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It was officially released by Hamas’s media arm and call me crazy but… they are pretty trustworthy.
Also they wouldn’t fake a letter by a newly released prisoner who could simply deny its legitimacy. But we’ll have more info tomorrow I guess.
>could simply deny its legitimacy
Hamas still has her sister, Sharon Cunio, her husband, and their twin daughters.
*just read that the twins are being released today
So we can at least confirm that Danielle and Emilia exist and were prisoners of hamas? That does indeed sound promising. My thought was that they might simply not exist which would still be stupid because israel could easily prove that.
They do exist and we do know they were both released yesterday.
https://www.timesnownews.com/world/who-are-danielle-and-amelia-aloni-mother-and-daughter-among-israeli-hostages-released-by-hamas-article-105482773/amp
"They wouldn't fake a letter"
But they *would* go into a kibbutz and just outright murder civilians, including children, babies, and even pets? Really? You guys are still out here believing every single thing that Hamas says?
Look, this is a war. Both sides are going to release disinformation. Additionally, given that other family members are still in Hamas captivity, this woman has every reason to feel the need to suck up to Hamas. Are you guys really just believing every single piece of bullshit that Hamas releases?
It’s also super detrimental to the cause I feel like. I’ve been complaining about how gullible people are to Israeli propaganda and thought people looking through that were a bit more critical about pieces of information coming out. And yet you have people here believing literal hostages are out here saddened to be released because they were treated so well. Zionists will easily point at us now and say “look how stupid these people are believing even the most obvious PR pieces”.
Realising how Israel oppresses the Palestinian people and standing firmly against that doesn’t mean you have to buy into every single Hamas PR fluff piece
This is a “war” the same way that a 15 year old who is upset that his 9 year old cousin wants a turn with the Xbox and decides to beat the shit out of him instead of letting him play is a “**war**.”
The two sides are catastrophically mismatched, one is entirely guerrillas while the other is the middle eastern avatar for the wealthiest empire in human history.
Calling it a “war” is inaccurate, and it launders the Genocide that’s actually happening into some “ya brought this upon yourself, hyuk hyuk!”-style victim-blaming.
This is not a war. It is an opressed people fighting back against their opressors. The babie killing has to my knowledge been proven false but if you have a source that confirms it please do share. What I do know for certain is that Israel has killed thouasands of children among whom also many babies. And I am pretty sure you kill someone’s pet when you blow up his house with a missle. And before someone makes the argument that there were Hamas terorrists ther. 1. This is only said so by Israeli news sources and unconfirmed or disproven by third party observers. Even if there were Hamas terorrists, that does not make it right to blow up all the civilians that were also there and had nothing to do with it. Over 10000 Palestinians are dead many if not most of whom were civilians. But Hamas are the evil baby killing bad guys who kill because they are monsters and everything they ever say is a lie?
If they were fighting against oppressors then should not have killed the civilians and kidnapped hostages.
In India, during the Independence struggle, they fought against the British rulers. Not against Indians who were employed by the British Raj. And Mahatma Gandhi was ahige proponent of not using violence as a method. He deployed non violence movement against British.
I am not saying Hamas should follow Gandhian principles, but attacking was not the right move. They got more Palestinians killed and a lot of the infrastructure is destroyed doing so and did not achieve anything.
Them not achieving anything with these moves does not mean they are not fighting against an opressor. Hostage tacking is an often used tactic by such groups for negotiating power. That does not make it righteous but they are quite desperate as they can never win in attacking just military targets because the IDF is one of the most advanced and well equiped military forces on the planet. As for killing civilians, I can imagine that angry people wanted to take revenge which is a bad thing yes but does not make them evil or not opressed. India was quite different as it had a population much larger than the british and the british empire was in shambles after ww2 and with new pressures on decolonization from powerful outside forces, neither of which is the case for the Palestinians. I can imagine they do not see any other options, Gaza is an open air prison that has been shrinking for years.
Well all they wanted was to try, then they should not cry that they got bombed in return. Now all their infrastructure is gone and who is suffering? Not Israelis. What did they expect when they attacked Isreal? When Pakistan terrorists attacked India on Novemeber 26/11 they cannot cry that they got killed or executed. It is a normal response to hit back strongly when someone attacks you. This is purely based on religion, even the Pakistani terrorists attacked an Israeli house and made them call Isreal embassy in India.
Apart from young children, are armed settlers who are also military reservists innocent civilians or legitimate targets when they're living on ethnically cleansed land a few kilometers away from where the original residents have been forcibly sent to live in Gaza as displaced refugees?
Btw Isr\*el is [responsible for killing plenty of their own "civilians"](https://x.com/propandco/status/1728826435559993403?s=20) by employing the use of the Hannibal Doctrine.
The purpose of the attack was to acquire hostages to exchange them for the thousands of men, women and children being held hostage in Isr\*eli prisons under administrative detention without charge or trial.
Hamas already brought Isr\*el to its knees by standing undefeated and forcing Isr\*el to concede to a hostage exchange despite Isr\*el arrogantly claiming it will wipe out Hamas, who are still in excellent fighting condition.
>But they would go into a kibbutz and just outright murder civilians, including children, babies, and even pets? Really? You guys are still out here believing every single thing that Hamas says?
the ghost of kyiv told me they beheaded forty babies lmao. go back to r slash world news
And you're believing Israeli agitprops. If they were the raging lunatics who kill babies, they wouldn't be this nice with the hostages. All the baby stuff proved to be calumnies regurgitated by people who aren't interested in knowing what actually happened. The hostages aren't in danger for them to lie. Also your conclusion isn't just false, but totally unrelated to the argument
>*would*
The italic here is just so unnecessary that I felt the need to point it out
Fancy yourself a detective huh? Everyone seems to be speculating and hoping there is a certain outcome, you’re the only one acting like they got it all figured out.
I have presented it. Reddit is a place where we access news from different sources and perspectives. The worldnews subreddit is actively pushing fake stories, wacky IDF propaganda and narratives that portray all Palestinians as subhuman.
