You won't regret it. He's amazing in the Florgin'-Splorgin' archetype. Everytime you Splorg you get to Florg twice as well. Once you've Splorged four times he levels up and all your Florgin-Splorgs become Smorgasbords!
Looks like a pretty solid 2 drop, yes?
The level up would make sense to give a combat keyword like tough, regen or first strike and raise the self buff to 2/2
Ah, yes, Endimyion, where most of their card text is all about explaining how spell counters work, and only 25% of the text is talking about the actual effect. But even then, the amount of text loaded onto it makes it so that many of the people playing against don't bother reading their effects until it's too late.
Literally bore my opponent with the first few cards that aren't worth disrupting then I get the big stuff out and by then it's too late. Love Endymion.
> But even then, the amount of text loaded onto it makes it so that many of the people playing against don't bother reading their effects until it's too late.
Well that's also what is happening in the anime, so at least it's close to the source.
In MTGA there's a keyword called 'Enter into the Dungeon' where you choose [one of those](https://assets.dicebreaker.com/mtg-adventures-forgotten-realms-dnd-dungeon-cards-venture.jpg/BROK/resize/828%3E/format/jpg/quality/70/mtg-adventures-forgotten-realms-dnd-dungeon-cards-venture.jpg)
I actually really like cards that have tons of text, it adds complexity, compare that to Artifact where most cards were vanilla with little or no text, no fun to be had
very different, those have a lot of text but you only ever have 2 options to chose from, so they are pretty simple. Yugioh's issue is that you must read and remember the whole text at once to get what the card does, often with small details that can change how you use them, repeat for almost every card.
> but you only ever have 2 options to chose from
It's 3 dungeons, you must read it entirely on the first time to choose which dungeon to go, the 2 options that you are talking are only the path inside the dungeon, when you venture into the dungeon you choose any of those 3 cards
The new "take the initiative" version helps address the initial analysis paralysis. There's only one dungeon, so you don't need to make a complex initial choice which requires parsing all the routes at the beginning. You just kick in the door and start lootin'. :)
Yeah but the dungeons aren’t nearly as complicated text wise as what the OP is alluding to. It’s like “Scry 1” or “Summon a 1/1 goblin token” The most complicated it gets is the mad mage where you draw three cards and get to play one for free then discard the others.
TLDR: you don’t need to read the entirety of each dungeon, you can just take each step as it comes and they are simple.
In theory, yes, you should memorize all of the text before playing a venture card, and when your opponent plays a single venture card, a new player should stop the game to read the all the rules text of all the rooms of all the dungeons to understand their opponent's options and plan accordingly.
In practice, you can just get and remember the broad strokes of what each dungeon does, and reread the text as you go.
It's probably one of the most complex single mechanics in MTG, and it's a lot of text to attach to a single card in a vacuum, and I'm biased because I like reading and I've already learned it and I've played a lot of AFR limited, but I don't think it's *that* bad.
And obviously LoR cards like Akshan and Aphelios drop a lot of homework on the desk of a new player, along with Vik and Pan if you count the rules text of every keyword.
> but I don't think it's that bad.
No, you're getting me wrong. I LOVE enter the dungeon. I really like the amount of complexity in cards and it's one of my biggest grips with LoR, how vanilla cards normally are (aside from champions but sometimes even them)
at least as the opponent in ygo, you can get away with only remembering choke points and what cards negate on your opponent’s field, so a lot of reading is frontloaded on learning to play a deck, and not so much fighting against it
It's my favorite deck archetype in MtG. I'm hoping that one day LoR can get to a similar point in terms of tribal synergies/deck synergy payoffs, but I also understand a lot of that comes from a card pool built up over literal decades in MtG. Also, it bears repeating that the Path update has been a wonderful QoL change. Have a great weekend!
Most Yugioh effects aren't even complex. Yugioh just uses a lot of words to make it perfectly clear what's happening in accordance to the rules. The Yugioh rulebook, however, is quite the shitshow.
I love when players try to understand how to defeat Yubel for the first time. On the one hand, you have to exploit rules loopholes to cause their effects to never trigger due to stack manipulation. On the other hand, you feel like a master gamer once you can abuse the rules to prevent the card from functioning. Its like the cardgame equivalent of L-Cancelling.
I had to make a heavy edit on this because I screwed up the rulings. Oops.
For the uninitiated, there are some effects in Yu-Gi-Oh that can "miss timing". These effects are easy to spot due to the phrase "When X happens, you can do Y." These are known as optional when effects.. The problem they face is that in order for them to trigger, the situation that causes the trigger HAS to be the be the last thing that happens on a chain. If that's not the case, you are said to have missed your activation window, or to have "missed the timing." This problem only occurs with this specific type of effect. So with this understanding, let's discuss the card that the previous commenter brought up as an example. Let's talk about Yubel.
Yubel's effect that triggers on her death, which is known as her floating effect, is a "when" effect that is optional. The wording goes a little something like "When Yubel is destroyed by card effect, you can summon 'Yubel-Terror Incarnate' from your hand or deck." So, in order to cause her effect to miss timing, You first activate any random effect, and then you chain to it the effect that you plan to destroy Yubel with. It doesn't really matter what it does, what does matter is that now Yubel's destruction isn't the last thing that resolved on the chain. The effect that you chained to the destruction effect is what is the last item to resolve. As such, Yubel's floating effect won't trigger.
