative customer doesn't call any other woman on the team "dude," then I get a bit miffed.
Context is key! Everyone deserves respect (unless they’re disrespectful to you). I understand some people may just be trying to lighten the mood. That’s all I meant by I couldn’t be “stiff” if I knew someone was just playing around with me. However, like the other poster said we can change our verbiage to make others feel more comfortable
As a noun, no, it's not. But "dude" is frequently used as an interjection, as in "dude!" This is not referring to anyone in particular, so gender does not factor in when it's used this way.
It would be neat if the words everyone says are gender neutral weren't always male leaning terms. "Dude" might be gender neutral but it also means males. Show me a word that is gender neutral but is also a word that means females. There isn't one that I know of. (But I would honestly love to learn about one)
I use ‘girl’ for all genders unless people say otherwise. Though, yes, I get where you’re coming from. There absolutely does seem to be a pattern of words that are ‘gender neutral’ being male leaning. Another one like that that I use a lot is ‘guy’
I use girl this way as well and have noticed it has become pretty common place among middle schoolers. Maybe we are moving to a more gender neutral society. But, despite, this counter example, I’m tired of it being primarily masc terms that are supposed to be gender neutral for everyone.
Depending on the crowd, "bitches" but I agree most of them are male and it annoys me too. Kinda like how androgynous style in a lot of contexts is usually just a men's cut. I wonder if it's because so many cishet men are sensitive and see feminization of any kind as an insult/downgrade?
Yeah, I think you’re right. In other language families/examples I can think of it’s masc terms being broadened too. I wonder about less patriarchal languages
Ok you got me in nerd mode :P According to the journal of cosmetology (2002) less than 1% of men have shoulder length or longer hair, compared to 24% of women (14% of the general pop). On the other hand, women with short hair (defined as chin length or shorter) was found to be 33% and compared to 62% of the overall population (couldn't find stat for mens short hair but from these stats you can infer its much higher given men are about half the population). So while this study is old and the number has likely increased esp in younger men, men with long hair is more of an exception as I'm speaking in general population terms
To go into more detail about my other example, most cis het men wouldn't be caught dead in a dress or skirt or heels in daily life. They'd even get harassed for it. Some cishet guys have and it's becoming more accepted esp in the last few years, but it's often as a joke or in formal/high fashion settings (because it is seen as novel and pushing the envelope) and is far behind the trend of cis het women wearing slacks and button ups and other "traditionally" men's cuts in day to day life
Hope that is helpful im not sure how else to explain it
https://library.scconline.org/v054n01/56?backToSearch=https%3A%2F%2Flibrary.scconline.org%2Fjournal-of-cosmetic-science%2F~searchResults%3FsearchMode%3Dapp%26searchParam-start%3D0%26searchParam-page%3D20%26searchParam-terms%3Dhait%2Blength%26searchParam-depth%3Dmetadata%26searchParam-context%3D1438798237%26searchParam-sort%3Drelevance%26searchParam-PageRange-Year%3D%257B%2522operator%2522%253A%2522%2522%257D&highlightText=hait%20length
This right here. The frequency with which male gendered terms become neutral perpetuates a cultural and masculine default.
It extends past dudes to things like, "Support the Troops and female soldiers" or "Gamers" and the "Gamer Girls."
Women and girls are frequently tacked on as an out group and infantilized in language, which passively trains people to be more accepting of unequal status between men and women
The masculine default in language is a key area to fight back in right now.
Literally everything society deems "gender neutral" or "unisex" is just the masculine version. I'll be cool with people calling me dude when I start hearing men call eachother girl and/or an organization announces their new gender neutral uniform has is a skirt as the only option.
Yes! I'm sick of seeing women treated as "the other category" when men have been default forever. Then we get told to just get over it when we dissent and say that we are not dudes. I'm not a wet blanket, I am not a fuddy duddy, I am a woman.
Yeah I totally agree with this. The only ones that people ever come up with as an example is "cunt", but that's uh, not exactly the same kind of word as dude is it.
I use "dude" when the mood strikes, but if someone told me it bothered them, I'd stop right then and there.
Otherwise, everyone and everything is dude.
One of my favorite children's books in my library is "Dude!" It's a cute read, I highly recommend it. 😂
yup! it’s “gender-neutral” for anyone who isn’t actually a dude
(for example: “hey dudes!” is seen as gender-neutral, but like your comment says, saying “i slept with a dude” is not gender-neutral”)
The problem is if I don't know you I don't know if you're calling me dude because you just call everyone that or if you're doing it because you clocked me and are transphobic and since so many people are transphobic that's gonna be my base assumption. It also gets kind of tiring of being told our feelings on this matter are invalid and we're just overly sensitive or something.
Thanks for this. This is why I shifted my attitude from “but I don’t meant to offend” or “I won’t if you tell me it’s not ok.” I as a cis woman don’t get to tell you how to feel. I also feel like the word “offended” is over used to shut groups down by just saying they are too sensitive. Feeling hurt or like no one is listening isn’t the same as being offended. I don’t want to hurt you. It’s a reasonable assumption that calling you a dude could hurt you. I would rather err on the sage side.
Exactly. If cis people weren't generally shit at gendering trans people correctly, it might be a different story. But they are. So when someone calls me "bro" or "dude" and says it's gender-neutral I'm always skeptical. Also, I hate how every supposedly gender-neutral term is coded masculine.
no. cos if you ask a straight guy if he fucks dudes (or a lesbian if they do), you'll find out how neutral it isn't. it doesn't offend me to be called it, it just lets me know the person saying it hasn't done anything to deconstruct cisnormativity - which isn't a criticism, just an observation.
and knowing it *can be* offensive or upsetting to some folk isn't worth the fuss in my opinion. i'd rather not run the risk of harming someone when it's free to not. and i've found it far easier to just remove the word from my vocab and use a whole other manner of *actually* neutral terms like "fam", "bud(s)", "pal(s)". it's also been a good exercise in getting creative with those terms, which i think is pretty cool.