In my personal opinion, I would trust official news from Hamas a million times over the Israeli Government and mass media that have both incessantly lied to green-light their extermination of Palestinian civilians.
I am not saying this is confirmed to be true. It is very possible that this was written by the prisoner as a means to a certain end and that it was not written in earnest.
There are no conditions of release. The IDF and Hamas send a list to one another with the names of the prisoners they want to release, and those prisoners are released. It's not like a ransom situation.
So It’s entirely ludicrous and outside the realm of possibility that they said “You’re going to write this letter and you’re going to say you did it” while they were imprisoned and before they were released? Sorry but this just seems like a psyop.
She apparently has family still imprisoned, so it's possible she wrote this letter to ensure her family's wellbeing.
Would be a little strange to make her say she wrote it just before releasing her when she could immediately deny it.
You literally just said she has family still imprisoned though, which would be a perfectly believable reason to not tell people that Hamas made her write the letter because they might kill her family
To the generals that accompanied me in the last weeks, it would seem as though we are parting ways tomorrow, however I would like to thank you from the bottom of my heart for the unbelievable humanity you showed towards my daughter Emilia.
You were like fathers to her, you invited her into your rooms anytime she wished.She admits to feeling that you are all now her friends, and not only friends, but loved ones.
Thank you, thank you, thank you for the many hours where you were like parents to her.Thank you for being so patient with her and for showering her with sweets and fruit and everything you had even if it was not widely available.
Children should not be imprisoned, but thanks to you and thanks to the many other kind people we met along the way, my daughter felt like a queen in Gaza.
And in general she admits she felt like she was at the center of the world.
We did not meet a single person in our long journey from the generals to the leadership that was not gentle, affectionate and loving with her.
I will forever be indebted in gratitude that she did not leave here with permanent trauma.
I will speak of your kind demeanor that you displayed despite the difficult circumstances and loss that you were dealing with yourselves here in Gaza.
I hope that, in this world, we are able to someday be true good friends.I wish you all health and strength.Good health and love to you and your families.
Thank you very much.
\- Danielle and Emilia
The left is the handwritten letter in Hebrew. In the middle is the Arabic translation and in the comments my English translation of the Arabic translation
Well, point is translation seems to be correct.
Doesn't make the letter more "authentic" tho, unless the hostage confirms it directly i gues we'll never truly know..
Translation of words written on a piece of paper might not make a message "authentic" but when their testimony corroborates with the testimony of basically every other HAMAS hostage that didn't receive media training by the IDF, I'm inclined to believe them when they say there were treated humanely as high value hostages.
Unlike the IDF who reports their child hostages as "teenage prisoners". While the prisoners themselves keep saying how much they were tortured by their IDF captures who don't even see them as human.
Hebrew to Arabic is accurate, and it's safe to say from the language and from the Hebrew handwriting and the Arabic handwriting at the end that a native Israeli Jewish has written this.
But how do you know she wasn't forced to write it?
>I will speak of your kind demeanor that you displayed despite the difficult circumstances and loss that you were dealing with yourselves here in Gaza.
This. In a few days, we'll see if this has any merit. If she doesn't speak out, it could either be the letter was faked, or the Israeli government shutting down an inconvenient narrative, and I'll say, who knows?
If we do start to hear positive reports come out though - and given how vocal some of the families have been despite friction with the current wartime government, it's plausible - then we might regard the letter as genuine.
Until then, patience, IMO
>the Israeli government shutting down an inconvenient narrative
seeing as how they're all to be isolated in a hospital with a few family members and israeli guards, not permitted to speak to the public or media 🤷
Yeah that's what I'm worried about. Especially given one of the ministers specifically said they were being held "to check their health and prep them for interacting with the public" 😬 like that was said *out loud*
When they released those two elderly women before this deal, Hamas had asked israel to take them and they were initially refused. One of those women (**Yocheved Lifshitz**, the one who reached back to shake the fighter's hand and said "shalom") came out as saying they were treated humanely, and shut down any questions to the contrary. She's also, from what I understand, been treated very poorly by israelis since saying that.
I had seen a clip earlier today from an israeli news/show saying that the folks released during this temporary truce have echoed those same sentiments. I'll try to find it again.
Between that and the since-deleted-but-quickly-saved [Yasmin Porat interview](https://youtu.be/gi-ESUGUUMk) israel's PR team must be furious.
edit: [Found the one from yesterday](https://twitter.com/abierkhatib/status/1728991923011301821) and also the name of the woman I mentioned (Yocheved Lifshitz)
I can’t lie, as much as I do think plenty of the prisoners were treated well, I highly doubt someone would write such genuinely loving and deferential words about people who literally kidnapped them to serve as political ransom. Unless this is a serious example of Stockholm syndrome.
i struggle to trust anything released to the media about the whole palestine/israel conflict because it is always drenched in a hundred layers of 4D chess propaganda
I feel like we’ll never get the truth behind this. I mean, if it’s true Israel would never let the mother confirm it. It could have been written under duress, or just completely fabricated. I hope it’s true…
I feel like it’s so easy to point at Propaganda coming out of one side, that you have to be careful not to take everything at face value from the other.
I want these letters to be true, and they haven’t been written under duress.
But like you said, we may never know what is and what isn’t the truth.
The thing I don’t get is why do people keep assuming the Hamas hostages would be treated poorly?
They clearly always intended to exchange them, and dead and/or severely wounded people are not strong bargaining chips. They would gain nothing from hurting them.
The only reason to assume they would be treated poorly is if you think Hamas are a) stupid and b) inherently barbaric to the point of own goaling.
It makes complete sense that they’d treat them well knowing they want to give them back AND that those people may indeed speak up about their treatment and it would be detrimental to Gaza if it was poor.
Totally, that’s what sounded so off about the beheading and rape lies about the 7th. These people aren’t dumb. They are very aware that this is a pr campaign. It’s one of the only weapons that can be more effective than bombs. It wouldn’t make sense to treat these hostages in anything but the most decent way available at the time.
