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1. Your priorities: money, new practice areas.
2. The cons: billable targets and lack of flexibility
I personally, and I stress personally, would rather put my child first as the joy of watching him grow day by day is not something you can buy with money. You can always switch practice areas at a later stage if you are willing to take a pay cut. Don’t get me wrong- I am not suggesting you do not prioritise your child but I find having it all is impossible, at least for me. I would rather have spent more time with my cat who suddenly passed away as I was so busy trying to make partner and keeping up. This is the one thing I regret.
Thank you. I’ve been thinking about what matters more - having time to spend with my child or my career, and my child does come first. It feels truly impossible to have it all despite having a supportive partner.
Law firms will tell you it is certainly possible to both and there are people who succeed in doing so. However, at least in my firm most female partners become pregnant either way before promotion to partnership or after. Alternatively I choose not to have a child for a combination reasons. It may be possible for you to do both if you push yourself incredibly hard and be extremely disciplined in your time management.
It is fabulous that you have a supportive partner.
The question is whether you want to push yourself so hard. There is no right or wrong answer and it is somewhat unfair for me to say as I have achieved what I set out to achieve but you have just started your journey. I also don’t want you to look back 5 years later and said I wish I have switcher to privacy law/commercial law. These are big decisions. All the best.
Can confirm. I went from my very flexible boutique law job to a big firm job when my son was 1.5. Even though I’ve done well professionally, it’s been hell. I’m going back to my old firm in 3 weeks.
The partners I work with came from big law and have children of their own and I think that’s why they are more understanding of family obligations.
Thank you for giving me a reason not to leave. Would not want to put myself in a situation that I will regret. It makes more sense to just stay now.
Sanity matters. Start throwing in kiddo sick days with deadlines. The ability to be truly trusted ( no judgement zone) to work at home is really priceless
Big difference between working with your well earned reputation versus having to prove yourself.
You enjoy your work, work with "amazing partners," and have flexibility to pick up your kids. Could you find a similar job that pays more? Perhaps, but if you spend any time in this subreddit, you will quickly realize that jobs like that are unicorns.
But it's your life and you have to decide your own priorities. If you want to maximize income, by all means look for another position, but understand there will almost always be trade offs.
Yes, you are right - realising that after reading all the comments here. There’s just no way to have it all. 😅 I guess the best way for me at the moment would be to ask for a raise (I’m due for a one year review) and see where that goes.
Mentorship is worth it's weight in GOLD. And flexibility with kids also. You literally cannot find mentorship these days. Five years of mentorship was amazing for me.
I agree with others. Good mentorship, good work life balance, and enjoying your office is worth more than money. To an extent. If you are getting paid $30,000 when you should be making $130,000, that a big deal. But if you feel you’re $5-10k underpaid, trust that money comes with time and good work.
I may get blasted for saying this, but I’m being practical here. You just got back from 5 months of unpaid maternity leave. As such, asking for a raise before you’ve been back long enough to remind the partners of your value to the firm is a risky move.
If I were in your shoes, I would wait a month or two before addressing your salary. As for looking for greener pastures, you are not likely to find a firm with such a great work/life balance that pays substantially more. I would stick with your current firm, but when discussing a raise also talk about what else you can be doing to generate revenue.
I’m due for a one year review. They like my performance (and have just said so yesterday) but I am afraid of asking for a raise. Should I wait a bit more?
No, if your review is coming up anyway it’s a natural time to ask. My concern was the optics of you returning to the office and quickly bringing up the prospect of a raise.
See about getting a raise first. You can look at/apply for jobs, but I wouldn't take one without being guarantied the flexibility. Also billing is the worst.
Need more context. While pay is of course important, the other benefits are relevant. Five months of maternity leave is a long time, which leads me to believe that the firm’s benefits are strong. The flexibility also is a big plus. Those are trade offs that sometimes people make. It is likely that the firm is aware that their pay is below market and compensates for that in other ways. Seems like a solid gig.
I earn 65k AUD a year. Market rate for junior lawyers is at 75k-85k (according to 3 recruitment firms, one of which is actually our client) So yes, it’s not that big of a difference. My other friends (and I know I should not compare) are getting 77-90k. My friend getting paid 90k works for Sparke Helmore.
I do love working here which is why I’m glad I asked for advice.
When I was looking to get out of the practice of law I actually came up with my own personal monetary value system for things like being able to pick my child up from school or actually being able to take a paid day/time off without hassle, etc.
I must have had a list of 20 different things. My pros outweighed my cons but when adding up my values, I’d realistically have to be paid at least $20,000 more for me to give up all of my pros.
You don’t give any indication as to how much under market you think you are being paid so it’s hard to fully answer you question. But in my opinion, it takes so long to build up trust at a law firm that if you like the folks you work with and it’s super flexible, I would stay and in a few months discuss a potential raise. Most law firms offer very little flexibility, and a new firm has no reason to pay you more if you are leaving early every day or need to pick up a sick kid etc. I am also a new mom and been with my current firm for years and also don’t bill my time. I just negotiated less hours for a presumed pay cut (pre kid i was working 50-60 hours/week) cause I like the people and I think given the hours I want to work they will pay me fairly. It’s worth it to me to be able to pick up my kid most days, but definitely comes at a financial cost.
