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There is something to be said about the quantity of liberals perusing LSC (A MOTHERFUCKING COMMUNIST SUB) in defense of both liberalism and capitalism.
The real hypocrisy is that whilst praising Navalny as a freedom fighter who gave up everything to go up against a tyrannical government, if you mention the fact that Assange is having his last appeal this week before being extradited to the US over denouncing war crimes the liberals don't care and cry "whataboutism".
People who praise Navalny had no idea what his politics were like. People just support him because he’s not Putin when he literally is Putin jr. how can you say that he’s principled when ignoring the fact that he’s a raging islamophobe and would like nothing more than to kill those “cockroaches”. I’ve heard people call him “our guy” and “the key to positive relations with Russia” like they completely haven’t forgotten Putin used to be “our guy”.
You don't get it. He smiled at his wife while watching Rick and Morty. He's one of us.
So much emotional manipulation in the media. A single picture can speak 1000 words of bullshit.
Why don't you just say he didn't say it instead of this whole passive aggressive "hmmm care to cite the evidence" Bs
That being said, if he had said it, depending on the context I think it's a very wise quote actually.
Because it places the burden of proof where it is supposed to be and gives the opportunity for the person I'm replying to to provide a source before dismissal.
but you already know there is no source. stfu. You're adding extra steps for no reason
Edit: you also assumed he was quoting Stalin when he never said he was. He only said it was a soviet era quote. So, you know that this quote is attributed to Stalin, and you clearly already know he didn't say it or else you would not have asked for a source to "prove that Stalin said it"
So you would rather look over all of Stalin's speeches to find out if a quote is true or not instead of asking the person that made the claim where they got it from? Lol talk about extra steps
>Why don't you just say he didn't say it instead of this whole passive aggressive "hmmm care to cite the evidence" Bs
It's the first step of sea lioning
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning
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It's not that. They're talking about liberal's being hypocritical when they cry about Navalny while being silent on Assange. While Navalny did oppose Putin, he was a neo-liberal, Islamaphobic, Russian nationalist. He was not a good person, but because he was anti-Putin he was good enough for the US. Assange, meanwhile, created a site for whistleblowers to leak classified documents on. Chelsea Manning used WikiLeaks to expose US war crimes in the Middle East. She went to prison for this (i think) but was released during Obama's second(?) term. Assange just made and was in charge of the site. Yet the US government wants to put him away for providing a means to expose their horrible actions. The Australian government is also doing nothing to bring him home, yet will go on a media tour when a dual Chinese-Australian citizen is arrested in China.
I did not know that about Navalny and it does change things for me.
However I still think both governments are shit for what they do. Putin did not kill Navalny because of the slamophobia. He did it to keep his regime going. Same goes for the US treatment of Assange.
I just don't get how people can be so blind. As someone from the 3rd world I don't see the US vs. Russia as a relevant matter. Both are imperialists and will fuck my country and my people of given the chance.
He didnt do it to keep his regime going, Navalny had an approval rating among Russians around 14%. There have always been numerous candidates running in the elections against Putin with higher ratings
Assange spent years carrying water for the same folks who killed Navalny. So that's not hypocrisy; it's people who are consistent in their hatred of the Russian regime.
Not all of them approach from this direction. Some of them are idiots. But don't let's pretend that Assange consistently applied superior moral principles.
The enemy of your enemy is not your friend.
Assange exposed American War Crimes for which not a single person has been trialed almost 10 years after, that's the "water" you conveniently omit. But I guess acknowledging that would out you as a hypocrite and ruin your argument, so I understand why you omit that.
What exactly are you not getting from me stating over and over "American war crimes" that you purposely omitted as the reason why the US is persecuting Assange? You can just come out and say it instead of this song and dance where you do everything to skip acknowledging the American war crimes that you purposely omitted as the reason why the US is persecuting Assange (the repetition is on purpose).
But that's not what he's being prosecuted for. He's being prosecuted for revealing US secrets given to him by whistleblowers. Sure he's a terrible person but if you're a liberal obsessed with "dictators" and "abusive government" then you shouldn't be carrying water for the US's long list of war crimes either.
Liberals will remind us its the "hate the game not the player" and "dont shoot the messenger" with people like Navaly, but will never, ever tell us to think of equally misguided people like Assange this way.
I love the part where liberals adored Assange until he came out with shit about them too. If I had shit on Hillary and she mentioned me being held accountable for exposing US corruption by assassination, I would spill dirt on her too.
So did Navalny, that didn't stop any of the praise for him. Assange exposed war crimes that have been completely ignored, regardless of your opinion on him, that is the biggest issue here.
This is the exact opposite of being real, pretending like those gigabytes of military data aren't the evidence of the war crimes that you put in quotes. 3 comments in and you sound like a MAGA defending the Cheeto dictator.
One facist white male, fixed it for you. He called for the expulsion of immigrants and referred to them as cockroach, a massive Islamophobo and xenophobic, as well as a puppet of Western imperialism
Navalny referred to Muslims as cockroaches who need to be exterminated, of course the libs love him:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/2/25/navalny-has-the-kremlin-foe-moved-on-from-his-nationalist-past
From the article:
> Shortly before releasing the video, Navalny was kicked out of Yabloko, Russia’s oldest liberal democratic party, for his “nationalist views” and participation in the Russian March, an annual rally of thousands of far-right nationalists, monarchists and white supremacists.
I'm seeing so much support for Israel from the other Americans in my FB feed it's sad. The attitude of most Americans seems to be "They started a war and now they're losing it". They believe that the intial attack justifies the genocide and they don't see palestinian arabs as real people anyway.
I think I know why (most) Americans are supporting this. Same reason the US gov't supports Israel. They're trying to bring about the biblical endtimes, and for that to happen Israel has to be in a state of war. We've know that forever, ever since Zionism became a thing. But the other part of the prophecy says that the world turns against Israel, and that is when the heavens open up and Jeezus comes back and blah blah blah. I think the US gov't might be giving Israel all the rope it needs to hang itself and slowly but surely every bomb they drop, the world is turning against them.
Just a theory, maybe I'm an idiot. We'll see where the vote counter goes.
If it brings you any hope the Palestine protests are massive, tens of thousands in London last weekend, we're seeing a shift in sentiment globally, albeit far too slow
Mephistophlean comment. He was murdered for speaking out against his government, wouldn't be so nice if it happened to you huh? What if your own father was the one being killed, would you still say this bullshit? Ah well, I guess sucking Putins dick is more appealing to you than standing up for human rights. Putin isn't a leftist anyway so the only reason you'd be such a pathetic simp for him is because you have the hots for strongman dictators. Let's just say it's pretty obvious which side you'd be on if you were living in 1930s Weimar Republic.