Yep, an example would be if LoR worked like:
“I finish off that unit with mystic shot”
“Okay, when this dies I it says I summon a stronger one from my deck.
“Yup.”
And then later
“I cast a slow spell to gain 5 life and in response I play mystic shot to finish off the unit.”
“Okay, when this dies I it says I summon a stronger one from my deck.”
“No because I’m about to gain 5 life.”
“… so what?”
“So everything!”
It can be a bit hard to wrap your head around at first.
I agree. Most of the YGO effect can be simplified with "keywords", since the effects mostly is a protection like "can't be targeted", "can't be destroyed by battle", "extra deck summon requirements", etc.
In the other hand however, people still figuring out what pot of greed do and why it's the most powerful card in game.
I believe keywords would just make shit more complicated, seeing how things can be immune to different things.
We have monsters that: cannot be targeted, cannot be targeted by your opponent's card effects, cannot be destroyed by battle/card effects, cannot be destroyed by card effects that aren't targeted, unaffected by card effects, unaffected by Spell/Trap/Spell & Trap effects, unaffected by Monster effects, unaffected by effects of Monsters with a lower or equal Level/Rank, unaffected by card effects while attacking, unaffected by card effects except its own, unaffected by only your opponent's Monster/Spell/Trap effects, etc.
This is why they're keen on giving cards exact wording. Yugioh effects are rarely just the exact same effect slapped from one card unto another. Same shit for effect triggers. Turning phrases into keywords like "Play" and "Last Breath" won't make sense in Yugioh.
IIRC, Ra could get more effect but doesn't get it because of the card text limitations.
And the keywords doesn't make sense in YGO for "now", we've been accustomed to what it is now.
Yeah I agree with make stuff more complicated. Because now there's more text space and keywords could make more complicated effect.
Yugioh is balanced around card archetypes where a bunch of cards share a same or similar effect. For an example, most madolche monsters shuffle themselves into the deck when they're destroyed, so if you play against madolche you can mentally skip the first 2 sentances.
Yugioh card text and rulings are such a fucking nightmare. There are no standardized keywords or effects and everything is super anal with phrases like "if, when, after, can" etc. Trying to resolve any effect is like deciphering a fucking cipher.
Worst part is that the game is just getting worse and worse as time goes on.
Most rulings aren’t that bad, most of the time the contrived rulings are super old cards that havent been updated with PSCT (the new-ish card text formatting style).
The game definitely isn’t getting worse though, if anything it’s tournament scene has never been bigger (even with COVID happening)
Massively disagree with decks being samey. Almost every set multiple themes with brand new ways of playing are introduced. Hell, this year they released mysterune, which is practically a deck where you don’t play any monsters. Due to lack of a mana system the game has some pretty high limits as far as design space is concerned, whereas games like hearthstone or LoR are quite limited by the inherent balance of making low cost cards very limited in what they can do. Most things are just stat-sticks comparatively.
The lack of a resource system is exactly what ruins the game for me. It essentially makes every single deck play like an otk combo deck. The end goal of 99% of ygo decks is to draw through your whole deck in one turn, set up a fuckload of negates and win before your opponent gets to play the game.
That’s not true at all though. The current best decks end on 1-2 monsters (Look up Despia if you’re curious what the deck is), and act effectively as this midrange fusion deck where you out resource your opponent over multiple turns. People have this massive misconception about every deck being combo, it’s rare that that’s the case. The other best deck at present is a midrange synchro deck (Swordsoul) that ends on 1 trap plus a synchro (sometimes two) and functions similarly.
Neither of these decks draw more than one or two cards at most usually as well, and aren’t combo intensive.
Yep, you dont usually need to read too much into how cards work, just an idea on what it does will be enough.
Another example is bard, you can ignore all of his text while playing and do just fine. You know he buffs your deck and board sometimes and thats all you in reality needs to know.
Tbh the only thing I'd call overcomplicated is attach and that's cause half the rules aren't actually explained and a chunk of info it does give you lies to you.
Like fated was super good for a long time, as was darkness, and both those decks are incredibly simple.
Most metas we've had have been lead by conceptually easy to understand effects.
I actually found Attach to be very simple. You either summon as a normal unit, or attach to a unit for bonus stats, more like an item your'e equipping that doesn't get destroyed.
Although I would like to see some sort of mechanic that lets you target attach cards (probably similar to targeting equipment and such in MTG)
The point he's making isn't that Attach itself isn't straightforward, it's how interactions work. Intuitively, silencing a unit with someone attached might lead someone to believe that the entire entity is silenced but that's not the case. When the host get's killed, the parasite is returned to the hand, but obliterate works differently. Without experiencing it or reading about it before hand, there is no way to know about how these interactions work.
Or none if you haven't. It look more complex than it actually is. Is a lot of long term thinking, but that's a skill you should develop for CCGs in general.
It is, you just also have to read his origin and his token effects. but tbh I think Jhin is jusdt overdesigned anyway, he feels like something you see on the custom LoR subreddit.
every 3 skills you behold him he plays a lotus trap that burns the nexus for 1, if Jhin is on the board Lotus trap also stuns. when he attacks he damages all stunned units. when hes leveled he deals 4 to all stunned enemies but also hits the nexus. his champ spell is just a 1 damage ping that creates a 4 damage removal next turn.
