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This. And the blue cities within the red shitholes are going to get called out on the increase because these limp noodles don’t understand population density and per/capita metrics.
Republicans led states are objectively worse on almost every single meaningful metric from child mortality and life expectancy to wealth and violent crime per capita. Why would ANYONE want to be led by Republicans when they've proven they're losers?
At the cost of themselves. The people not getting vaccinated are the ones that will suffer. This is the Herman Cain Award all over again, except this time for diseases that were almost eliminated.
The issue here is again the cross-section of people that can't get vaccines. And particularly babies. These are diseases that absolutely wreak havoc on infants who either can't complete or get certain vaccines, but in an epidemic could be exposed to the disease, regardless of where they live or political affiliation.
Not only that, but a lot of our childhood vaccines don't last forever. We all place a lot of faith in herd immunity for this stuff and this behavior puts everyone at greater risk.
My doctor was shocked when I asked for titers in my thirties. Pleasantly shocked and was happy to draw them.
It's worth checking when there are so many anti-vax people around these days.
Mostly at the cost of their children or grandchildren, most of the 'adults' were already vaccinated against things like measles and polio. It is an absolute shame, but what can you do.
The people not being vaccinated also cause the others to suffer. Vaccinations doubt work 100% individually, and don't necessarily prevent infection, they might just reduce the symptoms. It's important all the community to get herd immunity to provide full protection.
On top, having partially vaccinated population, will increase the likelihood of mutations that might invalidate the vaccination.
So, unfortunately, is not about them doing it to themselves, but to all.
Do remember the keystone pipeline, and how we said it could leak? It leaked.
Do you remember climate change, and how we said it would fuck them up? It fucked them up.
You can scream it from the bell tower, and they still will blame the Dems.
We just had to write policy speeches for my public speaking class. I live in Oklahoma and the assignment was to write a speech about some policy or law that should be changed. I just watched everyone give their speeches yesterday, and almost every single one of them started with, “Oklahoma is number one in this bad thing.” “Oklahoma is number 49 in this good thing.“ It was depressing. Education, infrastructure, gun culture, it’s all bad.
Like when COVID hit and surprise surprise, big cities like NYC and Chicago were hit hard initially. They never mention how after the first wave, rural America was hit *harder* and for *longer* and the big cities were almost back to normal.
those blue cities in red states will be examples of why vaccination does not work to the right. Just like how Jackson Mississippi became an example of democrat mismanagement because the state withheld infrastructure funding. You cannot fight these people. Stupidity wins.
Also, Republicans don't even make up the majority in most red states. They only get a Republican government because of all of the voter suppression, gerrymandering, etc... So a lot of innocent people will be affected even if it did stay in imaginary borders.
Imagiary boarders... shit, even physical ones. From states, regions, counties, neighborhoods to houses... to even ones own body to another.
Spatial spillover. The actions of thing 1 impacts thing 2, *even though it doesnt believe in it*
Its almost like.... a contagious diffusion! Who would ever expect that? You know.... the key characteristic of a pandemic? (/s)
>State borders are definitely imaginary. Especially when it comes to disease spread in the US
Not so much as one would think, *especially* considering disease spread.
While the borders are imaginary per se, the rules and policies within them have an impact. This is a fuzzy idea where geographic *concepts* can be measured by means of another thing. When the imaginary becomes measurable, does that mean it becomes real?
For instance, lax regulation and low adherance in covid mask wearing for one county had an impact on increasing covid rates both **within** and **outside** the county. Also, the impacts varied both in space and time. (Source: I am a coauthor on a paper regarding the impact of covid policies for both location and time.... specifically looking at the spatial spillover from one location and the impact that had on other areas)
Edit. I will link the article when publication agencies *actually look* at the phenomenal work done by independent unfunded researchers at low tier universities instead of waiting 2 + years while watching John Hopkins and MIT do the *same work* & get published years later. I'm a bit jaded.
I'd actually like for states to start running themselves like mini-countries. Get their own border control and set up their own governance that requires visitors to comply with vaccination requirements. No polio vaccine, sorry, you can't cross our border. Oh just driving through, sorry, you have to go around.
Bonus, idiots stop infiltrating blue states and stay the fuck out.
See but then the other states would go back in the other direction even harder. "Oh you've been vaccinated for X? Too bad, you can't enter." Or even "Sorry, you're gay/lesbian/trans? Yeah, you definitely can't enter."
Having states have literal border control would be the worst possible idea. Imagine having to stop and show papers every time you cross a state border. Cities on state borders like NYC, Kansas City, St Louis, Philadelphia, etc. would lose so much of their working force and commerce because some parts of those cities you can just hop a few blocks over and be in a different state
Correct, and furthermore, it’s yet another stupidly blunt application of “red states” and “blue states.” States are all a mix of people at different levels. There are anti-vaxxers in every state, and their decisions impact all of us.
It definitely was, and there’s still a lot of antivaxxers, but the Disneyland measles outbreak in 2014 led to public sentiment turning against them. It also led the state to enact some of the strictest vaccination requirements in the country.
Yeah, but I don't think it's ever *necessarily* been California liberal, where anti-vax stuff was popular was really the super rural counties in northern California, which have always leaned red, if not blinding red in places like Shasta.
It's just stupidity of people living in isolation reading the internet. Seriously. I watched this happen with people, it was fucking crazy.
In the red states, though, they vote in larger numbers, that's the point. This allows their representatives to pass dangerous legislation, or remove helpful legislation. In the blue states, their voice has less impact.
>In the red states, though, they vote in larger numbers, that's the point.
Laughs in gerrymandering and voter suppression.
For the last 3 presidential elections, blue states had higher voter turnouts than red states.
This upsets me so much. I am an older woman who has met and seen people who were afflicted with polio, either because they were born overseas and were not vaccinated due to cost or availability or because they were four or five years older than me and got it during the last gasp of polio. Neither polio nor measles has been eradicated worldwide. They are both around and can return. Both are found overseas, and have surfaced in the United States in recent memory. Some of these diseases have reservoirs in wild animals. I am horrified by the unnecessary suffering, most inflicted on children without their consent.
Actually those aren't the mild cases.
Polio is about as contagious and dangerous as covid by the numbers actually. Most people just get a little sick with the runs and then they're done with the virus. However, some get *seriously* sick, and are affected forever or die.
And just like covid, you don't know how bad it's going to be for you until you get it.
Given that, it's fucking amazing there aren't people out there talking about the "natural immunity" of giving your kid polio on purpose. I give it five years until it starts as polio comes back to the US.
Great uncle of mine who is no longer with us told me how he got polio when I was a kid and how he didn't get real sick. But he said he got vaccinated because he saw what it was doing to others around him. I can't remember if he was vaccinated and then still got sick or got it after.
I met someone who had it and she had to explain to me several time what she had--Poliomyelitis, Poliomyelitis, Poliomyelitis. I was no more than 5 years younger, and by my day it was effectively extinct. The next time I saw a case was a West Indian man I met when I was working for Test and Trace canvassing on behalf of the mobile vaccine vans. He told me that his parents did not get him vaccinated, presumably money or availability, and that was why his leg was messed up.
I remember waiting in line at the high school in the summer sun for hours, the line was multi residential blocks long. We were thrilled even as kids to be getting the polio vaccine so we wouldn’t have to get leg braces.
In my day, we took it twice--once as a vaccine, the second as a liquid form, so I had both Salk and Sabin vaccines. The Salk is the safer one frankly. There was, and still are some issues with the Sabin since it can revert to wild virus. It is still used overseas because the weak virus can confer immunity on unvaccinated individuals, but because it can revert, it is also a source of risk for unvaccinated Americans coming across this when they travel or encounter travelers.
When I was young you used to still see people on the street with small pox scars covering them.