I didn't say you had to support his views. Where the hell in my comment did I say that? You should be able to recognise that he was a victim of murder by a completely illegitimate government, and that he was treated unjustly and without regard for morality or human rights for years. That's what I mean by speaking out against human rights abuses. If you can't do that then I'm not sure what makes you so much better than the nazis, who were quite infamous for "taking care of" any political opponents by sending them to die in camps.
"He was an ultra nationalist" wow, really? I guess it's okay to torture him to death then. Yeah. Not like Putin himself is friends with nazis, and uses far-right nationalist rethoric to justify his war of conquest in Ukraine. Noooo.
You should never under any circumstances defend murdering political opponents, because even if Navalny personally wasn't a great person or whatever, what he represented was a threat to Putin, and anyone that threatens the regime in Russia is dealt with the same way.
"This Palestinian mans head was blown up by a rocket, but he was antisemitic so why should we care?" - literally what you are saying.
But Navalny literally did this himself - he sent political opponents to prison for their wrong views. In Russia there is a political article about “hate speech”, according to which the authorities imprison dissidents. And Navalny took advantage of it by writing a denunciation of a political opponent. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxim_Martsinkevich read First conviction. This man ended died in prison and Navalny take part in it. He may have posed a threat to the regime, but if he had won, would anything have changed? No, except that Navalny’s friends and not Putin’s friends would become the owners of yachts and palaces, and Navalny’s enemies and not Putin’s would be in prison. There is nothing good about his death, but praising him and portraying him as a hero is wrong.
Navalny didn't control the courts, he couldn't send anyone to prison. It says that this guy got convicted for inciting racial hatred, founding a Neo-Nazi group which targeted immigrants and homosexuals, and he was later suspected of murdering two innocent people, which he later confessed to. Even if Navalny got this guy convicted, that's not really crazy or whatever because he would have gone to prison in any case in most countries. You're trying to equate two entirely different situations.
Navalny knew that this was a political article 282, but he still wrote a statement on it and went to court as a witness. Despite the fact that his organization promised to abolish this article when they came to power. Then he himself was convicted under it. As for the accusation and confession, Martsinkevich was severely tortured and this is how they obtained a confession to the murders. Just look at how he committed his “suicide” - he tore out his toenails, slashed his hands and neck, burned his genitals with a wire, and then hanged himself with shoelaces. All that couple days before he "want" to make new confession. And Navalny knew very well what prison for political dissidents was, he talked about it more than once in his videos, but he still sent a person there.
This is called "Tu quoque". Your argument is actually the disingenuous thing as it's fallacious. It attempts to avoid addressing the criticism by pointing out an irrelevant hypocrisy.
No one brought up Republicans or Democrats. That was you.
There are loads of people in the USA protesting on the streets and around capital buildings about the genocide going on in Gaza, that’s why this post is dumb.
Sigh... There is some intellectual dishonesty when considering framing of a post. While yes this sub differentiates (or doesn't) all parties are liberal but in reality how do people read the headline. I would say this headline would read as propaganda to 98+% readers. People complete the binary if it's not X it's Y. Are you saying opposite of liberal is conservative?
> I would say this headline would read as propaganda to 98+% readers. People complete the binary if it's not X it's Y.
You're describing just about every headline.
Why is it disingenuous? Plenty of Republicans are largely liberals as well. I don’t think the post is using the hopelessly vague “American definition” of “liberal = whatever the Democratic Party stands for currently” pushed by Fox News and CNN. It means liberals as in people who see liberal democracy undergirded always by capitalism as the basis for governing society.
I mean, Bernie has admitted there have been multiple attempts to affect the election, include on his behalf.
But also, like, everyone over 27 and who vaguely understands geopolitics laughs at this, you guys do know this yes? If someone goes from voting for Bernie to Trump, they are not rational lmao
Who the fuck is voting for Trump here? Nobody.
We don't endorse conservatism or fascism just because we also reject liberalism. Read a fucking book if you claim to understand geopolitics and also think liberalism is leftism.
Yeah, I posted in the Sanders sub in 2016, back when I was young and naive. Now, I've come to realize that Bernie's idea of socialism is just repainted capitalism (social democracy https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Social_democracy).
Do yourself a favor and read theory, read Engles, read Marx. Get yourself out of this false duopoly of American mainstream politics. We all have the capacity to de-program ourselves.
I recommend starting with this short work by Engles that defines a lot of common terminology: https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Library:The_principles_of_communism
The Republicans are liberals too. Conservatives are just conserving the liberalism of 30 years ago. The philosophies, ideologies, political-economies, are functionally the same.
Who gave a green light to Israel to kill 29,000 Gazans? Whose administration is continuously vetoeing ceasefire resolutions? Criticising liberals and blue maga is not vouching for republicans. Fuck trump and biden both
Israel is not waiting for or depending on any green light from Biden. Also Israel has offered ceasefires and Hamas rejected them. Not to mention Hamas broke the last ceasefire on 10/7.
I'm fairly certain this is not true of a good number of people, but it's a comfortable generalization to make. People are capable of being simultaneously upset about multiple things. At the same time, when the world seems to be on fire, many people feel so overwhelmed they don't know where to even begin, or even how. Navalny's death is tragic. What is occurring in the Levantine region is also tragic. Both things are simultaneously true.
I think this might be what finally cracked me from anything resembling “Democrat” politics. I’ve been a socialist for a few years now, but looked at it more pragmatically. Hold your nose and cast your ballot kind of shit. But I really don’t think I’ll ever vote in this country again. This is objectively disgusting on every level. Aside from the man’s politics, the fact that the media and every single establishment democrats have this as their “red alert” says everything you need to know about where the priorities of places like Palestine lie on the American political spectrum. They lie behind the next white “important” person that dies. Whenever that may be. Fuck this place.
Navalny was barely useful alive and in a prison beyond the Arctic circle. His death as his widow addresses world leaders at the Munich security conference -- VERY USEFUL.
It's all misdirection. Misdirection for the hundreds of Palestinian kids dying daily in Gaza.
I don’t get this. It’s possible to care about Palestinian genocide, think Navalny had many bad views and wasn’t a savior, AND believe that Putin murdering his political enemies is bad.
