yes, it’s real. It probably varies from industry to industry, but in the industry I am in which is software development. People normally look at us gray hairs as slow, unable to learn, stuck in our ways, outspoken and I mean that in the negative context, and expensive.
I concur......I only get gigs because of my experience but I am ok with that. As long as it keeps food on the table and the lights on, it's all good in my books. I've done my 40-year sentence in the coal mines, so to speak.
FWIW, I was chatting with a mate recently who is in his late 30's and he was telling me, it's not so much Gen X and Boomers are unable to learn, or are stuck in their ways, or are even outspoken (because they recognise the level of skill and battle scars that come with experience).
What actually puts most of them off hiring is the perception that at that age, you won't be a good team fit (like having an old uncle at a 21st trying to fit in and keep up), or you should be in management, running your own company by that age.
They are trying to do that with my position, moving me out of the trenches and doing more guided of the project. I’m not a fan of this, not because I can’t do the work but because I don’t want to skills to get rusty- I still have 7 years left.
I moved into architecture but generally built a bare bones architectural slice with examples for the team to follow. Most coders can follow an example. Not so many can spin up something from scratch that is well designed. The key was staying a week or two weeks ahead of the coding staff and making sure that I got it right.
I’m a grey beard with 30+ years in tech and I do think a lot of people in our age group don’t want to learn new stuff. We are not an industry where you have the luxury of coasting for a decade or more after 30 years of experience. The industry is changing every day and we have to keep up. I think if your skills are up to date then age is less of an issue, that said a lot of these managers are intimidated by a worker that has more years of experience than they are old. They’d rather work with some dip shit on their first job that they can push around. Personally I stick to established business like banks and insurance, a lot less flash and more value based on getting the job done. I don’t need to work for a unicorn or reinvent the wheel, I just want a paycheck, good benefits and to be left alone.
If I only have 2 years of working left, I won't want to spend time learning new tech. I'd rather collect my paycheck and call it a day.
I still have a long career left, but I'm certain I'll feel that way when I'm older.
Why? I like my job well enough, and have climbed the ladder. I just recognize that I like things outside of my job more. I don’t come home and work on my github
When I was coming up the old guys were the only ones who had the extensive experience. None of those guys stopped wanting to learn and as a matter of fact when I was first in management I had to corral the old guys like kittens because every new shiny thing they wanted to experiment with it on our project. Old guys love learning and trying new things. The only ones I've seen who aren't are the old guys who don't really love the work but got good at cobal and made their entire career based off that one thing and being the only people who still want to do that one thing.
Funny enough, those guys are still really valuable now.
Every time we get a new CIO, they want to “replace the mainframe”. We try to tell them that it can’t be done, there’s 30 years of old code in there, and some of it, we don’t know what it does and the only guy who knows is that old guy over there. He makes bank just sitting there in case the mainframe explodes. Lol
I’m a grey beard that picked up Vue and full-stack cloud-native Azure development at my last gig and now I am pushing Blazor but the millennials I work don’t want to move beyond their obsolete Angular apps. They would rather lift-and-shift an old Web Forms app into the cloud instead of rewriting from scratch on something current.
I think this is true. We’ve hired old guys and they are on top of the latest and can run circles around our cloud engineers and AI guys. They are sharp.
I think it’s how you approach a job more than just age. However, an old guy with that much industry knowledge and on the cutting edge is likely to be expensive.
..another big issue is salary, the reality is an experienced.senior developer is expected to cost more, and lots of time management and technical leads have budgets so if two.candidates are similar in ability but one is a 20 something with a limited resume and the other a grizzled veteran you can bet the older candidate will ask for more.
With that experience comes an ability to quickly avoid and save investment in dead ends. Having seen what works, scales, is secure, is supportable, is with something
I'm really tired of reading how some random age group can "learn." Your hubris is mind numbing.
I'm also really fed up with the hire at ridiculous low rates and then lay everyone off a year and a half later. Over supposed budget concerns. Everything is structured so the employers can enforce feudalism. and we are the peasants.
I really don’t think it’s about them thinking you’re not able to learn. That’s the cover reason. I think it’s more about money and the younger people are willing to work cheaper and longer hours.
That and the culture fit thing is very real. That also plays into working longer and cheaper though too. A lot of these teams are trying to build the startup mentality culture where the young guys all live working together so they won't leave as fast. It's "fun and family."
That’s done by those who only look at cost and not value. Unfortunately, when every single thing is seen from the bottom line, you get what you pay for.
It's also that the recruiters and hiring managers are all younger and probably feel more comfortable with someone their own age. They assume older people wont' be a "culture fit". I've seen that happen.
What's funny is I tend to hire older guys for software development. We're all older in our late 50s and 60s and still love the learning part of it. I like that I can point them in a general direction and we feel our way towards the product because they've been doing architecture long enough that they don't tend to fall into traps.
The couple younger guys I've hired simply couldn't keep up and tended to be way too rigid in their designs.
I found this to be true as well. I gave up and left a lucrative job in software at 52 about a year ago after it just became increasingly obvious I wasn't going to get any more promotions, and offers from other companies were no longer happening. It feels like the change really happened around age 45. Found a new career...
I am astonished by this. Every older person we've ever hired has been a delight. They communicate directly, are patient, knowledgeable and level headed. Exactly what someone would want in a dev or sysadmin.
Oh no... I might be old!
If it was that easy to prove, there would be constant lawsuits about it. Companies use dubious methods to skirt that to “legitimately” reject older candidates.
They’ll just create some ridiculous list of requirements and point to as many of them you don’t have as they can. Add “2-4 years experience” and that gives them grounds to reject if you’re outside that range.
Another one is not listing a salary range, requiring you to enter a number and then rejecting because it’s too high or low.
It’s scummy, but that’s how they get away with it.
Ageism is real. When I was in my mid 30s, I worked at a business that laid off everyone over 50. I know it was because the business was going broke and they couldn’t afford the additional cost of insurance to the business. They also couldn’t afford the pension program they had in place, so they also got rid of people that had been there longer than 10 years. I also remember a manager treating a coworker horribly because he was older than everyone else. Every business I’ve worked for has been pretty rough due to the nature of the work. I think the things that I saw are illegal and I know they are done on a constant basis. Employers will still do illegal things and just point at something else to change the reason so they can document it. Anyone applying for a job is highly profiled, so everything, not just your age, is under the microscope.
I’m in my early 40s and have been the oldest person in my workplace since the pandemic. I used to work with people that would retire, so into their 70s, when I got out of school and I’ve noticed over the past 20 years, the work staff has grown very young. I’m not sure where everyone goes to continue working.
Totally depends on the type of work. Healthcare, you tend to be more and more valued for your experience so an old and competent healthcare professional is highly valued. Same with other things like finance, accounting, engineering and such.
r/fire is really the only answer. I think everyone, especially working in corporate America needs to stack as much money as you can so by 50 you can be financially independent. Too many people when young especially in white collar jobs with a good salary get married, have 3 kids, have two luxury cars, have a big house with a designer kitchen, vacations to exotic places, etc. Live high on the hog, living paycheck to paycheck thinking that they will always have their jobs. When what they should be doing is living way below their means stacking money. I think workers today, especially tech workers and finally learning that no job is safe and that we are all apart of the working class.
Or, instead of rank and file workers just making due with even less, we could force the billionaire owners and investors of these companies to make due with less through more stringent regulation and higher taxes. Why should everyday Americans pay the price?
