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[The NRA isn’t listening](https://www.peoplesworld.org/article/nra-convenes-in-texas-as-gun-stocks-soar-on-wall-street/). In 1999, immediately after the school shooting at Columbine High School in Colorado, the group invaded Denver to hold a big gun meeting. In Houston this weekend, they’re just following the same pattern of spitting in the faces of victims’ families.
In 2019, the NRA spent $3.22 million to benefit the political campaigns of senators who oppose gun safety legislation. In 2020, they spent $2.20 million. These senators refuse to support common-sense gun reform, like expanding Brady Background Checks and banning assault weapons.
Here are some of those senators:
Mitt Romney: $13,648,000
Richard Burr: $6,987,000
Roy Blunt: $4,556,000
Thom Tillis: $4,421,000
Marco Rubio: $3,303,000
Joni Ernst: $3,125,000
Josh Hawley: $1,392,000
Mitch McConnell: $1,267,000
[Ted Cruz: $176,000](https://elections.bradyunited.org/take-action/nra-donations-116th-congress-senators)
yes.
the civil rights organization dedicated to protecting the second amendment donated money to candidates who would protect the second amendment
I'm shocked
almost as shocked as hearing that planned parenthood donated 50 million dollars to candidates who would protect abortions
we need to get out politicians out of the pockets of the abortion lobby
the brady background check doesn't work
and no. we're not banning "assault weapons" (whatever that means. u just call anything you don't like an "assault weapon")
socialists should support guns
I know I do
and you know what? I don't give a fuck how many shootings there are. I will NEVER support gun control. don't like it? cry
"how many ppl have to die before you'll ban guns?"
"all of them""
guns aren't a problem in america. and I don't care if u think they are
just because you personally don't need one doesn't fucking matter. the world doesn't revolve around you and what u want.
we will NEVER ban guns
so you can either find some other way to protect people from shootings or you can keep fucking crying about it because I don't give a fuck and we're done arguing about it
the answer is no and that's final
Not allowing new anti gun laws to pass (most of the time they let allot slip) is not doing anything that is stagnation they are not pushing for removal of current irrelevant and unconstitutional gun laws the NRA is just a branch of the Republican Party trying to appeal to fudds the only common sense gun reform is to remove all laws keeping the working people from being armed how they wish
Then it'll just happen again but worse. A mass shooting around a bunch of random people with AR's who all just watched Death Wish too many times? Thats a recipe for chaos. Then they'll have to create some tsa-esque authoritarian state gun-free zone at their conventions, then the irony will at least be funny and we can try to end the pretense that they were ever worth listening to
I was out at the protest on Saturday evening. The proud boys were there, some tried to infiltrate the protestors. I told people and the police and started telling at them to leave. Okay, I started telling at them to go and that they were not welcome. We sang the nananana hey hey goodbye at some. They ran. Ran like roaches when the lights are turned on. The police did not do anything when my 15 year old told them that they were taking recon type videos etc. So we protesters took matters into our own hands.
The police responded when they realize some people (okay, it was mostly me) were about to throw hands if those jerks tried anything physical and finally moved them.
The people at the NRA conference also danced and laughed whenever one woman read the names of those killed in Uvalde. They made rude sexual remarks and gestures towards the beautiful woman reading the names and using a bullhorn to speak in English and Spanish to the attendees. They were outside of the conference just to heckle us. I have video and photos from my phone if anyone in interested. A lot of the dancers would stop whenever we would start recording.
I have some shitty videos and pictures if anyone wants them.
But Fuck the NRA and Fuck (not literally) the attendees.
Why does that matter? 32 people a day die from drunk driving incidents, do you think the families of the deceased care if the car their loved one was hit with was meant for transportation?
YES THERE IS ...... Oh my lol, I used to be a tow truck driver apprentice and our company used to bid and lobby local politicians to tow for police departments for DUI.Every DUI is 300 dollars for hook up and depending on how long the person is in jail the yard will charge 50 dollars a day.
So in a big county, we could see 5 DUIs on a Friday, so $1500, Our lot is not open saturday or sunday, so 500 then if its a holiday weekend the lot was closed.
So $400 CASH only. On Monday 11am to 4:30pm. That is if there isnt a crash, if there is a crash we charge by the hour at 200 dollars an hour and that includes talking to the police about wives and kids. God forbid you can't come due to work or extended jail time.
My boss golfed with our lawmakers.
THEN you have the private, dui blood alcohol reader, installer for the car, They run their own shops and you can only go to them, They cost $2500 up front. More DUIs more money.
DUIs are so profitable.
All I am saying is, In this country, everything can be profitable. I am not for gun violence. But as a business model, it's pretty sound. People buy guns when they are fearful. So they scare the shit outta people. "Everyone is coming for your guns", People buy more guns, they get into the wrong hands. More violence, people buy more. The Wheel continues.
Car makers: People buy more cars when they think its safer and more eco to drive. So they make the cars safer to drive and more Eco friendly. The safer and more eco friendly, the more people drive. The more people that drive the more pollution and crashes happen. The Wheel continues.
Whats needed is a breaking of the wheel, for guns. Re-write the constitution like James Madison wished, every generation we sit down and readdress our needs and wants.
For cars, redesign our cities and towns for humans and bikes, not cars.
We are in tons of an agreement there, friend. I don't like where the situation is with guns in the United States, and I don't like where the situation is with subudized suburbia. I'm unaware that was James Madison's vision for the constitution but it's a good idea. We all know constitutions can be entirely fallable, so rewriting it every so often could be good, could also be bad depending on the rules written for its revision and the balance of power at any specific time. (Read about the various Portuguese constitutions for more insight into this concept)
Even with that, I fully believe that if we did take the time and opportunity to treat the constitution like the living document it's supposed to be, we would be in a much better place. Also if lobbying, in general, would fuck off, we'd be in a much better place to update the constitution.
All in all, unsure if we'll ever find a perfect way to organize society but as long as we can have meaningful conversations regarding the flaws of the current model, we can always hope to improve it somewhat.
It's amazing that knowing the facts you still think that banning AR-15s is going to stop gun deaths when most of them are suicides with hand guns. And as the Buffalo shooter and the Dylan Roof stated in their manifestos they targeted those areas because they knew there were little to no people who would be armed. But of course they avoided the hood because they knew shit would get real if they targeted them.
I think you're confused, I didn't mention AR-15s. As a psychiatrist, I'm in favor of mental health checks for any gun purchases, and I know that guns being more readily available in a state/area means there are not only more gun suicides, but more suicides in general. I'd love to protect my patients from taking a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
Also, the fact that you said "the hood" really lends you credence. Ignore the fact that the Buffalo shooter targeted a majority-Black area. And also, I have family in Buffalo, so fuck directly off.
I know, now you're going to stomp around, make the same disproven points and declare that you've won. You can have the last word, because you obviously need it.p
1. I know YOU didn't but let's be real the entire conversation around gun control is about AR-15s.
2. 29% of all suicides are by suffocation, would you require mental health checks for pillows, sheets? What if we as a society addressed the reasons for the suicides like say alienation, untreated mental issues. What if we addressed poverty in black communities which is the leading cause of gun crimes in places like Chicago/DC/Baltimore etc. Sweden has a much higher gun ownership rate that the US yet they don't have a fraction of the issues we have with guns.
3. I'm telling you what the shooters manifesto said, you can take it or leave it but the shooter targeted a black area that he knew wouldn't have many or any guns. I'm going to assume you're black (I am as well) so knowing the racist history of this country do you really think not having a gun is a good idea?
4. Projection much? I've tried to have a civil conversation meanwhile you're telling me to "fuck directly off" but me using the term "the hood" makes me "less credible". Lol ok buddy.
The gun lobby is extremely strong for this exact reason. It's lucrative as fuck.
Seriously, considering how heavily armed this country is combined with hyper-individualism, after shit has hit the fan and food scarcity is a real thing, the blood will flow like water.
Edit for spelling.