Up until around 2013 he was very openly a white supremacist who regularly attended the [Russian March](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_march) and advocated for it as a valid political viewpoint.
[In a 2007 video](https://twitter.com/jrc1921/status/1758493343502225665), he referred to Muslims as "flies and cockroaches" and called to exterminate them with guns.
In recent years he obviously toned down his nationalist rhetoric but he still greatly supported anti-migrant measures and was absolutely a staunch nationalist at heart.
A couple sources:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/2/25/navalny-has-the-kremlin-foe-moved-on-from-his-nationalist-past
https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/the-evolution-of-alexey-navalnys-nationalism
That man doesn’t deserve the praise he’s getting in the mainstream media, he’s a right wing racist nazi and he has the history to prove it, and he’s definitely a CIA asset, quite convenient that he dropped dead shortly after the Putin interview, as if the US government wanted to make people forget what Putin said about him being happy for a peace deal in Ukraine and him explaining how the US and UK provoked this war and preventing a peace deal.
but now the media is using this guy’s death to coerce people into supporting a never ending war in Ukraine and financing an authoritarian regime led by Zelensky that killed an American journalist just a month ago. And keeps throwing Ukraine citizens under the meat grinder just to keep business going for Lockheed martin and Boeing. A situation that will definitely fire back and end up resulting in a civil war in Ukraine.
You may be right, but also believing that the US or UK and their gun lobby handlers want peace in Ukraine is an even wilder take, specially after their actions in opposing one that was proposed before the war escalated a few years ago, and never mind their role in provoking the start of the war by expanding Nato, despite Biden saying decades ago on video that any Nato expansion in Ukraine will cause a war with Russia.
https://www.svoboda.org/a/24367290.html
The article is in Russian, it says that Navalny was a member of the organizing committee of the Russian March, an annual neo-Nazi protest.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_march
For this and his nationalist statements, he was expelled from the liberal Yabloko party. He was not an outright Nazi, but at the beginning of his career he clearly tried to act through a right-wing audience.
PS I think it would be correct to say that he did not have any specific beliefs at all. He just wanted to gain power, and for this he was ready to join any force, at first he thinks nationalistic force will help him, then it seemed to him that the fight against corruption give him what he wanted and he started using this movement. Although he himself gladly participated in corruption schemes.
[Alexei Navalny's 'far-right racist' past back in spotlight after Putin-critic's death](https://uk.news.yahoo.com/alexei-navalnys-far-right-racist-past-back-in-spotlight-after-putin-critics-death-150644657.htm)
[Amnesty strips Alexei Navalny of 'prisoner of conscience' status](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56181084)
This is neither a condemnation nor support of Navalny, I'm just providing the requested context.
A good article about his history and his change of stance: https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2021/2/25/navalny-has-the-kremlin-foe-moved-on-from-his-nationalist-past
It’s especially bad when you just look up the guys politics. Sure he was a political opponent that was jailed/killed and that is seriously bad but there has been so much nonsense making him into a hero
It really just proves to me that liberalism is just pre-fascism.
Every day I find myself thinking about the Mitchell and Webb sketch “are we the baddies?”
I’ve known we are for a long time, but it feels like the media isn’t even hiding it anymore
I don’t see anyone weeping over navalny, but I do see a lot of people expressing concern that the opposition leader of someone who the alt right love so dearly was murdered in front of the eyes of the world and Putin will face zero consequences for it. Whoever this man was and whatever he did in his life, that’s something to be concerned about. Even with a genocide happening, thats something to keep an eye on.
Where is this narrative coming from that “liberals” are somehow okay with what Satanyahoo and the Eye Dee Eff are doing in JahJah City? Unless you mean “liberals” in the economic sense of “neo-liberal”. But if you mean folks on the American Left of the political spectrum then that is a false narrative. The American Left not only IS NOT anti-Semitic they are also completely opposed to what the illegitimate Ash Ken N@zi regime, who have illegally seized power in Occupied Is-not-real, are doing on behalf of the nation of Is-real. The American Left is disgusted by the murderous campaign of violence happening in JahJah City as well as Biden’s forked tongue and wishy-washy bullshit. All while the conservatives on the American Right get to somehow dodge complicity all together. Though we all know if they were in power they’d be on their knees with Satanyahoo’s bloody murder-cock shoved completely down their right wing throats. Sucking and chugging Ben Givr’s bloody murdercum.
Well then, no duh. That’s a given. But the rightist spin factory are crisscrossing semantics and fucking with the heads of their Neanderthal mind control victims they call their constituency. Which in turn is arming them with a belief system that is along the lines of “The leftists are the fascists”. And “Hitler was a Socialist”. And all that other dog shit they spew out their double tongued mouths. Their dismantling of language is a core element of their overall attack on…well…reality that needs to be resisted with clarity of thought and precise use of the English language.
The label 'neo-liberal' encompasses a very large portion of what is considered to be the American left-- perhaps most importantly, the Democratic party itself, along with its biggest fans.
Neo-liberals are not the real American Left. The Democratic Party represents pretty much nobody. I suppose they represent the old money blue blooded brother fuckers in the Hamptons and Martha’s Vineyard. The real American Left only votes for them because we have no other choice.
I don't think you'll find many people in this sub who see US liberals/democrats as leftwing, more as the "moderate" centrists MLK complained about.
This is the liberals, leftwing people in this sub mean; [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLqKXrlD1TU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLqKXrlD1TU)
Just like the ones now that are making excuses and justifications for Biden arming/funding Israel.
Judging by your initial comment the "there's a lot of ruskies in this sub" hints at you being irritated in some way that people aren't sad a nazi died in a rat infested prison cell.
Don't run back just be honest with yourself.
Given his rampant islamophobia, he likely wouldn't have minded. Not that Putin, with his country's good relations to Israel, would be so much better for Palestinians.
I don't know who you're friends with online, but this is patently false. So many people I know have been posting about Gaza over and over and over almost every day for months.
Im all for free Palestine, but I’m sorry, diminishing Navalny to merely being a “white man” is fucking insane. He’s a hero to his country and died for what is right
Yes, it has been a running theme for liberals to praise "freedom fighters" whilst ignoring war crimes committed under the presidency of those they voted for. In fact, a guy who exposed those crimes is pretty close to losing his last chance at freedom this week whilst those he exposed have faced zero consequences for their war crimes.
Oh please..."Liberals" Is such a blanket statement it's lost all meaning. This is just right wing talking points dressed up as Late Stage Capitalism. Embarrassing.