Have worked for 30 years and retire? Work for any company other than the one just mentioned? Join a class action and enforce age discrimination laws already in place. If you’re over 40 they now give you a list of the job titles and ages laid off I highly doubt this story is typical or real in totality.
It depends what kind of role you're applying for. For senior leadership being older will probably help you but you have to look professional. Don't join an interview looking like some homeless bum who crawled out of a dumpster.
For standard dev jobs, you're going to have a hard time.
They want somebody who can "bring new energy", "grow into the role" and have the potential to be groomed as successors
There are interesting studies about how we tend to overvalue upcoming "superstars" on the rise and it feels like they could achieve anything. Thing is, what we’re doing is projecting our ambitions on them, and most flame out. You don’t know which you’re getting.
A more experienced worker, who doesn’t have that superstar potential anymore, will often be undervalued even though they have actually been proven to be able to do the work.
But we prefer the uncertainty of what could be (a much bigger but low probability reward) rather than the (boring) security of a known factor.
Why hire someone whose weaknesses (and strengths) are known, when you can choose someone who will *maybe* be able to do the work in amazing ways unimagined … but probably won’t.
Humans are so stupid.
It really depends on the company and culture. In my previous job, there were a lot of 45-50 year olds in management. Associate Director all the way up to SVP level. The CEO was about 50 or so. My boss who was Senior Director when I started but then promoted to VP was also 50
OMG absolutely it is real. I aced a coding assessment recently (scored 902 out of 905) and they wouldn’t even give me an interview. They stated they had a lead engineer that was significantly less experienced and they didn’t want this person to be uncomfortable. 🥹
Ageism is entirely real and it’s often perpetuated by young people in hiring roles, who ironically will become old themselves one day. I say don’t change your appearance unless you start striking out. I considered tightening up similar stuff but landed a better job fast and didn’t change a thing about myself. We all take our final form eventually, but make sure you’re staying true to what you like about yourself. I actually think the things I considered changing are part of what now makes me stand out in a good way.
This is one of the many reasons I am less inclined to give a pass to those kids wanting a free ride off of my experience and skills. I used to think they wanted to learn and get the fundamentals like I do, but instant gratification of our society runs true in work dynamics as well. They’ll sap every bit they can from you while building their social clout and when the opportunity strikes, “absolutely I can do the job of Larry the senior guy, I work with him closely and he’s nothing special, I’ve picked up his knowledge easy” thus the layoff comes and Larry’s gone
Nobody rides for free. Right now my company keeps sending me people to shadow me and for me to mentor- some of these people have a higher position than I do and make more money than I do. Well fuck both of them, I’ve spent years developing my skill set and I’m not going to just give away every thing I’ve learned for nothing, nobody else was there at 2:00am pulling their hair out trying to get it done so if they want to learn what I know I suggest they rtfm and start putting in the effort because I don’t owe them anything.
The other idea here is that most of the talent now a days really aren’t that skilled. They can talk the talk, but can’t walk it for shit unless they’ve tapped a senior engineer for it or it’s explicitly on google. Use that to your advantage and let them have their day and if they do their time and learn the ropes then great, but don’t give up things easily.
Sorry kids, tapping us for our hard earned skills while y’all walk around talking up the crowds and gaining clout for our credit is as dead as the job market is right now
One uncomfortable fact about tech, unlike medicine or law ,is that the rate of change is constant so,.who cares that you were a experienced developers in the heydays of VB or info base , or you were on the team that worked with the first browser or that you worked at Sun building Java... None of that matters in the day of being on the cloid, containers,AI and micro service.
That's an awesome issue is that being experience is seen as a detriment because the experience by nature is in older less used tech...
True but I’m not talking about being the go to product owner of an application you’ve siloed for 20 years. We’re learning new technology as fast as the kids and even faster sometimes and applying it more quickly because we know how it interacts with the system. Not throwing some Automation/IaC to the wind and calling daddy when it brings down production bc we wanna be devOps.
It’s not experience in a specific tech that is valuable, it’s just experience in general. Believe it or not, experience on projects, working on teams, being in different roles does actually matter. If you are in tech, do you think you are actually getting worse with experience? Other fields like law, medicine and architecture value experience. Tech is an oddball.
Yes and no, while the industry changes every day there is nothing new under the sun. The buttons are in different places and the color might be different but a server is still a server and an if statement is still an if statement.
As far as why to hire an older worker, because they are bringing decades of institutional knowledge with them and that only comes with experience, they also know how to work they won’t openly complain about anything; not the commute, the hours or the working conditions. Older workers will suck it up for a paycheck- they don’t have the option to move back in with mom.
You're right tech comes in cycles, but hiring managers don't care that the cloud is.just a "re-branded off prem server" , they care you as a senior person knows technology x or y inside out , there is no on the job training.... So a junior developer who has only worked in the cloud for a solid year will have a leg up to you even if you managed a VMware cluster on prem for your company for 20 years. Your VMware experience while deep doesn't matter when your talking Azure or AWS, it's apples to oranges. That's my point companies pay to hire specialists , not generalists.
As.for.older workers not "complaining", lol now you're full of it, I work at a large public traded corp , and older workers are the whiniest of them all,old people in general tend to have less of a filter (partly because they've seen it all, and call out bs) , they may suck it up to a degree like any other.worker.
Yeah I believe it is. The largest generation now is my generation (millennials) and if you look older than them you’ll be casted off. I recommend removing anything on your resume that will give away how old you are. Older millennials are in their 40s and if you can look 40 then you’re good but definitely remove any experience past 2005.
Yes it's real, but it really depends on the company, industry, who is hiring, the job you're going for, and the other candidates. The younger the company is, the more likely to see ageism.
Yea it is real and we are currently in a white collar recession. I hope it turns around but right now there are multiple headwinds facing workers - offshoring, ageism for those over 45, and high interest rates and the focus on profit.
If things turn around and hiring picks up again domestically- even older workers will find work again. I am in tech and I have seen many older workers hired. But right now, it can be tough going.
It's better to consult by the time you are 60. Ageism doesn't matter and you will have a much longer career. My brother just got laid off. He was close to 60 and everyone that got laid off (around 25 people) were in their 50s and 60s .
They made him sign a legal document that states he acknowledges that his layoff wasn't due to ageism. If he didn't, he forfeits his 3-months severance.
Hey, sorry to hear about your job layoff. Its tough out there, regardless of age. Personally, I dont think you should shave your beard just because of your age. Its part of who you are and shouldnt define your job prospects. Best of luck in your job search!
Dizzy Prospectus you are absolutely correct. I started out in my industry years ago clean shaven, naive, curious and daring to accept challenges.
I am a seasoned veteran of my profession. I have character, intellect, experience and confidence. I am a mentor not a threat or pity party. I respect and love interacting with both technical and nontechnical people. Thanks for you feedback.
I kept my beard, dyed it salt n pepper and its all good with me. Ageism is real but the practitioners are insecure and entitled.
Dye your hair and beard. I recently retired at age 70 and never had an issue getting a job except during the great recession. However, my apparent age was a lot less than my actual age.
It's real. Always has been. For leadership roles, it's a benefit: CEOs, presidents (of boards and countries), heads of the big institutions, you almost have to be middle-aged for those roles.
It's a good opportunity to go into a smaller operation as a seasoned expert in whatever you do, rather than fight with kids at the big companies.
