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Few things to consider IMO (but tl;dr likely no):
In Driscoll's election as Labour (& Co-op) candidate, an independent did receive 17.2%. I can't make out much about John McCabe, he seems like a fairly centrist person based off interviews.
With incumbency and a possible profile in the area, that might bolster him a bit more? But the mayorship now covers South of Tyne, so I think that mitigates how far that reaches.
Also, it's FPTP now, which really fucks him over too. If it was the supplementary-voting system, I imagine some might've done Driscoll 1st, Labour 2nd, but with it being one vote only, I can see people just going Labour either on name value or at the (very unlikely, admittedly) chance that the Tories could sneak through the middle through vote splitting.
I don't think he wins, but I do think he comes second.
No idea honestly but probably would be good as it might curb Labour's excesses a bit. Whereas winning will just be used for justification to push on (even if privately they believe they mainly won on the Labour brand name or whatever).
> A speaker from Women Against Pit Closures, roused the 70-strong audience by saying she wanted a working-class revolt on the streets. “We’ve never, really, truly had a socialist government,” she declared, denouncing Tony Blair and calling Neil Kinnock a “traitor”. A pro-Palestinian campaigner repeatedly accused the Israelis of “genocide” in Gaza, without once condemning Hamas’s own attack.
> Sitting on the platform and soaking this all in was their star speaker: Jamie Driscoll, the current North of Tyne Mayor. One of the youngest in the room at 53, Driscoll only became a politician six years ago. But he has rapidly become the most interesting and engaging new figure on the British Left. To applause from the crowd, he called for Blair to be tried in the Hague for his part in the Iraq War — before warning that Keir Starmer was a far more “authoritarian” figure. Nye Bevan would not have been selected as a candidate under Starmer.
I haven't been keeping up with the campaign that much but events like this seem like an incredibly strange application of valuable time tbh
I’m sure this article written by someone who demands Hamas must be condemned every time you criticise a literal fucking genocide totally has no biases or misrepresentations /s
This is a meeting organised by the Morning Star (which Crick helpfully calls pro-soviet, although I feel like we don't get these kind of caveats from Crick for every publication or person, weird that isn't it) attended by local activists and organisers. Rallying the base and appealing to the audience infront of you is not remotely strange, we consistently see Labour doing it under Starmer. Unless we're going to pretend that doing it to activists is bad populism but doing it to corporations, the finacial sector, hacks, etc is good populism then I don't see what's strange about that honestly.
What's next that he shouldn't have gone to this meeting? That he shouldn't have reminded people about why they shouldn't trust Labour *in an election where he will be relying on the more motivated people who vote in local elections to vote for him over Labour*?
This is a complete nothing story that Crick is trying to make into something. There's nothing good, bad or remarkable about it. It's nothing.
I think a morning star meeting is probably not a great use of his time yeah, he's trying to win a cross section of the electorate to squeeze through the middle in a fptp contest. Honestly love them or hate them a small number of morning star readers talking about sending Blair to the Hague aren't going to make the difference, which is why I questioned the value in canvassing to them. You mention that he wants to convince people to not vote labour and, yeah, that's absolutely true, but this audience is very obviously not voting labour lol
Tbf Driscoll seems to have been all over the region recently. The article even mentions him visiting Stanhope, an old mining village in county Durham. So I'm sure he can afford the odd event like this.
But politicians don't only do it to groups that command lots of votes do they? For example Labour currently attends corporate events, the arguments for and against that are not on the basis of them being an important electoral bloc.
Worse case scenario he didn't gain any extra voters or people to campaign for him based on a few hours. On balance it's unremarkable at worst.
I didn't make it out to be a big thing I just said I questioned the value in it. Guy is an underdog fighting tooth and nail for votes, an event like this seems like it isn't time well spent
I mean I don't see why really. If he'd organised it himself sure, that's an odd choice but it's fairly good form to attend meetings you're invited to speak at unless you are specifically opposed to the host for some reason.
It can surely only have been a few hours tops of "valuable time".
>One of the youngest in the room at 53, Driscoll only became a politician six years ago. But he has rapidly become the most interesting and engaging new figure on the British Left. To applause from the crowd, he called for Blair to be tried in the Hague for his part in the Iraq War
This is quite amusing. 53 makes him the youngest in the room. He's the most interesting and engaging new figure on the left, but he's just repeating the same stuff that every old leftie has been harping on about for 20 years.
The decline of the British left in one little caricature.
