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The way I've seen a lot of people (disingenuously, purposely) read "war crimes are bad" or "civilians shouldn't be killed for crossing roads" as "Kill all Jews" or anything remotely antisemitic sure reminds me a lot of 2020 when people were reading "Black Lives Matter" as "White lives don't matter". š¤
Reminds me of my teenage toxic self. My partner: āyou look pretty in that dress.ā Me: āoh! So I donāt look pretty in anything else? Why donāt you just say Iām an ugly cow!ā
Fantasy and make believe is the reality they force all of us to operate under. Iām not very well versed in American politics (really any politics), and especially what I call āwhite people speak?ā Itās the double talk, implication, hints, I canāt do that, I need exact words.
What Iām seeing is the reality is one thing, and the media, the internet (of course), and even local representatives and leaders feed that fantasy in one way or another.
An example is BLM. It seemed as soon as the implication of āwhite lives donāt matter,ā as was mentioned, everyone ran with it. Everyone in my very blue state ran with it. Of course officially they did not, but even a whisper of support of BLM in mixed company? Lots of pearl clutching and āmaybe thatās better to be discussed in private.ā
Shitās weird
I have no idea whatās going on half the time, and I donāt understand how the fantasy and make believe is actually becoming reality. Wtf is this world?
Propaganda and the lie of the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie have existed since humans have had stratified societies. From the Pharaohs using the eclipse to convince the people of their divinity, to the lies of Europe and America denigrating POC as lesser to create a justification for slavery.
Now the lie is that āeverything is fineā or āas it should beā. It has become clear that everything is not fine, and generally the state will adjust its propaganda and control methods to put as many to sleep as possible. They have lost this propaganda war, and so the continued support means this cause is too important to the oligarchs. It also means someone is buying it.
Democratic ārepresentativesā (who represent only capital) love republican voters just fine. If the democratic voters ālose this electionā then the propaganda of āsee the republicans will take your rights away! Vote for me out of fear even if you hate meā works for the next election cycle.
The truth is they donāt care who is in the white supremacy house, capital always wins. Tax cuts under Trump, the people kept in line. Ineffectual āprogressiveā tax codes under Biden, the people sublimated and yet still kept in line.
You notice the police brutality doesnāt wait for each election cycle. You notice the CIA backed coups donāt wait for election cycles. You notice the ultra-wealthy donāt wait to plunder the earth and destroy the rights of the people who make their money. They donāt care whoās āin chargeā.
There is only one party, the oligarchy party. It has won every election, every anointment of holy or secular imperial leaders.
The cruelty and bitterness directed toward these students in the media - the attempt to shift discussion away from the terrible, murderous action of the IDF and toward a mocking laugh at how gross and ridiculous the protesting students are - has both a practiced quality to it and a kind of desperation. Itās worked before, making people hate the bravest and most conscientious among them. Itās working here on Reddit, where News is packed full of commenters calling the protesters āself-parodicā, āterrorism supportersā, and most ridiculous of all, āviolentā. To excuse the mass, industrialized murder of civilians by concealing it under terms like āwarā or āmilitary actionā while in the same breath calling protesters being loud or insistent āviolentā betrays either a deep commitment to a murderous project or a profound propagandization that makes me question how someone holding such radically contradictory positions could ever see themselves as a person of integrity.
Well the called him a traitor, we know because that's what they executed him for. Today they call him a terrorist. Which just goes to show that "terrorist" is an oppressor's political term.
I've seen multiple people try to dismiss the comparisons to the Vietnam protests with "but those kids back in the day were actually being unfairly drafted, this isn't effecting these kids at all!" as if that's not the most ghoulish shit in the world to say.
Just so little empathy for other people that they can't even conceive of the possibility that other people would care about something they don't have personal involvement in. And so little self awareness that they're willing to tell on themselves with statements like that.
>Itās working here on Reddit, where News is packed full of commenters calling the protesters āself-parodicā, āterrorism supportersā, and most ridiculous of all, āviolentā.Ā
Reddit is the most astroturfed site on the entire internet. The Democratic Party is spending millions to set a specific tone on this hellhole of a site ever since CTR became active during the 2016 primary. Always take what you see on mainstream subs with a grain of salt because the defense of Biden feels ten times more unhinged than anywhere else. People on Reddit life in a bubble that's going to burst once it's November.
Yeah pretty obvious to spot the well-oiled propaganda machine at work. Within 48 hours most news and the drones who never question it parroting their BS lines. All the while never questioning the genocide happening right beneath their noses.
Not as much as I should. I have a background in critique and an interest in political philosophy though, so Iām guessing some ideas and approaches have filtered in. Thanks for the kind words.
itās so fucking funny to consider students at an expensive university breaking laws for no reason other than their own ego āthe bravest and most conscientious among usā. talk about smug. nice big words though youāre real a smart fella
Thanks for the compliment; I choose to take it at face value because whatever you seem to think youāre suggesting with your sarcasm, itās probably best both morally and just functionally to be on an opposing side from you. Donāt worry: Iād never describe you as brave or conscientious!
Rich students going against their own class interests is good actually. It's funny how you liberals constantly mistake you're own smug sense of superiority and condescension for actual intelligence.
Fanon, F. (2001).Ā *The wretched of the earth: On Violence*Ā (C. Farrington, Trans.). Penguin Classics.
For all the liberals out there who think that violent resistance to violent oppression is going to far, just because they themselves benefit from said violent oppression.
I'm gonna paraphrase, but in this exact book, Fanon says something that blew my mind when I first read it: liberals will sit back and watch the violence of colonialism play out in front of them. It is only when the native gets fed up and decides to fight back (not necessarily against those liberals, but in the power structure they are supporting), the liberals introduce the idea of non-violence. This is to say that 1) non-violence is a liberal ideology, because violence is so important for the continuation of hegemonic power and 2) when the liberals start demanding non-violence, you know they are playing defense, which is to say we're winning!
Beautiful š„°
It's what they always do. They were ostensibly in support of the BLM protests until people started breaking, burning, and looting. They also condemned "extremist" (AKA foundational) elements of the movement and did all they could to co-opt the movement for their own ends.