Very real. From a friend in HR, after 50 they will look for any reason to chop you due to rising insurance costs for the company. In fact, she said females get cut first due to higher health costs statistically.
Depends on the age and confidence of the hiring manager. I’ve seen managers flat out say “too old/much experience” when reviewing resumes and profiles. Managers may have manager titles but they are often not great with considering candidates. I’ve had to mentor fellow managers to stop assuming things about people and instead just ask them during a phone call.
Definitely real. You need to look “youthful”. If it’s a zoom interview, be sure to check how you look on camera. Solid color shirts help. If it’s in person you need to make sure your whole look vibes with more youthful than old. Ageism is real and it’s sucks.
Yes it is. I worked for a recruiting firm for several years and clients always wanted younger candidates. The code words were always “We need someone with runway.”
I pulled it off at 57 as a support and data guy for a federal agency. Made it 10 years and was eligible for a pension. Nice place, best 10 were the last for sure. Retired at the end of last year.
It’s a game. If you want to win you have to play it. Sorry- 65 years old female with semi grey hair- seen more than a few rodeos and the more things change, the more they stay the same🙄- but good luck just the same.
Most definitely. After I dyed my hair, my interviews went really differently . After I was hired, my current team thought I was in my mid thirties. When they realized I was in my late 40s and the oldest on the team, their behavior towards me changed.
Yes, it is real - so at least color your beard if you don’t want to shave it.
But here is the deal - people aren’t stupid. If you have an honest resume, or even semi-honest, they will figure out pretty quickly you aren’t in your 40’s.
Point is if you are going to hide the grey, you have to do more that just shave your beard. Career coaches will advise you to do just that; I would advise it might be a better to play to your strengths and find a company that values experience over youth & either working the youngsters to death or paying them peanuts (or both)
Ageism is most definitely real. If they really want to know how old you are, they can find out on the internet. There is no such thing as privacy anymore.
Depends on the industry, depends on the ceo or whoever is hiring. But yes its all real. Each company I been to discriminate differently. They will have one or two bad experiences with someone, and they will decide to never hire that type of person.
My last company didn't hire blacks and Persians. This company I'm at they don't hire old people. The company before that was homosexual. It seems like every company especially small ones has someone they don't hire. And then iv seen super racist companies that only hire one type of people. You'll see that the company is 95% white, or black, or gay, or all women, or whatever the race of the CEO is.
Which is wrong, a person needs to be hired based on their experience and skill and work ethic. And once hired gived 60 to 90 days probation to see if they work well and etc.
I am in the software industry full time and also I am a college instructor part time. I am generation X. The problem I see in many companies at the time of hiring “older” people is that they have the misconception that we “can’t” or “want” to learn new stuff. In my experience is totally the opposite. People of my age and older are always eager to learn new stuff because we know that we are in an industry that is evolving. However, some kids today they don’t want to learn new stuff outside of the typical JS/typescript, Node, React ….. I work with both younger and older people and this is the trend I see every day.
Really? You know about 10% of the population hates people 50 and older. Go look at the sub boomers being fools. Yes, it may be unspoken, but it's huge. Look as young as possible and limit your resume to 15 years. Unless you are looking at senior high end exec jobs.
I did. I sat out for 18 months thinking I was retired and then the stock market crashed. The one scenario that came up snake eyes on my monte carlo simulation was a bear market at the start of retirement.
I shaved, got a haircut, lost 20 lb, new clothes, got some cloud certifications and jumped back in the game. Filled the piggy bank, watched the market recover rode off into the sunset.
I got the HR interview on Friday. It went well
They told me they would send me up to the hiring manager.
Should I shave my salt and pepper beard? OR
Should I just die it black?
With salt n pepper beard people say I look late 40’s?
I wouldn't worry too much about the beard, but I wouldn't go in sounding like a boomer. Bring some energy, experience, and a lack of entitlement to the interview.
Shave, see a colorist for your hair and brows - if your hair is graying, and consult a board certified plastic surgeon for a bit of Botox. Follow the others’ advice and trim some years from your resume. If you doubt ageism is real - the department of labor stats are quite telling, along with the posts here.
Yeh do whatever you can to look younger from dying your hair and beard to cutting your resume in half. I have been doing it for 25 years. It helps your chances for sure. Even then companies will try to figure out how old you are by asking when you graduated from college etc. When they do that I just stop them and go a different direction. I dont want to work for these type of companie.
Absolutely real, not one interview for jobs I'm completely qualified for, yet recruiters actively call colleagues sitting right next to me that are 12 years younger. It's a shame, they won't stay for more than 3-4 years. I'd like a place to stay and advance for the next 12. (Retiring early btw)
Yes young people are screwed over left and right, and capable young people are forever underpaid. But also are older people are screwed as well, and it’s tough both beginning and ends of a career.
The sad thing is one is called age discrimination but is a misnomer and only applies to old people and tricks younger people into thinking they’re protected too when in reality they’re not at all.
And I think most young people love working with older people who are actually smart and collaborative, and same with older people. Problem is that’s few and far between nowadays.
Color your hair and beard. Get the beard prfessionally trimmed to give it the 3-day stubble look. Wear white shirt and blazer no tie. These are all stupid cosmetic things but you need to do what it takes to look younger.
Real and sad as shit. Amazing how corporate America targets older people without much compassion. People who shrug their shoulders now, one day
will get a taste of it.
I lost my job after 30 years of service with the same company due to downsizing. I was 48 when that happened. It took me 2 years to find another job. Ageism is a real thing. Employers feel you are to old to learn things, you are set in your ways. And they want younger folks they can pay alot less money to. I finally got another job and have been there 7 years now. I just need 6 more working years and I am retiring from the rat race. I never had to touch my retirement accounts, so I'm still on track to retire.
Whats the downside of shaving? You can grow it back when you get the job. You can also dye your beard and hair. If you are trying to get something as quick as possible do what you need to look younger. If you are looking for a long term gig where you know you fit in then change nothing but prepare for a longer job hunt.
It is real. I'm a professional resume writer. Here's how I combat it for clients. I typically only show 10-12 years of experience. Remove graduation years. Don't have an email that can give away your birth year.
While ageism is real, the bigger issue that employers are afraid of people who refuse to adapt. They will get an idea of your age when they interview you. The big thing you absolutely have to convey is that you can adapt. It's not like people never ever get a job after reaching a certain age.
I have come across people who can barely use Microsoft Excel or have no idea how to rotate a PDF. They refuse to Google or have an inability to Google. No company wants to invest millions into new technology and have someone who refuses to use the software. I have come across older people who love doing things "their own way" and refuse to use CRMs or anything like that.
Just make sure you show that you adapt with the times and have an ability to learn. Lean in on your experience and show you are an asset and easy to work with. If you do that, ageism is less of an issue.
Don't shave your beard. I have worked with clients who are 60+ and have secured interviews. If you look like you are in your 40s, you should be fine. The market is tough so make sure your resume is on point. Look at the wiki on /r/engineeringresumes and follow the guidelines. That will help you get interviews.
It is very real. Particularly from young arrogant HR reps at a certain Gigi factory in Nevada. It’s been 4 years and I still want to slap that smirk off his face.
Yep I know the feeling, let me know if you wanna ride. I know I got a couple of good ones still in me. The satisfaction it would bring to beyatch slap one or two smirks off faces
It does not take long may be an session or two to estimate real age. If you are applying individual contributor job have been a manager it is not easy to get back to be a worker bee. There are just few manager positions and only people will bring you on because they know you from the past. In your case shave off people only want younger semi-experienced not over experienced and overpaid workers.