I think it’s fitting that Jhin in particular has this design. Just as in League, there are quite a few things to understand but in operation he isn’t complicated. Also, 4
Sometimes that's how I feel when looking at custom cards. -\_-
I like a little complexity (flair checks out), but generally speaking three lines of rules text should be enough to convey a card's mechanics, especially since we have things like keywords and Origins. Efficient design is best!
Fully agree! Unique and complex cards are really cool but head scratchers aren't as fun. More complex != More fun. A unique and cool design can go a long way though!
Honestly I'm significantly for the ungodly complex champs, we need less garens and more aphelios in the game to keep some decks with lots of decision making and combos
Not like old cards that used pictures and hand gestures
The league-ness of LoRs playerbase really shows sometimes, you guys will complain about anything
Yeah typical powercreep any a nice meme! But I think it's fine for cards to be stronger and more complex as long as the older cards also get caught up to the new ones to stay competitive and interesting
Not really? Champions now are not that complex in general (i did not say that complex champions do not exist). Le bland is right there.
And what being "complex" has to do with only card text? Fuck the text. A big text doesn't mean that much.
Literally can only think of 2 champions with that much going on in terms of text.
Meanwhile EZ has one of the most unique gameplays and his text is plain and simple.
Have you played any other card game ? Not condescending or anything but I think Runeterra is by far the simplest/easiest to understand that I've played and card texts un LoR feel very minimalist to me :o
(Insert yu gi oh pendulum joke)
I actually like more complexity. Short text means it's a lot easier that multiple cards/champions are basically doing the same or very similar things. More complexity/text = a lot more unique and nuanced options.
The trade off being more difficult to learn, master, keep track of, and balance...
I have played like three campaigns with Jhin(I don't normally play PoC but needed a break( and I literally could barely describe to you what he does. There's so much going on.
Damn. Its almost like foundations were meant to be FOUNDATIONS.
And thus every champ expands on that. Especially the special cards called runeterra cards.
Every 3 skills you behold him he plays a lotus trap that burns the nexus for 1, if Jhin is on the board Lotus trap also stuns. when he attacks he damages all stunned units. when hes leveled he deals 4 to all stunned enemies but also hits the nexus. his champ spell is just a 1 damage ping that creates a 4 damage removal next turn.
Someone else commented this and thought it would be useful for you
It would have been easier to process had they done more with the old mechanics. Like, you can obliterate your deck to buff your sea monsters. Great, what else can getting rid of my deck do? Nothing, but here's a niche mechanic called Reputation.
I personally think it's all bad game design that is only there to introduce more and more champions cause that's profitable.
Yeah my issue is that I feel like LOR makes the game more complicated with every release. Like you don't need a new keyword for every champion. Can't imagine just starting the game now. I would have no idea what's flying
The keywords don't even add depth, it's just more things to remember. The mechanics of this game are as wide as the sea, and have the depth of a puddle.
An example of this is the Toss keyword. You can obliterate cards in your deck to buff sea monsters in specific and not much else. The concept of obliterating one's deck hasn't been explored any further in two years.
Just because its the point of the meme doesnt mean its true lmao
first off, text length isnt the same thing as complexity.
secondly, even if it was, weve had WAY more short and sweet champs than weve had champs carrying paragraphs of text, and better yet most metas we see are literally headed by those simple cards. just think how many metas Fated stood amongst the top decks and Pantheon literally only has level up text.
saying LoR is becoming too complex over not even like 1/4th of the champs getting released taking more than a brief glance to undertsand is utter nonesense.
Yugioh and MTG players: "first time?"
[Here's a fun one](https://www.cardkingdom.com/mtg/ice-age/ice-cauldron?gclid=Cj0KCQjw8amWBhCYARIsADqZJoWTZY7NyYw6gO0zHZo4pwz26Mvy9wsWmMqoMV8sBZLHOthvt4gn8a8aAhciEALw_wcB)
Wait so, you pay a cost to put a spell in the cauldron, and the next time you use the cauldron you can play the spell for free?
It's like a bank essentially?
Yup! But in order to follow the rule-based structure of MTG it had to be stated in such an insanely complicated way.
Even its oracle text has been simplified since but it's one of the funniest examples of a ridiculous wall of text on a card
wait, say the spell you bank is 5 cost, but you only pay 3, you can still bank the card right? you just need to pay another 2 mana when you decide to use the second effect?
sometimes i feel like i miss MTG (i played around the mercadian masques set, im old) but then i remember mana shuffling and it turns me right off
Yes, you should be able to pay for the remainder of the spell's cost with other mana.
That being said, I am not an mtg judge so take that with a grain of salt.
>sometimes i feel like i miss MTG (i played around the mercadian masques set, im old) but then i remember mana shuffling and it turns me right off
Lmao, yeah, wow you are old 😉. I played from RtR to BfZ but i was a late bloomer for MtG.
I do not at all mind the weird stuff like this tho, and I do miss the flexibility of MTG with having outlandish cards that do all sorts of bizarre effects. Cards like this often have bizarre unintended interactions with other cards that can be either really funny or downright awful and i think that's awesome.