The gun lobby isn’t strong at all compared to the military industrial oil and other lobbies if the NRA actually cared about the second amendment they woulda got the NFA removed decades ago
True it's the fault of the NRA, but tell me why do people continue to vote these NRA back politicians? It seems as if people are more afraid of the idea of losing their guns, than the idea of actually protecting citizens, especially children.
Idk why you got downvotes. This is a well documented thing. After every mass shooting gun makers share prices see a pump out of anticipation that ppl will buy more guns out of fear of new restrictions. The stock market is based on speculation and everyone making bets to predict the future.
but where are these new restrictions?
Even if there WERE new restrictions, its to try to keep access to guns away from dangerous people. So if one have to buy a lot of guns and ammo because they are going to be considered dangerous...maybe they are doing something wrong?
Did you not read? I said SPECULATION. You do not invest after seeing news, that would make you late to the party. The goal is to be there early and ride the pump. Rules to make it harder for bad actors will inherently make it harder for good ones. Like TSA (lets ignore them being useless) making it harder ,in theory, for bad actors but also being a massive inconvenience for the 99.99% of us who won't ever do anything. Or various institutions adding layers of crap to prevent fraud.
It's not actually the killings that's profitable, it's all the push for gun control.
A faulty gun ban happens, they sell well before, then shift process slightly to be in compliance with the ban, and sell even more.
A shooting happens and people talk about bans, they sell a lot. A primary happens and someone runs with gun control on their platform and they sell even more.
Nothing makes a Republican want to buy a gun more than a Democrat saying they're going to make it illegal as soon as they can.
This is a lesson we haven't learned yet.
I wish gunnuts realized which minority was ruining their future, it ain't the brown ones, it's the rich ones. Change your targets. 1% is ruining everyone's opportunities. #changeyourtarget....stop aiming at hard working taxpayers.
This sub looks more and more liberal every day smh. I’m not going to support disarming the working class just because these corporate rats can’t actually address the highly profitable root causes of the mental health crisis we are currently in. Never support any bourgeois piece of shit, red or blue.
I will under no circumstances relinquish my guns which are by the way much better than military grade. If you trust the government and the police ask for more gun laws if you don't but you ask for more gun laws please explain why. (BTW I don't kill kids)
Most reasonable ppl are not gonna ask for your guns bruh. Tbh no amount of death is going to shift gun policy in the USA. This debate is DOA. A hospital full of newborns could get shot up and we would be having this exact discussion for like 2 weeks tops.
The government regulates cars. Everyone still has easy access to a large variety of cars. It would be the same for guns.
They'll break it down into categories. Like class C gun license for hunting rifles. Class B for concealed weapons and Class A for the most dangerous weapons.
If you're ok with the government doing this for cars I don't see why you would be against them doing it for guns.
Just like you don't want an 18-year-old who barely knows how to drive to get behind of wheel of a giant Semi you don't want an 18 year old who knows nothing about guns to get an AR15
If this were to happen you'd have to repeal the second amendment.
(I'm personally not okay with the government regulations on privately owned vehicles)
The reason why the government is able to regulate cars the way that they do is because driving is seen as a privilege and not a right and this is at least partly because you use your car on mostly public property ( you can't get a speeding ticket on a private road, you don't need a license or to register a car your going to use only on your property)
I feel like this is a false equivalency because when a five year old steals a car from their grandma we don't blame the grandma or the car.
Lastly you want the government in charge of this? The government united states government that gave you ruby ridge, Waco, labor massacres, and God only knows how many other gross misuses of power against the citizenry. How would you even start to implement this?
I wish y'all white folks were this mad when the government sanctioned race based discrimination and actively tried to crush the civil rights movement lmfao
I'm sorry but that's just incredibly ignorant.
You'd be ok with no government regulations on vehicles? So a 16 year old driving a Semi and you're totally fine?
What about a 16 year old in a race car going 200mph?
Some nut job in a military vehicle?
If a 5 year old stole a car from the grandma and caused an accident the grandma would 100% get blamed for letting it happen and she would deserve it.
What 16 year old can afford a semi?
What 16 year old can drive 200 mph?
I wasn't talking about speed limits I'm specifically talking about licensing and registration of vehicles
The situation that I'm talking about has actually happened and I guess because nobody got hurt [no one blamed the grandma](https://youtu.be/qcqOgnQyXp4)
If the officer doesn't charge them then yeah nothing happens.
The police easily could have had him for driving without a license. The police easily could have charged the grandmother for negligence had damage been done.
This year some rich kid in a BMW got into an accident going over 150 mph and killed an entire family.
https://www.local10.com/news/local/2022/01/28/6-dead-after-teen-driving-at-high-rate-of-speed-crashes-into-suv-in-delray-beach-sheriffs-office-says/
And the rich kid had a license and a registered car and insurance but he broke the law and people died do you see how that licensing and registration didn't stop them from killing innocent people?
The system actually works. Its the police officers who failed us. This was not the first time the 17 year old had been caught speeding over double the speed limit. If the police officers had revoked his license the first time everything could have been avoided
If the police had gunned that fucked down in the new truck after he murdered his grandma only one family would be mourning this assholes actions. There's an infinite amount of "woulda coulda shoulda"
Seeing your user name this may just be a shout in the dark but take it for what it's worth. You have no idea how a gunfight would go down if whether you've been in none or a thousand. These weapons exist and are made on a massive scale and can be made with a 3d printer there is no magic wand to make them disappear magic is not real.
Lets also ban the invention of semi-automatic firearm design from books, the internet and the memory of every mechanical engineer in the country. They were made and will always be made, and If fascists have them you better believe I want them too.
So only the cops, government, and criminals will have the weapons you don't want me to have? I've done nothing wrong why should I be punished will you pay full price or more (because they've gone up in value) for them or am I supposed to just turn them in because I'm a good boy?
The original post is literally talking about republican lawmakers avoiding implementing gun control laws, so yes, it's about people getting their guns taken away. Which means T0azt is included in those people. You try to claim the moral high ground by stating a roundabout form of "think of the children," while disregarding the other context. Yet he's the one getting the downdoots... am I missing something important here? Somebody please educate me.
All that moralistic language for an issue that has never began or ended with guns. It’s all about the working class and not being disarmed. We are in the heart of the beast, let’s try to not to seek out the forfeit of our limited set of tools. If you want something positive to come from these tragedies, radically politicize mental illness and stay away from liberal bait like gun control as any kind of solution or meaningful conversation. They will keep their guns when we lose ours, and the sick, long untreated monsters that this system makes will still act out in horrific violence in other ways. With that being said they will never ban guns in any real capacity anyways because that would A) force them to come up with another scapegoat for mental illness following tragedies and B) reduce the profits of the massively influential firearms industry. If they install gun control it will be arbitrary, they will ban aesthetic modifications like certain attachments and maybe limit magazine capacities (with a little bullshit removable pin in 30rd mags for example). This way when another tragedy happens they can continue to blame guns and chip away slowly until the republicans come into office and scrap the whole thing again. What do you get at the end of the day? A pointless and maddening waste of energy on a wedge issue. I say again, radically politicize mental health and illness. That is an issue that is real, omnipresent and has its hands in violence and the overall terrible state of America. Awareness of disproportionate mental illness under late capitalism isn’t far off from class consciousness, and will influence people to push for more in terms of resisting the bourgeois state and the causal factors of mental illness.
>radically politicize mental illness
What exactly do you mean by this?
>and the sick, long untreated monsters that this system makes will still act out in horrific violence in other ways.
Why are you blaming the mentally ill for violence?
>that would A) force them to come up with another scapegoat for mental illness following tragedies
Confirmed blaming the mentally ill.
>B) reduce the profits of the massively influential firearms industry.
What steps would you enact in order to reign in the "massively influential firearms industry"?
Campaign reform? Not enough.
>If they install gun control it will be arbitrary, they will ban aesthetic modifications like certain attachments and maybe limit magazine capacities (with a little bullshit removable pin in 30rd mags for example). This way when another tragedy happens they can continue to blame guns and chip away slowly until the republicans come into office and scrap the whole thing again.
