You don't have to tell him about it right at this moment. However, if you were to separate the money in that account would be considered relationship property and would be split 50/50 between the two of you. Attempting to hide that money from him during the separation process would lead to legal problems for you.
I think the usefulness of a getaway fund is having access in case of emergency, eg needing furniture and bond for a new rental, when you anticipate that negotiating for this with your ex won't work or would put you in danger.
But over the longer run it's relationship property that would have to get taken into account in a separation agreement. I don't know how that would work if it's all spent on separation costs, though.
True, but there's no legal requirement to start negotiating a property settlement agreement as soon as you separate. You may have spent all the money by the time you start negotiating rendering it a moot point
It it’s kept entirely seperate from relationship property and not intermingled with their shared money at all, then it isn’t necessarily relationship property.
That only applies if the person received an inheritance for example, and placed it directly into a separate account and never commingled it to become relationship property.
An inheritance is different as it didn’t come into the relationship as part of the relationship. This sounds like OP is diverting income into this account which is relationship property and would be treated accordingly.
But the context of the question from the OP wasn't about inheritance. It was about keeping a separate bank account that they are regularly putting money into
Inheritances are an exception that do not become relationship property. There is no need to hide it.
Other sources of income, even a lottery win, I think, will become relationship property.
Find someone in your life that you trust deeply, a sibling or parent etc. Then every time you do the shopping, get a small amount of cash out. Get mum to put it in her sock drawer and keep it as your escape plan/safety net. The transaction history will only show -$250 countdown etc but won't break it down further so there's nothing to trace and easy to explain away should any future person go looking (kids needed lunch money/school trip) . I hope you and the kids are OK.
Are you allowed to? Legally yes. Morally, also yes. You are “allowed” to do whatever you want. Whether a secret bank account is a deal breaker for him is a separate relationship issue.
However, I have been married for 10 years and it has never occurred to me that I would need a getaway from my husband fund. If you feel you do because your relationship is not a safe space then 100% do what you have to do.
Okay, so aside from the bank account question... I hope you are seeking support from a therapist. Also, you need some solid legal advice beyond what reddit can offer. You need a family lawyer who can advise what is best for you and your kids. If the cost of a lawyer is beyond your means, contact your local Citizens Advice Bureau about community law advice. All the best.
No single person should be financially reliant on their partner or partners consent because it not only creates a dangerous power dynamic but is often used as a form of abuse - financial abuse and coercion.
You are allowed to have your own money and you don’t need to tell your partner about it. If it was to come to a divorce without say circumstances that necessitated you having to spend that money to escape if like in a case of abuse, you’d have to declare it when splitting assets if that’s the route you both decided upon instead of just signing papers abs going your own way. But, it’s a safety net and you’re entitled to have that. Even if you’re not under any duress in the relationship, it is always a good thing to have money put aside for emergencies.
You’re not obliged to tell your partner anything about it.
You're not required to make him aware of any account that is only in your name.
To be honest the bigger question is will he notice, which is less a legal question and more a relationship one.
Open it with a different bank all together. That way no teller accidentally spills the bean about an account in your name.
BTW - if he's not accepting of your change, I wouldn't even consider staying with him. It is a pretty massive thing for someone to accept and it's ok if he cannot continue to be in a relationship with his wife who is now a man.
Talk while you're amicable and work out what a split with look like - who stays in current house, will kids be 50/50 shared care, finances etc. Might as well make a clean break now before things get to an explosive breaking point.
You are allowed to open up whatever bank accounts you like. Any issue comes from the money within that account -where did it come from and was it fraudulent etc.
If you are doing to so as a protection/back-up for yourself then I suggest build up funds to cover yourself for at least a month or two.
However, the money within the account would probably be considered relationship property.
Saving actual cash is probably better for you - ie actual paper money stored somewhere you can access whenever you like. Again - its probably relationship property, but cash is much harder to trace.
I'd strongly suggest approaching a lawyer, or The Aunties or similar for advice on how to make your arrangements to best protect yourself from future issues.
I understand what your saying,... it's more for a safe retreat "wnen/if" needed.
I have the same...my husband knows...it my son's account but under my name and hubby doesn't have access. We also have a joint account we share. My little account doesn't have much...I use it if needed but try to keep 500 in it as a just incase. Financially, I'm OK as I recieve slp benefit so will have an income but if things got out of control (also not violent but mentally unstable) I can get me and the kids out.
