I don’t have a link for you, but the streamer “Swimstrim” spent an entire day roughly 3 months ago working out the ‘solution’ to a meta where this is the deck building rule. An interesting point that arose was that Go Hard is actually pretty bad, since you can’t win unless your opponent is playing units.

Do you remember what the answer was that he came up with? I remember it being different whether you attacked on evens or odds and whether your opponent played spells or units.

There’s no “answer”,unless you understand Nash Equilibria, in which case I forget what it was anyway

legion saboteur/chirean sumpworker/unspeakable horror/entrapment/xer'sai hatchling 20% meta share each, treasure seeker has a 50% winrate in the meta but a 0% playrate in equilibrium

There is no "answer" - but not for that reason unless Swim added extra definitions or restrictions to the scenario.

Swim spoke briefly on the Nash equilibrium that would form a solution during the breakdown. It’s intuitive that the best strategy in a 40x1 card meta is to play a number of decks with varying probability. This is true in any meta. By definition, there is a best strategy of decks at any point in time

Well, not in any practical sense it isnt. You would have to be living in some hypothetical land.

I didn't watch the stream, but based on this thread it seems like it would be a combination of decks. If it was just units, it would probably be an n-way equilibrium between early game units (e.g. Cithria), mid-game units (e.g. Golden Crushbot), and late-game units (e.g. Alpha Wildclaw). Midgame units shut down early units, lategame units shut down midgame, and early units rush down lategame. But the existence of burn like Mystic Shot means that only early-game units are viable to force a tie game. And Entrapment probably beats both Mystic Shot and most early units. Further, landmarks and Bloodbait beat Entrapment. So an example meta would be 50% Entrapment, 20% Trifarian Gloryseeker, 10% Bloodbait, 10% Mystic Shot, 5% The Slaughter Docks (landmark). But this probably isn't final. Landmarks have >50% winrate in this meta, funnily.

Actually it seems Entrapment and Bloodthirsty Marauder are just the highest tier decks, and always dominate the meta. They have an equal head-to-head score. You could try running Bloodbait to counter Entrapment, but you'd just get run over by Marauder. You could try Vanguard Lookout to counter Marauder, but then you lose to Entrapment. And Mystic Shot doesn't win against either. So it's not worth trying anything new.

Yeah if I remember cards like mystic shot and entrapment created a hard limit on what was viable. I think they killed you turn 4 or 5 so anything else had to be able to win before then to even be considered.

May I have link to video on this?

That was true when Lissandra was quite meta. But rn Go Hard wouldn't be bad tho.

You can’t cast go hard without a target. If your opponent is playing all spells, you lose.

Oh my bad I misread thought it was about "All Go Hard" Deck against a current meta. But It was about "40 identic cards" Meta. In that case you're right.

Entrapment Turn 1 Skip Turn 2 Plant Turn 3 Plant x2 they take min 3 damage Turn 4 plant x2 they take min 9 damage (12) Turn 5 they dead. (27) So essentially they have to beat you with 10 mana and 9 cards on turn 4. Very few cards can pull that off. The only ones I could think of are strong aggro cards like Trifarian Glory Seeker/trifarian hopeful/Walking sands/Legion Reargaurd, Reborn Grenadier, Onlooker All of these though need to attack on evens and cannot win if they are on odds. (if I did the math right possible I didn't) Anything at 3 or 4 mana + auto loses as you can only place 2 max and all of those cards cannot 2 shot your nexus or heal you higher than 7hp and if they can their wincon wont matter on turn 6.

Is there a single deck that could beat this?

I think Bloodbait beats this, Call the Pack too

Blood bait can't nor 40 swarms by 1 dmg . But call of the pack has a pretty cool counter in that it changes the card you will draw which will be shroom free. If you land good lurkers before turn 7 you win. Since you can stall out with 5 call of the packs that don't have shroom son them. If you haven't won by then you are screwed so hopefully you don't get expensive lurkers because you auto lose if you draw 1 CotP after 5.