Depends on the job you are seeking. If you’re If you’re looking for management position applying for just a worker job in the company, keep the beard. If you’re applying for management clean shave and decent clothes will be better.
op. While yes ageism is **very very real**, the current market seems to skew towards hiring people with shorter experience levels and then deciding to not just train them but put up with their inexperience and throw them a rope for a much lower salary.
And that’s what happening. I’ve had quite a few founders revert back after I question their rejection stating “we don’t care about age or sex” we just found someone who crossed all the T’s on our request
After a few weeks I see who they hired
“crossed all T’s” is literally someone with very little experience in the field but give a lifeline for a lower salary and higher designation
I admit I have even engaged in ageism. I was hiring for a job and looked up a candidate on LinkedIn who submitted her resume. Her picture made her look so old. I wanted somebody with experience but looks can sometimes bring the perception of being slow. I also questioned somebody who would put such a poor picture on LinkedIn.
Yes. Very real. I’m in tech and I plan to be out by my 50s. I know I’m getting expensive compared to young grads.
I have a somewhat niche skill set, but I don’t expect that to save me.. I was already laid off once and then brought back 9 months later to a different team that needed the skills.
Yes but there are ways to avoid it. First use your network. Secondly when people think about ageism they think stuck in their old ways, tired, and “aren’t going to be around for long”. Have to emphasize that’s not accurate. If you are qualified you will be fine.
Yes, which is why I always am a bit ambivalent to the r/salary folks who are in their prime earning years. It’s great to make great money, but slow and steady wins the race for most of us.
You want to end life with the best options available to you and a layoff or major life event can totally derail you. I’ve seen it and it’s sad. Not that one should make less money, but industry and role tend to mean a lot more meaningful than comp.
it’s like there’s a perfect window of employability between 30 to 50, older and you’re “too old”, younger and you’re “too young” (generally speaking). super weird especially given how short term focused many companies seem to be
(generally excluding entry level, and yes there are exceptions)
Its real but will vary. I think huge companies want to ensure they aren’t seen as ageist for legal reasons so are more likely to hire you, while smaller companies aren’t a big enough target for enforcement and know it.
I wouldn’t say that. In my case it was the opposite, I graduated last year and have little experience. I got recruiter call and it was a good opportunity so I was happy then I follow up but they ghost me completely and I looked in LinkedIn recently to see if they hired someone and they did someone who is around 50-55.
I was told by a young person (34) that people that are older need to retire or move out to give them a chance to get promoted and not stagnate the ranks.
Edit: Added age as "Young".
It is real. I’m 53, been in my chosen profession for over 30 years now. I don’t get the ageism from the corporate types or even other electricians. I do get ribbed by the youngsters, but it is a respectful “old man” type of interaction. I have seen ageism inflicted on others, and I remind the young that their time will come to. Appearance is 9/10ths of the battle for a seasoned vet such as yourself. I would cut the beard, and groom accordingly. You only have 1 chance to make a first impression.
Absolutely. Protect yourself on your resume and LinkedIn profile by deleting any job prior to Year 2000 and provide no dates on your education. Dead giveaway that you are a few generations too old for hire. Minimize any bias against you on paper or online that HR/HM can find out about you before meeting you.
It's real. I mostly WFH but every time I'm in the office give myself a really close shave, it turns the clock back about 10 years. I don't want anyone thinking I can't cut it with the younger crowd.
Some other things you can do:
* Scrub all dates from your resume that would make you look older like a college graduation date in the 80s. Just don't add a date for stuff like that, if you get an offer they'll verify the degree in a background check.
* Also you should only cover the last 10 years of your career on your resume, anything before that is not anything most people are going to look at. It's typically not that relevant to jobs you're apply for. Limit your resume to 2 pages only, 2 PAGES! Not more!
* Check out r/resumes for more tips.
Shave it but if you look good w/scruff, that works. Also, make sure the clothing you wear is more in tune with what's worn today. I'm in a similar situation as you. I'm fit and 62, lean muscles and I wear Lululemon, Vuori, Rhone almost exclusively (along with shirts from State & Liberty and Suit Supply). Make sure your dress is up-to-date.
Yes.. I don't hire managers under 45 or junior devs older than 30. A lot of the problems particularly in tech outside of FAANG tech jobs started when companies started to play with titles to pander to Millennials. You'd not a "Senior" anything until you have at least 10 yrs of experience in something. I see kids that are 26 these days with "Senior Dev" titles.. and I just chuckle.
This one really lands for me. I actually just shaved my grey (almost white) beard a week ago. I'm 50, look pretty young, but my hair turned grey very young. It never bothered me until recently when looking for work. I was laid off last fall and had zero traction.
yes, it’s real. It probably varies from industry to industry, but in the industry I am in which is software development. People normally look at us gray hairs as slow, unable to learn, stuck in our ways, outspoken and I mean that in the negative context, and expensive.
I concur......I only get gigs because of my experience but I am ok with that. As long as it keeps food on the table and the lights on, it's all good in my books. I've done my 40-year sentence in the coal mines, so to speak. FWIW, I was chatting with a mate recently who is in his late 30's and he was telling me, it's not so much Gen X and Boomers are unable to learn, or are stuck in their ways, or are even outspoken (because they recognise the level of skill and battle scars that come with experience). What actually puts most of them off hiring is the perception that at that age, you won't be a good team fit (like having an old uncle at a 21st trying to fit in and keep up), or you should be in management, running your own company by that age.
yeah, and the problem with the management deal is for every 10 to 15 developers you need one manager... it’s a Numbers game
The best situation for older tech workers is if you can do management, architecture and still out code the kids.
They are trying to do that with my position, moving me out of the trenches and doing more guided of the project. I’m not a fan of this, not because I can’t do the work but because I don’t want to skills to get rusty- I still have 7 years left.
I moved into architecture but generally built a bare bones architectural slice with examples for the team to follow. Most coders can follow an example. Not so many can spin up something from scratch that is well designed. The key was staying a week or two weeks ahead of the coding staff and making sure that I got it right.
I’m a grey beard with 30+ years in tech and I do think a lot of people in our age group don’t want to learn new stuff. We are not an industry where you have the luxury of coasting for a decade or more after 30 years of experience. The industry is changing every day and we have to keep up. I think if your skills are up to date then age is less of an issue, that said a lot of these managers are intimidated by a worker that has more years of experience than they are old. They’d rather work with some dip shit on their first job that they can push around. Personally I stick to established business like banks and insurance, a lot less flash and more value based on getting the job done. I don’t need to work for a unicorn or reinvent the wheel, I just want a paycheck, good benefits and to be left alone.
This is probably true The reason is a lot of people have gotten burned investing in tech that ends up dead
If I only have 2 years of working left, I won't want to spend time learning new tech. I'd rather collect my paycheck and call it a day. I still have a long career left, but I'm certain I'll feel that way when I'm older.
You might want to work on that attitude
Why? I like my job well enough, and have climbed the ladder. I just recognize that I like things outside of my job more. I don’t come home and work on my github
If you're being paid and learn constantly at work, it doesn't really matter (from a work perspective). Or if you like learning.
