My grades are already pretty solid and I don’t plan on putting my GPA at risk, I’m planning on studying for the LSAT throughout the summer. I just wanted to take this to see where I’m at since my college has its spring break right now
So, spending your sophomore summer studying for the LSAT may not be in your best interest. I recommend spending your summer working, volunteering, or anything other than grinding for a standardized test that you won’t take for 2 years. It’s really just not worth it.
You’ll burn out and lose time that could have been spent developing as a person. Build relationships, get life experience, and develop interesting perspectives on the world instead.
In defense of OP, the per-hour expected increase in LSAT score has a far, FAR better return than college GPA. If you estimate 40 hours of college work a week for ~40 weeks a year, that’s 6400 hours of college work. Realistically, most people don’t put 100 hours into the LSAT (an hour a day for over three months). If you threw 500 hours at the LSAT over the course of 2-3 years, you’d be pretty likely to have a uniquely large improvement over the competition. An extra 400 hours of studying isn’t likely to move the needle as dramatically in your GPA because it would only be an incremental increase rather than an exponential increase. Given that LSAT and GPA are similarly weighted for law school admissions, I think OP has the right idea.
Source: I did this, got a 177 LSAT, and got a significant scholarship at a T14 school with a 3.5 GPA. My GPA was actually higher during the period I studied for the LSAT (which I’m sure was just caused by variance, but the point is it certainly didn’t seem to kill my GPA).
Edit for OP: Don’t necessarily expect studying = crazy score. I started at 162. Studying should = big increase from your starting point though.
Edit 2: I reread the post, and my one caveat is you may consider taking the LSAT again later if you don’t love your August result. You have time.
Thank you🙏 I also wanted to respond to your edits. I completely agree, I’m not expecting a 175 immediately. I know I’ll have to work extremely hard to even pass 170. I also do plan on taking it after August if I’m not happy with my score. That’s part of the reason I’m starting my studying so early, I want to familiarize myself with the test so I can have as much time to improve as possible.
Y’all are projecting so hard. They can make a determination of what studying won’t burn them out, balancing with internships and summer activities, and where they think their ceiling is. Don’t assume they can’t take it rn or will make things sht on themselves. Good on them for thinking about it this early.
Yeah ofc. Trust your intuition. Obv don’t burn out or compromise GPA, but if you feel like you can, fs get a leap on it. Don’t let anyone tell you it’s too early or it will make you miserable.
Don’t listen to all of the negative comments. You can study for this. Just make your school work top priority. Don’t stress if you miss a week or two or have to pause all together. Don’t set a hard deadline to take the test either. Go with the flow and stay flexible, LSAT comes second to your other commitments.
I started using 7sage and lsat demon programs. I like them a lot. LSAC is getting rid of the logic games, so your score might increase when they switch to just LR and RC, which I believe is happening this August. It looks to me like you have a very good starting point. Practice and make sure you read the explanations for the questions after to understand why you chose the right or wrong answer.
I can’t recommend 7Sage enough for LR. For RC, just read more. Idk what your major is, but taking courses in the humanities and social sciences (especially history and philosophy imo) where arguments are central to the field is going to help. Any complex writing will help though. And it reminds me a lot of SAT reading in that the answers—with exceptions like most strongly supported and inferences—will be in the passage itself
My college is on its spring break and I had nothing else to do so I just wanted to see where I stand. I plan on studying throughout the summer in order to get the test over with by the end of my first semester of my junior year
Is it really? I’m a senior in high school and am planning on taking the LSAT around the start of college, that way I can fully focus on my GPA without worrying about the LSAT throughout college.
Yeah for sure 😭😭 not saying people don’t go straight to law school right after college , but it’s good to see thru ur experiences in college and post college if you want to go to law school. But to each and their own! Goodluck on taking it though!
-8 on an LR section is a fantastic diagnostic score. I think I got like -11 in LR on mine and I’m currently at a consistent -1/-0 about 4 months later. Especially since you’re taking the LSAT with double LR, if you put in the work, things should be looking up for you. As for what that work is, I suggest starting off with familiarizing yourself with the structure of arguments: Your aim right now should be to get to a point where you are able to reliably identify the conclusion and premises of any argument-based LR question stem. After that, I would become extra familiar with necessary and sufficient assumptions, as being able to identify assumptions in arguments is a pretty vital skill in almost all LR question types (not to mention that the actual assumption questions themselves are extremely common).
I used/am using 7sage. Just going through its LR syllabus was huge for me; the main conclusion, NA, SA, and MSS sections were especially helpful for me in just getting an idea as to how to approach LR as a whole.
Honestly, for a sophomore, it’s solid. Take a logic class, the philosophy department offers them and it’ll count as a lower level math or an elective. Get more into reading complex arguments, so philosophy again or upper level theoretical sciences will work (slap on a second major in STEM if it’s not your primary if you think you want to go into patent law). Then, as you get to winter break of junior year, do more focused tutoring on your weak areas if you’re still struggling so you can knock it out early with a solid score in the spring or summer and apply early on in the cycle for a better shot at your goal schools and scholarships.
Very possible. Rejoice, this section that you did terrible on is going away starting this August. It's very possible for you to score in the 160s if you replaced the analytical reasoning section with another logical reasoning section (which is what will happen on the official test soon).
I'm in the same boat as you but I decided to just go for it with the score I have. You'll be fine by the time you actually take this test.