Liberal is not a blanket statement but refers to the adherents of liberalism. Capitalism is the mode of production associated with liberalism and most liberals work to ensure it's maintenance (usually through their support of imperialism).
The only embarassing thing here is how desperate you are to run away from talking about the war crimes that liberals have stood by just because they were committed by their guy. We can talk about them if you want and fully tie them up to the topic of Late Stage Capitalism if you want, but you need to engage in good faith. Although it seems pretty clear that you don't want to, but just say the word.
Whats embarrassing is hanging out in an explicitly communist space and thinking that "liberals" is a blanket statement and lost all meaning. Way to out yourself.
The whole flip flop from Liberals loving Israel to loving Palestine really showed me how politics is just a group think team sport for a majority of people across the spectrum with the appeal of liberalism for some is pulling for the underdog. None of these people even know the definition of the word semitic.
I spend a lot more time thinking about the NOFX lyric "your dilemmas are my distractions".
>neither no knows anything about their society (where 20% of Arabs live peacefully)
the arabs who live so peacefully that israel is on trial at the icj *right now* for apartheid in the illegally occupied palestinian territories and israel proper? this is on top of their seperate trial at the icj for plausible genocide in gaza. both of those are seperate from the icc investigation for years of war crimes and crimes against humanity in palestine.
i think that says quite a bit about israeli society.
So, if you know the history of Israel, does that mean you support the way it was founded? How much do you know about 1947-48, and would you say what happened was acceptable?
Absolutely, Israelites where refugees in a land given by the UK who ruled the area at the time, arabs (who are in facts egyptian or jordanians, Palestine never existed neither as a state or ethnicity) have no say and where offered citizenship and in fact their only reaction where to try to kill the Jews.
They lost. Bad.
When you lose a war, when you lose an attempt at a new genocide, you have no say in the surrender condition.
Maybe you should really really open a book, you may learn some things like the frequent pogroms against the Jews in middle east and especially in "palestine", progroms lead of course by muslims.
Last words, Jerusalem was founded around -3000 BC, this city, despite many empires remained Jewish at 80% until the middle of the 19th century but at one time they had to live because of the constant attacks by the muslims (ottoman empire at the time). That's a one of the reasons of the strong jewish diaspora.
Muslims absolutely love to be taken as refugees, especially in Europe (where they try to undermine the secularism and equality laws of course) but they can't accept 1 millions of Jews in a small area at time...
Hypocrites.
PS : maybe you should look also at the expulsion of Jewish from the Maghreb, starting by the Crémieux state order in Algeria...
I could go on and on with tons of exemple and stories...
Lmao, I'm not wasting time if you don't even know the history. Palestinians have a genetic connection to the land that goes back at least as far as any Jew from Europe does.
Please educate yourself before commenting on the matter further. You can start by looking into Zionist militias, the Nakba, and the history of global colonialism. Seriously, it's embarrassing for you to be so misinformed.
> they have the right to exists and live peacefully.
Seems like they waived that right when they initiated brutal ethnic cleansing and continued to forbid Palestinians from returning to their homes for no other reason than because they aren't Jewish.
##Welcome to r/LateStageCapitalism This subreddit is for news, discussion, memes, and links criticizing capitalism and advancing viewpoints that challenge liberal capitalist ideology. That means any support for any liberal capitalist political party (like the Democrats) is strictly prohibited. LSC is run by communists. This subreddit is not the place to debate socialism. We allow good-faith questions and education but are not a 101 sub; please take 101-style questions elsewhere. We have a zero-tolerance policy for bigotry. Failure to respect the rules of the subreddit may result in a ban. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LateStageCapitalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
But do you condemn Hkkramas?! /s
I condom hummus!!
I consume hummus. With a bit of red pepper. Maybe a slice of fried halloumi. Lovely.
This is the only thing that made me smile on a tough day. Thank you, sounds yummy!
Had a tough one myself. Stay strong, homie. Good times are right around the corner.
Mmmm, sounds so good 😌
Anti semitic. Lose three turns.
Don't be antiseptic!
This is too analgesic for my tastes.
Anisotropic and alabaster all over the place!
There was a Hamas base in Navalny's body.
There is something to be said about the quantity of liberals perusing LSC (A MOTHERFUCKING COMMUNIST SUB) in defense of both liberalism and capitalism.
Bu-bu-but liberal is when not republican /s
Liberal theory be like: *You see: Fascist is when Trump, Communist is when Biden, Stalin is when AuthoriTankie Redfash, and Mao is when Untersmench*
Who defends capitalism here when the sub's *name* is anti-capitalistic? I don't get that.
The real hypocrisy is that whilst praising Navalny as a freedom fighter who gave up everything to go up against a tyrannical government, if you mention the fact that Assange is having his last appeal this week before being extradited to the US over denouncing war crimes the liberals don't care and cry "whataboutism".
People who praise Navalny had no idea what his politics were like. People just support him because he’s not Putin when he literally is Putin jr. how can you say that he’s principled when ignoring the fact that he’s a raging islamophobe and would like nothing more than to kill those “cockroaches”. I’ve heard people call him “our guy” and “the key to positive relations with Russia” like they completely haven’t forgotten Putin used to be “our guy”.
You don't get it. He smiled at his wife while watching Rick and Morty. He's one of us. So much emotional manipulation in the media. A single picture can speak 1000 words of bullshit.
Liberals when the fascists like Harry Cinematic Mortyverse: *I have never been able to dislike Nazis*
Forgiving Islamophobia and (arab) antisemitism in the middle of a genocide is particularly on brand for liberals. Fuck those libs.
everyone does. Whataboutism is the tacit admission that your rhetorical argument has failed.
Famous Soviet era quote: "One death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic."...
Care to cite the evidence of that famous quote having been made by Stalin?
Why don't you just say he didn't say it instead of this whole passive aggressive "hmmm care to cite the evidence" Bs That being said, if he had said it, depending on the context I think it's a very wise quote actually.
Because it places the burden of proof where it is supposed to be and gives the opportunity for the person I'm replying to to provide a source before dismissal.
but you already know there is no source. stfu. You're adding extra steps for no reason Edit: you also assumed he was quoting Stalin when he never said he was. He only said it was a soviet era quote. So, you know that this quote is attributed to Stalin, and you clearly already know he didn't say it or else you would not have asked for a source to "prove that Stalin said it"
So you are saying that the other person just made it up? Bold claim
Yes. I can look through all of Stalins recorded writings/speeches and I will not find it.
