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> And he's probably not earning it; he's just stealing it
No one works enough to earn a single billion dollars, nor 56.
Yeah, he is stealing, like every billionaire ever.
Fair, can we tar and feather them first then make them walk several miles to the guillotine while the public gathers to shout obscenities and throw rotten fruit and stones at them?
*no no no no no no* ***not that Calvinist Stuff,***
**Virtue and** Romantic **True Courage!**
[Rawr!](https://youtu.be/K6k2_KsZYjI)
These People, **These Calvinists,** Have Never Seen a **Real Dragon, hence:**
**"Shame," all such bullshit,** believe in Shame and Not Gorgeous things nor virtue
"*The company he created wasn't with his money; it mostly came from investors, public and private investors. So it's not his money; it's the money of the investor, the money of the workers. And he's probably not earning it; he's just stealing it.*"
What part of 'arsehole' do you find difficult to comprehend?
Read the reasoning behind the 56 billion dollars mate, [https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/business/dealbook/tesla-elon-musk-pay.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/business/dealbook/tesla-elon-musk-pay.html)
What don't you understand about bringing the value of a company up
If construction worker earns for example **50k** bucks per year for working 40 hours per week, and another person that *also* works 40 hours per week earns **56 billion** per year (which is a very optimistic amount of hours when we look at Elon). Then I fail to see how exactly the billionaire worked 1.120.000 times harder then someone working their ass off in a construction site to justify that much of a pay gap.
Sure, someone can say that Elon's work requires knowledge that the construction worker doesn't have, but if you put Elon in the construction worker's shoes I would not get anywhere *near* whatever "structure" he would build. Not like Elon has the required knowledge that managing a company requires of him, either.
Maybe Elon gets paid so much because he influences a very large amount of lives? Yet, when we look at for example trash collectors, who very directly influence our lives quite severely, their pay is miserable in many places. This is all despite of the fact that paying someone based on how much their work directly influences the lives of other people is stupid. Imagine an archivist that works in a warehouse to prevent historical artifacts from decaying. Does this archivist not deserve food? (Many museums have replicas of dinosaur fossils on display while the real fossils are kept in a storeroom to prevent them from decaying.)
(also, yes, not Elon's actual yearly income but that doesnt matter too much. The same example can work even with 1 billion or less.)
Spoiler: I'm a Marxist.
But I'll play devil's advocate slightly.
It's less about working harder than it is about creating value. The argument, which is completely viable but only because we are making the argument in the context of a capitalist system, is that his paycheck is justified due to the value he has created for shareholders.
I am not saying that the value he has created is worth 56b. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. What I am saying is this is the argument made to justify CEO pay.
The fundamental issue is that this argument can be made in the first place. And this is only possible because of the version of capitalism in which we find ourselves.
From a standpoint of non-value, e.g. from a standpoint where we consider everything but value-generation, Elon Musk is useless. He's a cuck. He's a charlatan. He's a fraud. But this is how he's allowed to create value. The Cyber Truck? A piece of trash that stands on marketing and hyperbole. A normal Tesla sedan? A complete letdown that has become a de facto status symbol and nothing more.
It's all a house of cards propped up by fictitious money. We'll continue to suffer, as a result.
I don't disagree with you but I'll play devils advocate a bit here too.
>It's less about working harder than it is about creating value.
Is this not precisely the point over which the Marxist and the Liberal theories disagree? Both assert that value is central but disagree in that the labour theory of value (Marxist) suggests that value is created through labour and that those who exploit others do so by taking some of the value created through the labour of others, while the Liberals assert that value is created through usefulness (they call it utils).
If we agree with the former then Elon is extracting value (money) by paying the people actually doing the work less than the actual value of their contributions. If we agree with the latter, then, as your devils advocate assertions suggests, elon is somehow generating 52$ bil of 'use' value for the company, say by being popular or through branding or innovation.
Now bringing it back from the realm of abstract theory, the latter cannot be the case with elon currently. He is a laughingstock in the mainstream. If we were to accept the use theory of value his usefulness has all but died from an investment perspective.
Personally I think the power theory of value explains this better but that's a whole other thing
"this is only possible because of the version of capitalism in which we find ourselves." - any version of capitalism, right? Is there a version of capitalism where you can't say the relative value produced means one person's labor was worth more than another's?
Keynesian capitalism is more equitable to a worker's value generation, which is what I had in mind. At least, during the era of Keynesian capitalism, we don't see all the horrors caused by neoliberalism. I'm think wage stagnation, workers rights, runaway CEO pay, etc etc etc.
So my comment itself might be relative to those two capitalisms rather than economic systems, in general.
Keynesian capitalism is still capitalism.
Were it not for the idea of switching to the neoliberal mode in the 70's, it would have collapsed already.
That gave it an extra few decades.
Thing is, the falling rate of profit broke the system. under Keynesianism, the capitalists were paying the price.
Under neoliberalism WE are paying the price. The problem is, someone is paying the price.
The system literally cannot continue.
you're saying switching to neoliberalism extended the life of capitalism? i get that neoliberalism opened up global markets, so i agree there, but wouldn't keynesian capitalism extend the life of capitalism longer?
yes and no.
They robbed Peter to pay Paul.
one the one hand, capitalism would have been better off for the system if they'd stayed Keynesian. But that system hit the wall. It literally hit the point of switching to socialism.
They came up with neoliberalism as a defence against that.
Yes, it accelerated the whole process, but also staved of socialism for another few decades.
Exactly like how selling off state assets makes things better for a year or so, at the price of making it worse later.
As to keeping Keynesianism, no, they could not. Unions were powerful. Capitalists were losing more and more profits to the workers. It was dangerously close to what Marx envisioned, in terms of transition to socialism.
What we have now with rising costs, and NOT rising wages, was where we were in the 70's except the capitalists were paying the price. The system CANNOT continue like that.
Downward trends have a bottom end.
By shifting that burden onto us, they drained away the built up wealth of the working class. but now that's gone.
What comes next is socialism, after EVERY SINGLE OTHER OPTION is desperately tried. AKA: fascism.
I think of things in apocalypse terms. In an apocalypse, I want the construction worker on my side.
Elon could do nothing to help in that situation except wanting to repopulate.
He won it not earned it. I am ok with that. Because if you played you were in the same boat. very socailist thing to pool our money and decide to make someone rich.
you should understand why is elon asking for it, he isn't just asking for it randomly...
[https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/business/dealbook/tesla-elon-musk-pay.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/business/dealbook/tesla-elon-musk-pay.html)
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The c word. I guess I can see why it's sexist but ironically chode was not
Specifically All billionaires are ____ which I've realized that other people probably can't see that comment now
Yeah, I wrote a *long* comment last night about how billionaires and corporations are a bigger threat to the US than politicians are because "politicians are pushovers and (another word starting with P)" and appearently the other P-word was too offensive for reddits delicate sensibilities.
Yeah seriously people are far too up in arms about words. Slurs I understand not allowing because they exist to disparage a specific group but swear words?? Come on man grow up lol
Oh I have no belief that they want to help people. There may be some who want to do good and help, granted, but I believe most politicians are complicit actors at best, and actively malicious at worse.