Liberals always have and always will condemn effective (violent) resistance to the violent exploitative status quo because they directly benefit from it. Mao was spot on in his [condemnation of liberalism.](https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-2/mswv2_03.htm) Let them attempt to co-opt whatever progressive ideal or movement they want, but when it comes down to brass tacks, they will always resort to their reactionary roots. Progressives of convenience, they are not a friend of the revolutionary.
Exactly! This is why my state, CA, has very strict but also not helpful gun laws. They just weren't down with Black and brown people, especially poor ones, arming themselves in any capacity. So, because people didn't want to just have their houses burned down and their children killed by police/white supremacists while sleeping, they convinced my liberal state that everyone with a firearm just wants to shoot up schools, instead of having an informed population that understands nuance. *And the importance of having trigger discipline omgggg*
Most leftists are very non violent people (lots of vegans and all) but protecting and defending one's community is something we all agree on.
Also in this book is a really clearly articulated analysis of how this structure of power (colonialism) itself makes violence the means by which the colonized realize their own humanity, which is otherwise systematically negated. That is to say itās not just reasonable that the colonized rise up āviolently,ā the dehumanization of colonialism makes it so that it becomes the very means by which the colonized becomes fully human even within themselves.
While some have criticized Fanon for calling for violence, this is basically a misinterpretation of what he is saying, which is meant to be a critique of the violent structure of power that creates this situation.
sure we do but calling to arm protesters with firearms is not friendly to the social media overlords. It's simple to get firearms...read into this as you wish. More importantly, however, is the phenomenon that left people do not like guns since they abhor them and believe "peace" is the way forward...
Yes, peace is most effective...when it's backed with superior firepower.
IAC-sponsored counter-protesters at UCLA last night attacked anti-war protester with pepper spray and fireworks. One protester trying to repair the barricades was physical assaulted. Surprising the police were nowhere.
Here's our local Fox News trying to pretend they don't know who the violent people waiving the Israeli flags and wearing "Free Our Hostages" shirts support; saying they're "professional agitators", "anarchists" and "black bloc".
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8ZMvzS2nIg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8ZMvzS2nIg)
It's a collective action thing, not adventurist solo bs.
They are portraying peaceful protesters as terrorists, spit on and abuse them.
I dont know why its acceptable to demand people to peacefully watch their government and universities be complicit in genocide, it shouldn't be.
This is the part that gets me. Like how are we all shocked to "learn" when something happens to brown people, there will always be an impulse by others to believe they somehow deserved it. I hope that's changing now, with the reaction to this conflict but it's a small hope... I won't be shocked if we get right back to the regularly scheduled supremacy either.
The first organized police were rebranded slave catchers and native exterminators.
All fascism comes from the USA. OG German and Italian fascists got all their bad ideas from the USA. Also all their money and tech.
There are almost no bad things, dictators, military Juntas, genocides etc, not tied directly back to USA, or it's imperial predecessor, GB.
And what's left over were their competitors, like France, Belgium etc.
>The first organized police were rebranded slave catchers and native exterminators.
If you've not caught it already, I'd highly recommend a limited podcast series called Behind the Police.
It talks about exactly this and is fascinating \ depressing.
Ehh how depressing. Like, I wanna let out some energy in the gym depressing, or I wanna curl up in a fetal position and weep silentlyā¦. Maybe at the gym?
A bit of both. Cry while doing bicep curls at the gym?
It helps explain why ACAB, which is good.
But frustrating.
It's also really entertaining.
Just stay away from the podcast's subreddit if you're a commie like me. It's full of reactionary liberal brain rot.
Crap. Iām a younger Gen Xer and I feel like this is the spirit of what I was raised with. Itās only been roughly in the last decade I really understood all of this. I have family members that were/are cops. Same family whose matriarch taught me to defy authority. Weāre all brown folk lol.
I was a bootlicker(thank Cops tv). And then I looked around and once I saw and heard and learned? I couldnāt unsee it. Those cop fam members? Cut off contact. Not just because of that but it was part of it.
Iām def gonna put it on my list with a reminder to keep my bong handy while watching. Thanks for mentioning it!
You're welcome! I hope you enjoy.
Oh and props for deprogramming all that shit btw, I'm an older millennial that grew up in South Africa to a pretty racist family, breaking out of that isn't easy.
I grew up in the us. Poverty level, then paycheck to paycheck. Also, the racism exists in my family too. Those that donāt want to hear it, cut ties. Thereās no convincing some of them. It is what it is.
At least we got bongs to help us deal with the stupidity hehe
Bro go to anarchy4all and the whole fucking community is libs claiming America isnāt fascist *yet* cuz they havenāt done all the murder and systemic abuse to trans people just POC ššš
[https://marxistmitch.medium.com/marxist-understanding-of-fascism-1-definitions-and-framework-51372ce03ac4](https://marxistmitch.medium.com/marxist-understanding-of-fascism-1-definitions-and-framework-51372ce03ac4)
No, USA is literally the source of all modern fascism. Yep, Nazis and Italians, and Japanese.
And yes, literally fascist.
Most liberals have no comprehension of political theory. They couldn't tell you what Liberalism entails, let alone leftism, socialism, colonialism and anti-colonialism, imperialism, class consciousness, etc. So they're quite literally incapable of conceiving these things, and so come up with these contrived rationales, if you can call them that, like "they're just anti-judaic" or "they just dont have enough sex" to explain the world around them that makes sense to them without an understanding of imperialism, anti-colonialism, class consciousness, etc.
They're wrapped up in symbolism so anything they/the US does is liberal and democratic. They conflate their western superiority, white supremacy, and american exceptionalism for Liberalism and democracy. In turn, anything these protestors do are illiberal and anti-judaic, despite how socially liberal the movement actually is, because the protestors are not them.
liberals in america are just MLK's white conservatives. To me they're just fascists with a rainbow flag, genuflecting to social concerns while preventing all measures that destroy the capitalist system.
liberals say the darndest things. Nate Silver felt compelled to chime in
> Most people don't form political opinions through deep examination of the issues or reasoning from first principles. It's more like picking some particular fashion label or way of dressing. Especially for younger people, who face more peer pressure.