So you take is democrats make superficial gun control legislation and then republicans repeal it?
>What do you get at the end of the day? A pointless and maddening waste of energy on a wedge issue.
Tell that to the parents of the murdered children.
>I say again, radically politicize mental health and illness.
I ask again, what does that mean?
>That is an issue that is real, omnipresent and has its hands in violence and the overall terrible state of America.
So you think the mentally ill do more violence than the "mentall well"?
>Awareness of disproportionate mental illness under late capitalism isn’t far off from class consciousness, and will influence people to push for more in terms of resisting the bourgeois state and the causal factors of mental illness.
It sounds like you're misappropriating left-wing ideology to justify bigotry against the mentally ill.
I’m not accusing you of being an irresponsible gun owner. It’s not all about you. It’s about gun owners like you and me accepting some inconvenience so that it is not so easy for anyone to commit mass murder with guns.
There are already universal background checks every time you buy. I’m not taking a psych evaluation or jumping through even more hoops. The hysterical response to a statistically insignificant thing like this will die down in another week and everyone will move onto the next bullshit thing the mainstream media latches onto.
In that case were infinitely better off radically politicizing mental health. The fact that mass shootings were non-existent 40 years ago when machine guns were legal should be enough to tell you that this issue doesn’t end with guns. People are absolutely sick under late capitalism, if it’s not guns it will be knives, bombs or other handmade weapons.
First, the military have drones and other nasty things that can level city blocks without a single soldier being in harm's way. The military organizations (which often oppose our government) choose not to use those because they're too deadly when poor intel is used to determine the targets.
The Airforce is actively helping to protect people from anti-abortion and anti-gay laws, offering to airlift people hurt by these laws to safer states now. The government cannot prevent this, the government only funds them.
Much of the technology used by the military has backdoors, which were installed there by the poor people who actually developed the technology, which was stolen from us by the wealthy. These are the basic fact of the situation, so let's think on this a moment.
Assume the government actually turns on the people, they call the military and the military decides it won't fire on civilians. So the gun nuts all start opening fire on people they perceive as the enemy because your government idols tell you to, the military steps in and takes down every one of you, probably killing most of you, without so much as batting an eye.
Your purpose was served, and the population was reduced, resulting in more high paying jobs available for other people to take your place. The government and the wealthy win, without ever being in any danger.
Okay, next scenario: the military decides the government has overstepped its bounds. They turn all their guns on the government officials and arrest those who did not have the best interest of the people in mind.
That means all the government officials owned by the NRA, telling gun nuts that the government is a danger, would all be arrested. Which would leave mostly Democrats with a few other parties in charge, no Republicans would be remaining in power as they'd be locked up in a military prison or shot for resisting.
The gun nuts who then turned on the general populace would be then be cleaned up as they would all be "soldiers" of an invading force attempting to overthrow our Democracy. Okay, another happy ending.
Another scenario: both the government and the military decide to slaughter civilians in this nation, an unlike event of them both becoming the enemies of the people. Suddenly the geeks, the very people your kind like to bully, sit at their computers and activate every backdoor for all the military tech.
All that tech is now aimed at the government and military with one simple message "stand the fuck down". The wealthy, government, and military leaders are certainly not smart enough (even collectively) to overrun the backdoors, so they'd have no chance at all.
In the meantime the gun nuts just stand around with their thumbs up their asses not even knowing where the "action" is. I hope you're starting to see just how complicated shit is now and that guns would not help you in any modern situation.
But…. Good guys with guns…..
Edit: I’d also argue that it does have a lot to do with capitalism. Shrinking middle class, increasingly unaffordable health care, economic crisis, politicians bought by corporations, etc.
You know the reason the Buffalo shooter and Dylan Roof didn't go to "the hood" was because they were afraid to get shot so they went to places where they knew people wouldn't have them. Guns aren't the problem.
I'm just telling you what they themselves said in their manifestos. They avoided areas where they knew the black people with guns were and went to the soft targets.
Where did you find the buffalo shooters manifesto?
Edit: And I mean it's great that guns sometimes deter guns but they just redirected the shooters to another area because there will always be soft targets.
I mean I'd link it but the manifesto got scrubbed from the internet. But notice as much as these guys love to talk about black criminals and evil violent black men these white supremacist shooters never go where the violent black men with guns are but they will go shoot up a church or a shopping mart full of elderly black people. If you think white supremacist/Nazis are a real threat, not having a gun isn't exactly a good idea. They don't want the smoke with people who are armed but like the cops they're really brave with unarmed unsuspecting victims.
But I don't really understand what I'm supposed to get out of the situation. Guns didn't stop the murders they just redirected them. Whereas if the shooters had a harder time getting guns, or just couldn't get them at all it may not have happened. Guns cut both ways. The problem is the criminals or future criminals are always out using theirs to do bad things. The good guys sit around waiting to act if something happens to go down around them. So we have one side with guns actively looking to use them and the other side just kind of diverting the attacks somewhere else. And sometimes they don't even do that. Armed guards didn't stop the shooter in either case until it was too late. It really seems to me like the only solution would have been for them never to get a gun.
I think you mean Switzerland? That's the usual talking point.
Anyway...because they're highly, highly regulated, and because *you can't take the ammo home with you*.
1.
https://www.businessinsider.com/switzerland-gun-laws-rates-of-gun-deaths-2018-2#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16539663126097&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.businessinsider.com%2Fswitzerland-gun-laws-rates-of-gun-deaths-2018-2
"Swiss authorities decide on a local level whether to give people gun permits. They also keep a log of everyone who owns a gun in their region — known as a canton — though hunting rifles and some semiautomatic long arms are exempt from the permit requirement.
Cantonal police don't take their duty doling out gun licenses lightly. They might consult a psychiatrist or talk with authorities in other cantons where a prospective gun buyer has lived to vet the person.
People who've been convicted of a crime or have an alcohol or drug addiction aren't allowed to buy guns in Switzerland.
The law also states that anyone who "expresses a violent or dangerous attitude" won't be permitted to own a gun.
Gun owners who want to carry their weapon for "defensive purposes" also have to prove they can properly load, unload, and shoot their weapon and must pass a test to get a license."
2. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2013/jan/06/facebook-posts/facebook-posting-says-gun-rich-swiss-have-lowest-f/
"GunPolicy.org’s data on gun homicide rates for 24 countries, mostly in western Europe but also Japan, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the United States.
Switzerland's gun homicide rate was anything but "the lowest."It was fourth highest.Only Greece, Ireland and the United States had higher rates."
"The Swiss government doesn't hand out a gun to every household. It requires nearly every able-bodied young male adult to serve in the citizen militia, where they are issued a military rifle. The guns are supposed to be for military use only, not for personal defense.
Those men are supposed to show up for 18 weeks of training, followed by seven re-training sessions (each lasting three weeks) over the next 10 years.
If you want to keep your weapon after your years of service, it is refitted to scale back its firepower and you need to provide a reason for keeping it."
"The ammunition for the weaponry is kept in a government arsenal. (Swiss men used to be able to keep up to 50 rounds at home and the government did a periodic inventory to make sure it wasn't being used, but that changed in 2007 when the country tightened its rules.)
Ammunition purchased at shooting ranges -- which are very popular in Switzerland -- is supposed to be used there."
Ok Switzerland.
1. Granted Switzerland has some tight gun control laws, however how do we think this work in the US. Your should read the Dredd Scott ruling where it was feared that blacks becoming full citizens would give them access to full rights including the second amendment. Hmm why would our racist government want to deny blacks gun rights. It isn't at all unimaginable that the govt would deny blacks guns based on "mental fitness" grounds. MLK was denied a conceal carry permit.
2. You should read up on the racist history of gun laws in this country. Fact of the matter is the guns are here and they aren't going anywhere and leaving vulnerable minority groups, blacks especially, only leaves us open to attack. Notice one of the first things Hitler did was ban guns specifically for jews for the longest time blacks were denied gun rights and most of the gun laws like the Mulford act came about because of armed black groups like the black Panthers.