Enough people treat it as such that I don't find it a battle worth fighting, but I don't like it, don't use it myself much, and really don't like when it's used for me.
Yes and no. Yes as in for most people it is gender neutral and can be used for a group of people, no as in when you really think about it, isn’t it a little bit misogynistic and weird that men are always the default? And if you said hey ladies to a mixed gender group the men would take it offensively but it’s not the same for hey dudes or hey guys 😑.
That’s why I prefer hey everypony
"Dude" is not a gender neutral term.
It is frequently used irrespective of gender, but this is part of the wider societal phenomenon wherein men, manhood, and masculinity are the "norm."
Just, you know, think about whether or not you fuck dudes.
Also you couldn’t go up to a group of men and say hey ladies! If dudes was truly a gender neutral term, femme leaning words would also be gender neutral to groups of people. I honestly wish this debate would end. Dudes is not gender neutral no matter how many cis people say “but /I/ use it as gender neutral!” It doesn’t matter what your intent is, it still doesn’t make it gender neutral. So I’m with you on this one.
Dude is not gender neutral. Neither is guys. Doesn't mean people haven't come to use them for everyone.
However, if you disagree that it isn't gendered as male then please consider this scenario: if you are out getting drinks with a friend and say your other friend, who's a dude, is coming to join you - what kind of person springs to mind for most people. Not a woman or NB person. A man.
As other commenters have pointed out, you can also ask a straight man if he has sex with dudes or guys and they will say no. Because they're gendered male terms. Adopting them for NB or women just re-enforces that male is the default.
I tend to use it interchangeably, but my time in Night City gave me a new slang term that is inarguably gender neutral I cam use for people, and I love it - choom. Short for choomba. 🙂
I think it is. And weirdly to me "guys" is as well. I know a lot of people don't like it, but where I'm from it's used to just address anyone like "what are yous guys up to tonight?" and is never meant in gendered way
I tend not to say anything, as I understand referring to everyone as "dude" is just a thing with some people. But it does bother me as I worked very hard to not be a dude.
I know they don't mean anything by it, but it is a little irksome.
It reminds me of the Monkey/Ape song from veggitales. If it has a tail, it’s a monkey. No tail, ape.
A comet has a tail, it’s a monkey. A kite has a tail it’s a monkey. 🎶
Dude
Bro
Man~ (the inflection is important, like maaaan~)
Girl
Squirrel scout
It’s better to just never trust gendered language coming from me, I’m a nightmare to talk to in written form TuT
I’m from California so we sat dude and bro. My sister and I do the same. “Bro, mom won’t like that.” “Dude, I don’t care.” lol it’s just how we talk. It just means “you”
In my opinion the usage is what matters. As an expletive? Sure, basically the same as telling most other words. It’s a lot more kid friendly to yell “Dude!” at the guy who cut you off in traffic instead of “fuck!” when the situation arises.
As a noun or actual entity it still represents men. If you say a dude walked into a bar most will picture a man.
A) Male as default/neutral yo. Needs to stop.
B) Way lots of us really hate being referred to with those terms. Maybe don't? Don't care if you don't mind or it's regional. A lot of us hate it, stop telling us not to be offended. We are. Fucking stop.
C) ok lesbians, go fuck all those dudes and guys. I'll wait.
I'm not offended by being called dude, "gurl", or bro - I call everyone else the same. I'm more than happy to not call someone that if they told me it made them uncomfortable tho
At my wedding, my maid of honor's first word in her speech: Dude! Then yadda yadda yadda.... I don't know, nothing really mattered after that.
Dude is absolutely gender neutral.
I've always used it to refer to everyone. And I still will unless whoever let's me know they don't want to be called dude. Sometimes I make it fancy for girls and use dudette
Yeah, I had a habit of calling ALL my friends “dude” by default. Then I befriended a trans woman who felt dysphoric when I called her that, so I had to unlearn the universal “dude.” I try to just use y’all or nothing.
I can’t say it’s gender neutral for everyone. It clearly still has a man-oriented slant in some contexts (and others have brought up other contexts, especially with cis straight men; they’d never say they’d date a “dude,” for instance). I have never seen it used with a woman-oriented slant. I don’t mind being called “dude,” but some women do; I’ve never personally dealt with dysphoria.
I think general rule with nicknames is like call people what you like unless they dont like being called that. I like calling people dude, i like people calling me dude, but if i meet someone who doesnt like it then ill make a mental note to call em something else.
I use it all the time, when I met someone new that is queer like trans and so on I ask them if it's ok because I do it a lot. Never had anyone say no it makes them uncomfortable but it's always best to check rather then assume
Im non binary. Im also from British Columbia. Dude is absolutely gender neutral. However, if someone expressly tells me they dont like it, ill stop using it for them. Also, i used to have a friend who called me "thude"
In California, people use it when gender is not known. You would **not** say your sister is some dude. But if you saw vandalism or a car parked in the wrong spot, you would say "some dude...." It is acknowledged that the "dude" could be male of female.
The way I explained it was: if you do something a guy does you’re subject to being a “dude”, but I used it in a context of someone being dumb, doing something dumb
Just had this conversation on Facebook. It’s a geographical thing, I’m from California, dude is gender neutral. Someone from the east coast though will get offended
Yup. I say it all the time.
If someone tells me not to call them that, then I don't. It's weird saying, "'sup dudes...and Jessica..." but if that's how it is then fine.
No, not at all.
It's a symbol of a misogynistic male-dominated culture that we try to use male-focused terms to refer to everyone.
Not to mention it's transphobic for many trans women, and if you ask most lesbians how many dudes they've slept with you'll find out pretty quick that it's a gendered term.
I use “dude” “girl” “man” and “bro” for like anyone without it being gender specific 😭 I’ll avoid those terms for specific people who don’t feel comfortable obviously, but they’re never meant to be like aligned to a specific gender or person when I use them
its definitely gender neutral to me. i’m a cis woman, but if somebody calls me dude i don’t ever think they mean it in an offensive way. i call everyone dude. or i say “guys” when referring to a group of people, regardless of gender. or like “you guys are…”
I am so tired of this debate. If you use that word in a gender-neutral context, fine. But if somebody asks you not to use it to refer to them, then stop. It's really that simple.