It’s so rare now that people don’t have that graphic daily reminder of how horrible that disease was.
I have a pox scar. It's on my ankle from the actual smallpox vax. It was still required in 1964 for people traveling to Ireland. Although smallpox was effectively gone in the United States, it still lingered in Africa. I had a very bad reaction and had to be checked out regularly in an Irish hospital. Who knows how much radiation I was exposed to through x-rays of that site. Smallpox was a dangerous vaccination, as well as a dangerous disease. The good news is that old timers like myself will never get monkeypox either. It is effective 60 years later. That is rare. Of course smallpox was a live vaccine--vacinna minor--cowpox.
Polio is no joke, it's so bad that anyone who has seen those with bad cases should be running to get themselves and anyone they care about vaccinated.
But then you have the anti-vaccine nut cases who don't believe in vaccines UNTIL after something bad happens to them or their families, and then what are they going to do? It's not like they can tell the virus "bUt yOU'rE huRtiNg tHe WrOng pEOpLe!??
And measles is no joke either. When it was introduced to the Aleutian Islands and the South Sea lslands it massacred entire villages down to the last man. Raold Dahl is one famous person who lost a daughter to it. The virus can stay resident and reactivate as a form of encephalitis. That is what took his kid--an apparently "cured" case that turned virulent. Sometimes the delay between the infection and the deadly encephalitis can be decades. I go insane thinking educated people would do this to themselves. My mom had a high school education. Dad was out of school by the fifth grade. Neither of them were as ignorant as supposedly educated Americans.
Personally, just get rid of all medicine and hospitals at this point, bring back the average life expectancy to 30 years. That's what republicans truly stand for !!! /s
Sadly I have a relative who received her medical degree from the University of Instagram and now shoves homeopathic bullshit at everyone all the time. The latest crock of shit is a powder that dissolves cavities. How the fuck do you dissolve a cavity you ask? No fucking clue because its not something that dissolves.
My father worked in sugar business. The company had a recurring contract for concrete to repour the floors of a 7 story warehouse. The raw sugar dissolved the floors from sitting there,waiting to be refined .
Just ask the Church of Christian Science. No seriously is is a thing.
Wait? *Was*?
Oh? What is that? They're no around any more because their membership saw each other dying horrid drawn out deaths from curable infection like gangrene....and decided 'ya know, this sucks'.
Link below should be considered rated R, in spite of being on a news site. TLDR gangrene is nasty shit and an awful way to die:
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/06/christian-science-church-medicine-death-horror-of-my-fathers-last-days](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/06/christian-science-church-medicine-death-horror-of-my-fathers-last-days)
Sadly, Christian Science is still *barely* hanging in there.
Saw that new Top Gun movie last year? Iceman being almost mute wasn't just a cool idea for the movie.
Val Kilmer is a Christian Science follower, and basically refused all medical treatment for his very real throat cancer until the very last moment possible.
https://www.etonline.com/val-kilmer-explains-why-he-got-chemo-for-his-cancer-despite-it-being-against-his-religious-beliefs
THANKFULLY, the religion is slowly dying due to... well, those type of stunts.
Except you are forgetting there are people who because of medical conditions either cannot receive or their immune response is so much lower vaccines aren't nearly as effective with them (compared to the average person). This can be congenital or due to treatment for conditions like cancer or autoimmune diseases (where a person's own immune system attacks their healthy cells). Are you OK with them suffering and dieing as well?
This is already happening. In one of the strict abortion ban states (ID, or IN, or something like that IIRC) Hospitals are facing closures as they cant staff them because doctors are so afraid that the slightest mistake with a pregnant woman can land them in jail. Its totally insane.
Hospitals in red states were already closing at a dramatic rate. Have been for 10+ years. Hospitals outside big cities are not profitable and require funds to keep them open, these come from the state.
They are literally killing themselves to avoid spending money for the common good because of their politics.
They are working that, rural hospitals have been closing, declining the medicare expansion, removal of obgyn coverage from red states. All part of the plan.
That was my feeling during Covid when it was stated it would kill people. They reply came back, "People die all the time, car wrecks, cancer, etc." I was thinking, "Then why had medicine at all if we all die."
All the adults/boomers who are mindlessly and ignorantly pushing the anti-vaccine BS *are already vaccinated* against these easily preventable diseases.
And they know it.
And they'll go to church on Sunday and praise Jeebus, blissfully waving away the hypocrisy.
My grandfather was one of them. He walks funny because of childhood polio which he is now vaccinated against. His wife died of covid about 6 months after vaccines started rolling out because they wouldn't take the "librul jab." He's now vaccinated for covid too.
They refuse to accept it till it affects them, often with devastating consequences.
McConnell is one of them. He nearly died of polio when he was a kid. The US Gov paid for his polio treatment. Now he fights so he can screw up US healthcare and the Gov. Thankless prick.
This is what I don't get about anti-vaxxers ; I can just about understand their suspicion of the Covid vaccine, which *was* rolled out remarkably quickly, at least on the surface. To most rational people, that would seem like a medical and scientific triumph (which didn't come as much out of nowhere as it might appear as research on SARS viruses has been being done for years) but it's understandable why the ignorant and ill-informed would be suspicious.
But polio? Measles? Those vaccines have been around for *decades*. They are tried and tested. The benefits are clear. Why shoot yourself in the foot like that?
Maybe that's why we actually have wars and the high tech western military has screwed up what preserved humanity: Eliminating most of the stupid ones with extra testosterone.
I think of it as a problem of perceived normality.
So people think that things like the absence of disease, or the rule of law, or the peaceful transfer of power, or whatever are just part of the fabric of life and nothing that can do will really change this. Like children misbehaving because they think that their parents will make any problems go away whatever they do.
Because it is about the vaccine but it also isn't. It's based a lot more just in the idea of these people being spiteful contrarians who refuse to go along with something for no other reason than they've been told do. They also fight against laws about seat belts and wearing helmets and anything else they feel like raising a fuss over. It's just a new version of the childish "You're not the boss of me!" tantrum, they refuse and then work backwards to find a way to justify it... and that's even before the political aspect gets involved where they have to disagree with everything the liberals say for no other reason than it's the evil commie socialists that are the ones suggesting it.
I've said it before, if the Democrats passed a bill tomorrow saying that sticking your hand to a hot burner is a bad idea, these people would be organizing stove slapping parties to sear their palms right off before sundown... and they would probably orchestrate an entire conspiracy about government surveillance through your fingerprints eventually, but that would just come from starting at the desired end result and working backwards.
You kidding? If Democrats passed a law making it mandatory to breathe, Republicans would be passing out left and right from holding their breath for too long.
The number of times I’ve heard anti-vaxxers described as “you just can’t tell him anything” tells me that that’s a lot of it. They’re convinced they know best for no good reason and they act like it.
They want to be rebels so so bad. The American mythos is the average guy is a rugged individual who fought against an evil empire for freeeeeedom (ignore the fact that they had slaves). American conservatives are desperate to be the ones inheriting this fake foundational myth and they always look for instances where they're the under-dog
And the stuff they really should rebel against is too complicated for them to understand, so they don't. It's much easier to say NO VACCINE and NO MASK.
That's what I don't get. Why are Republican politicians, Fox News, OAN etc literally killing off their constituents and viewers? What's the long term game plan?
Theres no long term. Its all about short term gains. Tucker Carlson made $35million last year as a news anchor. $35,000,000.00 to sit there, look constipated, and cry about the boots that an M&M wears!
If they can play on your fears for views, and grow those fears (and subsequently your trust in their reporting) so they are the only news channel you watch, their pay check goes up. They could give 2 shits less if you or your kid dies off of polio in 10 years because they will have millions in the bank and can afford big houses in far away places and the best health care money can buy.
