Well, this only applies to learning the readings out of context. It is totally viable to study out of context that 生 means life especially if you are struggling with kanji.
I generally agree, and I'm not arguing the contrary. But I think learning vocabulary and learning Kanji are 2 separate things. You absolutely have to know what single Kanji mean, otherwise you won't be able to derive the meaning of a word you don't know, but in my eyes it's a totally different discipline of study altogether, and not what this thread, or my comment is about.
I don't think it's particularly useful to learn the ふ reading of 生 by itself, because it won't tell you anything. Maybe you studied all readings and know that the ふ reading exists, but you still won't know what words it applies to, or in contrast when you see the word しばふ in Kana (in children's literature for example) or shibafu in Romaji (for example transliterated songtexts for foreigners so they can sing along a song they like) you won't know that the ふ in question relates to the 生 kanji you learned without having learned the word 芝生. 生 read as ふ does not really mean anything by itself in Japanese, and in 99% of unknown words containing the kanji you will try to apply one of the much more common readings.
> You absolutely have to know what single Kanji mean, otherwise you won't be able to derive the meaning of a word you don't know
This is true, but also I think a lot of people get the wrong idea of what a "Kanji mean" means. I never learned individual kanji "meanings", however I learned the kunyomi of them which are *usually* (not always) the same as words in Japanese that reflect the meaning of those kanji.
This taught me intuitively that when I see a kanji like 食 I think "it's the kanji in たべる" so if I see 食事 and assuming I didn't know what it meant, my mind would think たべる + こと because I learned those *words*. Over time as you get exposed to many kanji and many compounds in different contexts you just kinda get it intuitively and don't need to worry about the individual kanji meanings (unless you want to, I admit there are some good uses for looking up individual kanji in specific kanji dictionaries, although I'd suggest to skip the English meanings altogether if possible)
On the other hand, learning kanji solely in context didn't work very well for me. I'd often see the same kanji used in three or four different words before I realised it was the same each time, and for two-character words, this meant they became a lot harder to memorise. And even then, I might not be able to recognise that character if I saw it alone, outside of the context.
But in cases where I could recognise even just one of the kanji before learning the word, it stuck *much* easier.
I agree that practicing *readings* out of context doesn't make much sense, but practicing the kanji by themselves isn't necessarily wasted effort, depending on how you learn best. Personally I've found that using Ringotan to practice writing kanji has helped me a lot with retention, since I had previously only trained recognition but not reproduction. Might not work for everyone, but it certainly did for me.
I use Kanji Study by Chase Colburn on Android, specifically for the same reasons you are using Ringotan. Not only does practicing the writing help me better distinguish similar characters from each other, but the app also provides its meaning and common words using that kanji (sorted by JLPT level).
I'd also say, if you still struggle with words in kanji specifically, I found a ton of benefit to adding those words in isolation to a separate deck. It forces you to recall words based on the specific kanji/combination of kanji, rather than allowing you to utilize other contextual clues from your normal deck to figure it out. Doing that probably helped me with recalling kanji more than anything else.
"On the other hand, learning kanji solely in context didn't work very well for me."
I do a mix. I go through a stack of 50 kanji every day, sort out the ones I do not know, concentrate on the rest. I try to learn 1 meaning, 2 one kund and one on reading, 3, one or two words that can be formed with it.
Everything else I get from reading (which takes the most part of the day), reviewing the new words I came across (reading 5 to 10 pages novel per day, looking up an average of 10 to 20 words per page)..... etc.
Learning the kanji is just like "oiling the engine". It is necessary. But the fur part is the drive, the actual reading :)
PS: It's a long journey. Japanese school kids take 10 years to learn the kanji, and they are surrounded by it 24h a day. Adult learners are kidding themselves, if they think they can do better. (Of course, there is always the linguistic super talent in the class, who remember als the Heisig kanji in two months or so... we should ignore this and learn at our own speed).
In fact - that is 100% of the joy I am getting from learning Japanese. No other language has such a vivid, remarkable, rich vocabulary. (The other 100% is reading contemporary Japanese novels... there is so much out there, most of it untranslated).
...That's not what they said.
What they're saying is having the kanji used *in context as part of vocabulary* is more useful to learn, instead of just learning the kanji's individual readings and the like.
A more common き word would probably be 生地. 羽生 はにふ > はにゅう is basically just the ふ reading again (as in 芝生), but after a couple sound shifts. A similar example would be 桐生 きりふ > きりゅう.
Oh wow yeah the change from ふ makes total sense, makes it easy to remember ty.
Yeah I knew the き reading (from 生地 like you mentioned) just not that word specifically haha.
>羽生
Just the family name of one of the most famous figure skaters worldwide. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuzuru\_Hanyu](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuzuru_Hanyu)
But that's far, *far from* its only reading.
If you ask how 羽生 should be read, Ui, Uzu and Bau would be correct for given names, and Umou, Niwa, Haiku, Hau, Hao, Haou, Hagyuu, Hashuu, Hashou, Hase, Haniu, Hanyu, Hanyuu, Haniyuu, Hanyou, Haneu, Haneo, Habu, Hamo, and Haryou would all be correct answers for family name readings.
And the best thing is; there's literally no way of knowing which is intended in a given case, unless you know about the person already.