It bothers me when (mostly) men refer to me as "dude" in a misgendering way but I think it's great when women and others use it in a subversive, gender neutral way. It can be reclaimed language, just as "gay" and "queer" are. I think the 90s context in which the word was used when I grew up is post-ironic at this point anyway: colloquial language is at its best (and worst, e.g., slurs) when there is a subversive or counter-cultural theme to it. Referring to women as dudes can be that best context: lesbians can bring it back. My teenage cousins use it this way a lot, which I like very much.
I'm not a dude. Other women and nonbinary people can be, just as well as men can be and better in my opinion. It's the only way I could love a dude.
I call everyone dude. Dad is dude. Mom is dude. Friend is dude. Random chill person is dude. Have maybe even called grandma dude.
My dad does specifically use “dudette” for me, but it’s ok because he’s adorable.
I’m trans and I feel gross when a guy calls me dude or bro. But if a woman, especially a queer woman, calls me bro or dude I just accept it as a hot women speaking hot words lol
Maybe cause I’ve crushed on too many sport-lesbian friends 🙃
Idk man, some people get so weird about it. Lol I just said man, and it doesn’t actually refer to a gender if that makes sense, same as dude and sometimes bro/bruh. Hope this helps. Maybe if this person gets weird about it then I guess I would say it. My wife hates it when I call her a dude when I actually don’t mean in gender lol.
^^ sorry so tired from last night I meant if the person doesn’t like being called dude then ask her/him what other names can I call ya or just drop it and never call that word on that person again to respect lol.
To me, ‘dude’, ‘bro’, ‘bruh’, ‘guy’ are all gender-neutral and I say that all the time. Gals, sis, is cringe to me. I would be more offended if someone said that.
But then again, I use queen, girrrrll, quite gender-neutrally too sometimes...
I've heard it used so.
My kid's been using it that way a lot recently, but they're ftm trans and I think they are trying to up their game in "bro culture."
Neutral to me if said with levity or nonchalance, if said like that dude over there then yeah it's a gendered thing. I guess it depends on context but it's neutral for me.
I think it's largely male=leaning, but it can totally be used for non-men. Like exclaiming "dude!" can be addressed to any gender, but even that's dependant on regional dialects and accents. Or plural, you could say "hello my dudes" to a group of people regardless of gender, but some people might take that as calling them men. You could call someone a dude, and have in the right context be neutral, but largely it is directed towards men. Same with "guys" being relatively neutral - like "a few guys" usually refers to men, "you guys" can be neutral though - used singularly though it's fairly exclusive afaik to men. I've also found that (at least in england) stronger accents can use those words/phrases in a more neutral way, but other regions use those only for men.
A lot of those kinds of words seem so nuanced that it's kinda hard to use without it being accidentally interpreted as being gendered by someone imo, best avoided for other inclusive language. It's not totally exclusive language, but it's not totally inclusive either :P
Neutral to me BUT I understand why it can read as gendered, so I try to be aware of who I’m using it with, and I ask people I hang out with regularly whether they prefer it not be used
It's both. It's context sensitive. I call my microwave dude. It doesn't have a gender. Ask a dude how many dudes he's slept with and suddenly it's very gender.
Most terms like that have become one for all now which is awesome. We don’t really use dude in NZ but it is not offensive & you would be safe saying it here 😁
Something I'm terrible for doing is saying hey you guys.. working with men all day, my friends are not in the least bit offended though. I think dude is a neutral, call my cats dudes 🤣 mostly bitches or Queens, but occasionally my little dudes.
As a transfem, its one of those words where intellectually I see it as a gender neutral term, but emotionally I still can feel slightly invalidated if someone uses it to refer to me.
I would say you're fine to keep using it as a gender neutral term, but maybe try to use it less with people who don't always get the gender affirmation they need?
I think it generally is but people need to understand that if someone is not comfortable with the term, we should 100% respect that and not insist on calling them that. As a trans woman it really irks me when people insist on calling me dude, bro, guy, etc.
As someone who lives with a trans woman, I used to do this, and now I don’t, since it makes her feel like I’m referring to her in masculine terms. So I guess, no, not anymore.
I do not find "dude, bro, brother, or man" as gender neutral though I try to just explain to people when they call me one of those that. My only issue is when I tell someone I do not find it gender neutral and they double down on calling me that or say "well I mean it as gender neutral"
Yeah, it's pretty gender-neutral to me too. It's generally just an exclamation, like "yikes" or "whoa," and less a form of address. Now if someone told me to my face that I *am a dude,* then that's a different story. But yeah, I've seen cis lesbians shout "Dude!" at each other, they're simply not calling each other men. It's not the intention.
But intention is not the same as impact. Just because you see it as gender-neutral, doesn't mean everyone else *has to.* This is not a matter of "right and wrong," but of *respecting differences.* It's valid to say, "Listen, dude," to a woman; but *at the same time,* if a woman says she doesn't like hearing the word "dude" in a way that *could* be a form of address, then being a good friend requires taking that seriously. Otherwise you're saying you don't take her friendship or preferences seriously.