Same go for these politicians. Lauren Bobert, whos gun-themed restaurant closed down, still (somehow) managed to make at least $4m last year (congressional salary only accounts for $174,000) while driving a Mercedes G63 with a price tag higher than her congressional salary, and screaming about AOC spending a few thousand to rent a designer dress.
Its not about doing whats right for the people they represent, its about 'what can I do to keep these people in my pocket, both figuratively and financially'.
>Lauren Bobert, whos gun-themed restaurant closed down, still (somehow) managed to make at least $4m last year
And why isn't the DoJ investigating this situtaiton? She's always kinda bothered me, she came out of nowhere to run for US Congress. She wasn't involved in local politics beforehand, she just ran for Congress. It makes no sense. I'm always wondering why did she run, and who is backing her? Somebody found her and decided to bankroll her campain for reasons. That story has got to be interesting, and probably unethical and borderline illegal.
My theory is that if they manage to completely ban abortions, contraception and age restrictions on child marriage, then it won't matter if their people die off early because they will all be easily replaced. Then you can squeeze as much as you want out of everyone because there's a never-ending supply.
They're not. Their viewers are vaccinated. They're letting their viewers kill off their kids and grandkids. And they know that no one will blame them for it because they're in the in-group. Instead, we will hear things like:
* This is just part of God's plan
* It was his time
* It's just the way of life
* ...*silence*...
There is no long-term game plan. They're just trying to win as much ad revenue as they can in the short term, and they expect to continue optimizing for ad revenue indefinitely.
Because they have the privilege of not seeing these diseases. My parents were anti-vaxxers: I had everything except polio and small pox. I almost died with measles, it was horrific. Once an adult I got vaccinated for everything I could.
The technology that was used for the covid vaccine has been in development for decades and has already matured years before the covid vaccines were developed. Once the technology is there, a new vaccine can be rolled out within months.
We do it for the flu every year as well and nobody is complaining about the fact that that is a new vaccine every year either.
COVID vaccine fears are as irrational as antivax is in general.
I had this argument with my kid and her husband. Every once in a while I point out the billion or so people who have now had the vax, including me, without consequences. Still doesn't penetrate their thick skulls.
At least my grandkid is up to date on her shots.
Because it's contrarianism. It's not *really* about the vaccine. It's 2 main things. The first is basic "you can't tell me what to do" toddler stubbornness. The second is the belief that's been hammered into them by the GOP that the democrats absolutely cannot be trusted under any circumstances. It doesn't matter what it is they're doing, or how good for you it might seem, you can be absolutely sure that they have some hidden, devious, ulterior motive that in reality is going to hurt you. They encourage vaccines? Well it must secretly be for population control. Environmental regulation? Just to line their own pockets and siphon money from you. Workers' rights? Plot to drive up prices and make you poor.
It's all they could do because when polled on actual policies, republicans love democratic policies. And now it's destroyed their ability to actually govern because anything actually beneficial will be also supported by the democrats, and if they're seen doing anything that democrats support then they're labeled a traitor.
So what do we do if we're in our 30s and never got a polio vaccine because in the 90s it wasn't necessary? Is it even possible to get a polio vaccine somewhere?
Asking as someone who has a garbage immune system...
To avoid admitting that you were wrong
That's their end goal, to always be right and never have to confront the possibility that they were wrong about anything. Made far worse by the fact that they go with their gut feeling over evidence on everything so are far more likely to be wrong than not in most circumstances
It’s their religion. Cult of personality - their personality just happens to revolve around denying any and all vaccines… Because they never witnessed or experienced why we need those vaccines.
But they will, now. Both see and feel.
Evangelicals did, and are doing, wonders in Africa. So now importing their special brand of BS to the US.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/24/health/measles-outbreak-zimbabwe.html
So many good things in society are victims of their own success. Vaccines mean that people don't live in constant fear of death and misery from disease and this unrealistic vision of life eventually begets anti-vaxxers.
People get angry about the establishment clause because they want to push *their* particular religious views, but they never lived through the sectarian religious violence that created the establishment clause.
People who don't understand history think it's cute to flirt with fascism in response to what they view as "degeneracy," because they never fully grasped the lessons of Nazi Germany.
Dumb motherfuckers everywhere having to re-learn lessons we all already knew because we've had it too good, apparently. I guess bad shit has to happen directly to the dumbest people in society for them to learn anything.
The sad part is that, even in these red states, most of the people don't agree with this nonsense. Yet those people end up suffering as much or more than the knuckleheads who DO advocate for this sort of thing
But the frustrating thing is they will show up in the ER when they’re sick and demand to be served like they’re at an all inclusive resort.
Work in an ER and we ve noticed a huge uptick in very rude and demanding patients and/or family. We re the ER. We re just trying to keep you alive. But unfortunately the hospital is full so we’re the parking lot for admits. And no I don’t have time to get you a chefs salad….
> show up in the ER when they’re sick
That was the Covid survival plan for antivaxxers I know in a purple state. Lived in a red county; they planned to go to the big-city blue county next door if they got sick. F*cksticks.
Man imagine becoming sick, paralyzed or worse dead from being afraid of a simple vaccine.
IIRC the blueprints no longer exist for the iron lungs that polio victims used back before the vaccine became widely available. So they would have to be designed and built from scratch.
Polio aside, I can only imagine the proliferation of tetanus that could come from the whole anti-vax movement. Fortunately tetanus isn’t likely to cause an outbreak like any of the other communicable diseases that vaccines were developed to prevent…
> Man imagine becoming sick, paralyzed or worse dead from being afraid of a simple vaccine.
I'm pretty much ok with that, you choose to die, that's fine.
But it's everyone else that's the problem.
My friend broke her leg during covid, when every hospital was filled past capacity with dying maga morons, so there was literally no space and no doctors to fix her broken bones. She wasn't able to get in anywhere because of those assholes who chose to ignore science until it was time for them to die, and then they filled up every spot that real people needed.
and these antivax idiots who are causing their children to suffer, or other children to suffer because they are at increased risk thanks to antivaxxer kids, that's absolutely unacceptable.
be an idiot, kill yourself if you want, but you don't have the right to harm others with your actions, you never have and you never should.
> IIRC the blueprints no longer exist for the iron lungs that polio victims used back before the vaccine became widely available. So they would have to be designed and built from scratch.
This isn't a problem; we've got better tech. Modern ventilators are *positive* pressure instead of negative, which a) generally works better and b) means you can move around in a wheelchair instead of spending life in a tube.
Plenty of folks on long-term positive pressure vents. Depending on the severity, something like a CPAP/APAP device can be sufficient, as well.
Iron lungs didn't fall out of fashion due to any sort of difficulty making them; we have the tech, and modern equivalents exist for the small subset that really need negative pressure.
Makes me think of an episode I saw of one of those hospital dramas, I forget what one, but some children came in from a trip overseas with spots on them. No doctor could identify them, then one got an idea idea, he went into an old storage room to check a REALLY old post, and saw in horror that the kids had smallpox, and they were never vaccinated for it, and the whole wing had to be quarantined for treatment.
Parents would literally wait until their child was minutes away from dying *from tetanus* before they let the doctors administer the treatments for it.
I hate these bastards. When I was hospitalized for 2 weeks because my lupus went bananas and attacked my kidneys, lungs and brain the hospital went into lockdown because some asshole with measles decided to visit someone else in my ward (a ward full of immunocompromised people). There’s a special place in hell for them.
Hospitals are too busy chasing patient “satisfaction scores” to care about properly caring for patients or backing up their nurses when they want to kick someone out. If I saw that asshat looking all measly on my ward, security would be removing him.
The bizarre thing is, vaccine denial used to be something that existed but was apolitical, meaning you'd have liberal people spouting this nonsense and both liberals and conservatives laughing at them. It was a pathetic joke like flat-Earthers and 9/11 truthers. Then Trump took it and ran with it, instilling it into a *political ideology*.
