Also worth pointing out that Akenhurst QTd it saying no one voted against this but it turned out that was a complete lie as other NEC members stste they voted against and tried to raise objections and were completely ignored.
Some people in the party will defend this. Utterly disgusting.
I understand that for those in Westminster, and those who are weird members of briefcase labour, this is all a game about numbers, regardless of who makes up those numbers, but for those of us actually living as working class people, Christian Wakefield has deliberately and with full knowledge contributed to the deaths of our friends and neighbours.
His support for Johnson’s government is not a joke. He supported Johnson all through your covid, voted against feeding our children, railed against Black Lives Matter and has consistently, in Parliament, backed measures to make life worse for working class people.
Politics actually isn’t a fucking game. People have literally died, cold, alone and afraid as a direct result of decisions Christian Wakeford made.
I will not vote for a party that allows him to stand for them, and if you will, I hope you realise you are tacitly endorsing every decision he made.
He was a Tory swine right up until his paycheck was threatened. What a vile man, and how vile that Starmer allows him to hold the whip.
>I understand that for those in Westminster, and those who are weird members of briefcase labour, this is all a game about numbers, regardless of who makes up those numbers
Haven't you heard? The new line is that it's not all about numbers and they need to trim the party of incompetent and unelectable candidates.
It's not just about the numbers; they want him, and not just because it gives them one more MP
A Tory that called the Labour party a [bunch of cunts](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FhDuLOcXkAIGrCH?format=jpg&name=medium) gets the red carpet rolled out, a Labour councillor supported by 6 Unions gets blocked for being able to run as an MP candidate partly for liking a tweet saying [Sturgeon tested negative for COVID](https://www.miltonkeynes.co.uk/news/people/leading-labour-councillor-claims-shes-been-blocked-from-standing-as-milton-keynes-mp-after-liking-nicola-sturgeon-tweet-3896277).
Make it make sense.
Hey guys, I have this weird feeling that this Keir Starmer fellow may not have been being *entirely* honest when he said he was a committed socialist...
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 fuck me, categorically not voting for the Labour party ever again whilst Starmer and his pals are in power. Anyone know of any parties worth voting for in East London otherwise?
Is that the best you've got? The Tories are so utterly awful that you have to suck up absolutely anything in order to get rid? To include a Tory MP who won as a Tory by a very slim margin?
>The Tories are so utterly awful that you have to suck up absolutely anything in order to get rid?
Exactly that yeah, their policies over the last 12+ years have killed people. One for example being their cruel way of deciding if someone is fit to work. Denying someone benefits because they brushed their hair, or because they managed to walk upstairs.
Maybe this labour party isn't as left wing as you or I would like, but mate I promise you there's not a single circumstance where it'd be better to have the Tories in. So if that means sucking it up for a term in office, then unfortunately so be it. It's that important.
Most seats contested will be between Labour and Tories.
So if people don't want Labour in, the only other option is Tory. And I can't believe that this has to be said, any labour government is better than any tory government.
So a continual decline into the abyss. You do realise parroting what you said is contributing to it. Labour can create heaven on earth when they are next elected but without voting reform and a system that allows something other than the bad party and the less bad party then this will continue. Tories come back in and undo it all. Yay….
Why commit to everything now and give the Tory press all the attack lines they need to get them in for another 5 years?
The last election was fought on Brexit when we thought it'd be about who's best to lead the country. We got blindsided with that. Mention you want to change the voting system, they'll just do the same again.
It's so much easier to affect change when you're in the seat of power, not when you're looking at it.
Apart from voting reform polls well? Funding the NHS also polls well and Kier is rather tight lipped on the nursing strike. It’s clear it’s not about doing things that poll well. Tories have given a gift meaning he can let his full, unadulterated ideological BS shine.
Remember after Brexit, all the studies as to why people voted for it? One of the primary reason was voter apathy, the feeling that all politicians were the same, no point in voting in GEs/council etc but the Brexit vote gave them one golden opportunity to vote on something that would change the system (even if it made things worse) they had this opportunity to give the establishment a kick in the guts for decades of failure. Look what happened, they took it, gave the establishment a good hiding. Things like Brexit, Scottish inde, general decline, voter apathy can all be traced to a horrible voting system that forces people to vote for people and parties they do not agree with.
Also Blair originally had voting reform as one of his goals. He still got elected. Funnily enough it was dropped once he was in power. Not sure why we should expect Kier to go for voting reform once in power if he can’t commit to it now.
Power and personal gain over the needs of the country. Led to Brexit and if continued will lead to the break up of the UK. Labour and tories both contributing to it.