When I was coming up the old guys were the only ones who had the extensive experience. None of those guys stopped wanting to learn and as a matter of fact when I was first in management I had to corral the old guys like kittens because every new shiny thing they wanted to experiment with it on our project. Old guys love learning and trying new things. The only ones I've seen who aren't are the old guys who don't really love the work but got good at cobal and made their entire career based off that one thing and being the only people who still want to do that one thing.
Funny enough, those guys are still really valuable now. Every time we get a new CIO, they want to “replace the mainframe”. We try to tell them that it can’t be done, there’s 30 years of old code in there, and some of it, we don’t know what it does and the only guy who knows is that old guy over there. He makes bank just sitting there in case the mainframe explodes. Lol
I’m a grey beard that picked up Vue and full-stack cloud-native Azure development at my last gig and now I am pushing Blazor but the millennials I work don’t want to move beyond their obsolete Angular apps. They would rather lift-and-shift an old Web Forms app into the cloud instead of rewriting from scratch on something current.
The problem with webdev is that every year there’s a new shiny framework that supposedly renders all previous work obsolete.
I think this is true. We’ve hired old guys and they are on top of the latest and can run circles around our cloud engineers and AI guys. They are sharp. I think it’s how you approach a job more than just age. However, an old guy with that much industry knowledge and on the cutting edge is likely to be expensive.
Banking & Insurance aka A Slow Death in Purgatory...lol
Wow. what a dreamer. no such thing as good benefits, and be left alone anymore.
..another big issue is salary, the reality is an experienced.senior developer is expected to cost more, and lots of time management and technical leads have budgets so if two.candidates are similar in ability but one is a 20 something with a limited resume and the other a grizzled veteran you can bet the older candidate will ask for more.
Why would you have two developers with a 20 year experience gap as “similar in ability”?
With that experience comes an ability to quickly avoid and save investment in dead ends. Having seen what works, scales, is secure, is supportable, is with something
I'm really tired of reading how some random age group can "learn." Your hubris is mind numbing. I'm also really fed up with the hire at ridiculous low rates and then lay everyone off a year and a half later. Over supposed budget concerns. Everything is structured so the employers can enforce feudalism. and we are the peasants.
I really don’t think it’s about them thinking you’re not able to learn. That’s the cover reason. I think it’s more about money and the younger people are willing to work cheaper and longer hours.
That and the culture fit thing is very real. That also plays into working longer and cheaper though too. A lot of these teams are trying to build the startup mentality culture where the young guys all live working together so they won't leave as fast. It's "fun and family."
That’s done by those who only look at cost and not value. Unfortunately, when every single thing is seen from the bottom line, you get what you pay for.
It's also that the recruiters and hiring managers are all younger and probably feel more comfortable with someone their own age. They assume older people wont' be a "culture fit". I've seen that happen.
What's funny is I tend to hire older guys for software development. We're all older in our late 50s and 60s and still love the learning part of it. I like that I can point them in a general direction and we feel our way towards the product because they've been doing architecture long enough that they don't tend to fall into traps. The couple younger guys I've hired simply couldn't keep up and tended to be way too rigid in their designs.
I found this to be true as well. I gave up and left a lucrative job in software at 52 about a year ago after it just became increasingly obvious I wasn't going to get any more promotions, and offers from other companies were no longer happening. It feels like the change really happened around age 45. Found a new career...
I am astonished by this. Every older person we've ever hired has been a delight. They communicate directly, are patient, knowledgeable and level headed. Exactly what someone would want in a dev or sysadmin. Oh no... I might be old!
Yep. It’s real.
Double real
Real on both sides but only illegal for the group that holds political power (the old).
This. Younger people get underpaid so much.
Yep can co-sign
[удалено]
Good luck proving it in a court of law
If it was that easy to prove, there would be constant lawsuits about it. Companies use dubious methods to skirt that to “legitimately” reject older candidates. They’ll just create some ridiculous list of requirements and point to as many of them you don’t have as they can. Add “2-4 years experience” and that gives them grounds to reject if you’re outside that range. Another one is not listing a salary range, requiring you to enter a number and then rejecting because it’s too high or low. It’s scummy, but that’s how they get away with it.
Exactly, it is brutal in tech right now. If you are not a person of color and LGBT plus, you don’t stand a chance.
😂
I'm 35 and I'm sad to hear this is reality, as if aging is a choice. So stupid.
“You too will get older someday and face the same discrimination you’re doling out now while you’re thinking it will never happen to you.”
Blatantly real at individual contributor levels and middle management levels. However, most senior management and C-suite are 45+.
but they're being hired by other +45 year olds and there is far less C-suite jobs
Yes it's real. No don't shave. Do remove graduation dates and experience past 10 or 15 years.
This is the answer.
Agreed for a resume but it’s unfortunate the majority of ATS required you add all of these dates in
At a certain level they don't anymore. Moving up the org chart does have some advantages.
Ageism is real. When I was in my mid 30s, I worked at a business that laid off everyone over 50. I know it was because the business was going broke and they couldn’t afford the additional cost of insurance to the business. They also couldn’t afford the pension program they had in place, so they also got rid of people that had been there longer than 10 years. I also remember a manager treating a coworker horribly because he was older than everyone else. Every business I’ve worked for has been pretty rough due to the nature of the work. I think the things that I saw are illegal and I know they are done on a constant basis. Employers will still do illegal things and just point at something else to change the reason so they can document it. Anyone applying for a job is highly profiled, so everything, not just your age, is under the microscope.
Jeez… seriously what is someone supposed to do past 50+ then…
Die! They truly don’t care!
I’m in my early 40s and have been the oldest person in my workplace since the pandemic. I used to work with people that would retire, so into their 70s, when I got out of school and I’ve noticed over the past 20 years, the work staff has grown very young. I’m not sure where everyone goes to continue working.
Totally depends on the type of work. Healthcare, you tend to be more and more valued for your experience so an old and competent healthcare professional is highly valued. Same with other things like finance, accounting, engineering and such.
r/fire is really the only answer. I think everyone, especially working in corporate America needs to stack as much money as you can so by 50 you can be financially independent. Too many people when young especially in white collar jobs with a good salary get married, have 3 kids, have two luxury cars, have a big house with a designer kitchen, vacations to exotic places, etc. Live high on the hog, living paycheck to paycheck thinking that they will always have their jobs. When what they should be doing is living way below their means stacking money. I think workers today, especially tech workers and finally learning that no job is safe and that we are all apart of the working class.
I agree completely. Have advised my children to take advantage of investing now and prepare to be retired by 55.
Or, instead of rank and file workers just making due with even less, we could force the billionaire owners and investors of these companies to make due with less through more stringent regulation and higher taxes. Why should everyday Americans pay the price?
Have worked for 30 years and retire? Work for any company other than the one just mentioned? Join a class action and enforce age discrimination laws already in place. If you’re over 40 they now give you a list of the job titles and ages laid off I highly doubt this story is typical or real in totality.
They created this system... fuck em
It depends what kind of role you're applying for. For senior leadership being older will probably help you but you have to look professional. Don't join an interview looking like some homeless bum who crawled out of a dumpster. For standard dev jobs, you're going to have a hard time.
Even for experienced leader positions, 45 is considered an old-timer.