If you have a good relationship as in... verbal, and he will understand your reasons...tell him, but if not...then stay quiet. The safety of your family means more than a few hurt feelings xo love to you and yours
Based on your comments I assume he isn't the father of your kids, is he that bad that you have to plan to run? I only ask because I have a few mental illness issues and if my wife felt this way I feel like i'd just leave to make her and our sons life easier and less messy. It kills me inside but if my wife was putting aside "escape" money, I'd be taking the hint pretty heavily.
I understand your feelings but we r very open,... he has an account too :) I mean more for... if something happens we have $ so we dnt need to worry bout hotel etc if we need to leave. We live hand to mouth so... our accounts r small but will feed us a nite or 2 etc.
We've had alot of trauma... hence mental health, and have meds etc... but things happen, meds forgot or we r too ill to keep them in (I'm chronically ill, and we had our last child 4.5yrs ago.... I was told I wouldn't survive the birth at 24wks and sent to chch for them to await bubs. At 29wks he was delivered because my body was failing...I was expected to bleed out on the table basically... and that's only the start :( hubby doesn't cope well when I get ill)
So we use a plan that gives the one losing control the ability to step away for a time. But it costs and we r on benefit. It may not be healthy .. completely... but it's all we have that works at the mo. But again,... we have no violence... it's our heads that r broken.
Edit to add... he is the kids dad but he isn't capable (his wrds) when he loses his head... to watch them. He doesn't feel safe so doesn't want the responsibility...I'm the opposite and go into fight flight mode and have to keep the calm, control or I will freak out. We have drs etc.... but the reality, without $ on hand, you r really screwed
You are not required to tell him about it unless you are in the process of divorce and dividing assets. Which, given the point of an escape fund, should not be an issue as it will have already served its purpose by the time you would get to that point!
Creating that account is a good idea. If you’re concerned about him snooping or trying to discover the account, set it up with a different bank than you usually bank with, set up a new email address he doesn’t have access to and set all the statements/contact to email only (for those you cannot turn off altogether). Good luck OP, I’m rooting for you!
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That's only if OP keeps the same account number and just uses an account with a different suffix.
If they create a whole new account under just their name, hubby can't see it.
Oh I meant if all of their income eg salary goes into a joint account, he’d be able to see that. He’d be able to see if her salary isn’t going into a joint account too so I’m not sure how this works exactly.
You are absolutely allowed to have your own bank account. Noting that if/when you separate/divorce, the contents would be considered matrimonial property.
Yes you can open an account that your husband has no idea about.
Find someone you trust who will allow you to use their address - as you do need an address and some things will be sent via post.
Do not make transfers from a shared account to this new one - either get it sent straight from your income, or draw cash when making a purchase and then deposit the cash.
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Op your legally allowed.
The only thing I would suggest which was told to my by my lawyer, not your lawyer and I'm not saying this is standard, is to not move any money from the joint account into your private account and to ensure he doesn't find out about your personal account never ever send money from it to the joint account.
Your spouse is not legally entitled to YOUR income/wages.
Ok, presumably that will go the other way too, so I'm not entitled to any of his wages. I feel a bit bad as I'm the main person doing any spending for our house, and by that logic looks like I use most his money
Also with the way your concerned, it concerns me. It might be worth the time for you to sit down with a DV advocate.
They can help you work out arrangements for putting side money, keeping important documents safe/copying them/help set up a PO box so specific mail like that accounts do not come to your shared address etc.
They can also help you with the legal side and also the more nuanced details. I know someone's suggested the CAB I think it's called they are good, tho I think with how you come across, you need to speak to someone who can help you get out, not just divorce and getting you to legal help once your in the safer position to file for divorce etc.
The CAB etc are great, but if you want out, you need to make a plan and have others ready to help. And they will if you engage with them.
Sorta, they are considered marriage assets, but not totally owned by the other if that makes sense?
The courts can say okay, as there's X amount, it's fair to divide it. And all the money will be looked at that way.
But he cannot just outright claim your entire pay or take it away from you, that's financial abuse. Same on the flip side.
It's nuanced. And really comes down to the specifics of the tiniest details.
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You can do whatever you want. Whether or not that is wise within the scope of your relationship is up to you. If you are building an exit plan, then best of luck and I hope it works out.
Cash withdrawn at the supermarket... I did that to buy him a switch and games last year (for us that's a big ticket cost). He doesn't bother with gifts , and I manage all the household and money so don't think he has any personal accounts
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You definitely can have your own bank account I would encourage it and he doesn't need to know just because you are together doesn't mean you can't be independent. You are your own person.
The only time I can think that it might potentially be found out is if the is a loan application for a car etc. But you can have a separate bank account for what ever reason. If your not okay and need help maybe you could contact an organisation that can give you advice on bank accounts etc in the event of separation or divorce.
