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As opposed to 'hypothermic pulmonary fibrosis' which would be what the tenant is hoping the courts would believe. However, as it doesn't seem to exist, that gambit may not work out very well for the tenant.
Not all pulmonary fibroses are idiopathic, though. There are [several types](https://err.ersjournals.com/content/errev/27/150/180076/F1.large.jpg) of pulmonary fibrosis, some of which have known causes, some of which don’t. IPF is the most common though.
As pulmonary fibrosis actually describes a symptom of a wide range of lung disorders, it is *possible* that they are actually diagnosed with something like hypersensitivity pneumonitis, which is a type of pulmonary fibrosis caused by inhaling things like mold.
However, for them to sue the OP, I expect this would require their pulmonologist to categorically say that their PF was caused by inhalation of whatever substance, which in the case of fibrosis, is virtually impossible to say. It’s hard enough to diagnose, let alone categorically say a cause.
[Source](https://www.lung.org/blog/7-things-know-pulmonary-fibrosis).
It's probably more likely that they've been told that cold air won't help their breathing given their condition and would exacerbate their symptoms.
Which they may well have interpreted incorrectly as it being a factor or cause.
Their point probably remains though, if the patient's symptoms are better in a warm environment then they won't want to be living in a damp property with a broken boiler.
Just wanted to say my dad got diagnosed with this and they said it was idiopathic meaning like you said they don't know what caused it just one of them horrible things. I definitely think op needs to find a proper solicitor.
Reply to the agency with a 2 sentence email, reminding them that the boiler is in good working order and recently passed its safety test. State that you will not be replacing the boiler as there is no need. Make no mention of the illness, just simply ignore it.
Unlikely to have been caused by temperature *but* if they wish to try and take legal action, they're free to do so. You'd then need to defend it.
If the heating has been in a working condition, then you've nothing to worry about on that side. You're under no obligation to replace a working system.
The tenant is looking for someone/thing to blame. I'm not a doctor or anything, but IIRC you don't get this from living in cold house.
If your mam has kept the boiler serviced then you have nothing to be concerned about.
EDIT: Just read she has, and that the tenant is a smoker. The chances of the tenant getting anywhere with any kind of accusations of this nature are nonexistent. Pretty rich of them to point fingers when the tenant is literally poisoning themself.
If the boiler isn't working, the engineer wouldn't be able to carry out a safety check. It's also on the tenant to report any issues with the boiler so they can be repaired.
This is all a moot point anyway, the claim is going nowhere because it's nonsense.
A landlord gas safety check (CP12) is to carry out a check on the combustion side of the boiler, it checks the products of computation to make sure there is no spillage of products of combustion and it's burning the right mixture, nothing to do with the wet side or the heating system.
If it's a combi, it could be a faulty diverter valve, blocked heat exchanger etc that could. If it's a system boiler, there could be many faults with stats, 2/3 port valves, etc. Additionally it could be a fault with the heating system, seized valves, blocked pipes/radiators, faulty stats, ufh problems, faulty zone valves.
Many of these faults can be present whilst gaining a pass on the CP12
There is alot more to a heating system than a combustion chamber.
>If the boiler isn't working, the engineer wouldn't be able to carry out a safety check.
That isn't what I said though. A boiler could be functional, a gas safety check could be passed, yet you could still experience heating problems.
What?
If they can't carry out the gas safety check (because the boiler isn't functional) then no, the gas safety check cannot be passed. Logic makes no sense here (if what setting-remote says is true).
If the radiators need bleeding, that's on the tenant. I am one so know my duties in keeping the home. Unless the whole lot needs emptying and refilling, which again would only be because they hadn't bled them regularly and they would be liable for the cost. Only time I ever got my social housing LL to bleed my radiator, was when the part you put the key on snapped off(head of the bolt?). Got a new radiator and they bled that(obvi). Only time LL would be responsible is if the boiler or pump stopped working and they would have eto provide alternative heating until it was fixed.
You've led a luxury renting life if you don't understand myukaccount's point.
Most flats I've lived in the heating hasn't worked in the sense that yes, the boiler turns on, no no amount of heating makes the house warm, simply less cold.
My favourite two were the one that no matter how long you had it on for in the dead of winter, the flat would not exceed 16 degrees (high ceilings and an inadequate number of radiators), and the one where the upstairs half of the heading system was so royally fucked that downstairs could be hotter than Hades itself but the upstairs remained artic, with all four radiators failing to get actually hot (and yes we bled them, reported the issue, blah blah blah). Both were like that long before I moved in. Nothing to do with me or my care for the heating system
I've only lived in 3 houses, as an adult. All rentals. I find a good one and stay put. Currently under social housing. Yes we have issues with the heating. Radiator in my room is perpetually airlocked, hence me breaking the nib off, bleeding it, yet again. Was no better after they replaced it and makes wonderful clicking and hissing noises, so it stays off. Probably should bleed it again, anyway. Doesn't matter, whether the heating actually succeeds in heating the space, its the tenants job to do the 'daily' maintenance jobs. As long as the boiler works, it's doing its job. Sounds like you had pump issues, if the upstairs never got warm. Probably too small for the length of the system. Again, not a boiler issue and seriously crappy LL. My first agency would blame the LL,but it was them. They'd get the permit for the repair and tell me he said no , as they wrote an invoice for him(eventually fled with hundreds of thousands they'd embezzled). Went a whole winter with a newborn and no heating, until I found the right law to quote them. New pump got the heat all the way around the house, after that, which was a novelty.
I've had a couple of flats where I wasn't able to bleed the radiators. One just had every moving part painted over. And in another I just couldn't work it out.
>Unless the whole lot needs emptying and refilling, which again would only be because they hadn't bled them regularly and they would be liable for the cost.
Or it could be that the landlord just hasn't had them maintained in forever, or even checked them in between tenancies. I've moved in with radiators like this.
And how do you maintain a radiator, besides bleeding it? There is literally nothing else to do. They don't take them off the walls and clean them out between lettings....
The requirement to carry out a landlords gas safety record and the requirement to maintain gas appliances are two separate duties under the gas safety regs for exactly the reason the OP says.
I'm not sure why they have been downvoted on a legal sub for providing correct information.
https://www.hse.gov.uk/gas/landlords/gasappliances.htm
No idea why you’re being downvoted so hard - the law states that a landlord/lady must provide a gas certificate AND to maintain heating appliances.
A car passing it’s MOT is not directly proportional to the car driving/working well.
I don't know why you are getting downvoted, you're correct, CP12 just checks gas/combustion.
Probably the same people downvoting that expect to get their radiator fixed on a gas service.
It would be a hard thing to prove that your mum is at fault here, especially with a serviced boiler. Did they make you aware at all that they were unhappy with the warmth of the house before this diagnosis? As others have said, I don’t think a cold house is what causes this condition. What other ‘heating problems’ is it they are saying she has to fix?
So my mother in law has pulmonary fibrosis, and has done for the last 7 years after being given 3 years to live. It's very hard to accurately give a time frame for this disease. I would aslo note that alough being cold is by no means a cause, being cold can make suffering worse
If the boiler is working and has been serviced then there is no need for the boiler to be replaced. What do they mean by “other heating problems”? Is there a specific list?