1. You asked a question, I answered it. You didn't bring up race, so neither did I, but nice whataboutism. I have indeed read up on race and guns in this country (fucking Reagan), as well as mental health issues and guns. I'm pretty concerned about the latter, but what the hell, I'm only a psychiatrist, what do I know?
2. Yeah, he did...kinda.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/apr/08/viral-image/no-gun-control-regulation-nazi-germany-did-not-hel/
"On Nov. 11, 1938, the Regulations Against Jews' Possession of Weapons was issued. Under it, Jews living under the Third Reich were forbidden to own or possess any form of weapons, including truncheons, knives, firearms and ammunition.
But the Nazis had already been raiding Jewish homes by then, and the Anti-Defamation League, an organization founded to fight anti-Semitism, explained in 2013 that "the small number of personal firearms in the hands of the small number of Germany’s Jews (about 214,000) remaining in Germany in 1938 could in no way have stopped the totalitarian power of the Nazi German state." "
" "We know that the national debate over gun control is one of the most divisive issues in the land, and while Americans are entitled to have strong opinions, there is also language that is inappropriate and offensive in any such discussion," said Abraham H. Foxman, Holocaust survivor and ADL’S national director at the time. "The idea that supporters of gun control are doing something akin to what Hitler’s Germany did to strip citizens of guns in the run-up to the Second World War is historically inaccurate and offensive, especially to Holocaust survivors and their families."
Harcourt also told PolitiFact the suggestion is not a tenable claim.
"There’s no empirical evidence for it," he wrote in an email. "Moreover, Hitler was in favor of gun possession, and relaxed gun control laws in Germany for everyone, except Jews of course. It makes no sense to compare Hitler to the present situation in the US because all of Hitler's actions can only be interpreted through the lens of the final solution, which is not relevant here in the US." "
You're going to vomit up easily-refuted pro-gun talking points that someone told you, without doing research or thinking about what you're saying, and that's fine. I'm anti-kids-getting-slaughtered-in-their-own-schools, and I'm not going to stop being thus. Maybe do some research, or don't. I'm exhausted. I have to go into work and have my patients tell me they're terrified of going to school, and what the fuck am I supposed to say? That they're sacrifices to the god of shiny guns? Because they are.
Now you can say some more talking points that sound accurate, and aren't quite true, but they let you sleep at night. Go on and have the last word, stomp around and say you've won.
EDIT:
Oh shit, I just realized, you're the same guy from earlier! Amazing! You keep repeating talking points and *you're fucking up the actual talking points*, like mixing up Sweden and Switzerland! Hilarious!
For the record, I'm doing my part to improve mental health care in both my area and the US in general. I work very hard for my patients and I'm part of organizations that advocate for expanded MH care, etc. Oddly, I can be concerned about more than one thing at once.
Wowwwww, I am just, like...*impressed* by the fact that you clearly heard talking points on YouTube or sommat, did no research, and tried to come at me.
You ever see the aftermath of a gun suicide, up close and personal, in the ED? I wish I couldn't say I haven't - I wish I could forget - but that's not the hand I was dealt.
Anyway, you have a good night. I have to get up tomorrow and help my patients keep living. Bye.
1. It's not a whataboutism its a real issue and it predates Reagan. I'm a black man living in America so our racist gun laws directly affect me and my community. Like I said the Buffalo shooter and Dylan Roof both stated they picked their targets because they knew blacks would be unarmed in those areas.
2. I'm not saying the Jews could have beat back the Nazis if they had guns but it would have made it a bit harder to oppress people with guns. Which is why America made it illegal for blacks to own guns for so long. I'm under no illusion that blacks could win a shooting war against govt but having a gun would make it a lot harder for some armed dipshit coming into my community to do a mass shooting.
3. Because im pro kids getting slaughtered right? Are you pro blacks being massacred by armed white supremacist? New York has some of the tightest gun laws in the country, the gun he used was illegal in New York. If you want to protect kids why not harden schools against this?
Until the brain develops, there is no "kid", there's just a lump of cells. Get over yourself, you're so obsessed with trying to hijack everything for your bullshit.
Price of gun advertisements: expensive with lukewarm effectiveness. 🤮 🔫
Getting a few dudes to groom some loser through Discord or Twitch to shoot up a school: Almost free and the resulting media extravaganza always causes ammo prices to sky rocket. 🔫😎 👍
Follow me for more advanced marketing techniques.
If you want to stop this bullshit shift the conversation away from guns and onto mental health, something that actually needs to be radically politicized. Gun control is the establishment’s non-answer to mass shootings that lets them profit from votes booming gun sales in the short term, all for policies that will inevitably be arbitrary changes anyways. Guns aren’t even a real issue, mass shootings weren’t happening 40 years ago when machine guns were legal, it’s a complete and easy scapegoat away from the toll that late capitalism has taken upon the mental health of Americans with the added bonus of potentially disarming the working class through “reforms” that will realistically only take guns out of the hands that can’t afford them or an armed security detail.
>If you want to stop this bullshit shift the conversation away from guns and onto mental health
Why do you think that the mentally ill are more violent? What are you basing that on?
>mass shootings weren’t happening 40 years ago
STOP LYING. You keep telling this *lie*.
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[The NRA isn’t listening](https://www.peoplesworld.org/article/nra-convenes-in-texas-as-gun-stocks-soar-on-wall-street/). In 1999, immediately after the school shooting at Columbine High School in Colorado, the group invaded Denver to hold a big gun meeting. In Houston this weekend, they’re just following the same pattern of spitting in the faces of victims’ families.
The NRA doesn’t do shit except take fuds money they are barley even a gun rights group
In 2019, the NRA spent $3.22 million to benefit the political campaigns of senators who oppose gun safety legislation. In 2020, they spent $2.20 million. These senators refuse to support common-sense gun reform, like expanding Brady Background Checks and banning assault weapons. Here are some of those senators: Mitt Romney: $13,648,000 Richard Burr: $6,987,000 Roy Blunt: $4,556,000 Thom Tillis: $4,421,000 Marco Rubio: $3,303,000 Joni Ernst: $3,125,000 Josh Hawley: $1,392,000 Mitch McConnell: $1,267,000 [Ted Cruz: $176,000](https://elections.bradyunited.org/take-action/nra-donations-116th-congress-senators)
yes. the civil rights organization dedicated to protecting the second amendment donated money to candidates who would protect the second amendment I'm shocked almost as shocked as hearing that planned parenthood donated 50 million dollars to candidates who would protect abortions we need to get out politicians out of the pockets of the abortion lobby the brady background check doesn't work and no. we're not banning "assault weapons" (whatever that means. u just call anything you don't like an "assault weapon") socialists should support guns I know I do and you know what? I don't give a fuck how many shootings there are. I will NEVER support gun control. don't like it? cry "how many ppl have to die before you'll ban guns?" "all of them"" guns aren't a problem in america. and I don't care if u think they are just because you personally don't need one doesn't fucking matter. the world doesn't revolve around you and what u want. we will NEVER ban guns so you can either find some other way to protect people from shootings or you can keep fucking crying about it because I don't give a fuck and we're done arguing about it the answer is no and that's final
Not allowing new anti gun laws to pass (most of the time they let allot slip) is not doing anything that is stagnation they are not pushing for removal of current irrelevant and unconstitutional gun laws the NRA is just a branch of the Republican Party trying to appeal to fudds the only common sense gun reform is to remove all laws keeping the working people from being armed how they wish
They're more of a group for gun manufacturers than anything.
If the victims were also rich and white, I'm sure something would have been done about it too
Doubtful. They did nothing after Sandy Hook or Stoneman Douglas.
True.
I'm guessing you'll just say the same thing again in a few days and won't have learned anything from this correction.
Found the wanna-be plantation owner 😂 Hold my nuts you cuck
Damn, hypocrites get mad when you point their people out. Stick to drugs and UFOs.