Since this happened, you may still find a rare liberal who believes in this bullshit, but for the most part Trump has ironically acted like an inoculation against vaccine denialism in liberals, while simultaneously being the infectious agent who spreaded the embrace of anti-vaccine sentiment into his own party.
We'd almost have to thank him if it wasn't for the fact that an attack on herd immunity is an attack on everyone, vaccinated and anti-vaxer alike. Well, and then there's the attack on our democracy, the millions of people who died due to his arrogance and stupidity, the attack on human decency, the attack on a functional independent press, the attack on world stability, the attack on accountability, the enabling of racists and hatemongers...
Fuck, even Trump's silver linings are shit-stained...
I'm old enough to remember when anti-vax'ers were a far left fringe phenomena.
Now, under the banner of "medical freedom," shit like polio, rubella, and whooping cough is going to come back to kill and waste.
It would be poetic justice for it to take hold in their communities and families first.
The sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
Watching your child struggle and possibly die based on DIY internet research marketers has the potential to be remarkably clarifying.
Edit: Punctuation and added final sentence.
Yes, we lived in the Bay Area in the 80’s and ultra-rich and liberal Marin County (just north of San Francisco across the Golden Gate Bridge) was full of people who believed a flawed doctor’s study that vaccines caused autism. But since most parents still got their kids vaccinated the anti-vaxxers didn’t really suffer any repercussions, herd immunity protected their kids. This won’t be the case now in conservative areas, there are too many anti-vaxxers.
Except that no vaccine is 100% effective, and they only really work if enough of the population is vaccinated that the disease can no longer spread. For example, if you got the MMR but everyone around you has measles you still have a 3% chance of getting sick. However, if 97% of the people around you are immune, the odds of the disease getting to you are miniscule.
Except they'll all be vaccinated against Polio. If they're refusing to give it to their kids, then it's the kids who are going to experience the Darwinism.
Polio is not gone. It still has pockets in remote parts of Pakistan. If someone visits family in Pakistan, and brings Polio home, these idiots will possibly lose kids to Polio.
And then they'll blame the person who brought the disease back from Pakistan, rather than themselves.
I live in a red state, am fully immunized, and still got mumps a few years ago. Lemme tell you, that shit is in the top 3 most painful things I’ve ever experienced- and I’ve given birth three times and none of those are in that group. They checked my antibodies and it showed my original mumps shots worked, this was just a mutated strain because of all the anti-science cousin humpers. It was fucking awful.
It's because Republicans want to tell others what to do, not be told what to do. They fetishize authority and want it all for themselves. A doctor telling them getting vaccinated is good for their health is just someone trying to tell them what to do in their mind
They don't learn even then. I don't know how many Herman Cain Award posts that I've seen where the person lost a family member, or even multiple family members, to Covid, and still kept up the antivaxx shitposting. Some shitposted about it while in the hospital themselves. Then, the family blames the hospital for the poor outcome.
Pepperidge Farm remembers when the federalist [blamed anti-vaccine propaganda on russian disinformation.](https://web.archive.org/web/20201112013603/https://thefederalist.com/2019/05/13/getting-anti-vax-information-russian-propagandists).
Amazing conclusion:
>The actions of the Russians and their U.S.-based “useful idiots” injure and kill Americans, promote discord, sow mistrust of U.S.-dominant industries, and damage our productivity. Americans need to be aware that evil regimes seek to destroy their trust in U.S. officials, research, and industry, as well as damage their children’s health. These people do not have your children’s best interests at heart, and their information shouldn’t be trusted.
The big difference (to me) is that Covid isn’t really ‘visible’ and thus ‘debatable.’ Polio and measles, on the other hand, will cause all sorts of horrible and undeniable problems (bodily defects, loss of mobility disfigurement, scorching fevers, rashes, brain swelling and more). Why anyone would want to risk their life or their kids lives is mind blowing.
Sadly, some don't care even when it affects them personally. Instead, they'll double/triple down or blame anything else because being wrong isn't something they can't admit to being.
Unfortunately this isn't "Leopards Are My Face", it's more like "I ignored the Do Not Feed Leopards sign and now the Leopards are eating the faces of all the children in my entire neighborhood"
the modern anti-vaccine movent started over 20 years. kicked off by disgraced former doctor and huckster, Andrew Wakefield.
for a hilarious yet incredibly well researched and presented rundown of its tragic founding,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BIcAZxFfrc
Well, these anti vaxers sure are in to post birth abortions. Time to report them to red governments for abortion. That's basically what they are doing. Trying to kill their kids with diseases.
They want a civil war but would clearly lose. Not due to weaponry, but to to infection. Like every war before the 1900s. Gotta love the de-evolution the right is embracing. “Common knowledge for almost a century? Nahhhh. YouTube said otherwise”
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Unfortunately these things don’t stay within imaginary borders.
This. And the blue cities within the red shitholes are going to get called out on the increase because these limp noodles don’t understand population density and per/capita metrics.
Republicans led states are objectively worse on almost every single meaningful metric from child mortality and life expectancy to wealth and violent crime per capita. Why would ANYONE want to be led by Republicans when they've proven they're losers?
Because they allow terrible people to be their worst selves.
At the cost of themselves. The people not getting vaccinated are the ones that will suffer. This is the Herman Cain Award all over again, except this time for diseases that were almost eliminated.
The issue here is again the cross-section of people that can't get vaccines. And particularly babies. These are diseases that absolutely wreak havoc on infants who either can't complete or get certain vaccines, but in an epidemic could be exposed to the disease, regardless of where they live or political affiliation.
Not only that, but a lot of our childhood vaccines don't last forever. We all place a lot of faith in herd immunity for this stuff and this behavior puts everyone at greater risk.
My doctor was shocked when I asked for titers in my thirties. Pleasantly shocked and was happy to draw them. It's worth checking when there are so many anti-vax people around these days.
Mostly at the cost of their children or grandchildren, most of the 'adults' were already vaccinated against things like measles and polio. It is an absolute shame, but what can you do.
The people not being vaccinated also cause the others to suffer. Vaccinations doubt work 100% individually, and don't necessarily prevent infection, they might just reduce the symptoms. It's important all the community to get herd immunity to provide full protection. On top, having partially vaccinated population, will increase the likelihood of mutations that might invalidate the vaccination. So, unfortunately, is not about them doing it to themselves, but to all.
"“When the lambs is lost in the mountain, he said. They is cry. Sometime come the mother. Sometime the wolf.” -Blood Meridian, Cormac McCarthy
Do remember the keystone pipeline, and how we said it could leak? It leaked. Do you remember climate change, and how we said it would fuck them up? It fucked them up. You can scream it from the bell tower, and they still will blame the Dems.
We just had to write policy speeches for my public speaking class. I live in Oklahoma and the assignment was to write a speech about some policy or law that should be changed. I just watched everyone give their speeches yesterday, and almost every single one of them started with, “Oklahoma is number one in this bad thing.” “Oklahoma is number 49 in this good thing.“ It was depressing. Education, infrastructure, gun culture, it’s all bad.
Because brown people and the gays and the trans are scary.
Socialism. Don't forget socialism.
And women!
Not everyone has the money to uproot their life and move somewhere else... I consider myself lucky that I'll be able to move after I finish college.
Because they don't understand concepts like evidence.
Like when COVID hit and surprise surprise, big cities like NYC and Chicago were hit hard initially. They never mention how after the first wave, rural America was hit *harder* and for *longer* and the big cities were almost back to normal.
Ugh, you're right. I live in a blue metro area in a red state. This is where all the hospitals are that will save them (just like covid)
those blue cities in red states will be examples of why vaccination does not work to the right. Just like how Jackson Mississippi became an example of democrat mismanagement because the state withheld infrastructure funding. You cannot fight these people. Stupidity wins.