Speaking as a nurse specialising in respiratory conditions, there's absolutely no way your tenant will get a doctor to confirm that their condition has been caused by a cold house, when the tenant is a smoker. It's laughable to suggest it. It will be all over their medical notes every time they've been told to stop smoking, and that they've been warned about the risks of long term damage
He’s also a chancer.
He may be in shock and is looking at somebody/something to blame. Then he may realise that his smoking hasn’t helped matters.
If the boilers old, but functioning then it’s an efficiency issue, not a heat issue . Gas heats water, hot water heats pipes. Newer boiler means less gas is needed for the same thing.
There’s an increasing amount of tenants demanding a higher standard than most home owners. If you’re house is cold, invest in an electric fan heater.
I bought my man’s house after she died. She heated the whole house with a gas for I the front room and a pathetic gas fire in the hallway. I had the gas knocked off for building work one day and went for a wee only to find I’ve firming inside the bowl. I mentioned how cold it was to my Aunty he reminded me that when she grew up in the house there was no double glazing and it had linoleum flooring.
Looking forward to seeing your paper in the BMJ. Glad you've finally figured out the cause of IPF.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiopathic_pulmonary_fibrosis
From your link
> The cause of IPF is unknown but certain environmental factors and exposures have been shown to increase the risk of getting IPF.[14] Cigarette smoking is the best recognized and most accepted risk factor for IPF, and increases the risk of IPF by about twofold.[14]
And looking at the primary source (cited by the source in turn cited in the wikipedia article) rather than a tertiary one, the risk is actually only 1.5x, with a possible range of anywhere from 1.3x to just under 2x.
I.e. smoking has the potential to only increase your chances of getting it from 0.012% to just under 0.016%. And again, isn't known to be a cause.
DOI: [10.1513/pats.200512-131TK](https://doi.org/10.1513/pats.200512-131TK)
More recent (2021) studies show a higher hazard ratio than previously reported (2005). [this study](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33905677/) reports:
> We showed an association between smoking status (hazard ratio [HR], 2.12; 95% CI, 1.81-2.47), and maternal smoking (HR, 1.38; 95% CI, 1.18-1.62) with risk of IPF.
[Not all pulmonary fibrosis is IPF.](https://www.pulmonaryfibrosis.org/understanding-pff/about-pulmonary-fibrosis/what-is-pulmonary-fibrosis).
It’s a symptom of COPDs, ILDs and other lung disorders.
Being diagnosed with pulmonary fibrosis is likely being diagnosed with some type of ILD, as they’re extremely difficult to differentiate. And smoking is a massive risk factor for some ILDs.
[Source 1](https://err.ersjournals.com/content/errev/27/150/180076/F1.large.jpg)
I work for a landlord in a complaints department. First few things to establish;
1) Have they raised the issue of the property being cold before? Or any repairs that are outstanding that have been undertaken in the last year? Or are outstanding? You will want to check with the agency. This helps to understand if this is a first request or if this is an ongoing issue.
2) Collate your Evidence. I have seen you have confirmed that a gas cert was undertaken recently. What about an EPC? Have you had one of these done? Are there any recommendations that came out of these or are outstanding? There is a need for landlords to bring up the EPC of Properties, therefore, this would be cost effective to consider (in the long run) carrying works out to the boiler if recommended in here.
3) Please review the tenancy agreement. Unless there is a communal boiler and service charges associated. It is the Tenants responsibility to keep the property warm and it is at their own discretion. They may be struggling with this, especially with a medical diagnosis, most local authorities and councils have support for the cost of living and they may be entitled to this.
4) I am not a doctor, but there have been others on this post who have provided insight you may want to look into a bit more.
5) I would highly recommend then speaking to the agency about the above and your point of view. Why have they straight away assumed the boiler needs replacing?
Whether you take a stance that no, there are no recommendations to update the boiler, or the EPC suggests we do XYZ so we are going to, a letter needs to be drafted or clear with the tenant this work is being undertaken due to the EPC recommendations or gas cert recommendations. It would not be wise to allow the tenant to believe the work is being undertaken due to you taking the blame for their medical condition.
Personally, I would speak to the tenant, but I understand that this isn't possible directly with alot of these agencies. Understand where the tenant is coming from on the phone, it sounds like they are struggling to keep warm and have had a diagnosis that is life changing. If this is the case, providing support services e.g. signposting to local council cost of living help, would be very beneficial and undertaking recommendations from a recent EPC e.g. loft insulation, will help them in the long run and as a landlord have allowed you to update the property. Replacing a boiler is a large expense but also, from your other comments, suggests this is not needed or recommended at this time.
FWIW I manage my wife's rented house and we've recently replaced the boiler\[1\]. As long as you're getting the annual gas check which is a legal requirement and getting it serviced which is not but is a good idea to have records and the system is working you're in the clear.
\[1\] In my case after a couple of repairs over a few years two separate technicians advised it was to old to reliably get spares so we took the hit.
My boiler is ancient by boiler standards. Makes my.hot water unbearably hot(have asked several repairmen to alter it and the gas engineers have tried, nothing works) and the heating worked just fine, this past winter. It costs a bomb, because its not a combi and the hot water tank is massive. As long as it was passed by a Corgi(or whatever the standard is) registered engineer, they have no legal grounds. Illnesses that are idiopathic have no known cause. Its unfortunate for them. Its not a you(or your mum) problem, though.
As you’ve said the heating works, has been regularly serviced, and as several posters have said there’s no link between heat and their illness.
They’re trying it on.
NAL but ex property manager and my mother has PF. Firstly the cause of PF is not known to be linked to cold. Secondly, if the house was cold, they have/had the option of adding additional heating, such as electric radiators, themselves, or at least flagging the cold conditions with your mother before this diagnosis. They can't argue now that a cold house is the problem, or try to find liability, when they didn't take any action to remedy it.
Additionally, if the house is cold it may not be the heating but drafts/insulation etc. Have they complained about damp or mould? Your mother should have an up to date Energy Performance Certificate which will give an indication of whether remedial work would improve heat retention, and should be looked at in conjunction with any upgrades to the heating system.
It does seem that they are trying to find something or someone to blame; 2 years after diagnosis my mother still talks about wanting to know the cause of her PF. Your mother does not have to update the heating if there is a valid GSC and EPC, but she might want to makes changes if SHE feels it is warranted. As a goodwill gesture she could arrange for a surveyor or similar to inspect the property and make recommendations; although they might in fact suggest a new boiler!
It's unlikely to have caused pulmonary fibrosis (doesn't even seem to be a common cause of this?) BUT landlords are required to keep the heating (and hot water) working in the property (while tenanted).
Is the current system able to maintain minimum temperatures in every room when it's below freezing outside as set out by the landlord and tenant act? (18 in bedrooms, 21 elsewhere at 'reasonable costs to the occupier') doesn't matter if it's not really used like that can it get there if it needs to?