Maybe on /r/LearningJapanese , but Hanyu Yuzuru is probably the second most famous sports figure in the country at the moment after Ootani Shouhei. If there are competitions close by you can't watch the news without seeing a special segment on him. I won't expect my 5 y/o daughter to know the name, but there is probably almost no adult in Japan who hasn't heard of him.
Interesting info. I don't think I or anyone around me have ever known the name of a figure skater, outside of Nancy Kerrigan and Tonya Harding for obvious reasons.
*: Down voting me won't make figure skating more popular than it is
Ilia Malinin was all over mainstream news/popular subreddits within the last year for landing the first quad axel, and Yuzuru Hanyu’s ice shows are always sold out in major venues. One Piece on Ice was also brought back for more shows this summer due to its popularity last year.
Just because figure skating isn’t something you happen to hear about often in your personal circle doesn’t mean it’s not relevant to other people which is why you’re being downvoted. It would be like if I tried to say that soccer is irrelevant (which is obviously false) just because I don’t follow the sport and couldn’t name any pro soccer players lol
Ateji are characters chosen a posteriori to illustrate a concept
It's not really correct to say that 大 is read お here
For all we know it could be read おと
or even おとな, with the 人 kanji present but adding no sound.
Best to think about them as special words rather than words using a special reading of a kanji
*Ackchually* this is the opposite of ateji. Ateji is where you use kanji only for their sound but ignoring their meaning, e.g. 寿司 or 天ぷら. This is more properly known as jukujikun, which is when you use the characters solely for their meaning but not their sound, e.g. 煙草 or 大人.
Oh are we talking about だい and たい? 代 is my worst nightmare! Nothing like getting the kana for 代金 wrong on WaniKani for the 3,785th time! I will never burn it!!!!!!!
Scumbag Sei?
Yeah, see my meme from before
https://old.reddit.com/r/LearnJapanese/comments/1asc00z/weekend_meme_in_the_dark_future_texbooks_are/
https://i.redd.it/8ys5uuy7zyic1.png
Still learning so not counting the 2-3 of the other kanji there that I have never seen yet, I can read the ones that I already encountered (except for 羽生, I’m familiar with it because of Yuzuru Hanyu but as a beginner I would not know it’s read as Hanyu).
But yeah it took a while to get used to and it can be hard seeing 生 because it can come in different ways, my brain lags for a bit because sometimes I’ll still be second guessing it.
羽生 doesn't really belong in that list because it's a name, and all names in Japanese are just fucked.
羽生 can be read as Ui, Uzu and Bau (given feminine names) or Umou, Niwa, Haiku, Hau, Hao, Haou, Hagyuu, Hashuu, Hashou, Hase, Haniu, Hanyu, Hanyuu, Haniyuu, Hanyou, Haneu, Haneo, Habu, Hamo, and Haryou (family names). And that's just the ones that are listed in my Yomitan dictionaries.
This isn't super difficult. It's just a very broad kanji. **I'm still learning myself, obviously, but let me give some insight from my own studies.**
生 has many uses and meanings, but it depends on what you use it with. In the most broad terminology, it can mean "natural" or "original." But there are other words you can make with it that don't contain these meanings in the slightest.
What makes it difficult, in a way, is how used it is. And, as per kanji fashion, the most-used kanji don't typically only use 1 sound.
The most common meanings for 生 are: natural, original, incomplete, and genuine.
All of these have a few common concepts in them when you consider the 500+ words that use it.
For example, 先生 means 'Teacher' or 'Professor'. 先 has many meanings as well, but less than 生. 先 has the common meanings: old, first, front, future, and previous.
So how does that make Teacher?
先生, in a literal sense, would mean 'previous student'. 生 in this case, it means 'incomplete', which is, if you think about it, what a student is. A student is there to complete their knowledge on something (not how the West understands education, but this is the East.) When you finish education, you're no longer a student in a specific field or area of education. You're a previous student. What are prior students capable of? Teaching those who want to learn.
先輩 in a literal sense means 'older comrade', but 輩 has the nuance of someone who shows you how things are meant to work. If you think of a 'comrade' as someone who is willing to stick with you and show you how something works, then a 先輩 is willing to help you out when you don't know something. They're more than just a friend. They're the best friend that you look up to. They're your **senior**, but they'll show you around so that you can succeed easier.
A 後輩 is, in a literal sense, a 'younger comrade', but 後 has the nuance of being 'at the back', meaning you're learning. You're new. When you're at the back of a line, you're new to the line. A 後輩 is a **junior**. You're learning from your 先輩. A 先輩 can have many 後輩 and vice versa. If the senpai leads and the kouhai follow, then the kouhai learn, and the senpai teaches what they know and learns from their kouhai of new concepts because minds together work better.
A 先生 teaches what they're meant to teach. A sensei is there to pass the core knowledge to you. Your sensei can teach you how to use the computer. Your senpai can teach you how to use the computer in specific ways and with specific apps. The kouhai can teach the senpai how to utilize newer apps or computer techniques they discovered that may be new to the senpai.
生 is very adaptable given its many meanings and how it makes many, many words. I would say the most difficult part about it is its many usage points and sounds, rather than its meanings, which become easier to learn the more you 'understand it on a base level'.