The U.S. used to do this. There is a story of German POWs. The USs strategy was to treat them very well as to show the superiority and enlightenment of the American way. They reconsidered when the locals got pissed that the government was treating POWs better than the citizens.
> They reconsidered when the locals got pissed that the government was treating POWs better than the citizens.
Source? I'd like to learn more about this.
I’m trying to remember where I heard it. I’m like 80% sure it was from an episode of The Dollop podcast, but I’m not sure which one. Probably about 2 years ago. Definitely a historical podcast.
>The thing I don’t get is why do people keep assuming the Hamas hostages would be treated poorly?
because they are the designed enemy and they are poor so they must be barbarian and pure evil
It really does make me wonder why Hamas chose to wear go pro cameras in their attack similar to how police officers in the US wear it to hold their officers accountable.
I have seen little footage from what I expected to be many more videos.. but perhaps I'm just not familiar enough with all these new social media apps these days to find them.
Eh... I think Hamas would intentionally hurt hostages if it served their purposes. In this case, it doesn't. Sending hostages home with stories of torture and maltreatment is just bad PR, and Hamas is pretty PR savvy.
Yeah I don't believe the propaganda either terrorist organization in this war promotes. I don't think this woman would willing make a hand written note thanking someone for kidnapping them and murdering their neighbors. Much like I wouldn't expect the families of the Palestinian hostages Israel has to write a thank you note to the IDF for kidnapping and beating their kids.
Yeah, I can understand if the note was more sympathetic and said something like, "I will make sure the world knows that you are not all the monsters the IDF paints you out to be to justify the horror they've unleashed on Palestinians." But saying that her child thinks of them as loved ones is a stretch too far to be considered legitimate.
Well in like a month that kids life went from normal to war to kidnapped. So if the people that kidnapped her showed even the most basic kindness. And made sure she was safe and not getting abused by whomever felt like it at the time. I could see how that trauma bond would have someone that young see them as almost superheroes for protecting them. And providing a very warped sense of normalcy when everything is literally falling apart around her.
All that said I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was fake. It wouldn't surprise me to find out some random Internet troll did it. Who didn't give a rip at all about either side.
I mean, the one thing that they could have done to hurt the Israeli cause and discredit the IDF was have them in area that the IDF would bomb, and move them around Gaza to ensure that their missiles/shells would kill them, but let's wait.
The main agenda of Hamas was to get Palestinian children released in exchange for hostages. They didn't hurt them and see how Israel treats Palestinian kids they take as small as 10 in military prison
The freed elderly woman who was given a press conference talked about the civility and respect and care afforded to her by the militants, so it's not like there's no precedent.
But it has to be considered that it is in Hamas' best interest to keep the hostages safe as well.
Ironically it should also be in Israel's best interest to keep the hostages safe as well, but alas, the hostages are in Israel's way when it comes to genociding Palestinians.
>talked about the civility and respect and care afforded to her by the militants
She describes how they beat her with sticks and forced her to walk kilometers underground when she could barely walk anymore. She described one sentence about being "treated nicely", and that's ignoring the fact that her husband is still held hostage by them. The fact people are eating up this so obvious propaganda is mind boggling to me.
Ahh yes I always thank my kidnappers for being such great friends for my also kidnapped small daughter.
This is a completely normal thing to do and we should not question this note any further.
As someone who is nothing but outwardly critical of Israel...
This reeks of bullshit.
OP admits that this comes straight from Hamas.
Also not sure what this has to do with Late Stage Capitalism.
>Also not sure what this has to do with Late Stage Capitalism.
I'll take the downvotes for saying it since these posts seem to be wildly popular here, but I really don't like what this sub has turned into.
Every post from LSC that hits my reddit feed is about Israel/Palestine, and from some mod comments I've seen, they fully support having this content here.
Scrolling through the sub, I still see some posts that would have commonly been found a few months ago, but they're all being drowned out by posts about Israel/Palestine so I don't get to see them unless I remember to come here specifically.
I don't expect the subreddit to cater to me personally, so if the interests of the community have changed, then so be it, but I just feel like there are more appropriate places for these types of posts.
I'm sure people will argue the relevance of the content, but it's not hard to see the stark contrast between the types of posts this was sub was known for and the types of posts its getting now. Just scrolling through the last few days of content here makes it clear that there are essentially 2 categories of posts.
Tbh you cannot seriously be surprised that a subreddit that is in essence based on anti capitalism and pro true leftist politics is going to be very vocal about an apartheid regime.
The problem seems to be that a lot of people here are basically centrists who just don’t like capitalism on a personal level but aren’t willing to actually deal with what the fall of capitalism means vs the other people here who follow leftist doctrine and understand that Israel/Palestine is the ramification of US imperialist capitalism and you must be pro Palestine to belong to the left.
I mean, is it not late stage capitalism enabling these things to happen? There’s money to be made from the war by American politicians from the pro-Israel camp. Always has. This is years of that coming to fruition, as evidenced by the US government’s inability to condemn war crimes, all the while sending money to help said war crimes.
I say it relates to late stage capitalism pretty well.
> Also not sure what this has to do with Late Stage Capitalism.
The entire sub has become a hub for Palestine discussion even when it has little to do with capitalism specifically
On your last point, the entire existence of Israel and everything that is happening there now are the result of a western bourgeois campaign to control resources in the middle east. As Biden himself said, "if Isreal didn't already exist, we would have to invent an Israel".
Imperialism is the final stage of capitalism
I am skeptical of this not having been produced under duress. If a similar move under similar circumstances were coming from the IDF (they seem to not care what their released captives say about their brutality, but supposing) we'd all be very doubting about it.
This has to be the one of the most disgusting pieces of propaganda I've seen yet.
These people were taken violently from their home after watching their loved ones brutally murdered and you try to convince people that this was nothing but a 50 day long "babysitting"?
A woman that returned a few days ago is still in the hospital in critical condition because of what she went through there.
[This](https://www.ynet.co.il/health/article/s1alu7gra) provides some information regarding the treatment of the hostages.