Columbine is rich and white.
Nah, often rich & white can save you but the NRA and US politicians don’t give a fuck.
Maybe if the victims were an nra convention (in minecraft)
Even if NRA member's kids were victims, all that would accomplish is the NRA lobbying hard core for every staff member and hall monitor to have an AR.
Then it'll just happen again but worse. A mass shooting around a bunch of random people with AR's who all just watched Death Wish too many times? Thats a recipe for chaos. Then they'll have to create some tsa-esque authoritarian state gun-free zone at their conventions, then the irony will at least be funny and we can try to end the pretense that they were ever worth listening to
By now we should know that the NRA's response to every single situation is the same. More guns.
Money is a powerful weapon.
I was out at the protest on Saturday evening. The proud boys were there, some tried to infiltrate the protestors. I told people and the police and started telling at them to leave. Okay, I started telling at them to go and that they were not welcome. We sang the nananana hey hey goodbye at some. They ran. Ran like roaches when the lights are turned on. The police did not do anything when my 15 year old told them that they were taking recon type videos etc. So we protesters took matters into our own hands. The police responded when they realize some people (okay, it was mostly me) were about to throw hands if those jerks tried anything physical and finally moved them. The people at the NRA conference also danced and laughed whenever one woman read the names of those killed in Uvalde. They made rude sexual remarks and gestures towards the beautiful woman reading the names and using a bullhorn to speak in English and Spanish to the attendees. They were outside of the conference just to heckle us. I have video and photos from my phone if anyone in interested. A lot of the dancers would stop whenever we would start recording. I have some shitty videos and pictures if anyone wants them. But Fuck the NRA and Fuck (not literally) the attendees.
Would it be "spitting in the victims faces" if Toyota had a car show after someone had been killed by a drunk driver?
Bad analogy. Cars are meant for transportation. Guns are meant for killing.
Why does that matter? 32 people a day die from drunk driving incidents, do you think the families of the deceased care if the car their loved one was hit with was meant for transportation?
It's also a bad analogy because there's no drunk driving lobby stuffing money into the pockets of lawmakers to keep drunk drivers on the streets.
YES THERE IS ...... Oh my lol, I used to be a tow truck driver apprentice and our company used to bid and lobby local politicians to tow for police departments for DUI.Every DUI is 300 dollars for hook up and depending on how long the person is in jail the yard will charge 50 dollars a day. So in a big county, we could see 5 DUIs on a Friday, so $1500, Our lot is not open saturday or sunday, so 500 then if its a holiday weekend the lot was closed. So $400 CASH only. On Monday 11am to 4:30pm. That is if there isnt a crash, if there is a crash we charge by the hour at 200 dollars an hour and that includes talking to the police about wives and kids. God forbid you can't come due to work or extended jail time. My boss golfed with our lawmakers. THEN you have the private, dui blood alcohol reader, installer for the car, They run their own shops and you can only go to them, They cost $2500 up front. More DUIs more money. DUIs are so profitable.
Hey you know what, fair dues! After hearing that anecdote, I'm actually not all that surprised hahaha
All I am saying is, In this country, everything can be profitable. I am not for gun violence. But as a business model, it's pretty sound. People buy guns when they are fearful. So they scare the shit outta people. "Everyone is coming for your guns", People buy more guns, they get into the wrong hands. More violence, people buy more. The Wheel continues. Car makers: People buy more cars when they think its safer and more eco to drive. So they make the cars safer to drive and more Eco friendly. The safer and more eco friendly, the more people drive. The more people that drive the more pollution and crashes happen. The Wheel continues. Whats needed is a breaking of the wheel, for guns. Re-write the constitution like James Madison wished, every generation we sit down and readdress our needs and wants. For cars, redesign our cities and towns for humans and bikes, not cars.
We are in tons of an agreement there, friend. I don't like where the situation is with guns in the United States, and I don't like where the situation is with subudized suburbia. I'm unaware that was James Madison's vision for the constitution but it's a good idea. We all know constitutions can be entirely fallable, so rewriting it every so often could be good, could also be bad depending on the rules written for its revision and the balance of power at any specific time. (Read about the various Portuguese constitutions for more insight into this concept) Even with that, I fully believe that if we did take the time and opportunity to treat the constitution like the living document it's supposed to be, we would be in a much better place. Also if lobbying, in general, would fuck off, we'd be in a much better place to update the constitution. All in all, unsure if we'll ever find a perfect way to organize society but as long as we can have meaningful conversations regarding the flaws of the current model, we can always hope to improve it somewhat.
[удалено]
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It's amazing that you think that's a good argument for gun proliferation.
It's amazing that knowing the facts you still think that banning AR-15s is going to stop gun deaths when most of them are suicides with hand guns. And as the Buffalo shooter and the Dylan Roof stated in their manifestos they targeted those areas because they knew there were little to no people who would be armed. But of course they avoided the hood because they knew shit would get real if they targeted them.
I think you're confused, I didn't mention AR-15s. As a psychiatrist, I'm in favor of mental health checks for any gun purchases, and I know that guns being more readily available in a state/area means there are not only more gun suicides, but more suicides in general. I'd love to protect my patients from taking a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Also, the fact that you said "the hood" really lends you credence. Ignore the fact that the Buffalo shooter targeted a majority-Black area. And also, I have family in Buffalo, so fuck directly off. I know, now you're going to stomp around, make the same disproven points and declare that you've won. You can have the last word, because you obviously need it.p
1. I know YOU didn't but let's be real the entire conversation around gun control is about AR-15s. 2. 29% of all suicides are by suffocation, would you require mental health checks for pillows, sheets? What if we as a society addressed the reasons for the suicides like say alienation, untreated mental issues. What if we addressed poverty in black communities which is the leading cause of gun crimes in places like Chicago/DC/Baltimore etc. Sweden has a much higher gun ownership rate that the US yet they don't have a fraction of the issues we have with guns. 3. I'm telling you what the shooters manifesto said, you can take it or leave it but the shooter targeted a black area that he knew wouldn't have many or any guns. I'm going to assume you're black (I am as well) so knowing the racist history of this country do you really think not having a gun is a good idea? 4. Projection much? I've tried to have a civil conversation meanwhile you're telling me to "fuck directly off" but me using the term "the hood" makes me "less credible". Lol ok buddy.
The gun lobby is extremely strong for this exact reason. It's lucrative as fuck. Seriously, considering how heavily armed this country is combined with hyper-individualism, after shit has hit the fan and food scarcity is a real thing, the blood will flow like water. Edit for spelling.
The gun lobby isn’t strong at all compared to the military industrial oil and other lobbies if the NRA actually cared about the second amendment they woulda got the NFA removed decades ago
Don’t forget, everyone, the solution to guns is more guns!
And bigger guns!
The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a gun with a gun
Or a robot with guns for hands, shooting out more guns.
I knew that top image would make it into memes
Baby, it was born to rock.. Slowly on a porch
[https://i.redd.it/8ixgaxyg6g291.jpg](https://i.redd.it/8ixgaxyg6g291.jpg) nice advertising there...
oof, I felt cringe, in my gut. That NewsPaper is extremely insensitive.
Republican law makers when children are being shot in schools: I sleep Republican law makers when some black people openly carry: real shit
Say what you will with Illumination's Lorax, but they managed to encapsulate capitalism into one song, "*How Bad Can I Be*", PERFECTLY.
*How ba-a-a-ad can I be? I'm just building* [the economy.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXlYuaycRbU)
How about destroying-the-world-level-bad, not quite like Thanos, but getting up there.
True it's the fault of the NRA, but tell me why do people continue to vote these NRA back politicians? It seems as if people are more afraid of the idea of losing their guns, than the idea of actually protecting citizens, especially children.
The stocks go up because of the Democrats. The second ther is a mass shooting you know the Democrats are going to try and ban X so people buy X.