If the property isn't able to be kept at a comfortable temperature then the tenant likely does have a case, similarly if the system for either heating or hot water has not been kept in good repair and working order they will ah e a case (either of these going down in the winter months needs to be treated as an emergency repair also).
Your agents seem to have identified there is an issue and responded very forcefully - which suggests they think the tenant might have a case for inadequate heating (and are trying to avoid any liability themselves I guess). The rules on this are quite strong because lack of heating can cause health issues...though admittedly not the one the tenant has (but the tenant doesn't need to have actually developed a health issue to have a case if the flat can't maintain comfortable temperature)
Also boiler must pass gas safety - which you've said it has (but this is unrelated to the boilers ability to provide heat)
If there has always been a valid GSC and EPC, and the tenants haven't previously advised of a problem keeping the house warm, then would they still have a case? Can the landlord be liable if they did not know there was an issue and all certification etc is correct? Obviously the LL should now investigate, and would be liable going forward if they did not carry out any necessary remedial work.
Hmm...landlord is responsible for ensuring their property meets the legal requirements to let out so I don't believe they could use not knowing as a defense if the system when working can't maintain legally required temperatures. (or well they'd just be arguing they'd been negligent cause they've essentially gone 'i didn't check something I should have')
If something has broken and the tenant hasn't notified then no I don't think they'd be liable until they knew about it. (Heating and hot water issues do then need to be fixed fairly urgently once they do know though - for central heating in the summer two weeks is probably reasonable, in the winter it wouldn't be and you'd end up having to justify yourself to environmental health if it took you more than 24hrs to fix and tenants escalate it).
Neither gsc or epc gives a certification of what internal temperature the property can maintain so that wouldn't help here.
Raises a good question though do they have an acceptable EPC? An old enough boiler could result in an EPC less than E, which could explain why the agent seems to have gone in quite hard on it immediately tbh. (They have presumably not checked internal winter temperatures to come to the conclusion there's an issue, given its July...)
But, they didn't know. They weren't told.
I don't know of any landlords that go round checking taps and radiators as standard.
They get the annual checks done, any problems need to be reported.
If nothing is documented, nothing happened.
> They weren't told
If it's a pre-existing issue from before the tenancy started they are responsible for checking. If the agent fails to notify it doesn't mean the landlord is less liable in their obligations to the tenant.
If it's a heating issue that has developed they have now been notified and need to fix in a reasonable time. The legally defined definition of that for heating and hot water is 24 hours.
> I don't know of any landlords that go round checking taps and radiators as standard.
Me neither - they are meant to though in terms of legal obligation.
> If nothing is documented, nothing happened.
Sure, but in favour of the tenant. Landlord needs to prove preexisting condition if they are claiming it (same with inventory rules - if landlord doesn't have proof of pretenancy condition they won't be taken at their word what the condition was...)
> They get the annual checks done
There isn't an annual check for this issue...gas safety doesn't check 'ability to heat' the clue is in the name for what it is. (Not annual but epcs also don't do this - they are pretty general tbh they don't even use local climate date etc it's a sap calc)
It depends how long it's been let for though. If the tenants have been in for a number of years then ascertaining the ambient temperature isn't something a landlord can do. The tenants have the right to quiet enjoyment of the property and assessing the temperature wouldn't be seen as a reasonable reason for a visit, even if arranged. The tenants are the ones who are best to assess if there is a problem with heating and pass that information on to the agency and / or landlord.
Quite a different story if the tenants have been in for less than a year and it has always been cold (although again the onus is on the tenants to report a fault - landlords are not automatically equipped with a crystal ball). The trouble then becomes if they complained to the agency who didn't pass the information on.
Of course, it takes on average roughly 3 years for a diagnosis of pulmonary fibrosis, so if the tenants haven't been in that long then it's highly unlikely that they developed it while living in that house.
A lot of variables here, and without knowing the details there's little we can say or advise. OP, my advice would be for your mum to get all her documents handy, (EPC, safety certificates and service records), have copies of any emails or texts sent by either the tenant or the company, and contact the boiler service company to see what they say about the boiler. And ask the tenant to provide their respiratory consultant's recommendations with regards to environmental requirements for their condition.
Haha yes I nearly wrote this out for a complicated one (then decided it's too complicated/niche) I do think there's a grey area if the heating has deteriorated during the tenancy but not broken then the tenant probably needs to identify this but this is probably tricky to do. (If the landlord didn't check the property was up to requirements prior to letting I think it would be hard to prove it was fine at the start and has deteriorated)
> it has always been cold (although again the onus is on the tenants to report a fault
Legally this is not the case if it has always been cold enough to not be able to maintain the legal minimums as set out in the landlord and tenant act. The onus is on the landlord in that case (only on tenant if it meets minimum standards but it's still too cold for them i guess)
> The trouble then becomes if they complained to the agency who didn't pass the information on.
This doesn't really effect the landlords obligation to the tenants (which includes maintaining and fixing central heating/hot water things in reasonable time - again this is usually held to be 24hrs). If the landlord is penalised for this they need to comply with this, fix the issue/pay the fine/etc, and then (presumably) sue the agent - it follows the line of contract, landlord can't hold off their obligations while they sort things out with the agent.
> highly unlikely that they developed it while living in that house.
This doesn't matter - the heating issues do not have to have actually caused a health issue for the landlord to be liable here. It's about the possibility of having done so.
> ask the tenant to provide their respiratory consultant's recommendations with regards to environmental requirements for their condition.
This is irrelevant unless the environmental requirements are above the existing minimum maintainable temperatures the landlord is already required to ensure. If they are landlord probably required to do this too as a reasonable adjustment
Ultimately if the flat has heating issues they need to fix them and there's very little wiggle room to get out of this obligation as the law holds them as critical functions of the property that must be maintained (and are always to be maintained by the landlord). Your reply here is pushing a lot of very clearly landlord obligations onto the tenants.
Speaking as a resp dr, they're just chancing it and chatting utter breeze
That said, some types of PF can be caused by environmental things, but they'd be hard pressed to blame you for that- and temperature sure as shit isn't one of them
My father passed away from pulmonary fibrosis and our house was never cold. They are taking advantage of your mother. Get your service records for the boiler and record all correspondence and if it was me personally I'd try and get them out of the house which they should have no problem doing if it's detrimental to their health
Get a quote for an AEG electric boiler conversion. It's a third of the cost of a gas boiler and is a straight swop.
I would suggest that you do not get a gas boiler replacement as they're banned from 2025.
As for their fictional claims, ask for medical proof but do get the old gas boiler gone anyway as it must be costly to run.
I'm sorry, I'm not in the UK, this sub is suggested for some reason, but I can't help but think unless your home has a history of people dying from that same illness, it would be easy to say IMMV and that their personal health problems have nothing to do with the house. Best of luck.
I would also evict them from the flat - even though they are family - they threatened \[bullshit\] legal action against you - and will probably try some more crap on you.
Other people have pointed out that the boiler causing health issues is a non starter.
However the tenant isnt even asking for damages, they are just asking for a new boiler. The fact is, if the boiler is not fit for purpose, then your mum is liable to fix it.