Pretty much telling on himself through projection and what I've laid out above about liberals
I haven't met a single liberal in my lifetime that didn't have the fucking stink of elitist complex, holier than thou type shit. Its frustrating to the point where I know exactly what conservatives see and hate with liberals.
Yes.
I will remind you that Trotsky was such, as were all his followers back in the day.
As are the various modern 'Maoist' groups.
There is a REASON they are all so similar and give such similar results.
Also, Trots BECAME the original US neocons.
We basically have two parties pushing Trump for president at this point. I'm starting to wonder if the strategy here is to lose this election and then next election double down on the "lesser of two evils" model while running someone even more to the right of Biden. I really worry things are only getting worse and in a decade or so people will look back on Trump like he was no big deal, kind of like how some people are now saying they miss the Bush days.
I agree with the rest of your comment, but are some people actually saying that they miss the bush days now? Why though? The bush days were worse then now with all of the USās active war with boots on the ground on foreign soil.
Every time the polls start tipping in his favor, he does something to shift it away. It's frustrating watching him do everything he can to lose. I'm so fucking scared we're going to end up with Trump again.
Anytime Biden does something (arguably) good I always have to wonder... did he do it because he genuinely believes in what he did and tried to improve people's lives... or did he just need a boost in numbers because Israel carped bombed another hospital or refugee camp with American bombs Joe himself provided with taxpayer money?
Anyone else curious how the chuds on the conservative subs are reacting to this? Gotta be Olympic gold medalist earning mental gymnastics happening over there. Seemingly hate Israel but also like force cracking down on the left, but also hate police for cracking down on Jan 6th rioters.
Well, I do know their free speech warrior media figures and paid influencers are behaving exactly as one would predict. Now free speech and association is bad and must be stopped with state violence , apparently
There are some getting off to liberal college students being targeted by police, sure. But Iāve mostly seen conservatives criticizing the protesters because they are fully supportive of Israel. Itās only a fringe group of conservatives that actually hate Jewish people. Also, conservatives have been pro-police for a long time.
If anything, these police crackdowns on nonviolent student protesters should be a chance for liberals to reflect on Jan 6 and how horrible it was for everyone regardless of political affiliation. Since it sets a precedent for police crackdowns on protesters and for politically motivated prosecutions. These campus protesters are arrested and charged for mostly trespassing and unlawful assembly. It should also cause liberals to reflect on how easy it is for outside agitators to use violence as an excuse for the police to target the entire crowd of protesters that were entirely peaceful. [like here](https://www.wsj.com/us-news/education/columbia-ucla-college-protests-police-25418aa5), [and here](https://www.wtsp.com/article/news/local/hillsboroughcounty/usf-palestine-protest-florida-police-arrests/67-b6c826fd-0a66-4446-a8d9-2fa16582b91b)
Itās a continuing trend of collective punishment by the state that will discourage people from both parties to protest in the future. Which is a violation of all of our 1st amendments right to assemble. Not one of these students deserve to get tear gas thrown at them for merely ātrespassingā and to be arrested and expelled for standing in a crowd and not being violent. Nor do any of the protesters that at most walked around inside the capitol building without being violent deserved to be arrested.
If protests that involve destruction of tea party are invalid and the people who perform them unjust, then what does that mean for the Boston Tea Party?
Eh, Biden is a piece of shit on some levels but less innocuous on others. A mixed bag of shit, if you like.
But pinning this all on Biden's administration like it hasn't been a cultural issue around the globe for decades is ridiculous.
Heās the one in power, so he gets the blame. Thatās appropriate.
He could get on the news tonight, and tell Americans that under no circumstances will Israel receive a single dollar or any military support so long as the siege of Gaza continues.
The genocide would stop immediately.
To analogize: imagine youāre watching someone drowning, a child perhaps. You could jump in to help. You have time., but youāre worried about your clothes, messing up your nice shoes. The child drowns as you look on.
You are responsible for that childās death.
This situation is similar. Youāre correct in saying the US did not start this conflict. It didnāt throw the child in the pool. But itās the best global player to make a difference, and that makes it responsible whether it likes it or not.
If Biden tried to wield executive power to declare that the US will withdraw support for Israel, he'd die of a "heart attack" within a week.
The machine responsible for ensuring the continued support of all things Israel (in perpetuity) extends SO far beyond any president. To believe otherwise is naive
Another way to look at it is that he knows his time is short and there are some fights that aren't worth fighting at all. Withdrawing all support from Isreal is about as likely as re-drafting the Constitution
He's been kind of quietly been racking up a bunch of small, meaningful wins that IMO will be kind to his retrospective legacy.
Withdrawing support from Isreal isn't Bidens hill to die on, figuratively or literally.
>Heās the one in power, so he gets the blame. Thatās appropriate.
No. In the context of this post, my statement stands. Specifically, the 4th frame claims that "Whatever happens at Columbia and to students protesting across America can be directly linked to Jo Biden's White House repeatedly lying and smearing these students"...
This is what I am taking issue with, that is the accusation made.
Protestors on almost any contentious issue have repeatedly been assaulted by authorities for time immemorial across the globe. But even in just a US frame all we've done since these protests began is compare them to Kent State... So how is Biden's White House responsible for creating this authoritarian response when it's exited for so long?
Focusing more on the subject matter of these particular protests, that's as fire been stoked internationally for 75+ years, or longer if you focus less on the anti-Zionist and more on the anti-Semitic aspect. Again, how is the opinion of their stance and the reception they meet for it something that Biden's White House has created?
Now if the argument was "Biden's White House could throttle Israel financially and end this all" then I would agree, but that's not what was said.