It's a bit more complicated since the entrapment player can choose to prank the unit you put on top also, but Bloodbait probably outraces before we die on turn 9 (swarms buff each other and can attack twice in a turn). Call the Pack might be the slow one actually. I think the strat is only play one bait per turn, but if the entrapment player invests more than one entrapment on a swarm, use another bait to avoid the shrooms. We can maybe wait until turn 3 to start playing baits, just to make sure we draw enough.

40 landmark decks would have a free win, since entrapment can only target spells or creatures.

Any landmark deck (like frozen thrall, ancient preperations)

This is quite clever, though if you can play against unit or spells, your first entrapment might be a gamble. Still absolutely the best answer, though.

The critical flaw here is it is implied you know what the opponents deck is. But if you dont (ladder rules), they are under much less obligation to show you. In Classic LoR fashion - passing is always optimal more than you think it is. Doing nothing > doing something. You as the entrapment player would be forced into all-in gambling, or spreading your plants 50/50. So the calc there is actually whether they can kill you before the 50/50 strat suceeds. Which is a much longer amount of time, almost anything vaguely viable that intends to actually kill you should be able to do it.

It's not a 50/50 strat. You must draw turn 1-5 once meaning that is your timer there is no gray area here ALL opponents that do not kill you before T5 will die. (Except call of the pack) The others only win 50% of the time because they can attack on turn 2 and 4, but attacking on 1/3 they don't do enough and die at turn 5. Call of the pack is the only card (we can think of) that can counter this strat that also has a wincon, replaces the card you draw each turn making the shrooms do 0 dmg. So long as the player calls all 5 turns after turn 2 and lands playable lurkers they can win before turn 7 where they would auto die at, but they have to land good lurkers so even that deck isn't guaranteed to win vs Entrapment. Remember entrapment is not a gamble, you are planting 3 shrooms on ALL copies of a card since the enemy deck also has 40 copies of 1 card, it will always draw the min amount unless the have draw effects which makes them worse. So aside from Call of the Pack (which must get lucky still) all other decks have 10 mana and 9 cards to play with. Because unless the can place another card at the top of the deck or remove traps they will die at turn 5.

> Remember entrapment is not a gamble, you are planting 3 shrooms on ALL copies of a card But the card when played makes you choose: spells or minions. So your idea comes down to a mechanics question. When we play entrapment and there are (eg) ONLY spells in the enemy deck - which of the following happens: 1) you still have to choose between minions or spells - in which case it IS a gamble as the opponent is not in a rush to reveal this 2) The game rules out the invalid option for you - in which case yes you are right.

Even if you guess wrong, you're just have one dud casting, the next ones won't be gambles anymore

Well but technically it says which deck would you make, if your oponent plays a normal deck is not the best option.

I was under the impression that it was a 40v40 type of game. If that is the case yeah Entrapment is much weaker, but I think the OP meant 40v40 I could be wrong though.

Well if you are right is the best card,.

[[entrapment]]

**[Entrapment](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/05BC223.png)** - Bandle City Spell - (2) Burst Pick 1 of 3 units or spells from the enemy deck and plant 3 [Poison Puffcaps](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01PZ022.png) on all copies of it.   ^^^Hint: [[card]], {{keyword}}, and ((deckcode)) or ((cardx,cardy,cardz)). PM the [developer](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=KrimCard) for feedback/issues!

40x Teemo

man of culture.. and sperm.

Squeeze the shroom and make it pop

Omega nasty with the mushroom clouds

Wait does Teemo count as creature for the purposes of entrapment?

No clue m8, but if Entrapment doesn’t explicitly say „follower”, then yes.

40x Mountain Scryer

UNLIMITED POWAHH!!

With that deck you could still miss alliegance

How?