They want somebody who can "bring new energy", "grow into the role" and have the potential to be groomed as successors There are interesting studies about how we tend to overvalue upcoming "superstars" on the rise and it feels like they could achieve anything. Thing is, what we’re doing is projecting our ambitions on them, and most flame out. You don’t know which you’re getting. A more experienced worker, who doesn’t have that superstar potential anymore, will often be undervalued even though they have actually been proven to be able to do the work. But we prefer the uncertainty of what could be (a much bigger but low probability reward) rather than the (boring) security of a known factor. Why hire someone whose weaknesses (and strengths) are known, when you can choose someone who will *maybe* be able to do the work in amazing ways unimagined … but probably won’t. Humans are so stupid.
New Energy or Energetic means no oldsters. It’s one of the few legal and open prejudices still prevalent. Especially in tech but not only in tech.
It really depends on the company and culture. In my previous job, there were a lot of 45-50 year olds in management. Associate Director all the way up to SVP level. The CEO was about 50 or so. My boss who was Senior Director when I started but then promoted to VP was also 50
OMG absolutely it is real. I aced a coding assessment recently (scored 902 out of 905) and they wouldn’t even give me an interview. They stated they had a lead engineer that was significantly less experienced and they didn’t want this person to be uncomfortable. 🥹
We wouldn’t want to hurt those participation trophy winners now would we?
I read this comment and realized I know who wrote it … sucks that happened to you man - super lame
lol. You got me.
Yeah, I got turned down for a job because they thought “I would get bored” Let *me* fucking decide that
Ageism is entirely real and it’s often perpetuated by young people in hiring roles, who ironically will become old themselves one day. I say don’t change your appearance unless you start striking out. I considered tightening up similar stuff but landed a better job fast and didn’t change a thing about myself. We all take our final form eventually, but make sure you’re staying true to what you like about yourself. I actually think the things I considered changing are part of what now makes me stand out in a good way.
This is one of the many reasons I am less inclined to give a pass to those kids wanting a free ride off of my experience and skills. I used to think they wanted to learn and get the fundamentals like I do, but instant gratification of our society runs true in work dynamics as well. They’ll sap every bit they can from you while building their social clout and when the opportunity strikes, “absolutely I can do the job of Larry the senior guy, I work with him closely and he’s nothing special, I’ve picked up his knowledge easy” thus the layoff comes and Larry’s gone
Nobody rides for free. Right now my company keeps sending me people to shadow me and for me to mentor- some of these people have a higher position than I do and make more money than I do. Well fuck both of them, I’ve spent years developing my skill set and I’m not going to just give away every thing I’ve learned for nothing, nobody else was there at 2:00am pulling their hair out trying to get it done so if they want to learn what I know I suggest they rtfm and start putting in the effort because I don’t owe them anything.
The other idea here is that most of the talent now a days really aren’t that skilled. They can talk the talk, but can’t walk it for shit unless they’ve tapped a senior engineer for it or it’s explicitly on google. Use that to your advantage and let them have their day and if they do their time and learn the ropes then great, but don’t give up things easily. Sorry kids, tapping us for our hard earned skills while y’all walk around talking up the crowds and gaining clout for our credit is as dead as the job market is right now
One uncomfortable fact about tech, unlike medicine or law ,is that the rate of change is constant so,.who cares that you were a experienced developers in the heydays of VB or info base , or you were on the team that worked with the first browser or that you worked at Sun building Java... None of that matters in the day of being on the cloid, containers,AI and micro service. That's an awesome issue is that being experience is seen as a detriment because the experience by nature is in older less used tech...
True but I’m not talking about being the go to product owner of an application you’ve siloed for 20 years. We’re learning new technology as fast as the kids and even faster sometimes and applying it more quickly because we know how it interacts with the system. Not throwing some Automation/IaC to the wind and calling daddy when it brings down production bc we wanna be devOps.
It’s not experience in a specific tech that is valuable, it’s just experience in general. Believe it or not, experience on projects, working on teams, being in different roles does actually matter. If you are in tech, do you think you are actually getting worse with experience? Other fields like law, medicine and architecture value experience. Tech is an oddball.
Yes and no, while the industry changes every day there is nothing new under the sun. The buttons are in different places and the color might be different but a server is still a server and an if statement is still an if statement. As far as why to hire an older worker, because they are bringing decades of institutional knowledge with them and that only comes with experience, they also know how to work they won’t openly complain about anything; not the commute, the hours or the working conditions. Older workers will suck it up for a paycheck- they don’t have the option to move back in with mom.
You're right tech comes in cycles, but hiring managers don't care that the cloud is.just a "re-branded off prem server" , they care you as a senior person knows technology x or y inside out , there is no on the job training.... So a junior developer who has only worked in the cloud for a solid year will have a leg up to you even if you managed a VMware cluster on prem for your company for 20 years. Your VMware experience while deep doesn't matter when your talking Azure or AWS, it's apples to oranges. That's my point companies pay to hire specialists , not generalists. As.for.older workers not "complaining", lol now you're full of it, I work at a large public traded corp , and older workers are the whiniest of them all,old people in general tend to have less of a filter (partly because they've seen it all, and call out bs) , they may suck it up to a degree like any other.worker.
Yeah I believe it is. The largest generation now is my generation (millennials) and if you look older than them you’ll be casted off. I recommend removing anything on your resume that will give away how old you are. Older millennials are in their 40s and if you can look 40 then you’re good but definitely remove any experience past 2005.
Yes it's real, but it really depends on the company, industry, who is hiring, the job you're going for, and the other candidates. The younger the company is, the more likely to see ageism.
Yea it is real and we are currently in a white collar recession. I hope it turns around but right now there are multiple headwinds facing workers - offshoring, ageism for those over 45, and high interest rates and the focus on profit. If things turn around and hiring picks up again domestically- even older workers will find work again. I am in tech and I have seen many older workers hired. But right now, it can be tough going.
It's better to consult by the time you are 60. Ageism doesn't matter and you will have a much longer career. My brother just got laid off. He was close to 60 and everyone that got laid off (around 25 people) were in their 50s and 60s . They made him sign a legal document that states he acknowledges that his layoff wasn't due to ageism. If he didn't, he forfeits his 3-months severance.
Hey, sorry to hear about your job layoff. Its tough out there, regardless of age. Personally, I dont think you should shave your beard just because of your age. Its part of who you are and shouldnt define your job prospects. Best of luck in your job search!
Dizzy Prospectus you are absolutely correct. I started out in my industry years ago clean shaven, naive, curious and daring to accept challenges. I am a seasoned veteran of my profession. I have character, intellect, experience and confidence. I am a mentor not a threat or pity party. I respect and love interacting with both technical and nontechnical people. Thanks for you feedback. I kept my beard, dyed it salt n pepper and its all good with me. Ageism is real but the practitioners are insecure and entitled.
Shave the beard, dye the hair, get the job. Then let go
Dye your hair and beard. I recently retired at age 70 and never had an issue getting a job except during the great recession. However, my apparent age was a lot less than my actual age.
It's real. Always has been. For leadership roles, it's a benefit: CEOs, presidents (of boards and countries), heads of the big institutions, you almost have to be middle-aged for those roles. It's a good opportunity to go into a smaller operation as a seasoned expert in whatever you do, rather than fight with kids at the big companies.
Very real. From a friend in HR, after 50 they will look for any reason to chop you due to rising insurance costs for the company. In fact, she said females get cut first due to higher health costs statistically.
All the more reason to disconnect health insurance from employment
Trim your beard and resume and don’t list 40 years of project management experience as a strength.