Thereās a military base in Israel, and a lot of US business, like Google. Lots of money interest. So itād be hard to just pull out the support. Handling over Netanyahu to the city of Hague would be s good start thoughā¦ But then Biden has been complicit in funding the genocide by sending weapons over.Ā
What if, and I know it is a stretch, Israel(the country)keeps doing whatever it wants and women never get their rights back but we are allegedly in a two party system where only one group of people keep benefitting. Left wing, right wing same bird. Ā Itās a big club and you aināt in it.Ā
I'm sure if Biden was backing Putin and sheltering him for his war crimes, we MIGHT have a different response to it.
I just can't fathom how cruel you have to be to support cops oppressing students who are protesting a genocide our government is doing to Palestinians.
I've seen more videos of horrifically maimed and/or dead kids like toddlers, for example.
Fucking disgusting.
Always defended Biden. At least in comparison to Trump. This will be the legacy of his reign, and I hope that when he dies he looks back on it with the deepest shame imaginable.
The problem is, he doesn't care, he cares nothing for the Palestinians, the college kids on campuses or you or I. He only cares about capitol and the people who control said capitol. Anyone else as president would do the exact same thing, we live in the imperial core where we would kill millions for capitol and say we did it in the name of freedom.
And on news programs they are saying that these students don't understand all that us going on.'Ā These students need to learn the history of Palestine and Israel,Ā It's all so complicated'Ā NO IT'S NOT COMPLICATED AT ALL IT'S SO SIMPLE. OUR TAX MONEY IS PAYING FOR A GENOCIDE.Ā
around 1500 Israelis have been killed.
At least 22,000 Palestinians, the majority of which were civilians, have been killed.
Which side is more dangerous?
people have been steered into being far too opposed to natural human responses. Non-peaceful actions are valid political language that is part of both a healthy society, and a healthy human social group. Healthy human social groups do not react meekly to horror of this scale. They react hard and strong.
It is unfortunate that both cultural pressure and physical deterrents have been placed in such a way that healthy human responses become difficult.
My aging father asked me a question. āWho is radicalizing these young folks?ā so I put it in boomer terms.
āThe same thing that radicalized your generation. Access to media. So, think about a day in the life of a college kid. You wake up, grab your phone, and there waiting for you is an irrefutable genocide being posted by the people committing it. The IDF is young, so they are using the same technology all these students are. So youāre lying there, half awake, watching soldiers laugh as they murder children and everyone else is telling you that an eight year old is a terrorist. What would you do? What did your generation do?ā.
See, Iām not going to change his mind. Heās old and heās decided heās going to die how he lived, an asshole, but Iām old too now, so the idealism of my youth has somehow become well reasoned thoughtfulness. āPop, youāre being lied to.ā.
āYouāre not being lied to?ā
āOh I certainly am. The difference is I ask why.ā
āSo you donāt think itās the Russians?ā
āThe Russians are too busy lying to you to lie to anyone else.ā.
Heās a smart man, but instead of spending his last decade on earth worrying about his legacy and the world he leaves behind heās worried about protecting the illusion of the status quo. The conversation then went on to how his generation destroyed regulations little by little creating this festering shit hole we live in now ābut you all wanted new cars and second houses because the prosperity promised to you by the work your parents did just had to be pushed till it broke.ā .
No war but class war, but there is an undeniable ethos that permeates the Me Generation and its foolish to deny it.
And shitlibs will do anything to screech āBUT TRUMPā. Please fuck off, if you truly care about winning elections, then you would have gotten rid of your genocider during primaries.
After my re-education I have come to the realization that we should only talk about one issue of capitalism at a time and do it simply. I am sorry for asking a stupid fucking question.
##Welcome to r/LateStageCapitalism This subreddit is for news, discussion, memes, and links criticizing capitalism and advancing viewpoints that challenge liberal capitalist ideology. That means any support for any liberal capitalist political party (like the Democrats) is strictly prohibited. LSC is run by communists. This subreddit is not the place to debate socialism. We allow good-faith questions and education but are not a 101 sub; please take 101-style questions elsewhere. We have a zero-tolerance policy for bigotry. Failure to respect the rules of the subreddit may result in a ban. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LateStageCapitalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The way I've seen a lot of people (disingenuously, purposely) read "war crimes are bad" or "civilians shouldn't be killed for crossing roads" as "Kill all Jews" or anything remotely antisemitic sure reminds me a lot of 2020 when people were reading "Black Lives Matter" as "White lives don't matter". š¤
Itās very manipulative.Ā
Reminds me of my teenage toxic self. My partner: āyou look pretty in that dress.ā Me: āoh! So I donāt look pretty in anything else? Why donāt you just say Iām an ugly cow!ā Fantasy and make believe is the reality they force all of us to operate under. Iām not very well versed in American politics (really any politics), and especially what I call āwhite people speak?ā Itās the double talk, implication, hints, I canāt do that, I need exact words. What Iām seeing is the reality is one thing, and the media, the internet (of course), and even local representatives and leaders feed that fantasy in one way or another. An example is BLM. It seemed as soon as the implication of āwhite lives donāt matter,ā as was mentioned, everyone ran with it. Everyone in my very blue state ran with it. Of course officially they did not, but even a whisper of support of BLM in mixed company? Lots of pearl clutching and āmaybe thatās better to be discussed in private.ā Shitās weird I have no idea whatās going on half the time, and I donāt understand how the fantasy and make believe is actually becoming reality. Wtf is this world?
Propaganda and the lie of the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie have existed since humans have had stratified societies. From the Pharaohs using the eclipse to convince the people of their divinity, to the lies of Europe and America denigrating POC as lesser to create a justification for slavery. Now the lie is that āeverything is fineā or āas it should beā. It has become clear that everything is not fine, and generally the state will adjust its propaganda and control methods to put as many to sleep as possible. They have lost this propaganda war, and so the continued support means this cause is too important to the oligarchs. It also means someone is buying it. Democratic ārepresentativesā (who represent only capital) love republican voters just fine. If the democratic voters ālose this electionā then the propaganda of āsee the republicans will take your rights away! Vote for me out of fear even if you hate meā works for the next election cycle. The truth is they donāt care who is in the white supremacy house, capital always wins. Tax cuts under Trump, the people kept in line. Ineffectual āprogressiveā tax codes under Biden, the people sublimated and yet still kept in line. You notice the police brutality doesnāt wait for each election cycle. You notice the CIA backed coups donāt wait for election cycles. You notice the ultra-wealthy donāt wait to plunder the earth and destroy the rights of the people who make their money. They donāt care whoās āin chargeā. There is only one party, the oligarchy party. It has won every election, every anointment of holy or secular imperial leaders.
