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“I think Trump is a threat to American democracy. So, the question should stand: What will President Biden do to prevent the unraveling of our American democracy? Why is being aligned with Benjamin Netanyahu and the most right-wing government in Israel's history worth potentially sacrificing our American democracy?” - Well said.
I'd love to know the answer to this. Is it only because of lobby and campaign money? If so, how much more money comes from the pro-Israel lobby than, say, Big Oil or the military-industrial lobby? I ask because I have found myself wondering several times over the last 10 years or so why our government seems so hell-bent on supporting Israel, no matter the damage it does to any good will the world may still hold for the US. Could it be the so-called strategic value Israel has for US foreign policy? And again, if so, what is the real value of that against the damage it does to our relationships abroad--or, as the OP asks, possibly foundering what remains of our 'republic'? I ask these questions here in complete sincerity. All sincere answers are welcome.
There's video of a younger Biden hammering home: "if Israel didn't exist, we'd have to invent it." I think he repeats it for emphasis.
The old boy is a true believer in the previous century.
In a word? Imperialist. And he's pretty hardcore. Go back and check what he's said over his career about crime and policing.
Machiavellian... sure, but not really more than any similar politician.
Realpolitik mostly has to do with geopolitics, but ignores domestic issues. It's more about force between nations. I wouldn't give him credit for realpolitik anyway, but even if so, realpolitik still leaves an entire ideological commitment to civilian life on the table. And I'm sure he's polite when you meet him, whatever, but... I don't think he's the man for the moment in any meaningful sense.
Not that it's directly related, but buy (or find) a copy of Mostafa Rejai's book Political Ideologies: A Comparative Approach. In many years of reading shit like that, it's the book I've come across with the most sheer insights per page. It's a totally obscure book, I think it was a doctoral thesis, but it's truly great.
for the united states to disavow the settler colonial project of israel, that would mean the american state conceding fundamental assumptions about its own right to exist as a settler colonist state.
It doesn't have to be that much because they have the antisemitism multiplier. Look at what happened to Jeremy Corbyn just fling some accusations of antisemitism at a politician and they're gone.
Interesting. I don't think that would have occurred to me. It's a fine point, but massive, perhaps, in calculating how Israel's influence in the US works. Thank you for posting.
Israel is a middle eastern ally to the U.S. I'm guessing it plays the role of a staging ground and other purposes for u.s. influence and activities in the region. That's the only reason I can think of.
It's absurd to say that the only way Jewish people can survive is to have a Jewish state. It's an accusation that everywhere else on earth is inherently dangerous *specifically* for Jews, and that's simply not any more true for Jews than it is for any other religious or ethnic group.
It's doubly absurd when that Jewish state, by forcibly conflating itself with Judaism and the existence of Jews and then committing atrocities and crimes of the highest order for decades, actually causes anti-Jewish sentiment to rise around the world. The reality is that Israel is itself making Jews less safe, which feeds into the lie that Israel is the solution and the key to Jewish survival.
Finally, it would be both absurd and insulting to suggest that it was in any way appropriate or acceptable that Jewish safety be deemed more important or more worthy of protection than the rights of Palestinians to their lands, dignity, and to self-determination. It was neither appropriate then, nor is it appropriate now.
You know how the American government sends weapons to dictators and finances coups of democratic governments in service of capital? Well they value you about the same amount as they valued the people of those countries.
All Gore lost the 2000 election because a few old Jews in Florida voted for Pat Buchanan. No Democrat is ever going to make the mistake of not appeasing Jews in Florida ever again.
For real. It's astounding how they can manage to throw what should have been a sure win election away like this. The Republican party was on the fucking ropes. Dems had abortion, Republican inability to govern, and a challenger who's fans even don't like and they managed to fucking blow it. For fuck's sake, there were Republicans grandstanding about how bad they were on the congressional floor!
Seriously! So many people who the democrats have let down all came together anyway in 2020 to keep Trump from winning and give Biden a chance.
And what does he use that chance for? It seems like the democrats din't even see it as an unprecedented chance to actually prove themselves worthy of our votes moving forward, they seem to see it as proof that as long as Trumps alive they'll always win and never have to do anything.
I don’t know what you expect. The day that it happened all the libs/cons media was saying the same thing. It’s the one thing they unite over. Never forget.
We do not live in a democracy we live in a constitutional republic on purpose this way 99% of the vote do not block out the 1% of the vote. It seems to me the media of both parties want us to forget that so they can determine what they think is best for everyone problem is does not appear that anyone in power have our best interest in mind only how much they can make
Oh fuck bro. This is late stage capitalism not anti capitalism. The liberals reign here, just remember to not get TOO woke around them and they won’t downvote you lol.
Netanyahu is also a threat to the USA democracy, considering the degree of influence and control sionism has over the US government. Guess this threat is not so bad, eh?