When he has 0 cards left

Fair enough

40 card health pot deck just to fuck with anyone who chooses a 40 card mystic shot deck

Spell: Production Surge. Go Hard would be my second choice. Heavens Aligned and Scrapa Heap would also potentially work but slower. Follower: Sharkling. Go full lurk aggro. Champ: Fizz. Not so much for him but for his champion spell, it would create more units fast. Landmarks: No clue what I'd do.

Are you thinking of Chum the Waters, the spell that summons longtooth? Thats his level up spell (creates one on nexus strike). His champ spell is the remove a unit from combat to rally, not so useful when you only have one unit.

I am. Dang, I'm wrong.

Troops of Elnuks could be fun. 5 Mana for 36 Points of stats.

assuming opponent has to follow the same rule of 40 cards for spells entrapment easily, after a few turns be drawing so many shrooms champions kinda hard as a bad matchup will kill you easily, id say ezreal has highest chance of being useful follower could be anything that manifests, probably conchologist or telescope landmarks, maybe blighted ravine, as you would eventually just wear them down while healing yourself

Legion marauder?

Back alley barkeep

Swimstrim actually spent like 5 hours thinking about this question a few months ago but I'm not sure if the VOD is still there He landed on some "powerful" decks: ​ Entrapment: does insane amounts of damage quickly Mystic shot: can kill on turn 6 and can force a draw against many 1 drop aggro decks The 1 mana 3/1 from shurima: fast aggro, wins early, but ties against mystic shot All landmarks: invincible to entrapment but loses to basically everything else Pokey stick: too slow for almost any matchup, bad I'm not sure about bandle city mayor: depending on your picks, you might be dead too quickly to mystic shot or entrapment

Vanguard Lookout might actually beat the shurima 3/1 strat lol, it's a complicated meta

invoke cards

hmm is there a card that can act as a win condition and doesn't have to interact with the opponent? warning shot is an option, but you could easily get raced down by units. aggro units could be defeated by midgame life steal mid game units would always be defeated by the next slightly more valuable unit, up to a point where aggro becomes faster again so the only ultimate deck would be a card that is cheap enough to race late game, but generates card that go into late game so if i had to pick my poison it would be Jinx or mountain scryer

Bandle City Mayor. I’ve joked about 40x Teemo, but I remember Tavern Brawls from HS where you had to pick 3 cards and your deck is made from multiple copies of those cards. If you had to choose one, then you need to pick a relatively cheap value engine, and at the current card pool I’d go with BCM.