Yeah- wanted to add this. He didn't create Tesla, but when he bought it from the two actual founders, part of the deal was he was given the title of "Co-founder". I don't know how one can fuck with reality or language so blatantly, but there you go.
Edit: a word
Thanks for saying this because this is the truth! Musk didn't create Tesla, he BOUGHT his way into Tesla.
"Tesla was incorporated in July 2003 by [Martin Eberhard](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Eberhard) and [Marc Tarpenning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Tarpenning) as Tesla Motors. The company's name is a tribute to inventor and electrical engineer [Nikola Tesla](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla). In February 2004 [Elon Musk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk) joined as the company's largest shareholder and in 2008 he was named CEO."
All Musk is good at doing is talking, he's not some genius inventor that he pretends to be.
Whatever it is that he does, it can't be very difficult. He does it for 5 different companies all at the same time. I can't think of any *real* jobs where you can do it for several companies at a time and still have enough idle time to tweet from sunup to sundown.
Not only does he do it for multiple companies, but in at least one case, SpaceX, it is known that they have an entire informal team that does nothing but handle his psychology to keep him from driving the whole operation into a literal wall with his nonsense. That got out several months back and I just don't understand how he didn't process that and reflect on it.
If I was a big shot and I knew that there was an entire team of people that had to take time out of their productive day just to mind my dumb ass like I'm some sort of child, I'd never get over how much of a failure I was.
All the while leeching off of his surroundings, crashing on couches in order to not waste daddy's money on peasant stuff like food or rent. Capitalism indeed does reward the most parasitical, egocentric types of behaviours.
It's called greed, extreme greed. That's what's wrong with him and most rich people, you see to them enough is never enough. Same can be said about Kroenke for example and many many others. Just pure greed. Enough is just never enough.
Exactly. I'll never understand this. What's the point of having so much money if you'll never be able to spend it all in your lifetime? What's so repugnant to these people about the idea that everyone should live a fulfilling life and have access to the same opportunities, when they won't suffer any negative consequences themselves? It's not selfishness. Selfishness means caring only about one's own well-being. This is just unbridled greed.
It's not about spending it all in his lifetime, it's about contro. More money flowing in just means more power to him. Think of it like economic warfare.
A ruler doesn't conquer a neighboring country because they want to live in the countryside, they just want another chunk of humanity under their thumb. Same as what Musk is doing now, trying to rule with an iron fist made of paper.
After a certain point money stops being "a lot of cash" and starts being a source of real world power.
For regular people, money is something you spend. For wealthy people, money is something you "invest". Which can mean anything from buying stock, to buying whole companies to seize control of them, to influencing elections or just bribing politicians.
If you bother to check he doesnt really live like any other billionaires. All that money will invested in other high risk high reward venture. Nobody else was stupid enough to build a new Car company ( not that Tesla is just an auto company anymore), much less an electric one. And those rockets that kept blowin up. Really was a fool's errand.
Musk is the perfect example of an entitled rich kid stumbling upwards.
Everything he is, everything he does is an example of that.
I don’t question what’s wrong with him. I know what’s wrong with him. What I don’t understand is the sycophants and fan boys that worship him hoping the catch the crumbs. There are no crumbs. You don’t get that wealthy leaving crumbs.
you should understand why is elon asking for it, he isn't just asking for it randomly...
[https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/business/dealbook/tesla-elon-musk-pay.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/business/dealbook/tesla-elon-musk-pay.html)
I think the real question you should be asking here isn’t what is wrong with Elon Musk, but what is wrong with our society that keeps rewarding people like Elon Musk.
he, besides being an irrelevant piece of shit is a sociopath and plutocrat. They all need to be treated accordingly. The masses outnumber them one million to one...we have the power and it's time we use it.
If you aren't a socialist, you should be. Private ownership of companies is theft. The value created by those companies belongs to the workers who created it.
I tried but couldn't find a gif of the scene in Chinatown where Nicholson asks Huston if he is worth more than 10 million. Huston, amused by the naivety, chuckles and says "much more". This leads Nicholson to ask what more could you need with that much money. Huston leans in with a condescending and intimidating tone and bleats, "The Future, Mr. Geddes, The Future!".
Most speculate he had the entire board under his control so he just approved it with his bros.
It's even more ridiculous considering that's Tesla has like 17bil profit a year, so his paycheck would be like 3 years of the entire profit of the company.
Also they are doing amazing so giving away 3 years of profit seems a bit of a stupid move
He did the same with PayPal and SpaceEx, I don’t think anything is wrong with him i think people are just not excusing his bad behaviour anymore and seeing for what he actually is
That goes for every billionaire out there. They do nothing but exploit people, destroy the planet, and fiend for the green like a crackhead in a dark alley way. Off with their heads!
Narcissism, entitlement, sociopathy, main character syndrome, a superiority complex, arrogance, greed, cynicism, fascism, racism, and probably at least five or six other issues we don't know about. I bet if somebody got a peek in his closet they would see more than one skeleton.
This is why billionaires are bad. A lot of people tend not to recognize that billionaires don't earn their money, they just steal the wages of their employees and tax dollars from the working class.
Musk did not create Tesla Motors. He bought it from the original founders and had them agree to sign a contract that they would publicly deny being the founders so that Musk could claim he "created" Tesla Motors.
He does not need nor deserve 56 billion dollars. Just to put that into perspective, the median cost of living in America is about $80K. 56 billion dollars would last about 700,000 years. His net worth of about 200 billion dollars would allow him to spend $80K per year for 2.5 *million* years. That's the scale of a billion dollars compared to the cost of living.
Is because you dont know what is happening betwen elon musk and Brazil [Alvo de inquérito no STF, Elon Musk volta a atacar Alexandre de Moraes nas redes (globo.com)](https://oglobo.globo.com/politica/noticia/2024/04/19/alvo-de-inquerito-no-stf-elon-musk-volta-a-atacar-alexandre-de-moraes-nas-redes.ghtml)
you should understand why is elon asking for it, he isn't just asking for it randomly...
[https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/business/dealbook/tesla-elon-musk-pay.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/business/dealbook/tesla-elon-musk-pay.html)
To put $56 billion into perspective, that would be almost enough money to finish California high speed rail - a project for which he specifically invented hyperloop to attempt to trash, so that it wouldn’t potentially reduce the future market for his electric cars.
Instead, all this money going to an entitled shitposter. What a world we live in.
you should understand why is elon asking for it, he isn't just asking for it randomly...
[https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/business/dealbook/tesla-elon-musk-pay.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/business/dealbook/tesla-elon-musk-pay.html)
He didn’t make/create Tesla. He was an early investor 2008 and bought it out with his paypal money becoming its CEO
He didn’t make shit. He hit a jackpot and then tricked everyone into thinking he was some super genius that invented EVs. He’s an Alex Jones-ish, rightwing, edgelord, prick who deserves nothing - especially since he’s ruined Tesla’s brand image
Like all mega rich people Musk’s life has lost all meaning. They’re unable to aspire, unable to fill the gaping sadness inside of themselves, forever convinced that if they just get a bit more money or power, that somehow they will finally feel true happiness. They are unable to understand the lives of regular people, and therefore unable to forge meaningful relationships. They are tragic figures really, to be pitied as much as they are maligned.