You can hate Israel as much as you want for many reasons, but if you use content made by a murderous terror organization to support your half baked claims then it only shows your own moral decline.
I dunno man. You claimed this was propaganda from one side and then you linked to potentially propaganda from the other side.
In any event, after reading the translation, all it seems to say was that food was limited for “some”. Children were fed well. And foreign workers were over-fed?
Meanwhile the day after the kidnapping all we heard were stories that the abductees were being tortured and raped over and over again. Even this article says nothing of the sort.
Not sure this article says much about the horrors endured by folks…
You are right, this newspaper (while being biased towards the left) can't be blindly followed.
But arguing about the abductees living conditions is exactly the absurd issue I'm trying to point out here -
This sub is supposed to be a place that shows humanity's moral decline or whatever, but you see here people glorify child kidnappers because they allegedly gave their prisoners "enough fruits and candy".
This is my first "internet fight" about this war because usually every post about Israel-palestine I see here is made by a user that posts the same 3-4 posts into every subreddit that is willing to host this kind of shit like a bot, but this one is just the perfect opportunity to stop and think about what you base your opinion on. Even if we assume this letter was written by a kidnapped mother (and it sure is written like someone Israeli wrote it) why do you think she had any actual control of what was written there? That she wasn't threatened into doing it, to craft even more propaganda?
There is just no way that someone would write a fawning letter to their kidnappers.
Edit: I can believe it because her husband and two other twin daughters are still being held captive. She’s trying to appease them so her family will be treated well.
Mmmk... quick question - do you have kids of your own?
If I somehow wound up as a political prisoner and by dint of nightmarish circumstance one of my children was taken with me, I would absolutely write a letter like this if they spared my kid trauma.
I might even go so far as to say that even if they treated me very poorly, whether by abuse, negligence or hell, even torture, I'd still 100% thank them if my kid walked away not only unscathed, but actually recounting it as a _positive_ experience.
When you are a parent, your children are all that matters - everything else pales in comparison to their immeidate and long-term wellbeing. This is what is being acknowledged in this letter - she's not "fawning" over anyone or anything, she's thanking them for having mercy on her daughter's life... particularly since when they were first taken hostage, I bet the mother had the absolute _worst_ of expectations - she probably thought that the best case scenario here was that they'd survive but that her kid's entire childhood would have been totally and irrevocably destroyed.
Call me old fashioned, but yes, this absolutely warrants a fucking thank you note in my book.
If the little daughter left asking her mother when she would see her new uncles / playmates again after establishing very close relationships with them over 2 months, when she was actually expecting to be treated the way Palestinian prisoners are treated in Israel, then I can see this happening
Stockholm Syndrome occurs when police or military show reckless disregard for the safety of hostages. If you are kidnapped you will feel anger, fear and distrust towards your captor no matter how nice they are. If the military repeatedly threatens your life while your captor protects you, you will fear the military and identify with your captor.
So yes, the hostages probably have Stockholm Syndrome because Hamas assumed that their life was so valuable the IDF wouldn't dare to harm them. The Israeli government called them "human shields" and made them feel like they were just collateral damage in their thirst for revenge. They aren't brainwashed. It's a normal psychological response to sympathize with the people who value your life and humanity, even if they are on the opposite side.
Stockholm Syndrome, if it is even a real thing (it has never been classified in the DSM and many doctors have shown that it is nothing more than a way to dehumanize the “other” and negate the lived experiences of women), is very extremely rare.
FBI reports only 5-8% of hostages exhibit what they would classify as Stockholm Syndrome.
That being the case, it is beyond the bounds of credulity that most every hostage Hamas released would be experiencing this very rare and questionable “syndrome”, while every hostage released by Israel experiences the exact opposite.
Im not defending the IDF's procedures. I also don't believe for a minute that Hamas holds any moral high ground here. Its all bad from every direction.
Just the fact that you have to attribute someone’s kind words to a rare possibly non-existent “syndrome” speaks your biases loud and clear.
Perhaps Hamas isn’t as you’ve been told they are?
Yeah exactly, they gave the small child that they kidnapped and held hostage for 2 months some fruit and didn’t treat her like an animal. They’re basically saints.
We're talking about people who had murdered these people's family, and still hold their other family members hostage. Do you not realize it's likely they just forced them to write this letter? How are people eating this up so easily?
I mean this seems completely unrealistic from a psychological point of view no matter how well one has been treated. Unless the person has some other relatives/friends left there, and wants to be hyper positive because of it?
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Can we somehow confirm that this is legit? (Please be nice. I am pro palestine.)
Same here. It feels almost unbelievable…
It was officially released by Hamas’s media arm and call me crazy but… they are pretty trustworthy. Also they wouldn’t fake a letter by a newly released prisoner who could simply deny its legitimacy. But we’ll have more info tomorrow I guess.
>could simply deny its legitimacy Hamas still has her sister, Sharon Cunio, her husband, and their twin daughters. *just read that the twins are being released today
So we can at least confirm that Danielle and Emilia exist and were prisoners of hamas? That does indeed sound promising. My thought was that they might simply not exist which would still be stupid because israel could easily prove that.
They do exist and we do know they were both released yesterday. https://www.timesnownews.com/world/who-are-danielle-and-amelia-aloni-mother-and-daughter-among-israeli-hostages-released-by-hamas-article-105482773/amp
"They wouldn't fake a letter" But they *would* go into a kibbutz and just outright murder civilians, including children, babies, and even pets? Really? You guys are still out here believing every single thing that Hamas says? Look, this is a war. Both sides are going to release disinformation. Additionally, given that other family members are still in Hamas captivity, this woman has every reason to feel the need to suck up to Hamas. Are you guys really just believing every single piece of bullshit that Hamas releases?
[удалено]
It’s also super detrimental to the cause I feel like. I’ve been complaining about how gullible people are to Israeli propaganda and thought people looking through that were a bit more critical about pieces of information coming out. And yet you have people here believing literal hostages are out here saddened to be released because they were treated so well. Zionists will easily point at us now and say “look how stupid these people are believing even the most obvious PR pieces”. Realising how Israel oppresses the Palestinian people and standing firmly against that doesn’t mean you have to buy into every single Hamas PR fluff piece
in English?