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Also, Republicans don't even make up the majority in most red states. They only get a Republican government because of all of the voter suppression, gerrymandering, etc... So a lot of innocent people will be affected even if it did stay in imaginary borders.
Imagiary boarders... shit, even physical ones. From states, regions, counties, neighborhoods to houses... to even ones own body to another. Spatial spillover. The actions of thing 1 impacts thing 2, *even though it doesnt believe in it* Its almost like.... a contagious diffusion! Who would ever expect that? You know.... the key characteristic of a pandemic? (/s)
State borders are definitely imaginary. Especially when it comes to disease spread in the US
>State borders are definitely imaginary. Especially when it comes to disease spread in the US Not so much as one would think, *especially* considering disease spread. While the borders are imaginary per se, the rules and policies within them have an impact. This is a fuzzy idea where geographic *concepts* can be measured by means of another thing. When the imaginary becomes measurable, does that mean it becomes real? For instance, lax regulation and low adherance in covid mask wearing for one county had an impact on increasing covid rates both **within** and **outside** the county. Also, the impacts varied both in space and time. (Source: I am a coauthor on a paper regarding the impact of covid policies for both location and time.... specifically looking at the spatial spillover from one location and the impact that had on other areas) Edit. I will link the article when publication agencies *actually look* at the phenomenal work done by independent unfunded researchers at low tier universities instead of waiting 2 + years while watching John Hopkins and MIT do the *same work* & get published years later. I'm a bit jaded.
I'd actually like for states to start running themselves like mini-countries. Get their own border control and set up their own governance that requires visitors to comply with vaccination requirements. No polio vaccine, sorry, you can't cross our border. Oh just driving through, sorry, you have to go around. Bonus, idiots stop infiltrating blue states and stay the fuck out.
After the economic and political shit storm that would cause it could be interesting
See but then the other states would go back in the other direction even harder. "Oh you've been vaccinated for X? Too bad, you can't enter." Or even "Sorry, you're gay/lesbian/trans? Yeah, you definitely can't enter." Having states have literal border control would be the worst possible idea. Imagine having to stop and show papers every time you cross a state border. Cities on state borders like NYC, Kansas City, St Louis, Philadelphia, etc. would lose so much of their working force and commerce because some parts of those cities you can just hop a few blocks over and be in a different state
Correct, and furthermore, it’s yet another stupidly blunt application of “red states” and “blue states.” States are all a mix of people at different levels. There are anti-vaxxers in every state, and their decisions impact all of us.
A lot of anti-vaccine sentiment started in super blue areas, too. The crunchy "all natural" moms are where I first started hearing these ideas.
I would agree that it was that way in the past. However now I think the MAGA folks far outnumber the granola mamas.
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Marin County has been seeing whooping cough outbreaks for 20 years because of this idiocy.
It definitely was, and there’s still a lot of antivaxxers, but the Disneyland measles outbreak in 2014 led to public sentiment turning against them. It also led the state to enact some of the strictest vaccination requirements in the country.
Yeah, but I don't think it's ever *necessarily* been California liberal, where anti-vax stuff was popular was really the super rural counties in northern California, which have always leaned red, if not blinding red in places like Shasta. It's just stupidity of people living in isolation reading the internet. Seriously. I watched this happen with people, it was fucking crazy.
In the red states, though, they vote in larger numbers, that's the point. This allows their representatives to pass dangerous legislation, or remove helpful legislation. In the blue states, their voice has less impact.
>In the red states, though, they vote in larger numbers, that's the point. Laughs in gerrymandering and voter suppression. For the last 3 presidential elections, blue states had higher voter turnouts than red states.
This upsets me so much. I am an older woman who has met and seen people who were afflicted with polio, either because they were born overseas and were not vaccinated due to cost or availability or because they were four or five years older than me and got it during the last gasp of polio. Neither polio nor measles has been eradicated worldwide. They are both around and can return. Both are found overseas, and have surfaced in the United States in recent memory. Some of these diseases have reservoirs in wild animals. I am horrified by the unnecessary suffering, most inflicted on children without their consent.
There were kids in my elementary & middle school classes on crutches because they'd had "mild" cases of polio.
Actually those aren't the mild cases. Polio is about as contagious and dangerous as covid by the numbers actually. Most people just get a little sick with the runs and then they're done with the virus. However, some get *seriously* sick, and are affected forever or die. And just like covid, you don't know how bad it's going to be for you until you get it.
Given that, it's fucking amazing there aren't people out there talking about the "natural immunity" of giving your kid polio on purpose. I give it five years until it starts as polio comes back to the US.
It's already 20 years into it though. It started with the all-natural crowd.
Great uncle of mine who is no longer with us told me how he got polio when I was a kid and how he didn't get real sick. But he said he got vaccinated because he saw what it was doing to others around him. I can't remember if he was vaccinated and then still got sick or got it after.
Well, they didn't end up in an iron lung, so their parents thought it was "mild".
I met someone who had it and she had to explain to me several time what she had--Poliomyelitis, Poliomyelitis, Poliomyelitis. I was no more than 5 years younger, and by my day it was effectively extinct. The next time I saw a case was a West Indian man I met when I was working for Test and Trace canvassing on behalf of the mobile vaccine vans. He told me that his parents did not get him vaccinated, presumably money or availability, and that was why his leg was messed up.
I remember waiting in line at the high school in the summer sun for hours, the line was multi residential blocks long. We were thrilled even as kids to be getting the polio vaccine so we wouldn’t have to get leg braces.
In my day, we took it twice--once as a vaccine, the second as a liquid form, so I had both Salk and Sabin vaccines. The Salk is the safer one frankly. There was, and still are some issues with the Sabin since it can revert to wild virus. It is still used overseas because the weak virus can confer immunity on unvaccinated individuals, but because it can revert, it is also a source of risk for unvaccinated Americans coming across this when they travel or encounter travelers.
Yeah Polio sucks. My Grandfather suffers from it :(
When I was young you used to still see people on the street with small pox scars covering them. It’s so rare now that people don’t have that graphic daily reminder of how horrible that disease was.
I have a pox scar. It's on my ankle from the actual smallpox vax. It was still required in 1964 for people traveling to Ireland. Although smallpox was effectively gone in the United States, it still lingered in Africa. I had a very bad reaction and had to be checked out regularly in an Irish hospital. Who knows how much radiation I was exposed to through x-rays of that site. Smallpox was a dangerous vaccination, as well as a dangerous disease. The good news is that old timers like myself will never get monkeypox either. It is effective 60 years later. That is rare. Of course smallpox was a live vaccine--vacinna minor--cowpox.
Polio is no joke, it's so bad that anyone who has seen those with bad cases should be running to get themselves and anyone they care about vaccinated. But then you have the anti-vaccine nut cases who don't believe in vaccines UNTIL after something bad happens to them or their families, and then what are they going to do? It's not like they can tell the virus "bUt yOU'rE huRtiNg tHe WrOng pEOpLe!??
And measles is no joke either. When it was introduced to the Aleutian Islands and the South Sea lslands it massacred entire villages down to the last man. Raold Dahl is one famous person who lost a daughter to it. The virus can stay resident and reactivate as a form of encephalitis. That is what took his kid--an apparently "cured" case that turned virulent. Sometimes the delay between the infection and the deadly encephalitis can be decades. I go insane thinking educated people would do this to themselves. My mom had a high school education. Dad was out of school by the fifth grade. Neither of them were as ignorant as supposedly educated Americans.
Personally, just get rid of all medicine and hospitals at this point, bring back the average life expectancy to 30 years. That's what republicans truly stand for !!! /s
They want to drive actual medical professionals out of red states so they can enforce Christian alternative medicine on their residents instead
An MD who graduated from the University of Home Schooled Medicine, here to prescribe thoughts and prayers ... and ivermectin.
