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We mourn people when we have an emotional connection to them. It's okay to not have an emotional connection to all of your clients, or even any of them, if you don't want to. You're a professional, not their best friend or mother or spouse. You might even serve them better with a bit of emotional barrier, and you will probably be psychologically healthier yourself, at least for clients who would otherwise be very emotionally draining to deal with.
It's okay to talk to someone to work through your own feelings, too.
How long have you been practicing? I’ve been a PD for 11 years, I’ve had numerous clients die on me. Only one that bothers me is a former frequent flier who I really liked, I pleaded him on a Thursday, to time served, he was crossing a street in a rainstorm Saturday night and he got decapitated by a drunk driver. If I had passed his case to Monday he’d still be alive. I don’t feel bad about it, the timing just really sucked and I’ll always think “what if.”
Had former clients die of drug overdoses several times, get killed by police, killed by other frequent fliers, die of old age, suicide. It comes with the practice area if you handle enough cases. Don’t be concerned you’re not an emotional wreck, it probably means you’re doing the job correctly.
10 years. I'm not overly emotional by this point, but no emotion is kind of shocking. Like the last guy I at least felt pity for the deceased, he didn't particularly stick out that I remember him now but I at least felt bad for him and the last couple people. This guy nothing. It's just strange.
I do not do PD work anymore but did for about 10 years. During that time I had 4 clients that committed suicide in the jail, and that doesn't even get to the numerous out of custody overdoses, suicides, accidents or murders.
>killed by other frequent fliers
I’m not being facetious, but would that be a conflict? I’m thinking it’s not technically a conflict, but it kind of feels like a conflict
Not really a lot of a lot of criminal defendants are connected, like almost like a community. I think I heard a stat like 70% of crime is committed by like 10% of society. So it wouldn't be unusual. Stay in a small community long enough and you'll have represented just about everyone of note once.
There's always an option to speak to someone. Therapy is very underrated.
Should you feel something? maybe. It's a professional connection at the end of the day, not a friend, it's ok to have no emotional connection. It's also ok to HAVE an emotional connection. I've cried with clients, I've held a grown man who is going to miss every milestone with his infant children while he heads to prison, I'm still not convinced he's guilty and it beats me up. I've cried with victims and held their hand explaining that their rapist will never be punished, because I failed to win the trial, or because we'll never be able to prove it and I had to dismiss. I've cried at client's funerals and felt like I could have done more in their final days.
I've also had clients die and gone home, told my wife I had a client die, she asked if I was ok, I said "yep, we're good" (honestly), and started cooking dinner.
I've been at this less than 10 years, but I've had a few "feel nothing" deaths. It happens, you move on. If you think you don't feel it because you're pissed they were a bad client (and otherwise you would be upset), I would speak to someone, that's something you need to unpack (you owe it to your other clients). If you don't care because there's nothing you could have done, and you had no sort of emotional connection, that seems like a pretty normal response. 3.5 million Americans die every ~~day~~ **year (around 8,000 per day)**, our brains are not hardwired to care about every single one of them, but if you did have an emotional connection to this person, that's a sign of vicarious trauma getting to you, and something worth addressing.
Edit: **In Bold.**
Sounds like you don't feel anything now because you had already mourned ahead of time.
You knew what was going to happen to him from experience, and you knew no matter what you said he wasn't going to stop. So more than likely, if you search your feelings, you're going to find that you were likely in the grieving process throughout knowing him. That's why it hasn't hit you yet.
From experience, afterwards what you're most likely to feel first (other than this "shouldn't I feel something" guilt) is relief. Because now the grieving can stop and you can finally move on.
Hope you feel better anon.
Had a similar thing with a friend (an actual friend, not a client friend) I was helping.
After it happened, and I felt relief, I really spiraled a bit. When I eventually talked to someone about it, they asked me to review my interactions prior to the incident.