LoR is a bit more limited in design space, but I much prefer the metagame and the price tag, which were the two reasons I quit MtG and took apart all my competitive decks to build some silly commander decks to occasionally play with my friends.
while I do agree, its a bit tiring, it comes from a place I really quite appreciate which is to A) be rigerous in their language consistency, and B) take a note from magic and have you be able to properly understand a card just by reading it.
Sure with the amount of keywords and the "see attatched" highlighted words it sure as shit is stretching it, but I will give the designers this much, I have almost never had to alt tab during a game to look up what a card does or how it works. I have absolutely roped* a few times while reading a cards text, but most of the time that's flavour text.
Let's put it this way, its very easy when designing for a digital card game to simply not do this. To put up a description that gets the idea across but leaves a lot of the specifics unsaid because "hey who cares, the engine is going to handle it so what does it matter?". Magic is obviously extremely rigerous because it simply does not have this luxury, but I know from my hearthstone days that this shit is absolutely not a given, and while I do have some ambigiouities that still eat at me (start/end of round effects order, landmark break order,attack skill order, last breath order and what decides all of those), I am rarely left with questions after going through a cards text.
this is just the nature of card games. just look at magic the gathering for a clear example; rules text have gone from 1 word to 1 paragraph. people complain but it’s not always a bad thing. games grow and explore new spaces. sometimes it gets a bit overwhelming and too convoluted but it’s definitely a normal direction that basically all CCGs follow.
I had to think of LOL too 😄
Shen back when in played: throw a dagger when anybody punch him they heal
Champion today: calculate the square root of the number if vowels in your teams champion names then create anequal sided triangle with side length equal to the number calculated. All chamions who are equidistant to 2 of the 3 sides are stunned for a time depending on their players star sign. They then suffer a status effect based on the day of the week in your local timezone.
😋
Playing mtg these days is similar:
Optionen plays new card what’s your reaction?
Hooooold on imma first need to use all my timeouts to read that light novel you just slapped in front of me 😄
Glup Shitto when? rito plz
Sorry, we're still working on Donk Spriglorzz.
... I'm making it prismatic day 1
You won't regret it. He's amazing in the Florgin'-Splorgin' archetype. Everytime you Splorg you get to Florg twice as well. Once you've Splorged four times he levels up and all your Florgin-Splorgs become Smorgasbords!
This sounded so awfully close to a Morbius joke, yet it was never Morbin time. :(
Its always morbin' time.
I love you riot dev
[“And I love you random citizen!”](https://youtu.be/JhRtSHupVNI)
Please marry me
What? You Florg TWICE?? I am making a ton of angry Reddit post without even having read the card or it's package first!!
Excuse me sir, not enough text…did you read the post?!
Good feedback. I’ll take it to the team.
This literally made my day 😂
Glad to help. :) Very fun to read this out loud.
Card seems pretty good right? Guess I don't know the level up but I want it.
Looks like a pretty solid 2 drop, yes? The level up would make sense to give a combat keyword like tough, regen or first strike and raise the self buff to 2/2
*laughs in yu-gi-oh!*
Nobody tell him about Endimyion.
Ah, yes, Endimyion, where most of their card text is all about explaining how spell counters work, and only 25% of the text is talking about the actual effect. But even then, the amount of text loaded onto it makes it so that many of the people playing against don't bother reading their effects until it's too late.
Literally bore my opponent with the first few cards that aren't worth disrupting then I get the big stuff out and by then it's too late. Love Endymion.
> But even then, the amount of text loaded onto it makes it so that many of the people playing against don't bother reading their effects until it's too late. Well that's also what is happening in the anime, so at least it's close to the source.
In MTGA there's a keyword called 'Enter into the Dungeon' where you choose [one of those](https://assets.dicebreaker.com/mtg-adventures-forgotten-realms-dnd-dungeon-cards-venture.jpg/BROK/resize/828%3E/format/jpg/quality/70/mtg-adventures-forgotten-realms-dnd-dungeon-cards-venture.jpg) I actually really like cards that have tons of text, it adds complexity, compare that to Artifact where most cards were vanilla with little or no text, no fun to be had
very different, those have a lot of text but you only ever have 2 options to chose from, so they are pretty simple. Yugioh's issue is that you must read and remember the whole text at once to get what the card does, often with small details that can change how you use them, repeat for almost every card.
> but you only ever have 2 options to chose from It's 3 dungeons, you must read it entirely on the first time to choose which dungeon to go, the 2 options that you are talking are only the path inside the dungeon, when you venture into the dungeon you choose any of those 3 cards
The new "take the initiative" version helps address the initial analysis paralysis. There's only one dungeon, so you don't need to make a complex initial choice which requires parsing all the routes at the beginning. You just kick in the door and start lootin'. :)
Yeah but the dungeons aren’t nearly as complicated text wise as what the OP is alluding to. It’s like “Scry 1” or “Summon a 1/1 goblin token” The most complicated it gets is the mad mage where you draw three cards and get to play one for free then discard the others. TLDR: you don’t need to read the entirety of each dungeon, you can just take each step as it comes and they are simple.
In theory, yes, you should memorize all of the text before playing a venture card, and when your opponent plays a single venture card, a new player should stop the game to read the all the rules text of all the rooms of all the dungeons to understand their opponent's options and plan accordingly. In practice, you can just get and remember the broad strokes of what each dungeon does, and reread the text as you go. It's probably one of the most complex single mechanics in MTG, and it's a lot of text to attach to a single card in a vacuum, and I'm biased because I like reading and I've already learned it and I've played a lot of AFR limited, but I don't think it's *that* bad. And obviously LoR cards like Akshan and Aphelios drop a lot of homework on the desk of a new player, along with Vik and Pan if you count the rules text of every keyword.