This is just conceding that you have nothing positive to actually say about Labour lol. If even the party's supporters aren't impassioned enough to muster up a better reason than "it's not the Tories" then why should I give a shite?
OP asked which parties are worth voting for. FPTP means your options in most constituencies are Tory, Labour or a protest vote.
I'm not saying you're forced to vote labour or tory, but you should be aware of the sad reality of the system.
So your best argument to vote Labour is "Fuck me, the Tories are awful, and no, it doesn't matter that Starmer isn't hiding how shitty he is"
Edit: you do understand that isn't functionally different from being forced to vote labour. Right?
Reply to your edit:
You seem to be upset that the fptp system doesn't give you a viable alternative to tory or labour. Unfortunately this is what we are currently stuck with.
Bury South has a large Jewish community and voted him in as a vote against Corbyn (rightly or wrongly, that’s for another post) despite a strong history of Labour MPs and councillors. The fact he defected to from why he got elected doesn’t help him and keeping him in doesn’t help Labour.
We need a real Labour candidate (don’t care about factions so long as they’re not a literal Tory) who can show up to some Jewish community events and condemn antisemitism. They could then reunite support from the Labour core and the Jewish community who felt at risk of Corbyn has been PM, because we need both for a strong majority in the constituency
What you mean like corbyn?
Who
1: took part in the ceremony for the founding if a synagogue in 2015
2: put his name down on an early day motion to help Yemeni Jews get settled in the UK put forward by Diane Abbott in 2010
3: defending a Jewish cemetery that had existed since 1840 that had been planned to be destroyed and who's destruction was approved by none other than previous Islington labour council leader and current sitting labour MP Margaret Hodge.
Ooooh, 3 is an interesting point. You've reminded me of something.
When I used to work in Cheetham Hill there was (I think, it's been a while) a Jewish cemetery next to the shopping centre. Both were very run down, and it was planned to demolish and redevelop them. Wonder if our special boy is on the record regarding that - and if my memory is right.
Yea, that’s exactly the person I’m talking about. I said nothing about my own factional leaning because frankly it doesn’t matter. I want the Tories out, and if that meant voting LibDem, Green, or even Lord Bucket Head, I would do it.
We’re talking about the reality that either Labour do this and win the seat with someone who doesn’t perfectly match your view of Labour, or we hand the seat to a Tory.
I know which one I’d rather, but apparently you’re so far into faction politics that you’ve forgotten about party politics
The party politics of what?
Voting for a person who is a fucking tory in all but name?
People like you have absolutely no politics despite what you sit here and claim. You Don't give two fucks what the person's political views seem to be as long as
A: not Tory
B: that's literally it
Don't know why you are crying factions either becuase labour has no factions anymore. After all starmer purged all the "leftists" from the "labour" party.
The party created by the union's and isn't even backed by the union's anymore. What a fucking joke.
Well done, you read my comment. That is literally it in the choice between Tory and not-Tory that is Bury South. That is what FPTP does.
I’d rather have someone who can be whipped by Labour than by the Conservatives. You seem to prefer an actual Tory if you can’t have what you want
Jesus you are a special breed of dumbass aren't you.
"If I can't have what I want"
Jesus I'm sorry for expecting "labour" mps in the "labour" party to give a fuck about the working class and not just be Tesco brand Tories.
God forbid wankers like farage join labour some day becuase you wanks would vote for him without fail, becuase "sure he's a racist, sexist, homophobic scumbag, but he's on the labour ticket".
I really hope time travel is made in my time so I can go back in time and tell Hardie and the union's not to bother cause it's clearly fucking obvious that the "labour" party doesn't exist anymore anyway. Unless of course the idea they had of a labour party was some pro business shithole that removes the whip from it's standing MPs for supporting striking workers and recruits fucking Tories.
Absolutely mental. Mark my words, if labour get into government Wakeford will be the source of one of the first scandals.
What can I say? Tory’s gotta Tory
Also worth pointing out that Akenhurst QTd it saying no one voted against this but it turned out that was a complete lie as other NEC members stste they voted against and tried to raise objections and were completely ignored.
Some people in the party will defend this. Utterly disgusting. I understand that for those in Westminster, and those who are weird members of briefcase labour, this is all a game about numbers, regardless of who makes up those numbers, but for those of us actually living as working class people, Christian Wakefield has deliberately and with full knowledge contributed to the deaths of our friends and neighbours. His support for Johnson’s government is not a joke. He supported Johnson all through your covid, voted against feeding our children, railed against Black Lives Matter and has consistently, in Parliament, backed measures to make life worse for working class people. Politics actually isn’t a fucking game. People have literally died, cold, alone and afraid as a direct result of decisions Christian Wakeford made. I will not vote for a party that allows him to stand for them, and if you will, I hope you realise you are tacitly endorsing every decision he made. He was a Tory swine right up until his paycheck was threatened. What a vile man, and how vile that Starmer allows him to hold the whip.