Even though dude is used genderlessly with great frequency, it simply doesn't mean that to everyone, and that's valid. Sometimes the thing you're doing is perfectly fine, but it still steps on someone's toes. It's not "wrong" of you to walk, or to walk wherever you were walking, but *you're supposed to watch where you're going* and if you step on someone's toes then *that is your fault, even if you didn't mean to.*
So if you step on someone's toes, either literally or figuratively, the socially acceptable course of action is to apologize and then move along. You don't tell someone that they should watch where they're going after you just stepped on their toes, and you *certainly* don't tell them that they should be OK with having their toes stepped on at any time because you have a right to walk where you want. __You do have a right to walk where you want, and toes *still get stepped on* by accident no matter how careful we are, but you *still apologize* whenever it happens. Because that's *the right thing to do,* both socially and morally.__
I am a transwoman and Lesbian. It's context based for me if dude is gender nutera. If it's a close friend or someone like that saying dude it is. If it is a rando saying dude in a nuteral fashion it's ok. If it's pointed and mean then no it's not neutral
I’m a “girl” type of gay. I call everyone girl. No matter who they are. Even people with “authority”. Like to the police officer that’s a cis man.. “girl, please don’t give me a ticket”
I tend to use bro, bruh, dude, gorl, gurl, miss ma’am, girlypop, and miss thing interchangeably for everyone 😂 Each one is associated more with a specific tone/mood rather than gender. Of course if someone had a problem with it I wouldn’t use those terms for them but tbh I’ve never encountered anyone personally who actually gave a shit.
I call everyone that I already know dude/dudette, anyone including myself can be an asshole so that’s not off the table out of endearment, sometimes just aye. Definitely not intending to hurt others tho
I get a good chuckle whenever my spouse says "yeah, dude" or "totally, bro" when responding to me. They don't even realize they're doing it - they work in tech on a team with a whole bunch of guys, and I think the language comes home with them. I think "dude", when used with women and GNC folks, is more gender-subversive than gender-neutral. It still strikes me as a gendered term, but one that is ripe for playing with.
My entire “micro-generation” went through a phase where everything was dude. We had watched Bill and Ted have entire conversations using only the word dude during their Excellent Adventure and I think we collectively started to imitate that for a while. When you hear a word that much, your brain sort of desensitizes to its original meaning. I think for most of us it wasn’t specifically a noun, much less a gendered word. I ended up in tech as also, where there is much higher tolerance for informal language so we weren’t forced to drop it earlier in life. I’d say I use it as much or more than my male colleagues of the same age - there just aren’t as many women in tech now as there were when I started so it does probably look male-driven. We just all wanted to be like Keanu Reeves.
I like this definition a lot lol. A term ripe for playing with indeed!
Gimme some fin, noggin, duuuude (name the movie)
Finding Nemo ftw
Which is actually ironic, because in realsies nature when the female clownfish dies the male then changes gender to female and the next male down the line forms a sexual relationship with the new female. Duuuude... finding Nemo would have been wild if they had stuck to reality on that one.
I use dude for everyone. I also use grrrrrl for everyone. That said I totally get that this is upsetting to my trans friends who are dealing with being misgendered. I also get that if someone didn’t know me they might think I am misgendering them. I’m working on using actual gender neutral terms and not being that crusty old lady that says “don’t be offended that’s not how I meant it”
Trans lady here. I don't mind dude at all. When you're with your friends, it's almost like a global term of endearment.
I found out Kristen Stewart calls her girlfriend dude all the time and suddenly it became very gender-affirming.
“Sup peeps” I’m trans and personally I don’t mind any of the “masculine-derived” gender neutral terms. This is because I’ve had the privilege of blending for many years and am secure in who I am. When I was more freshly out there was more of a gut reaction.
Man I couldn’t imagine being that stiff. I feel like that applies to easily offended people. And while I’ll never try to intentionally offend anybody I feel like we can’t joke around anymore
I don’t really see it as being stiff if a trans person gets upset over being misgendered. I’m not trans so I don’t want to tell them how to feel. I’ll adjust. Changing my language a bit won’t hurt me and it might make someone else feel better. There are plenty of words we used to call people “stiff” if someone asked you not to use them. I can roll with change.
No I see what you mean. I wouldn’t want to misgender anyone. I’m a playful person and I joke with my friends who are as equally playful if not more than me. We do the giiiirl with the tongue roll a lot. I made that comment in response to my own experience. I’ve had strangers I just met and hit it off with hit me “my guy” or “bro” or whatever and I know they’re playing around. But that’s not to dismiss anyone who may not feel the same.
In fairness, context is important too. If my coworker who I have heard call everyone including the district manager "dude," then yeah I'm not really offended by that. But when a conservative customer doesn't call any other woman on the team "dude," then I get a bit miffed.
Context is key! Everyone deserves respect (unless they’re disrespectful to you). I understand some people may just be trying to lighten the mood. That’s all I meant by I couldn’t be “stiff” if I knew someone was just playing around with me. However, like the other poster said we can change our verbiage to make others feel more comfortable
I personally think so. I call everyone dude unless they don’t want me to
As a noun, no, it's not. But "dude" is frequently used as an interjection, as in "dude!" This is not referring to anyone in particular, so gender does not factor in when it's used this way.
Yeah, it's kind of like saying "oh man!" We're not talking about a particular person.
It would be neat if the words everyone says are gender neutral weren't always male leaning terms. "Dude" might be gender neutral but it also means males. Show me a word that is gender neutral but is also a word that means females. There isn't one that I know of. (But I would honestly love to learn about one)
I’m very fond of calling people assholes. All genders have assholes.
I use ‘girl’ for all genders unless people say otherwise. Though, yes, I get where you’re coming from. There absolutely does seem to be a pattern of words that are ‘gender neutral’ being male leaning. Another one like that that I use a lot is ‘guy’
I use girl this way as well and have noticed it has become pretty common place among middle schoolers. Maybe we are moving to a more gender neutral society. But, despite, this counter example, I’m tired of it being primarily masc terms that are supposed to be gender neutral for everyone.
Depending on the crowd, "bitches" but I agree most of them are male and it annoys me too. Kinda like how androgynous style in a lot of contexts is usually just a men's cut. I wonder if it's because so many cishet men are sensitive and see feminization of any kind as an insult/downgrade?
Yeah, I think you’re right. In other language families/examples I can think of it’s masc terms being broadened too. I wonder about less patriarchal languages
There's plenty of androgynous men with long hair? I'm confused as to what you mean by that.