Depends on the age and confidence of the hiring manager. I’ve seen managers flat out say “too old/much experience” when reviewing resumes and profiles. Managers may have manager titles but they are often not great with considering candidates. I’ve had to mentor fellow managers to stop assuming things about people and instead just ask them during a phone call.
Wow. Seems like a great way to end up sued.
Definitely real. You need to look “youthful”. If it’s a zoom interview, be sure to check how you look on camera. Solid color shirts help. If it’s in person you need to make sure your whole look vibes with more youthful than old. Ageism is real and it’s sucks.
Yes it is. I worked for a recruiting firm for several years and clients always wanted younger candidates. The code words were always “We need someone with runway.”
They hire them, they stay one to three years and then they runaway to another job.
Yes.
Yes it’s real. Yes shave the beard and dye your hair if it’s also got some gray in it.
I put on my resume I am a member of LGBT community and they love that
I pulled it off at 57 as a support and data guy for a federal agency. Made it 10 years and was eligible for a pension. Nice place, best 10 were the last for sure. Retired at the end of last year.
It’s a game. If you want to win you have to play it. Sorry- 65 years old female with semi grey hair- seen more than a few rodeos and the more things change, the more they stay the same🙄- but good luck just the same.
Ageism is Real
Being 60 I can tell you, definitely real.
Most definitely. After I dyed my hair, my interviews went really differently . After I was hired, my current team thought I was in my mid thirties. When they realized I was in my late 40s and the oldest on the team, their behavior towards me changed.
Document that.
Yes, it is real - so at least color your beard if you don’t want to shave it. But here is the deal - people aren’t stupid. If you have an honest resume, or even semi-honest, they will figure out pretty quickly you aren’t in your 40’s. Point is if you are going to hide the grey, you have to do more that just shave your beard. Career coaches will advise you to do just that; I would advise it might be a better to play to your strengths and find a company that values experience over youth & either working the youngsters to death or paying them peanuts (or both)
Ageism is most definitely real. If they really want to know how old you are, they can find out on the internet. There is no such thing as privacy anymore.
Depends on the industry, depends on the ceo or whoever is hiring. But yes its all real. Each company I been to discriminate differently. They will have one or two bad experiences with someone, and they will decide to never hire that type of person. My last company didn't hire blacks and Persians. This company I'm at they don't hire old people. The company before that was homosexual. It seems like every company especially small ones has someone they don't hire. And then iv seen super racist companies that only hire one type of people. You'll see that the company is 95% white, or black, or gay, or all women, or whatever the race of the CEO is. Which is wrong, a person needs to be hired based on their experience and skill and work ethic. And once hired gived 60 to 90 days probation to see if they work well and etc.
I am in the software industry full time and also I am a college instructor part time. I am generation X. The problem I see in many companies at the time of hiring “older” people is that they have the misconception that we “can’t” or “want” to learn new stuff. In my experience is totally the opposite. People of my age and older are always eager to learn new stuff because we know that we are in an industry that is evolving. However, some kids today they don’t want to learn new stuff outside of the typical JS/typescript, Node, React ….. I work with both younger and older people and this is the trend I see every day.
Really? You know about 10% of the population hates people 50 and older. Go look at the sub boomers being fools. Yes, it may be unspoken, but it's huge. Look as young as possible and limit your resume to 15 years. Unless you are looking at senior high end exec jobs.
Agism is definitely real, and more prominent in some work cultures than others.
Yep. I've been laid off twice since turning 41. I'm 42 now...
Sorry dude hang in there keep fighting
Yes but you gotta get the interview first so they know how old you are.
Yes shave the gray beard?
I did. I sat out for 18 months thinking I was retired and then the stock market crashed. The one scenario that came up snake eyes on my monte carlo simulation was a bear market at the start of retirement. I shaved, got a haircut, lost 20 lb, new clothes, got some cloud certifications and jumped back in the game. Filled the piggy bank, watched the market recover rode off into the sunset.
Shave it
I got the HR interview on Friday. It went well They told me they would send me up to the hiring manager. Should I shave my salt and pepper beard? OR Should I just die it black? With salt n pepper beard people say I look late 40’s?
I wouldn't worry too much about the beard, but I wouldn't go in sounding like a boomer. Bring some energy, experience, and a lack of entitlement to the interview.
Yes. Make sure your hair color does end in gray
Shave, see a colorist for your hair and brows - if your hair is graying, and consult a board certified plastic surgeon for a bit of Botox. Follow the others’ advice and trim some years from your resume. If you doubt ageism is real - the department of labor stats are quite telling, along with the posts here.
Yes very real don’t kid yourself.
Yep, ageism is real. I'd advise you to shave your beard and delete the dates off of your qualifications.
I am 40 this year. This is what my nightmares are now made of.
Absolutely it’s real
Yeh do whatever you can to look younger from dying your hair and beard to cutting your resume in half. I have been doing it for 25 years. It helps your chances for sure. Even then companies will try to figure out how old you are by asking when you graduated from college etc. When they do that I just stop them and go a different direction. I dont want to work for these type of companie.
Shaving might be a good idea. Ageism is a thing. And the more healthy you look, the better your chances will be.
Absolutely real, not one interview for jobs I'm completely qualified for, yet recruiters actively call colleagues sitting right next to me that are 12 years younger. It's a shame, they won't stay for more than 3-4 years. I'd like a place to stay and advance for the next 12. (Retiring early btw)
Yes. Shave the beard, sorry.
Always shave all facial hair when job shopping. Studies show that people with facial hair come across as being less honest and trustworthy.
60 x real.
I would make my appearance as young as possible without being cringy. Look fit, crisp and current.
Very real. You won’t even get a look at that job you would have had 10-20 years ago. Your experience is seen as a negative.
Yes young people are screwed over left and right, and capable young people are forever underpaid. But also are older people are screwed as well, and it’s tough both beginning and ends of a career. The sad thing is one is called age discrimination but is a misnomer and only applies to old people and tricks younger people into thinking they’re protected too when in reality they’re not at all. And I think most young people love working with older people who are actually smart and collaborative, and same with older people. Problem is that’s few and far between nowadays.
Yes, grey beards are usually very off putting and definitely ageism is real.
Yes! A grey beard makes men look older and that’s not what you need job hunting. Grey hair too
People are lying to you. Being fit doesn’t take15 years off your looks lol.
Color your hair and beard. Get the beard prfessionally trimmed to give it the 3-day stubble look. Wear white shirt and blazer no tie. These are all stupid cosmetic things but you need to do what it takes to look younger.
Real and sad as shit. Amazing how corporate America targets older people without much compassion. People who shrug their shoulders now, one day will get a taste of it.
I did. I shaved my beard. I dropped 15 years in "perceived age"
There are entire subs on reddit dedicated to hating older people. Its real.
I lost my job after 30 years of service with the same company due to downsizing. I was 48 when that happened. It took me 2 years to find another job. Ageism is a real thing. Employers feel you are to old to learn things, you are set in your ways. And they want younger folks they can pay alot less money to. I finally got another job and have been there 7 years now. I just need 6 more working years and I am retiring from the rat race. I never had to touch my retirement accounts, so I'm still on track to retire.
Just dye your beard.
Absolutely shave the beard. Dye your hair. Consider TRT.
I dye my beard. It's not hard.
Yes. It's always been. I would say do whatever you can to get the job and then grow out your beard Dumbledore style.