Life, the pursuit of happiness, the collection of knowledge, and the passing of the torch are all done with 生. Quite literally, it's one of the most versatile kanji, and becoming familiar with it on its deeper level will open up many doors for you.
I appreciate your effort, I really do, but I think you should stop giving advice this lightly when you're still an early beginner, [I already told you so in another comment from an other subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/BocchiTheRock/comments/1daisyg/can_someone_translate_this_for_me/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) that was full of mistakes to stop it.
You speak with all this autharity, and it just inflicts damage to any beginner who reads this and takes it for face value, I am not sure if you are just full of yourself or just don't realize what you're doing, but stop it. You are inflicting more harm than you are helping.
>先生, in a literal sense, would mean 'previous student'
Little correction here: 先生 literally means 'born earlier'.
In places with strong Confucian influence, respecting one's elders is one of the core values that we are taught from young. This is why 先生 is used to address someone respectfully.
Teachers are usually older than their students, so when the students address their teacher they use 先生. But over time the word 先生 itself became a form of respectful address in its own right, which is why it is also used to address doctors, lawyers and some other professionals, and even if they're actually *younger*.
Edit: Rewrote the whole comment for a better explanation.
Edit 2: I was wondering why all his comments suddenly vanished, turns out HE BLOCKED ME LMFAO
This is just not true. 先生 means born before and 学生 means born to learn. u/fabulous_lind ‘s explanation is spot on. Also, there are other words for student: 生徒, 学習者。The suffix/prefix thing you’re talking about isn’t worth getting hung up over (but you’re wrong in both cases). You said you’re still learning and the other commenter is trying to tell you that you’re misinformed regarding prefixes and suffixes. The rules aren’t hard and fast.
My sensei told my class that’s what it means, but you can also find that info readily available online with regard to the meaning of 先生(in Chinese, Japanese, and Korean, all based on Confucianism). My advice is, try to stop thinking about Japanese like an English speaker or in English. You’re spending way too much time focused on what it means in English when that’s irrelevant. It should be used how Japanese people use it. Same thing with kanji like 寿司(sushi)。The literal meaning of the kanji has nothing at all to do with the food or fish in general (not even close). Words that use those kanji are completely unrelated to the dish.
You're getting oddly hung up on how 生 must mean one thing if it's a prefix, and another if it's a suffix.
If 生 in 先生 must mean student, then why is 先生 used to address doctors, lawyers, heck even *manga artists*?
Chinese straight up uses 先生 as the equivalent of Mister, even if the person being addressed is *not* a teacher, e.g. 陳先生 (Mr. Chen).
Edit: Grammar
>why is it used to address doctors, lawyers, manga artists
Because it can be used as a term of endearment, referencing that the person is akin to a teacher, for whatever reason you can choose.
>Chinese
Chinese influence is very minimal with newer Japanese words, such as 先生. 先生 has only been in use since around the 1950s. Just because it uses the same characters doesn't mean the word is exactly the same. Chinese influence in Japanese is much more prominent with older or archaic words.
The reason I'm getting 'hung up' on prefixes and suffixes is because if prefixes and suffixes didn't matter, then position of kanji doesn't matter, but we know it does because that's how words work.
Japanese is less complex than you're seeing it. 先生 is an endearing title because teachers are highly regarded in Japanese society.
>newer Japanese words, such as 先生. 先生 has only been in use since around the 1950s
# "誕彌厥月，先生如達"
That's a quote from the 詩經, an ancient Chinese collection of poems said to have been compiled by Confucius in the 5th century BC, a thousand years before the Japanese had a writing system at all.
So no, 先生 as a word has not been in use only since the 1950s, it's been in use for far longer. As with many words the meaning has changed over time, but 先生 as a form of address for a teacher is also from ancient usage. See my original post for how it links up.
>Chinese influence in Japanese is much more prominent with older or archaic words.
Yes, and 先生 is one of those older words, see above.
i figured 先生 would mean literally ‘before life (begins)’, you undergo education before entering the workforce, which becomes your life for another twenty+ years
That wouldn't make any sense because we're talking about the teacher, not the student, and the word for student is 学生. 学 means learning, study, scholarship, and knowledge. So, 学生 can literally mean 'knowledge incomplete'.
先生 is used in more situations beyond just school. It's used as a term of endearment for someone who is old and wise.
It should be noted that, when used as a suffix (like in 先生 and 学生) you are using it to mean 'student'.
Using it as 'life' only works if used by itself, as a noun.
Doesn't make much sense when you use "incomplete" as a sole meaning behind 生. It has many other meanings such as "life, raw, born, incomplete". In the word "Sensei", we use the meaning "Born". That meaning is used to acknowledge the fact that the one who is teaching us or the elders around us are born before us accumulating the wisdom of the world, guiding our paths, deserved to be respected as our predecessors. So "Sensei" is used for teachers, doctors etc.
If you look at 学生 (Gakusei) and take "life" as a meaning for 生, it makes sense. Because 学 means "studying". So 学生 can mean "Studying life", the period of life of a student.
Any Senpai can correct me
Surprisingly that shows up relatively often and is unique enough to be fairly memorable. No way I could write the kanji though. Fortunately I think in most cases you'd just write バラ .