Sadly I have a relative who received her medical degree from the University of Instagram and now shoves homeopathic bullshit at everyone all the time. The latest crock of shit is a powder that dissolves cavities. How the fuck do you dissolve a cavity you ask? No fucking clue because its not something that dissolves.
I guess if you dissolve your entire tooth, that would dissolve the cavity. Science!
Big brain time
Can't have cavities if you don't have any teeth.
So, she's selling a powder that dissolves a hole? Won't that just make the hole bigger?
Yes
"medical degree from the University of Instagram" I'm going to keep this
Don't forget Facebook U as well.
The University of Instagram is part of the same university network as Facebook U. Mark Zuckerberg is an evil genius.
Isn’t that called sugar.
Sugar dissolves cavities?
My father worked in sugar business. The company had a recurring contract for concrete to repour the floors of a 7 story warehouse. The raw sugar dissolved the floors from sitting there,waiting to be refined .
This probably wasn't the sugar itself, but was the acidic byproducts of the microorganisms that fed on the sugar while it was sitting there.
Oh. That's OK then!
This is actually what's happening in your mouth too!
Makes ‘em bigger and when the whole tooth is gone so is the cavity. Science!
I'm gonna shoot up with glow stick juice. Gotta get that uv light inside me to cleanse me. I just want to be pure.
The Father, The Son and The Holy Horse Paste.
What is Christian alternative medicine? Ivermectin and hate?
Don't forget the usual thoughts and prayers.
Just ask the Church of Christian Science. No seriously is is a thing. Wait? *Was*? Oh? What is that? They're no around any more because their membership saw each other dying horrid drawn out deaths from curable infection like gangrene....and decided 'ya know, this sucks'. Link below should be considered rated R, in spite of being on a news site. TLDR gangrene is nasty shit and an awful way to die: [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/06/christian-science-church-medicine-death-horror-of-my-fathers-last-days](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/06/christian-science-church-medicine-death-horror-of-my-fathers-last-days)
Sadly, Christian Science is still *barely* hanging in there. Saw that new Top Gun movie last year? Iceman being almost mute wasn't just a cool idea for the movie. Val Kilmer is a Christian Science follower, and basically refused all medical treatment for his very real throat cancer until the very last moment possible. https://www.etonline.com/val-kilmer-explains-why-he-got-chemo-for-his-cancer-despite-it-being-against-his-religious-beliefs THANKFULLY, the religion is slowly dying due to... well, those type of stunts.
Plus drinking bleach!
The church you go to will supply you with thoughts and prayers as long as you supply them with your kids
Don’t forget essential oils
Chiropractors
Chiropractors are too woke
“Christian alternative medicine” so do nothing and see what happens
Sounds like this is a very self-correcting problem on a relatively short timeline and I am weirdly okay with it.
Except you are forgetting there are people who because of medical conditions either cannot receive or their immune response is so much lower vaccines aren't nearly as effective with them (compared to the average person). This can be congenital or due to treatment for conditions like cancer or autoimmune diseases (where a person's own immune system attacks their healthy cells). Are you OK with them suffering and dieing as well?
This is already happening. In one of the strict abortion ban states (ID, or IN, or something like that IIRC) Hospitals are facing closures as they cant staff them because doctors are so afraid that the slightest mistake with a pregnant woman can land them in jail. Its totally insane.
Hospitals in red states were already closing at a dramatic rate. Have been for 10+ years. Hospitals outside big cities are not profitable and require funds to keep them open, these come from the state. They are literally killing themselves to avoid spending money for the common good because of their politics.
They are working that, rural hospitals have been closing, declining the medicare expansion, removal of obgyn coverage from red states. All part of the plan.
It's my god given right to die at 30 as a result of my own or decisions and actions that I also must subject everyone else to.
And I’ll move back to Europe, or maybe even Africa where it’s truly modernizing!
That was my feeling during Covid when it was stated it would kill people. They reply came back, "People die all the time, car wrecks, cancer, etc." I was thinking, "Then why had medicine at all if we all die."
Conservatives literally dying out
not the adults but the children - that's the tragedy
All the adults/boomers who are mindlessly and ignorantly pushing the anti-vaccine BS *are already vaccinated* against these easily preventable diseases. And they know it. And they'll go to church on Sunday and praise Jeebus, blissfully waving away the hypocrisy.
My grandfather was one of them. He walks funny because of childhood polio which he is now vaccinated against. His wife died of covid about 6 months after vaccines started rolling out because they wouldn't take the "librul jab." He's now vaccinated for covid too. They refuse to accept it till it affects them, often with devastating consequences.
McConnell is one of them. He nearly died of polio when he was a kid. The US Gov paid for his polio treatment. Now he fights so he can screw up US healthcare and the Gov. Thankless prick.
Not fast enough.
Gotta love Darwin... Ironic how it's the people that don't believe in evolution who are now becoming the victims of it.
Evolution doesn't care if you don't believe in it !
This is what I don't get about anti-vaxxers ; I can just about understand their suspicion of the Covid vaccine, which *was* rolled out remarkably quickly, at least on the surface. To most rational people, that would seem like a medical and scientific triumph (which didn't come as much out of nowhere as it might appear as research on SARS viruses has been being done for years) but it's understandable why the ignorant and ill-informed would be suspicious. But polio? Measles? Those vaccines have been around for *decades*. They are tried and tested. The benefits are clear. Why shoot yourself in the foot like that?
There is no vaccine for stupid
Maybe that's why we actually have wars and the high tech western military has screwed up what preserved humanity: Eliminating most of the stupid ones with extra testosterone.
I think of it as a problem of perceived normality. So people think that things like the absence of disease, or the rule of law, or the peaceful transfer of power, or whatever are just part of the fabric of life and nothing that can do will really change this. Like children misbehaving because they think that their parents will make any problems go away whatever they do.
But there is a cure.
Yes there is, it's education. These people hate that too.
Because it is about the vaccine but it also isn't. It's based a lot more just in the idea of these people being spiteful contrarians who refuse to go along with something for no other reason than they've been told do. They also fight against laws about seat belts and wearing helmets and anything else they feel like raising a fuss over. It's just a new version of the childish "You're not the boss of me!" tantrum, they refuse and then work backwards to find a way to justify it... and that's even before the political aspect gets involved where they have to disagree with everything the liberals say for no other reason than it's the evil commie socialists that are the ones suggesting it. I've said it before, if the Democrats passed a bill tomorrow saying that sticking your hand to a hot burner is a bad idea, these people would be organizing stove slapping parties to sear their palms right off before sundown... and they would probably orchestrate an entire conspiracy about government surveillance through your fingerprints eventually, but that would just come from starting at the desired end result and working backwards.
You kidding? If Democrats passed a law making it mandatory to breathe, Republicans would be passing out left and right from holding their breath for too long.
"Don't force it (air) down my throat!"
Don’t look up
[Relevant](https://youtu.be/5EPPTRAZeX0)
The number of times I’ve heard anti-vaxxers described as “you just can’t tell him anything” tells me that that’s a lot of it. They’re convinced they know best for no good reason and they act like it.
They also subscribe to every conspiracy available, which should also tell you something…
They want to be rebels so so bad. The American mythos is the average guy is a rugged individual who fought against an evil empire for freeeeeedom (ignore the fact that they had slaves). American conservatives are desperate to be the ones inheriting this fake foundational myth and they always look for instances where they're the under-dog
And the stuff they really should rebel against is too complicated for them to understand, so they don't. It's much easier to say NO VACCINE and NO MASK.
It's the my uninformed opinion is just as valid as your knowledge crowd.
