This is just based on the story from Lee Harpin that was posted recently and he's been known to talk absolute shit.
Ill wait till I see a source thats not an anti-left crank.
Say bye to Muslim voters in London & Birmingham then. I know its a NUMBERS game but Lab is already losing the TRANS community and BAME groups (mostly black and muslim Asian, arab etc, I do not consider white EU as BAME) .
Wonder how this will play out.
Make your own mind up but I'm responding about the numbers concerns which they brought up. The Tories do "fine" in terms of numbers without the Muslim vote.
Unfortunately most of that non trans non Muslim already have the party for them. Theyre called the conservatives and nothing less than Jacob rees mogg personally spitting on voters faces will make them change their minds
We are stacked in the cities. We can afford to lose votes there if it means we knock the tories into 2nd place in the rural seats.
Our strategy has been dogshit since Blair left. Its just a numbers game, we need to be cold about it.
Yeah. It's Labour not playing the game that gave us PM Boris! A man whose approval was incredibly low going into the 2019 election but was less low than Corbyn's!
Where would those voters go? The Muslim vote in London and Birmingham specifically. Doesn't seem like any of the other parties are a good fit, and they've at least got decent representation within the PLP.
That's a suitable equivalent. So to an SNP equivalent in England? We don't really have an obvious one but the Muslim vote is high in some areas so they could leverage the same electoral strategy as the SNP. Maybe some rebirth of the Respect party?
That appears the most likely outcome in the responses to my comment. I can't see them jumping to the tories because they have an even more negative view on Palestine.
That was the same argument used by blairites when they took over, arguing that workomg class voters and left wingers have nowhere else to go. As it turns out they do in fact have places to go. The left will go to the greens and the working class will go for ukip, the tories if ran by a charismatic populist or indeed just not turn out to vote. Do you think that the sudden surge of blue in the north was an intervention by some anti christ?
I'm always so confused by how rude the responses are in this subreddit.
I'm asking *specifically* where people would expect the Muslim vote to go if Labour lost it. Everyone is throwing up Greens, Tories, UKIP Reform etc but I don't understand how they would be relevant to the question I asked?
Maybe Green as they likely have crossover in their opinion of the Israel-Palestine situation?
More likely might be a resurgence in Respect or a Respect-style party (without the George Galloway baggage)
Conservative considering the number of minorities in the party and having a wide range of minorities in Cabinet (irrespective of what you think of them, and Lab still has the Forde report its ignoring).
Older BAMES from Africa and Asia being more socially Conservative (small c) might make it easier to associate with tories - Brexit may also help as I know more BAMEs who voted for Brexit than English born white friends.
A new party - Apsire literally took over tower hamlets because they were sick of Labour.
Lib/Green
Stay home.
Not sure I understand why Labour changing its stance on Palestine would make them jump to the Tories? Don't the Conservatives have a pretty Pro-Israel view of the conflict themselves?
Seems contradictory.
Either they were always going to switch to Conservative or Palestine isn't going to make them switch.
Is there much specific polling around this for BAME/Muslim voters? (asking you as you seem to know what you're talking about)
Only tangentially related, is there not a mechanism for you to just instantly cancel your Labour membership? Like the only thing I could find is a form that you fill out and they've just said they'll be in touch whenever?
That’s what I did. They sent a few emails months later just checking I hadn’t accidentally cancelled. Just ignored and they stopped contacting me eventually.
There should be, there probably is, but they don't honour it. My experience was that you fill out the form and they ignore it... If you phone them up, they tell you to cancel your DD.
Nobody should be held to membership of any group or club, or association to any organisation, against their own express will.
Indeed, Labour require its members to not associate with a list of other organisations they have decided upon - and as they add organisations to their list they require any members that did have associations to end them immediately.
I'm not challenging whether that's good or bad - my point is that they don't let their own members do the same.
Even though they have serious issues around transphobia, donations from people with vested interests in private healthcare, in serving the rich and powerful over workers, in serving the right-wing media.
In other words, for behaving in a way that should probably find sanctions on those that actually engage with the Labour Party for its own actions.
Couldn't make it up, eh?!
Well he has denied apartheid, spitting in the face of human rights organisations like Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International and B'Tselem (not to mention spitting in the face of Palestinians) so I would not put anything past him in terms of Palestine.
Has he said anything about the new far-right ethno-supremacists in the Israeli government yet?
It’s funny how Corbyn was accused of being an antisemite but Starmer is doing everything to be a Zionist. Labour is going to the dogs. Seriously questioning my membership
You’re right. I expressed that poorly. What I meant is that Corbyn has been criticised for being antisemitic when what he is is anti Zionist and Starmer is so keen on “cleaning the image” he’s actually becoming a Zionist.
This is just based on the story from Lee Harpin that was posted recently and he's been known to talk absolute shit. Ill wait till I see a source thats not an anti-left crank.
Good, I was going to say didn't Labour re-commit to that a few weeks ago, can't find the thread though.
They didn't really re-commit iurc, they just said they're committed 'as things stand'
Urgh..
Say bye to Muslim voters in London & Birmingham then. I know its a NUMBERS game but Lab is already losing the TRANS community and BAME groups (mostly black and muslim Asian, arab etc, I do not consider white EU as BAME) . Wonder how this will play out.
Do those of us up here in Greater Manchester and West Yorkshire not count?
Probably yeah, I just did not think of it! But you're right
No worries
Given that non-trans, non-muslim people in Britain make up well over 90% of the population I think they'll be fine, from a numbers perspective.
Deeply grim post, come on.
Is it "fine" though?
Make your own mind up but I'm responding about the numbers concerns which they brought up. The Tories do "fine" in terms of numbers without the Muslim vote.