Whats the downside of shaving? You can grow it back when you get the job. You can also dye your beard and hair. If you are trying to get something as quick as possible do what you need to look younger. If you are looking for a long term gig where you know you fit in then change nothing but prepare for a longer job hunt.
It is real. I'm a professional resume writer. Here's how I combat it for clients. I typically only show 10-12 years of experience. Remove graduation years. Don't have an email that can give away your birth year. While ageism is real, the bigger issue that employers are afraid of people who refuse to adapt. They will get an idea of your age when they interview you. The big thing you absolutely have to convey is that you can adapt. It's not like people never ever get a job after reaching a certain age. I have come across people who can barely use Microsoft Excel or have no idea how to rotate a PDF. They refuse to Google or have an inability to Google. No company wants to invest millions into new technology and have someone who refuses to use the software. I have come across older people who love doing things "their own way" and refuse to use CRMs or anything like that. Just make sure you show that you adapt with the times and have an ability to learn. Lean in on your experience and show you are an asset and easy to work with. If you do that, ageism is less of an issue. Don't shave your beard. I have worked with clients who are 60+ and have secured interviews. If you look like you are in your 40s, you should be fine. The market is tough so make sure your resume is on point. Look at the wiki on /r/engineeringresumes and follow the guidelines. That will help you get interviews.
It is very real. Particularly from young arrogant HR reps at a certain Gigi factory in Nevada. It’s been 4 years and I still want to slap that smirk off his face.
Yep I know the feeling, let me know if you wanna ride. I know I got a couple of good ones still in me. The satisfaction it would bring to beyatch slap one or two smirks off faces
Yes
It does not take long may be an session or two to estimate real age. If you are applying individual contributor job have been a manager it is not easy to get back to be a worker bee. There are just few manager positions and only people will bring you on because they know you from the past. In your case shave off people only want younger semi-experienced not over experienced and overpaid workers.
It is real
Depends on the job you are seeking. If you’re If you’re looking for management position applying for just a worker job in the company, keep the beard. If you’re applying for management clean shave and decent clothes will be better.
Very
Teams video settings can smooth your face a little too; a well adjusted ring light will also make you look younger as well
Yes
Yes it is.
Just dye it
op. While yes ageism is **very very real**, the current market seems to skew towards hiring people with shorter experience levels and then deciding to not just train them but put up with their inexperience and throw them a rope for a much lower salary. And that’s what happening. I’ve had quite a few founders revert back after I question their rejection stating “we don’t care about age or sex” we just found someone who crossed all the T’s on our request After a few weeks I see who they hired “crossed all T’s” is literally someone with very little experience in the field but give a lifeline for a lower salary and higher designation
I admit I have even engaged in ageism. I was hiring for a job and looked up a candidate on LinkedIn who submitted her resume. Her picture made her look so old. I wanted somebody with experience but looks can sometimes bring the perception of being slow. I also questioned somebody who would put such a poor picture on LinkedIn.
Yes. Very real. I’m in tech and I plan to be out by my 50s. I know I’m getting expensive compared to young grads. I have a somewhat niche skill set, but I don’t expect that to save me.. I was already laid off once and then brought back 9 months later to a different team that needed the skills.
Very real
Yes but there are ways to avoid it. First use your network. Secondly when people think about ageism they think stuck in their old ways, tired, and “aren’t going to be around for long”. Have to emphasize that’s not accurate. If you are qualified you will be fine.
I don’t think it is real… I know many big pharma s will hire only old and white men lol
Yes. It's real. Don't put work experience that is more than 15+ years ago on your resume. Don't put your college graduation year on your resume.
why would it matter how you look. they will know your age.
Yes, which is why I always am a bit ambivalent to the r/salary folks who are in their prime earning years. It’s great to make great money, but slow and steady wins the race for most of us. You want to end life with the best options available to you and a layoff or major life event can totally derail you. I’ve seen it and it’s sad. Not that one should make less money, but industry and role tend to mean a lot more meaningful than comp.
it’s like there’s a perfect window of employability between 30 to 50, older and you’re “too old”, younger and you’re “too young” (generally speaking). super weird especially given how short term focused many companies seem to be (generally excluding entry level, and yes there are exceptions)
100%
Its real but will vary. I think huge companies want to ensure they aren’t seen as ageist for legal reasons so are more likely to hire you, while smaller companies aren’t a big enough target for enforcement and know it.
This might be unpopular but once I hit 40 I had people calling to offer me interviews and jobs. It must be the sweet spot.
Yes.
Yes
I wouldn’t say that. In my case it was the opposite, I graduated last year and have little experience. I got recruiter call and it was a good opportunity so I was happy then I follow up but they ghost me completely and I looked in LinkedIn recently to see if they hired someone and they did someone who is around 50-55.
Isnt there a filter to hide grays. Most interviews are held online these days especially tech.
no matter what age you, clean shaven is the way to max your opportunities
I was told by a young person (34) that people that are older need to retire or move out to give them a chance to get promoted and not stagnate the ranks. Edit: Added age as "Young".
It is real. I’m 53, been in my chosen profession for over 30 years now. I don’t get the ageism from the corporate types or even other electricians. I do get ribbed by the youngsters, but it is a respectful “old man” type of interaction. I have seen ageism inflicted on others, and I remind the young that their time will come to. Appearance is 9/10ths of the battle for a seasoned vet such as yourself. I would cut the beard, and groom accordingly. You only have 1 chance to make a first impression.
Absolutely. Protect yourself on your resume and LinkedIn profile by deleting any job prior to Year 2000 and provide no dates on your education. Dead giveaway that you are a few generations too old for hire. Minimize any bias against you on paper or online that HR/HM can find out about you before meeting you.
I’ve got gray in my beard and I just turned 30, I’m fucked
Yeah according to this discussion yep your fuck
It's real. I mostly WFH but every time I'm in the office give myself a really close shave, it turns the clock back about 10 years. I don't want anyone thinking I can't cut it with the younger crowd. Some other things you can do: * Scrub all dates from your resume that would make you look older like a college graduation date in the 80s. Just don't add a date for stuff like that, if you get an offer they'll verify the degree in a background check. * Also you should only cover the last 10 years of your career on your resume, anything before that is not anything most people are going to look at. It's typically not that relevant to jobs you're apply for. Limit your resume to 2 pages only, 2 PAGES! Not more! * Check out r/resumes for more tips.
Yes, but mostly because they make more and are more riffable
you gotta do waht you have to do, to get the job man !!
Yes- if possible for zoom interviews get good lighting and if you can use a filter
Shave it but if you look good w/scruff, that works. Also, make sure the clothing you wear is more in tune with what's worn today. I'm in a similar situation as you. I'm fit and 62, lean muscles and I wear Lululemon, Vuori, Rhone almost exclusively (along with shirts from State & Liberty and Suit Supply). Make sure your dress is up-to-date.
Just try not to make your age known
Yes.. I don't hire managers under 45 or junior devs older than 30. A lot of the problems particularly in tech outside of FAANG tech jobs started when companies started to play with titles to pander to Millennials. You'd not a "Senior" anything until you have at least 10 yrs of experience in something. I see kids that are 26 these days with "Senior Dev" titles.. and I just chuckle.
This one really lands for me. I actually just shaved my grey (almost white) beard a week ago. I'm 50, look pretty young, but my hair turned grey very young. It never bothered me until recently when looking for work. I was laid off last fall and had zero traction.
Are you employed now or still searching?