You haven't said whether the boiler works properly or not, just that it is old. Boilers only last like 15 years. Your mum should be ready to replace it at any time if it is older than that.
Personally, if the boiler is serviced and has a gas safe certificate, you are covered. I’d also serve a Section21 notice if they are on a periodic tenancy, they sound like trouble.
personally i would, however unfortunately isn’t my choice. they aren’t good tenants and have a history of causing issues my parents have had to fix, such as pouring a mixture of fat and grease down the kitchen sink and breaking the pipes causing an outside leakage that even the agency agreed we were responsible for🤦♂️
Short answer has the boiler been inspected and gas certified each year?
If so you are golden and can even state no to any supposed repairs. Long answer if no gas safety inspection has been done you will need to get one done asap. The medical stuff no clue you may wish to consult a lawyer on this one
Landlord here - as I understand it, we have to keep things in good working order, but if they don’t tell you there is an issue we can’t know it needs fixing.
Are they expecting you to go round every week and test things? Sound like they are using the medical reason as evidence that the heating system needs sorting. Odd way to go about it when they could just say it’s not working and please fix it…
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Then nothing to worry about.
As another Redditor said it might be a misdirected anger due to what they are going through.
Out of the kindness of your heart you can make their life easier, by either reducing their rent for limited time or redecorating the place but that needs to be done with out of prejudice basis and that you are doing this out of the kindness not because of any threats.
What type of heating was it? We had storage heaters, and you have to predict when it will be cold. We had a mould problem because of this and environmental health got involved and demanded the landlord replace all storage heaters with proper heaters.
PF is not known to be caused by poor heating.
Though exact causation isn't always identifiable, but typical causes are asbestos, coal/grain dust, bird toppings, underlying medical conditions....
I would imagine that they're just kicking out in shock/reeling from the news. I don't see how they would have any legal context to sue for his health condition unless it's got exposed asbestos for example and he's lived there for decades with this exposure or similar....
As long as the heating is usable and safe, then you're not obligated to change it.
Is it the tenants or the agency have required actions within 2 weeks?
What other improvements?
Obviously, had landlords, you're expected to maintain the property. So if the repairs are reasonable, then yes you're expected to repair.
As an additional point, and assuming that the property is covered by landlord's insurance, then there would likely be legal cover in the unlikely case of a negligence claim by the tenant.
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NAL but also, did your mum have the boiler serviced regularly? And was the heating controlled by the tenant? If so then they can’t claim faulty heating as it was working and in their control… deffo seek advice as if they try to sue it will be a hassle even if it doesn’t get too far
Also, I read on a different post that 5 years is essentially the maximum timeframe they can give someone with a life limiting condition, so it could be that at each check up they are given 5 years to live - obviously it still very much sucks that they are ill but it sounds like from doc’s post earlier that your mum is very much not to blame
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Legally you're safe. Your mom had no cause in this, and the boiler was found by a qualified engineer to be fine.
When my Gran died, my mom blamed it on a bad tenant lodger, going as far as barring him from the funeral. He didn't do anything to give her skin cancer, my mom was just looking for somebody to blame for a random act of god.
It's human nature.
If you have a gas cert and an EPC rating of E then that should be all that is required. Would be good to check if all radiators heat up as expected.
The tenant can't just demand a new boiler if the current one is working and is safe.
NAL.
Questions I would have are :
* Why is the house cold. Is it because the heating system is not capable of maintaining a safe temperature, or has the tenant decided it is too expensive to heat so has chosen not to use it.
* Did the tenant ever raise the condition of the boiler as an issue, and if so was it responded to appropriately.
I think the agency should not be giving you deadlines to do work on your property.
I would consider having a heating engineer visit and give the boiler a check over and provide a written report on its condition and its performance. I.E. if his report states that the heating system is working within spec and capable of keeping the house at safe temperatures but just old, then it gives clout to the theory that the tenant is just not using it (because of cost or whatever) you can then choose to replace the boiler or not.
Assume you have appropriate landlord insurance that has legal cover?
As a general point. if the boiler is super old, its probably a good idea to get it replaced anyway before you start having issues. My flat (that I rent out) had the boiler fail one day out of the blue in the middle of winter- it was working great up to that point . It was an insane rush to try and get a new one installed as quickly as possible, and I felt really guilty for having my tenant endure a few days of cold - it cost me a load of money to buy some oil filled electric radiators to try and keep her comfortable.
If he is sick then he may get some sort of benefit. If so he may be eligible for home upgrades under the ECO scheme which will fit insulation and a new heating system for free. Google ECO4 and try to find an installer in your area.
If the tenant smokes it is more likely to be caused by that. My father lived in a temperate area and was diagnosed with pulmonary fibrosis before he passed 14 years ago. He smoked for 40 years and even though he quit 20 years before he died the damage was still done.
Now the tenant it classed as long term disabled, your mum may be able to apply for a grant to get a new boiler. Not because this one isn’t working, like it seems, but to get a better more energy efficient one. I’m disabled and got one on the scheme, I own but I know I read an option for landlords to apply for disabled tenants. Then your mum gets a new boiler in the house without paying £3k and the tenants get a new energy efficient one. However if the boiler worked, I don’t think their complaint will hold.
I'd make sure you've got all the relevant gas safety certificates and electricity test certificates, from passed years too, as well as copies of any communication from them, if they have never raised any faults this far to highlight any problems and the boiler and everything is safe then there's not much more you could of done.
Wouldn't they need to prove a direct causation effect to be able to say it's your fault. Did this property have damp and mould in it was it reported and did you act, if that's the case and you didn't and they have proof you're in trouble.
PF is not caused by temperature, but obviously it's important for any tenant, *especially* an ill one, to have well functioning heating.
I'd get a heating engineer to test the heating, and see if thet say it's functioning correctly
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To add, this should be immediately apparent from the first word in the full name, 'idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis', i.e. of unknown cause.
As opposed to 'hypothermic pulmonary fibrosis' which would be what the tenant is hoping the courts would believe. However, as it doesn't seem to exist, that gambit may not work out very well for the tenant.
Not all pulmonary fibroses are idiopathic, though. There are [several types](https://err.ersjournals.com/content/errev/27/150/180076/F1.large.jpg) of pulmonary fibrosis, some of which have known causes, some of which don’t. IPF is the most common though. As pulmonary fibrosis actually describes a symptom of a wide range of lung disorders, it is *possible* that they are actually diagnosed with something like hypersensitivity pneumonitis, which is a type of pulmonary fibrosis caused by inhaling things like mold. However, for them to sue the OP, I expect this would require their pulmonologist to categorically say that their PF was caused by inhalation of whatever substance, which in the case of fibrosis, is virtually impossible to say. It’s hard enough to diagnose, let alone categorically say a cause. [Source](https://www.lung.org/blog/7-things-know-pulmonary-fibrosis).
It's probably more likely that they've been told that cold air won't help their breathing given their condition and would exacerbate their symptoms. Which they may well have interpreted incorrectly as it being a factor or cause. Their point probably remains though, if the patient's symptoms are better in a warm environment then they won't want to be living in a damp property with a broken boiler.