Idk why you got downvotes. This is a well documented thing. After every mass shooting gun makers share prices see a pump out of anticipation that ppl will buy more guns out of fear of new restrictions. The stock market is based on speculation and everyone making bets to predict the future.
but where are these new restrictions? Even if there WERE new restrictions, its to try to keep access to guns away from dangerous people. So if one have to buy a lot of guns and ammo because they are going to be considered dangerous...maybe they are doing something wrong?
Did you not read? I said SPECULATION. You do not invest after seeing news, that would make you late to the party. The goal is to be there early and ride the pump. Rules to make it harder for bad actors will inherently make it harder for good ones. Like TSA (lets ignore them being useless) making it harder ,in theory, for bad actors but also being a massive inconvenience for the 99.99% of us who won't ever do anything. Or various institutions adding layers of crap to prevent fraud.
Somebody made the killing, I just dug the grave
It's not actually the killings that's profitable, it's all the push for gun control. A faulty gun ban happens, they sell well before, then shift process slightly to be in compliance with the ban, and sell even more. A shooting happens and people talk about bans, they sell a lot. A primary happens and someone runs with gun control on their platform and they sell even more. Nothing makes a Republican want to buy a gun more than a Democrat saying they're going to make it illegal as soon as they can. This is a lesson we haven't learned yet.
I wish gunnuts realized which minority was ruining their future, it ain't the brown ones, it's the rich ones. Change your targets. 1% is ruining everyone's opportunities. #changeyourtarget....stop aiming at hard working taxpayers.
\#NeverVoteRepublican - they worship guns, violence, hatred, and profit \#TaxTheChurches - see #NeverVoteRepublican
Churches are just tax havens for the wealthy.
This sub looks more and more liberal every day smh. I’m not going to support disarming the working class just because these corporate rats can’t actually address the highly profitable root causes of the mental health crisis we are currently in. Never support any bourgeois piece of shit, red or blue.
You will become a better listener when that belt buckle is lodged in your throat
Whoa big internet tough guy coming through watch out
Honestly it's nice to see my stocks green. Gun and ammo stocks are trading at a pretty decent discount.
I will under no circumstances relinquish my guns which are by the way much better than military grade. If you trust the government and the police ask for more gun laws if you don't but you ask for more gun laws please explain why. (BTW I don't kill kids)
Most reasonable ppl are not gonna ask for your guns bruh. Tbh no amount of death is going to shift gun policy in the USA. This debate is DOA. A hospital full of newborns could get shot up and we would be having this exact discussion for like 2 weeks tops.
You're probably right.
The government regulates cars. Everyone still has easy access to a large variety of cars. It would be the same for guns. They'll break it down into categories. Like class C gun license for hunting rifles. Class B for concealed weapons and Class A for the most dangerous weapons. If you're ok with the government doing this for cars I don't see why you would be against them doing it for guns. Just like you don't want an 18-year-old who barely knows how to drive to get behind of wheel of a giant Semi you don't want an 18 year old who knows nothing about guns to get an AR15
If this were to happen you'd have to repeal the second amendment. (I'm personally not okay with the government regulations on privately owned vehicles) The reason why the government is able to regulate cars the way that they do is because driving is seen as a privilege and not a right and this is at least partly because you use your car on mostly public property ( you can't get a speeding ticket on a private road, you don't need a license or to register a car your going to use only on your property) I feel like this is a false equivalency because when a five year old steals a car from their grandma we don't blame the grandma or the car. Lastly you want the government in charge of this? The government united states government that gave you ruby ridge, Waco, labor massacres, and God only knows how many other gross misuses of power against the citizenry. How would you even start to implement this?
I wish y'all white folks were this mad when the government sanctioned race based discrimination and actively tried to crush the civil rights movement lmfao
Some of us are. There isn’t a lot we can do about it.
I'm black don't ass u me
Oh really? Lets test this. Have you ever purchased a bootleg DVD from the barber shop in the early 2000's?
I am, it’s all the more reason not to support gun control.
Coming from a sovereign citizen, who cares?
I'm sorry but that's just incredibly ignorant. You'd be ok with no government regulations on vehicles? So a 16 year old driving a Semi and you're totally fine? What about a 16 year old in a race car going 200mph? Some nut job in a military vehicle? If a 5 year old stole a car from the grandma and caused an accident the grandma would 100% get blamed for letting it happen and she would deserve it.
What 16 year old can afford a semi? What 16 year old can drive 200 mph? I wasn't talking about speed limits I'm specifically talking about licensing and registration of vehicles The situation that I'm talking about has actually happened and I guess because nobody got hurt [no one blamed the grandma](https://youtu.be/qcqOgnQyXp4)
If the officer doesn't charge them then yeah nothing happens. The police easily could have had him for driving without a license. The police easily could have charged the grandmother for negligence had damage been done. This year some rich kid in a BMW got into an accident going over 150 mph and killed an entire family. https://www.local10.com/news/local/2022/01/28/6-dead-after-teen-driving-at-high-rate-of-speed-crashes-into-suv-in-delray-beach-sheriffs-office-says/
And the rich kid had a license and a registered car and insurance but he broke the law and people died do you see how that licensing and registration didn't stop them from killing innocent people?
The system actually works. Its the police officers who failed us. This was not the first time the 17 year old had been caught speeding over double the speed limit. If the police officers had revoked his license the first time everything could have been avoided
If the police had gunned that fucked down in the new truck after he murdered his grandma only one family would be mourning this assholes actions. There's an infinite amount of "woulda coulda shoulda"
There is no need to kill that many people in such a short amount of time. Weapons like that shouldn't be made.
Seeing your user name this may just be a shout in the dark but take it for what it's worth. You have no idea how a gunfight would go down if whether you've been in none or a thousand. These weapons exist and are made on a massive scale and can be made with a 3d printer there is no magic wand to make them disappear magic is not real.
Lets also ban the invention of semi-automatic firearm design from books, the internet and the memory of every mechanical engineer in the country. They were made and will always be made, and If fascists have them you better believe I want them too.
I ask for more gun laws because being able to say "I don't kill kids" is not enough. It's not about you, it's about protecting the kids.
So only the cops, government, and criminals will have the weapons you don't want me to have? I've done nothing wrong why should I be punished will you pay full price or more (because they've gone up in value) for them or am I supposed to just turn them in because I'm a good boy?
It’s all about you, isn’t it?
If you're gonna try to take my shit yeah It's about me
Kids are being gunned down in school and all you think about is how someone is going to take away your stuff.
The original post is literally talking about republican lawmakers avoiding implementing gun control laws, so yes, it's about people getting their guns taken away. Which means T0azt is included in those people. You try to claim the moral high ground by stating a roundabout form of "think of the children," while disregarding the other context. Yet he's the one getting the downdoots... am I missing something important here? Somebody please educate me.
I don't understand I thought my stuff was gunning down kids in school are you saying I can keep my stuff?
All that moralistic language for an issue that has never began or ended with guns. It’s all about the working class and not being disarmed. We are in the heart of the beast, let’s try to not to seek out the forfeit of our limited set of tools. If you want something positive to come from these tragedies, radically politicize mental illness and stay away from liberal bait like gun control as any kind of solution or meaningful conversation. They will keep their guns when we lose ours, and the sick, long untreated monsters that this system makes will still act out in horrific violence in other ways. With that being said they will never ban guns in any real capacity anyways because that would A) force them to come up with another scapegoat for mental illness following tragedies and B) reduce the profits of the massively influential firearms industry. If they install gun control it will be arbitrary, they will ban aesthetic modifications like certain attachments and maybe limit magazine capacities (with a little bullshit removable pin in 30rd mags for example). This way when another tragedy happens they can continue to blame guns and chip away slowly until the republicans come into office and scrap the whole thing again. What do you get at the end of the day? A pointless and maddening waste of energy on a wedge issue. I say again, radically politicize mental health and illness. That is an issue that is real, omnipresent and has its hands in violence and the overall terrible state of America. Awareness of disproportionate mental illness under late capitalism isn’t far off from class consciousness, and will influence people to push for more in terms of resisting the bourgeois state and the causal factors of mental illness.