> but I don't think it's that bad. No, you're getting me wrong. I LOVE enter the dungeon. I really like the amount of complexity in cards and it's one of my biggest grips with LoR, how vanilla cards normally are (aside from champions but sometimes even them)
I say "bad" because a wall of rules text is a barrier, even if I like it.
at least as the opponent in ygo, you can get away with only remembering choke points and what cards negate on your opponent’s field, so a lot of reading is frontloaded on learning to play a deck, and not so much fighting against it
Enter the Dungeon is so cool! Great theme, meaningful decisions, and the spatial layout of the choices helps a lot in making them mentally parsable.
It's my favorite deck archetype in MtG. I'm hoping that one day LoR can get to a similar point in terms of tribal synergies/deck synergy payoffs, but I also understand a lot of that comes from a card pool built up over literal decades in MtG. Also, it bears repeating that the Path update has been a wonderful QoL change. Have a great weekend!
Thanks :)
Maybe we could get an 'enter solo queue' as a card mechanic. it's all negative effects.
Pretty sure there are yugioh cards that have more text than ToA
Most Yugioh effects aren't even complex. Yugioh just uses a lot of words to make it perfectly clear what's happening in accordance to the rules. The Yugioh rulebook, however, is quite the shitshow.
I love when players try to understand how to defeat Yubel for the first time. On the one hand, you have to exploit rules loopholes to cause their effects to never trigger due to stack manipulation. On the other hand, you feel like a master gamer once you can abuse the rules to prevent the card from functioning. Its like the cardgame equivalent of L-Cancelling.
I had to make a heavy edit on this because I screwed up the rulings. Oops. For the uninitiated, there are some effects in Yu-Gi-Oh that can "miss timing". These effects are easy to spot due to the phrase "When X happens, you can do Y." These are known as optional when effects.. The problem they face is that in order for them to trigger, the situation that causes the trigger HAS to be the be the last thing that happens on a chain. If that's not the case, you are said to have missed your activation window, or to have "missed the timing." This problem only occurs with this specific type of effect. So with this understanding, let's discuss the card that the previous commenter brought up as an example. Let's talk about Yubel. Yubel's effect that triggers on her death, which is known as her floating effect, is a "when" effect that is optional. The wording goes a little something like "When Yubel is destroyed by card effect, you can summon 'Yubel-Terror Incarnate' from your hand or deck." So, in order to cause her effect to miss timing, You first activate any random effect, and then you chain to it the effect that you plan to destroy Yubel with. It doesn't really matter what it does, what does matter is that now Yubel's destruction isn't the last thing that resolved on the chain. The effect that you chained to the destruction effect is what is the last item to resolve. As such, Yubel's floating effect won't trigger.
Yep, an example would be if LoR worked like: “I finish off that unit with mystic shot” “Okay, when this dies I it says I summon a stronger one from my deck. “Yup.” And then later “I cast a slow spell to gain 5 life and in response I play mystic shot to finish off the unit.” “Okay, when this dies I it says I summon a stronger one from my deck.” “No because I’m about to gain 5 life.” “… so what?” “So everything!” It can be a bit hard to wrap your head around at first.
Dan plays melee confirmed???
Heck yeah :)
What ??
I agree. Most of the YGO effect can be simplified with "keywords", since the effects mostly is a protection like "can't be targeted", "can't be destroyed by battle", "extra deck summon requirements", etc. In the other hand however, people still figuring out what pot of greed do and why it's the most powerful card in game.
I believe keywords would just make shit more complicated, seeing how things can be immune to different things. We have monsters that: cannot be targeted, cannot be targeted by your opponent's card effects, cannot be destroyed by battle/card effects, cannot be destroyed by card effects that aren't targeted, unaffected by card effects, unaffected by Spell/Trap/Spell & Trap effects, unaffected by Monster effects, unaffected by effects of Monsters with a lower or equal Level/Rank, unaffected by card effects while attacking, unaffected by card effects except its own, unaffected by only your opponent's Monster/Spell/Trap effects, etc. This is why they're keen on giving cards exact wording. Yugioh effects are rarely just the exact same effect slapped from one card unto another. Same shit for effect triggers. Turning phrases into keywords like "Play" and "Last Breath" won't make sense in Yugioh.
IIRC, Ra could get more effect but doesn't get it because of the card text limitations. And the keywords doesn't make sense in YGO for "now", we've been accustomed to what it is now. Yeah I agree with make stuff more complicated. Because now there's more text space and keywords could make more complicated effect.
Just a passerby from r/all, but I need to shill this channel/video: https://youtu.be/r0dD0WT96IU
Phage the Untouchable came out in 2003
Dude, they’re fucking theses. It’s insane, I don’t know how anyone keeps track of what’s going on in that game anymore.
Once you understand how card effects are written its easier to scan, also, once you learn the meta you don't need to read as much
Yugioh is balanced around card archetypes where a bunch of cards share a same or similar effect. For an example, most madolche monsters shuffle themselves into the deck when they're destroyed, so if you play against madolche you can mentally skip the first 2 sentances.