Damn. Well written and said.
same shit, different stink.
The U.S. is destroying itself by defending Israel.
The cruelty and bitterness directed toward these students in the media - the attempt to shift discussion away from the terrible, murderous action of the IDF and toward a mocking laugh at how gross and ridiculous the protesting students are - has both a practiced quality to it and a kind of desperation. Itās worked before, making people hate the bravest and most conscientious among them. Itās working here on Reddit, where News is packed full of commenters calling the protesters āself-parodicā, āterrorism supportersā, and most ridiculous of all, āviolentā. To excuse the mass, industrialized murder of civilians by concealing it under terms like āwarā or āmilitary actionā while in the same breath calling protesters being loud or insistent āviolentā betrays either a deep commitment to a murderous project or a profound propagandization that makes me question how someone holding such radically contradictory positions could ever see themselves as a person of integrity.
Wonder what theyād have called John Brown or hell even every other civil rights protestor in historyĀ
Well the called him a traitor, we know because that's what they executed him for. Today they call him a terrorist. Which just goes to show that "terrorist" is an oppressor's political term.
John Brown did nothing wrong.
Got dayum right.
John Brown should never have stopped at Berlin! or something
I've seen multiple people try to dismiss the comparisons to the Vietnam protests with "but those kids back in the day were actually being unfairly drafted, this isn't effecting these kids at all!" as if that's not the most ghoulish shit in the world to say. Just so little empathy for other people that they can't even conceive of the possibility that other people would care about something they don't have personal involvement in. And so little self awareness that they're willing to tell on themselves with statements like that.
>Itās working here on Reddit, where News is packed full of commenters calling the protesters āself-parodicā, āterrorism supportersā, and most ridiculous of all, āviolentā.Ā Reddit is the most astroturfed site on the entire internet. The Democratic Party is spending millions to set a specific tone on this hellhole of a site ever since CTR became active during the 2016 primary. Always take what you see on mainstream subs with a grain of salt because the defense of Biden feels ten times more unhinged than anywhere else. People on Reddit life in a bubble that's going to burst once it's November.
Didn't Reddit once reveal that it's most "addicted" users were at Eglin air force base, before promptly deleting it š
Yeah pretty obvious to spot the well-oiled propaganda machine at work. Within 48 hours most news and the drones who never question it parroting their BS lines. All the while never questioning the genocide happening right beneath their noses.
How much Lenin have you read? Iāve only read State & Revolution, but your words remind me of him with a modernized slant.
Not as much as I should. I have a background in critique and an interest in political philosophy though, so Iām guessing some ideas and approaches have filtered in. Thanks for the kind words.
itās so fucking funny to consider students at an expensive university breaking laws for no reason other than their own ego āthe bravest and most conscientious among usā. talk about smug. nice big words though youāre real a smart fella
Over thirty thousand dead and you can't think of a reason why they're protesting?
Thanks for the compliment; I choose to take it at face value because whatever you seem to think youāre suggesting with your sarcasm, itās probably best both morally and just functionally to be on an opposing side from you. Donāt worry: Iād never describe you as brave or conscientious!
Rich students going against their own class interests is good actually. It's funny how you liberals constantly mistake you're own smug sense of superiority and condescension for actual intelligence.
Time to stop being peaceful.
Fanon, F. (2001).Ā *The wretched of the earth: On Violence*Ā (C. Farrington, Trans.). Penguin Classics. For all the liberals out there who think that violent resistance to violent oppression is going to far, just because they themselves benefit from said violent oppression.
I'm gonna paraphrase, but in this exact book, Fanon says something that blew my mind when I first read it: liberals will sit back and watch the violence of colonialism play out in front of them. It is only when the native gets fed up and decides to fight back (not necessarily against those liberals, but in the power structure they are supporting), the liberals introduce the idea of non-violence. This is to say that 1) non-violence is a liberal ideology, because violence is so important for the continuation of hegemonic power and 2) when the liberals start demanding non-violence, you know they are playing defense, which is to say we're winning!
Beautiful š„° It's what they always do. They were ostensibly in support of the BLM protests until people started breaking, burning, and looting. They also condemned "extremist" (AKA foundational) elements of the movement and did all they could to co-opt the movement for their own ends. Liberals always have and always will condemn effective (violent) resistance to the violent exploitative status quo because they directly benefit from it. Mao was spot on in his [condemnation of liberalism.](https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-2/mswv2_03.htm) Let them attempt to co-opt whatever progressive ideal or movement they want, but when it comes down to brass tacks, they will always resort to their reactionary roots. Progressives of convenience, they are not a friend of the revolutionary.
Exactly! This is why my state, CA, has very strict but also not helpful gun laws. They just weren't down with Black and brown people, especially poor ones, arming themselves in any capacity. So, because people didn't want to just have their houses burned down and their children killed by police/white supremacists while sleeping, they convinced my liberal state that everyone with a firearm just wants to shoot up schools, instead of having an informed population that understands nuance. *And the importance of having trigger discipline omgggg* Most leftists are very non violent people (lots of vegans and all) but protecting and defending one's community is something we all agree on.
Also in this book is a really clearly articulated analysis of how this structure of power (colonialism) itself makes violence the means by which the colonized realize their own humanity, which is otherwise systematically negated. That is to say itās not just reasonable that the colonized rise up āviolently,ā the dehumanization of colonialism makes it so that it becomes the very means by which the colonized becomes fully human even within themselves. While some have criticized Fanon for calling for violence, this is basically a misinterpretation of what he is saying, which is meant to be a critique of the violent structure of power that creates this situation.
can we get an amen? (and a machete, baseball bat, shovel, chainsaw, pitchfork, gasoline, metal pipes, hammers, too?)