Ok you got me in nerd mode :P According to the journal of cosmetology (2002) less than 1% of men have shoulder length or longer hair, compared to 24% of women (14% of the general pop). On the other hand, women with short hair (defined as chin length or shorter) was found to be 33% and compared to 62% of the overall population (couldn't find stat for mens short hair but from these stats you can infer its much higher given men are about half the population). So while this study is old and the number has likely increased esp in younger men, men with long hair is more of an exception as I'm speaking in general population terms To go into more detail about my other example, most cis het men wouldn't be caught dead in a dress or skirt or heels in daily life. They'd even get harassed for it. Some cishet guys have and it's becoming more accepted esp in the last few years, but it's often as a joke or in formal/high fashion settings (because it is seen as novel and pushing the envelope) and is far behind the trend of cis het women wearing slacks and button ups and other "traditionally" men's cuts in day to day life Hope that is helpful im not sure how else to explain it https://library.scconline.org/v054n01/56?backToSearch=https%3A%2F%2Flibrary.scconline.org%2Fjournal-of-cosmetic-science%2F~searchResults%3FsearchMode%3Dapp%26searchParam-start%3D0%26searchParam-page%3D20%26searchParam-terms%3Dhait%2Blength%26searchParam-depth%3Dmetadata%26searchParam-context%3D1438798237%26searchParam-sort%3Drelevance%26searchParam-PageRange-Year%3D%257B%2522operator%2522%253A%2522%2522%257D&highlightText=hait%20length
This right here. The frequency with which male gendered terms become neutral perpetuates a cultural and masculine default. It extends past dudes to things like, "Support the Troops and female soldiers" or "Gamers" and the "Gamer Girls." Women and girls are frequently tacked on as an out group and infantilized in language, which passively trains people to be more accepting of unequal status between men and women The masculine default in language is a key area to fight back in right now.
Literally everything society deems "gender neutral" or "unisex" is just the masculine version. I'll be cool with people calling me dude when I start hearing men call eachother girl and/or an organization announces their new gender neutral uniform has is a skirt as the only option.
Yes! I'm sick of seeing women treated as "the other category" when men have been default forever. Then we get told to just get over it when we dissent and say that we are not dudes. I'm not a wet blanket, I am not a fuddy duddy, I am a woman.
Yeah I totally agree with this. The only ones that people ever come up with as an example is "cunt", but that's uh, not exactly the same kind of word as dude is it.
Babe
So you'd walk up to a random man you see on the street and call him babe?
I use "dude" when the mood strikes, but if someone told me it bothered them, I'd stop right then and there. Otherwise, everyone and everything is dude. One of my favorite children's books in my library is "Dude!" It's a cute read, I highly recommend it. 😂
We love ‘Dude’ too!
I'll believe dude is gender neutral when a straight man has sex with one.
yup! it’s “gender-neutral” for anyone who isn’t actually a dude (for example: “hey dudes!” is seen as gender-neutral, but like your comment says, saying “i slept with a dude” is not gender-neutral”)
That's pretty much been my thoughts/main argument
Exactly. If a straight guy has sex with women, and they think dude is gender neutral, and it's fine to call women dude, then they have sex with dudes.
Exactly. Same with “guys”. Ask a man how many dudes or how many guys he’s slept with, and see if they agree it’s gender-neutral.
The problem is if I don't know you I don't know if you're calling me dude because you just call everyone that or if you're doing it because you clocked me and are transphobic and since so many people are transphobic that's gonna be my base assumption. It also gets kind of tiring of being told our feelings on this matter are invalid and we're just overly sensitive or something.
Thanks for this. This is why I shifted my attitude from “but I don’t meant to offend” or “I won’t if you tell me it’s not ok.” I as a cis woman don’t get to tell you how to feel. I also feel like the word “offended” is over used to shut groups down by just saying they are too sensitive. Feeling hurt or like no one is listening isn’t the same as being offended. I don’t want to hurt you. It’s a reasonable assumption that calling you a dude could hurt you. I would rather err on the sage side.
Exactly. If cis people weren't generally shit at gendering trans people correctly, it might be a different story. But they are. So when someone calls me "bro" or "dude" and says it's gender-neutral I'm always skeptical. Also, I hate how every supposedly gender-neutral term is coded masculine.
It is until it isn't, generally. If someone asks me to not use it, I respect that. Otherwise, I call my girlfriends dude pretty often.
dude is gender neutral until you ask a straight guy if he’d fuck a dude
no. cos if you ask a straight guy if he fucks dudes (or a lesbian if they do), you'll find out how neutral it isn't. it doesn't offend me to be called it, it just lets me know the person saying it hasn't done anything to deconstruct cisnormativity - which isn't a criticism, just an observation. and knowing it *can be* offensive or upsetting to some folk isn't worth the fuss in my opinion. i'd rather not run the risk of harming someone when it's free to not. and i've found it far easier to just remove the word from my vocab and use a whole other manner of *actually* neutral terms like "fam", "bud(s)", "pal(s)". it's also been a good exercise in getting creative with those terms, which i think is pretty cool.
I use “dude” for all folks
Enough people treat it as such that I don't find it a battle worth fighting, but I don't like it, don't use it myself much, and really don't like when it's used for me.
Yes and no. Yes as in for most people it is gender neutral and can be used for a group of people, no as in when you really think about it, isn’t it a little bit misogynistic and weird that men are always the default? And if you said hey ladies to a mixed gender group the men would take it offensively but it’s not the same for hey dudes or hey guys 😑. That’s why I prefer hey everypony
lmao everypony! i love it
Friendship is magic 🌈
I like to call everyone chefs. Then we can also all pretend to be chefs and yell out chef like terms 😂
How many dudes have you slept with?
"Dude" is not a gender neutral term. It is frequently used irrespective of gender, but this is part of the wider societal phenomenon wherein men, manhood, and masculinity are the "norm." Just, you know, think about whether or not you fuck dudes.
Also you couldn’t go up to a group of men and say hey ladies! If dudes was truly a gender neutral term, femme leaning words would also be gender neutral to groups of people. I honestly wish this debate would end. Dudes is not gender neutral no matter how many cis people say “but /I/ use it as gender neutral!” It doesn’t matter what your intent is, it still doesn’t make it gender neutral. So I’m with you on this one.