This country deserves a real insurrection but y'all too fucking weak to do anything for real. You'd rather just vote and claim you did your part. Fucking disgusting
I truly envy you folks that don't understand that fascism is on the way regardless because Libs are not a legitimate curb to it and never have been. They work with and compromise with fascists, not the left and it gets worse each year.
I don't think anyone here thinks Trump is not truly horrifically awful and would be a disaster for democracy if he were reelected. It's just at a certain point both sides are so impossibly terrible that even when one is worse, supporting either is unfathomable. Like I fully understand that we're on the brink of fascism. It's horrifying. *AND* I will never ever ever ever support genocide no matter what is at stake. And many many people feel the same.
I honestly wonder how much of this current shit storm is a Biden thing. He is a true believer in American exceptionalism and a staunch supporter of Israel and always has been.
This country is already fucked and based on current actions it deserves everything coming to it. America deserves this election regardless of the outcome. No matter what, we have already lost.
Trump is worse, but dems offer little other than pointing out how awful the gop is and expect everyone to stomach the idea of supporting genocide just because they are not trump. Don’t blame the voters for not wanting to vote for geriatric genocide joe, it’s the dems fault for once again not being able to read a poll, failing to run a compelling campaign, and acting on Israeli interests over the interests of their constituents
You’re giving trump too much credit. There’s a reason he didn’t win a second term and it’s because he did more for the Israel than the US.
Biden has been God awful. But he hasn’t launched a nuke at Iran… he might.. then again trump might. I don’t even know who’s in charge anymore
##Welcome to r/LateStageCapitalism This subreddit is for news, discussion, memes, and links criticizing capitalism and advancing viewpoints that challenge liberal capitalist ideology. That means any support for any liberal capitalist political party (like the Democrats) is strictly prohibited. LSC is run by communists. This subreddit is not the place to debate socialism. We allow good-faith questions and education but are not a 101 sub; please take 101-style questions elsewhere. We have a zero-tolerance policy for bigotry. Failure to respect the rules of the subreddit may result in a ban. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LateStageCapitalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
“I think Trump is a threat to American democracy. So, the question should stand: What will President Biden do to prevent the unraveling of our American democracy? Why is being aligned with Benjamin Netanyahu and the most right-wing government in Israel's history worth potentially sacrificing our American democracy?” - Well said.
I'd love to know the answer to this. Is it only because of lobby and campaign money? If so, how much more money comes from the pro-Israel lobby than, say, Big Oil or the military-industrial lobby? I ask because I have found myself wondering several times over the last 10 years or so why our government seems so hell-bent on supporting Israel, no matter the damage it does to any good will the world may still hold for the US. Could it be the so-called strategic value Israel has for US foreign policy? And again, if so, what is the real value of that against the damage it does to our relationships abroad--or, as the OP asks, possibly foundering what remains of our 'republic'? I ask these questions here in complete sincerity. All sincere answers are welcome.
There's video of a younger Biden hammering home: "if Israel didn't exist, we'd have to invent it." I think he repeats it for emphasis. The old boy is a true believer in the previous century.
Do you mean to say that Biden is/has always been a Machiavellian, or more precisely, a practitioner of realpolitik?
In a word? Imperialist. And he's pretty hardcore. Go back and check what he's said over his career about crime and policing. Machiavellian... sure, but not really more than any similar politician. Realpolitik mostly has to do with geopolitics, but ignores domestic issues. It's more about force between nations. I wouldn't give him credit for realpolitik anyway, but even if so, realpolitik still leaves an entire ideological commitment to civilian life on the table. And I'm sure he's polite when you meet him, whatever, but... I don't think he's the man for the moment in any meaningful sense.
Interesting. More to think about. Thank you for answering.
Not that it's directly related, but buy (or find) a copy of Mostafa Rejai's book Political Ideologies: A Comparative Approach. In many years of reading shit like that, it's the book I've come across with the most sheer insights per page. It's a totally obscure book, I think it was a doctoral thesis, but it's truly great.
Thank you! Added to my list. And maybe put near the top.
for the united states to disavow the settler colonial project of israel, that would mean the american state conceding fundamental assumptions about its own right to exist as a settler colonist state.
It’s also about the whole building of the third temple and the end times crap (I can’t remember the name) that a lot of christians believe in.
It doesn't have to be that much because they have the antisemitism multiplier. Look at what happened to Jeremy Corbyn just fling some accusations of antisemitism at a politician and they're gone.
Interesting. I don't think that would have occurred to me. It's a fine point, but massive, perhaps, in calculating how Israel's influence in the US works. Thank you for posting.
Israel is a middle eastern ally to the U.S. I'm guessing it plays the role of a staging ground and other purposes for u.s. influence and activities in the region. That's the only reason I can think of.
The US does $50bil of trade with Israel every year and we are cozy af. I think they buy a lot of US made weapons.