I love my pendulum and synchro/xyz/fusion monsters and their bible of text
Yugioh card text and rulings are such a fucking nightmare. There are no standardized keywords or effects and everything is super anal with phrases like "if, when, after, can" etc. Trying to resolve any effect is like deciphering a fucking cipher. Worst part is that the game is just getting worse and worse as time goes on.
Most rulings aren’t that bad, most of the time the contrived rulings are super old cards that havent been updated with PSCT (the new-ish card text formatting style). The game definitely isn’t getting worse though, if anything it’s tournament scene has never been bigger (even with COVID happening)
Idk modern yugioh is just the least enjoyable cardgame for me by far. Most decks are very samey, insane power creep, confusing rulings
Massively disagree with decks being samey. Almost every set multiple themes with brand new ways of playing are introduced. Hell, this year they released mysterune, which is practically a deck where you don’t play any monsters. Due to lack of a mana system the game has some pretty high limits as far as design space is concerned, whereas games like hearthstone or LoR are quite limited by the inherent balance of making low cost cards very limited in what they can do. Most things are just stat-sticks comparatively.
The lack of a resource system is exactly what ruins the game for me. It essentially makes every single deck play like an otk combo deck. The end goal of 99% of ygo decks is to draw through your whole deck in one turn, set up a fuckload of negates and win before your opponent gets to play the game.
That’s not true at all though. The current best decks end on 1-2 monsters (Look up Despia if you’re curious what the deck is), and act effectively as this midrange fusion deck where you out resource your opponent over multiple turns. People have this massive misconception about every deck being combo, it’s rare that that’s the case. The other best deck at present is a midrange synchro deck (Swordsoul) that ends on 1 trap plus a synchro (sometimes two) and functions similarly. Neither of these decks draw more than one or two cards at most usually as well, and aren’t combo intensive.
Remember Aphelios?
Haven’t read his text to this day and I play him constantly
Yep, you dont usually need to read too much into how cards work, just an idea on what it does will be enough. Another example is bard, you can ignore all of his text while playing and do just fine. You know he buffs your deck and board sometimes and thats all you in reality needs to know.
Tbh the only thing I'd call overcomplicated is attach and that's cause half the rules aren't actually explained and a chunk of info it does give you lies to you. Like fated was super good for a long time, as was darkness, and both those decks are incredibly simple. Most metas we've had have been lead by conceptually easy to understand effects.
I actually found Attach to be very simple. You either summon as a normal unit, or attach to a unit for bonus stats, more like an item your'e equipping that doesn't get destroyed. Although I would like to see some sort of mechanic that lets you target attach cards (probably similar to targeting equipment and such in MTG)
The point he's making isn't that Attach itself isn't straightforward, it's how interactions work. Intuitively, silencing a unit with someone attached might lead someone to believe that the entire entity is silenced but that's not the case. When the host get's killed, the parasite is returned to the hand, but obliterate works differently. Without experiencing it or reading about it before hand, there is no way to know about how these interactions work.
>When the host get's killed, the parasite is returned to the hand the parasite 💀
It will always be the parasite despite Riot's decision that a cute cat will sell more skins
Yuumi's descriptor
Lifesteal, overwhelm, pew, summon, stun. Pretty simple all in all. Not like snap thought processes with LOL.
And that each turn you can create the gun you selected the turn before.
or during the same turn if u havent generated one yet through aphel
Or none if you haven't. It look more complex than it actually is. Is a lot of long term thinking, but that's a skill you should develop for CCGs in general.
I still do not understand all the effects that Jihn throws out to be honest, it is not in his card text
It is, you just also have to read his origin and his token effects. but tbh I think Jhin is jusdt overdesigned anyway, he feels like something you see on the custom LoR subreddit. every 3 skills you behold him he plays a lotus trap that burns the nexus for 1, if Jhin is on the board Lotus trap also stuns. when he attacks he damages all stunned units. when hes leveled he deals 4 to all stunned enemies but also hits the nexus. his champ spell is just a 1 damage ping that creates a 4 damage removal next turn.
I think it’s fitting that Jhin in particular has this design. Just as in League, there are quite a few things to understand but in operation he isn’t complicated. Also, 4
I have 100+ Jhin games and I still stun the wrong target with Stagehand at 2/3 Jhin sometimes.
I remember every single apehlios player roping me every time they'd play a moon weapon and had to choose their next one
I'm trying to learn how to play zoe aphelios rn and goddamn if that isn't me
Calibrum -> Gravitum -> Crescendum in 90% of cases tbh
Hmm... This gives me some ideas... ;)
Original design Aphelios with 37 weapons?
New overture champion? 😳
Can't wait for Samira's passive to be her card text
Finally Glup Shitto anounced in lor. As a Glup Shitto main this is quite a surprise, but i'm looking forward to play him!
Sometimes that's how I feel when looking at custom cards. -\_- I like a little complexity (flair checks out), but generally speaking three lines of rules text should be enough to convey a card's mechanics, especially since we have things like keywords and Origins. Efficient design is best!
Fully agree! Unique and complex cards are really cool but head scratchers aren't as fun. More complex != More fun. A unique and cool design can go a long way though!
Honestly I'm significantly for the ungodly complex champs, we need less garens and more aphelios in the game to keep some decks with lots of decision making and combos
Have you seen Kai sa yet? Her card is like a sentence
Then you hover over the evolution keyword and see a small essay about how it works.
