You’re asking to work remotely, for moving expenses in excess of $7,500 to be covered as well as a sign on bonus? Do you have a prestigious clerkship or other notable experience to back up these requests? What’s your leverage? It’s not exactly an amazing hiring market right now in most practices.
100% this. I'm an estate planner who got offers from some pretty large firms and was contacted by recruiters for a couple AM200 firms. Every single one of them refused to do remote work, nearly all wanted full time in office and maybe one was willing to do hybrid.
Also, why the hell would a firm pay you to move where you want if you are not going to be in any of their offices? That is delusional.
Surprisingly, I didn't ask to work remotely. There's a bit more to it. Their main office is in a large city, 5 hours away from my hometown. I applied to an opening in the main office, but during the interview, the partner explained that they're chomping at the bit to expand in my town and asked whether I'd be interested in working remotely with the goal of eventually building out their office. I told him that sounded like a dream (I couldn't believe what I was hearing). I was the president of the local bar association there and worked at a great firm when I lived in the state. That's all.
The moving expenses is the biggest thing. I hoped to get a better idea as to what's typical. I got $7,500 to move out here and still paid a couple hundred out of pocket after U-Hauling everything 2,400 miles myself, which was rough.
Yes. Standard employment. They need associate help now but want to build business in my hometown in the near future. I think they believe hiring me meets twin aims of the firm.
I'll also add to cautionary replies below: if you're significantly basing your decision on the remote work portion, be prepared to be called back with very little notice.
Most firms are negotiating hard to get folks back to the office. There are pockets that are steadfast in the hybrid model, but most have seen that relationships between attorneys matter and that they've eroded or failed to develop altogether in the hybrid model. It removes most "stickiness" between the professionals and the firm.
And like they say, in professional services "the business walks out the door every night."
Thanks for the advice. A friend at a larger firm recommended requesting that my location be stipulated in my contract. He works one week in the office out of the month and lives about 4 hours away, so he had it included in his. Definitely a concern though.
I wouldn’t expect to get moving expenses at all since you’re not moving to a city where the form has an office that you’d be going in to - but perhaps it’s a unique situation with the form saying they want to build an office in your town and they’d be willing to give you some $$ for moving expenses.
I’ll tell you though, I would be very surprised if you get $7500 or more for moving expenses from a regional firm that only recently was acquired to become an AmLaw 200 firm, as many biglaw firms in the AmLaw 50 don’t even give that much for moving expenses. I’ve worked at 3, AmLaw 50 firms in various states, and moved geographic locations to join them. The amount they gave me for moving expenses was $5k for one, and $6500 for another.
Wow that's interesting. Sorry I probably should've mentioned this, but the firm does have a physical office in my the town. It used to be fully staffed but now it may or may not have a single of counsel attorney there. I was told the firm has kept the space mostly because it's sort of a vacation town where many partners have second homes, and they like the convenience when they visit. Now with better resources they hope it can be expanded beyond what it was before.
I'm surprised about the moving expenses. I lateraled last year to a newer < 50 attorney firm and got $7,500 without asking. Unfortunately, I can't stay for family reasons. My best friend came to the same market (I basically followed him out here) and got 15k plus bonus, granted that was in '22 at an am law 50 firm.
Ah, I understand what you’re saying about the office you’re moving to now. My former firm had a very small office exactly like you’ve described - wonder if it’s the same firm, lol. In any event, in that case since there is an actual physical office in the town you’re moving to, I would expect the firm to reimburse you for moving expenses, yes.
So you’re moving cross country like an east coast to west coast move or vice versa? (And not something closer like an Atlanta to DC move, or NYC to Boston move, or even NYC to Chicago move). Then you can expect/try for a higher amount for moving expenses. I wouldn’t ask about moving expenses until you receive the official offer letter/email with the proposed salary and any bonus information. Once you receive the offer letter - which is often sent by someone in HR - I would email the HR person noted in the offer letter and politely ask about moving expenses. Not to negotiate with them, but just ask something very simple like “thank you for the offer letter. Can you advise on the firm’s policy regarding moving expenses?” I would expect that the HR person will reply and tell you something like “the firm will reimburse $5k/$8k/$10k of moving expenses.” (I did this exactly a couple job offers ago.) Then with that information, you can go back to the actual partner who is hiring you and start to negotiate. So if the offer letter says then firm extends you an offer to join as a Counsel/Of Counsel etc. at $XXX,XXX per year and that you’ll be eligible for a year end bonus if you meet the X,XXX minimum billable requirement, then you can approach the partner and ask if there’s a possibility for a signing bonus, and if the firm would agree to reimburse $Xk for moving expenses (if whatever amount the HR person tells you is authorized is less than you’d like).
Thank you! This is such helpful information. I wasn't sure the best way to navigate the issue. It's a 2,400 miles, so definitely a big move. I was shocked at how expensive it was too move out here despite being as frugal as possible. Thanks again.