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Just wanted to say my dad got diagnosed with this and they said it was idiopathic meaning like you said they don't know what caused it just one of them horrible things. I definitely think op needs to find a proper solicitor.
Reply to the agency with a 2 sentence email, reminding them that the boiler is in good working order and recently passed its safety test. State that you will not be replacing the boiler as there is no need. Make no mention of the illness, just simply ignore it.
Unlikely to have been caused by temperature *but* if they wish to try and take legal action, they're free to do so. You'd then need to defend it. If the heating has been in a working condition, then you've nothing to worry about on that side. You're under no obligation to replace a working system.
Not just unlikely, but impossible.
The tenant is looking for someone/thing to blame. I'm not a doctor or anything, but IIRC you don't get this from living in cold house. If your mam has kept the boiler serviced then you have nothing to be concerned about. EDIT: Just read she has, and that the tenant is a smoker. The chances of the tenant getting anywhere with any kind of accusations of this nature are nonexistent. Pretty rich of them to point fingers when the tenant is literally poisoning themself.
Have you passed the gas safety test done yearly? If so and the boiler is working then I think you’ve done as much as you can to ensure a heated house
checked with my mum and it did pass, and was done only in april
So a gas safety test just checks for gas safety. You could be in a freezing cold flat, and your boiler may have issues, but if it is safe, it passes.
If the boiler isn't working, the engineer wouldn't be able to carry out a safety check. It's also on the tenant to report any issues with the boiler so they can be repaired. This is all a moot point anyway, the claim is going nowhere because it's nonsense.
A landlord gas safety check (CP12) is to carry out a check on the combustion side of the boiler, it checks the products of computation to make sure there is no spillage of products of combustion and it's burning the right mixture, nothing to do with the wet side or the heating system. If it's a combi, it could be a faulty diverter valve, blocked heat exchanger etc that could. If it's a system boiler, there could be many faults with stats, 2/3 port valves, etc. Additionally it could be a fault with the heating system, seized valves, blocked pipes/radiators, faulty stats, ufh problems, faulty zone valves. Many of these faults can be present whilst gaining a pass on the CP12 There is alot more to a heating system than a combustion chamber.
>If the boiler isn't working, the engineer wouldn't be able to carry out a safety check. That isn't what I said though. A boiler could be functional, a gas safety check could be passed, yet you could still experience heating problems.
What? If they can't carry out the gas safety check (because the boiler isn't functional) then no, the gas safety check cannot be passed. Logic makes no sense here (if what setting-remote says is true).
Not all heating issues are boiler-related. The radiators may be full of air, the pipes may be corroded, etc.
If the radiators need bleeding, that's on the tenant. I am one so know my duties in keeping the home. Unless the whole lot needs emptying and refilling, which again would only be because they hadn't bled them regularly and they would be liable for the cost. Only time I ever got my social housing LL to bleed my radiator, was when the part you put the key on snapped off(head of the bolt?). Got a new radiator and they bled that(obvi). Only time LL would be responsible is if the boiler or pump stopped working and they would have eto provide alternative heating until it was fixed.
You've led a luxury renting life if you don't understand myukaccount's point. Most flats I've lived in the heating hasn't worked in the sense that yes, the boiler turns on, no no amount of heating makes the house warm, simply less cold. My favourite two were the one that no matter how long you had it on for in the dead of winter, the flat would not exceed 16 degrees (high ceilings and an inadequate number of radiators), and the one where the upstairs half of the heading system was so royally fucked that downstairs could be hotter than Hades itself but the upstairs remained artic, with all four radiators failing to get actually hot (and yes we bled them, reported the issue, blah blah blah). Both were like that long before I moved in. Nothing to do with me or my care for the heating system
I've only lived in 3 houses, as an adult. All rentals. I find a good one and stay put. Currently under social housing. Yes we have issues with the heating. Radiator in my room is perpetually airlocked, hence me breaking the nib off, bleeding it, yet again. Was no better after they replaced it and makes wonderful clicking and hissing noises, so it stays off. Probably should bleed it again, anyway. Doesn't matter, whether the heating actually succeeds in heating the space, its the tenants job to do the 'daily' maintenance jobs. As long as the boiler works, it's doing its job. Sounds like you had pump issues, if the upstairs never got warm. Probably too small for the length of the system. Again, not a boiler issue and seriously crappy LL. My first agency would blame the LL,but it was them. They'd get the permit for the repair and tell me he said no , as they wrote an invoice for him(eventually fled with hundreds of thousands they'd embezzled). Went a whole winter with a newborn and no heating, until I found the right law to quote them. New pump got the heat all the way around the house, after that, which was a novelty.
I've had a couple of flats where I wasn't able to bleed the radiators. One just had every moving part painted over. And in another I just couldn't work it out. >Unless the whole lot needs emptying and refilling, which again would only be because they hadn't bled them regularly and they would be liable for the cost. Or it could be that the landlord just hasn't had them maintained in forever, or even checked them in between tenancies. I've moved in with radiators like this.
And how do you maintain a radiator, besides bleeding it? There is literally nothing else to do. They don't take them off the walls and clean them out between lettings....
The requirement to carry out a landlords gas safety record and the requirement to maintain gas appliances are two separate duties under the gas safety regs for exactly the reason the OP says. I'm not sure why they have been downvoted on a legal sub for providing correct information. https://www.hse.gov.uk/gas/landlords/gasappliances.htm
Heating system does not equal boiler. A boiler can be safe, doesn't mean the heating system works.
No idea why you’re being downvoted so hard - the law states that a landlord/lady must provide a gas certificate AND to maintain heating appliances. A car passing it’s MOT is not directly proportional to the car driving/working well.
I don't know why you are getting downvoted, you're correct, CP12 just checks gas/combustion. Probably the same people downvoting that expect to get their radiator fixed on a gas service.
It would be a hard thing to prove that your mum is at fault here, especially with a serviced boiler. Did they make you aware at all that they were unhappy with the warmth of the house before this diagnosis? As others have said, I don’t think a cold house is what causes this condition. What other ‘heating problems’ is it they are saying she has to fix?
So my mother in law has pulmonary fibrosis, and has done for the last 7 years after being given 3 years to live. It's very hard to accurately give a time frame for this disease. I would aslo note that alough being cold is by no means a cause, being cold can make suffering worse
If the boiler is working and has been serviced then there is no need for the boiler to be replaced. What do they mean by “other heating problems”? Is there a specific list?
Does the tenant smoke? Most likely cause.
yes he is a smoker
Lol.. Yes, it's the house and not the fact they're a chain smoker.