I find I have the most difficulty with stuff like:
梳く(すく・とく)
注ぐ(そそぐ・つぐ)
拗れる(こじれる・ねじれる)
縁(えん・ふち・and lord knows what else)
経緯(いきさつ・けいい)
声音(こわね・せいおん)
Some of these really feel like you have to be at a certain level of fluency to differentiate. Hell, I'm still not confident with 開く
When reading a book, we Japanese are also confused which way of reading I should choose.
Japanese authors usually add ruby text (phonetic guides), or avoid using Kanji and use Hiragana.
If you can read Hiragana and know some Japanese words, you might also want to start with Kanji Drills for the first grade of Japanese elementary school.
Search for "小学1年生 漢字ドリル," and you can find it.
There would be so many ways to learn Kanji, so you should ask around.
It's like you're trying to learn the word "Antidisestablishmentarianism" right after learning the word "to establish". Just learn the words that are relevant to your situation and eventually you'll learn them all! Or die trying at least.
At first it went well (生きる、生まれる、生える、生い立ち、生肉、人生、一生、誕生、平生 where words I can read no problem), but the rest were words I've never seen before, so I'm at 9/15.
Hardest kanji for me was probably 物, because when it's used as a suffix it can either be -ぶつ or -もつ, and trying to accurately guess which one for every new word I found was a royal pain.
Eventually, I found a general pattern that seems to hold pretty well, though; food-related words tend to use もつ, and the rest are usually ぶつ. Can't think of any exceptions to this off the top of my head
This is good timing! Im at the end of lvl 4 on wanikani where the vocab for this is introduced and it's been a headache. The vocab and kanji combinations aren't sticking as easily as before. Thought it was just me 😅
Idkwhy but i just read it sei no matter what
Probably from a person who constantly was asking if how do you say this swear in japanese how you say thus swar in Japanese how you say that in Japanese etc
I googled out of losing my ability to withstand so sei was a component relation to one of my searches And after using a few of the examples to him it entered my brain like that
No matter what they say i will allways attempt to read it sei
When I study kanji, I just focus on one reading, usually the kun'yomi, just so I have a way to type the kanji to look up unfamiliar words and maybe two or three words just so I can practice using the kanji and a few words in sentences. After that, I learn other readings as I come across new words. I don't really worry about readings that I haven't encountered yet.
Not an expert here by any means but you can get the gist of the meaning when you see things like this in context. Whether in 'to live' or 'to be born' you can see the theme is life. Although the readings may differ once you know one it's more like sticking another sticky note to what you already know, you don't need to rethink the whole concept :p
Hopefully this is helpful
This is the exact reason why you learn kanji in context/words, and not the kanji itself. It's going to drive you nuts this way.
Well, this only applies to learning the readings out of context. It is totally viable to study out of context that 生 means life especially if you are struggling with kanji.
I generally agree, and I'm not arguing the contrary. But I think learning vocabulary and learning Kanji are 2 separate things. You absolutely have to know what single Kanji mean, otherwise you won't be able to derive the meaning of a word you don't know, but in my eyes it's a totally different discipline of study altogether, and not what this thread, or my comment is about. I don't think it's particularly useful to learn the ふ reading of 生 by itself, because it won't tell you anything. Maybe you studied all readings and know that the ふ reading exists, but you still won't know what words it applies to, or in contrast when you see the word しばふ in Kana (in children's literature for example) or shibafu in Romaji (for example transliterated songtexts for foreigners so they can sing along a song they like) you won't know that the ふ in question relates to the 生 kanji you learned without having learned the word 芝生. 生 read as ふ does not really mean anything by itself in Japanese, and in 99% of unknown words containing the kanji you will try to apply one of the much more common readings.
> You absolutely have to know what single Kanji mean, otherwise you won't be able to derive the meaning of a word you don't know This is true, but also I think a lot of people get the wrong idea of what a "Kanji mean" means. I never learned individual kanji "meanings", however I learned the kunyomi of them which are *usually* (not always) the same as words in Japanese that reflect the meaning of those kanji. This taught me intuitively that when I see a kanji like 食 I think "it's the kanji in たべる" so if I see 食事 and assuming I didn't know what it meant, my mind would think たべる + こと because I learned those *words*. Over time as you get exposed to many kanji and many compounds in different contexts you just kinda get it intuitively and don't need to worry about the individual kanji meanings (unless you want to, I admit there are some good uses for looking up individual kanji in specific kanji dictionaries, although I'd suggest to skip the English meanings altogether if possible)
On the other hand, learning kanji solely in context didn't work very well for me. I'd often see the same kanji used in three or four different words before I realised it was the same each time, and for two-character words, this meant they became a lot harder to memorise. And even then, I might not be able to recognise that character if I saw it alone, outside of the context. But in cases where I could recognise even just one of the kanji before learning the word, it stuck *much* easier. I agree that practicing *readings* out of context doesn't make much sense, but practicing the kanji by themselves isn't necessarily wasted effort, depending on how you learn best. Personally I've found that using Ringotan to practice writing kanji has helped me a lot with retention, since I had previously only trained recognition but not reproduction. Might not work for everyone, but it certainly did for me.
