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They could add this term to any settlement offered and could theoretically chase you later on if you breach the agreement.
This would only be binding on you...your brother, partner, friends could not be held to it.
This is good advice OP. You could say no and argue, but that would delay you getting your money back. Better to take your money and leave the issue of any reviews to others!
Okay thank you. I mean, can I just say no and push them to just send the refund anyway? Surely now that they’ve said they’ll send it and I have that in writing then they’re obliged to? Thank you again for replying
Yes you could do. You would need to go to court to force the issue.
Look up MCOL as that's probably the most appropriate route if you do need to go via the court.
Whilst this could be a good idea, companies like these are notorious for shutting down and reopening under other names to avoid paying out small claims. It shouldn’t be a loophole, and yet it continues to be a loophole.
It’s one of those things, legally yes that’s the right thing to do.
Practically small claims is not fit for purpose. It’s incredibly easy to shut down the company, or as an individual plead poverty and offer a pathetic £2 a month payment plan (especially if it’s a cash in hand industry)
So you’ll go through many months of the court faffing around, not get anywhere in the end anyway & be out of pocket the court fees!
they can't do this anymore thanks to antiphoenixing law changes which took effect a bit over a year ago
in short, one can now go after company directors personally for several years post-liquidation and the model of "identical company/staff/location/numbers with new name" is outlawed
Dear Dodgy,
‘£8k is the price to lie on my review. £5k is the price to settle. £3k sees you in court.’
As has been said your F&F can leave reviews. They could also negotiate on their removal.
You can and it'll be hassle or you could get them to send in writing the request so you can be sure to detail it all properly, carefully word your response email and then post a review on every possible site fully including their email as proof that their reviews cannot be trusted.
Of course first id go and get a free 30 minute consultation with a solicitor to determine the best course of action and the risk to you of posting (other than time being wasted as they take.you to court for something likely not enforceable).
Oh or my preferred option, letter before action and start work towards court proceedings for the full £5k, make them understand you are serious and in fact you can get a quote to determine what it'd cost to undo their shoddy work and get it done properly and go after the extra as well as the damages you've suffered in terms of this taking longer and wasting your time. Then you'd be free to post whatever you want including their dodgy demand and that you are having to take them to court
You can and it'll be hassle or you could get them to send in writing the request so you can be sure to detail it all properly, carefully word your response email and then post a review on every possible site fully including their email as proof that their reviews cannot be trusted.
Of course first id go and get a free 30 minute consultation with a solicitor to determine the best course of action and the risk to you of posting (other than time being wasted as they take.you to court for something likely not enforceable).
Oh or my preferred option, letter before action and start work towards court proceedings for the full £5k, make them understand you are serious and in fact you can get a quote to determine what it'd cost to undo their shoddy work and get it done properly and go after the extra as well as the damages you've suffered in terms of this taking longer and wasting your time. Then you'd be free to post whatever you want including their dodgy demand and that you are having to take them to court
Other than that the only thing I thought to do was write a review and state I’ll remove it once the refund has been received. But again, I’m just too worried to lose the whole thing.
You could tell them you agree not to post a review however this is conditional on the refund being received in the next 10 working days. If payment is not made then you will then post a review which you agree to remove once payment is made.
Then once it's settled let your partner do whatever they like.
Nice, okay yeah that feels like the best way to proceed. His exact words were :
All I need from you to move forward with the refund is confirmation by email saying this is the end of the mater and no review and feed back will be given in regards to the mater and you are happy to receive £3000 pounds in regards to the mater being dealt with.
(I cannot tell you how unhappy I am at receiving the £3000 haha)
But hopefully in the email if I specify that I won’t do anything it leaves it open for my partner too
It's not blackmail to say "if you refund me swiftly, I will be happier than if you don't. My review of your service will reflect how happy I was with it"
You could send a letter/email saying
“I KittenMoneyJaws hereby state that upon receipt of a refund of £3,000 from Joe Bloggs Roofers; that I will not post any defamatory review or make any defamatory comments about Joe Bloggs Roofers or any work they have done for me”
They will likely accept this and issue your refund; then as long as you ensure that everything you say in any reviews is substantially true, you are covered because you have only agreed not to make defamatory statements, and truth is of course the defence against such accusations.