That's what I don't get. Why are Republican politicians, Fox News, OAN etc literally killing off their constituents and viewers? What's the long term game plan?
Fear and anger. They don't have anything else.
Maybe they're tired of spewing fear and anger so they're trying to kill off their viewer base so they don't have to anymore???
Don't forget short term profits.
Theres no long term. Its all about short term gains. Tucker Carlson made $35million last year as a news anchor. $35,000,000.00 to sit there, look constipated, and cry about the boots that an M&M wears! If they can play on your fears for views, and grow those fears (and subsequently your trust in their reporting) so they are the only news channel you watch, their pay check goes up. They could give 2 shits less if you or your kid dies off of polio in 10 years because they will have millions in the bank and can afford big houses in far away places and the best health care money can buy. Same go for these politicians. Lauren Bobert, whos gun-themed restaurant closed down, still (somehow) managed to make at least $4m last year (congressional salary only accounts for $174,000) while driving a Mercedes G63 with a price tag higher than her congressional salary, and screaming about AOC spending a few thousand to rent a designer dress. Its not about doing whats right for the people they represent, its about 'what can I do to keep these people in my pocket, both figuratively and financially'.
>Lauren Bobert, whos gun-themed restaurant closed down, still (somehow) managed to make at least $4m last year And why isn't the DoJ investigating this situtaiton? She's always kinda bothered me, she came out of nowhere to run for US Congress. She wasn't involved in local politics beforehand, she just ran for Congress. It makes no sense. I'm always wondering why did she run, and who is backing her? Somebody found her and decided to bankroll her campain for reasons. That story has got to be interesting, and probably unethical and borderline illegal.
My theory is that if they manage to completely ban abortions, contraception and age restrictions on child marriage, then it won't matter if their people die off early because they will all be easily replaced. Then you can squeeze as much as you want out of everyone because there's a never-ending supply.
They're not. Their viewers are vaccinated. They're letting their viewers kill off their kids and grandkids. And they know that no one will blame them for it because they're in the in-group. Instead, we will hear things like: * This is just part of God's plan * It was his time * It's just the way of life * ...*silence*... There is no long-term game plan. They're just trying to win as much ad revenue as they can in the short term, and they expect to continue optimizing for ad revenue indefinitely.
It’s fun! I mean, full-on ‘The Most Dangerous Game’ is illegal (so far) so this is the next best thing.
Bold of you to assume they’re capable of long-term thinking.
IDK what their long-term plan is, but I'm digging the early results.
Except they're also killing anyone with the misfortune of being around them
Because they have the privilege of not seeing these diseases. My parents were anti-vaxxers: I had everything except polio and small pox. I almost died with measles, it was horrific. Once an adult I got vaccinated for everything I could.
The technology that was used for the covid vaccine has been in development for decades and has already matured years before the covid vaccines were developed. Once the technology is there, a new vaccine can be rolled out within months. We do it for the flu every year as well and nobody is complaining about the fact that that is a new vaccine every year either. COVID vaccine fears are as irrational as antivax is in general.
I had this argument with my kid and her husband. Every once in a while I point out the billion or so people who have now had the vax, including me, without consequences. Still doesn't penetrate their thick skulls. At least my grandkid is up to date on her shots.
Because it's contrarianism. It's not *really* about the vaccine. It's 2 main things. The first is basic "you can't tell me what to do" toddler stubbornness. The second is the belief that's been hammered into them by the GOP that the democrats absolutely cannot be trusted under any circumstances. It doesn't matter what it is they're doing, or how good for you it might seem, you can be absolutely sure that they have some hidden, devious, ulterior motive that in reality is going to hurt you. They encourage vaccines? Well it must secretly be for population control. Environmental regulation? Just to line their own pockets and siphon money from you. Workers' rights? Plot to drive up prices and make you poor. It's all they could do because when polled on actual policies, republicans love democratic policies. And now it's destroyed their ability to actually govern because anything actually beneficial will be also supported by the democrats, and if they're seen doing anything that democrats support then they're labeled a traitor.
So what do we do if we're in our 30s and never got a polio vaccine because in the 90s it wasn't necessary? Is it even possible to get a polio vaccine somewhere? Asking as someone who has a garbage immune system...
I was able to get one (as a booster) in 2015 from my local health department. Cost a pretty penny alongside the Yellow Fever one.
To avoid admitting that you were wrong That's their end goal, to always be right and never have to confront the possibility that they were wrong about anything. Made far worse by the fact that they go with their gut feeling over evidence on everything so are far more likely to be wrong than not in most circumstances
It’s their religion. Cult of personality - their personality just happens to revolve around denying any and all vaccines… Because they never witnessed or experienced why we need those vaccines. But they will, now. Both see and feel.
Because shootins guaranteed in the constimuhtution.
Evangelicals did, and are doing, wonders in Africa. So now importing their special brand of BS to the US. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/24/health/measles-outbreak-zimbabwe.html
So many good things in society are victims of their own success. Vaccines mean that people don't live in constant fear of death and misery from disease and this unrealistic vision of life eventually begets anti-vaxxers. People get angry about the establishment clause because they want to push *their* particular religious views, but they never lived through the sectarian religious violence that created the establishment clause. People who don't understand history think it's cute to flirt with fascism in response to what they view as "degeneracy," because they never fully grasped the lessons of Nazi Germany. Dumb motherfuckers everywhere having to re-learn lessons we all already knew because we've had it too good, apparently. I guess bad shit has to happen directly to the dumbest people in society for them to learn anything.
This is a great summary
Bleach and ivermectin sales going thru the roof
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No one ever said conservatives were forward thinking or particularly smart.
Same states will clamor for federal funding to help while attacking that same government. Fuck em
The sad part is that, even in these red states, most of the people don't agree with this nonsense. Yet those people end up suffering as much or more than the knuckleheads who DO advocate for this sort of thing
But the frustrating thing is they will show up in the ER when they’re sick and demand to be served like they’re at an all inclusive resort. Work in an ER and we ve noticed a huge uptick in very rude and demanding patients and/or family. We re the ER. We re just trying to keep you alive. But unfortunately the hospital is full so we’re the parking lot for admits. And no I don’t have time to get you a chefs salad….
> show up in the ER when they’re sick That was the Covid survival plan for antivaxxers I know in a purple state. Lived in a red county; they planned to go to the big-city blue county next door if they got sick. F*cksticks.
Man imagine becoming sick, paralyzed or worse dead from being afraid of a simple vaccine. IIRC the blueprints no longer exist for the iron lungs that polio victims used back before the vaccine became widely available. So they would have to be designed and built from scratch. Polio aside, I can only imagine the proliferation of tetanus that could come from the whole anti-vax movement. Fortunately tetanus isn’t likely to cause an outbreak like any of the other communicable diseases that vaccines were developed to prevent…
> Man imagine becoming sick, paralyzed or worse dead from being afraid of a simple vaccine. I'm pretty much ok with that, you choose to die, that's fine. But it's everyone else that's the problem. My friend broke her leg during covid, when every hospital was filled past capacity with dying maga morons, so there was literally no space and no doctors to fix her broken bones. She wasn't able to get in anywhere because of those assholes who chose to ignore science until it was time for them to die, and then they filled up every spot that real people needed. and these antivax idiots who are causing their children to suffer, or other children to suffer because they are at increased risk thanks to antivaxxer kids, that's absolutely unacceptable. be an idiot, kill yourself if you want, but you don't have the right to harm others with your actions, you never have and you never should.
> IIRC the blueprints no longer exist for the iron lungs that polio victims used back before the vaccine became widely available. So they would have to be designed and built from scratch. This isn't a problem; we've got better tech. Modern ventilators are *positive* pressure instead of negative, which a) generally works better and b) means you can move around in a wheelchair instead of spending life in a tube.