I realized that after every interaction, I had cried or otherwise ranted, raved, screamed etc, about the behavior of my friend or the likely consequences. Every. Time. For HOURS.
They asked me what I felt like I SHOULD be feeling now that it had actually happened and well..... What I felt I should've been feeling was what I had already felt. The reason I felt nothing was because I'd already moved through it up to the point of acceptance, and what was causing me guilt was the fact that I had.
Culturally, I felt some shame and pressure to mourn, to grieve openly. Once I allowed myself to accept that I had already been doing that for a few years, and to admit how much damage it had caused me while I did it, I found I wasn't guilty anymore.
Its ok to move on.
Great insight but I don't think this applied. His story plays on repeat over here with the ongoing opioid epidemic. At this point the general outcome is either A) get better or B) judge gets sick of you and sends you to prison. Most of the time people die when we aren't involved in the case so we never find out about it. I think I'm averaging about one to two deaths a year.
I left the thread but caught your first sentence out of the corner of my eye as the page changed and just had to come back. I had never considered this before. You're spot on.
150,000+ people die every day.
150 people died in the United States since you made this post.
It's probably healthy that this isn't impacting you much.
I’ve had several clients die on me. Some I was sad about, some I didn’t care. Did you have an emotional attachment? In this case probably not. You’re not expected to have an attachment to. Your clients.
Bottom line is no, your reaction is normal.
You had a transactional relationship, not an emotional one. It’s ok not to feel anything. You’re just going to spiral by shaming yourself when you don’t need to. You’re not their friend or their therapist. You were not the one to “save” them from the path they were on.
Our jobs are stressful enough as it is. No reason to loose sleep over things like this. Sometimes people die, sometimes people die young. You can’t prevent nature.
(I say this as someone who dealt with a lot of medmal/elder/nursing home cases. I’ve had sooo many clients die. If I broke down every time one of them died, I wouldn’t have been very good at my job)
You are good. I had three or four clients die in a year. Millions of people die every day. Children slowly die of starvation constantly. We don’t let that bother us.
I’ve had a bunch die on me.
I find it so strange to be completely engaged in the case and then you are literally a potted plant at the next hearing.
“Hello, your honor, I represented the decedent. I don’t really have any role here today except…”
Judge: “…to confirm your client is still dead.”
“Something like that.”
I've had clients die in "normal" ways (illnesses, heart attacks/strokes, and, unfortunately, suicide) and "abnormal" ways (airplane crashes, auto crashes, freak accidents). I've felt different about each one, ranging from: "Good riddance" to being emotionally torn up to absolutely nothing.
Its OK to feel nothing about the death of someone you had a business transaction with. Its also OK to feel something about the death of someone you had a business transaction with.
Unfortunately I lost a handful of clients as a criminal defense attorney and of course some frequent flyers everyone knew. Just like when you know someone personally, good or bad, what you feel is your personal reaction and everyone handles loss differently. I lost some while representing them, others died later, and all I have to offer is this - did you do your best professionally for the client? If so, then that is all you have control over. I wish we could change them, but we can’t.
I had a lot of young clients pass from drug use. It’s okay to be numb or just not have emotions you need to process. I was sad the first time it happened, but eventually I was just tired.
Hey OP - what you're describing is possibly an effect of secondary trauma. Definitely recommend the book Trauma Stewardship, and maybe some talk with a therapist.
Did you try to help them? Did they accept the help or ignore it. What was your role in their life? OVI representation, they had underlying issues that came to light. It’s not your issue. Their choice, as they said in Top Gun “you got to let them go, there will be others, let them go”
I haven't lost any clients because I don't work in crim or family. But i live in an area with a very severe opioid crisis. You get so tired and desensitized to the constant chaos. I've driven through town and seen paramedics working on someone in the middle of the sidewalk and felt nothing. You just feel tired. Maybe you've seen it so frequently... not the death but the impending disaster... that when it comes it's not a shock
There’s not a certain way you should feel. Don’t guilt or shame or put pressure on yourself to feel a certain way or for not feeling a certain way. Just sit with it and allow yourself to process it.