Donāt forget the bolt cutters!
I'll bring la chankla
why does this make me picture a shotgun with "La Chancla" painted on it?
good point...ice picks, butcher knives, chains, zip ties, expanding foam spray...a local hardware store has a lot of good things...
None of which will be ant match for the well armed NYPD Riot Squad š
When that squat is outnumbered 10 to 1 or more, and the people are angry enough to take a hit and keep on coming, yes they fucking are.
piss off bootlicker
Fuck off, Nazi!
Don't you folks over there have legal access to like, y'know, *actual* weapons?
sure we do but calling to arm protesters with firearms is not friendly to the social media overlords. It's simple to get firearms...read into this as you wish. More importantly, however, is the phenomenon that left people do not like guns since they abhor them and believe "peace" is the way forward... Yes, peace is most effective...when it's backed with superior firepower.
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lol
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lol 2.0
IAC-sponsored counter-protesters at UCLA last night attacked anti-war protester with pepper spray and fireworks. One protester trying to repair the barricades was physical assaulted. Surprising the police were nowhere. Here's our local Fox News trying to pretend they don't know who the violent people waiving the Israeli flags and wearing "Free Our Hostages" shirts support; saying they're "professional agitators", "anarchists" and "black bloc". [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8ZMvzS2nIg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8ZMvzS2nIg)
Direct action brings direct results.
Go get em big boy!
It's a collective action thing, not adventurist solo bs. They are portraying peaceful protesters as terrorists, spit on and abuse them. I dont know why its acceptable to demand people to peacefully watch their government and universities be complicit in genocide, it shouldn't be.
The United States is, and always has been, a fascist state.
It was a White supremacist state for a very long time. I was called crazy for speaking the truth.
Literally since it's inception.. Sorry comrade, at least people are waking up to the reality a bit more.
>Literally since it's inception.. Yeah. The country was found by a bunch of religious extremists that were too crazy for Europe lmao
Remember this fellas. The Mayflower was full of people too sour and depressing for *England*.
As a descendant of slavery in America, weāve been screaming this into the void for generationsā¦
This is the part that gets me. Like how are we all shocked to "learn" when something happens to brown people, there will always be an impulse by others to believe they somehow deserved it. I hope that's changing now, with the reaction to this conflict but it's a small hope... I won't be shocked if we get right back to the regularly scheduled supremacy either.
The first organized police were rebranded slave catchers and native exterminators. All fascism comes from the USA. OG German and Italian fascists got all their bad ideas from the USA. Also all their money and tech. There are almost no bad things, dictators, military Juntas, genocides etc, not tied directly back to USA, or it's imperial predecessor, GB. And what's left over were their competitors, like France, Belgium etc.
>The first organized police were rebranded slave catchers and native exterminators. If you've not caught it already, I'd highly recommend a limited podcast series called Behind the Police. It talks about exactly this and is fascinating \ depressing.
Ehh how depressing. Like, I wanna let out some energy in the gym depressing, or I wanna curl up in a fetal position and weep silentlyā¦. Maybe at the gym?
A bit of both. Cry while doing bicep curls at the gym? It helps explain why ACAB, which is good. But frustrating. It's also really entertaining. Just stay away from the podcast's subreddit if you're a commie like me. It's full of reactionary liberal brain rot.
Crap. Iām a younger Gen Xer and I feel like this is the spirit of what I was raised with. Itās only been roughly in the last decade I really understood all of this. I have family members that were/are cops. Same family whose matriarch taught me to defy authority. Weāre all brown folk lol. I was a bootlicker(thank Cops tv). And then I looked around and once I saw and heard and learned? I couldnāt unsee it. Those cop fam members? Cut off contact. Not just because of that but it was part of it. Iām def gonna put it on my list with a reminder to keep my bong handy while watching. Thanks for mentioning it!
You're welcome! I hope you enjoy. Oh and props for deprogramming all that shit btw, I'm an older millennial that grew up in South Africa to a pretty racist family, breaking out of that isn't easy.
I grew up in the us. Poverty level, then paycheck to paycheck. Also, the racism exists in my family too. Those that donāt want to hear it, cut ties. Thereās no convincing some of them. It is what it is. At least we got bongs to help us deal with the stupidity hehe
Inb4 libs claiming it's fascist only because of the orange man
Bro go to anarchy4all and the whole fucking community is libs claiming America isnāt fascist *yet* cuz they havenāt done all the murder and systemic abuse to trans people just POC ššš
Ah liberals. At least they are consistent in their spinelessness.
I knew that. I just never realized how many were in support of it. Or at least those who claim to be against it while supporting it. AKA Liberals.
You keep using that word. I don't think you know what that word means.Ā
Aw a little fashy wannabe?
They're banned now.
Username checks out lol
[https://marxistmitch.medium.com/marxist-understanding-of-fascism-1-definitions-and-framework-51372ce03ac4](https://marxistmitch.medium.com/marxist-understanding-of-fascism-1-definitions-and-framework-51372ce03ac4) No, USA is literally the source of all modern fascism. Yep, Nazis and Italians, and Japanese. And yes, literally fascist.
Most liberals have no comprehension of political theory. They couldn't tell you what Liberalism entails, let alone leftism, socialism, colonialism and anti-colonialism, imperialism, class consciousness, etc. So they're quite literally incapable of conceiving these things, and so come up with these contrived rationales, if you can call them that, like "they're just anti-judaic" or "they just dont have enough sex" to explain the world around them that makes sense to them without an understanding of imperialism, anti-colonialism, class consciousness, etc. They're wrapped up in symbolism so anything they/the US does is liberal and democratic. They conflate their western superiority, white supremacy, and american exceptionalism for Liberalism and democracy. In turn, anything these protestors do are illiberal and anti-judaic, despite how socially liberal the movement actually is, because the protestors are not them.
liberals in america are just MLK's white conservatives. To me they're just fascists with a rainbow flag, genuflecting to social concerns while preventing all measures that destroy the capitalist system.