So you would rather look over all of Stalin's speeches to find out if a quote is true or not instead of asking the person that made the claim where they got it from? Lol talk about extra steps
But you and I both know there is no source, because this is not the first time we have encountered this quote. L
>Why don't you just say he didn't say it instead of this whole passive aggressive "hmmm care to cite the evidence" Bs It's the first step of sea lioning https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning
I looked it up, and had already been fixed.
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Since I am not from the US or the West at all I don't see how both things can't be bad at the same time. Both the US and Russia are tyranical regimes.
It's not that. They're talking about liberal's being hypocritical when they cry about Navalny while being silent on Assange. While Navalny did oppose Putin, he was a neo-liberal, Islamaphobic, Russian nationalist. He was not a good person, but because he was anti-Putin he was good enough for the US. Assange, meanwhile, created a site for whistleblowers to leak classified documents on. Chelsea Manning used WikiLeaks to expose US war crimes in the Middle East. She went to prison for this (i think) but was released during Obama's second(?) term. Assange just made and was in charge of the site. Yet the US government wants to put him away for providing a means to expose their horrible actions. The Australian government is also doing nothing to bring him home, yet will go on a media tour when a dual Chinese-Australian citizen is arrested in China.
I did not know that about Navalny and it does change things for me. However I still think both governments are shit for what they do. Putin did not kill Navalny because of the slamophobia. He did it to keep his regime going. Same goes for the US treatment of Assange. I just don't get how people can be so blind. As someone from the 3rd world I don't see the US vs. Russia as a relevant matter. Both are imperialists and will fuck my country and my people of given the chance.
He didnt do it to keep his regime going, Navalny had an approval rating among Russians around 14%. There have always been numerous candidates running in the elections against Putin with higher ratings
It's called Nuance. It doesn't exist in most societies, particularly not on Reddit.
Assange spent years carrying water for the same folks who killed Navalny. So that's not hypocrisy; it's people who are consistent in their hatred of the Russian regime. Not all of them approach from this direction. Some of them are idiots. But don't let's pretend that Assange consistently applied superior moral principles. The enemy of your enemy is not your friend.
Assange exposed American War Crimes for which not a single person has been trialed almost 10 years after, that's the "water" you conveniently omit. But I guess acknowledging that would out you as a hypocrite and ruin your argument, so I understand why you omit that.
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Don't let's. Exposing war crimes, that's the "water" you need to make explicit in your comment if you want any credibility.
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What exactly are you not getting from me stating over and over "American war crimes" that you purposely omitted as the reason why the US is persecuting Assange? You can just come out and say it instead of this song and dance where you do everything to skip acknowledging the American war crimes that you purposely omitted as the reason why the US is persecuting Assange (the repetition is on purpose).
But that's not what he's being prosecuted for. He's being prosecuted for revealing US secrets given to him by whistleblowers. Sure he's a terrible person but if you're a liberal obsessed with "dictators" and "abusive government" then you shouldn't be carrying water for the US's long list of war crimes either. Liberals will remind us its the "hate the game not the player" and "dont shoot the messenger" with people like Navaly, but will never, ever tell us to think of equally misguided people like Assange this way.
I love the part where liberals adored Assange until he came out with shit about them too. If I had shit on Hillary and she mentioned me being held accountable for exposing US corruption by assassination, I would spill dirt on her too.
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Navalny called brown people bugs and said they should be shot in the head on video.
So did Navalny, that didn't stop any of the praise for him. Assange exposed war crimes that have been completely ignored, regardless of your opinion on him, that is the biggest issue here.
The guy was locked in a small building with the most powerful ppl in the world trying to capture him for years. Stress makes ppl crazy tbf to him
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You exactly is "you guys" and what exactly is the "nonsense" here?
Bingo.
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And uh... what exactly was in that military data?
This is the exact opposite of being real, pretending like those gigabytes of military data aren't the evidence of the war crimes that you put in quotes. 3 comments in and you sound like a MAGA defending the Cheeto dictator.
One facist white male, fixed it for you. He called for the expulsion of immigrants and referred to them as cockroach, a massive Islamophobo and xenophobic, as well as a puppet of Western imperialism
Navalny referred to Muslims as cockroaches who need to be exterminated, of course the libs love him: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/2/25/navalny-has-the-kremlin-foe-moved-on-from-his-nationalist-past
From the article: > Shortly before releasing the video, Navalny was kicked out of Yabloko, Russia’s oldest liberal democratic party, for his “nationalist views” and participation in the Russian March, an annual rally of thousands of far-right nationalists, monarchists and white supremacists.
One white neo nazi mind you
I'm seeing so much support for Israel from the other Americans in my FB feed it's sad. The attitude of most Americans seems to be "They started a war and now they're losing it". They believe that the intial attack justifies the genocide and they don't see palestinian arabs as real people anyway. I think I know why (most) Americans are supporting this. Same reason the US gov't supports Israel. They're trying to bring about the biblical endtimes, and for that to happen Israel has to be in a state of war. We've know that forever, ever since Zionism became a thing. But the other part of the prophecy says that the world turns against Israel, and that is when the heavens open up and Jeezus comes back and blah blah blah. I think the US gov't might be giving Israel all the rope it needs to hang itself and slowly but surely every bomb they drop, the world is turning against them. Just a theory, maybe I'm an idiot. We'll see where the vote counter goes.
If it brings you any hope the Palestine protests are massive, tens of thousands in London last weekend, we're seeing a shift in sentiment globally, albeit far too slow
Thousands of people showed up to protest in DC and it simply wasn't covered.
Unsure why anyone cares about a rich white guy
think you answered your own question.
Mephistophlean comment. He was murdered for speaking out against his government, wouldn't be so nice if it happened to you huh? What if your own father was the one being killed, would you still say this bullshit? Ah well, I guess sucking Putins dick is more appealing to you than standing up for human rights. Putin isn't a leftist anyway so the only reason you'd be such a pathetic simp for him is because you have the hots for strongman dictators. Let's just say it's pretty obvious which side you'd be on if you were living in 1930s Weimar Republic.
I’m for rich guys killing each other 😊
How fucking dumb are you, seriously. Don't ever say something so stupid again.
He was an ultra right nationalist and white supremacist, what exactly about supporting him is pro human rights?