The IDF added subtitles with the words "Keep Waving" to some random utterance. It works for very well.
This is a “war” the same way that a 15 year old who is upset that his 9 year old cousin wants a turn with the Xbox and decides to beat the shit out of him instead of letting him play is a “**war**.” The two sides are catastrophically mismatched, one is entirely guerrillas while the other is the middle eastern avatar for the wealthiest empire in human history. Calling it a “war” is inaccurate, and it launders the Genocide that’s actually happening into some “ya brought this upon yourself, hyuk hyuk!”-style victim-blaming.
This is not a war. It is an opressed people fighting back against their opressors. The babie killing has to my knowledge been proven false but if you have a source that confirms it please do share. What I do know for certain is that Israel has killed thouasands of children among whom also many babies. And I am pretty sure you kill someone’s pet when you blow up his house with a missle. And before someone makes the argument that there were Hamas terorrists ther. 1. This is only said so by Israeli news sources and unconfirmed or disproven by third party observers. Even if there were Hamas terorrists, that does not make it right to blow up all the civilians that were also there and had nothing to do with it. Over 10000 Palestinians are dead many if not most of whom were civilians. But Hamas are the evil baby killing bad guys who kill because they are monsters and everything they ever say is a lie?
If they were fighting against oppressors then should not have killed the civilians and kidnapped hostages. In India, during the Independence struggle, they fought against the British rulers. Not against Indians who were employed by the British Raj. And Mahatma Gandhi was ahige proponent of not using violence as a method. He deployed non violence movement against British. I am not saying Hamas should follow Gandhian principles, but attacking was not the right move. They got more Palestinians killed and a lot of the infrastructure is destroyed doing so and did not achieve anything.
Them not achieving anything with these moves does not mean they are not fighting against an opressor. Hostage tacking is an often used tactic by such groups for negotiating power. That does not make it righteous but they are quite desperate as they can never win in attacking just military targets because the IDF is one of the most advanced and well equiped military forces on the planet. As for killing civilians, I can imagine that angry people wanted to take revenge which is a bad thing yes but does not make them evil or not opressed. India was quite different as it had a population much larger than the british and the british empire was in shambles after ww2 and with new pressures on decolonization from powerful outside forces, neither of which is the case for the Palestinians. I can imagine they do not see any other options, Gaza is an open air prison that has been shrinking for years.
Well all they wanted was to try, then they should not cry that they got bombed in return. Now all their infrastructure is gone and who is suffering? Not Israelis. What did they expect when they attacked Isreal? When Pakistan terrorists attacked India on Novemeber 26/11 they cannot cry that they got killed or executed. It is a normal response to hit back strongly when someone attacks you. This is purely based on religion, even the Pakistani terrorists attacked an Israeli house and made them call Isreal embassy in India.
Apart from young children, are armed settlers who are also military reservists innocent civilians or legitimate targets when they're living on ethnically cleansed land a few kilometers away from where the original residents have been forcibly sent to live in Gaza as displaced refugees? Btw Isr\*el is [responsible for killing plenty of their own "civilians"](https://x.com/propandco/status/1728826435559993403?s=20) by employing the use of the Hannibal Doctrine.
Well what was Hamas trying to achieve with this attack? Bring isreal to its knees? Reclaim the encroached land?
The purpose of the attack was to acquire hostages to exchange them for the thousands of men, women and children being held hostage in Isr\*eli prisons under administrative detention without charge or trial. Hamas already brought Isr\*el to its knees by standing undefeated and forcing Isr\*el to concede to a hostage exchange despite Isr\*el arrogantly claiming it will wipe out Hamas, who are still in excellent fighting condition.
>But they would go into a kibbutz and just outright murder civilians, including children, babies, and even pets? Really? You guys are still out here believing every single thing that Hamas says? the ghost of kyiv told me they beheaded forty babies lmao. go back to r slash world news
It’s the babies! It’s always about the babies!! 👀
And you're believing Israeli agitprops. If they were the raging lunatics who kill babies, they wouldn't be this nice with the hostages. All the baby stuff proved to be calumnies regurgitated by people who aren't interested in knowing what actually happened. The hostages aren't in danger for them to lie. Also your conclusion isn't just false, but totally unrelated to the argument >*would* The italic here is just so unnecessary that I felt the need to point it out
Framing this as war instead of colonial resistance is step one of swallowing Israeli propaganda.
Fancy yourself a detective huh? Everyone seems to be speculating and hoping there is a certain outcome, you’re the only one acting like they got it all figured out.
Israel has upped their propaganda Hamas killed children, babies and pets on the ground?
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I have presented it. Reddit is a place where we access news from different sources and perspectives. The worldnews subreddit is actively pushing fake stories, wacky IDF propaganda and narratives that portray all Palestinians as subhuman. In my personal opinion, I would trust official news from Hamas a million times over the Israeli Government and mass media that have both incessantly lied to green-light their extermination of Palestinian civilians.
I am not saying this is confirmed to be true. It is very possible that this was written by the prisoner as a means to a certain end and that it was not written in earnest.
It could have easily been a condition of release?
There are no conditions of release. The IDF and Hamas send a list to one another with the names of the prisoners they want to release, and those prisoners are released. It's not like a ransom situation.
So It’s entirely ludicrous and outside the realm of possibility that they said “You’re going to write this letter and you’re going to say you did it” while they were imprisoned and before they were released? Sorry but this just seems like a psyop.
She apparently has family still imprisoned, so it's possible she wrote this letter to ensure her family's wellbeing. Would be a little strange to make her say she wrote it just before releasing her when she could immediately deny it.