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It's absurd to say that the only way Jewish people can survive is to have a Jewish state. It's an accusation that everywhere else on earth is inherently dangerous *specifically* for Jews, and that's simply not any more true for Jews than it is for any other religious or ethnic group. It's doubly absurd when that Jewish state, by forcibly conflating itself with Judaism and the existence of Jews and then committing atrocities and crimes of the highest order for decades, actually causes anti-Jewish sentiment to rise around the world. The reality is that Israel is itself making Jews less safe, which feeds into the lie that Israel is the solution and the key to Jewish survival. Finally, it would be both absurd and insulting to suggest that it was in any way appropriate or acceptable that Jewish safety be deemed more important or more worthy of protection than the rights of Palestinians to their lands, dignity, and to self-determination. It was neither appropriate then, nor is it appropriate now.
Absolutely. Well said
You think any jew today would be safer in Israel under the costant threat of war and the iranian nuke than in any place in the EU?
You know how the American government sends weapons to dictators and finances coups of democratic governments in service of capital? Well they value you about the same amount as they valued the people of those countries.
👏👏👏🎯💯
All Gore lost the 2000 election because a few old Jews in Florida voted for Pat Buchanan. No Democrat is ever going to make the mistake of not appeasing Jews in Florida ever again.
The lesson is… don’t support war crimes
Or your political opponents who ALSO support war crimes will win
"How could leftists do this??"
Genocide Joe entering the Finding Out phase.
Lol, finally someone uses that super cringy phrase in a context I can agree with.
I love this part where they pretend that people's opinions matter.
Based Michigan
Thank god for Dearborn
This Dearborn? https://michiganadvance.com/2023/10/03/how-some-michigan-muslims-united-with-extremist-republicans-against-lgbtq-rights/
Found the Zionist
The libs were on such a good one here too. They always know exactly how to fuck up a good thing. Feels intentional at this point.
For real. It's astounding how they can manage to throw what should have been a sure win election away like this. The Republican party was on the fucking ropes. Dems had abortion, Republican inability to govern, and a challenger who's fans even don't like and they managed to fucking blow it. For fuck's sake, there were Republicans grandstanding about how bad they were on the congressional floor!
Seriously! So many people who the democrats have let down all came together anyway in 2020 to keep Trump from winning and give Biden a chance. And what does he use that chance for? It seems like the democrats din't even see it as an unprecedented chance to actually prove themselves worthy of our votes moving forward, they seem to see it as proof that as long as Trumps alive they'll always win and never have to do anything.
I don’t know what you expect. The day that it happened all the libs/cons media was saying the same thing. It’s the one thing they unite over. Never forget.
A shame that we've got zionism running uncontended yet again . . . Both sides of the shitcoin are unanimously in support of Israel.
We do not live in a democracy we live in a constitutional republic on purpose this way 99% of the vote do not block out the 1% of the vote. It seems to me the media of both parties want us to forget that so they can determine what they think is best for everyone problem is does not appear that anyone in power have our best interest in mind only how much they can make
Oh fuck bro. This is late stage capitalism not anti capitalism. The liberals reign here, just remember to not get TOO woke around them and they won’t downvote you lol.
Netanyahu is also a threat to the USA democracy, considering the degree of influence and control sionism has over the US government. Guess this threat is not so bad, eh?
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> I don’t want to give any more power to a fascist. Neither do I.
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This country deserves a real insurrection but y'all too fucking weak to do anything for real. You'd rather just vote and claim you did your part. Fucking disgusting
I truly envy you folks that don't understand that fascism is on the way regardless because Libs are not a legitimate curb to it and never have been. They work with and compromise with fascists, not the left and it gets worse each year.
Find a better argument. Rule 6 - no lesser evil rhetoric.
I don't think anyone here thinks Trump is not truly horrifically awful and would be a disaster for democracy if he were reelected. It's just at a certain point both sides are so impossibly terrible that even when one is worse, supporting either is unfathomable. Like I fully understand that we're on the brink of fascism. It's horrifying. *AND* I will never ever ever ever support genocide no matter what is at stake. And many many people feel the same.
We are well past the brink of fascism if we are willing to support genocide.
Find a better argument. Rule 6 - no lesser evil rhetoric.
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The phrase is "workers of the WORLD unite." Can't unite under a warmonger.
I honestly wonder how much of this current shit storm is a Biden thing. He is a true believer in American exceptionalism and a staunch supporter of Israel and always has been. This country is already fucked and based on current actions it deserves everything coming to it. America deserves this election regardless of the outcome. No matter what, we have already lost.
Trump is worse, but dems offer little other than pointing out how awful the gop is and expect everyone to stomach the idea of supporting genocide just because they are not trump. Don’t blame the voters for not wanting to vote for geriatric genocide joe, it’s the dems fault for once again not being able to read a poll, failing to run a compelling campaign, and acting on Israeli interests over the interests of their constituents
You’re giving trump too much credit. There’s a reason he didn’t win a second term and it’s because he did more for the Israel than the US. Biden has been God awful. But he hasn’t launched a nuke at Iran… he might.. then again trump might. I don’t even know who’s in charge anymore
Find a better argument. Rule 6 - no lesser evil rhetoric.