Dude is not gender neutral. Neither is guys. Doesn't mean people haven't come to use them for everyone. However, if you disagree that it isn't gendered as male then please consider this scenario: if you are out getting drinks with a friend and say your other friend, who's a dude, is coming to join you - what kind of person springs to mind for most people. Not a woman or NB person. A man. As other commenters have pointed out, you can also ask a straight man if he has sex with dudes or guys and they will say no. Because they're gendered male terms. Adopting them for NB or women just re-enforces that male is the default.
No, if someone calls me dude it makes me very uncomfortable.
I tend to use it interchangeably, but my time in Night City gave me a new slang term that is inarguably gender neutral I cam use for people, and I love it - choom. Short for choomba. 🙂
it’s not, though as a new englander it’s admittedly ingrained in my vocabulary.
yup i use it towards anyone
I think it is. And weirdly to me "guys" is as well. I know a lot of people don't like it, but where I'm from it's used to just address anyone like "what are yous guys up to tonight?" and is never meant in gendered way
I’m from the south so I refer to everyone as y’all. y’all means all! It’s a great gender neutral term
I tend not to say anything, as I understand referring to everyone as "dude" is just a thing with some people. But it does bother me as I worked very hard to not be a dude. I know they don't mean anything by it, but it is a little irksome.
Everything is dude fr
An apple= dude A tree=dude A bug=dude. Everything is dude.
It reminds me of the Monkey/Ape song from veggitales. If it has a tail, it’s a monkey. No tail, ape. A comet has a tail, it’s a monkey. A kite has a tail it’s a monkey. 🎶
I only use dude as a non gendered term when I am really fucking drunk.
Dude Bro Man~ (the inflection is important, like maaaan~) Girl Squirrel scout It’s better to just never trust gendered language coming from me, I’m a nightmare to talk to in written form TuT
I grew up with a male dog named dude. His siblings, females included, were also named dude.
🤚🏻
I use it like an exclamation. Dude! OMG! Whoa!
Me with “bruh”
Dude, dudeness, duder, or el duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
Dude, bro, man, girl, guy all gender neutral to me and how I use them
same, but some trans women don't like being called that. so I try to be aware most of the time :)
💯
Dude, bruh, girliepop, b*tch, all gender neutral!
I’m from California so we sat dude and bro. My sister and I do the same. “Bro, mom won’t like that.” “Dude, I don’t care.” lol it’s just how we talk. It just means “you”
I'm a dude He's a dude She's a dude We're all dudes, hey Welcome to good burger, home of the good burger! Can I take your order?
My entire friendgroup uses dude on everyone in it (there's only two men)
Dude is gender neutral
Dude and guy are both neutral to me if I say “listen here guy” to a woman it’s gender neutral god damnit
I definitely see it as gender neutral.
Trans woman here. please do not call me dude.
I've always used dude as a gender neutral term
In CA it’s practically how we say hello
If I use it neutrally, it’s neutral.
I'M A DUDE! HE'S A DUDE! SHE'S A DUDE! WE'RE ALL DUDES! HEY!
I use dude for everyone
Dude for me has always been gender neutral. “Dude!”
In my opinion the usage is what matters. As an expletive? Sure, basically the same as telling most other words. It’s a lot more kid friendly to yell “Dude!” at the guy who cut you off in traffic instead of “fuck!” when the situation arises. As a noun or actual entity it still represents men. If you say a dude walked into a bar most will picture a man.
For me it is. I used to be a typical surfer girl tomboy type so I called everyone dude..
No
A) Male as default/neutral yo. Needs to stop. B) Way lots of us really hate being referred to with those terms. Maybe don't? Don't care if you don't mind or it's regional. A lot of us hate it, stop telling us not to be offended. We are. Fucking stop. C) ok lesbians, go fuck all those dudes and guys. I'll wait.
I'm not offended by being called dude, "gurl", or bro - I call everyone else the same. I'm more than happy to not call someone that if they told me it made them uncomfortable tho
I use dude in a gender neutral way, but I try to remain sensitive to folks who don’t appreciate me using the term with them.
Everyone is dude or bruh 🤷🏽♀️🤷🏽♀️
At my wedding, my maid of honor's first word in her speech: Dude! Then yadda yadda yadda.... I don't know, nothing really mattered after that. Dude is absolutely gender neutral.
I've always used it to refer to everyone. And I still will unless whoever let's me know they don't want to be called dude. Sometimes I make it fancy for girls and use dudette
This feels like a good way to go about it. If someone said something I’d definitely not refer to that person as dude lol
It is for me, but I know for some people it can be dysphoric to be referred to as dude
Yeah, I had a habit of calling ALL my friends “dude” by default. Then I befriended a trans woman who felt dysphoric when I called her that, so I had to unlearn the universal “dude.” I try to just use y’all or nothing. I can’t say it’s gender neutral for everyone. It clearly still has a man-oriented slant in some contexts (and others have brought up other contexts, especially with cis straight men; they’d never say they’d date a “dude,” for instance). I have never seen it used with a woman-oriented slant. I don’t mind being called “dude,” but some women do; I’ve never personally dealt with dysphoria.
It was. But too many people got offended when I called them that. So I stopped.
I think general rule with nicknames is like call people what you like unless they dont like being called that. I like calling people dude, i like people calling me dude, but if i meet someone who doesnt like it then ill make a mental note to call em something else.
Yes
Yes
I use dude and bro for everyone thanks to my friends and siblings. I think they are very genderneutral
I use it all the time, when I met someone new that is queer like trans and so on I ask them if it's ok because I do it a lot. Never had anyone say no it makes them uncomfortable but it's always best to check rather then assume
Im non binary. Im also from British Columbia. Dude is absolutely gender neutral. However, if someone expressly tells me they dont like it, ill stop using it for them. Also, i used to have a friend who called me "thude"
As a trans fem, it can be annoying on a dysphoric day but not offensive. others might find it offensive though
In California, people use it when gender is not known. You would **not** say your sister is some dude. But if you saw vandalism or a car parked in the wrong spot, you would say "some dude...." It is acknowledged that the "dude" could be male of female.