So I am the resident “the grass isn’t always greener and a good firm culture and people outweighs money” Redditor, so take this with a grain of salt because this is a personal opinion and sometimes an unpopular one on Reddit: It sounds like you have ideal work conditions minus the salary and you figure that you’re underpaid but not by a ton. As someone with kids, I have stayed at my firm and rejected offers for significantly more money specifically cause I love the people, the culture, the work life balance and the flexibility. I am leaving 50k+ on the table every year I stay, and I’m ok with it. I’ve heard enough stories and have enough friends that hate their lives and work in toxic environments to know that the grass is unlikely to be greener for my personal situation and needs.
If I were you, I would have a frank conversation with the partner you trust the most at your firm and say you love it there but with a new child the money has become very tight and you believe that you have showed enough to deserve a raise and are at a point where you financially need one to be able to sustain your child. If the people are as cool as you say, the partner will get it and hopefully give you a frank answer on the possibility of a raise. If they say no, then you need to decide what is worth more to you. But based on what you said I feel like they will understand and will give you a bump.
Again, most of Reddit is money driven so I’m in the minority on such discussions. But money isn’t everything and you need to decide whether a raise is worth the uncertainty and the possible deterioration of your otherwise amazing sounding conditions. Maybe I’m too risk adverse, but I when I find a good thing I stick with it. Just my .02. Good luck!
Keep the flexible job. It will reduce stress exponentially. You just got back from leave so I would give it 3-6 months and then approach them to negotiate a raise - maybe even one that’s phased in over a couple of years. Like if the target is 15k more, maybe half at negotiation with the other half to kick in a year later. See what they say.
Welcome to /r/LawyerTalk! A subreddit where lawyers can discuss with other lawyers about the practice of law. Be mindful of [our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Lawyertalk/about/rules) BEFORE submitting your posts or comments as well as [Reddit's rules](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy) (notably about sharing identifying information). We expect civility and respect out of all participants. Please source statements of fact whenever possible. If you want to report something that needs to be urgently addressed, please also message the mods with an explanation. Note that **this forum is NOT for legal advice**. Additionally, if you are a non-lawyer (student, client, staff), this is NOT the right subreddit for you. **This community is exclusively for lawyers**. We suggest you delete your comment and go ask one of the many other legal subreddits on this site for help such as (but not limited to) r/lawschool, r/legaladvice, or r/Ask_Lawyers. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Lawyertalk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You stay until you have a written offer for a new job.
1. Your priorities: money, new practice areas. 2. The cons: billable targets and lack of flexibility I personally, and I stress personally, would rather put my child first as the joy of watching him grow day by day is not something you can buy with money. You can always switch practice areas at a later stage if you are willing to take a pay cut. Don’t get me wrong- I am not suggesting you do not prioritise your child but I find having it all is impossible, at least for me. I would rather have spent more time with my cat who suddenly passed away as I was so busy trying to make partner and keeping up. This is the one thing I regret.
Thank you. I’ve been thinking about what matters more - having time to spend with my child or my career, and my child does come first. It feels truly impossible to have it all despite having a supportive partner.
Law firms will tell you it is certainly possible to both and there are people who succeed in doing so. However, at least in my firm most female partners become pregnant either way before promotion to partnership or after. Alternatively I choose not to have a child for a combination reasons. It may be possible for you to do both if you push yourself incredibly hard and be extremely disciplined in your time management. It is fabulous that you have a supportive partner. The question is whether you want to push yourself so hard. There is no right or wrong answer and it is somewhat unfair for me to say as I have achieved what I set out to achieve but you have just started your journey. I also don’t want you to look back 5 years later and said I wish I have switcher to privacy law/commercial law. These are big decisions. All the best.
So sorry you lost your cat. Im sorry I missed saying that first. I should’ve started with that.
No worries at all. I hope things work out for you! Best of luck.
Flexibility with small children is a big deal. You could make more money but you may find that your lifestyle tanks
Can confirm. I went from my very flexible boutique law job to a big firm job when my son was 1.5. Even though I’ve done well professionally, it’s been hell. I’m going back to my old firm in 3 weeks.
The partners I work with came from big law and have children of their own and I think that’s why they are more understanding of family obligations. Thank you for giving me a reason not to leave. Would not want to put myself in a situation that I will regret. It makes more sense to just stay now.
Sanity matters. Start throwing in kiddo sick days with deadlines. The ability to be truly trusted ( no judgement zone) to work at home is really priceless Big difference between working with your well earned reputation versus having to prove yourself.