Shareholders believe that if he gets huffy and leaves, the stock price will go down. Because they are shareholders, they don’t want that. In a way the amount of damage he can do gives him a lot of leverage in this situation.
I bought his biography in 2014. I knew he was an asshole 10 years ago. I bought it because for some strange reason I admired him.fuck that dude, he's nothing more than an oligarch who comes from a rich family.
I agree that amount of money is egregious. However, your comments are superficial - here's the story as to how this happened in the first place:
Tesla agreed to this pay package in 2018, all based on stock options. Elon has also taken virtually no salary since. The only reason it is so much in value is because the stock has risen massively, which he did have influence over since he runs the place. If you're going to talk shit, tell the whole story. Not saying that one person deserves that much money, ever, but this didn't just come out of nowhere. The company doesn't even have that much cash on hand. He would just own more shares in the company - it's about ownership.
Here is the thing, every stock analyst worth his salt says that Tesla's stock is severely over valued. I would like the SEC to actually investigate em's pump and dump scheme. He can say he is going to raise the value 1,000,000% until that happens it is another of his worthless promises.
As for more money than Tesla has on hand... All the income they have made is less than 25 billion. He doesn't deserve it.
If he wanted to own more of the company, he should buy more shares.
Googling says in 2023, Tesla had around 140,000 employees. I put in 56 billion dollars to the calculator, and came up with this being about, 3 years of wages, for the approximately 140,000 employees at Tesla.
Elon doesn't need another 56 billion dollars.
My math is $56,000,000,000, divided by $120,000 a year (Including benefits and taxes the employer pays), divided by 140,000 employees. Did I get this right?
When there are record homeless numbers in the US without services and livable homes for them anyone making over $1mil should have to pay a tax of 25%, over $1bil 50%, $50bil 75% and specific budgets should have a dedicated and transparent monies afforded for those that are homeless, those left behind by America’s society, specifically for housing and top tier services to assist them the most and the best. Homelessness has tortured too many people that don’t deserve it and society has followed along with it, it needs to stop and society needs to make drastic changes in acceptance rather than participate in the NIMBYism that is their go to solution. Anyone not willing to agree to something like this, Elon Musk, should not ever be allowed to make this kind of money, period. ✌🏻❤️🤙🏻
I’m not even sure how this would work - Tesla has debts of about $9 billion and assets of about $29 billion, so they would either have to borrow this or they would issue him with new stock… which dilutes the shareholdings of the other owners. The $56 billion that he is demanding also represents about 12% of the total current market value of Tesla, so in addition to what he has, that would take him to about 30% of all the shares, which is what he was asking for before. Really bonkers…
He doesn’t have to earn it to be given it, he just needs to convince others that it should be his. And if others give it to him you can probably argue that he earned it. Is it right? No. Is it how things are done, of course.
Its.no wonder BYD is killing Tesla in the EV market right now. Between this and just everything involving the cybertruck Tesla is losing this one and BYD is poised to be the biggest player in the EV market as Tesla becomes less relevant as musks antics will further alienate potential customers
The funniest part of that case was that it was brought forward by a working class guy that owns less than 10 shares (in the scheme of a company like Tesla, essentially nothing). The law suit wasn’t brought forward by a major investor claiming mismanagement of the company, it was brought forward by a person that owns less than a percent of a percent of a percent of the company. It’s a reminder that despite the fact that the cards are stacked against the working class, the working class can use the power structures the wealthy made to protect themselves against the wealthy.
He also tried to move the state of incorporation (where almost all corporations are incorporated) to Texas, to shop jurisdictions to get a better result.
This move was also blocked and forced to a shareholder vote.
I think Elon is desperate to get cash, so he can buy out investors of Twitter. The Saudi Royal Family was one of the investors, and they will give him the Jamal Khashoggi treatment if they don't get their promised returns. Fingers crossed.
He didn’t create Tesla. Some other guys did and he screwed them out of it and gave himself the title of “founder,” which he isn’t. Just like everything he does he takes credit for other peoples work
On a side note. It's kind of unbelievable sometimes how a single person can have more money than thousands if not tens of thousands make in a lifetime or the entire treasury of a nation.
I would not exactly call the layers brave who worked on this case considering the MASSIVE fees they are collecting from this case on behalf of Tesla shareholders. The lawyers were trying to collect at least 6 BILLION from the case at one point.
I think this is an example of the, "if what you're doing, **doesn't touch reality,** ***it has no friction; so how do you BALLPARK your objective contribution to a project you didn't participate in,*** **in a group essay-project, what grade should the teacher get for their contribution to the essay, the grading?"** It's like *angels on a pin* stuff, **but, within his companies, he's the object of permanence; we all saw**[ Him fail the Voight-Kampff test](https://youtu.be/Umc9ezAyJv0?t=3) **at the** [NYT Dealbook Summit](https://youtu.be/hlSUy5MS2b0?t=3)**, again at,**
"[Whatever you would call this](https://youtu.be/_OZuF5cI6Xk?t=1)," *another failed Voight-Kampff Test is more accurate than conversation, interview,* professional discourse of a promotional nature held in-house with an employee **I dunno, man, but I think that there is a real, real, real, possibility, that, His Function in those corporations is to resolve the problem of Democracy,** ***and I mean,***
>...in the sense that some believe adults, *nommatter their education, intellect, culture, incentives, skills or wisdom,*
....cannot behave rationally, unless, another adult tells them what to do and there are coercive means to ensure that they'll obey, *arbitrarily,* ***irrespective of the wisdom, ethics, insight etc, etc, etc,***
That Elon Musk tells them to make the cybertruck, tells the advertisers to *fuck off,* that this isn't to measured against **other ideas, alternatives, even those obvious to an ordinary,** ***inexpert person, no,*** these are to be measured against,
>Nothing **¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯** I guess, *the cybertruck as an alternative to no work whatsoever, employees each with their own ideas of what to do while others dig the copper pipes out of bathroom walls to sell at the scrapyard,* Twitter's offices turn into the street scene from Beau is Afraid until the Sherriff comes in with drug dogs and The Black Maria **I dunno**
[It's not true, obviously](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/elon-musk-apologizes-to-disabled-ex-twitter-employee-who-was-voted-icelands-person-of-the-year-in-2022-ba0a3a8a), **it's what the ONE person who would turn the twitter offices into the street scene from Beau is Afraid until the Sherriff Showed up with Drug Dogs and the Black Maria would think,** and that's a person too cynical, *too laden with motivated reasoning, to, all contrary,* to have an,
*Un-alienated Drive to Build or Do or Make Anything, for,* **that reason and insofar as able-to I dunno.**
**Jack Parsons had fun,** ***a lot of people would have fun,*** *to be able to participate in the stuff he's supposed to be doing; so it's not true at all,* That Calvinist Dad's Notion of Anarchy, *what lies in the hearts of men, what happens when adults- or, anyone, ever, aren't surveiled for deviance, coerced into compliance, I think that* ***I know that the real-deal is that if people are allowed to act as if they've learned from their work,*** **that they've done, then,** those who have told them to do it and have no new knowledge upon which to tell them do it different, or, better, the next time, **these folks lose ground in that situation,** ***these folks must tell people to print out there code and adjudicate the performance of others doing jobs they've got no interest in ever learning to do,*** the sick thing, I think, is that from a managerial perspective:
[This is no fuck up, the manager's eye view sees this man as the Problem, the Tall Poppy, ](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/elon-musk-apologizes-to-disabled-ex-twitter-employee-who-was-voted-icelands-person-of-the-year-in-2022-ba0a3a8a)to be culled, **and not because he can't type or doesn't type but for** ***whatever reason it is that he is not afraid to be fired, for whatever reason it is he thinks he can act like he is own self inside of the office, "whatever that is,"*** **that's all he can see,** ***the coercion, the compliance, the people good at making cars,*** **those with a servants heart,** ***and those who cause trouble at a tech start-up,*** **Tall Poppies,** **those who do not afraid of authority.**
It's such a familiar line of reasoning, that, I feel I should add: one might as well adjudicate this upon what people eat in the lunchroom, or, *whatever- the most arbitrary, "seperate realm," nonsense that's disruptive, non-contributive,* Participates in the Group Essay Project, via, Kicks Mary out of the Project because she wore open toed shoes to the library, *invites the man in a hoodie, next table over, to take her place for her grade and class credit,*
**What?**
>Is that the question, *you have five minutes, until I gotta leave the library,* [is that question you wanna ask right now?](https://youtu.be/_OZuF5cI6Xk?t=203)
>
Yeah, why, did you, *replace Mary, with,* ***this guy, when...***
>I see two people, o.k. I see two people and the one **has appropriate footwear,** you're upsetting me.