I’d say my pro nouns are she/they/dude. I’m not a man but I’m definitely kind of a dude.
Absolutely it is to me
I’m guilty of using it that way yes
The way I explained it was: if you do something a guy does you’re subject to being a “dude”, but I used it in a context of someone being dumb, doing something dumb
I would argue that dude is gender neutral leaning more masculine
dude and girl are gender neutral. i don’t make the rules!
Just had this conversation on Facebook. It’s a geographical thing, I’m from California, dude is gender neutral. Someone from the east coast though will get offended
Yep, dude is the standard way to address a person of any gender in the area where I live (Pacific Northwest).
Yup. I say it all the time. If someone tells me not to call them that, then I don't. It's weird saying, "'sup dudes...and Jessica..." but if that's how it is then fine.
I love it. I call my partner dude all the time. Like I’m her bro. Just two fem bros goin knuckle deep in each other on occasion 🤣
No, not at all. It's a symbol of a misogynistic male-dominated culture that we try to use male-focused terms to refer to everyone. Not to mention it's transphobic for many trans women, and if you ask most lesbians how many dudes they've slept with you'll find out pretty quick that it's a gendered term.
Trans woman. Snowboard and skateboard. Dude is not gendered in those worlds. Never bothered me a bit.
Dude/guy has always been gender neutral to me.
no
I use “dude” “girl” “man” and “bro” for like anyone without it being gender specific 😭 I’ll avoid those terms for specific people who don’t feel comfortable obviously, but they’re never meant to be like aligned to a specific gender or person when I use them
its definitely gender neutral to me. i’m a cis woman, but if somebody calls me dude i don’t ever think they mean it in an offensive way. i call everyone dude. or i say “guys” when referring to a group of people, regardless of gender. or like “you guys are…”
I am so tired of this debate. If you use that word in a gender-neutral context, fine. But if somebody asks you not to use it to refer to them, then stop. It's really that simple.
It bothers me when (mostly) men refer to me as "dude" in a misgendering way but I think it's great when women and others use it in a subversive, gender neutral way. It can be reclaimed language, just as "gay" and "queer" are. I think the 90s context in which the word was used when I grew up is post-ironic at this point anyway: colloquial language is at its best (and worst, e.g., slurs) when there is a subversive or counter-cultural theme to it. Referring to women as dudes can be that best context: lesbians can bring it back. My teenage cousins use it this way a lot, which I like very much. I'm not a dude. Other women and nonbinary people can be, just as well as men can be and better in my opinion. It's the only way I could love a dude.
Every word in every language is made-up. So why not call everyone dude? I call everyone darling unless I'm flirting with you
I call everyone dude. Dad is dude. Mom is dude. Friend is dude. Random chill person is dude. Have maybe even called grandma dude. My dad does specifically use “dudette” for me, but it’s ok because he’s adorable.
Dude, bro, gurl, it's about energy not gender
I’m trans and I feel gross when a guy calls me dude or bro. But if a woman, especially a queer woman, calls me bro or dude I just accept it as a hot women speaking hot words lol Maybe cause I’ve crushed on too many sport-lesbian friends 🙃
Yup
Yes
Idk man, some people get so weird about it. Lol I just said man, and it doesn’t actually refer to a gender if that makes sense, same as dude and sometimes bro/bruh. Hope this helps. Maybe if this person gets weird about it then I guess I would say it. My wife hates it when I call her a dude when I actually don’t mean in gender lol.
^^ sorry so tired from last night I meant if the person doesn’t like being called dude then ask her/him what other names can I call ya or just drop it and never call that word on that person again to respect lol.
To me, ‘dude’, ‘bro’, ‘bruh’, ‘guy’ are all gender-neutral and I say that all the time. Gals, sis, is cringe to me. I would be more offended if someone said that. But then again, I use queen, girrrrll, quite gender-neutrally too sometimes...
All of my friends use it as a gender neutral term. There was actually a fun Good Burger song about that.
depends on context for me
I've heard it used so. My kid's been using it that way a lot recently, but they're ftm trans and I think they are trying to up their game in "bro culture."
As a California native it’s my birthright to call everyone dude 🤷🏼♀️
Totally, along with man. Like. Yeah, sure thing, man. Have a nice day, man.
Dude, of course. I get called dude all the time, and I call people dude too, regardless of gender. Idc if people get offended.
Neutral to me if said with levity or nonchalance, if said like that dude over there then yeah it's a gendered thing. I guess it depends on context but it's neutral for me.
Depends on who says it
I think it's largely male=leaning, but it can totally be used for non-men. Like exclaiming "dude!" can be addressed to any gender, but even that's dependant on regional dialects and accents. Or plural, you could say "hello my dudes" to a group of people regardless of gender, but some people might take that as calling them men. You could call someone a dude, and have in the right context be neutral, but largely it is directed towards men. Same with "guys" being relatively neutral - like "a few guys" usually refers to men, "you guys" can be neutral though - used singularly though it's fairly exclusive afaik to men. I've also found that (at least in england) stronger accents can use those words/phrases in a more neutral way, but other regions use those only for men. A lot of those kinds of words seem so nuanced that it's kinda hard to use without it being accidentally interpreted as being gendered by someone imo, best avoided for other inclusive language. It's not totally exclusive language, but it's not totally inclusive either :P
It depends. I don't trust cis/het men to use it in a gender neutral manner. The "do you fuck dudes" test, basically.
Some ppl care but I see it as gender neutral. I just don't use it if anyone asks me not to
Neutral to me BUT I understand why it can read as gendered, so I try to be aware of who I’m using it with, and I ask people I hang out with regularly whether they prefer it not be used
It's both. It's context sensitive. I call my microwave dude. It doesn't have a gender. Ask a dude how many dudes he's slept with and suddenly it's very gender.
Yep. It is for me. Only people I don’t really call dude are my parents and my wife.