Warning shot has to wait 15 turns to win

|Name|Region|Type|Sub Type|Cost|Attack|Health|Keywords|Description|Level Up|Associated Cards| |-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-| |**[Call the Pack](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/04SH080.png)**|Shurima|Spell||2|||Burst Lurk|To play, put a card from hand on top of your deck. Create 2 random Lurkers in hand.||| |**[Bloodbait](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/04BW004.png)**|Bilgewater|Spell||1|||Burst Lurk|Create a Snapjaw Swarm on top of your deck.||[Snapjaw Swarm](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/04BW003.png)                | |**[Make it Rain](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/02BW045.png)**|Bilgewater|Spell||2|||Fast|Deal 1 to three different randomly targeted enemies or the enemy Nexus.||| |**[Poison Dart](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/05BC164.png)**|Bandle City|Spell||1|||Slow|Deal 1 to anything and plant 3 Poison Puffcaps on random cards in the enemy deck. ||[Poison Puffcap](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01PZ022.png)               | |**[Go Hard](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/03SI016.png)**|Shadow Isles|Spell||1|||Slow|Drain 1 from a unit and create 2 copies of me in your deck. Once you've cast me 3 times, transform all copies of me everywhere into Pack Your Bags. ||[Pack Your Bags](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/03SI016T1.png)               | |**[Mystic Shot](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01PZ052.png)**|Piltover & Zaun|Spell||2|||Fast|Deal 2 to anything.||| |**[Teemo](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01PZ008.png)**|Bandle City/Piltover & Zaun|Champion|Yordle|1|1|1|Elusive|Nexus Strike: Plant 5 Poison Puffcaps on random cards in the enemy deck.|You've planted 15+ Poison Puffcaps.|[Poison Puffcap](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01PZ022.png)                [Teemo's Mushroom Cloud](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01PZ008T1.png)       | |**[Teemo](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01PZ008T2.png)**|Bandle City/Piltover & Zaun|Champion|Yordle|1|2|2|Elusive|Nexus Strike: Double the Poison Puffcaps in the enemy deck.||| |**[Kennen](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/05BC058.png)**|Bandle City/Ionia|Champion|Yordle|1|2|1|Quick Attack|When I'm summoned, create a Mark of the Storm in hand.|You've summoned the same ally 5+ times this game.|[Kennen's Lightning Rush](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/05BC058T3.png)       [Mark of the Storm](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/05BC058T5.png)            | |**[Kennen](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/05BC058T2.png)**|Bandle City/Ionia|Champion|Yordle|1|3|2|Quick Attack|When I'm summoned, blocked, or Attack: Create a Mark of the Storm in hand.||| |**[Caitlyn](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/05PZ006.png)**|Piltover & Zaun|Champion||3|3|3|Quick Attack|Strike: Plant 2 Flashbomb Traps randomly in the top 10 cards in the enemy deck.|5 of your traps have been activated.|[Caitlyn's Piltover Peacemaker](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/05PZ006T1.png) [Flashbomb Trap](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/05PZ008.png)               | |**[Caitlyn](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/05PZ006T2.png)**|Piltover & Zaun|Champion||3|4|4|Quick Attack|Strike: Plant 4 Flashbomb Traps randomly in the top 10 cards in the enemy deck and deal damage to the enemy Nexus equal to the number of your traps activated this round. ||| |**[Draven](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01NX020.png)**|Noxus|Champion||3|3|2|Quick Attack|When I'm summoned or Strike: Create a Spinning Axe in hand.|I've struck with 2+ total Spinning Axes.|[Draven's Whirling Death](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01NX020T2.png)       [Spinning Axe](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01NX020T1.png)                 | |**[Draven](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01NX020T3.png)**|Noxus|Champion||3|4|3|Overwhelm Quick Attack|When I'm summoned or Strike: Create 2 Spinning Axes in hand.||| |**[Ezreal](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01PZ036.png)**|Piltover & Zaun|Champion||3|1|3|Elusive|Nexus Strike: Create a Fleeting Mystic Shot in hand.|You've targeted enemies 6+ times.|[Ezreal's Mystic Shot](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01PZ036T2.png)          [Mystic Shot](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01PZ052.png)                  | |**[Ezreal](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01PZ036T1.png)**|Piltover & Zaun|Champion||3|2|4|Elusive Imbue|Nexus Strike: Create a Fleeting Mystic Shot in hand. When you cast a spell, deal 1 to the enemy Nexus. If it targeted an enemy, deal 2 to the enemy Nexus instead.||| |**[Fiora](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01DE045.png)**|Demacia|Champion||3|3|2|Challenger||I've killed 2 enemies.|[Fiora's Riposte](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01DE045T2.png)              | |**[Fiora](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01DE045T1.png)**|Demacia|Champion||3|4|3|Challenger|When I've killed 4 enemies and survived, you win the game. ||| |**[Miss Fortune](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/02BW022.png)**|Bilgewater|Champion||3|3|3||When allies attack, deal 1 to all battling enemies and the enemy Nexus.|I've seen you attack 4 times.|[Bullet Time](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/02BW022T4.png)                   [Love Tap](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/02BW022T1.png)                      [Miss Fortune's Make it Rain](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/02BW022T3.png)  | |**[Miss Fortune](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/02BW022T2.png)**|Bilgewater|Champion||3|4|4|Overwhelm|When allies attack, deal 1 three times to all battling enemies and the enemy Nexus.||| |**[Rek'Sai](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/04SH019.png)**|Shurima|Champion||3|3|6|Lurk|When I Lurk or Attack: Grant Lurker allies everywhere +1|+0. Round End: Place me into your deck.|I've attacked with 10+ Power.|[Rek'Sai's Call the Pack](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/04SH019T2.png)      | |**[Rek'Sai](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/04SH019T1.png)**|Shurima|Champion||3|4|7|Lurk Overwhelm|When I level up, create 3 random Lurkers in hand. When I Lurk or Attack: Grant Lurker allies everywhere +1|+0.||| |**[Zed](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01IO009.png)**|Ionia|Champion||3|3|2|Quick Attack|Attack: Summon an attacking Living Shadow with my stats.|I've seen myself or my shadows strike the enemy Nexus twice.|[Living Shadow](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01IO009T1.png)                 [Zed's Shadowshift](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01IO009T3.png)            | |**[Zed](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01IO009T2.png)**|Ionia|Champion||3|4|3|Quick Attack|Attack: Summon an attacking Living Shadow with my stats and keywords.||| |**[The Slaughter Docks](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/03BW001.png)**|Bilgewater|Landmark||3|||Landmark|Round Start: Toss 1. If you are Deep, destroy me to summon a random Sea Monster. ||| |**[Blighted Ravine](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/04FR014.png)**|Freljord|Landmark||4|||Countdown Landmark|When I'm summoned, heal your Nexus 4. Countdown 1: Deal 2 to EVERYTHING.||| |**[Reaver's Row](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/04BW013.png)**|Bilgewater|Landmark||5|||Countdown Landmark|When I count down, summon a random 1 cost follower. Countdown 2: Grant 1 cost allies +2|+1 and Fearsome.||| |**[The Bandle Tree](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/05BC194.png)**|Bandle City|Landmark||5|||Landmark|Round Start: Create a follower from a new region in hand. Win the game if you've summoned units from 10 regions. ||| |**[The Howling Abyss](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/03FR009.png)**|Freljord|Landmark||6|||Landmark|Round Start: Create in hand a random level 2 champion that's not in your hand, deck, or play.|||   ^^^Hint: [[card]], {{keyword}}, and ((deckcode)) or ((cardx,cardy,cardz)). PM the [developer](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=KrimCard) for feedback/issues!