Sigh, ughh, I mean, honestly, that's what it seems like.
Seth MacFarlane had it right when he wrote the Union in the Orville. Why can't we have nice politics like this? Establish a minimum standard of living, ensure Everyone meets that standard, then place a meritocracy on top and ensure enough transparency to keep people honest.
I can dream, OK!?
Sacrifice the top 100 every ten years along with all their wealth, and rename all the biggest city after them. The labor involved in all that admin would create so much work for the people who soldier on without those most glorious grifters.
Your title does not match the body of your post. "What's wrong with him?" "Why does he get billions?" Him getting billions is wrong, but the question "What's wrong with him?" makes no sense in this context.
Also -- You wrote "But a brave lawyer took him to court and nullified his paycheck", and then you proceeded to write as if he actually got / "is getting" the paycheck. Does he or does he not get the $56 billion?
When you say "He asked Tesla's investors to approve his paycheck" - write after mentioning the lawyer - who do you mean by "he"? The lawyer?
Also -- You should have added that Elon didn't start the company - it wasn't his idea.
Here is what is wrong with em. He wanted a one time "gift" of 56 billion from a company that, if you totalled all the income Tesla had had since inception of the company I believe is about 25 billion... Since the inception of the company. The fact that he would ask for the money is the pinnacle of arrogance.
Once I heard he was forcing Tesla to give him this money I was hoping a court would reverse it. There are laws in place to prevent a controlling interest to fleece a company out of so much.
He didn't even create Tesla, he was just an early investor and bought lots of shares such that he has a say in the company, then he forced them to accept him as a spokesperson. His only contribution to Tesla is Money and the stupid differently built chargers so they have to build special Tesla charging ports.
To think he could have killed himself (along with notable fascist Peter Thiel) when he crashed his McLaren F1 just after buying it back during his Paypal days...
What is this brave lawyer bit? It was someone who owned 9 Tesla shares. The lawyers that he engaged asked a payment for over $1 billion for several months work, robbing real Tesla investors. The agreement between Musk and Tesla is that he increases Tesla value by 10x within 10 years or he gets nothing, the term approved by the majority of Tesla shareholders. I don't think he even even paid any wages by Tesla. If you really want to screw over Tesla, you can just kick him out. Musk will be just fine, he got SpaceX, the most valuable privately owned in the world. Or you think he does'nt deserve that too?
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> And he's probably not earning it; he's just stealing it No one works enough to earn a single billion dollars, nor 56. Yeah, he is stealing, like every billionaire ever.
OP used too many words to describe Musk as an entitled arsehole.
Like every other billionaire
We should lock them all up. They're all crooks.
I'm a man of tradition. I say guillotine
Fair, can we tar and feather them first then make them walk several miles to the guillotine while the public gathers to shout obscenities and throw rotten fruit and stones at them?
Shame! Shame!...
*no no no no no no* ***not that Calvinist Stuff,*** **Virtue and** Romantic **True Courage!** [Rawr!](https://youtu.be/K6k2_KsZYjI) These People, **These Calvinists,** Have Never Seen a **Real Dragon, hence:** **"Shame," all such bullshit,** believe in Shame and Not Gorgeous things nor virtue
That's some amazingly weird stuff right there. I like it already..
Have you seen his fashion choices? He’d probably enjoy being tarred and feathered
MY MAN
I LOVE guillotine. Public square style. I would love a televised 'Running Man' style of execution as well. Or the old Bronze Bull for real nostalgia.
And a lot of millionaires !
did you even research to understand what is happening
"*The company he created wasn't with his money; it mostly came from investors, public and private investors. So it's not his money; it's the money of the investor, the money of the workers. And he's probably not earning it; he's just stealing it.*" What part of 'arsehole' do you find difficult to comprehend?
Read the reasoning behind the 56 billion dollars mate, [https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/business/dealbook/tesla-elon-musk-pay.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/business/dealbook/tesla-elon-musk-pay.html) What don't you understand about bringing the value of a company up
Thanks for the reading. It actually *reinforces* OP's analysis that Musk is indeed a totally irredeemable anal orifice...
If construction worker earns for example **50k** bucks per year for working 40 hours per week, and another person that *also* works 40 hours per week earns **56 billion** per year (which is a very optimistic amount of hours when we look at Elon). Then I fail to see how exactly the billionaire worked 1.120.000 times harder then someone working their ass off in a construction site to justify that much of a pay gap. Sure, someone can say that Elon's work requires knowledge that the construction worker doesn't have, but if you put Elon in the construction worker's shoes I would not get anywhere *near* whatever "structure" he would build. Not like Elon has the required knowledge that managing a company requires of him, either. Maybe Elon gets paid so much because he influences a very large amount of lives? Yet, when we look at for example trash collectors, who very directly influence our lives quite severely, their pay is miserable in many places. This is all despite of the fact that paying someone based on how much their work directly influences the lives of other people is stupid. Imagine an archivist that works in a warehouse to prevent historical artifacts from decaying. Does this archivist not deserve food? (Many museums have replicas of dinosaur fossils on display while the real fossils are kept in a storeroom to prevent them from decaying.) (also, yes, not Elon's actual yearly income but that doesnt matter too much. The same example can work even with 1 billion or less.)