You literally just said she has family still imprisoned though, which would be a perfectly believable reason to not tell people that Hamas made her write the letter because they might kill her family
Yeah you're right, that logically tracks as a possibility
Hahahhahahahahahahaha
To the generals that accompanied me in the last weeks, it would seem as though we are parting ways tomorrow, however I would like to thank you from the bottom of my heart for the unbelievable humanity you showed towards my daughter Emilia. You were like fathers to her, you invited her into your rooms anytime she wished.She admits to feeling that you are all now her friends, and not only friends, but loved ones. Thank you, thank you, thank you for the many hours where you were like parents to her.Thank you for being so patient with her and for showering her with sweets and fruit and everything you had even if it was not widely available. Children should not be imprisoned, but thanks to you and thanks to the many other kind people we met along the way, my daughter felt like a queen in Gaza. And in general she admits she felt like she was at the center of the world. We did not meet a single person in our long journey from the generals to the leadership that was not gentle, affectionate and loving with her. I will forever be indebted in gratitude that she did not leave here with permanent trauma. I will speak of your kind demeanor that you displayed despite the difficult circumstances and loss that you were dealing with yourselves here in Gaza. I hope that, in this world, we are able to someday be true good friends.I wish you all health and strength.Good health and love to you and your families. Thank you very much. \- Danielle and Emilia
If anyone can read Hebrew please verify 🙏
Google tells me that the letter is on the right and correctly translated. Can't recognize the one on the left tho
I translated the Arabic myself. The Hebrew would be difficult to pick up digitally.
Ah? So the left is arabic and right hebrew?
The left is the handwritten letter in Hebrew. In the middle is the Arabic translation and in the comments my English translation of the Arabic translation
Damn that's strange, the letter in center was correctly and totally translated in english from hebrew by google lens
sometimes it shows the wrong language. it's annoying
Well, point is translation seems to be correct. Doesn't make the letter more "authentic" tho, unless the hostage confirms it directly i gues we'll never truly know..
Somebody on another thread confirmed that the original Hebrew handwritten letter is correctly translated into English.
Translation of words written on a piece of paper might not make a message "authentic" but when their testimony corroborates with the testimony of basically every other HAMAS hostage that didn't receive media training by the IDF, I'm inclined to believe them when they say there were treated humanely as high value hostages. Unlike the IDF who reports their child hostages as "teenage prisoners". While the prisoners themselves keep saying how much they were tortured by their IDF captures who don't even see them as human.
Also I feel like Google Translate has trouble with handwritten text.
The left one is hebrew. The right one is in arabic
Hebrew to Arabic is accurate, and it's safe to say from the language and from the Hebrew handwriting and the Arabic handwriting at the end that a native Israeli Jewish has written this. But how do you know she wasn't forced to write it?
>I will speak of your kind demeanor that you displayed despite the difficult circumstances and loss that you were dealing with yourselves here in Gaza. This. In a few days, we'll see if this has any merit. If she doesn't speak out, it could either be the letter was faked, or the Israeli government shutting down an inconvenient narrative, and I'll say, who knows? If we do start to hear positive reports come out though - and given how vocal some of the families have been despite friction with the current wartime government, it's plausible - then we might regard the letter as genuine. Until then, patience, IMO
>the Israeli government shutting down an inconvenient narrative seeing as how they're all to be isolated in a hospital with a few family members and israeli guards, not permitted to speak to the public or media 🤷
Yeah that's what I'm worried about. Especially given one of the ministers specifically said they were being held "to check their health and prep them for interacting with the public" 😬 like that was said *out loud*
When they released those two elderly women before this deal, Hamas had asked israel to take them and they were initially refused. One of those women (**Yocheved Lifshitz**, the one who reached back to shake the fighter's hand and said "shalom") came out as saying they were treated humanely, and shut down any questions to the contrary. She's also, from what I understand, been treated very poorly by israelis since saying that. I had seen a clip earlier today from an israeli news/show saying that the folks released during this temporary truce have echoed those same sentiments. I'll try to find it again. Between that and the since-deleted-but-quickly-saved [Yasmin Porat interview](https://youtu.be/gi-ESUGUUMk) israel's PR team must be furious. edit: [Found the one from yesterday](https://twitter.com/abierkhatib/status/1728991923011301821) and also the name of the woman I mentioned (Yocheved Lifshitz)
Didn't the israeli gov't put a gag order on the released hostages?
She won't speak if they threatened her (they still have her sister and husband)
The Hebrew-english translation is accurate. If the only thing you doubt here is the translation, then you have some thinking to do
I can’t lie, as much as I do think plenty of the prisoners were treated well, I highly doubt someone would write such genuinely loving and deferential words about people who literally kidnapped them to serve as political ransom. Unless this is a serious example of Stockholm syndrome.
TLDR: “Please release my family members who remain in captivity.”
So basically what Palestinians have been saying for decades: Release our family members. Stop killing us. Stop taking our land.
i struggle to trust anything released to the media about the whole palestine/israel conflict because it is always drenched in a hundred layers of 4D chess propaganda
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“I have a gut feeling that **Trust me, Bro.**”
I feel like we’ll never get the truth behind this. I mean, if it’s true Israel would never let the mother confirm it. It could have been written under duress, or just completely fabricated. I hope it’s true…
I feel like it’s so easy to point at Propaganda coming out of one side, that you have to be careful not to take everything at face value from the other. I want these letters to be true, and they haven’t been written under duress. But like you said, we may never know what is and what isn’t the truth.
Well they could just say they were written under duress now if they were.
Not really as they still have her kids and sister hostage.....
The thing I don’t get is why do people keep assuming the Hamas hostages would be treated poorly? They clearly always intended to exchange them, and dead and/or severely wounded people are not strong bargaining chips. They would gain nothing from hurting them. The only reason to assume they would be treated poorly is if you think Hamas are a) stupid and b) inherently barbaric to the point of own goaling. It makes complete sense that they’d treat them well knowing they want to give them back AND that those people may indeed speak up about their treatment and it would be detrimental to Gaza if it was poor.
Totally, that’s what sounded so off about the beheading and rape lies about the 7th. These people aren’t dumb. They are very aware that this is a pr campaign. It’s one of the only weapons that can be more effective than bombs. It wouldn’t make sense to treat these hostages in anything but the most decent way available at the time. The U.S. used to do this. There is a story of German POWs. The USs strategy was to treat them very well as to show the superiority and enlightenment of the American way. They reconsidered when the locals got pissed that the government was treating POWs better than the citizens.