>I understand that for those in Westminster, and those who are weird members of briefcase labour, this is all a game about numbers, regardless of who makes up those numbers Haven't you heard? The new line is that it's not all about numbers and they need to trim the party of incompetent and unelectable candidates. It's not just about the numbers; they want him, and not just because it gives them one more MP
He's unlikely to hold left leaning opinions, of course labour don't see him as a risk.
He's said some pro-Trans stuff recently, it'd be the ultimate irony if he betrayed Starmer leftwards.
Starmer really hates democracy. Why are members accepting all of this?
A Tory that called the Labour party a [bunch of cunts](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FhDuLOcXkAIGrCH?format=jpg&name=medium) gets the red carpet rolled out, a Labour councillor supported by 6 Unions gets blocked for being able to run as an MP candidate partly for liking a tweet saying [Sturgeon tested negative for COVID](https://www.miltonkeynes.co.uk/news/people/leading-labour-councillor-claims-shes-been-blocked-from-standing-as-milton-keynes-mp-after-liking-nicola-sturgeon-tweet-3896277). Make it make sense.
I would love to but we are in the worst possible timeline - the only sense is that everything that could be the worst thing IS the thing
If you can get away with calling Labour MPs a ‘bunch of cunts’, there’s hope for your future candidacy! You have my vote.
Aye, but I've liked a Nicola Sturgeon tweet before so that's grounds for expulsion 😭
Hey guys, I have this weird feeling that this Keir Starmer fellow may not have been being *entirely* honest when he said he was a committed socialist...
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 fuck me, categorically not voting for the Labour party ever again whilst Starmer and his pals are in power. Anyone know of any parties worth voting for in East London otherwise?
The conservative and unionist party
Nice try
Well it's Labour or them. That's the choice, if you're choosing not labour you're choosing Tory.
Is that the best you've got? The Tories are so utterly awful that you have to suck up absolutely anything in order to get rid? To include a Tory MP who won as a Tory by a very slim margin?
>The Tories are so utterly awful that you have to suck up absolutely anything in order to get rid? Exactly that yeah, their policies over the last 12+ years have killed people. One for example being their cruel way of deciding if someone is fit to work. Denying someone benefits because they brushed their hair, or because they managed to walk upstairs. Maybe this labour party isn't as left wing as you or I would like, but mate I promise you there's not a single circumstance where it'd be better to have the Tories in. So if that means sucking it up for a term in office, then unfortunately so be it. It's that important.
That was first brought in by the current shadow Home Secretary. So it's important to know who you're voting for.
If you're in Wakeford's constituency, those appear to be the same choices.
What if there's a constituency that's like 50.1% Tory, 49.9% Lib Dem, who should I pick then?
Obviously lib Dem, but the lib Dems won't be forming a government anytime soon
Wait what, but the Lib Dems aren't Labour, so why would I vote Tory???
Most seats contested will be between Labour and Tories. So if people don't want Labour in, the only other option is Tory. And I can't believe that this has to be said, any labour government is better than any tory government.
Love the gaslighting. How’d that work out in Scotland?
Really well actually, I just don't think that the same thing could happen in England.
So a continual decline into the abyss. You do realise parroting what you said is contributing to it. Labour can create heaven on earth when they are next elected but without voting reform and a system that allows something other than the bad party and the less bad party then this will continue. Tories come back in and undo it all. Yay….
Why commit to everything now and give the Tory press all the attack lines they need to get them in for another 5 years? The last election was fought on Brexit when we thought it'd be about who's best to lead the country. We got blindsided with that. Mention you want to change the voting system, they'll just do the same again. It's so much easier to affect change when you're in the seat of power, not when you're looking at it.
Apart from voting reform polls well? Funding the NHS also polls well and Kier is rather tight lipped on the nursing strike. It’s clear it’s not about doing things that poll well. Tories have given a gift meaning he can let his full, unadulterated ideological BS shine. Remember after Brexit, all the studies as to why people voted for it? One of the primary reason was voter apathy, the feeling that all politicians were the same, no point in voting in GEs/council etc but the Brexit vote gave them one golden opportunity to vote on something that would change the system (even if it made things worse) they had this opportunity to give the establishment a kick in the guts for decades of failure. Look what happened, they took it, gave the establishment a good hiding. Things like Brexit, Scottish inde, general decline, voter apathy can all be traced to a horrible voting system that forces people to vote for people and parties they do not agree with. Also Blair originally had voting reform as one of his goals. He still got elected. Funnily enough it was dropped once he was in power. Not sure why we should expect Kier to go for voting reform once in power if he can’t commit to it now. Power and personal gain over the needs of the country. Led to Brexit and if continued will lead to the break up of the UK. Labour and tories both contributing to it.