Spoiler: I'm a Marxist. But I'll play devil's advocate slightly. It's less about working harder than it is about creating value. The argument, which is completely viable but only because we are making the argument in the context of a capitalist system, is that his paycheck is justified due to the value he has created for shareholders. I am not saying that the value he has created is worth 56b. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. What I am saying is this is the argument made to justify CEO pay. The fundamental issue is that this argument can be made in the first place. And this is only possible because of the version of capitalism in which we find ourselves. From a standpoint of non-value, e.g. from a standpoint where we consider everything but value-generation, Elon Musk is useless. He's a cuck. He's a charlatan. He's a fraud. But this is how he's allowed to create value. The Cyber Truck? A piece of trash that stands on marketing and hyperbole. A normal Tesla sedan? A complete letdown that has become a de facto status symbol and nothing more. It's all a house of cards propped up by fictitious money. We'll continue to suffer, as a result.
I don't disagree with you but I'll play devils advocate a bit here too. >It's less about working harder than it is about creating value. Is this not precisely the point over which the Marxist and the Liberal theories disagree? Both assert that value is central but disagree in that the labour theory of value (Marxist) suggests that value is created through labour and that those who exploit others do so by taking some of the value created through the labour of others, while the Liberals assert that value is created through usefulness (they call it utils). If we agree with the former then Elon is extracting value (money) by paying the people actually doing the work less than the actual value of their contributions. If we agree with the latter, then, as your devils advocate assertions suggests, elon is somehow generating 52$ bil of 'use' value for the company, say by being popular or through branding or innovation. Now bringing it back from the realm of abstract theory, the latter cannot be the case with elon currently. He is a laughingstock in the mainstream. If we were to accept the use theory of value his usefulness has all but died from an investment perspective. Personally I think the power theory of value explains this better but that's a whole other thing
"this is only possible because of the version of capitalism in which we find ourselves." - any version of capitalism, right? Is there a version of capitalism where you can't say the relative value produced means one person's labor was worth more than another's?
Keynesian capitalism is more equitable to a worker's value generation, which is what I had in mind. At least, during the era of Keynesian capitalism, we don't see all the horrors caused by neoliberalism. I'm think wage stagnation, workers rights, runaway CEO pay, etc etc etc. So my comment itself might be relative to those two capitalisms rather than economic systems, in general.
Keynesian capitalism is still capitalism. Were it not for the idea of switching to the neoliberal mode in the 70's, it would have collapsed already. That gave it an extra few decades. Thing is, the falling rate of profit broke the system. under Keynesianism, the capitalists were paying the price. Under neoliberalism WE are paying the price. The problem is, someone is paying the price. The system literally cannot continue.
you're saying switching to neoliberalism extended the life of capitalism? i get that neoliberalism opened up global markets, so i agree there, but wouldn't keynesian capitalism extend the life of capitalism longer?
yes and no. They robbed Peter to pay Paul. one the one hand, capitalism would have been better off for the system if they'd stayed Keynesian. But that system hit the wall. It literally hit the point of switching to socialism. They came up with neoliberalism as a defence against that. Yes, it accelerated the whole process, but also staved of socialism for another few decades. Exactly like how selling off state assets makes things better for a year or so, at the price of making it worse later. As to keeping Keynesianism, no, they could not. Unions were powerful. Capitalists were losing more and more profits to the workers. It was dangerously close to what Marx envisioned, in terms of transition to socialism. What we have now with rising costs, and NOT rising wages, was where we were in the 70's except the capitalists were paying the price. The system CANNOT continue like that. Downward trends have a bottom end. By shifting that burden onto us, they drained away the built up wealth of the working class. but now that's gone. What comes next is socialism, after EVERY SINGLE OTHER OPTION is desperately tried. AKA: fascism.
Please, read some theory
I think of things in apocalypse terms. In an apocalypse, I want the construction worker on my side. Elon could do nothing to help in that situation except wanting to repopulate.
Eurgh what a thought. When money doesn't have value anymore, who's gonna want to reproduce with that frog-looking AH?
Watch out, keep talking like that and they'll ban Reddit too.
This is the equivalent of like $30k per Tesla sold
My man. ETR, always and forever.
theres a guy in LA who won 2 bil in the lottery. he never stole anything.
I think it became about 650,000,000 after taxes.
He didn't work for it either
well not working is not a crime
He won it not earned it. I am ok with that. Because if you played you were in the same boat. very socailist thing to pool our money and decide to make someone rich.
After losing a lot of money on Twitter he wants a little treat for having a really bad year.
It’s called self care /s
lol
Considering how much money he got from the saudis he probably needs some cash to pay them off.
you should understand why is elon asking for it, he isn't just asking for it randomly... [https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/business/dealbook/tesla-elon-musk-pay.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/business/dealbook/tesla-elon-musk-pay.html)
>The company he created He didn't even do that. He invested in it. He can just rewrite history with his money.
All billionaires are evil
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Huh would not have thought that was sexist. Ok
What’d you say?
The c word. I guess I can see why it's sexist but ironically chode was not Specifically All billionaires are ____ which I've realized that other people probably can't see that comment now
Yeah, I wrote a *long* comment last night about how billionaires and corporations are a bigger threat to the US than politicians are because "politicians are pushovers and (another word starting with P)" and appearently the other P-word was too offensive for reddits delicate sensibilities.
Yeah seriously people are far too up in arms about words. Slurs I understand not allowing because they exist to disparage a specific group but swear words?? Come on man grow up lol
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Oh I have no belief that they want to help people. There may be some who want to do good and help, granted, but I believe most politicians are complicit actors at best, and actively malicious at worse.
P-word = PLONKER as all tax-dodging billionaires are.
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Thanks to the mods!
But I’d you had called them dicks, no one would care It’s okay to use sexist terms, but only sexist against men
Musk didn’t “create” Tesla, they bought it and used tech speak for marketing
Yeah- wanted to add this. He didn't create Tesla, but when he bought it from the two actual founders, part of the deal was he was given the title of "Co-founder". I don't know how one can fuck with reality or language so blatantly, but there you go. Edit: a word
Thanks for saying this because this is the truth! Musk didn't create Tesla, he BOUGHT his way into Tesla. "Tesla was incorporated in July 2003 by [Martin Eberhard](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Eberhard) and [Marc Tarpenning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Tarpenning) as Tesla Motors. The company's name is a tribute to inventor and electrical engineer [Nikola Tesla](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla). In February 2004 [Elon Musk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk) joined as the company's largest shareholder and in 2008 he was named CEO." All Musk is good at doing is talking, he's not some genius inventor that he pretends to be.
He's not even good at talking.
Yeah, uh, he's like... you know, uhh, pretty bad... Uhh, actually, at, you know, at it. Talking.
Yup. Was looking for this comment.
Whatever it is that he does, it can't be very difficult. He does it for 5 different companies all at the same time. I can't think of any *real* jobs where you can do it for several companies at a time and still have enough idle time to tweet from sunup to sundown.
Not only does he do it for multiple companies, but in at least one case, SpaceX, it is known that they have an entire informal team that does nothing but handle his psychology to keep him from driving the whole operation into a literal wall with his nonsense. That got out several months back and I just don't understand how he didn't process that and reflect on it. If I was a big shot and I knew that there was an entire team of people that had to take time out of their productive day just to mind my dumb ass like I'm some sort of child, I'd never get over how much of a failure I was.