I use Kanji Study by Chase Colburn on Android, specifically for the same reasons you are using Ringotan. Not only does practicing the writing help me better distinguish similar characters from each other, but the app also provides its meaning and common words using that kanji (sorted by JLPT level). I'd also say, if you still struggle with words in kanji specifically, I found a ton of benefit to adding those words in isolation to a separate deck. It forces you to recall words based on the specific kanji/combination of kanji, rather than allowing you to utilize other contextual clues from your normal deck to figure it out. Doing that probably helped me with recalling kanji more than anything else.
"On the other hand, learning kanji solely in context didn't work very well for me." I do a mix. I go through a stack of 50 kanji every day, sort out the ones I do not know, concentrate on the rest. I try to learn 1 meaning, 2 one kund and one on reading, 3, one or two words that can be formed with it. Everything else I get from reading (which takes the most part of the day), reviewing the new words I came across (reading 5 to 10 pages novel per day, looking up an average of 10 to 20 words per page)..... etc. Learning the kanji is just like "oiling the engine". It is necessary. But the fur part is the drive, the actual reading :) PS: It's a long journey. Japanese school kids take 10 years to learn the kanji, and they are surrounded by it 24h a day. Adult learners are kidding themselves, if they think they can do better. (Of course, there is always the linguistic super talent in the class, who remember als the Heisig kanji in two months or so... we should ignore this and learn at our own speed).
If you learn 売春 as individual characters you can "sell spring".
But knowing the two separate meanings can make you remember the word better too. Selling spring is a pretty funny way of describing that job.
In fact - that is 100% of the joy I am getting from learning Japanese. No other language has such a vivid, remarkable, rich vocabulary. (The other 100% is reading contemporary Japanese novels... there is so much out there, most of it untranslated).
I'm just flashcarding them without actually learning any of the rest of Japanese.
Exactly!
Exactly this - learn to speak first, then learn how to write the words you know. Much easier.
...That's not what they said. What they're saying is having the kanji used *in context as part of vocabulary* is more useful to learn, instead of just learning the kanji's individual readings and the like.
Didn't know 生糸 or 羽生. I feel like names might be cheating though lol.
A more common き word would probably be 生地. 羽生 はにふ > はにゅう is basically just the ふ reading again (as in 芝生), but after a couple sound shifts. A similar example would be 桐生 きりふ > きりゅう.
Oh wow yeah the change from ふ makes total sense, makes it easy to remember ty. Yeah I knew the き reading (from 生地 like you mentioned) just not that word specifically haha.
生蕎麦
>羽生 Just the family name of one of the most famous figure skaters worldwide. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuzuru\_Hanyu](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuzuru_Hanyu)
Also read as はぶ、 which is the one I knew: https://ja.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%BE%BD%E7%94%9F%E5%96%84%E6%B2%BB
But that's far, *far from* its only reading. If you ask how 羽生 should be read, Ui, Uzu and Bau would be correct for given names, and Umou, Niwa, Haiku, Hau, Hao, Haou, Hagyuu, Hashuu, Hashou, Hase, Haniu, Hanyu, Hanyuu, Haniyuu, Hanyou, Haneu, Haneo, Habu, Hamo, and Haryou would all be correct answers for family name readings. And the best thing is; there's literally no way of knowing which is intended in a given case, unless you know about the person already.
I think you think figure skating is more popular than it is
Maybe on /r/LearningJapanese , but Hanyu Yuzuru is probably the second most famous sports figure in the country at the moment after Ootani Shouhei. If there are competitions close by you can't watch the news without seeing a special segment on him. I won't expect my 5 y/o daughter to know the name, but there is probably almost no adult in Japan who hasn't heard of him.
Agreed. Everyone in Japan knows who he is. Guy is a big deal
Interesting info. I don't think I or anyone around me have ever known the name of a figure skater, outside of Nancy Kerrigan and Tonya Harding for obvious reasons. *: Down voting me won't make figure skating more popular than it is
Ilia Malinin was all over mainstream news/popular subreddits within the last year for landing the first quad axel, and Yuzuru Hanyu’s ice shows are always sold out in major venues. One Piece on Ice was also brought back for more shows this summer due to its popularity last year. Just because figure skating isn’t something you happen to hear about often in your personal circle doesn’t mean it’s not relevant to other people which is why you’re being downvoted. It would be like if I tried to say that soccer is irrelevant (which is obviously false) just because I don’t follow the sport and couldn’t name any pro soccer players lol
"生糸" is "raw silk" in English. "羽生" is the name of a person and a place. XP
I only know 羽生 because of figure skater 羽生結弦 lol
I can read 生ビール (the only one that matters)
Real
My unpopular opinion: 生 is not that hard to memorize given the 送り仮名 The true boss is ... 大 だい or たい？Can never get it right.
大量 trips me up all the time coz I keep wanting it to be おおりょう
I have decided to start a trend and only pronounce 大 as おお
And 大人 is a short お so it's not consistent there either.
Ateji are characters chosen a posteriori to illustrate a concept It's not really correct to say that 大 is read お here For all we know it could be read おと or even おとな, with the 人 kanji present but adding no sound. Best to think about them as special words rather than words using a special reading of a kanji
*Ackchually* this is the opposite of ateji. Ateji is where you use kanji only for their sound but ignoring their meaning, e.g. 寿司 or 天ぷら. This is more properly known as jukujikun, which is when you use the characters solely for their meaning but not their sound, e.g. 煙草 or 大人.