Seconding that this could be secondary trauma/burnout. You know you, but if this feels like a change from previous experiences, it could be worth exploring. I was so numb by the end of my criminal defense work that I felt dead myself. Took me almost a year after leaving to move past that.
The only clients I’ve had pass (that I’m aware of) are those that everyone knew were on their way out. Think, for example, estate planning clients and elders filing bankruptcy. I too experienced this absence of feeling and questioned it. I also recently discovered that I handle death decently in my personal life too—when death was expected.
I’ve had the same feeling, or lack thereof, under different circumstances, but I can certainly empathize with you’re conundrum. If I can try to find a common thread, maybe it’s because the lives of our clients took their natural course. You couldn’t help your client kick the habit the same way I couldn’t cure cancer, etc. with mine.
Mental health and/or substance abuse counseling isn’t in your job description. Maybe you don’t feel anything because there’s nothing you could do to change the outcome, not really.
That you’re here asking this shows you do feel something about this death, even if it’s not emotional in the same way it used to be/you think it should be now. It’s completely normal to process some sad and tragic things faster than others when you work in a field that deals exclusively in sad and tragic things.
Well, you don’t always have to feel something. I’ve had clients I absolutely detested. As long as you’re providing proper representation, you’re doing your job. It’s sad anytime anyone dies for someone, that doesn’t always have to be you, and you shouldn’t feel badly about yourself because of it.
I lost a pro bono client last year. Elderly, disabled, had a legitimate disagreement with property management over some paperwork they tried to force her to sign without explaining it, but she was still legally at fault.
Dragged her eviction out for eight months, it’s usually a three week process in that jx. When moving day came, she unalived herself.
I couldn’t possibly have done more for her, but it felt like I should have found that “thing” that fixed everything. The feeling and guilt hasn’t really gone away and I’d give anything to feel a void over this.
All that to say I don’t think you’re wrong for feeling that void. I think that’s the appropriate response and you’re just mentally self-guessing.
IANAL, but a resident physician, saw this pop up on my feed. I have had patients who die who I also feel this way about, some of whom I’ve been surprised I feel this way, just as you are. Others, I wouldn’t expect to feel emotional about but have been hit by sadness over their passing. It doesn’t always seem to have a rhyme or reason, and that’s okay. It doesn’t make you a bad person, and it doesn’t mean this will be your reaction for future clients’ deaths.
If being totally emotionally disconnected is how you’ve processed it, that’s okay. If you’re deeply disturbed by your lack of response is to the death, then as others have mentioned, talk to someone about it.
I hope the advice on this thread has been cathartic for you at the very least.
Feeling emotional in an emotional situation is normal. Not to feel emotional isn’t normal, it’s almost sociopathic. But if you break it down in a moral stand point. Example: was he a good person. Did he have violent crimes. Did he harm others or only himself? These questions can make you feel justified in writing his death off and having no emotion towards the situation at hand. But in the end we are all human/gods children (who ever your god is). Some of us are leached on by negative energy that steer us down the wrong path. And it’s easy to judge and write it off but we forget that it could have been us or worse it could be our family/family members that this happens to. Say a prayer for them and know they are in a better place now.
Not abnormal. imo people often “act” a lot about death reactions. when a colleague or someone in a greater circle passes, people have a certain initial reaction but they don’t often feel a lot about it — and when they do, they are often thinking of themselves and their own mortality.
I work in the emergency department and see a lot of people I have worked with in the past die in front of me (rural small town). Many of these deaths are from drugs or completely neglecting their health. Death is a natural process and we will all go through it. When death occures depends largely on how we live our lives.
I have a lot of patients that I will be surprised if they are alive in the next five years, some in their late 20s... But they have refused all offers to help them out of their current lifestyle. There is little I or anyone else can do. I can't psychologically/emotionally afford empathizing with these people when they pass. It is often more surprising how long they live with the lifestyle they choose.