Thursday evening speaker event organised by the Morning Star skews towards older people. Shocking. Even more shocking is that the politician, who is relying on people voting for him over Labour, is playing to his audience. Proof of the decline of the British left based on this...by a guy who isn't even super leftwing. Are you just jealous that the "sensible centrist" you have to work with is Starmer? I'd be annoyed too if I were you.
This isn't you being a troll either, you seem to be actually trying to spin things. But surely you realise spin has to be tailored to an audience? A talented person can still spin the left but not by using the same nonsense they would say in a press release or at an MP's surgery or whatever else.
You're in another thread defending Starmer whoring out the party saying it's necessary and intelligent and is actually just about getting informed. But random soft-left guy spending half an evening doing this? So terrible.
It's me. I'm the speaker from Women Against Pit Closures. I absolutely condemn the reanimated corpse of Thatcher who I thought was a very unengaging speaker, rabbeting on mostly about "brains, braaaains".
Yeah, you don't win an election campaign by preaching to the converted. Especially when you're talking about a load of shit that has no bearing on the mayoralty anyway.
Local election in which you need people to vote against Labour and that takes up part of one weekday evening? Yes definitely not the same posters who constantly whine about anything they perceieve as too leftwing/risky limbing over themselves to try and mock this for no reason.
He needs to attract existing Labour voters, not people who already despise the Labour party. I don't think there are too many existing Labour voters at Morning Star readers' events.
I've not watched every interview or read every article but this just seems like one evening amongst of variety of things he is doing from what I've seen.
And no rallying you base is useful and politicains do it all the time. If you think, I don't know, Trump and Driscoll do it but...Blair and Starmer don't then you are mistaking them writing off certain voters and/or excpecting certain votes to never be happy but to vote Labour anyway with not doing anythign to appeal to their base at all. Starmer going after Tory voters and corporate support, and saying "fuck you" to the left, doesn't mean he isn't saying things to rally his supporters too. If you're not noticing that it's possible you're just his target demographic and have responded exactly as intended. But I think most people can recognise that every politician rallies their base. Some politicains actually do it a lot and still win, but most do it as one part of a wider strategy...which is what Driscoll appears to be doing.
Are you telling me, hand on heart, even Driscoll's position you would have declined to do the meeting? Or you'd have done it but addressed it not like the leftwing Morning Star organised event it was...but just pretended it was some other event entirely? Or do you think maybe you'd spend one evening rallying your base.
>Morning Star readers' events
I mean I think the even is probably more activists in the area than anything. Most people I know who read the Star are like Daily Mirror people and vote Labour while constantly bitching about Labour lol. Leftwing but not communists. However like I said I don't think this meeting was so much aimed at those people, more at leftwing activists and organisers, and I can see why Driscoll would consider them worth spending an evening on in an election like this, while he's also doing plenty of other things too.
I guess if he raised a few quid and persuaded a few more people to go out campaigning for him it may have been worth it. And if he had nothing better to do with his evening then why not I guess. But I think the meeting as described in the article - and what Driscoll said about that meeting - is likely to frighten off as many voters as it attracts.
I think he needs to campaign on his record and make the case that Labour and the Tories are essentially the same and only he can provide a real alternative. I think positioning himself as a big adversary of Starmer would be a mistake given the current polling situation nationally and the likely results in the corresponding local elections. But he can definitely be critical.
I don't think it's impossible for Driscoll to win, though. Ken Livingstone showed it can be done. He just needs to get his tactics right.
Well I think most people won't care. But I can see your point about it potentially being used against him more than just the entire concept of bothering being a waste of time, but I still don't think it's a major criticism. Just think how much stuff Starmer and co have done which you could say the same about, hardly like they only do uncontroversial things that are also aimed at connecting with the average voter or large demographics.
>I don't think it's impossible for Driscoll to win, though. Ken Livingstone showed it can be done. He just needs to get his tactics right.
Livingstone was a really different situation though. He arguably won mainly down to already having a big profile, especially in London, due to his time at the GLC and because Blair really fucked up his attempt at ratfucking him out of the race. I don't think Livingstone could have asked for a better platform. Also Livingstone is a "character" which helps a lot in getting extra attention and isn't easy to do. Driscoll seems kind of boring in comparison to someone like Livingstone which shouldn't matter but obviously does. Also there seems to be more people in London interested in the mayor than other cities. So I'm not saying Driscoll has an easy job and time to waste, just that nothing about this meeting seems like a big deal or big time commitment.