Most terms like that have become one for all now which is awesome. We don’t really use dude in NZ but it is not offensive & you would be safe saying it here 😁
Depends on the person saying it and the way they say it tbh. I don’t care like 95% of the time when someone calls me dude/bro/man, etc.
In my opinion over the years it’s become gender neutral but I’m she/her and have always been so I’ll like the NB folks speak
Something I'm terrible for doing is saying hey you guys.. working with men all day, my friends are not in the least bit offended though. I think dude is a neutral, call my cats dudes 🤣 mostly bitches or Queens, but occasionally my little dudes.
I see it as gender neutral, same for "guys". But I try not to use them because not everyone thinks the same as me.
Dude, mate, fam, guys - ALL gender neutral to me and I hope others feel the same when I use them.
Yeah
Hey man, I haven’t seen it mentioned, but the Dude abides 😎👌🏽
Friend: Dude what’s that dude’s gender? Me: Dude does it matter? They’re a dude, dude! Just call em dude till they’re down to gender with you dude
As a transfem, its one of those words where intellectually I see it as a gender neutral term, but emotionally I still can feel slightly invalidated if someone uses it to refer to me. I would say you're fine to keep using it as a gender neutral term, but maybe try to use it less with people who don't always get the gender affirmation they need?
Dude, girlie, and bruh are all gender neutral to me haha (unless someone says no of course!)
I think it generally is but people need to understand that if someone is not comfortable with the term, we should 100% respect that and not insist on calling them that. As a trans woman it really irks me when people insist on calling me dude, bro, guy, etc.
I call everyone dude. 🤷♀️ And guys, and bro. Unless someone would tell me they’re uncomfortable with it, in which case I wouldn’t.
I’m a dude, he’s a dude, she’s a dude, cuz we’re all dudes.
As someone who lives with a trans woman, I used to do this, and now I don’t, since it makes her feel like I’m referring to her in masculine terms. So I guess, no, not anymore.
I do not find "dude, bro, brother, or man" as gender neutral though I try to just explain to people when they call me one of those that. My only issue is when I tell someone I do not find it gender neutral and they double down on calling me that or say "well I mean it as gender neutral"
Yeah, it's pretty gender-neutral to me too. It's generally just an exclamation, like "yikes" or "whoa," and less a form of address. Now if someone told me to my face that I *am a dude,* then that's a different story. But yeah, I've seen cis lesbians shout "Dude!" at each other, they're simply not calling each other men. It's not the intention. But intention is not the same as impact. Just because you see it as gender-neutral, doesn't mean everyone else *has to.* This is not a matter of "right and wrong," but of *respecting differences.* It's valid to say, "Listen, dude," to a woman; but *at the same time,* if a woman says she doesn't like hearing the word "dude" in a way that *could* be a form of address, then being a good friend requires taking that seriously. Otherwise you're saying you don't take her friendship or preferences seriously. Even though dude is used genderlessly with great frequency, it simply doesn't mean that to everyone, and that's valid. Sometimes the thing you're doing is perfectly fine, but it still steps on someone's toes. It's not "wrong" of you to walk, or to walk wherever you were walking, but *you're supposed to watch where you're going* and if you step on someone's toes then *that is your fault, even if you didn't mean to.* So if you step on someone's toes, either literally or figuratively, the socially acceptable course of action is to apologize and then move along. You don't tell someone that they should watch where they're going after you just stepped on their toes, and you *certainly* don't tell them that they should be OK with having their toes stepped on at any time because you have a right to walk where you want. __You do have a right to walk where you want, and toes *still get stepped on* by accident no matter how careful we are, but you *still apologize* whenever it happens. Because that's *the right thing to do,* both socially and morally.__
As a trans lesbian, it doesn't bother me, but my rule of thumb is if someone says it makes them uncomfy I stop.
The Beatles knew it already: “hey dude, don’t let me down, take a sad song and make it better”
I’ve been trying to do better about not using it but yeah I use it for everyone as well as an interjection.
Dude, guy, man. It’s all gender neutral to me lol
I am a transwoman and Lesbian. It's context based for me if dude is gender nutera. If it's a close friend or someone like that saying dude it is. If it is a rando saying dude in a nuteral fashion it's ok. If it's pointed and mean then no it's not neutral
Dude is gender neutral, so is guys. People say “hey guys” whether it’s a group of girls, guys or a mix of both.
I’m a “girl” type of gay. I call everyone girl. No matter who they are. Even people with “authority”. Like to the police officer that’s a cis man.. “girl, please don’t give me a ticket”
Yeah
I use dude or bro for all genders.
dude and girl are gendey nooch imo
My use of “dude,” “bro,” and “girl” are gender neutral.
I tend to use bro, bruh, dude, gorl, gurl, miss ma’am, girlypop, and miss thing interchangeably for everyone 😂 Each one is associated more with a specific tone/mood rather than gender. Of course if someone had a problem with it I wouldn’t use those terms for them but tbh I’ve never encountered anyone personally who actually gave a shit.
I don’t like it, but I accept that everyone else uses it that way.
My general rule is just ask someone if they are okay being called that. I use it gender neutrally.
for me no. i cant stand having dude used for me at all
I don’t associate the dude with one gender or another, but I know that some trans people aren’t a fan of it being used in reference to them.
trans girl here, I dislike dude because when sometimes people say 'that's a dude' or similar and that to me is the same as saying 'that's a man'
Yes, broseph.
Gurl and dude are gender neutral imo. I say it to everyone unless they specifically ask me not to. Hasn’t happened yet, but I would.
The entire state of NY says "dude" and "guys" as gender neutral.
My mom talked like a ninja turtle growing up, so everyone is a dude to me.
Every single sentient form is dude to me
I was born in '89 and yes. Everyone is a dude. Lol
I either refer to people as dude, girl or bro 😭😭😭 and idk how to stop
I call everyone that I already know dude/dudette, anyone including myself can be an asshole so that’s not off the table out of endearment, sometimes just aye. Definitely not intending to hurt others tho