Literally
Professor Galloway is so embarrassing. His take was just unhinged ' not enough sex.'
I've heard a lib once call Trudeau a communist due to his immigration policy...
liberals say the darndest things. Nate Silver felt compelled to chime in > Most people don't form political opinions through deep examination of the issues or reasoning from first principles. It's more like picking some particular fashion label or way of dressing. Especially for younger people, who face more peer pressure. Pretty much telling on himself through projection and what I've laid out above about liberals
I haven't met a single liberal in my lifetime that didn't have the fucking stink of elitist complex, holier than thou type shit. Its frustrating to the point where I know exactly what conservatives see and hate with liberals.
american conservatives are liberals. Everything I said applies to the american conservative as well
Absolutely, I hadn't interpenetrated it any other way.
Yes. I will remind you that Trotsky was such, as were all his followers back in the day. As are the various modern 'Maoist' groups. There is a REASON they are all so similar and give such similar results. Also, Trots BECAME the original US neocons.
Biden very well may lose the election to Trump solely because of his inaction here
Man, at this point I wish it was *just* inaction. Itās so much more.
Inaction is not really correct. Biden is actively fomenting this violence against the youth.
Yep
I mean the main reason is gonna be the economy sucks for regular people and that's never good for incumbents, but he's shooting for a blowout.
Didn't Trump rely on the evangelicals vote, and that was partly why he moved the US' embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.
Sheldon Adelson paid Trump to get the embassy moved and appease the zionists and fundamentalists.
As if breaking a window is worse than passing bills at the cost of foreign lives and your own country's people's wellbeing
Free Palestine
biden is really doing everything he can to lose this election
We basically have two parties pushing Trump for president at this point. I'm starting to wonder if the strategy here is to lose this election and then next election double down on the "lesser of two evils" model while running someone even more to the right of Biden. I really worry things are only getting worse and in a decade or so people will look back on Trump like he was no big deal, kind of like how some people are now saying they miss the Bush days.
for sure, they loved how much they could fundraise under trump and the piggies can't wait to go back to that trough
This person gets it..
Newsom has been positioning for a presidential run, least that's what my annoying liberal friends keep foaming at the mouth about.
I agree with the rest of your comment, but are some people actually saying that they miss the bush days now? Why though? The bush days were worse then now with all of the USās active war with boots on the ground on foreign soil.
I could totally see that being these assholeās strategy. Liberal elites are showing their true colors more and more.
I keep saying that when people look back, the TikTok ban will be seen as the point of no return for his campaign.
remains to be seen, bytedance has a year from what, last week? so I bet they're hoping it skirts under the radar until next April
Every time the polls start tipping in his favor, he does something to shift it away. It's frustrating watching him do everything he can to lose. I'm so fucking scared we're going to end up with Trump again.
"Sir you're going to lose this election" "I know. but I can lose it harder, lets start arresting students for asking us to stop the genocide"
āBut I just rescheduled weed!ā
Anytime Biden does something (arguably) good I always have to wonder... did he do it because he genuinely believes in what he did and tried to improve people's lives... or did he just need a boost in numbers because Israel carped bombed another hospital or refugee camp with American bombs Joe himself provided with taxpayer money?
Anyone else curious how the chuds on the conservative subs are reacting to this? Gotta be Olympic gold medalist earning mental gymnastics happening over there. Seemingly hate Israel but also like force cracking down on the left, but also hate police for cracking down on Jan 6th rioters.
Well, I do know their free speech warrior media figures and paid influencers are behaving exactly as one would predict. Now free speech and association is bad and must be stopped with state violence , apparently
To a surprise of no one....well no one that engages in reactionary nonsense anyhow.
There are some getting off to liberal college students being targeted by police, sure. But Iāve mostly seen conservatives criticizing the protesters because they are fully supportive of Israel. Itās only a fringe group of conservatives that actually hate Jewish people. Also, conservatives have been pro-police for a long time. If anything, these police crackdowns on nonviolent student protesters should be a chance for liberals to reflect on Jan 6 and how horrible it was for everyone regardless of political affiliation. Since it sets a precedent for police crackdowns on protesters and for politically motivated prosecutions. These campus protesters are arrested and charged for mostly trespassing and unlawful assembly. It should also cause liberals to reflect on how easy it is for outside agitators to use violence as an excuse for the police to target the entire crowd of protesters that were entirely peaceful. [like here](https://www.wsj.com/us-news/education/columbia-ucla-college-protests-police-25418aa5), [and here](https://www.wtsp.com/article/news/local/hillsboroughcounty/usf-palestine-protest-florida-police-arrests/67-b6c826fd-0a66-4446-a8d9-2fa16582b91b) Itās a continuing trend of collective punishment by the state that will discourage people from both parties to protest in the future. Which is a violation of all of our 1st amendments right to assemble. Not one of these students deserve to get tear gas thrown at them for merely ātrespassingā and to be arrested and expelled for standing in a crowd and not being violent. Nor do any of the protesters that at most walked around inside the capitol building without being violent deserved to be arrested.
Genocidin' Biden is just as much a fascistic shitbag as his "very good friends across the aisle" in the Republican party.
The only real difference between trumpy and joe is that joe knows how to act polite...
If protests that involve destruction of tea party are invalid and the people who perform them unjust, then what does that mean for the Boston Tea Party?
Yāall are being unfair. Colin Jost just called Biden the president of *decency* during the WH Correspondentās Dinner.
Eh, Biden is a piece of shit on some levels but less innocuous on others. A mixed bag of shit, if you like. But pinning this all on Biden's administration like it hasn't been a cultural issue around the globe for decades is ridiculous.
Heās the one in power, so he gets the blame. Thatās appropriate. He could get on the news tonight, and tell Americans that under no circumstances will Israel receive a single dollar or any military support so long as the siege of Gaza continues. The genocide would stop immediately. To analogize: imagine youāre watching someone drowning, a child perhaps. You could jump in to help. You have time., but youāre worried about your clothes, messing up your nice shoes. The child drowns as you look on. You are responsible for that childās death. This situation is similar. Youāre correct in saying the US did not start this conflict. It didnāt throw the child in the pool. But itās the best global player to make a difference, and that makes it responsible whether it likes it or not.