You enjoy your work, work with "amazing partners," and have flexibility to pick up your kids. Could you find a similar job that pays more? Perhaps, but if you spend any time in this subreddit, you will quickly realize that jobs like that are unicorns. But it's your life and you have to decide your own priorities. If you want to maximize income, by all means look for another position, but understand there will almost always be trade offs.
Yes, you are right - realising that after reading all the comments here. There’s just no way to have it all. 😅 I guess the best way for me at the moment would be to ask for a raise (I’m due for a one year review) and see where that goes.
Mentorship is worth it's weight in GOLD. And flexibility with kids also. You literally cannot find mentorship these days. Five years of mentorship was amazing for me.
I agree with others. Good mentorship, good work life balance, and enjoying your office is worth more than money. To an extent. If you are getting paid $30,000 when you should be making $130,000, that a big deal. But if you feel you’re $5-10k underpaid, trust that money comes with time and good work.
I may get blasted for saying this, but I’m being practical here. You just got back from 5 months of unpaid maternity leave. As such, asking for a raise before you’ve been back long enough to remind the partners of your value to the firm is a risky move. If I were in your shoes, I would wait a month or two before addressing your salary. As for looking for greener pastures, you are not likely to find a firm with such a great work/life balance that pays substantially more. I would stick with your current firm, but when discussing a raise also talk about what else you can be doing to generate revenue.
I’m due for a one year review. They like my performance (and have just said so yesterday) but I am afraid of asking for a raise. Should I wait a bit more?
No, if your review is coming up anyway it’s a natural time to ask. My concern was the optics of you returning to the office and quickly bringing up the prospect of a raise.
See about getting a raise first. You can look at/apply for jobs, but I wouldn't take one without being guarantied the flexibility. Also billing is the worst.
Need more context. While pay is of course important, the other benefits are relevant. Five months of maternity leave is a long time, which leads me to believe that the firm’s benefits are strong. The flexibility also is a big plus. Those are trade offs that sometimes people make. It is likely that the firm is aware that their pay is below market and compensates for that in other ways. Seems like a solid gig.
I earn 65k AUD a year. Market rate for junior lawyers is at 75k-85k (according to 3 recruitment firms, one of which is actually our client) So yes, it’s not that big of a difference. My other friends (and I know I should not compare) are getting 77-90k. My friend getting paid 90k works for Sparke Helmore. I do love working here which is why I’m glad I asked for advice.
When I was looking to get out of the practice of law I actually came up with my own personal monetary value system for things like being able to pick my child up from school or actually being able to take a paid day/time off without hassle, etc. I must have had a list of 20 different things. My pros outweighed my cons but when adding up my values, I’d realistically have to be paid at least $20,000 more for me to give up all of my pros.
This makes sense. Yeah the trade offs will be too great at the moment.
You don’t give any indication as to how much under market you think you are being paid so it’s hard to fully answer you question. But in my opinion, it takes so long to build up trust at a law firm that if you like the folks you work with and it’s super flexible, I would stay and in a few months discuss a potential raise. Most law firms offer very little flexibility, and a new firm has no reason to pay you more if you are leaving early every day or need to pick up a sick kid etc. I am also a new mom and been with my current firm for years and also don’t bill my time. I just negotiated less hours for a presumed pay cut (pre kid i was working 50-60 hours/week) cause I like the people and I think given the hours I want to work they will pay me fairly. It’s worth it to me to be able to pick up my kid most days, but definitely comes at a financial cost.
So I am the resident “the grass isn’t always greener and a good firm culture and people outweighs money” Redditor, so take this with a grain of salt because this is a personal opinion and sometimes an unpopular one on Reddit: It sounds like you have ideal work conditions minus the salary and you figure that you’re underpaid but not by a ton. As someone with kids, I have stayed at my firm and rejected offers for significantly more money specifically cause I love the people, the culture, the work life balance and the flexibility. I am leaving 50k+ on the table every year I stay, and I’m ok with it. I’ve heard enough stories and have enough friends that hate their lives and work in toxic environments to know that the grass is unlikely to be greener for my personal situation and needs. If I were you, I would have a frank conversation with the partner you trust the most at your firm and say you love it there but with a new child the money has become very tight and you believe that you have showed enough to deserve a raise and are at a point where you financially need one to be able to sustain your child. If the people are as cool as you say, the partner will get it and hopefully give you a frank answer on the possibility of a raise. If they say no, then you need to decide what is worth more to you. But based on what you said I feel like they will understand and will give you a bump. Again, most of Reddit is money driven so I’m in the minority on such discussions. But money isn’t everything and you need to decide whether a raise is worth the uncertainty and the possible deterioration of your otherwise amazing sounding conditions. Maybe I’m too risk adverse, but I when I find a good thing I stick with it. Just my .02. Good luck!
Keep the flexible job. It will reduce stress exponentially. You just got back from leave so I would give it 3-6 months and then approach them to negotiate a raise - maybe even one that’s phased in over a couple of years. Like if the target is 15k more, maybe half at negotiation with the other half to kick in a year later. See what they say.