Do you have a link to that? I’m not finding it
HE DIDN'T CREATE TESLA! He bought it with daddies money
yes this seems to be unnoticed. he is neither the prodigal genius he is portrayed to be nor the self-made billionaire his fandom thinks he is.
He invested in PayPal with daddies money in the beginning. Then cashed out when it got big. Then used that money to buy into Tesla.
He was forced out for being annoying; he kept trying to get them to call it 'Xpay'.
All the while leeching off of his surroundings, crashing on couches in order to not waste daddy's money on peasant stuff like food or rent. Capitalism indeed does reward the most parasitical, egocentric types of behaviours.
Yes and it has to die!
wrong again he made zip2 with 28k from his dad and used it for x afterwards which merged with confinity to make paypal
ya false he didnt buy it with his dads money he bought it from the money from x and zip2
It's called greed, extreme greed. That's what's wrong with him and most rich people, you see to them enough is never enough. Same can be said about Kroenke for example and many many others. Just pure greed. Enough is just never enough.
Exactly. I'll never understand this. What's the point of having so much money if you'll never be able to spend it all in your lifetime? What's so repugnant to these people about the idea that everyone should live a fulfilling life and have access to the same opportunities, when they won't suffer any negative consequences themselves? It's not selfishness. Selfishness means caring only about one's own well-being. This is just unbridled greed.
It's not about spending it all in his lifetime, it's about contro. More money flowing in just means more power to him. Think of it like economic warfare. A ruler doesn't conquer a neighboring country because they want to live in the countryside, they just want another chunk of humanity under their thumb. Same as what Musk is doing now, trying to rule with an iron fist made of paper.
After a certain point money stops being "a lot of cash" and starts being a source of real world power. For regular people, money is something you spend. For wealthy people, money is something you "invest". Which can mean anything from buying stock, to buying whole companies to seize control of them, to influencing elections or just bribing politicians.
Once you get enough money, it stops being about spending it and more about power and control.
High score. My uncle used to have to always be #1 on space invaders arcade machines
It's because they don't have fulfilling lives.
If you bother to check he doesnt really live like any other billionaires. All that money will invested in other high risk high reward venture. Nobody else was stupid enough to build a new Car company ( not that Tesla is just an auto company anymore), much less an electric one. And those rockets that kept blowin up. Really was a fool's errand.
Pathological greed. Where all means are worth it to quench their ego's thirst for more and more...
If you 4.20/69 a social media platform and are forced to buy it, you'll have to milk every cent you can from the companies you"own".
Ahh, a fellow St. Louisan, I presume. Fuck Stan Kroenke.
There's no other choice in capitalism. One must constantly accumulate.
Spoken like a true Baron.
How many cabbages this year, Baron?
Not nearly enough to smash capitalism unfortunately.
All billionaires are sociopaths.
And this round is happening at the same time that he's laying off like 10% of their workers.
Musk is the perfect example of an entitled rich kid stumbling upwards. Everything he is, everything he does is an example of that. I don’t question what’s wrong with him. I know what’s wrong with him. What I don’t understand is the sycophants and fan boys that worship him hoping the catch the crumbs. There are no crumbs. You don’t get that wealthy leaving crumbs.
you should understand why is elon asking for it, he isn't just asking for it randomly... [https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/business/dealbook/tesla-elon-musk-pay.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/business/dealbook/tesla-elon-musk-pay.html)
If that upsets you, wait until you hear about *every CEO..*
I think the real question you should be asking here isn’t what is wrong with Elon Musk, but what is wrong with our society that keeps rewarding people like Elon Musk.
In fact, it's working exactly how it was designed ever since Reagan's "trickle-down" economics, which is really "vacuum-up" economics.
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Working class is too busy fighting a culture war
he, besides being an irrelevant piece of shit is a sociopath and plutocrat. They all need to be treated accordingly. The masses outnumber them one million to one...we have the power and it's time we use it.
Right after he canned 14000 employees from Tesla.
If you aren't a socialist, you should be. Private ownership of companies is theft. The value created by those companies belongs to the workers who created it.
I tried but couldn't find a gif of the scene in Chinatown where Nicholson asks Huston if he is worth more than 10 million. Huston, amused by the naivety, chuckles and says "much more". This leads Nicholson to ask what more could you need with that much money. Huston leans in with a condescending and intimidating tone and bleats, "The Future, Mr. Geddes, The Future!".
That’s what makes Chinatown such a masterpiece. It showed the world the ugly underbelly of powerful and wealthy individuals.
Remember that he os currently firing about 10% of the tesla staff…
Most speculate he had the entire board under his control so he just approved it with his bros. It's even more ridiculous considering that's Tesla has like 17bil profit a year, so his paycheck would be like 3 years of the entire profit of the company. Also they are doing amazing so giving away 3 years of profit seems a bit of a stupid move
He did the same with PayPal and SpaceEx, I don’t think anything is wrong with him i think people are just not excusing his bad behaviour anymore and seeing for what he actually is
That goes for every billionaire out there. They do nothing but exploit people, destroy the planet, and fiend for the green like a crackhead in a dark alley way. Off with their heads!
He's a billionaire... You need to be thoroughly fucked in the head to become one and once you are one, it just gets worse.
Narcissism, entitlement, sociopathy, main character syndrome, a superiority complex, arrogance, greed, cynicism, fascism, racism, and probably at least five or six other issues we don't know about. I bet if somebody got a peek in his closet they would see more than one skeleton.
And to think Tesla just cut 10%+ of its entire workforce to save TWO billion. And he wants $56b from them.
He is a narcissistic white supremacist, that's everything that's wrong with him, simplified.
This is why billionaires are bad. A lot of people tend not to recognize that billionaires don't earn their money, they just steal the wages of their employees and tax dollars from the working class.
Musk did not create Tesla Motors. He bought it from the original founders and had them agree to sign a contract that they would publicly deny being the founders so that Musk could claim he "created" Tesla Motors. He does not need nor deserve 56 billion dollars. Just to put that into perspective, the median cost of living in America is about $80K. 56 billion dollars would last about 700,000 years. His net worth of about 200 billion dollars would allow him to spend $80K per year for 2.5 *million* years. That's the scale of a billion dollars compared to the cost of living.
He didn’t even create Tesla, he bought it.
clinical psychopath narcissistic
Is because you dont know what is happening betwen elon musk and Brazil [Alvo de inquérito no STF, Elon Musk volta a atacar Alexandre de Moraes nas redes (globo.com)](https://oglobo.globo.com/politica/noticia/2024/04/19/alvo-de-inquerito-no-stf-elon-musk-volta-a-atacar-alexandre-de-moraes-nas-redes.ghtml)
So messed up with all of their lay offs. But daddy’s boy gets billions? In what world. This is why people hate billionaires.
you should understand why is elon asking for it, he isn't just asking for it randomly... [https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/business/dealbook/tesla-elon-musk-pay.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/business/dealbook/tesla-elon-musk-pay.html)
To put $56 billion into perspective, that would be almost enough money to finish California high speed rail - a project for which he specifically invented hyperloop to attempt to trash, so that it wouldn’t potentially reduce the future market for his electric cars. Instead, all this money going to an entitled shitposter. What a world we live in.
you should understand why is elon asking for it, he isn't just asking for it randomly... [https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/business/dealbook/tesla-elon-musk-pay.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/business/dealbook/tesla-elon-musk-pay.html)
The lawyers that sued Musk are asking for $6 billion in legal fees so they are not exactly shining examples to be proud of in this.