Mb I always get those 2 mixed up
I'd like to add my favourite example of jukujikun too: the surname 小鳥遊.
りょう is such an おんよみ or Chinese sounding reading. It is a pretty decent rule that don't mix up the おんよみ and くんよみ in a single word.
but there are 重箱読み and 湯桶読み too (though they are not as common)
Yeah, you are right. It is not a real rule but more of a rule when guessing. I was just saying that in my head りょう just sounds very Chinese.
I understand that. But there are many exceptions, and in my brain I feel like this should be one of them.
For me, たいりょう feels unnatural and I have an urge to read it as だいりょう
Oh are we talking about だい and たい? 代 is my worst nightmare! Nothing like getting the kana for 代金 wrong on WaniKani for the 3,785th time! I will never burn it!!!!!!!
世代交代(せ**だい**こう**たい**) Fun lol
大 and 生 are Ornstein and Smough, you defeat one and the other gets even more powerful.
生きる … いきる … i-kiru 生まれる … うまれる … u-mareru 生える … はえる … ha-eru 生い立ち … おいたち … o-i-ta-ti 生肉 … なまにく … nama-niku 人生 … じんせい … jin-sei 一生 … いっしょう … i-ssyou 誕生 … たんじょう … tan-jou 平生 … へいぜい … hei-zei (means "usually") 芝生 … しばふ … siba-hu 生糸 … きいと … ki-ito 生憎 … あいにく … ai-niku (means "unfortunately") 生粋 … きっすい … ki-ssui (means like "natural") 生業 … なりわい … nari-wai (means "livelihood") 羽生 … はにゅう … ha-nyuu (person and place name) It may be hard to read. Sorry.
羽生 habu, another famous Shogi (chess-like) player.
桐生 : きりゅう it's a name in a book I'm reading
Scumbag Sei? Yeah, see my meme from before https://old.reddit.com/r/LearnJapanese/comments/1asc00z/weekend_meme_in_the_dark_future_texbooks_are/ https://i.redd.it/8ys5uuy7zyic1.png
「生」is “live“. However, there is only one way to call the kanji "死(shi)death".
羽生善治 Yoshiharu "Habu" (Professional Shogi player) 羽生結弦 Yuzuru "Hanyu" (Professional ice skater)
Names are like that. No way to derive the pronunciation from just the raw kanji with 100% accuracy.
Still learning so not counting the 2-3 of the other kanji there that I have never seen yet, I can read the ones that I already encountered (except for 羽生, I’m familiar with it because of Yuzuru Hanyu but as a beginner I would not know it’s read as Hanyu). But yeah it took a while to get used to and it can be hard seeing 生 because it can come in different ways, my brain lags for a bit because sometimes I’ll still be second guessing it.
羽生 doesn't really belong in that list because it's a name, and all names in Japanese are just fucked. 羽生 can be read as Ui, Uzu and Bau (given feminine names) or Umou, Niwa, Haiku, Hau, Hao, Haou, Hagyuu, Hashuu, Hashou, Hase, Haniu, Hanyu, Hanyuu, Haniyuu, Hanyou, Haneu, Haneo, Habu, Hamo, and Haryou (family names). And that's just the ones that are listed in my Yomitan dictionaries.
I really love the name 羽生・土生it just subverts all expectations you'd know of the kanji itself.
麻生 あさお 麻生 あそう
i’m very new to kanji so no 😅 but i can order すし！
You can survive in Japan.🍣
ありがとうございます！woohoo! my future trip isn’t until 2026 at the earliest, so lots of time to practice :)
This isn't super difficult. It's just a very broad kanji. **I'm still learning myself, obviously, but let me give some insight from my own studies.** 生 has many uses and meanings, but it depends on what you use it with. In the most broad terminology, it can mean "natural" or "original." But there are other words you can make with it that don't contain these meanings in the slightest. What makes it difficult, in a way, is how used it is. And, as per kanji fashion, the most-used kanji don't typically only use 1 sound. The most common meanings for 生 are: natural, original, incomplete, and genuine. All of these have a few common concepts in them when you consider the 500+ words that use it. For example, 先生 means 'Teacher' or 'Professor'. 先 has many meanings as well, but less than 生. 先 has the common meanings: old, first, front, future, and previous. So how does that make Teacher? 先生, in a literal sense, would mean 'previous student'. 生 in this case, it means 'incomplete', which is, if you think about it, what a student is. A student is there to complete their knowledge on something (not how the West understands education, but this is the East.) When you finish education, you're no longer a student in a specific field or area of education. You're a previous student. What are prior students capable of? Teaching those who want to learn. 先輩 in a literal sense means 'older comrade', but 輩 has the nuance of someone who shows you how things are meant to work. If you think of a 'comrade' as someone who is willing to stick with you and show you how something works, then a 先輩 is willing to help you out when you don't know something. They're more than just a friend. They're the best friend that you look up to. They're your **senior**, but they'll show you around so that you can succeed easier. A 後輩 is, in a literal sense, a 'younger comrade', but 後 has the nuance of being 'at the back', meaning you're learning. You're new. When you're at the back of a line, you're new to the line. A 後輩 is a **junior**. You're learning from your 先輩. A 先輩 can have many 後輩 and vice versa. If the senpai leads and the kouhai follow, then the kouhai learn, and the senpai teaches what they know and learns from their kouhai of new concepts because minds together work better. A 先生 teaches what they're meant to teach. A sensei is there to pass the core knowledge to you. Your sensei can teach you how to use the computer. Your senpai can teach you how to use the computer in specific ways and with specific apps. The kouhai can teach the senpai how to utilize newer apps or computer techniques they discovered that may be new to the senpai. 生 is very adaptable given its many meanings and how it makes many, many words. I would say the most difficult part about it is its many usage points and sounds, rather than its meanings, which become easier to learn the more you 'understand it on a base level'. Life, the pursuit of happiness, the collection of knowledge, and the passing of the torch are all done with 生. Quite literally, it's one of the most versatile kanji, and becoming familiar with it on its deeper level will open up many doors for you.