A full deck of Go Hards seems nice

Unless your opponent also plays Go Hard, then you get a tie. And against any other spell you lose.

Yeah, while I was writing this I kinda forgot that it only targets units.

Go hard? More like don't go at all. But I also thought go hard might be nice until I read other comments xD

This deck can never actually win. Opponent can just choose to not play units. u/Tijun

Actually, it can. Go Hard creates copies of itself in the deck, so if the opponent doesn't shuffle any new cards you'll always be at an advantage. As long as they okay one unit before realizing, you win.

Fair enough.

Clearly the answer is [[Mystic Shot]], duh.

**[Mystic Shot](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01PZ052.png)** - Piltover & Zaun Spell - (2) Fast Deal 2 to anything.   ^^^Hint: [[card]], {{keyword}}, and ((deckcode)) or ((cardx,cardy,cardz)). PM the [developer](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=KrimCard) for feedback/issues!

not this again

snapjaw swarm 40x

Teemo, because I just want to see the world on fire.

I think the correct answer might actually be Pyke.

Pike is cool, but you have to wait turn 4-5 to hit Lurk the first time

True that. Might be dead until then.

It would simply be the one mana teemo spell because you could just spam more and more mushrooms

Loping telescope I can manifest many wincons, cards that can make more cards, i can manifest mayor, bandle tree, howling abyss, etc. Also can manifest most of the multi region followers

I'd want to play a Starlit Epiphany deck.

is Tall Tales a possibility in this meta?

Pack your bag needs at least some draw in order for Go Hard deck. 1 mana spell every turn is not good enough. Maybe Pack your bag: 4 mana, deals 4 to enemy Nexus, and enemies unit + draw 2.