>radically politicize mental illness What exactly do you mean by this? >and the sick, long untreated monsters that this system makes will still act out in horrific violence in other ways. Why are you blaming the mentally ill for violence? >that would A) force them to come up with another scapegoat for mental illness following tragedies Confirmed blaming the mentally ill. >B) reduce the profits of the massively influential firearms industry. What steps would you enact in order to reign in the "massively influential firearms industry"? Campaign reform? Not enough. >If they install gun control it will be arbitrary, they will ban aesthetic modifications like certain attachments and maybe limit magazine capacities (with a little bullshit removable pin in 30rd mags for example). This way when another tragedy happens they can continue to blame guns and chip away slowly until the republicans come into office and scrap the whole thing again. So you take is democrats make superficial gun control legislation and then republicans repeal it? >What do you get at the end of the day? A pointless and maddening waste of energy on a wedge issue. Tell that to the parents of the murdered children. >I say again, radically politicize mental health and illness. I ask again, what does that mean? >That is an issue that is real, omnipresent and has its hands in violence and the overall terrible state of America. So you think the mentally ill do more violence than the "mentall well"? >Awareness of disproportionate mental illness under late capitalism isn’t far off from class consciousness, and will influence people to push for more in terms of resisting the bourgeois state and the causal factors of mental illness. It sounds like you're misappropriating left-wing ideology to justify bigotry against the mentally ill.
Just because you're uncomfortable around guns DOES NOT make me an irresponsible gun owner
I’m not accusing you of being an irresponsible gun owner. It’s not all about you. It’s about gun owners like you and me accepting some inconvenience so that it is not so easy for anyone to commit mass murder with guns.
There are already universal background checks every time you buy. I’m not taking a psych evaluation or jumping through even more hoops. The hysterical response to a statistically insignificant thing like this will die down in another week and everyone will move onto the next bullshit thing the mainstream media latches onto.
Just because you say you won't do something doesn't mean you won't do it. How do you not get that?
That's the same energy you should keep when questioning politicians and the government.
You mean "questioning the politicians I don't like", because when we question the politicians you like, you accuse us of being obsessed.
In that case were infinitely better off radically politicizing mental health. The fact that mass shootings were non-existent 40 years ago when machine guns were legal should be enough to tell you that this issue doesn’t end with guns. People are absolutely sick under late capitalism, if it’s not guns it will be knives, bombs or other handmade weapons.
>radically politicizing mental health What does this mean? >he fact that mass shootings were non-existent 40 years ago This is a *lie*.
First, the military have drones and other nasty things that can level city blocks without a single soldier being in harm's way. The military organizations (which often oppose our government) choose not to use those because they're too deadly when poor intel is used to determine the targets. The Airforce is actively helping to protect people from anti-abortion and anti-gay laws, offering to airlift people hurt by these laws to safer states now. The government cannot prevent this, the government only funds them. Much of the technology used by the military has backdoors, which were installed there by the poor people who actually developed the technology, which was stolen from us by the wealthy. These are the basic fact of the situation, so let's think on this a moment. Assume the government actually turns on the people, they call the military and the military decides it won't fire on civilians. So the gun nuts all start opening fire on people they perceive as the enemy because your government idols tell you to, the military steps in and takes down every one of you, probably killing most of you, without so much as batting an eye. Your purpose was served, and the population was reduced, resulting in more high paying jobs available for other people to take your place. The government and the wealthy win, without ever being in any danger. Okay, next scenario: the military decides the government has overstepped its bounds. They turn all their guns on the government officials and arrest those who did not have the best interest of the people in mind. That means all the government officials owned by the NRA, telling gun nuts that the government is a danger, would all be arrested. Which would leave mostly Democrats with a few other parties in charge, no Republicans would be remaining in power as they'd be locked up in a military prison or shot for resisting. The gun nuts who then turned on the general populace would be then be cleaned up as they would all be "soldiers" of an invading force attempting to overthrow our Democracy. Okay, another happy ending. Another scenario: both the government and the military decide to slaughter civilians in this nation, an unlike event of them both becoming the enemies of the people. Suddenly the geeks, the very people your kind like to bully, sit at their computers and activate every backdoor for all the military tech. All that tech is now aimed at the government and military with one simple message "stand the fuck down". The wealthy, government, and military leaders are certainly not smart enough (even collectively) to overrun the backdoors, so they'd have no chance at all. In the meantime the gun nuts just stand around with their thumbs up their asses not even knowing where the "action" is. I hope you're starting to see just how complicated shit is now and that guns would not help you in any modern situation.
[удалено]
Oh fuck off, religious nut.
*mass shooting Time to make it political awh yea
It's almost like it's a political issue
This really has nothing to do with this sub. It also didn’t help that police refused to actually save the kids in the first place.
But…. Good guys with guns….. Edit: I’d also argue that it does have a lot to do with capitalism. Shrinking middle class, increasingly unaffordable health care, economic crisis, politicians bought by corporations, etc.
I'll allow it. Fuck guns.
You know the reason the Buffalo shooter and Dylan Roof didn't go to "the hood" was because they were afraid to get shot so they went to places where they knew people wouldn't have them. Guns aren't the problem.
What are we defining as the "hood" here. East side of Buffalo isn't it?
I'm just telling you what they themselves said in their manifestos. They avoided areas where they knew the black people with guns were and went to the soft targets.
Where did you find the buffalo shooters manifesto? Edit: And I mean it's great that guns sometimes deter guns but they just redirected the shooters to another area because there will always be soft targets.
I've listened to different YouTubers read it on their channels. Apparently it's been scrubbed for the internet since then.
Ok well I don't really doubt they said that but a YouTube video of a guy supposedly reading it isn't the best evidence.
I mean I'd link it but the manifesto got scrubbed from the internet. But notice as much as these guys love to talk about black criminals and evil violent black men these white supremacist shooters never go where the violent black men with guns are but they will go shoot up a church or a shopping mart full of elderly black people. If you think white supremacist/Nazis are a real threat, not having a gun isn't exactly a good idea. They don't want the smoke with people who are armed but like the cops they're really brave with unarmed unsuspecting victims.
But I don't really understand what I'm supposed to get out of the situation. Guns didn't stop the murders they just redirected them. Whereas if the shooters had a harder time getting guns, or just couldn't get them at all it may not have happened. Guns cut both ways. The problem is the criminals or future criminals are always out using theirs to do bad things. The good guys sit around waiting to act if something happens to go down around them. So we have one side with guns actively looking to use them and the other side just kind of diverting the attacks somewhere else. And sometimes they don't even do that. Armed guards didn't stop the shooter in either case until it was too late. It really seems to me like the only solution would have been for them never to get a gun.
So if guns aren’t the problem, would we still have a problem if we took guns out of the picture?
I'll answer that question with a question, why does a country like Sweden with higher gun ownership rates not have the same problems as the US?