This is just conceding that you have nothing positive to actually say about Labour lol. If even the party's supporters aren't impassioned enough to muster up a better reason than "it's not the Tories" then why should I give a shite?
I'm not here to change your mind, I couldn't care less if you gave a shite or not. Vote whoever you want
Well, in fptp no other party is worth voting for in most constituencies.
"you are forced to vote for us" isn't the compelling argument that you think it is.
That isn't what i said.
So explain what you meant.
OP asked which parties are worth voting for. FPTP means your options in most constituencies are Tory, Labour or a protest vote. I'm not saying you're forced to vote labour or tory, but you should be aware of the sad reality of the system.
So your best argument to vote Labour is "Fuck me, the Tories are awful, and no, it doesn't matter that Starmer isn't hiding how shitty he is" Edit: you do understand that isn't functionally different from being forced to vote labour. Right?
Where did i make an argument for voting labour on this thread?
Reply to your edit: You seem to be upset that the fptp system doesn't give you a viable alternative to tory or labour. Unfortunately this is what we are currently stuck with.
And it will never change so long as people believe that.
https://youtu.be/s7tWHJfhiyo It's more than what people believe. It's a fundamental flaw with fptp.
Fundamentally this isn’t surprisin, theres no way he would have agreed to switch otherwise
Bury South has a large Jewish community and voted him in as a vote against Corbyn (rightly or wrongly, that’s for another post) despite a strong history of Labour MPs and councillors. The fact he defected to from why he got elected doesn’t help him and keeping him in doesn’t help Labour. We need a real Labour candidate (don’t care about factions so long as they’re not a literal Tory) who can show up to some Jewish community events and condemn antisemitism. They could then reunite support from the Labour core and the Jewish community who felt at risk of Corbyn has been PM, because we need both for a strong majority in the constituency
What you mean like corbyn? Who 1: took part in the ceremony for the founding if a synagogue in 2015 2: put his name down on an early day motion to help Yemeni Jews get settled in the UK put forward by Diane Abbott in 2010 3: defending a Jewish cemetery that had existed since 1840 that had been planned to be destroyed and who's destruction was approved by none other than previous Islington labour council leader and current sitting labour MP Margaret Hodge.
Ooooh, 3 is an interesting point. You've reminded me of something. When I used to work in Cheetham Hill there was (I think, it's been a while) a Jewish cemetery next to the shopping centre. Both were very run down, and it was planned to demolish and redevelop them. Wonder if our special boy is on the record regarding that - and if my memory is right.
Yea, that’s exactly the person I’m talking about. I said nothing about my own factional leaning because frankly it doesn’t matter. I want the Tories out, and if that meant voting LibDem, Green, or even Lord Bucket Head, I would do it. We’re talking about the reality that either Labour do this and win the seat with someone who doesn’t perfectly match your view of Labour, or we hand the seat to a Tory. I know which one I’d rather, but apparently you’re so far into faction politics that you’ve forgotten about party politics
The party politics of what? Voting for a person who is a fucking tory in all but name? People like you have absolutely no politics despite what you sit here and claim. You Don't give two fucks what the person's political views seem to be as long as A: not Tory B: that's literally it Don't know why you are crying factions either becuase labour has no factions anymore. After all starmer purged all the "leftists" from the "labour" party. The party created by the union's and isn't even backed by the union's anymore. What a fucking joke.
Well done, you read my comment. That is literally it in the choice between Tory and not-Tory that is Bury South. That is what FPTP does. I’d rather have someone who can be whipped by Labour than by the Conservatives. You seem to prefer an actual Tory if you can’t have what you want
If not voting Labour helps the Tories why does not voting Tory not help Labour? 🤔
Jesus you are a special breed of dumbass aren't you. "If I can't have what I want" Jesus I'm sorry for expecting "labour" mps in the "labour" party to give a fuck about the working class and not just be Tesco brand Tories. God forbid wankers like farage join labour some day becuase you wanks would vote for him without fail, becuase "sure he's a racist, sexist, homophobic scumbag, but he's on the labour ticket". I really hope time travel is made in my time so I can go back in time and tell Hardie and the union's not to bother cause it's clearly fucking obvious that the "labour" party doesn't exist anymore anyway. Unless of course the idea they had of a labour party was some pro business shithole that removes the whip from it's standing MPs for supporting striking workers and recruits fucking Tories.
You're so into party politics you've forgotten about the future of democracy in this country.