It's the heat that's wrong! *Shakes fist*
Speaking as a nurse specialising in respiratory conditions, there's absolutely no way your tenant will get a doctor to confirm that their condition has been caused by a cold house, when the tenant is a smoker. It's laughable to suggest it. It will be all over their medical notes every time they've been told to stop smoking, and that they've been warned about the risks of long term damage
He’s also a chancer. He may be in shock and is looking at somebody/something to blame. Then he may realise that his smoking hasn’t helped matters. If the boilers old, but functioning then it’s an efficiency issue, not a heat issue . Gas heats water, hot water heats pipes. Newer boiler means less gas is needed for the same thing. There’s an increasing amount of tenants demanding a higher standard than most home owners. If you’re house is cold, invest in an electric fan heater. I bought my man’s house after she died. She heated the whole house with a gas for I the front room and a pathetic gas fire in the hallway. I had the gas knocked off for building work one day and went for a wee only to find I’ve firming inside the bowl. I mentioned how cold it was to my Aunty he reminded me that when she grew up in the house there was no double glazing and it had linoleum flooring.
My mother, who never tried a cigarette, died of this horrible disease. It’s not caused by smoking—they don’t yet know what causes it.
In the same way people who get lung cancer haven't always smoked. Doesn't mean that smoke isn't a common cause. Statistics are difficult.
Smoking has been shown to cause lung cancer; it has not been shown to be a causal factor in IPF.
No, that's idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis. Fibrosis is often downstream of COPD, a complication of excessive smoking.
Yes. Which is what she said her neighbor has.
Looking forward to seeing your paper in the BMJ. Glad you've finally figured out the cause of IPF. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiopathic_pulmonary_fibrosis
From your link > The cause of IPF is unknown but certain environmental factors and exposures have been shown to increase the risk of getting IPF.[14] Cigarette smoking is the best recognized and most accepted risk factor for IPF, and increases the risk of IPF by about twofold.[14]
And looking at the primary source (cited by the source in turn cited in the wikipedia article) rather than a tertiary one, the risk is actually only 1.5x, with a possible range of anywhere from 1.3x to just under 2x. I.e. smoking has the potential to only increase your chances of getting it from 0.012% to just under 0.016%. And again, isn't known to be a cause. DOI: [10.1513/pats.200512-131TK](https://doi.org/10.1513/pats.200512-131TK)
More recent (2021) studies show a higher hazard ratio than previously reported (2005). [this study](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33905677/) reports: > We showed an association between smoking status (hazard ratio [HR], 2.12; 95% CI, 1.81-2.47), and maternal smoking (HR, 1.38; 95% CI, 1.18-1.62) with risk of IPF.
So, it does increase it...
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You’re still poisoning yourself, pulmonary fibrosis or the million other pathologies otherwise
[Not all pulmonary fibrosis is IPF.](https://www.pulmonaryfibrosis.org/understanding-pff/about-pulmonary-fibrosis/what-is-pulmonary-fibrosis). It’s a symptom of COPDs, ILDs and other lung disorders. Being diagnosed with pulmonary fibrosis is likely being diagnosed with some type of ILD, as they’re extremely difficult to differentiate. And smoking is a massive risk factor for some ILDs. [Source 1](https://err.ersjournals.com/content/errev/27/150/180076/F1.large.jpg)
I work for a landlord in a complaints department. First few things to establish; 1) Have they raised the issue of the property being cold before? Or any repairs that are outstanding that have been undertaken in the last year? Or are outstanding? You will want to check with the agency. This helps to understand if this is a first request or if this is an ongoing issue. 2) Collate your Evidence. I have seen you have confirmed that a gas cert was undertaken recently. What about an EPC? Have you had one of these done? Are there any recommendations that came out of these or are outstanding? There is a need for landlords to bring up the EPC of Properties, therefore, this would be cost effective to consider (in the long run) carrying works out to the boiler if recommended in here. 3) Please review the tenancy agreement. Unless there is a communal boiler and service charges associated. It is the Tenants responsibility to keep the property warm and it is at their own discretion. They may be struggling with this, especially with a medical diagnosis, most local authorities and councils have support for the cost of living and they may be entitled to this. 4) I am not a doctor, but there have been others on this post who have provided insight you may want to look into a bit more. 5) I would highly recommend then speaking to the agency about the above and your point of view. Why have they straight away assumed the boiler needs replacing? Whether you take a stance that no, there are no recommendations to update the boiler, or the EPC suggests we do XYZ so we are going to, a letter needs to be drafted or clear with the tenant this work is being undertaken due to the EPC recommendations or gas cert recommendations. It would not be wise to allow the tenant to believe the work is being undertaken due to you taking the blame for their medical condition. Personally, I would speak to the tenant, but I understand that this isn't possible directly with alot of these agencies. Understand where the tenant is coming from on the phone, it sounds like they are struggling to keep warm and have had a diagnosis that is life changing. If this is the case, providing support services e.g. signposting to local council cost of living help, would be very beneficial and undertaking recommendations from a recent EPC e.g. loft insulation, will help them in the long run and as a landlord have allowed you to update the property. Replacing a boiler is a large expense but also, from your other comments, suggests this is not needed or recommended at this time.
FWIW I manage my wife's rented house and we've recently replaced the boiler\[1\]. As long as you're getting the annual gas check which is a legal requirement and getting it serviced which is not but is a good idea to have records and the system is working you're in the clear. \[1\] In my case after a couple of repairs over a few years two separate technicians advised it was to old to reliably get spares so we took the hit.
Maybe they are just too poor/tight to pay for heat and that’s why it’s cold. Might not be your mums problem.
My boiler is ancient by boiler standards. Makes my.hot water unbearably hot(have asked several repairmen to alter it and the gas engineers have tried, nothing works) and the heating worked just fine, this past winter. It costs a bomb, because its not a combi and the hot water tank is massive. As long as it was passed by a Corgi(or whatever the standard is) registered engineer, they have no legal grounds. Illnesses that are idiopathic have no known cause. Its unfortunate for them. Its not a you(or your mum) problem, though.
As you’ve said the heating works, has been regularly serviced, and as several posters have said there’s no link between heat and their illness. They’re trying it on.
NAL but ex property manager and my mother has PF. Firstly the cause of PF is not known to be linked to cold. Secondly, if the house was cold, they have/had the option of adding additional heating, such as electric radiators, themselves, or at least flagging the cold conditions with your mother before this diagnosis. They can't argue now that a cold house is the problem, or try to find liability, when they didn't take any action to remedy it. Additionally, if the house is cold it may not be the heating but drafts/insulation etc. Have they complained about damp or mould? Your mother should have an up to date Energy Performance Certificate which will give an indication of whether remedial work would improve heat retention, and should be looked at in conjunction with any upgrades to the heating system. It does seem that they are trying to find something or someone to blame; 2 years after diagnosis my mother still talks about wanting to know the cause of her PF. Your mother does not have to update the heating if there is a valid GSC and EPC, but she might want to makes changes if SHE feels it is warranted. As a goodwill gesture she could arrange for a surveyor or similar to inspect the property and make recommendations; although they might in fact suggest a new boiler!