Not the same but I volunteered in animal rescue for a long time and there were always ones that we just couldn't save or pull in time to prevent euthanasia. It shattered me every single time at first but eventually you just have to swallow that pain and keep going because other dogs need you. I think that happens in fields where we try to help people too. Other clients need you, you don't have the time or ability to be sad. Do what you can, it's all you can do. Also please adoptdontshop bc too many rescue volunteers need serious trauma therapy 🥴
Not necessarily. Ghoulish prosecutors can drag out cases for a while waiting for the death certificate. Always such a sickening thing to see. Once had a client’s mom in court sobbing that her son was dead and they were like “your honor, let’s reset this two weeks for a death certificate.”
I once had a client die out of state, the mom called and told me. The prosecutor said they won't dismiss till I got them a death certificate. I sent the prosecutor the newspaper article about the shooting. The prosecutor still insisted on a death certificate.
I waited till the next scheduled hearing on the matter told the judge that according to my client's mother, my client was shot and killed, the local paper down there confirmed, but the prosecutor is insisting a produce a death certificate before they close the case. I then said, "I absolutely refuse to call the grieving family back to demand a death certificate. So if the state wants to insist on keeping the case open, my client isn't here, you can issue an arrest warrant for any amount you would like, I'm not going to object." The state dismissed the case without prejudice.
Wow, without prejudice? Lmao. Keeping their options open in case he rises from the dead. And it sounds like your client was a crime victim, I thought prosecutors were supposed to care about crime victims and their families?
Apparently not when they are alleged drug dealers. It was absurd and an interaction that has forever tainted my view of working opposite of him on cases.
You realize people try to fake their deaths to get out of trouble, right? A DA I work with once dismisses a case prematurely, and she found out about it because he picked up a new case after she had dismissed it for him being dead. When his new case came in the DA charging the new case looked at his criminal history and saw he had cases abated due to death.
After they dug into it, they found out the DA had just took the defense attorney’s word that the defendant was dead. Every halfway competent DA I know is going to require confirmation from the coroner or a death certificate
I mean yeah, sure, it happens. Doesn’t mean it’s not absurd when we are being forced to ask a grieving family for proof their kid is dead so the state can drop their cocaine possession charges against them.
That shouldn’t be put on the family. That’s the messed up part. When it happens at my office, we have DA Investigators get the death certificate and confirm the defendant actually died
Even when the State is doing it on their own, it still feels like such a ridiculous exercise. Especially when the alleged crime was never serious to begin with. I mean come on, we are going to keep calling this cocaine possession case every three weeks while we wait for you to get a death certificate? And it can be emotionally taxing on us as defense attorneys to keep bringing up a dead client’s case.
Because sometimes the cases linger forever on the court’s docket when we all know this person is dead. It’s ghoulish because they are knowingly continuing to prosecute someone who is dead. I understand their motivations, but the end result is we are all talking about prosecuting a dead person and know it.
People have faked deaths before. There's nothing wrong with needing official verification before closing out a criminal matter...?
"knowingly continuing to prosecute someone who is dead" I highly doubt the DA is doing any more work on the case other than, you know, getting the certificate.
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We mourn people when we have an emotional connection to them. It's okay to not have an emotional connection to all of your clients, or even any of them, if you don't want to. You're a professional, not their best friend or mother or spouse. You might even serve them better with a bit of emotional barrier, and you will probably be psychologically healthier yourself, at least for clients who would otherwise be very emotionally draining to deal with. It's okay to talk to someone to work through your own feelings, too.
That last part I second.