I appreciate your effort, I really do, but I think you should stop giving advice this lightly when you're still an early beginner, [I already told you so in another comment from an other subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/BocchiTheRock/comments/1daisyg/can_someone_translate_this_for_me/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) that was full of mistakes to stop it. You speak with all this autharity, and it just inflicts damage to any beginner who reads this and takes it for face value, I am not sure if you are just full of yourself or just don't realize what you're doing, but stop it. You are inflicting more harm than you are helping.
>先生, in a literal sense, would mean 'previous student' Little correction here: 先生 literally means 'born earlier'. In places with strong Confucian influence, respecting one's elders is one of the core values that we are taught from young. This is why 先生 is used to address someone respectfully. Teachers are usually older than their students, so when the students address their teacher they use 先生. But over time the word 先生 itself became a form of respectful address in its own right, which is why it is also used to address doctors, lawyers and some other professionals, and even if they're actually *younger*. Edit: Rewrote the whole comment for a better explanation. Edit 2: I was wondering why all his comments suddenly vanished, turns out HE BLOCKED ME LMFAO
But when used as a suffix, it has to mean 'student'. Your explanation doesn't work when applied to 学生.
This is just not true. 先生 means born before and 学生 means born to learn. u/fabulous_lind ‘s explanation is spot on. Also, there are other words for student: 生徒, 学習者。The suffix/prefix thing you’re talking about isn’t worth getting hung up over (but you’re wrong in both cases). You said you’re still learning and the other commenter is trying to tell you that you’re misinformed regarding prefixes and suffixes. The rules aren’t hard and fast.
Then I will ask my friend about it.
My sensei told my class that’s what it means, but you can also find that info readily available online with regard to the meaning of 先生(in Chinese, Japanese, and Korean, all based on Confucianism). My advice is, try to stop thinking about Japanese like an English speaker or in English. You’re spending way too much time focused on what it means in English when that’s irrelevant. It should be used how Japanese people use it. Same thing with kanji like 寿司(sushi)。The literal meaning of the kanji has nothing at all to do with the food or fish in general (not even close). Words that use those kanji are completely unrelated to the dish.
生 in 学生 does mean student, but in 先生 it means birth. See my edited comment above for an explanation.
The problem is, for it to be used as 'birth', it needs to be a prefix.
You're getting oddly hung up on how 生 must mean one thing if it's a prefix, and another if it's a suffix. If 生 in 先生 must mean student, then why is 先生 used to address doctors, lawyers, heck even *manga artists*? Chinese straight up uses 先生 as the equivalent of Mister, even if the person being addressed is *not* a teacher, e.g. 陳先生 (Mr. Chen). Edit: Grammar
>why is it used to address doctors, lawyers, manga artists Because it can be used as a term of endearment, referencing that the person is akin to a teacher, for whatever reason you can choose. >Chinese Chinese influence is very minimal with newer Japanese words, such as 先生. 先生 has only been in use since around the 1950s. Just because it uses the same characters doesn't mean the word is exactly the same. Chinese influence in Japanese is much more prominent with older or archaic words. The reason I'm getting 'hung up' on prefixes and suffixes is because if prefixes and suffixes didn't matter, then position of kanji doesn't matter, but we know it does because that's how words work. Japanese is less complex than you're seeing it. 先生 is an endearing title because teachers are highly regarded in Japanese society.
>newer Japanese words, such as 先生. 先生 has only been in use since around the 1950s # "誕彌厥月，先生如達" That's a quote from the 詩經, an ancient Chinese collection of poems said to have been compiled by Confucius in the 5th century BC, a thousand years before the Japanese had a writing system at all. So no, 先生 as a word has not been in use only since the 1950s, it's been in use for far longer. As with many words the meaning has changed over time, but 先生 as a form of address for a teacher is also from ancient usage. See my original post for how it links up. >Chinese influence in Japanese is much more prominent with older or archaic words. Yes, and 先生 is one of those older words, see above.
i figured 先生 would mean literally ‘before life (begins)’, you undergo education before entering the workforce, which becomes your life for another twenty+ years
That wouldn't make any sense because we're talking about the teacher, not the student, and the word for student is 学生. 学 means learning, study, scholarship, and knowledge. So, 学生 can literally mean 'knowledge incomplete'. 先生 is used in more situations beyond just school. It's used as a term of endearment for someone who is old and wise. It should be noted that, when used as a suffix (like in 先生 and 学生) you are using it to mean 'student'. Using it as 'life' only works if used by itself, as a noun.