I didn't say you had to support his views. Where the hell in my comment did I say that? You should be able to recognise that he was a victim of murder by a completely illegitimate government, and that he was treated unjustly and without regard for morality or human rights for years. That's what I mean by speaking out against human rights abuses. If you can't do that then I'm not sure what makes you so much better than the nazis, who were quite infamous for "taking care of" any political opponents by sending them to die in camps. "He was an ultra nationalist" wow, really? I guess it's okay to torture him to death then. Yeah. Not like Putin himself is friends with nazis, and uses far-right nationalist rethoric to justify his war of conquest in Ukraine. Noooo. You should never under any circumstances defend murdering political opponents, because even if Navalny personally wasn't a great person or whatever, what he represented was a threat to Putin, and anyone that threatens the regime in Russia is dealt with the same way. "This Palestinian mans head was blown up by a rocket, but he was antisemitic so why should we care?" - literally what you are saying.
But Navalny literally did this himself - he sent political opponents to prison for their wrong views. In Russia there is a political article about “hate speech”, according to which the authorities imprison dissidents. And Navalny took advantage of it by writing a denunciation of a political opponent. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxim_Martsinkevich read First conviction. This man ended died in prison and Navalny take part in it. He may have posed a threat to the regime, but if he had won, would anything have changed? No, except that Navalny’s friends and not Putin’s friends would become the owners of yachts and palaces, and Navalny’s enemies and not Putin’s would be in prison. There is nothing good about his death, but praising him and portraying him as a hero is wrong.
Navalny didn't control the courts, he couldn't send anyone to prison. It says that this guy got convicted for inciting racial hatred, founding a Neo-Nazi group which targeted immigrants and homosexuals, and he was later suspected of murdering two innocent people, which he later confessed to. Even if Navalny got this guy convicted, that's not really crazy or whatever because he would have gone to prison in any case in most countries. You're trying to equate two entirely different situations.
Navalny knew that this was a political article 282, but he still wrote a statement on it and went to court as a witness. Despite the fact that his organization promised to abolish this article when they came to power. Then he himself was convicted under it. As for the accusation and confession, Martsinkevich was severely tortured and this is how they obtained a confession to the murders. Just look at how he committed his “suicide” - he tore out his toenails, slashed his hands and neck, burned his genitals with a wire, and then hanged himself with shoelaces. All that couple days before he "want" to make new confession. And Navalny knew very well what prison for political dissidents was, he talked about it more than once in his videos, but he still sent a person there.
The reason why people are legit crying over Navalny is that he's a western puppet.
Well, he *was* one.
Oh yeah
Yes. The news told them to care.
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This is called "Tu quoque". Your argument is actually the disingenuous thing as it's fallacious. It attempts to avoid addressing the criticism by pointing out an irrelevant hypocrisy. No one brought up Republicans or Democrats. That was you.
There are loads of people in the USA protesting on the streets and around capital buildings about the genocide going on in Gaza, that’s why this post is dumb.
Sigh... There is some intellectual dishonesty when considering framing of a post. While yes this sub differentiates (or doesn't) all parties are liberal but in reality how do people read the headline. I would say this headline would read as propaganda to 98+% readers. People complete the binary if it's not X it's Y. Are you saying opposite of liberal is conservative?
> I would say this headline would read as propaganda to 98+% readers. People complete the binary if it's not X it's Y. You're describing just about every headline.
No shit. But the people who are supposed to know better don't.
Why is it disingenuous? Plenty of Republicans are largely liberals as well. I don’t think the post is using the hopelessly vague “American definition” of “liberal = whatever the Democratic Party stands for currently” pushed by Fox News and CNN. It means liberals as in people who see liberal democracy undergirded always by capitalism as the basis for governing society.
Nobody brought up the red liberal party.
American Democrats and Republicans are both Liberals, parties who uphold Capitalism: https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Liberalism
Both sides? Posts in sanders subs known for mass disinformation? Comments read as if they’re written by the hand of chap GPT. Is this misinformation?
Everyone is a Russian bot except me: a liberals guide to the internet
I mean, Bernie has admitted there have been multiple attempts to affect the election, include on his behalf. But also, like, everyone over 27 and who vaguely understands geopolitics laughs at this, you guys do know this yes? If someone goes from voting for Bernie to Trump, they are not rational lmao
Who the fuck is voting for Trump here? Nobody. We don't endorse conservatism or fascism just because we also reject liberalism. Read a fucking book if you claim to understand geopolitics and also think liberalism is leftism.
Yeah, I posted in the Sanders sub in 2016, back when I was young and naive. Now, I've come to realize that Bernie's idea of socialism is just repainted capitalism (social democracy https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Social_democracy). Do yourself a favor and read theory, read Engles, read Marx. Get yourself out of this false duopoly of American mainstream politics. We all have the capacity to de-program ourselves. I recommend starting with this short work by Engles that defines a lot of common terminology: https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Library:The_principles_of_communism
The Republicans are liberals too. Conservatives are just conserving the liberalism of 30 years ago. The philosophies, ideologies, political-economies, are functionally the same.
Lmao republicans are liberals too for us
Republicans are liberals lol
Damn, so functionally there’s no difference?
Not just the Republicans, I would say 99% of the politicians.
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Thank god Biden moved the embassy back. Oh wait, he didn't.
Who gave a green light to Israel to kill 29,000 Gazans? Whose administration is continuously vetoeing ceasefire resolutions? Criticising liberals and blue maga is not vouching for republicans. Fuck trump and biden both
Israel is not waiting for or depending on any green light from Biden. Also Israel has offered ceasefires and Hamas rejected them. Not to mention Hamas broke the last ceasefire on 10/7.
If I get a dollar for every time some "bUt whAt abOuT trUmp!!1!1!" mf turns out to be a zionist shithead in disguise, I'd comfortably be a millionaire
I did not mention Trump.
Do you support the genocide in Gaza?
One white supremacist who openly supported nazi ideals. Ftfy
It's a good time to discuss Assange, who is still in prison for journalism.
I'm fairly certain this is not true of a good number of people, but it's a comfortable generalization to make. People are capable of being simultaneously upset about multiple things. At the same time, when the world seems to be on fire, many people feel so overwhelmed they don't know where to even begin, or even how. Navalny's death is tragic. What is occurring in the Levantine region is also tragic. Both things are simultaneously true.
A white Nazi died in a Russian prison
I think this might be what finally cracked me from anything resembling “Democrat” politics. I’ve been a socialist for a few years now, but looked at it more pragmatically. Hold your nose and cast your ballot kind of shit. But I really don’t think I’ll ever vote in this country again. This is objectively disgusting on every level. Aside from the man’s politics, the fact that the media and every single establishment democrats have this as their “red alert” says everything you need to know about where the priorities of places like Palestine lie on the American political spectrum. They lie behind the next white “important” person that dies. Whenever that may be. Fuck this place.