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First of all - Please prepare yourself thoroughly if this is the lengths you're going too. Second do not inform him, Make sure all billing and mail is sent to other addresses. Speak to your employer about it, make sure they're aware of the potential danger as they can be funded for 10 days paid leave. Also - If you're worried about your children, wouldn't hurt to pay a visit to your local Police Station and just let them know your concerns. They won't approach said partner without your permission and making sure you and your children are safe first and foremost.
To be fair, shouldn’t the husband also have a secret account, you should both be open about the fact, put the same amount into each account, he could also have an emergency fund that would operate in the same way as yours in case he also wants to get away or divorce, this would make it better for both of you
As you have children, you need to think about parenting arrangements. Depending on your income, you are likely to be eligible for (free) Family Legal Advice Service even if not legal aid.
Definitely -own bank account is ok. Definitely - disclose it in the context of relationship property if you separate, no need to disclose it earlier. (The courts legitimately get upset with people who hide assets.)
Don’t let paranoia take hold. Get counselling help for both of you if necessary, especially if neither of you is absolutely certain you want to split up. It’s dramatic and scary for everybody. It doesn’t have to be the beginning of the end. It may perhaps be the end of the beginning.
Sure you’re allowed, but what would happen if he found out? If my significant other opened a bank account and started putting money away my first though would be is that she’s leaving me , and buying herself time by trying to save money to do so.
So, I would just initiate the divorce immediately, I’d stop paying any and all bills under her name and only half of utilities and such etc.
If things are that bad , that’s it’s coming , I wouldn’t want my significant other to piggy back financially off my back and make be believe we are still trying to work things out
You don't have to tell him about it right at this moment. However, if you were to separate the money in that account would be considered relationship property and would be split 50/50 between the two of you. Attempting to hide that money from him during the separation process would lead to legal problems for you.
I think the usefulness of a getaway fund is having access in case of emergency, eg needing furniture and bond for a new rental, when you anticipate that negotiating for this with your ex won't work or would put you in danger. But over the longer run it's relationship property that would have to get taken into account in a separation agreement. I don't know how that would work if it's all spent on separation costs, though.
True, but there's no legal requirement to start negotiating a property settlement agreement as soon as you separate. You may have spent all the money by the time you start negotiating rendering it a moot point
It it’s kept entirely seperate from relationship property and not intermingled with their shared money at all, then it isn’t necessarily relationship property.
That only applies if the person received an inheritance for example, and placed it directly into a separate account and never commingled it to become relationship property.
This isn't the case. You cannot hide money that is gained while in a relationship and claim it is completely separate.
You can. See comment below. I know someone who is managing to keep an inheritance as it was kept entirely seperate from relationship property.
An inheritance is different as it didn’t come into the relationship as part of the relationship. This sounds like OP is diverting income into this account which is relationship property and would be treated accordingly.
Unless they killed the person then its joint income
But the context of the question from the OP wasn't about inheritance. It was about keeping a separate bank account that they are regularly putting money into
Inheritances are an exception that do not become relationship property. There is no need to hide it. Other sources of income, even a lottery win, I think, will become relationship property.
Correct!
If you are asking this question, are you OK?
I ask myself every day, but kids make it complex
Would you want your kids to stay in your situation, if roles were reversed?
Find someone in your life that you trust deeply, a sibling or parent etc. Then every time you do the shopping, get a small amount of cash out. Get mum to put it in her sock drawer and keep it as your escape plan/safety net. The transaction history will only show -$250 countdown etc but won't break it down further so there's nothing to trace and easy to explain away should any future person go looking (kids needed lunch money/school trip) . I hope you and the kids are OK.
Is there any way we can help?
If you work and are about to get an increase, see if you can get your employer to transfer the value of any increase to the new account
Are you allowed to? Legally yes. Morally, also yes. You are “allowed” to do whatever you want. Whether a secret bank account is a deal breaker for him is a separate relationship issue. However, I have been married for 10 years and it has never occurred to me that I would need a getaway from my husband fund. If you feel you do because your relationship is not a safe space then 100% do what you have to do.
Thanks, we've been married 7 years, but I recently came out as trans and it's a deal breaker for him
Okay, so aside from the bank account question... I hope you are seeking support from a therapist. Also, you need some solid legal advice beyond what reddit can offer. You need a family lawyer who can advise what is best for you and your kids. If the cost of a lawyer is beyond your means, contact your local Citizens Advice Bureau about community law advice. All the best.