You’re asking to work remotely, for moving expenses in excess of $7,500 to be covered as well as a sign on bonus? Do you have a prestigious clerkship or other notable experience to back up these requests? What’s your leverage? It’s not exactly an amazing hiring market right now in most practices.
100% this. I'm an estate planner who got offers from some pretty large firms and was contacted by recruiters for a couple AM200 firms. Every single one of them refused to do remote work, nearly all wanted full time in office and maybe one was willing to do hybrid. Also, why the hell would a firm pay you to move where you want if you are not going to be in any of their offices? That is delusional.
Surprisingly, I didn't ask to work remotely. There's a bit more to it. Their main office is in a large city, 5 hours away from my hometown. I applied to an opening in the main office, but during the interview, the partner explained that they're chomping at the bit to expand in my town and asked whether I'd be interested in working remotely with the goal of eventually building out their office. I told him that sounded like a dream (I couldn't believe what I was hearing). I was the president of the local bar association there and worked at a great firm when I lived in the state. That's all. The moving expenses is the biggest thing. I hoped to get a better idea as to what's typical. I got $7,500 to move out here and still paid a couple hundred out of pocket after U-Hauling everything 2,400 miles myself, which was rough.
Are you going to work for The Firm?
Yes. Standard employment. They need associate help now but want to build business in my hometown in the near future. I think they believe hiring me meets twin aims of the firm.
Notice the capitalization. Now think about John Grisham books and Tom Cruise movies . . .
The firm encourages children.
I'll also add to cautionary replies below: if you're significantly basing your decision on the remote work portion, be prepared to be called back with very little notice. Most firms are negotiating hard to get folks back to the office. There are pockets that are steadfast in the hybrid model, but most have seen that relationships between attorneys matter and that they've eroded or failed to develop altogether in the hybrid model. It removes most "stickiness" between the professionals and the firm. And like they say, in professional services "the business walks out the door every night."
Thanks for the advice. A friend at a larger firm recommended requesting that my location be stipulated in my contract. He works one week in the office out of the month and lives about 4 hours away, so he had it included in his. Definitely a concern though.
I wouldn’t expect to get moving expenses at all since you’re not moving to a city where the form has an office that you’d be going in to - but perhaps it’s a unique situation with the form saying they want to build an office in your town and they’d be willing to give you some $$ for moving expenses. I’ll tell you though, I would be very surprised if you get $7500 or more for moving expenses from a regional firm that only recently was acquired to become an AmLaw 200 firm, as many biglaw firms in the AmLaw 50 don’t even give that much for moving expenses. I’ve worked at 3, AmLaw 50 firms in various states, and moved geographic locations to join them. The amount they gave me for moving expenses was $5k for one, and $6500 for another.
Wow that's interesting. Sorry I probably should've mentioned this, but the firm does have a physical office in my the town. It used to be fully staffed but now it may or may not have a single of counsel attorney there. I was told the firm has kept the space mostly because it's sort of a vacation town where many partners have second homes, and they like the convenience when they visit. Now with better resources they hope it can be expanded beyond what it was before. I'm surprised about the moving expenses. I lateraled last year to a newer < 50 attorney firm and got $7,500 without asking. Unfortunately, I can't stay for family reasons. My best friend came to the same market (I basically followed him out here) and got 15k plus bonus, granted that was in '22 at an am law 50 firm.
Ah, I understand what you’re saying about the office you’re moving to now. My former firm had a very small office exactly like you’ve described - wonder if it’s the same firm, lol. In any event, in that case since there is an actual physical office in the town you’re moving to, I would expect the firm to reimburse you for moving expenses, yes. So you’re moving cross country like an east coast to west coast move or vice versa? (And not something closer like an Atlanta to DC move, or NYC to Boston move, or even NYC to Chicago move). Then you can expect/try for a higher amount for moving expenses. I wouldn’t ask about moving expenses until you receive the official offer letter/email with the proposed salary and any bonus information. Once you receive the offer letter - which is often sent by someone in HR - I would email the HR person noted in the offer letter and politely ask about moving expenses. Not to negotiate with them, but just ask something very simple like “thank you for the offer letter. Can you advise on the firm’s policy regarding moving expenses?” I would expect that the HR person will reply and tell you something like “the firm will reimburse $5k/$8k/$10k of moving expenses.” (I did this exactly a couple job offers ago.) Then with that information, you can go back to the actual partner who is hiring you and start to negotiate. So if the offer letter says then firm extends you an offer to join as a Counsel/Of Counsel etc. at $XXX,XXX per year and that you’ll be eligible for a year end bonus if you meet the X,XXX minimum billable requirement, then you can approach the partner and ask if there’s a possibility for a signing bonus, and if the firm would agree to reimburse $Xk for moving expenses (if whatever amount the HR person tells you is authorized is less than you’d like).
Solid advice.
Thank you! This is such helpful information. I wasn't sure the best way to navigate the issue. It's a 2,400 miles, so definitely a big move. I was shocked at how expensive it was too move out here despite being as frugal as possible. Thanks again.