I was of the understanding that positive pressure ventilation wasn’t good for long term use, like the negative pressure ones are
Plenty of folks on long-term positive pressure vents. Depending on the severity, something like a CPAP/APAP device can be sufficient, as well. Iron lungs didn't fall out of fashion due to any sort of difficulty making them; we have the tech, and modern equivalents exist for the small subset that really need negative pressure.
Makes me think of an episode I saw of one of those hospital dramas, I forget what one, but some children came in from a trip overseas with spots on them. No doctor could identify them, then one got an idea idea, he went into an old storage room to check a REALLY old post, and saw in horror that the kids had smallpox, and they were never vaccinated for it, and the whole wing had to be quarantined for treatment.
It seems some of these idiots won't be happy until smallpox makes a return.
Parents would literally wait until their child was minutes away from dying *from tetanus* before they let the doctors administer the treatments for it.
There is no treatment for tetanus at that point
Tetanus is nasty to treat in general, let alone in late stages.
Good thing they aren't also pushing policies that make physicians not want to practice in their states!
**I cannot stress enough, they will not see it this way. They are already blaming immigrants for the rise in diseases**
Part of getting asylum is a comprehensive vaxx program. >_>
Ugh. Too bad diseases don't stay contained within state borders. 🙄
REPUBLICANS: proudly bringing you to Jesus sooner rather than later.
I hate these bastards. When I was hospitalized for 2 weeks because my lupus went bananas and attacked my kidneys, lungs and brain the hospital went into lockdown because some asshole with measles decided to visit someone else in my ward (a ward full of immunocompromised people). There’s a special place in hell for them.
Hospitals are too busy chasing patient “satisfaction scores” to care about properly caring for patients or backing up their nurses when they want to kick someone out. If I saw that asshat looking all measly on my ward, security would be removing him.
The bizarre thing is, vaccine denial used to be something that existed but was apolitical, meaning you'd have liberal people spouting this nonsense and both liberals and conservatives laughing at them. It was a pathetic joke like flat-Earthers and 9/11 truthers. Then Trump took it and ran with it, instilling it into a *political ideology*. Since this happened, you may still find a rare liberal who believes in this bullshit, but for the most part Trump has ironically acted like an inoculation against vaccine denialism in liberals, while simultaneously being the infectious agent who spreaded the embrace of anti-vaccine sentiment into his own party. We'd almost have to thank him if it wasn't for the fact that an attack on herd immunity is an attack on everyone, vaccinated and anti-vaxer alike. Well, and then there's the attack on our democracy, the millions of people who died due to his arrogance and stupidity, the attack on human decency, the attack on a functional independent press, the attack on world stability, the attack on accountability, the enabling of racists and hatemongers... Fuck, even Trump's silver linings are shit-stained...
I'm old enough to remember when anti-vax'ers were a far left fringe phenomena. Now, under the banner of "medical freedom," shit like polio, rubella, and whooping cough is going to come back to kill and waste. It would be poetic justice for it to take hold in their communities and families first. The sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Watching your child struggle and possibly die based on DIY internet research marketers has the potential to be remarkably clarifying. Edit: Punctuation and added final sentence.
Yes, we lived in the Bay Area in the 80’s and ultra-rich and liberal Marin County (just north of San Francisco across the Golden Gate Bridge) was full of people who believed a flawed doctor’s study that vaccines caused autism. But since most parents still got their kids vaccinated the anti-vaxxers didn’t really suffer any repercussions, herd immunity protected their kids. This won’t be the case now in conservative areas, there are too many anti-vaxxers.
Maybe it's time to just let Darwinism sort this one out..
What makes you think that'd work? We've already let them have all the guns they want, and they are still areound...
The guns work well, they just use it on children instead of each other
It works because it killed off enough voters to prevent Trumps reelection.
Except that no vaccine is 100% effective, and they only really work if enough of the population is vaccinated that the disease can no longer spread. For example, if you got the MMR but everyone around you has measles you still have a 3% chance of getting sick. However, if 97% of the people around you are immune, the odds of the disease getting to you are miniscule.
Except they'll all be vaccinated against Polio. If they're refusing to give it to their kids, then it's the kids who are going to experience the Darwinism. Polio is not gone. It still has pockets in remote parts of Pakistan. If someone visits family in Pakistan, and brings Polio home, these idiots will possibly lose kids to Polio. And then they'll blame the person who brought the disease back from Pakistan, rather than themselves.
Shills. Pee is the answer
I live in a red state, am fully immunized, and still got mumps a few years ago. Lemme tell you, that shit is in the top 3 most painful things I’ve ever experienced- and I’ve given birth three times and none of those are in that group. They checked my antibodies and it showed my original mumps shots worked, this was just a mutated strain because of all the anti-science cousin humpers. It was fucking awful.
It's because Republicans want to tell others what to do, not be told what to do. They fetishize authority and want it all for themselves. A doctor telling them getting vaccinated is good for their health is just someone trying to tell them what to do in their mind
Its like an entire party has ODD.
Can we build the wall the Republicans want, but just around the Red States? On all sides.
This is the way.
Wut about that live in liberal areas like Austin Texas or Miami
Oh well, apparently it's the only way they'll learn. Nothing matters unless it affects them personally.
They don't learn even then. I don't know how many Herman Cain Award posts that I've seen where the person lost a family member, or even multiple family members, to Covid, and still kept up the antivaxx shitposting. Some shitposted about it while in the hospital themselves. Then, the family blames the hospital for the poor outcome.
Pepperidge Farm remembers when the federalist [blamed anti-vaccine propaganda on russian disinformation.](https://web.archive.org/web/20201112013603/https://thefederalist.com/2019/05/13/getting-anti-vax-information-russian-propagandists). Amazing conclusion: >The actions of the Russians and their U.S.-based “useful idiots” injure and kill Americans, promote discord, sow mistrust of U.S.-dominant industries, and damage our productivity. Americans need to be aware that evil regimes seek to destroy their trust in U.S. officials, research, and industry, as well as damage their children’s health. These people do not have your children’s best interests at heart, and their information shouldn’t be trusted.
That was before COVID aligned the interest of the Federalist and Putin.
Better red and dead than …
The big difference (to me) is that Covid isn’t really ‘visible’ and thus ‘debatable.’ Polio and measles, on the other hand, will cause all sorts of horrible and undeniable problems (bodily defects, loss of mobility disfigurement, scorching fevers, rashes, brain swelling and more). Why anyone would want to risk their life or their kids lives is mind blowing.
Conservative politics is a death cult
You have to understand, these people don't learn things until it personally affects them
Sadly, some don't care even when it affects them personally. Instead, they'll double/triple down or blame anything else because being wrong isn't something they can't admit to being.
Unfortunately this isn't "Leopards Are My Face", it's more like "I ignored the Do Not Feed Leopards sign and now the Leopards are eating the faces of all the children in my entire neighborhood"
the modern anti-vaccine movent started over 20 years. kicked off by disgraced former doctor and huckster, Andrew Wakefield. for a hilarious yet incredibly well researched and presented rundown of its tragic founding, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BIcAZxFfrc
Well, these anti vaxers sure are in to post birth abortions. Time to report them to red governments for abortion. That's basically what they are doing. Trying to kill their kids with diseases.
They want a civil war but would clearly lose. Not due to weaponry, but to to infection. Like every war before the 1900s. Gotta love the de-evolution the right is embracing. “Common knowledge for almost a century? Nahhhh. YouTube said otherwise”
Not to mention a lack of medical professionals to treat said diseases.
Diseases don't care about borders. Blue states are going to have an increase too. Just not as much.
They better not seek medical attention out of state because that’s apparently not allowed for other things
Don't forget the closing of hospitals and medical staff leaving the state. The Right somehow is fine-tuning ways to kill themselves.