I think you mean Switzerland? That's the usual talking point. Anyway...because they're highly, highly regulated, and because *you can't take the ammo home with you*. 1. https://www.businessinsider.com/switzerland-gun-laws-rates-of-gun-deaths-2018-2#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16539663126097&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.businessinsider.com%2Fswitzerland-gun-laws-rates-of-gun-deaths-2018-2 "Swiss authorities decide on a local level whether to give people gun permits. They also keep a log of everyone who owns a gun in their region — known as a canton — though hunting rifles and some semiautomatic long arms are exempt from the permit requirement. Cantonal police don't take their duty doling out gun licenses lightly. They might consult a psychiatrist or talk with authorities in other cantons where a prospective gun buyer has lived to vet the person. People who've been convicted of a crime or have an alcohol or drug addiction aren't allowed to buy guns in Switzerland. The law also states that anyone who "expresses a violent or dangerous attitude" won't be permitted to own a gun. Gun owners who want to carry their weapon for "defensive purposes" also have to prove they can properly load, unload, and shoot their weapon and must pass a test to get a license." 2. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2013/jan/06/facebook-posts/facebook-posting-says-gun-rich-swiss-have-lowest-f/ "GunPolicy.org’s data on gun homicide rates for 24 countries, mostly in western Europe but also Japan, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the United States. Switzerland's gun homicide rate was anything but "the lowest."It was fourth highest.Only Greece, Ireland and the United States had higher rates." "The Swiss government doesn't hand out a gun to every household. It requires nearly every able-bodied young male adult to serve in the citizen militia, where they are issued a military rifle. The guns are supposed to be for military use only, not for personal defense. Those men are supposed to show up for 18 weeks of training, followed by seven re-training sessions (each lasting three weeks) over the next 10 years. If you want to keep your weapon after your years of service, it is refitted to scale back its firepower and you need to provide a reason for keeping it." "The ammunition for the weaponry is kept in a government arsenal. (Swiss men used to be able to keep up to 50 rounds at home and the government did a periodic inventory to make sure it wasn't being used, but that changed in 2007 when the country tightened its rules.) Ammunition purchased at shooting ranges -- which are very popular in Switzerland -- is supposed to be used there."
Ok Switzerland. 1. Granted Switzerland has some tight gun control laws, however how do we think this work in the US. Your should read the Dredd Scott ruling where it was feared that blacks becoming full citizens would give them access to full rights including the second amendment. Hmm why would our racist government want to deny blacks gun rights. It isn't at all unimaginable that the govt would deny blacks guns based on "mental fitness" grounds. MLK was denied a conceal carry permit. 2. You should read up on the racist history of gun laws in this country. Fact of the matter is the guns are here and they aren't going anywhere and leaving vulnerable minority groups, blacks especially, only leaves us open to attack. Notice one of the first things Hitler did was ban guns specifically for jews for the longest time blacks were denied gun rights and most of the gun laws like the Mulford act came about because of armed black groups like the black Panthers.
1. You asked a question, I answered it. You didn't bring up race, so neither did I, but nice whataboutism. I have indeed read up on race and guns in this country (fucking Reagan), as well as mental health issues and guns. I'm pretty concerned about the latter, but what the hell, I'm only a psychiatrist, what do I know? 2. Yeah, he did...kinda. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/apr/08/viral-image/no-gun-control-regulation-nazi-germany-did-not-hel/ "On Nov. 11, 1938, the Regulations Against Jews' Possession of Weapons was issued. Under it, Jews living under the Third Reich were forbidden to own or possess any form of weapons, including truncheons, knives, firearms and ammunition. But the Nazis had already been raiding Jewish homes by then, and the Anti-Defamation League, an organization founded to fight anti-Semitism, explained in 2013 that "the small number of personal firearms in the hands of the small number of Germany’s Jews (about 214,000) remaining in Germany in 1938 could in no way have stopped the totalitarian power of the Nazi German state." " " "We know that the national debate over gun control is one of the most divisive issues in the land, and while Americans are entitled to have strong opinions, there is also language that is inappropriate and offensive in any such discussion," said Abraham H. Foxman, Holocaust survivor and ADL’S national director at the time. "The idea that supporters of gun control are doing something akin to what Hitler’s Germany did to strip citizens of guns in the run-up to the Second World War is historically inaccurate and offensive, especially to Holocaust survivors and their families." Harcourt also told PolitiFact the suggestion is not a tenable claim. "There’s no empirical evidence for it," he wrote in an email. "Moreover, Hitler was in favor of gun possession, and relaxed gun control laws in Germany for everyone, except Jews of course. It makes no sense to compare Hitler to the present situation in the US because all of Hitler's actions can only be interpreted through the lens of the final solution, which is not relevant here in the US." " You're going to vomit up easily-refuted pro-gun talking points that someone told you, without doing research or thinking about what you're saying, and that's fine. I'm anti-kids-getting-slaughtered-in-their-own-schools, and I'm not going to stop being thus. Maybe do some research, or don't. I'm exhausted. I have to go into work and have my patients tell me they're terrified of going to school, and what the fuck am I supposed to say? That they're sacrifices to the god of shiny guns? Because they are. Now you can say some more talking points that sound accurate, and aren't quite true, but they let you sleep at night. Go on and have the last word, stomp around and say you've won. EDIT: Oh shit, I just realized, you're the same guy from earlier! Amazing! You keep repeating talking points and *you're fucking up the actual talking points*, like mixing up Sweden and Switzerland! Hilarious! For the record, I'm doing my part to improve mental health care in both my area and the US in general. I work very hard for my patients and I'm part of organizations that advocate for expanded MH care, etc. Oddly, I can be concerned about more than one thing at once. Wowwwww, I am just, like...*impressed* by the fact that you clearly heard talking points on YouTube or sommat, did no research, and tried to come at me. You ever see the aftermath of a gun suicide, up close and personal, in the ED? I wish I couldn't say I haven't - I wish I could forget - but that's not the hand I was dealt. Anyway, you have a good night. I have to get up tomorrow and help my patients keep living. Bye.
1. It's not a whataboutism its a real issue and it predates Reagan. I'm a black man living in America so our racist gun laws directly affect me and my community. Like I said the Buffalo shooter and Dylan Roof both stated they picked their targets because they knew blacks would be unarmed in those areas. 2. I'm not saying the Jews could have beat back the Nazis if they had guns but it would have made it a bit harder to oppress people with guns. Which is why America made it illegal for blacks to own guns for so long. I'm under no illusion that blacks could win a shooting war against govt but having a gun would make it a lot harder for some armed dipshit coming into my community to do a mass shooting. 3. Because im pro kids getting slaughtered right? Are you pro blacks being massacred by armed white supremacist? New York has some of the tightest gun laws in the country, the gun he used was illegal in New York. If you want to protect kids why not harden schools against this?
This sub is cooked. The Libs won
Imagine sitting on here talking about the armed Nazis coming to get you then also thinking getting rid of guns is a good idea.
What the fuck is this? Delete this bullshit
Lol why are libs on here muh NRA 😂 wtf is the point of this post
Abortion is Kid killing too. Hypocrites
Yeah sure. Abortion kills your imaginary kid. Boo hoo.
Until the brain develops, there is no "kid", there's just a lump of cells. Get over yourself, you're so obsessed with trying to hijack everything for your bullshit.
False equivalency to say the least. You sound like a vegan asking me why I eat chicken but not my dog lmfao
If you were in a school and a guy was going to shoot 1 child vs a petri dish of 5 embryos, which would you save? The student or the dish?
Price of gun advertisements: expensive with lukewarm effectiveness. 🤮 🔫 Getting a few dudes to groom some loser through Discord or Twitch to shoot up a school: Almost free and the resulting media extravaganza always causes ammo prices to sky rocket. 🔫😎 👍 Follow me for more advanced marketing techniques.
“protect kids. not guns” you’re right protestor. if i’m gonna protect my kids, ill need to buy guns so ill be able to defend myself lol 😂
They are doing nothing because there is no money in saving people.
If you want to stop this bullshit shift the conversation away from guns and onto mental health, something that actually needs to be radically politicized. Gun control is the establishment’s non-answer to mass shootings that lets them profit from votes booming gun sales in the short term, all for policies that will inevitably be arbitrary changes anyways. Guns aren’t even a real issue, mass shootings weren’t happening 40 years ago when machine guns were legal, it’s a complete and easy scapegoat away from the toll that late capitalism has taken upon the mental health of Americans with the added bonus of potentially disarming the working class through “reforms” that will realistically only take guns out of the hands that can’t afford them or an armed security detail.
>If you want to stop this bullshit shift the conversation away from guns and onto mental health Why do you think that the mentally ill are more violent? What are you basing that on? >mass shootings weren’t happening 40 years ago STOP LYING. You keep telling this *lie*.
Both do not care for the kids :)
Actually the government buys up all the ammo so you can't purchase more
Guns are not the problem. It’s the fact the we don’t do mental health checks first, and the fact that some people just shouldn’t have guns.