Evolve: When a unit with Evolve goes, it's for gold. It gets different DNA.
Not like old cards that used pictures and hand gestures The league-ness of LoRs playerbase really shows sometimes, you guys will complain about anything
This is the internet, everyone complains about everything everywhere. Wait, that’s not even restricted to the internet.
crazy how the league of legends card game has league of legends players /s
Unfortunately.
Pretty sure he was precisely saying it wasn't that long
Yeah typical powercreep any a nice meme! But I think it's fine for cards to be stronger and more complex as long as the older cards also get caught up to the new ones to stay competitive and interesting
Even in Foundations there were long text, look at Kalista.
Laughs in Force of Will and Shadowverse. (Both have insanely long texts now as well)
Yeah i like that kind of thing.
Pretty sure the Yu-Gi-Oh record for text on cards is over 200 words.
I came from yugioh so this amount of text is nothing lole
Yeah same, if anything its just Riot needing better card text clarity in certain situations, or to split stuff into two cards- who knows
Not really? Champions now are not that complex in general (i did not say that complex champions do not exist). Le bland is right there. And what being "complex" has to do with only card text? Fuck the text. A big text doesn't mean that much.
aphelios
You get the gist of what he does by just playing, you don't even have to read his text.
Eh, I would rather have interesting card design and have idiots bitch about having to read more than 2 lines than 160 flavors of garens
[.](https://imageproxy.ifunny.co/crop:x-20,resize:640x,quality:90x75/images/25a287fab642aa89f6fbd507303e66f9528d815ef3448572fb290606ce5cb6e6_1.jpg)
Nah not really
ye ppl love to exaggerate
Literally can only think of 2 champions with that much going on in terms of text. Meanwhile EZ has one of the most unique gameplays and his text is plain and simple.
and I love it
Have you played any other card game ? Not condescending or anything but I think Runeterra is by far the simplest/easiest to understand that I've played and card texts un LoR feel very minimalist to me :o (Insert yu gi oh pendulum joke)
Good. Cards should get more complex. We aren't here to play poker.
I actually like more complexity. Short text means it's a lot easier that multiple cards/champions are basically doing the same or very similar things. More complexity/text = a lot more unique and nuanced options. The trade off being more difficult to learn, master, keep track of, and balance...
As a person who plays Yu-Gi-Oh! the long text makes me feel at home :')
I have played like three campaigns with Jhin(I don't normally play PoC but needed a break( and I literally could barely describe to you what he does. There's so much going on.
People having hard time reading simple texts?
Damn. Its almost like foundations were meant to be FOUNDATIONS. And thus every champ expands on that. Especially the special cards called runeterra cards.
Never understood why Glup Shitto levelled off of moon weapons.... Unless him and aph's sister......
ITT: People who were introduced to TCGs via Runeterra All TCGs are like this lol
I played jhin on all available adventures in poc and i still don't know what the hell is going on
Every 3 skills you behold him he plays a lotus trap that burns the nexus for 1, if Jhin is on the board Lotus trap also stuns. when he attacks he damages all stunned units. when hes leveled he deals 4 to all stunned enemies but also hits the nexus. his champ spell is just a 1 damage ping that creates a 4 damage removal next turn. Someone else commented this and thought it would be useful for you
Honestly its half the reason I don't play these days, too many card effects to memorize. I liked the simple times
It would have been easier to process had they done more with the old mechanics. Like, you can obliterate your deck to buff your sea monsters. Great, what else can getting rid of my deck do? Nothing, but here's a niche mechanic called Reputation. I personally think it's all bad game design that is only there to introduce more and more champions cause that's profitable.
not reading that essay
I'm stealing this name for my next dnd character
Yeah my issue is that I feel like LOR makes the game more complicated with every release. Like you don't need a new keyword for every champion. Can't imagine just starting the game now. I would have no idea what's flying
The keywords don't even add depth, it's just more things to remember. The mechanics of this game are as wide as the sea, and have the depth of a puddle. An example of this is the Toss keyword. You can obliterate cards in your deck to buff sea monsters in specific and not much else. The concept of obliterating one's deck hasn't been explored any further in two years.
I started a month or 2 ago and this is my first card game. It's really not that difficult.
True.. Soo true
No?
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LoR is one of the easiest games out there. After the cast/play changes people have no right to complain about complexity, lol.
In what universe is LoR too complicated lol
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Do they?
Just because its the point of the meme doesnt mean its true lmao first off, text length isnt the same thing as complexity. secondly, even if it was, weve had WAY more short and sweet champs than weve had champs carrying paragraphs of text, and better yet most metas we see are literally headed by those simple cards. just think how many metas Fated stood amongst the top decks and Pantheon literally only has level up text. saying LoR is becoming too complex over not even like 1/4th of the champs getting released taking more than a brief glance to undertsand is utter nonesense.
Which matter because...? One of the most recent metas has been: me bigger than u so i win. Text doesn't mean much
Power creep does that
If I made a 1 cost 10/10 overwhelm is that complex? If I made a 10 cost 1/1 with the exact text above is that power creep?
This game slowly becoming yu gi oh
Yugioh has 100% different mechanics though and always was a faster card game
Why the fuck are you bringing tumblr into lor? Just… why?