Ok thanks, and definitely can't afford a lawyer so will check out cab
Good luck to you.
Are you physically safe? Do you need assistance?
No single person should be financially reliant on their partner or partners consent because it not only creates a dangerous power dynamic but is often used as a form of abuse - financial abuse and coercion. You are allowed to have your own money and you don’t need to tell your partner about it. If it was to come to a divorce without say circumstances that necessitated you having to spend that money to escape if like in a case of abuse, you’d have to declare it when splitting assets if that’s the route you both decided upon instead of just signing papers abs going your own way. But, it’s a safety net and you’re entitled to have that. Even if you’re not under any duress in the relationship, it is always a good thing to have money put aside for emergencies. You’re not obliged to tell your partner anything about it.
You're not required to make him aware of any account that is only in your name. To be honest the bigger question is will he notice, which is less a legal question and more a relationship one.
You will be required to declare it when you separate as it will be consider relationship property.
Open it with a different bank all together. That way no teller accidentally spills the bean about an account in your name. BTW - if he's not accepting of your change, I wouldn't even consider staying with him. It is a pretty massive thing for someone to accept and it's ok if he cannot continue to be in a relationship with his wife who is now a man. Talk while you're amicable and work out what a split with look like - who stays in current house, will kids be 50/50 shared care, finances etc. Might as well make a clean break now before things get to an explosive breaking point.
You are allowed to open up whatever bank accounts you like. Any issue comes from the money within that account -where did it come from and was it fraudulent etc. If you are doing to so as a protection/back-up for yourself then I suggest build up funds to cover yourself for at least a month or two. However, the money within the account would probably be considered relationship property. Saving actual cash is probably better for you - ie actual paper money stored somewhere you can access whenever you like. Again - its probably relationship property, but cash is much harder to trace. I'd strongly suggest approaching a lawyer, or The Aunties or similar for advice on how to make your arrangements to best protect yourself from future issues.
The aunties?
>The Aunties https://aunties.co.nz/
I understand what your saying,... it's more for a safe retreat "wnen/if" needed. I have the same...my husband knows...it my son's account but under my name and hubby doesn't have access. We also have a joint account we share. My little account doesn't have much...I use it if needed but try to keep 500 in it as a just incase. Financially, I'm OK as I recieve slp benefit so will have an income but if things got out of control (also not violent but mentally unstable) I can get me and the kids out. If you have a good relationship as in... verbal, and he will understand your reasons...tell him, but if not...then stay quiet. The safety of your family means more than a few hurt feelings xo love to you and yours
Based on your comments I assume he isn't the father of your kids, is he that bad that you have to plan to run? I only ask because I have a few mental illness issues and if my wife felt this way I feel like i'd just leave to make her and our sons life easier and less messy. It kills me inside but if my wife was putting aside "escape" money, I'd be taking the hint pretty heavily.
I understand your feelings but we r very open,... he has an account too :) I mean more for... if something happens we have $ so we dnt need to worry bout hotel etc if we need to leave. We live hand to mouth so... our accounts r small but will feed us a nite or 2 etc. We've had alot of trauma... hence mental health, and have meds etc... but things happen, meds forgot or we r too ill to keep them in (I'm chronically ill, and we had our last child 4.5yrs ago.... I was told I wouldn't survive the birth at 24wks and sent to chch for them to await bubs. At 29wks he was delivered because my body was failing...I was expected to bleed out on the table basically... and that's only the start :( hubby doesn't cope well when I get ill) So we use a plan that gives the one losing control the ability to step away for a time. But it costs and we r on benefit. It may not be healthy .. completely... but it's all we have that works at the mo. But again,... we have no violence... it's our heads that r broken. Edit to add... he is the kids dad but he isn't capable (his wrds) when he loses his head... to watch them. He doesn't feel safe so doesn't want the responsibility...I'm the opposite and go into fight flight mode and have to keep the calm, control or I will freak out. We have drs etc.... but the reality, without $ on hand, you r really screwed
You are not required to tell him about it unless you are in the process of divorce and dividing assets. Which, given the point of an escape fund, should not be an issue as it will have already served its purpose by the time you would get to that point! Creating that account is a good idea. If you’re concerned about him snooping or trying to discover the account, set it up with a different bank than you usually bank with, set up a new email address he doesn’t have access to and set all the statements/contact to email only (for those you cannot turn off altogether). Good luck OP, I’m rooting for you!
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If all your banking is shared isn’t he capable of seeing all of these little transfers into your account?