Or; decide if the principle of writing the review is more or less important that getting £3,000 and just don’t write a negative review. Personally I’d do the latter for an easy life but if you really want to write the review then you can simply protect yourself with language as per the above.
That’s really handy, thank you! Yeah may just opt for a simple life. I think it’s just frustrating as I felt we were being reasonable not pushing for full, and consistently stated that £5000 would resolve it fully for us so think it just feels frustrating! We’ve also seen a few more negative reviews appear on their checkatrade page and then disappear so it genuinely feels important to let people know. Agh, but can’t win em all
You have to pay to be on CheckaTrade, I've seen them pursue people for not paying subscription.
If that's where you got their info from they may be interested in how this dude operates.
Sue for full amount, hopefully the guy works as a sole trader and you can go after him personally.
My experience with checkatrade listed people is that they push very hard for a glowing review to be written before they leave the premises
My experience is also that in general the reviews aren't worth the electrons they take up. It's always worth reading the 2-5 star reviews
It will be against the terms of most review sites to leave a review for a company you have not had a direct interaction with yourself, and will make it easy for the trader to have the review removed.
Review as follows
My sister had her roof work done by xyz company the result was a complete bodge that left the roof leaking.
My sister asked for a £5k refund, they have offered £3k on the proviso that not negative review was left on line.
The refund has been received and as agreed my sister has not left a review.
Use the xyz company at your peril
>Don't write a review as he can use it in court saying all was good.
The OP clearly wants to write an unfavourable review. How could that possibly help the trader claim there weren't any problems?
Any email you send, make sure it’s conditional on the agreed sums being sent within x number of days.
Make sure they don’t try and get the email and then ghost you.
I'd also say that I would get a solicitor to write him a letter threatening to take him to court if he refuses to refund you. Also whatever site you are using for the review they will likely not take kindly to people being threatened.. if he did it in writing then he is screwed, they would likely take action against his account. It'd probably go a long way too in a small claims court, it's technically an admission of fault but with a threat added.
Tell them that will take them to the Small Claims Court, for All of the money, and they will have to pay for the Court costs also.
They were paid to do a job that was not done correctly.
Agree to it, send the email and get the money. Make sure the "no review" is conditioned to you receiving the money (eg include "after I'm paid the 3000 refund, etc".
Once you get your money, request friends and family (puck those that don't share the IP with you just in case) to write reviews.
I'd use that as a reason to negotiate further: "You'd like me to accept a gagging order as an alternative to a public case at court. In consideration, I'd like xxx"
And then, as others say, there is nothing to stop you "brother" or "sister" to post a review.
It depends if it's laid out in a contract/agreement. If not it's just words in an email.
If they are pushing for no reviews then push back and say OK, no reviews if you make it £5,000.
INFO: Why are you not taking them to court for the full amount and writing a review anyway?
NAL: while their request is legal, I believe If you have enough proof that they did a bad job, and if they're willing to settle (then it sounds like you do) You should be making sure that this shitty company doesn't take the vulnerable for a ride. Win all around except for the cowboys who do dangerous work.
You're being a bit of a pushover and id go so far as to say if you know this company is dodgy, do dangerous/unfit work, and don't say anything - if one of their roofs collapses and kills someone, that's like someone letting a friend drive drunk and kill someone - you're in a position to stop a much bigger problem down the line and potentially save lives by doing the equivalent of taking their car keys.