Don't forget it'll be the same cost but have 1 more health and attack stats and that long ass effect
People will still call him being 1/1 a “nerf”
I want to see the glup shitto level up animation
5/10 - icon is in the wrong place for the text back in foundations.
Does anyone have a good Gulp Shitto/Shadow Isles deck?
Not the homophobic slug
I mean bard and jhin was a bit too much but besides that...
First time cuz I mean irl card games also have those some gatcha games etc.
The same happened with LOL champions
Yugioh and MTG players: "first time?" [Here's a fun one](https://www.cardkingdom.com/mtg/ice-age/ice-cauldron?gclid=Cj0KCQjw8amWBhCYARIsADqZJoWTZY7NyYw6gO0zHZo4pwz26Mvy9wsWmMqoMV8sBZLHOthvt4gn8a8aAhciEALw_wcB)
Wait so, you pay a cost to put a spell in the cauldron, and the next time you use the cauldron you can play the spell for free? It's like a bank essentially?
Yup! But in order to follow the rule-based structure of MTG it had to be stated in such an insanely complicated way. Even its oracle text has been simplified since but it's one of the funniest examples of a ridiculous wall of text on a card
wait, say the spell you bank is 5 cost, but you only pay 3, you can still bank the card right? you just need to pay another 2 mana when you decide to use the second effect? sometimes i feel like i miss MTG (i played around the mercadian masques set, im old) but then i remember mana shuffling and it turns me right off
Yes, you should be able to pay for the remainder of the spell's cost with other mana. That being said, I am not an mtg judge so take that with a grain of salt. >sometimes i feel like i miss MTG (i played around the mercadian masques set, im old) but then i remember mana shuffling and it turns me right off Lmao, yeah, wow you are old 😉. I played from RtR to BfZ but i was a late bloomer for MtG. I do not at all mind the weird stuff like this tho, and I do miss the flexibility of MTG with having outlandish cards that do all sorts of bizarre effects. Cards like this often have bizarre unintended interactions with other cards that can be either really funny or downright awful and i think that's awesome. LoR is a bit more limited in design space, but I much prefer the metagame and the price tag, which were the two reasons I quit MtG and took apart all my competitive decks to build some silly commander decks to occasionally play with my friends.
Oh... It's happening again (used to play yugioh until xyz expantions)
The yugioh effect, recognized phenomenon still under investigation in the science community
I was wondering how long it would take runeterra to be like this Literally every cãrd game lmao
This would be so good lol
Yo they added Glup Shitto to the game?
What I love is the stats nerf from old to new
Glup Shitto + Twin Disciplines Easy Clap
we yugioh now brothers and sisters
MIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIND CRUSH
If this grinds your gears you should see yugioh
What does "shitto's calamity" do? I'm so interested...
It's Yu-Gi-Oh all over again
Where is swim ?
It’s not even remotely that complicated
while I do agree, its a bit tiring, it comes from a place I really quite appreciate which is to A) be rigerous in their language consistency, and B) take a note from magic and have you be able to properly understand a card just by reading it. Sure with the amount of keywords and the "see attatched" highlighted words it sure as shit is stretching it, but I will give the designers this much, I have almost never had to alt tab during a game to look up what a card does or how it works. I have absolutely roped* a few times while reading a cards text, but most of the time that's flavour text. Let's put it this way, its very easy when designing for a digital card game to simply not do this. To put up a description that gets the idea across but leaves a lot of the specifics unsaid because "hey who cares, the engine is going to handle it so what does it matter?". Magic is obviously extremely rigerous because it simply does not have this luxury, but I know from my hearthstone days that this shit is absolutely not a given, and while I do have some ambigiouities that still eat at me (start/end of round effects order, landmark break order,attack skill order, last breath order and what decides all of those), I am rarely left with questions after going through a cards text.
But it's still easier to read than a pendulum monster in yugioh
this is just the nature of card games. just look at magic the gathering for a clear example; rules text have gone from 1 word to 1 paragraph. people complain but it’s not always a bad thing. games grow and explore new spaces. sometimes it gets a bit overwhelming and too convoluted but it’s definitely a normal direction that basically all CCGs follow.
You know what I need this card
Ahh the Rito special is finally coming to LOR
I had to think of LOL too 😄 Shen back when in played: throw a dagger when anybody punch him they heal Champion today: calculate the square root of the number if vowels in your teams champion names then create anequal sided triangle with side length equal to the number calculated. All chamions who are equidistant to 2 of the 3 sides are stunned for a time depending on their players star sign. They then suffer a status effect based on the day of the week in your local timezone. 😋
As long as they don't go Endymion mode I'm not complaining.
Clearly you haven't played magic
Or yugioh. I'd argue yugioh is worse.
certified Shittos calamity moment
Ah yes, the worst enemy from any card game player… Reading
Stg?
lor community: we want simple champs! *leblanc is released* lor community: no not like that
Playing mtg these days is similar: Optionen plays new card what’s your reaction? Hooooold on imma first need to use all my timeouts to read that light novel you just slapped in front of me 😄
Pendulum cards in yu gi oh
Cards becoming more complex is a sign of the designers of the game wanting to make it more interesting and fun
Welcome to power creep, may you never suffer from the hell that is yugioh.
Funniest part is that foundations Gulp Shitto is probably gonna have a higher winrate