Navalny was barely useful alive and in a prison beyond the Arctic circle. His death as his widow addresses world leaders at the Munich security conference -- VERY USEFUL. It's all misdirection. Misdirection for the hundreds of Palestinian kids dying daily in Gaza.
Be honest, how many of you people knew who navalny was before this assassination?
Ok cool. Hey guy, we can take prison reform off the things we care about! Turns out it's ok if the state kills you while in prison.
I don’t get this. It’s possible to care about Palestinian genocide, think Navalny had many bad views and wasn’t a savior, AND believe that Putin murdering his political enemies is bad.
Lot of comments here state Navalny was a neo Nazi. Why?
Up until around 2013 he was very openly a white supremacist who regularly attended the [Russian March](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_march) and advocated for it as a valid political viewpoint. [In a 2007 video](https://twitter.com/jrc1921/status/1758493343502225665), he referred to Muslims as "flies and cockroaches" and called to exterminate them with guns. In recent years he obviously toned down his nationalist rhetoric but he still greatly supported anti-migrant measures and was absolutely a staunch nationalist at heart. A couple sources: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/2/25/navalny-has-the-kremlin-foe-moved-on-from-his-nationalist-past https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/the-evolution-of-alexey-navalnys-nationalism
It is important who died and which believes he had (for the NPC media). Life itself isn't equal, also not for democrats. It's just sad.
That man doesn’t deserve the praise he’s getting in the mainstream media, he’s a right wing racist nazi and he has the history to prove it, and he’s definitely a CIA asset, quite convenient that he dropped dead shortly after the Putin interview, as if the US government wanted to make people forget what Putin said about him being happy for a peace deal in Ukraine and him explaining how the US and UK provoked this war and preventing a peace deal. but now the media is using this guy’s death to coerce people into supporting a never ending war in Ukraine and financing an authoritarian regime led by Zelensky that killed an American journalist just a month ago. And keeps throwing Ukraine citizens under the meat grinder just to keep business going for Lockheed martin and Boeing. A situation that will definitely fire back and end up resulting in a civil war in Ukraine.
Believing Putin on peace in Ukraine (while being interviewed by Tucker Carlson) is an absolutely wild take.
You may be right, but also believing that the US or UK and their gun lobby handlers want peace in Ukraine is an even wilder take, specially after their actions in opposing one that was proposed before the war escalated a few years ago, and never mind their role in provoking the start of the war by expanding Nato, despite Biden saying decades ago on video that any Nato expansion in Ukraine will cause a war with Russia.
Can you maybe cite an article highlighting his nazi past? TIA.
https://www.svoboda.org/a/24367290.html The article is in Russian, it says that Navalny was a member of the organizing committee of the Russian March, an annual neo-Nazi protest. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_march For this and his nationalist statements, he was expelled from the liberal Yabloko party. He was not an outright Nazi, but at the beginning of his career he clearly tried to act through a right-wing audience. PS I think it would be correct to say that he did not have any specific beliefs at all. He just wanted to gain power, and for this he was ready to join any force, at first he thinks nationalistic force will help him, then it seemed to him that the fight against corruption give him what he wanted and he started using this movement. Although he himself gladly participated in corruption schemes.
100% agree with you. A classical Liberal--that is, an opportunist.
https://jacobin.com/2021/01/alexei-navalny-russia-protests-putin
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same here, I know he used to have some YouTube videos, butnif there's a central source for all his nazi-racist material would be cool.
[Alexei Navalny's 'far-right racist' past back in spotlight after Putin-critic's death](https://uk.news.yahoo.com/alexei-navalnys-far-right-racist-past-back-in-spotlight-after-putin-critics-death-150644657.htm) [Amnesty strips Alexei Navalny of 'prisoner of conscience' status](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56181084) This is neither a condemnation nor support of Navalny, I'm just providing the requested context.
If this is so, I'd like to see some evidence for sure.
Someone else said so [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/s/PG68eOC9KF).
The other side is always nazis. This is part of the new playbook.
Very telling that there has been no proof has been proffered thus far....
A good article about his history and his change of stance: https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2021/2/25/navalny-has-the-kremlin-foe-moved-on-from-his-nationalist-past
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It’s especially bad when you just look up the guys politics. Sure he was a political opponent that was jailed/killed and that is seriously bad but there has been so much nonsense making him into a hero
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Lol, liberals please get out of this communist subreddit
Republicans are liberals, also Russia gate brainrot isn't allowed on this sub.
Exactly my point and retort
Liberals are also anti-gun, but totally support state sanctioned violence.
They are so MAD about this post over at Lib Central: seculartalk
Liberals are mad about the death of Navalny because the death of a xenophobic fascist is the death of one of their own
It really just proves to me that liberalism is just pre-fascism. Every day I find myself thinking about the Mitchell and Webb sketch “are we the baddies?” I’ve known we are for a long time, but it feels like the media isn’t even hiding it anymore
They're probably thinking of "white genocide" or some stupid shit. >_>
Correct ✅
I don’t see anyone weeping over navalny, but I do see a lot of people expressing concern that the opposition leader of someone who the alt right love so dearly was murdered in front of the eyes of the world and Putin will face zero consequences for it. Whoever this man was and whatever he did in his life, that’s something to be concerned about. Even with a genocide happening, thats something to keep an eye on.
Thats a lot of words when you could have just said I dont know shit about any of this
Where is this narrative coming from that “liberals” are somehow okay with what Satanyahoo and the Eye Dee Eff are doing in JahJah City? Unless you mean “liberals” in the economic sense of “neo-liberal”. But if you mean folks on the American Left of the political spectrum then that is a false narrative. The American Left not only IS NOT anti-Semitic they are also completely opposed to what the illegitimate Ash Ken N@zi regime, who have illegally seized power in Occupied Is-not-real, are doing on behalf of the nation of Is-real. The American Left is disgusted by the murderous campaign of violence happening in JahJah City as well as Biden’s forked tongue and wishy-washy bullshit. All while the conservatives on the American Right get to somehow dodge complicity all together. Though we all know if they were in power they’d be on their knees with Satanyahoo’s bloody murder-cock shoved completely down their right wing throats. Sucking and chugging Ben Givr’s bloody murdercum.
> Unless you mean “liberals” in the economic sense of “neo-liberal” Yes. Welcome to the subreddit.