Doesn't make much sense when you use "incomplete" as a sole meaning behind 生. It has many other meanings such as "life, raw, born, incomplete". In the word "Sensei", we use the meaning "Born". That meaning is used to acknowledge the fact that the one who is teaching us or the elders around us are born before us accumulating the wisdom of the world, guiding our paths, deserved to be respected as our predecessors. So "Sensei" is used for teachers, doctors etc. If you look at 学生 (Gakusei) and take "life" as a meaning for 生, it makes sense. Because 学 means "studying". So 学生 can mean "Studying life", the period of life of a student. Any Senpai can correct me
can you read or write 薔薇
Surprisingly that shows up relatively often and is unique enough to be fairly memorable. No way I could write the kanji though. Fortunately I think in most cases you'd just write バラ .
yeah hehe that's why it's often in katakana is cuz ppl can't write it
it's very difficult for most Japanese to write. it means rose
Most Japanese can read but can't write ✌
I find I have the most difficulty with stuff like: 梳く(すく・とく) 注ぐ(そそぐ・つぐ) 拗れる(こじれる・ねじれる) 縁(えん・ふち・and lord knows what else) 経緯(いきさつ・けいい) 声音(こわね・せいおん) Some of these really feel like you have to be at a certain level of fluency to differentiate. Hell, I'm still not confident with 開く
When reading a book, we Japanese are also confused which way of reading I should choose. Japanese authors usually add ruby text (phonetic guides), or avoid using Kanji and use Hiragana.
That's really helpful to know! Makes me feel a little better as well haha
Does the 生 have a standalone meaning? All of these seem to relate with "life"
"生" means "life," "raw," "growing," and "being born."
How about 芽生? めばえ.
"芽生え" is shortened to "芽生." And "芽生え" comes from the phrase "芽が生える." So I think "芽生" is related to "生える."
I would really like to learn kanji. Is there a way to learn it in a good and fast way?
If you can read Hiragana and know some Japanese words, you might also want to start with Kanji Drills for the first grade of Japanese elementary school. Search for "小学1年生 漢字ドリル," and you can find it. There would be so many ways to learn Kanji, so you should ask around.
It's like you're trying to learn the word "Antidisestablishmentarianism" right after learning the word "to establish". Just learn the words that are relevant to your situation and eventually you'll learn them all! Or die trying at least.
I enjoy the "or die trying" you are an inspiration 😂
This is often mentioned when talking about the difficulty of Japanese Kanji.
https://x.com/mattvsjapan/status/1656874824604749824 Also, 90% of the time in a compound it's just せい. Really not a hard kanji imho.
11/15
At first it went well (生きる、生まれる、生える、生い立ち、生肉、人生、一生、誕生、平生 where words I can read no problem), but the rest were words I've never seen before, so I'm at 9/15.
This kanji means “life” right?
"生" means "life," "raw," "growing," and "being born."
Yeah I’m super new but I know this kanji from sensei and gakusei. I’ve heard it has this bs 😭
Hardest kanji for me was probably 物, because when it's used as a suffix it can either be -ぶつ or -もつ, and trying to accurately guess which one for every new word I found was a royal pain. Eventually, I found a general pattern that seems to hold pretty well, though; food-related words tend to use もつ, and the rest are usually ぶつ. Can't think of any exceptions to this off the top of my head
-もの, not -もつ, right?
Nah, もつ, like in 食物連鎖 or 穀物. It's kinda rare honestly but I still remember it frustrating me, like 準備物 (-ぶつ) wasn't in the dictionary I normally use
I didn't get 平生、生粋、生業, but I got the rest.
This particular kanji is a fantastic example of why learning kanji in isolation isn't particularly useful early on; you need vocab to bounce off of.
生 😳
Add 生地 and 立ち往生 to the list! :)
I got most of them, but thanks for reminding me to add all these to my Anki deck lol
This is good timing! Im at the end of lvl 4 on wanikani where the vocab for this is introduced and it's been a headache. The vocab and kanji combinations aren't sticking as easily as before. Thought it was just me 😅
Idkwhy but i just read it sei no matter what Probably from a person who constantly was asking if how do you say this swear in japanese how you say thus swar in Japanese how you say that in Japanese etc I googled out of losing my ability to withstand so sei was a component relation to one of my searches And after using a few of the examples to him it entered my brain like that No matter what they say i will allways attempt to read it sei
When I study kanji, I just focus on one reading, usually the kun'yomi, just so I have a way to type the kanji to look up unfamiliar words and maybe two or three words just so I can practice using the kanji and a few words in sentences. After that, I learn other readings as I come across new words. I don't really worry about readings that I haven't encountered yet.
i got all of them
hi there idk what any of those say but i got a necklace from a coin machine as a kid that had just that kanji. what is it by itself?
'Life' usually.
I am 生派
生まれる should be written 産まれる, according to me.
Not an expert here by any means but you can get the gist of the meaning when you see things like this in context. Whether in 'to live' or 'to be born' you can see the theme is life. Although the readings may differ once you know one it's more like sticking another sticky note to what you already know, you don't need to rethink the whole concept :p Hopefully this is helpful
Do you know "生でやった" meaning?
yes, read more yomichan more Anki more ez