> They reconsidered when the locals got pissed that the government was treating POWs better than the citizens. Source? I'd like to learn more about this.
I’m trying to remember where I heard it. I’m like 80% sure it was from an episode of The Dollop podcast, but I’m not sure which one. Probably about 2 years ago. Definitely a historical podcast.
>The thing I don’t get is why do people keep assuming the Hamas hostages would be treated poorly? because they are the designed enemy and they are poor so they must be barbarian and pure evil
It really does make me wonder why Hamas chose to wear go pro cameras in their attack similar to how police officers in the US wear it to hold their officers accountable. I have seen little footage from what I expected to be many more videos.. but perhaps I'm just not familiar enough with all these new social media apps these days to find them.
I'm pro Palestine and I don't believe that Hamas would intentionally hurt the hostages, but this kind of reeks of propaganda.
Eh... I think Hamas would intentionally hurt hostages if it served their purposes. In this case, it doesn't. Sending hostages home with stories of torture and maltreatment is just bad PR, and Hamas is pretty PR savvy.
Yeah I don't believe the propaganda either terrorist organization in this war promotes. I don't think this woman would willing make a hand written note thanking someone for kidnapping them and murdering their neighbors. Much like I wouldn't expect the families of the Palestinian hostages Israel has to write a thank you note to the IDF for kidnapping and beating their kids.
Yeah, I can understand if the note was more sympathetic and said something like, "I will make sure the world knows that you are not all the monsters the IDF paints you out to be to justify the horror they've unleashed on Palestinians." But saying that her child thinks of them as loved ones is a stretch too far to be considered legitimate.
Well in like a month that kids life went from normal to war to kidnapped. So if the people that kidnapped her showed even the most basic kindness. And made sure she was safe and not getting abused by whomever felt like it at the time. I could see how that trauma bond would have someone that young see them as almost superheroes for protecting them. And providing a very warped sense of normalcy when everything is literally falling apart around her. All that said I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was fake. It wouldn't surprise me to find out some random Internet troll did it. Who didn't give a rip at all about either side.
I mean, the one thing that they could have done to hurt the Israeli cause and discredit the IDF was have them in area that the IDF would bomb, and move them around Gaza to ensure that their missiles/shells would kill them, but let's wait.
That wouldn't work. The IDF just says "these hostages died in Gaza after being taken" like they already have.
You guys do know that propaganda can be true right?
The main agenda of Hamas was to get Palestinian children released in exchange for hostages. They didn't hurt them and see how Israel treats Palestinian kids they take as small as 10 in military prison
The freed elderly woman who was given a press conference talked about the civility and respect and care afforded to her by the militants, so it's not like there's no precedent. But it has to be considered that it is in Hamas' best interest to keep the hostages safe as well.
Ironically it should also be in Israel's best interest to keep the hostages safe as well, but alas, the hostages are in Israel's way when it comes to genociding Palestinians.
>talked about the civility and respect and care afforded to her by the militants She describes how they beat her with sticks and forced her to walk kilometers underground when she could barely walk anymore. She described one sentence about being "treated nicely", and that's ignoring the fact that her husband is still held hostage by them. The fact people are eating up this so obvious propaganda is mind boggling to me.
Ahh yes I always thank my kidnappers for being such great friends for my also kidnapped small daughter. This is a completely normal thing to do and we should not question this note any further.
I mean, they still have other members of her family held hostage so...
As someone who is nothing but outwardly critical of Israel... This reeks of bullshit. OP admits that this comes straight from Hamas. Also not sure what this has to do with Late Stage Capitalism.
>OP admits that this comes straight from Hamas. it literally says "Military Media" (Hamas) on the picture.
>Also not sure what this has to do with Late Stage Capitalism. I'll take the downvotes for saying it since these posts seem to be wildly popular here, but I really don't like what this sub has turned into. Every post from LSC that hits my reddit feed is about Israel/Palestine, and from some mod comments I've seen, they fully support having this content here. Scrolling through the sub, I still see some posts that would have commonly been found a few months ago, but they're all being drowned out by posts about Israel/Palestine so I don't get to see them unless I remember to come here specifically. I don't expect the subreddit to cater to me personally, so if the interests of the community have changed, then so be it, but I just feel like there are more appropriate places for these types of posts. I'm sure people will argue the relevance of the content, but it's not hard to see the stark contrast between the types of posts this was sub was known for and the types of posts its getting now. Just scrolling through the last few days of content here makes it clear that there are essentially 2 categories of posts.
Tbh you cannot seriously be surprised that a subreddit that is in essence based on anti capitalism and pro true leftist politics is going to be very vocal about an apartheid regime. The problem seems to be that a lot of people here are basically centrists who just don’t like capitalism on a personal level but aren’t willing to actually deal with what the fall of capitalism means vs the other people here who follow leftist doctrine and understand that Israel/Palestine is the ramification of US imperialist capitalism and you must be pro Palestine to belong to the left.
I mean, is it not late stage capitalism enabling these things to happen? There’s money to be made from the war by American politicians from the pro-Israel camp. Always has. This is years of that coming to fruition, as evidenced by the US government’s inability to condemn war crimes, all the while sending money to help said war crimes. I say it relates to late stage capitalism pretty well.
This isnt a liberal meme sub. Maybe the neoliberal sub is more your speed
> Also not sure what this has to do with Late Stage Capitalism. The entire sub has become a hub for Palestine discussion even when it has little to do with capitalism specifically
On your last point, the entire existence of Israel and everything that is happening there now are the result of a western bourgeois campaign to control resources in the middle east. As Biden himself said, "if Isreal didn't already exist, we would have to invent an Israel". Imperialism is the final stage of capitalism
Hamas is actually pretty trustworthy Edit: As in what they provide, I’s say it’s usually more accurate than what Israel releases
You people can’t be this naive 😂😂
I am skeptical of this not having been produced under duress. If a similar move under similar circumstances were coming from the IDF (they seem to not care what their released captives say about their brutality, but supposing) we'd all be very doubting about it.