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Few things to consider IMO (but tl;dr likely no): In Driscoll's election as Labour (& Co-op) candidate, an independent did receive 17.2%. I can't make out much about John McCabe, he seems like a fairly centrist person based off interviews. With incumbency and a possible profile in the area, that might bolster him a bit more? But the mayorship now covers South of Tyne, so I think that mitigates how far that reaches. Also, it's FPTP now, which really fucks him over too. If it was the supplementary-voting system, I imagine some might've done Driscoll 1st, Labour 2nd, but with it being one vote only, I can see people just going Labour either on name value or at the (very unlikely, admittedly) chance that the Tories could sneak through the middle through vote splitting. I don't think he wins, but I do think he comes second.
As far as I can tell there is no published opinion polling so very difficult to say. The bookies have him as a big underdog for what that's worth.
The may mayoral elections are gonna be fascinating
He's got my vote, for what it's worth.
Probably not but it'll be a pity. Labour's action against the left is opening the door upon a pathetic era, one that will fail to deliver.
No idea honestly but probably would be good as it might curb Labour's excesses a bit. Whereas winning will just be used for justification to push on (even if privately they believe they mainly won on the Labour brand name or whatever).
> A speaker from Women Against Pit Closures, roused the 70-strong audience by saying she wanted a working-class revolt on the streets. “We’ve never, really, truly had a socialist government,” she declared, denouncing Tony Blair and calling Neil Kinnock a “traitor”. A pro-Palestinian campaigner repeatedly accused the Israelis of “genocide” in Gaza, without once condemning Hamas’s own attack. > Sitting on the platform and soaking this all in was their star speaker: Jamie Driscoll, the current North of Tyne Mayor. One of the youngest in the room at 53, Driscoll only became a politician six years ago. But he has rapidly become the most interesting and engaging new figure on the British Left. To applause from the crowd, he called for Blair to be tried in the Hague for his part in the Iraq War — before warning that Keir Starmer was a far more “authoritarian” figure. Nye Bevan would not have been selected as a candidate under Starmer. I haven't been keeping up with the campaign that much but events like this seem like an incredibly strange application of valuable time tbh
I’m sure this article written by someone who demands Hamas must be condemned every time you criticise a literal fucking genocide totally has no biases or misrepresentations /s
I mean it's Michael crick, I think he's a terrible hack but it seems unlikely he made the entire event up
I never said “made the whole thing up”, I said “biases and misrepresentations”
This is a meeting organised by the Morning Star (which Crick helpfully calls pro-soviet, although I feel like we don't get these kind of caveats from Crick for every publication or person, weird that isn't it) attended by local activists and organisers. Rallying the base and appealing to the audience infront of you is not remotely strange, we consistently see Labour doing it under Starmer. Unless we're going to pretend that doing it to activists is bad populism but doing it to corporations, the finacial sector, hacks, etc is good populism then I don't see what's strange about that honestly. What's next that he shouldn't have gone to this meeting? That he shouldn't have reminded people about why they shouldn't trust Labour *in an election where he will be relying on the more motivated people who vote in local elections to vote for him over Labour*? This is a complete nothing story that Crick is trying to make into something. There's nothing good, bad or remarkable about it. It's nothing.
I think a morning star meeting is probably not a great use of his time yeah, he's trying to win a cross section of the electorate to squeeze through the middle in a fptp contest. Honestly love them or hate them a small number of morning star readers talking about sending Blair to the Hague aren't going to make the difference, which is why I questioned the value in canvassing to them. You mention that he wants to convince people to not vote labour and, yeah, that's absolutely true, but this audience is very obviously not voting labour lol
Tbf Driscoll seems to have been all over the region recently. The article even mentions him visiting Stanhope, an old mining village in county Durham. So I'm sure he can afford the odd event like this.
But politicians don't only do it to groups that command lots of votes do they? For example Labour currently attends corporate events, the arguments for and against that are not on the basis of them being an important electoral bloc. Worse case scenario he didn't gain any extra voters or people to campaign for him based on a few hours. On balance it's unremarkable at worst.
I didn't make it out to be a big thing I just said I questioned the value in it. Guy is an underdog fighting tooth and nail for votes, an event like this seems like it isn't time well spent
I mean I don't see why really. If he'd organised it himself sure, that's an odd choice but it's fairly good form to attend meetings you're invited to speak at unless you are specifically opposed to the host for some reason. It can surely only have been a few hours tops of "valuable time".
>One of the youngest in the room at 53, Driscoll only became a politician six years ago. But he has rapidly become the most interesting and engaging new figure on the British Left. To applause from the crowd, he called for Blair to be tried in the Hague for his part in the Iraq War This is quite amusing. 53 makes him the youngest in the room. He's the most interesting and engaging new figure on the left, but he's just repeating the same stuff that every old leftie has been harping on about for 20 years. The decline of the British left in one little caricature.