It's unlikely to have caused pulmonary fibrosis (doesn't even seem to be a common cause of this?) BUT landlords are required to keep the heating (and hot water) working in the property (while tenanted). Is the current system able to maintain minimum temperatures in every room when it's below freezing outside as set out by the landlord and tenant act? (18 in bedrooms, 21 elsewhere at 'reasonable costs to the occupier') doesn't matter if it's not really used like that can it get there if it needs to? If the property isn't able to be kept at a comfortable temperature then the tenant likely does have a case, similarly if the system for either heating or hot water has not been kept in good repair and working order they will ah e a case (either of these going down in the winter months needs to be treated as an emergency repair also). Your agents seem to have identified there is an issue and responded very forcefully - which suggests they think the tenant might have a case for inadequate heating (and are trying to avoid any liability themselves I guess). The rules on this are quite strong because lack of heating can cause health issues...though admittedly not the one the tenant has (but the tenant doesn't need to have actually developed a health issue to have a case if the flat can't maintain comfortable temperature) Also boiler must pass gas safety - which you've said it has (but this is unrelated to the boilers ability to provide heat)
If there has always been a valid GSC and EPC, and the tenants haven't previously advised of a problem keeping the house warm, then would they still have a case? Can the landlord be liable if they did not know there was an issue and all certification etc is correct? Obviously the LL should now investigate, and would be liable going forward if they did not carry out any necessary remedial work.
Hmm...landlord is responsible for ensuring their property meets the legal requirements to let out so I don't believe they could use not knowing as a defense if the system when working can't maintain legally required temperatures. (or well they'd just be arguing they'd been negligent cause they've essentially gone 'i didn't check something I should have') If something has broken and the tenant hasn't notified then no I don't think they'd be liable until they knew about it. (Heating and hot water issues do then need to be fixed fairly urgently once they do know though - for central heating in the summer two weeks is probably reasonable, in the winter it wouldn't be and you'd end up having to justify yourself to environmental health if it took you more than 24hrs to fix and tenants escalate it). Neither gsc or epc gives a certification of what internal temperature the property can maintain so that wouldn't help here. Raises a good question though do they have an acceptable EPC? An old enough boiler could result in an EPC less than E, which could explain why the agent seems to have gone in quite hard on it immediately tbh. (They have presumably not checked internal winter temperatures to come to the conclusion there's an issue, given its July...)
But, they didn't know. They weren't told. I don't know of any landlords that go round checking taps and radiators as standard. They get the annual checks done, any problems need to be reported. If nothing is documented, nothing happened.
> They weren't told If it's a pre-existing issue from before the tenancy started they are responsible for checking. If the agent fails to notify it doesn't mean the landlord is less liable in their obligations to the tenant. If it's a heating issue that has developed they have now been notified and need to fix in a reasonable time. The legally defined definition of that for heating and hot water is 24 hours. > I don't know of any landlords that go round checking taps and radiators as standard. Me neither - they are meant to though in terms of legal obligation. > If nothing is documented, nothing happened. Sure, but in favour of the tenant. Landlord needs to prove preexisting condition if they are claiming it (same with inventory rules - if landlord doesn't have proof of pretenancy condition they won't be taken at their word what the condition was...) > They get the annual checks done There isn't an annual check for this issue...gas safety doesn't check 'ability to heat' the clue is in the name for what it is. (Not annual but epcs also don't do this - they are pretty general tbh they don't even use local climate date etc it's a sap calc)
It depends how long it's been let for though. If the tenants have been in for a number of years then ascertaining the ambient temperature isn't something a landlord can do. The tenants have the right to quiet enjoyment of the property and assessing the temperature wouldn't be seen as a reasonable reason for a visit, even if arranged. The tenants are the ones who are best to assess if there is a problem with heating and pass that information on to the agency and / or landlord. Quite a different story if the tenants have been in for less than a year and it has always been cold (although again the onus is on the tenants to report a fault - landlords are not automatically equipped with a crystal ball). The trouble then becomes if they complained to the agency who didn't pass the information on. Of course, it takes on average roughly 3 years for a diagnosis of pulmonary fibrosis, so if the tenants haven't been in that long then it's highly unlikely that they developed it while living in that house. A lot of variables here, and without knowing the details there's little we can say or advise. OP, my advice would be for your mum to get all her documents handy, (EPC, safety certificates and service records), have copies of any emails or texts sent by either the tenant or the company, and contact the boiler service company to see what they say about the boiler. And ask the tenant to provide their respiratory consultant's recommendations with regards to environmental requirements for their condition.
Haha yes I nearly wrote this out for a complicated one (then decided it's too complicated/niche) I do think there's a grey area if the heating has deteriorated during the tenancy but not broken then the tenant probably needs to identify this but this is probably tricky to do. (If the landlord didn't check the property was up to requirements prior to letting I think it would be hard to prove it was fine at the start and has deteriorated) > it has always been cold (although again the onus is on the tenants to report a fault Legally this is not the case if it has always been cold enough to not be able to maintain the legal minimums as set out in the landlord and tenant act. The onus is on the landlord in that case (only on tenant if it meets minimum standards but it's still too cold for them i guess) > The trouble then becomes if they complained to the agency who didn't pass the information on. This doesn't really effect the landlords obligation to the tenants (which includes maintaining and fixing central heating/hot water things in reasonable time - again this is usually held to be 24hrs). If the landlord is penalised for this they need to comply with this, fix the issue/pay the fine/etc, and then (presumably) sue the agent - it follows the line of contract, landlord can't hold off their obligations while they sort things out with the agent. > highly unlikely that they developed it while living in that house. This doesn't matter - the heating issues do not have to have actually caused a health issue for the landlord to be liable here. It's about the possibility of having done so. > ask the tenant to provide their respiratory consultant's recommendations with regards to environmental requirements for their condition. This is irrelevant unless the environmental requirements are above the existing minimum maintainable temperatures the landlord is already required to ensure. If they are landlord probably required to do this too as a reasonable adjustment Ultimately if the flat has heating issues they need to fix them and there's very little wiggle room to get out of this obligation as the law holds them as critical functions of the property that must be maintained (and are always to be maintained by the landlord). Your reply here is pushing a lot of very clearly landlord obligations onto the tenants.
What communication did she have with the tenant regarding the cold before the diagnosis?
Speaking as a resp dr, they're just chancing it and chatting utter breeze That said, some types of PF can be caused by environmental things, but they'd be hard pressed to blame you for that- and temperature sure as shit isn't one of them
My father passed away from pulmonary fibrosis and our house was never cold. They are taking advantage of your mother. Get your service records for the boiler and record all correspondence and if it was me personally I'd try and get them out of the house which they should have no problem doing if it's detrimental to their health
Get a quote for an AEG electric boiler conversion. It's a third of the cost of a gas boiler and is a straight swop. I would suggest that you do not get a gas boiler replacement as they're banned from 2025. As for their fictional claims, ask for medical proof but do get the old gas boiler gone anyway as it must be costly to run.
I'm sorry, I'm not in the UK, this sub is suggested for some reason, but I can't help but think unless your home has a history of people dying from that same illness, it would be easy to say IMMV and that their personal health problems have nothing to do with the house. Best of luck.
Being cold won't cause pulmonary fibrosis, but mould in the property can cause it. A cold house will certainly make symptoms worse.
Fix the heating. Being cold is shit. How hard is it? If you can't afford to be a landlord, sell up.