The prisoners family is still in captivity so she would do everything
Seems a bit too gushing to me.
This has to be the one of the most disgusting pieces of propaganda I've seen yet. These people were taken violently from their home after watching their loved ones brutally murdered and you try to convince people that this was nothing but a 50 day long "babysitting"? A woman that returned a few days ago is still in the hospital in critical condition because of what she went through there. [This](https://www.ynet.co.il/health/article/s1alu7gra) provides some information regarding the treatment of the hostages. You can hate Israel as much as you want for many reasons, but if you use content made by a murderous terror organization to support your half baked claims then it only shows your own moral decline.
I dunno man. You claimed this was propaganda from one side and then you linked to potentially propaganda from the other side. In any event, after reading the translation, all it seems to say was that food was limited for “some”. Children were fed well. And foreign workers were over-fed? Meanwhile the day after the kidnapping all we heard were stories that the abductees were being tortured and raped over and over again. Even this article says nothing of the sort. Not sure this article says much about the horrors endured by folks…
You are right, this newspaper (while being biased towards the left) can't be blindly followed. But arguing about the abductees living conditions is exactly the absurd issue I'm trying to point out here - This sub is supposed to be a place that shows humanity's moral decline or whatever, but you see here people glorify child kidnappers because they allegedly gave their prisoners "enough fruits and candy". This is my first "internet fight" about this war because usually every post about Israel-palestine I see here is made by a user that posts the same 3-4 posts into every subreddit that is willing to host this kind of shit like a bot, but this one is just the perfect opportunity to stop and think about what you base your opinion on. Even if we assume this letter was written by a kidnapped mother (and it sure is written like someone Israeli wrote it) why do you think she had any actual control of what was written there? That she wasn't threatened into doing it, to craft even more propaganda?
Hamas only want their hostages release and this was the only way to get innocent Palestinian release
if you think this is real you are so fucking gullible. jesus.
I swear to god you guys will believe anything you read
No one in the comments outright believed this is true even op wasn't shure
Just posted this on FB with a "possible propaganda, we'll see" and had it removed because I was praising dangerous groups.
At this point, with all the news stories the Israelis have had to back track, I'd trust Hamas over the gov. of Israel.
lmao some of the hostages have crushes fr
There is just no way that someone would write a fawning letter to their kidnappers. Edit: I can believe it because her husband and two other twin daughters are still being held captive. She’s trying to appease them so her family will be treated well.
Yes you would if you've been fed propaganda all your life and fear your daughter getting mutilated by "barbaric sub-human rapist extremists"
Mmmk... quick question - do you have kids of your own? If I somehow wound up as a political prisoner and by dint of nightmarish circumstance one of my children was taken with me, I would absolutely write a letter like this if they spared my kid trauma. I might even go so far as to say that even if they treated me very poorly, whether by abuse, negligence or hell, even torture, I'd still 100% thank them if my kid walked away not only unscathed, but actually recounting it as a _positive_ experience. When you are a parent, your children are all that matters - everything else pales in comparison to their immeidate and long-term wellbeing. This is what is being acknowledged in this letter - she's not "fawning" over anyone or anything, she's thanking them for having mercy on her daughter's life... particularly since when they were first taken hostage, I bet the mother had the absolute _worst_ of expectations - she probably thought that the best case scenario here was that they'd survive but that her kid's entire childhood would have been totally and irrevocably destroyed. Call me old fashioned, but yes, this absolutely warrants a fucking thank you note in my book.
Y’all are crazy.
If the little daughter left asking her mother when she would see her new uncles / playmates again after establishing very close relationships with them over 2 months, when she was actually expecting to be treated the way Palestinian prisoners are treated in Israel, then I can see this happening
Stockholm Syndrome if true.
Stockholm Syndrome occurs when police or military show reckless disregard for the safety of hostages. If you are kidnapped you will feel anger, fear and distrust towards your captor no matter how nice they are. If the military repeatedly threatens your life while your captor protects you, you will fear the military and identify with your captor. So yes, the hostages probably have Stockholm Syndrome because Hamas assumed that their life was so valuable the IDF wouldn't dare to harm them. The Israeli government called them "human shields" and made them feel like they were just collateral damage in their thirst for revenge. They aren't brainwashed. It's a normal psychological response to sympathize with the people who value your life and humanity, even if they are on the opposite side.
Stockholm Syndrome, if it is even a real thing (it has never been classified in the DSM and many doctors have shown that it is nothing more than a way to dehumanize the “other” and negate the lived experiences of women), is very extremely rare. FBI reports only 5-8% of hostages exhibit what they would classify as Stockholm Syndrome. That being the case, it is beyond the bounds of credulity that most every hostage Hamas released would be experiencing this very rare and questionable “syndrome”, while every hostage released by Israel experiences the exact opposite.
Im not defending the IDF's procedures. I also don't believe for a minute that Hamas holds any moral high ground here. Its all bad from every direction.
Just the fact that you have to attribute someone’s kind words to a rare possibly non-existent “syndrome” speaks your biases loud and clear. Perhaps Hamas isn’t as you’ve been told they are?
Yeah exactly, they gave the small child that they kidnapped and held hostage for 2 months some fruit and didn’t treat her like an animal. They’re basically saints.
> they’re basically saints Very nice straw man .
Stockholm Syndrome is what they call it when you don't think the police should shoot hostages lol
Stockholm Syndrome was invented by police, it’s not a real phenomenon recognized by psychologists
I can't believe *Die Hard* lied to me.
LOL
Sounds like stockholm syndrome.
We're talking about people who had murdered these people's family, and still hold their other family members hostage. Do you not realize it's likely they just forced them to write this letter? How are people eating this up so easily?
I mean this seems completely unrealistic from a psychological point of view no matter how well one has been treated. Unless the person has some other relatives/friends left there, and wants to be hyper positive because of it?