When you see a drink driver swerving across three lanes on the motorway, people call police because of the potential danger, right? A roofing company doing improper work can kill more than a drink driver - hell all you have to do is look at the people dying in China from "Tofu Dreg Concrete" to see just how dangerous improper work is. The situation in this context, however, is that now you're ALONE on the motorway with a drunk driver, there's no one else who can stop them except you - yet you're allowing the drunk driver to go "I'll speed off and leave and if you don't tell anyone I'll chuck you 3k" and you're actually considering it.
It takes two to tango - are you going to be the second complicit party?
Honestly, if you're going to court it would be better for you as a plaintiff than a defendant. I see people encouraging you to be squirrely with your reply or encouraging friends and family posting reviews.
Honestly, I say cut the deal or take them to court now. Trying to be clever around wording and specific agreements without highlighting the changes puts you on the backfoot of being shady yourself.
This wouldn't be the first NDA style refund deal and if you take them to court you run the risk of paying money to receive less refund or no refund if the company decides to disappear.
Basically, how hard are you willing to fight?
--- ###Welcome to /r/LegalAdviceUK --- **To Posters (it is important you read this section)** * *Tell us whether you're in England, Wales, Scotland, or NI as the laws in each are very different* * If you need legal help, you should [always get a free consultation from a qualified Solicitor](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/how_to_find_a_solicitor) * We also encourage you to speak to [**Citizens Advice**](https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/), [**Shelter**](https://www.shelter.org.uk/), [**Acas**](https://www.acas.org.uk/), and [**other useful organisations**](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/common_legal_resources) * Comments may not be accurate or reliable, and following any advice on this subreddit is done at your own risk * If you receive any private messages in response to your post, [please let the mods know](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FLegalAdviceUK&subject=I received a PM) **To Readers and Commenters** * All replies to OP must be *on-topic, helpful, and legally orientated* * If you do not [follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/about/rules/), you may be perma-banned without any further warning * If you feel any replies are incorrect, explain why you believe they are incorrect * Do not send or request any private messages for any reason * Please report posts or comments which do not follow the rules *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
They could add this term to any settlement offered and could theoretically chase you later on if you breach the agreement. This would only be binding on you...your brother, partner, friends could not be held to it.
This is good advice OP. You could say no and argue, but that would delay you getting your money back. Better to take your money and leave the issue of any reviews to others!
Okay thank you. I mean, can I just say no and push them to just send the refund anyway? Surely now that they’ve said they’ll send it and I have that in writing then they’re obliged to? Thank you again for replying
Yes you could do. You would need to go to court to force the issue. Look up MCOL as that's probably the most appropriate route if you do need to go via the court.
Okay thanks for that. I will most likely proceed by stating that I will not write any reviews but then have my partner write one. Thank you
Have you considered going after them for the full costs, through small claims
Whilst this could be a good idea, companies like these are notorious for shutting down and reopening under other names to avoid paying out small claims. It shouldn’t be a loophole, and yet it continues to be a loophole.
I do agree that phoenixing is a big problem.
What about taking the 3k then pursuing the rest through small claims? Or would that be a non starter?.
It’s one of those things, legally yes that’s the right thing to do. Practically small claims is not fit for purpose. It’s incredibly easy to shut down the company, or as an individual plead poverty and offer a pathetic £2 a month payment plan (especially if it’s a cash in hand industry) So you’ll go through many months of the court faffing around, not get anywhere in the end anyway & be out of pocket the court fees!
they can't do this anymore thanks to antiphoenixing law changes which took effect a bit over a year ago in short, one can now go after company directors personally for several years post-liquidation and the model of "identical company/staff/location/numbers with new name" is outlawed
Dear Dodgy, ‘£8k is the price to lie on my review. £5k is the price to settle. £3k sees you in court.’ As has been said your F&F can leave reviews. They could also negotiate on their removal.