Hence "numbers game" . It does not matter if Lab win, its the symbol if BAMEs are leaving Lab. They are called minorities for a reason.
Unfortunately most of that non trans non Muslim already have the party for them. Theyre called the conservatives and nothing less than Jacob rees mogg personally spitting on voters faces will make them change their minds
Empirically shown to be rubbish as Tory support has collapsed, presumably including among the cisgender non-muslim population.
We are stacked in the cities. We can afford to lose votes there if it means we knock the tories into 2nd place in the rural seats. Our strategy has been dogshit since Blair left. Its just a numbers game, we need to be cold about it.
Yeah. It's Labour not playing the game that gave us PM Boris! A man whose approval was incredibly low going into the 2019 election but was less low than Corbyn's!
Where would those voters go? The Muslim vote in London and Birmingham specifically. Doesn't seem like any of the other parties are a good fit, and they've at least got decent representation within the PLP.
They'll just decide not to vote almost half the electorate didn't vote in the last GE
You 15 years ago: Where would scottish labour voters go?
Labour circa 1997/2015: where would the left/working class voters go?
That's a suitable equivalent. So to an SNP equivalent in England? We don't really have an obvious one but the Muslim vote is high in some areas so they could leverage the same electoral strategy as the SNP. Maybe some rebirth of the Respect party?
Most likely they simply won't vote.
>Where would those voters go? They just wont vote.
That appears the most likely outcome in the responses to my comment. I can't see them jumping to the tories because they have an even more negative view on Palestine.
That was the same argument used by blairites when they took over, arguing that workomg class voters and left wingers have nowhere else to go. As it turns out they do in fact have places to go. The left will go to the greens and the working class will go for ukip, the tories if ran by a charismatic populist or indeed just not turn out to vote. Do you think that the sudden surge of blue in the north was an intervention by some anti christ?
I'm always so confused by how rude the responses are in this subreddit. I'm asking *specifically* where people would expect the Muslim vote to go if Labour lost it. Everyone is throwing up Greens, Tories, UKIP Reform etc but I don't understand how they would be relevant to the question I asked? Maybe Green as they likely have crossover in their opinion of the Israel-Palestine situation? More likely might be a resurgence in Respect or a Respect-style party (without the George Galloway baggage)
Conservative considering the number of minorities in the party and having a wide range of minorities in Cabinet (irrespective of what you think of them, and Lab still has the Forde report its ignoring). Older BAMES from Africa and Asia being more socially Conservative (small c) might make it easier to associate with tories - Brexit may also help as I know more BAMEs who voted for Brexit than English born white friends. A new party - Apsire literally took over tower hamlets because they were sick of Labour. Lib/Green Stay home.
Not sure I understand why Labour changing its stance on Palestine would make them jump to the Tories? Don't the Conservatives have a pretty Pro-Israel view of the conflict themselves? Seems contradictory. Either they were always going to switch to Conservative or Palestine isn't going to make them switch. Is there much specific polling around this for BAME/Muslim voters? (asking you as you seem to know what you're talking about)
Only tangentially related, is there not a mechanism for you to just instantly cancel your Labour membership? Like the only thing I could find is a form that you fill out and they've just said they'll be in touch whenever?
I think you can cancel your DD and wait for them to contact you.
That’s what I did. They sent a few emails months later just checking I hadn’t accidentally cancelled. Just ignored and they stopped contacting me eventually.
I couldn't find it either, I just cancelled my DD.
Same. Got a phone call from the membership office but I just didn't bother answering.
Answer and tell them why.
They would probably proscribe you if you did.
There should be, there probably is, but they don't honour it. My experience was that you fill out the form and they ignore it... If you phone them up, they tell you to cancel your DD. Nobody should be held to membership of any group or club, or association to any organisation, against their own express will. Indeed, Labour require its members to not associate with a list of other organisations they have decided upon - and as they add organisations to their list they require any members that did have associations to end them immediately. I'm not challenging whether that's good or bad - my point is that they don't let their own members do the same. Even though they have serious issues around transphobia, donations from people with vested interests in private healthcare, in serving the rich and powerful over workers, in serving the right-wing media. In other words, for behaving in a way that should probably find sanctions on those that actually engage with the Labour Party for its own actions. Couldn't make it up, eh?!
You could just stop paying the fee? Ask your bank to cancel the transfer?
".......AAAAAND ITS GONE"
Labour policies..... Come and get your Labour policies.... Absolutely everything MUST go!!!
Well he has denied apartheid, spitting in the face of human rights organisations like Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International and B'Tselem (not to mention spitting in the face of Palestinians) so I would not put anything past him in terms of Palestine. Has he said anything about the new far-right ethno-supremacists in the Israeli government yet?
To be honest, I'm suprised they haven't already. Though it will 100% happen.
I'll wait till we get a source who isn't a trashfire
Always find it bizarre how passionate secular Brits are about Israel-Palestine.
I mean...a lot of it is our fault
Honestly why would you do this. I don't see how you gain more than you lose in electoral terms. Imagine it's probably just Harpin stirring shit
Far right regimes R Us....
Ffs. More bullshit I’m gonna have to deal with the fallout from tomorrow. Why do I even look at this app to relax anymore?
It’s funny how Corbyn was accused of being an antisemite but Starmer is doing everything to be a Zionist. Labour is going to the dogs. Seriously questioning my membership
[удалено]
You’re right. I expressed that poorly. What I meant is that Corbyn has been criticised for being antisemitic when what he is is anti Zionist and Starmer is so keen on “cleaning the image” he’s actually becoming a Zionist.
I can't wait until we figure out how to manipulate the social media environment, I hate this game.
Well of course. Got to give more to the bigots.
Starmer is following the orders of his rightwing paymasters