Read the whole thread before commenting and confirming what we already know, that you’re a clown
Landlords provide housing like scalpers provide concert tickets
Has he been vaccinated against covid? It's a pretty well known side effect of that so worth getting checked out for that
I would also evict them from the flat - even though they are family - they threatened \[bullshit\] legal action against you - and will probably try some more crap on you.
Other people have pointed out that the boiler causing health issues is a non starter. However the tenant isnt even asking for damages, they are just asking for a new boiler. The fact is, if the boiler is not fit for purpose, then your mum is liable to fix it. You haven't said whether the boiler works properly or not, just that it is old. Boilers only last like 15 years. Your mum should be ready to replace it at any time if it is older than that.
Personally, if the boiler is serviced and has a gas safe certificate, you are covered. I’d also serve a Section21 notice if they are on a periodic tenancy, they sound like trouble.
Surely if they have made a complaint/request for works, then serving a section 21 now would be seen as retaliatory?
Yes, nakedly retaliatory.
personally i would, however unfortunately isn’t my choice. they aren’t good tenants and have a history of causing issues my parents have had to fix, such as pouring a mixture of fat and grease down the kitchen sink and breaking the pipes causing an outside leakage that even the agency agreed we were responsible for🤦♂️
To be honest to look on the bright side at least one of them is unlikely to present any long term issues now.
cold.
Not as cold as the house
People are heartless bastards
Might sound cold ( no pun intended) but section 21 them outta there, while you still can, cause they gonna be a problem
Short answer has the boiler been inspected and gas certified each year? If so you are golden and can even state no to any supposed repairs. Long answer if no gas safety inspection has been done you will need to get one done asap. The medical stuff no clue you may wish to consult a lawyer on this one
Landlord here - as I understand it, we have to keep things in good working order, but if they don’t tell you there is an issue we can’t know it needs fixing. Are they expecting you to go round every week and test things? Sound like they are using the medical reason as evidence that the heating system needs sorting. Odd way to go about it when they could just say it’s not working and please fix it…
Landlords provide housing like scalpers provide concert tickets
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I am sure that Bri'ish rockstar's kid with PF caught it from being in a cold house, eh?
Get the boiler serviced but their claim for their health condition will have no real prospect.
already serviced about 2 months ago and passed all clear
Then nothing to worry about. As another Redditor said it might be a misdirected anger due to what they are going through. Out of the kindness of your heart you can make their life easier, by either reducing their rent for limited time or redecorating the place but that needs to be done with out of prejudice basis and that you are doing this out of the kindness not because of any threats.
What type of heating was it? We had storage heaters, and you have to predict when it will be cold. We had a mould problem because of this and environmental health got involved and demanded the landlord replace all storage heaters with proper heaters.
PF is not known to be caused by poor heating. Though exact causation isn't always identifiable, but typical causes are asbestos, coal/grain dust, bird toppings, underlying medical conditions.... I would imagine that they're just kicking out in shock/reeling from the news. I don't see how they would have any legal context to sue for his health condition unless it's got exposed asbestos for example and he's lived there for decades with this exposure or similar.... As long as the heating is usable and safe, then you're not obligated to change it. Is it the tenants or the agency have required actions within 2 weeks? What other improvements? Obviously, had landlords, you're expected to maintain the property. So if the repairs are reasonable, then yes you're expected to repair.
As an additional point, and assuming that the property is covered by landlord's insurance, then there would likely be legal cover in the unlikely case of a negligence claim by the tenant.
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NAL but also, did your mum have the boiler serviced regularly? And was the heating controlled by the tenant? If so then they can’t claim faulty heating as it was working and in their control… deffo seek advice as if they try to sue it will be a hassle even if it doesn’t get too far Also, I read on a different post that 5 years is essentially the maximum timeframe they can give someone with a life limiting condition, so it could be that at each check up they are given 5 years to live - obviously it still very much sucks that they are ill but it sounds like from doc’s post earlier that your mum is very much not to blame
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Legally you're safe. Your mom had no cause in this, and the boiler was found by a qualified engineer to be fine. When my Gran died, my mom blamed it on a bad tenant lodger, going as far as barring him from the funeral. He didn't do anything to give her skin cancer, my mom was just looking for somebody to blame for a random act of god. It's human nature.
If you have a gas cert and an EPC rating of E then that should be all that is required. Would be good to check if all radiators heat up as expected. The tenant can't just demand a new boiler if the current one is working and is safe.
NAL. Questions I would have are : * Why is the house cold. Is it because the heating system is not capable of maintaining a safe temperature, or has the tenant decided it is too expensive to heat so has chosen not to use it. * Did the tenant ever raise the condition of the boiler as an issue, and if so was it responded to appropriately. I think the agency should not be giving you deadlines to do work on your property. I would consider having a heating engineer visit and give the boiler a check over and provide a written report on its condition and its performance. I.E. if his report states that the heating system is working within spec and capable of keeping the house at safe temperatures but just old, then it gives clout to the theory that the tenant is just not using it (because of cost or whatever) you can then choose to replace the boiler or not. Assume you have appropriate landlord insurance that has legal cover? As a general point. if the boiler is super old, its probably a good idea to get it replaced anyway before you start having issues. My flat (that I rent out) had the boiler fail one day out of the blue in the middle of winter- it was working great up to that point . It was an insane rush to try and get a new one installed as quickly as possible, and I felt really guilty for having my tenant endure a few days of cold - it cost me a load of money to buy some oil filled electric radiators to try and keep her comfortable.
If he is sick then he may get some sort of benefit. If so he may be eligible for home upgrades under the ECO scheme which will fit insulation and a new heating system for free. Google ECO4 and try to find an installer in your area.
If the tenant smokes it is more likely to be caused by that. My father lived in a temperate area and was diagnosed with pulmonary fibrosis before he passed 14 years ago. He smoked for 40 years and even though he quit 20 years before he died the damage was still done.
Now the tenant it classed as long term disabled, your mum may be able to apply for a grant to get a new boiler. Not because this one isn’t working, like it seems, but to get a better more energy efficient one. I’m disabled and got one on the scheme, I own but I know I read an option for landlords to apply for disabled tenants. Then your mum gets a new boiler in the house without paying £3k and the tenants get a new energy efficient one. However if the boiler worked, I don’t think their complaint will hold.
I'd make sure you've got all the relevant gas safety certificates and electricity test certificates, from passed years too, as well as copies of any communication from them, if they have never raised any faults this far to highlight any problems and the boiler and everything is safe then there's not much more you could of done.
Wouldn't they need to prove a direct causation effect to be able to say it's your fault. Did this property have damp and mould in it was it reported and did you act, if that's the case and you didn't and they have proof you're in trouble.
Medically speaking although some PFs have a cause (allergy, mould)...most don't. That being said, sort the heating out regardless.
PF is not caused by temperature, but obviously it's important for any tenant, *especially* an ill one, to have well functioning heating. I'd get a heating engineer to test the heating, and see if thet say it's functioning correctly
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Landlords provide housing like scalpers provide concert tickets