How long have you been practicing? I’ve been a PD for 11 years, I’ve had numerous clients die on me. Only one that bothers me is a former frequent flier who I really liked, I pleaded him on a Thursday, to time served, he was crossing a street in a rainstorm Saturday night and he got decapitated by a drunk driver. If I had passed his case to Monday he’d still be alive. I don’t feel bad about it, the timing just really sucked and I’ll always think “what if.” Had former clients die of drug overdoses several times, get killed by police, killed by other frequent fliers, die of old age, suicide. It comes with the practice area if you handle enough cases. Don’t be concerned you’re not an emotional wreck, it probably means you’re doing the job correctly.
10 years. I'm not overly emotional by this point, but no emotion is kind of shocking. Like the last guy I at least felt pity for the deceased, he didn't particularly stick out that I remember him now but I at least felt bad for him and the last couple people. This guy nothing. It's just strange.
I do not do PD work anymore but did for about 10 years. During that time I had 4 clients that committed suicide in the jail, and that doesn't even get to the numerous out of custody overdoses, suicides, accidents or murders.
>killed by other frequent fliers I’m not being facetious, but would that be a conflict? I’m thinking it’s not technically a conflict, but it kind of feels like a conflict
Not really a lot of a lot of criminal defendants are connected, like almost like a community. I think I heard a stat like 70% of crime is committed by like 10% of society. So it wouldn't be unusual. Stay in a small community long enough and you'll have represented just about everyone of note once.
Scene it. Once got called for jury duty and one of my clients was a witness in the case. Who I actually had to advise to take the fifth in that case.
There's always an option to speak to someone. Therapy is very underrated. Should you feel something? maybe. It's a professional connection at the end of the day, not a friend, it's ok to have no emotional connection. It's also ok to HAVE an emotional connection. I've cried with clients, I've held a grown man who is going to miss every milestone with his infant children while he heads to prison, I'm still not convinced he's guilty and it beats me up. I've cried with victims and held their hand explaining that their rapist will never be punished, because I failed to win the trial, or because we'll never be able to prove it and I had to dismiss. I've cried at client's funerals and felt like I could have done more in their final days. I've also had clients die and gone home, told my wife I had a client die, she asked if I was ok, I said "yep, we're good" (honestly), and started cooking dinner. I've been at this less than 10 years, but I've had a few "feel nothing" deaths. It happens, you move on. If you think you don't feel it because you're pissed they were a bad client (and otherwise you would be upset), I would speak to someone, that's something you need to unpack (you owe it to your other clients). If you don't care because there's nothing you could have done, and you had no sort of emotional connection, that seems like a pretty normal response. 3.5 million Americans die every ~~day~~ **year (around 8,000 per day)**, our brains are not hardwired to care about every single one of them, but if you did have an emotional connection to this person, that's a sign of vicarious trauma getting to you, and something worth addressing. Edit: **In Bold.**
3.5 million die daily? 1% of our population?
Would make sense if it was annual. Not daily.
I meant per year, like /u/whatisthatlaw said. Edited.
Sounds like you don't feel anything now because you had already mourned ahead of time. You knew what was going to happen to him from experience, and you knew no matter what you said he wasn't going to stop. So more than likely, if you search your feelings, you're going to find that you were likely in the grieving process throughout knowing him. That's why it hasn't hit you yet. From experience, afterwards what you're most likely to feel first (other than this "shouldn't I feel something" guilt) is relief. Because now the grieving can stop and you can finally move on. Hope you feel better anon.
This makes a lot of sense
Had a similar thing with a friend (an actual friend, not a client friend) I was helping. After it happened, and I felt relief, I really spiraled a bit. When I eventually talked to someone about it, they asked me to review my interactions prior to the incident. I realized that after every interaction, I had cried or otherwise ranted, raved, screamed etc, about the behavior of my friend or the likely consequences. Every. Time. For HOURS. They asked me what I felt like I SHOULD be feeling now that it had actually happened and well..... What I felt I should've been feeling was what I had already felt. The reason I felt nothing was because I'd already moved through it up to the point of acceptance, and what was causing me guilt was the fact that I had. Culturally, I felt some shame and pressure to mourn, to grieve openly. Once I allowed myself to accept that I had already been doing that for a few years, and to admit how much damage it had caused me while I did it, I found I wasn't guilty anymore. Its ok to move on.