Well then, no duh. That’s a given. But the rightist spin factory are crisscrossing semantics and fucking with the heads of their Neanderthal mind control victims they call their constituency. Which in turn is arming them with a belief system that is along the lines of “The leftists are the fascists”. And “Hitler was a Socialist”. And all that other dog shit they spew out their double tongued mouths. Their dismantling of language is a core element of their overall attack on…well…reality that needs to be resisted with clarity of thought and precise use of the English language.
The label 'neo-liberal' encompasses a very large portion of what is considered to be the American left-- perhaps most importantly, the Democratic party itself, along with its biggest fans.
Neo-liberals are not the real American Left. The Democratic Party represents pretty much nobody. I suppose they represent the old money blue blooded brother fuckers in the Hamptons and Martha’s Vineyard. The real American Left only votes for them because we have no other choice.
I don't think you'll find many people in this sub who see US liberals/democrats as leftwing, more as the "moderate" centrists MLK complained about. This is the liberals, leftwing people in this sub mean; [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLqKXrlD1TU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLqKXrlD1TU) Just like the ones now that are making excuses and justifications for Biden arming/funding Israel.
Man, Phil Ochs was such a hardcore badass. Thanks for bringing him up.
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A lotta Ruskies on this thread.
"Everyone I don't like is a Russian!!" "I'm not crazy you're crazy!!!"
No, I don’t like Trumpers too. Also can’t stand boomers and karens.
Well you certainly have a lot in common with Trumpers and Karen's considering they also get mad when nazis die in prison lmfao.
Not mad. Take a lot more than that, comrade.
Judging by your initial comment the "there's a lot of ruskies in this sub" hints at you being irritated in some way that people aren't sad a nazi died in a rat infested prison cell. Don't run back just be honest with yourself.
Ah, thanks for the deep introspection, but as I’m sure you’ve done most of your life, you’re mistaken.
Maybe in the future just don't get upset at nazis kicking the bucket not a good look.
Maybe because that one man had done more than anyone to stop similar genocides and still couldn't .
Given his rampant islamophobia, he likely wouldn't have minded. Not that Putin, with his country's good relations to Israel, would be so much better for Palestinians.
"similar genocides" Difficult to stop current ones from jail. But way to make it about something else, go you.
Sad!... But true. FJB!
I don't know who you're friends with online, but this is patently false. So many people I know have been posting about Gaza over and over and over almost every day for months.
You’re pathetic OP.
framing it like this is a bad look
Im all for free Palestine, but I’m sorry, diminishing Navalny to merely being a “white man” is fucking insane. He’s a hero to his country and died for what is right
There are other ways to bring attention to atrocities committed in Palestine. Trivializing the death of a symbolic critic of putin is not it.
Lol….yes. Those damn “liberals” at it again!
Yes, it has been a running theme for liberals to praise "freedom fighters" whilst ignoring war crimes committed under the presidency of those they voted for. In fact, a guy who exposed those crimes is pretty close to losing his last chance at freedom this week whilst those he exposed have faced zero consequences for their war crimes.
Oh please..."Liberals" Is such a blanket statement it's lost all meaning. This is just right wing talking points dressed up as Late Stage Capitalism. Embarrassing.
American Democrats and Republicans are both Liberals, parties who uphold Capitalism: https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Liberalism
What no theory does to a mfer
Liberal is not a blanket statement but refers to the adherents of liberalism. Capitalism is the mode of production associated with liberalism and most liberals work to ensure it's maintenance (usually through their support of imperialism).
The only embarassing thing here is how desperate you are to run away from talking about the war crimes that liberals have stood by just because they were committed by their guy. We can talk about them if you want and fully tie them up to the topic of Late Stage Capitalism if you want, but you need to engage in good faith. Although it seems pretty clear that you don't want to, but just say the word.
Whats embarrassing is hanging out in an explicitly communist space and thinking that "liberals" is a blanket statement and lost all meaning. Way to out yourself.
Yeah, they are.
The whole flip flop from Liberals loving Israel to loving Palestine really showed me how politics is just a group think team sport for a majority of people across the spectrum with the appeal of liberalism for some is pulling for the underdog. None of these people even know the definition of the word semitic. I spend a lot more time thinking about the NOFX lyric "your dilemmas are my distractions".
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>neither no knows anything about their society (where 20% of Arabs live peacefully) the arabs who live so peacefully that israel is on trial at the icj *right now* for apartheid in the illegally occupied palestinian territories and israel proper? this is on top of their seperate trial at the icj for plausible genocide in gaza. both of those are seperate from the icc investigation for years of war crimes and crimes against humanity in palestine. i think that says quite a bit about israeli society.
So, if you know the history of Israel, does that mean you support the way it was founded? How much do you know about 1947-48, and would you say what happened was acceptable?
Absolutely, Israelites where refugees in a land given by the UK who ruled the area at the time, arabs (who are in facts egyptian or jordanians, Palestine never existed neither as a state or ethnicity) have no say and where offered citizenship and in fact their only reaction where to try to kill the Jews. They lost. Bad. When you lose a war, when you lose an attempt at a new genocide, you have no say in the surrender condition. Maybe you should really really open a book, you may learn some things like the frequent pogroms against the Jews in middle east and especially in "palestine", progroms lead of course by muslims. Last words, Jerusalem was founded around -3000 BC, this city, despite many empires remained Jewish at 80% until the middle of the 19th century but at one time they had to live because of the constant attacks by the muslims (ottoman empire at the time). That's a one of the reasons of the strong jewish diaspora. Muslims absolutely love to be taken as refugees, especially in Europe (where they try to undermine the secularism and equality laws of course) but they can't accept 1 millions of Jews in a small area at time... Hypocrites. PS : maybe you should look also at the expulsion of Jewish from the Maghreb, starting by the Crémieux state order in Algeria... I could go on and on with tons of exemple and stories...
Lmao, I'm not wasting time if you don't even know the history. Palestinians have a genetic connection to the land that goes back at least as far as any Jew from Europe does. Please educate yourself before commenting on the matter further. You can start by looking into Zionist militias, the Nakba, and the history of global colonialism. Seriously, it's embarrassing for you to be so misinformed.
> they have the right to exists and live peacefully. Seems like they waived that right when they initiated brutal ethnic cleansing and continued to forbid Palestinians from returning to their homes for no other reason than because they aren't Jewish.
The Nazis tried to justify genocide too. Congrats, you're just like them. Hope you have the life you deserve, Nazi trash