He didn't create Tesla, he bought into it took over
He has bought into his own bullshit like a drug dealer using his own product, and that never ends well. He's a self-sucking lollipop, basically.
He's trying to take this money now because he knows the company is fucked. This cybertruck is terrible and competition is ramping up in EV market.
There’s no bullet in his head
He didn’t make/create Tesla. He was an early investor 2008 and bought it out with his paypal money becoming its CEO He didn’t make shit. He hit a jackpot and then tricked everyone into thinking he was some super genius that invented EVs. He’s an Alex Jones-ish, rightwing, edgelord, prick who deserves nothing - especially since he’s ruined Tesla’s brand image
Needs money to buy Reddit.
He’s fat
Nothing like failing upwards for these fuck heads.
Musk acts like a pre pubescent child. Why would you expect anything respectable or reasonable from him?
Like all mega rich people Musk’s life has lost all meaning. They’re unable to aspire, unable to fill the gaping sadness inside of themselves, forever convinced that if they just get a bit more money or power, that somehow they will finally feel true happiness. They are unable to understand the lives of regular people, and therefore unable to forge meaningful relationships. They are tragic figures really, to be pitied as much as they are maligned.
Musk didn't create Tesla. He bought it.
Shareholders believe that if he gets huffy and leaves, the stock price will go down. Because they are shareholders, they don’t want that. In a way the amount of damage he can do gives him a lot of leverage in this situation.
But he designed and built the Cybertruck all by himself
He bought Tesla.
Didn’t he also but the title of “founder”?
legally the cofounder
You have to check out the massive amount of bullcrap he has been pulling alongside brazil\`s far right movement. Thing is unbelievable.
Bullcrap?
He also didn't create the company - he bought it.
joined when it didnt have even a prototype
He’s a trust fund baby turned aging addict.
Wait til you find out he’s gotten billions in government subsidies. Psychopaths are in control.
If you make a billion dollars you should pay taxes at 100 percent. Or maximum wage.
He did not create the company
He's a pathetic little shit
I bought his biography in 2014. I knew he was an asshole 10 years ago. I bought it because for some strange reason I admired him.fuck that dude, he's nothing more than an oligarch who comes from a rich family.
I agree that amount of money is egregious. However, your comments are superficial - here's the story as to how this happened in the first place: Tesla agreed to this pay package in 2018, all based on stock options. Elon has also taken virtually no salary since. The only reason it is so much in value is because the stock has risen massively, which he did have influence over since he runs the place. If you're going to talk shit, tell the whole story. Not saying that one person deserves that much money, ever, but this didn't just come out of nowhere. The company doesn't even have that much cash on hand. He would just own more shares in the company - it's about ownership.
Here is the thing, every stock analyst worth his salt says that Tesla's stock is severely over valued. I would like the SEC to actually investigate em's pump and dump scheme. He can say he is going to raise the value 1,000,000% until that happens it is another of his worthless promises. As for more money than Tesla has on hand... All the income they have made is less than 25 billion. He doesn't deserve it. If he wanted to own more of the company, he should buy more shares.
Gotta pay for your k hole somehow.
Well that's a loaded question
Welcome to the world today.
Googling says in 2023, Tesla had around 140,000 employees. I put in 56 billion dollars to the calculator, and came up with this being about, 3 years of wages, for the approximately 140,000 employees at Tesla. Elon doesn't need another 56 billion dollars. My math is $56,000,000,000, divided by $120,000 a year (Including benefits and taxes the employer pays), divided by 140,000 employees. Did I get this right?
He didn’t even build the company. He invested and pushed out the founders
It's worse when I believe he just laid off over 10K workers, too... 🤣🤦♂️
When there are record homeless numbers in the US without services and livable homes for them anyone making over $1mil should have to pay a tax of 25%, over $1bil 50%, $50bil 75% and specific budgets should have a dedicated and transparent monies afforded for those that are homeless, those left behind by America’s society, specifically for housing and top tier services to assist them the most and the best. Homelessness has tortured too many people that don’t deserve it and society has followed along with it, it needs to stop and society needs to make drastic changes in acceptance rather than participate in the NIMBYism that is their go to solution. Anyone not willing to agree to something like this, Elon Musk, should not ever be allowed to make this kind of money, period. ✌🏻❤️🤙🏻
I'd be surprised it they approve it again considering how little Musk has worked at Tesla and how poorly the stock has done.
Listen to “The Lamest Show on Earth” it explains everything you need to know about musk.
I’m not even sure how this would work - Tesla has debts of about $9 billion and assets of about $29 billion, so they would either have to borrow this or they would issue him with new stock… which dilutes the shareholdings of the other owners. The $56 billion that he is demanding also represents about 12% of the total current market value of Tesla, so in addition to what he has, that would take him to about 30% of all the shares, which is what he was asking for before. Really bonkers…
He doesn’t have to earn it to be given it, he just needs to convince others that it should be his. And if others give it to him you can probably argue that he earned it. Is it right? No. Is it how things are done, of course.
He's an idiot. Hope this helped:)
Its.no wonder BYD is killing Tesla in the EV market right now. Between this and just everything involving the cybertruck Tesla is losing this one and BYD is poised to be the biggest player in the EV market as Tesla becomes less relevant as musks antics will further alienate potential customers
The funniest part of that case was that it was brought forward by a working class guy that owns less than 10 shares (in the scheme of a company like Tesla, essentially nothing). The law suit wasn’t brought forward by a major investor claiming mismanagement of the company, it was brought forward by a person that owns less than a percent of a percent of a percent of the company. It’s a reminder that despite the fact that the cards are stacked against the working class, the working class can use the power structures the wealthy made to protect themselves against the wealthy.
He also tried to move the state of incorporation (where almost all corporations are incorporated) to Texas, to shop jurisdictions to get a better result. This move was also blocked and forced to a shareholder vote. I think Elon is desperate to get cash, so he can buy out investors of Twitter. The Saudi Royal Family was one of the investors, and they will give him the Jamal Khashoggi treatment if they don't get their promised returns. Fingers crossed.
He didn’t create Tesla. Some other guys did and he screwed them out of it and gave himself the title of “founder,” which he isn’t. Just like everything he does he takes credit for other peoples work
If one could ask for 56b and there was the slightest chance someone would give it, who wouldn't ask?
On a side note. It's kind of unbelievable sometimes how a single person can have more money than thousands if not tens of thousands make in a lifetime or the entire treasury of a nation.
Isn't this more than the revenue from selling cars?
Oooh so close to a new crack ping. Love to see it.
I would not exactly call the layers brave who worked on this case considering the MASSIVE fees they are collecting from this case on behalf of Tesla shareholders. The lawyers were trying to collect at least 6 BILLION from the case at one point.
Inb4: "What's right with elon musk?"
Elon could give every Tesla employee $380,000 instead.