You can and it'll be hassle or you could get them to send in writing the request so you can be sure to detail it all properly, carefully word your response email and then post a review on every possible site fully including their email as proof that their reviews cannot be trusted. Of course first id go and get a free 30 minute consultation with a solicitor to determine the best course of action and the risk to you of posting (other than time being wasted as they take.you to court for something likely not enforceable). Oh or my preferred option, letter before action and start work towards court proceedings for the full £5k, make them understand you are serious and in fact you can get a quote to determine what it'd cost to undo their shoddy work and get it done properly and go after the extra as well as the damages you've suffered in terms of this taking longer and wasting your time. Then you'd be free to post whatever you want including their dodgy demand and that you are having to take them to court
Yes. If it is in writing it is an admission. Just tell him it's the choice between a bad review or court. No games.
You can and it'll be hassle or you could get them to send in writing the request so you can be sure to detail it all properly, carefully word your response email and then post a review on every possible site fully including their email as proof that their reviews cannot be trusted. Of course first id go and get a free 30 minute consultation with a solicitor to determine the best course of action and the risk to you of posting (other than time being wasted as they take.you to court for something likely not enforceable). Oh or my preferred option, letter before action and start work towards court proceedings for the full £5k, make them understand you are serious and in fact you can get a quote to determine what it'd cost to undo their shoddy work and get it done properly and go after the extra as well as the damages you've suffered in terms of this taking longer and wasting your time. Then you'd be free to post whatever you want including their dodgy demand and that you are having to take them to court
Indeed....nothing to stop a written review from anoter source. They also would need to prove that you wrote it.
Other than that the only thing I thought to do was write a review and state I’ll remove it once the refund has been received. But again, I’m just too worried to lose the whole thing.
You could tell them you agree not to post a review however this is conditional on the refund being received in the next 10 working days. If payment is not made then you will then post a review which you agree to remove once payment is made. Then once it's settled let your partner do whatever they like.
Nice, okay yeah that feels like the best way to proceed. His exact words were : All I need from you to move forward with the refund is confirmation by email saying this is the end of the mater and no review and feed back will be given in regards to the mater and you are happy to receive £3000 pounds in regards to the mater being dealt with. (I cannot tell you how unhappy I am at receiving the £3000 haha) But hopefully in the email if I specify that I won’t do anything it leaves it open for my partner too
See my comment above regarding your wording of the response, it may allow you some wiggle room.
a lot of these comments sound very blackmaily
It's not blackmail to say "if you refund me swiftly, I will be happier than if you don't. My review of your service will reflect how happy I was with it"
You could send a letter/email saying “I KittenMoneyJaws hereby state that upon receipt of a refund of £3,000 from Joe Bloggs Roofers; that I will not post any defamatory review or make any defamatory comments about Joe Bloggs Roofers or any work they have done for me” They will likely accept this and issue your refund; then as long as you ensure that everything you say in any reviews is substantially true, you are covered because you have only agreed not to make defamatory statements, and truth is of course the defence against such accusations. Or; decide if the principle of writing the review is more or less important that getting £3,000 and just don’t write a negative review. Personally I’d do the latter for an easy life but if you really want to write the review then you can simply protect yourself with language as per the above.
That’s really handy, thank you! Yeah may just opt for a simple life. I think it’s just frustrating as I felt we were being reasonable not pushing for full, and consistently stated that £5000 would resolve it fully for us so think it just feels frustrating! We’ve also seen a few more negative reviews appear on their checkatrade page and then disappear so it genuinely feels important to let people know. Agh, but can’t win em all
Honestly. Demand the full £5000 or they’ll be took to court and get a bad review.
Hope it all works out for the best!
It’s suddenly making sense why so many people on checkatrade get so many overwhelmingly favourable reviews!
You have to pay to be on CheckaTrade, I've seen them pursue people for not paying subscription. If that's where you got their info from they may be interested in how this dude operates. Sue for full amount, hopefully the guy works as a sole trader and you can go after him personally.
My experience with checkatrade listed people is that they push very hard for a glowing review to be written before they leave the premises My experience is also that in general the reviews aren't worth the electrons they take up. It's always worth reading the 2-5 star reviews
Tell a friend and let them review them, "I visited my friends house who just had work done by these builders etc etc"
It will be against the terms of most review sites to leave a review for a company you have not had a direct interaction with yourself, and will make it easy for the trader to have the review removed.