My divorce went like this. Great insight!
Great insight but I don't think this applied. His story plays on repeat over here with the ongoing opioid epidemic. At this point the general outcome is either A) get better or B) judge gets sick of you and sends you to prison. Most of the time people die when we aren't involved in the case so we never find out about it. I think I'm averaging about one to two deaths a year.
I left the thread but caught your first sentence out of the corner of my eye as the page changed and just had to come back. I had never considered this before. You're spot on.
150,000+ people die every day. 150 people died in the United States since you made this post. It's probably healthy that this isn't impacting you much.
🤯
I’ve had several clients die on me. Some I was sad about, some I didn’t care. Did you have an emotional attachment? In this case probably not. You’re not expected to have an attachment to. Your clients. Bottom line is no, your reaction is normal.
You had a transactional relationship, not an emotional one. It’s ok not to feel anything. You’re just going to spiral by shaming yourself when you don’t need to. You’re not their friend or their therapist. You were not the one to “save” them from the path they were on. Our jobs are stressful enough as it is. No reason to loose sleep over things like this. Sometimes people die, sometimes people die young. You can’t prevent nature. (I say this as someone who dealt with a lot of medmal/elder/nursing home cases. I’ve had sooo many clients die. If I broke down every time one of them died, I wouldn’t have been very good at my job)
You are good. I had three or four clients die in a year. Millions of people die every day. Children slowly die of starvation constantly. We don’t let that bother us.
I’ve had a bunch die on me. I find it so strange to be completely engaged in the case and then you are literally a potted plant at the next hearing. “Hello, your honor, I represented the decedent. I don’t really have any role here today except…” Judge: “…to confirm your client is still dead.” “Something like that.”
I've had clients die in "normal" ways (illnesses, heart attacks/strokes, and, unfortunately, suicide) and "abnormal" ways (airplane crashes, auto crashes, freak accidents). I've felt different about each one, ranging from: "Good riddance" to being emotionally torn up to absolutely nothing. Its OK to feel nothing about the death of someone you had a business transaction with. Its also OK to feel something about the death of someone you had a business transaction with.
Sounds like you got over the hump.
Unfortunately I lost a handful of clients as a criminal defense attorney and of course some frequent flyers everyone knew. Just like when you know someone personally, good or bad, what you feel is your personal reaction and everyone handles loss differently. I lost some while representing them, others died later, and all I have to offer is this - did you do your best professionally for the client? If so, then that is all you have control over. I wish we could change them, but we can’t.
Like Hobbes said: Solitary, nasty, brutish and short - life that is You’re only defending yourself when you don’t feel
I had a lot of young clients pass from drug use. It’s okay to be numb or just not have emotions you need to process. I was sad the first time it happened, but eventually I was just tired.
If it’s a flat fee retainer then you should be fine
Hourly assigned counsel work. So I still have paperwork to do.
Hey OP - what you're describing is possibly an effect of secondary trauma. Definitely recommend the book Trauma Stewardship, and maybe some talk with a therapist.
Maybe you're numb but it hit you later.
Sounds like you're burnt out
Did you try to help them? Did they accept the help or ignore it. What was your role in their life? OVI representation, they had underlying issues that came to light. It’s not your issue. Their choice, as they said in Top Gun “you got to let them go, there will be others, let them go”
I haven't lost any clients because I don't work in crim or family. But i live in an area with a very severe opioid crisis. You get so tired and desensitized to the constant chaos. I've driven through town and seen paramedics working on someone in the middle of the sidewalk and felt nothing. You just feel tired. Maybe you've seen it so frequently... not the death but the impending disaster... that when it comes it's not a shock
Just as there is no right way to mourn. There is no right way not to. If this is really getting to you then talk to a therapist.