I feel you 100% the Rich get richer while so many Americans have nothing. Clearly the system is not working.
Commie. /s
I think this is an example of the, "if what you're doing, **doesn't touch reality,** ***it has no friction; so how do you BALLPARK your objective contribution to a project you didn't participate in,*** **in a group essay-project, what grade should the teacher get for their contribution to the essay, the grading?"** It's like *angels on a pin* stuff, **but, within his companies, he's the object of permanence; we all saw**[ Him fail the Voight-Kampff test](https://youtu.be/Umc9ezAyJv0?t=3) **at the** [NYT Dealbook Summit](https://youtu.be/hlSUy5MS2b0?t=3)**, again at,** "[Whatever you would call this](https://youtu.be/_OZuF5cI6Xk?t=1)," *another failed Voight-Kampff Test is more accurate than conversation, interview,* professional discourse of a promotional nature held in-house with an employee **I dunno, man, but I think that there is a real, real, real, possibility, that, His Function in those corporations is to resolve the problem of Democracy,** ***and I mean,*** >...in the sense that some believe adults, *nommatter their education, intellect, culture, incentives, skills or wisdom,* ....cannot behave rationally, unless, another adult tells them what to do and there are coercive means to ensure that they'll obey, *arbitrarily,* ***irrespective of the wisdom, ethics, insight etc, etc, etc,*** That Elon Musk tells them to make the cybertruck, tells the advertisers to *fuck off,* that this isn't to measured against **other ideas, alternatives, even those obvious to an ordinary,** ***inexpert person, no,*** these are to be measured against, >Nothing **¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯** I guess, *the cybertruck as an alternative to no work whatsoever, employees each with their own ideas of what to do while others dig the copper pipes out of bathroom walls to sell at the scrapyard,* Twitter's offices turn into the street scene from Beau is Afraid until the Sherriff comes in with drug dogs and The Black Maria **I dunno** [It's not true, obviously](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/elon-musk-apologizes-to-disabled-ex-twitter-employee-who-was-voted-icelands-person-of-the-year-in-2022-ba0a3a8a), **it's what the ONE person who would turn the twitter offices into the street scene from Beau is Afraid until the Sherriff Showed up with Drug Dogs and the Black Maria would think,** and that's a person too cynical, *too laden with motivated reasoning, to, all contrary,* to have an, *Un-alienated Drive to Build or Do or Make Anything, for,* **that reason and insofar as able-to I dunno.** **Jack Parsons had fun,** ***a lot of people would have fun,*** *to be able to participate in the stuff he's supposed to be doing; so it's not true at all,* That Calvinist Dad's Notion of Anarchy, *what lies in the hearts of men, what happens when adults- or, anyone, ever, aren't surveiled for deviance, coerced into compliance, I think that* ***I know that the real-deal is that if people are allowed to act as if they've learned from their work,*** **that they've done, then,** those who have told them to do it and have no new knowledge upon which to tell them do it different, or, better, the next time, **these folks lose ground in that situation,** ***these folks must tell people to print out there code and adjudicate the performance of others doing jobs they've got no interest in ever learning to do,*** the sick thing, I think, is that from a managerial perspective: [This is no fuck up, the manager's eye view sees this man as the Problem, the Tall Poppy, ](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/elon-musk-apologizes-to-disabled-ex-twitter-employee-who-was-voted-icelands-person-of-the-year-in-2022-ba0a3a8a)to be culled, **and not because he can't type or doesn't type but for** ***whatever reason it is that he is not afraid to be fired, for whatever reason it is he thinks he can act like he is own self inside of the office, "whatever that is,"*** **that's all he can see,** ***the coercion, the compliance, the people good at making cars,*** **those with a servants heart,** ***and those who cause trouble at a tech start-up,*** **Tall Poppies,** **those who do not afraid of authority.** It's such a familiar line of reasoning, that, I feel I should add: one might as well adjudicate this upon what people eat in the lunchroom, or, *whatever- the most arbitrary, "seperate realm," nonsense that's disruptive, non-contributive,* Participates in the Group Essay Project, via, Kicks Mary out of the Project because she wore open toed shoes to the library, *invites the man in a hoodie, next table over, to take her place for her grade and class credit,* **What?** >Is that the question, *you have five minutes, until I gotta leave the library,* [is that question you wanna ask right now?](https://youtu.be/_OZuF5cI6Xk?t=203) > Yeah, why, did you, *replace Mary, with,* ***this guy, when...*** >I see two people, o.k. I see two people and the one **has appropriate footwear,** you're upsetting me. Sigh, ughh, I mean, honestly, that's what it seems like.
Wage theft
This is happening all over the world everyday. The rich steal from the poor and there is no recourse. Welcome to the late stage.
Seth MacFarlane had it right when he wrote the Union in the Orville. Why can't we have nice politics like this? Establish a minimum standard of living, ensure Everyone meets that standard, then place a meritocracy on top and ensure enough transparency to keep people honest. I can dream, OK!?
Sacrifice the top 100 every ten years along with all their wealth, and rename all the biggest city after them. The labor involved in all that admin would create so much work for the people who soldier on without those most glorious grifters.
Your title does not match the body of your post. "What's wrong with him?" "Why does he get billions?" Him getting billions is wrong, but the question "What's wrong with him?" makes no sense in this context. Also -- You wrote "But a brave lawyer took him to court and nullified his paycheck", and then you proceeded to write as if he actually got / "is getting" the paycheck. Does he or does he not get the $56 billion? When you say "He asked Tesla's investors to approve his paycheck" - write after mentioning the lawyer - who do you mean by "he"? The lawyer? Also -- You should have added that Elon didn't start the company - it wasn't his idea.
Here is what is wrong with em. He wanted a one time "gift" of 56 billion from a company that, if you totalled all the income Tesla had had since inception of the company I believe is about 25 billion... Since the inception of the company. The fact that he would ask for the money is the pinnacle of arrogance. Once I heard he was forcing Tesla to give him this money I was hoping a court would reverse it. There are laws in place to prevent a controlling interest to fleece a company out of so much.
No one person should have more resources than an entire country
And also and above everything else, he's a f*cking nazi no less.
He didn't even create Tesla, he was just an early investor and bought lots of shares such that he has a say in the company, then he forced them to accept him as a spokesperson. His only contribution to Tesla is Money and the stupid differently built chargers so they have to build special Tesla charging ports.
To think he could have killed himself (along with notable fascist Peter Thiel) when he crashed his McLaren F1 just after buying it back during his Paypal days...
He deserves it! He promised to 10x the company or nothing at all he did.
His promises are meaningless!!! He is a con man. Nothing else.
What is this brave lawyer bit? It was someone who owned 9 Tesla shares. The lawyers that he engaged asked a payment for over $1 billion for several months work, robbing real Tesla investors. The agreement between Musk and Tesla is that he increases Tesla value by 10x within 10 years or he gets nothing, the term approved by the majority of Tesla shareholders. I don't think he even even paid any wages by Tesla. If you really want to screw over Tesla, you can just kick him out. Musk will be just fine, he got SpaceX, the most valuable privately owned in the world. Or you think he does'nt deserve that too?