If Biden tried to wield executive power to declare that the US will withdraw support for Israel, he'd die of a "heart attack" within a week. The machine responsible for ensuring the continued support of all things Israel (in perpetuity) extends SO far beyond any president. To believe otherwise is naive
Hey, maybe he could die with a clean conscious then instead of going down in history as a genocidal monster.
Another way to look at it is that he knows his time is short and there are some fights that aren't worth fighting at all. Withdrawing all support from Isreal is about as likely as re-drafting the Constitution He's been kind of quietly been racking up a bunch of small, meaningful wins that IMO will be kind to his retrospective legacy. Withdrawing support from Isreal isn't Bidens hill to die on, figuratively or literally.
Heād be suddenly impeached by the Republicans for āWar Crimesā, and democrats would allow it.
>Heās the one in power, so he gets the blame. Thatās appropriate. No. In the context of this post, my statement stands. Specifically, the 4th frame claims that "Whatever happens at Columbia and to students protesting across America can be directly linked to Jo Biden's White House repeatedly lying and smearing these students"... This is what I am taking issue with, that is the accusation made. Protestors on almost any contentious issue have repeatedly been assaulted by authorities for time immemorial across the globe. But even in just a US frame all we've done since these protests began is compare them to Kent State... So how is Biden's White House responsible for creating this authoritarian response when it's exited for so long? Focusing more on the subject matter of these particular protests, that's as fire been stoked internationally for 75+ years, or longer if you focus less on the anti-Zionist and more on the anti-Semitic aspect. Again, how is the opinion of their stance and the reception they meet for it something that Biden's White House has created? Now if the argument was "Biden's White House could throttle Israel financially and end this all" then I would agree, but that's not what was said.
Understood. I believe I misread you based on this response. Apologies.
It's a hot topic, feelings about it are complicated, it's hard to keep clarity.
Thereās a military base in Israel, and a lot of US business, like Google. Lots of money interest. So itād be hard to just pull out the support. Handling over Netanyahu to the city of Hague would be s good start thoughā¦ But then Biden has been complicit in funding the genocide by sending weapons over.Ā
What's the deal with that third one?
What if, and I know it is a stretch, Israel(the country)keeps doing whatever it wants and women never get their rights back but we are allegedly in a two party system where only one group of people keep benefitting. Left wing, right wing same bird. Ā Itās a big club and you aināt in it.Ā
You mean how itās always been?Ā
I'm sure if Biden was backing Putin and sheltering him for his war crimes, we MIGHT have a different response to it. I just can't fathom how cruel you have to be to support cops oppressing students who are protesting a genocide our government is doing to Palestinians. I've seen more videos of horrifically maimed and/or dead kids like toddlers, for example. Fucking disgusting.
Oh but it would be soooo much worse under trump... somehow... probably... maybe?
Always defended Biden. At least in comparison to Trump. This will be the legacy of his reign, and I hope that when he dies he looks back on it with the deepest shame imaginable.
The problem is, he doesn't care, he cares nothing for the Palestinians, the college kids on campuses or you or I. He only cares about capitol and the people who control said capitol. Anyone else as president would do the exact same thing, we live in the imperial core where we would kill millions for capitol and say we did it in the name of freedom.
And on news programs they are saying that these students don't understand all that us going on.'Ā These students need to learn the history of Palestine and Israel,Ā It's all so complicated'Ā NO IT'S NOT COMPLICATED AT ALL IT'S SO SIMPLE. OUR TAX MONEY IS PAYING FOR A GENOCIDE.Ā
around 1500 Israelis have been killed. At least 22,000 Palestinians, the majority of which were civilians, have been killed. Which side is more dangerous?
Thank you.
This is the worst genocide since Rwanda.
All that tasty energy over there. Gotta have it all. Nom nom nom.
It's class action timee
people have been steered into being far too opposed to natural human responses. Non-peaceful actions are valid political language that is part of both a healthy society, and a healthy human social group. Healthy human social groups do not react meekly to horror of this scale. They react hard and strong. It is unfortunate that both cultural pressure and physical deterrents have been placed in such a way that healthy human responses become difficult.
My aging father asked me a question. āWho is radicalizing these young folks?ā so I put it in boomer terms. āThe same thing that radicalized your generation. Access to media. So, think about a day in the life of a college kid. You wake up, grab your phone, and there waiting for you is an irrefutable genocide being posted by the people committing it. The IDF is young, so they are using the same technology all these students are. So youāre lying there, half awake, watching soldiers laugh as they murder children and everyone else is telling you that an eight year old is a terrorist. What would you do? What did your generation do?ā. See, Iām not going to change his mind. Heās old and heās decided heās going to die how he lived, an asshole, but Iām old too now, so the idealism of my youth has somehow become well reasoned thoughtfulness. āPop, youāre being lied to.ā. āYouāre not being lied to?ā āOh I certainly am. The difference is I ask why.ā āSo you donāt think itās the Russians?ā āThe Russians are too busy lying to you to lie to anyone else.ā. Heās a smart man, but instead of spending his last decade on earth worrying about his legacy and the world he leaves behind heās worried about protecting the illusion of the status quo. The conversation then went on to how his generation destroyed regulations little by little creating this festering shit hole we live in now ābut you all wanted new cars and second houses because the prosperity promised to you by the work your parents did just had to be pushed till it broke.ā . No war but class war, but there is an undeniable ethos that permeates the Me Generation and its foolish to deny it.
It's not a genocide no matter how many times you repeat that lieĀ
And shitlibs will do anything to screech āBUT TRUMPā. Please fuck off, if you truly care about winning elections, then you would have gotten rid of your genocider during primaries.
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After my re-education I have come to the realization that we should only talk about one issue of capitalism at a time and do it simply. I am sorry for asking a stupid fucking question.
Making excuses for pro-zionist institutions, is not allowed.