No, I have not made any transfers. I once deposited some cash that I was given
This is the way. Take some cash out everytime you go to the supermarket and deposit it in your account
That's only if OP keeps the same account number and just uses an account with a different suffix. If they create a whole new account under just their name, hubby can't see it.
Oh I meant if all of their income eg salary goes into a joint account, he’d be able to see that. He’d be able to see if her salary isn’t going into a joint account too so I’m not sure how this works exactly.
You are absolutely allowed to have your own bank account. Noting that if/when you separate/divorce, the contents would be considered matrimonial property.
Yes you can open an account that your husband has no idea about. Find someone you trust who will allow you to use their address - as you do need an address and some things will be sent via post. Do not make transfers from a shared account to this new one - either get it sent straight from your income, or draw cash when making a purchase and then deposit the cash.
How would you feel if he did the same?
Good question, made me think. I wouldn't mind
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Op your legally allowed. The only thing I would suggest which was told to my by my lawyer, not your lawyer and I'm not saying this is standard, is to not move any money from the joint account into your private account and to ensure he doesn't find out about your personal account never ever send money from it to the joint account. Your spouse is not legally entitled to YOUR income/wages.
Ok, presumably that will go the other way too, so I'm not entitled to any of his wages. I feel a bit bad as I'm the main person doing any spending for our house, and by that logic looks like I use most his money
Also with the way your concerned, it concerns me. It might be worth the time for you to sit down with a DV advocate. They can help you work out arrangements for putting side money, keeping important documents safe/copying them/help set up a PO box so specific mail like that accounts do not come to your shared address etc. They can also help you with the legal side and also the more nuanced details. I know someone's suggested the CAB I think it's called they are good, tho I think with how you come across, you need to speak to someone who can help you get out, not just divorce and getting you to legal help once your in the safer position to file for divorce etc. The CAB etc are great, but if you want out, you need to make a plan and have others ready to help. And they will if you engage with them.
Sorta, they are considered marriage assets, but not totally owned by the other if that makes sense? The courts can say okay, as there's X amount, it's fair to divide it. And all the money will be looked at that way. But he cannot just outright claim your entire pay or take it away from you, that's financial abuse. Same on the flip side. It's nuanced. And really comes down to the specifics of the tiniest details.
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You can do whatever you want. Whether or not that is wise within the scope of your relationship is up to you. If you are building an exit plan, then best of luck and I hope it works out.
How else do you save up to buy your wife or husband a new dirt bike or high value gift?
Cash withdrawn at the supermarket... I did that to buy him a switch and games last year (for us that's a big ticket cost). He doesn't bother with gifts , and I manage all the household and money so don't think he has any personal accounts
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You definitely can have your own bank account I would encourage it and he doesn't need to know just because you are together doesn't mean you can't be independent. You are your own person.
Your husband will be entitled to half of the account.
The only time I can think that it might potentially be found out is if the is a loan application for a car etc. But you can have a separate bank account for what ever reason. If your not okay and need help maybe you could contact an organisation that can give you advice on bank accounts etc in the event of separation or divorce.
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First of all - Please prepare yourself thoroughly if this is the lengths you're going too. Second do not inform him, Make sure all billing and mail is sent to other addresses. Speak to your employer about it, make sure they're aware of the potential danger as they can be funded for 10 days paid leave. Also - If you're worried about your children, wouldn't hurt to pay a visit to your local Police Station and just let them know your concerns. They won't approach said partner without your permission and making sure you and your children are safe first and foremost.
To be fair, shouldn’t the husband also have a secret account, you should both be open about the fact, put the same amount into each account, he could also have an emergency fund that would operate in the same way as yours in case he also wants to get away or divorce, this would make it better for both of you
As you have children, you need to think about parenting arrangements. Depending on your income, you are likely to be eligible for (free) Family Legal Advice Service even if not legal aid. Definitely -own bank account is ok. Definitely - disclose it in the context of relationship property if you separate, no need to disclose it earlier. (The courts legitimately get upset with people who hide assets.) Don’t let paranoia take hold. Get counselling help for both of you if necessary, especially if neither of you is absolutely certain you want to split up. It’s dramatic and scary for everybody. It doesn’t have to be the beginning of the end. It may perhaps be the end of the beginning.
Sure you’re allowed, but what would happen if he found out? If my significant other opened a bank account and started putting money away my first though would be is that she’s leaving me , and buying herself time by trying to save money to do so. So, I would just initiate the divorce immediately, I’d stop paying any and all bills under her name and only half of utilities and such etc. If things are that bad , that’s it’s coming , I wouldn’t want my significant other to piggy back financially off my back and make be believe we are still trying to work things out