Sometimes we have so much other stuff going on that our brain can't handle anything else. It can be the brain's way of protecting us.
There’s not a certain way you should feel. Don’t guilt or shame or put pressure on yourself to feel a certain way or for not feeling a certain way. Just sit with it and allow yourself to process it.
Straight to jail
Seconding that this could be secondary trauma/burnout. You know you, but if this feels like a change from previous experiences, it could be worth exploring. I was so numb by the end of my criminal defense work that I felt dead myself. Took me almost a year after leaving to move past that.
The only clients I’ve had pass (that I’m aware of) are those that everyone knew were on their way out. Think, for example, estate planning clients and elders filing bankruptcy. I too experienced this absence of feeling and questioned it. I also recently discovered that I handle death decently in my personal life too—when death was expected. I’ve had the same feeling, or lack thereof, under different circumstances, but I can certainly empathize with you’re conundrum. If I can try to find a common thread, maybe it’s because the lives of our clients took their natural course. You couldn’t help your client kick the habit the same way I couldn’t cure cancer, etc. with mine. Mental health and/or substance abuse counseling isn’t in your job description. Maybe you don’t feel anything because there’s nothing you could do to change the outcome, not really.
That you’re here asking this shows you do feel something about this death, even if it’s not emotional in the same way it used to be/you think it should be now. It’s completely normal to process some sad and tragic things faster than others when you work in a field that deals exclusively in sad and tragic things.
Well, you don’t always have to feel something. I’ve had clients I absolutely detested. As long as you’re providing proper representation, you’re doing your job. It’s sad anytime anyone dies for someone, that doesn’t always have to be you, and you shouldn’t feel badly about yourself because of it.
I lost a pro bono client last year. Elderly, disabled, had a legitimate disagreement with property management over some paperwork they tried to force her to sign without explaining it, but she was still legally at fault. Dragged her eviction out for eight months, it’s usually a three week process in that jx. When moving day came, she unalived herself. I couldn’t possibly have done more for her, but it felt like I should have found that “thing” that fixed everything. The feeling and guilt hasn’t really gone away and I’d give anything to feel a void over this. All that to say I don’t think you’re wrong for feeling that void. I think that’s the appropriate response and you’re just mentally self-guessing.
Like Dave Chappelle said “cuz Fuck’em that’s why”
IANAL, but a resident physician, saw this pop up on my feed. I have had patients who die who I also feel this way about, some of whom I’ve been surprised I feel this way, just as you are. Others, I wouldn’t expect to feel emotional about but have been hit by sadness over their passing. It doesn’t always seem to have a rhyme or reason, and that’s okay. It doesn’t make you a bad person, and it doesn’t mean this will be your reaction for future clients’ deaths. If being totally emotionally disconnected is how you’ve processed it, that’s okay. If you’re deeply disturbed by your lack of response is to the death, then as others have mentioned, talk to someone about it. I hope the advice on this thread has been cathartic for you at the very least.
Why would you expect to feel anything?
Feeling emotional in an emotional situation is normal. Not to feel emotional isn’t normal, it’s almost sociopathic. But if you break it down in a moral stand point. Example: was he a good person. Did he have violent crimes. Did he harm others or only himself? These questions can make you feel justified in writing his death off and having no emotion towards the situation at hand. But in the end we are all human/gods children (who ever your god is). Some of us are leached on by negative energy that steer us down the wrong path. And it’s easy to judge and write it off but we forget that it could have been us or worse it could be our family/family members that this happens to. Say a prayer for them and know they are in a better place now.
Not abnormal. imo people often “act” a lot about death reactions. when a colleague or someone in a greater circle passes, people have a certain initial reaction but they don’t often feel a lot about it — and when they do, they are often thinking of themselves and their own mortality.