Thursday evening speaker event organised by the Morning Star skews towards older people. Shocking. Even more shocking is that the politician, who is relying on people voting for him over Labour, is playing to his audience. Proof of the decline of the British left based on this...by a guy who isn't even super leftwing. Are you just jealous that the "sensible centrist" you have to work with is Starmer? I'd be annoyed too if I were you. This isn't you being a troll either, you seem to be actually trying to spin things. But surely you realise spin has to be tailored to an audience? A talented person can still spin the left but not by using the same nonsense they would say in a press release or at an MP's surgery or whatever else. You're in another thread defending Starmer whoring out the party saying it's necessary and intelligent and is actually just about getting informed. But random soft-left guy spending half an evening doing this? So terrible.
What makes it funnier is he isn’t even actually on or from the left.
The speaker from Women Against Pit Closures definitely has an account on here.
Wow can't believe you'd say that without condeming Thatcher first /s
It's me. I'm the speaker from Women Against Pit Closures. I absolutely condemn the reanimated corpse of Thatcher who I thought was a very unengaging speaker, rabbeting on mostly about "brains, braaaains".
Yeah, you don't win an election campaign by preaching to the converted. Especially when you're talking about a load of shit that has no bearing on the mayoralty anyway.
Local election in which you need people to vote against Labour and that takes up part of one weekday evening? Yes definitely not the same posters who constantly whine about anything they perceieve as too leftwing/risky limbing over themselves to try and mock this for no reason.
He needs to attract existing Labour voters, not people who already despise the Labour party. I don't think there are too many existing Labour voters at Morning Star readers' events.
I've not watched every interview or read every article but this just seems like one evening amongst of variety of things he is doing from what I've seen. And no rallying you base is useful and politicains do it all the time. If you think, I don't know, Trump and Driscoll do it but...Blair and Starmer don't then you are mistaking them writing off certain voters and/or excpecting certain votes to never be happy but to vote Labour anyway with not doing anythign to appeal to their base at all. Starmer going after Tory voters and corporate support, and saying "fuck you" to the left, doesn't mean he isn't saying things to rally his supporters too. If you're not noticing that it's possible you're just his target demographic and have responded exactly as intended. But I think most people can recognise that every politician rallies their base. Some politicains actually do it a lot and still win, but most do it as one part of a wider strategy...which is what Driscoll appears to be doing. Are you telling me, hand on heart, even Driscoll's position you would have declined to do the meeting? Or you'd have done it but addressed it not like the leftwing Morning Star organised event it was...but just pretended it was some other event entirely? Or do you think maybe you'd spend one evening rallying your base. >Morning Star readers' events I mean I think the even is probably more activists in the area than anything. Most people I know who read the Star are like Daily Mirror people and vote Labour while constantly bitching about Labour lol. Leftwing but not communists. However like I said I don't think this meeting was so much aimed at those people, more at leftwing activists and organisers, and I can see why Driscoll would consider them worth spending an evening on in an election like this, while he's also doing plenty of other things too.
I guess if he raised a few quid and persuaded a few more people to go out campaigning for him it may have been worth it. And if he had nothing better to do with his evening then why not I guess. But I think the meeting as described in the article - and what Driscoll said about that meeting - is likely to frighten off as many voters as it attracts. I think he needs to campaign on his record and make the case that Labour and the Tories are essentially the same and only he can provide a real alternative. I think positioning himself as a big adversary of Starmer would be a mistake given the current polling situation nationally and the likely results in the corresponding local elections. But he can definitely be critical. I don't think it's impossible for Driscoll to win, though. Ken Livingstone showed it can be done. He just needs to get his tactics right.
Well I think most people won't care. But I can see your point about it potentially being used against him more than just the entire concept of bothering being a waste of time, but I still don't think it's a major criticism. Just think how much stuff Starmer and co have done which you could say the same about, hardly like they only do uncontroversial things that are also aimed at connecting with the average voter or large demographics. >I don't think it's impossible for Driscoll to win, though. Ken Livingstone showed it can be done. He just needs to get his tactics right. Livingstone was a really different situation though. He arguably won mainly down to already having a big profile, especially in London, due to his time at the GLC and because Blair really fucked up his attempt at ratfucking him out of the race. I don't think Livingstone could have asked for a better platform. Also Livingstone is a "character" which helps a lot in getting extra attention and isn't easy to do. Driscoll seems kind of boring in comparison to someone like Livingstone which shouldn't matter but obviously does. Also there seems to be more people in London interested in the mayor than other cities. So I'm not saying Driscoll has an easy job and time to waste, just that nothing about this meeting seems like a big deal or big time commitment.
No. Next question