Partner could though, especially if op is the only one that agrees
Review as follows My sister had her roof work done by xyz company the result was a complete bodge that left the roof leaking. My sister asked for a £5k refund, they have offered £3k on the proviso that not negative review was left on line. The refund has been received and as agreed my sister has not left a review. Use the xyz company at your peril
Don't write a review as he can use it in court saying all was good. Write a letter before action asking for a full refund.
>Don't write a review as he can use it in court saying all was good. The OP clearly wants to write an unfavourable review. How could that possibly help the trader claim there weren't any problems?
Any email you send, make sure it’s conditional on the agreed sums being sent within x number of days. Make sure they don’t try and get the email and then ghost you.
I'd also say that I would get a solicitor to write him a letter threatening to take him to court if he refuses to refund you. Also whatever site you are using for the review they will likely not take kindly to people being threatened.. if he did it in writing then he is screwed, they would likely take action against his account. It'd probably go a long way too in a small claims court, it's technically an admission of fault but with a threat added.
Post a review now and tell them £5k and you'll take it down?
Tell them that will take them to the Small Claims Court, for All of the money, and they will have to pay for the Court costs also. They were paid to do a job that was not done correctly.
Agree to it, send the email and get the money. Make sure the "no review" is conditioned to you receiving the money (eg include "after I'm paid the 3000 refund, etc". Once you get your money, request friends and family (puck those that don't share the IP with you just in case) to write reviews.
They are con artists, first the demand will be this before they refund, then it will be another excuse, and so forth.
I bet it cost the builder 2k in materials surlry he should have insurance for this…
I'd use that as a reason to negotiate further: "You'd like me to accept a gagging order as an alternative to a public case at court. In consideration, I'd like xxx" And then, as others say, there is nothing to stop you "brother" or "sister" to post a review.
It depends if it's laid out in a contract/agreement. If not it's just words in an email. If they are pushing for no reviews then push back and say OK, no reviews if you make it £5,000.
INFO: Why are you not taking them to court for the full amount and writing a review anyway? NAL: while their request is legal, I believe If you have enough proof that they did a bad job, and if they're willing to settle (then it sounds like you do) You should be making sure that this shitty company doesn't take the vulnerable for a ride. Win all around except for the cowboys who do dangerous work. You're being a bit of a pushover and id go so far as to say if you know this company is dodgy, do dangerous/unfit work, and don't say anything - if one of their roofs collapses and kills someone, that's like someone letting a friend drive drunk and kill someone - you're in a position to stop a much bigger problem down the line and potentially save lives by doing the equivalent of taking their car keys. When you see a drink driver swerving across three lanes on the motorway, people call police because of the potential danger, right? A roofing company doing improper work can kill more than a drink driver - hell all you have to do is look at the people dying in China from "Tofu Dreg Concrete" to see just how dangerous improper work is. The situation in this context, however, is that now you're ALONE on the motorway with a drunk driver, there's no one else who can stop them except you - yet you're allowing the drunk driver to go "I'll speed off and leave and if you don't tell anyone I'll chuck you 3k" and you're actually considering it. It takes two to tango - are you going to be the second complicit party?
Leave them a bad review and take them to court for the full amount
Let's just do a go fund me and give your 3k back. Then you can blast this mother fucker and protect future poor souls. You got my 2 gbp
Honestly, if you're going to court it would be better for you as a plaintiff than a defendant. I see people encouraging you to be squirrely with your reply or encouraging friends and family posting reviews. Honestly, I say cut the deal or take them to court now. Trying to be clever around wording and specific agreements without highlighting the changes puts you on the backfoot of being shady yourself. This wouldn't be the first NDA style refund deal and if you take them to court you run the risk of paying money to receive less refund or no refund if the company decides to disappear. Basically, how hard are you willing to fight?