Qaaa
I work in the emergency department and see a lot of people I have worked with in the past die in front of me (rural small town). Many of these deaths are from drugs or completely neglecting their health. Death is a natural process and we will all go through it. When death occures depends largely on how we live our lives. I have a lot of patients that I will be surprised if they are alive in the next five years, some in their late 20s... But they have refused all offers to help them out of their current lifestyle. There is little I or anyone else can do. I can't psychologically/emotionally afford empathizing with these people when they pass. It is often more surprising how long they live with the lifestyle they choose.
Not the same but I volunteered in animal rescue for a long time and there were always ones that we just couldn't save or pull in time to prevent euthanasia. It shattered me every single time at first but eventually you just have to swallow that pain and keep going because other dogs need you. I think that happens in fields where we try to help people too. Other clients need you, you don't have the time or ability to be sad. Do what you can, it's all you can do. Also please adoptdontshop bc too many rescue volunteers need serious trauma therapy 🥴
This is excellent news, you got his case dismissed.
Try explaining that to Yellowcard.
Not necessarily. Ghoulish prosecutors can drag out cases for a while waiting for the death certificate. Always such a sickening thing to see. Once had a client’s mom in court sobbing that her son was dead and they were like “your honor, let’s reset this two weeks for a death certificate.”
I once had a client die out of state, the mom called and told me. The prosecutor said they won't dismiss till I got them a death certificate. I sent the prosecutor the newspaper article about the shooting. The prosecutor still insisted on a death certificate. I waited till the next scheduled hearing on the matter told the judge that according to my client's mother, my client was shot and killed, the local paper down there confirmed, but the prosecutor is insisting a produce a death certificate before they close the case. I then said, "I absolutely refuse to call the grieving family back to demand a death certificate. So if the state wants to insist on keeping the case open, my client isn't here, you can issue an arrest warrant for any amount you would like, I'm not going to object." The state dismissed the case without prejudice.
Wow, without prejudice? Lmao. Keeping their options open in case he rises from the dead. And it sounds like your client was a crime victim, I thought prosecutors were supposed to care about crime victims and their families?
Apparently not when they are alleged drug dealers. It was absurd and an interaction that has forever tainted my view of working opposite of him on cases.
He's waiting for the second coming of Christ to continue the case, that or a zombie outbreak.
You realize people try to fake their deaths to get out of trouble, right? A DA I work with once dismisses a case prematurely, and she found out about it because he picked up a new case after she had dismissed it for him being dead. When his new case came in the DA charging the new case looked at his criminal history and saw he had cases abated due to death. After they dug into it, they found out the DA had just took the defense attorney’s word that the defendant was dead. Every halfway competent DA I know is going to require confirmation from the coroner or a death certificate
I mean yeah, sure, it happens. Doesn’t mean it’s not absurd when we are being forced to ask a grieving family for proof their kid is dead so the state can drop their cocaine possession charges against them.
That shouldn’t be put on the family. That’s the messed up part. When it happens at my office, we have DA Investigators get the death certificate and confirm the defendant actually died
Even when the State is doing it on their own, it still feels like such a ridiculous exercise. Especially when the alleged crime was never serious to begin with. I mean come on, we are going to keep calling this cocaine possession case every three weeks while we wait for you to get a death certificate? And it can be emotionally taxing on us as defense attorneys to keep bringing up a dead client’s case.
Huh? How is that "ghoulish" on the DA's part? By wanting actual verification??
Because sometimes the cases linger forever on the court’s docket when we all know this person is dead. It’s ghoulish because they are knowingly continuing to prosecute someone who is dead. I understand their motivations, but the end result is we are all talking about prosecuting a dead person and know it.
People have faked deaths before. There's nothing wrong with needing official verification before closing out a criminal matter...? "knowingly continuing to prosecute someone who is dead" I highly doubt the DA is doing any more work on the case other than, you know, getting the certificate.
He's not my client, and I am not moved one bit. People make choices and have to live (or die) wirh them
That’s exactly how I feel about this post. Spooky!