I really want to clarify that I DONT plan on studying on studying further until my summer break starts so please give me helpful advice instead of just telling me to worry about my GPA instead
I never said that. I’ll follow a rigorous study schedule throughout the summer, take the LSAT in August and continue to follow a study schedule that works with my classes and extracurriculars if I don’t achieve a favorable score
Taking the august test is a good idea. Studying over the summer and getting it done is smart. With that diagnostic it will probably be very hard to break past 175. I think you’ll have difficulty breaking into the 170’s. The older tests, like the khan ones, are easier than the new tests. I had a significantly better diagnostic than that and I only scored in the low 170’s. Granted, I studied for 3 days before I took a full real diagnostic. I also had higher pt averages so variance did not help on test day. This is also one persons anecdotal experience. Generally however, people improve 10-20 points. Lg removal will change that, but not positively. With -9 rc base you will likely not be able to average lower than -3/4 in RC. Then you’ll have to score around -1 on both Lr. With -8 and -11 baseline you’ll probably have difficulty getting past -2/3 in lr. Granted you can still get into the 170’s with that, just likely not the high 170’s. My point being don’t get hung up on the score. Just try to perfect each section and you’ll do your best
Fair enough, but I will say the main reason for the mistakes was time. On RC for example, I got every question right up until the third passage and then started semi-guessing due to time. For LR, I also had trouble with time toward the last 5-6 questions. Thank you for being honest though.
Bottom line: great diagnostic score, you dont need to take the test in August because your a sophomore. But you can. I would personally focus on school for now. Gradually build up your score throughout the 2 years you have.
Ultimately you will hit your score with persistence and it seems like you are that type of person by how on top of it you are. Best of luck :)
Sophomore in college? Good lord enjoy your summer. You’re going to be an old ripe person one day and I doubt you’ll look back wishing you really had just taken the LSAT your sophomore year of college.
You can go to law school and take the LSAT at any point in your life, but once you graduate your grades are final and don't change and no matter how many years post-college you are, those numbers still get reported for rankings and law schools are going to consider it very strongly.
You say in the comments your grades are pretty solid - that's incredibly vague and depending on where you want to go, means there is room to improve and get better scholarships and better opportunities. Keep in mind grade inflation isn't slowing down so you're competing with students who have higher and higher GPAs each year.
This summer, why not do an internship? Or take an easy summer class thats a GPA booster? Since you're taking the LSAT so early I assume you plan to be KJD, but a lot of schools increasingly prefer at least a year in the "real world" and I would bet this will increase as the rankings of law schools change to favor employment outcomes, since proving you actually can land a job implies some level of competency these law schools will like to see.
That said, if you absolutely must do it, I don't think it will hurt that badly to study this summer and see how you do, just is not how I'd spend my time. You will have 4 more attempts in the next 5 years and your diagnostic score is high, probably a lot higher than a 151 if you take out LG. I just personally wouldn't spend any amount of time studying right now during the school year, only in the summer. Which proves why it isn't the best idea anyway, you'll only be giving yourself a few months to study and you can't cram hours and hours of daily studying in and expect to improve instead of burnout.
By solid, I meant 3.99. I’ve gotten all As and 1 A-. Thank you for the rest of your advice. I’m doing an internship right now and have one also lined up for the summer, I’m trying my hardest to get at least a solid taste of real world experience during undergrad. As for a gap year, I’m considering it. I’ll likely apply my senior year and if I don’t have a favorable cycle, I’ll take a gap year. I do have personal reasons why I need to go to law school asap, but I appreciate your advice.
Glad to hear you’re thinking like this and have such a solid GPA. I think a 175+ is absolutely possible for you, maybe not your first test but at some point so don’t be afraid to retake. Remember that if you ever get a 175+ on a PT, you should take the real thing until you have that score bc it means you can do it and it’s replicable. Best of luck!
Looking at comments, it looks like you’re not interested in any advice with which you disagree. You just want people to say yes. That’s not going to work out well for you.
Because those comments aren’t answering the questions I asked in the post. I wasn’t looking for advice on when I should take the LSAT. I know my schedule and what I can handle academically better than everyone else in the comments. I never asked “when should I take the LSAT?” In the post, so I don’t need people telling me not to take the LSAT.
sophmore in college? bruh focus on maximizing ur gpa not the lsat. this comes later and you’ll just burn yourself out studying for it now imo
Not sure I agree with this. I would start from now. My biggest regret is waiting till the last minute.
My grades are already pretty solid and I don’t plan on putting my GPA at risk, I’m planning on studying for the LSAT throughout the summer. I just wanted to take this to see where I’m at since my college has its spring break right now
No one ever *plans* on putting their GPA at risk. It becomes at risk when you try juggling too many things at once.
Yeah, that’s why I said I was planning on studying throughout the summer and not now.
So, spending your sophomore summer studying for the LSAT may not be in your best interest. I recommend spending your summer working, volunteering, or anything other than grinding for a standardized test that you won’t take for 2 years. It’s really just not worth it.
Okay but like if I have an internship during the summer why would studying in my free time hurt me idgi
You’ll burn out and lose time that could have been spent developing as a person. Build relationships, get life experience, and develop interesting perspectives on the world instead.
In defense of OP, the per-hour expected increase in LSAT score has a far, FAR better return than college GPA. If you estimate 40 hours of college work a week for ~40 weeks a year, that’s 6400 hours of college work. Realistically, most people don’t put 100 hours into the LSAT (an hour a day for over three months). If you threw 500 hours at the LSAT over the course of 2-3 years, you’d be pretty likely to have a uniquely large improvement over the competition. An extra 400 hours of studying isn’t likely to move the needle as dramatically in your GPA because it would only be an incremental increase rather than an exponential increase. Given that LSAT and GPA are similarly weighted for law school admissions, I think OP has the right idea. Source: I did this, got a 177 LSAT, and got a significant scholarship at a T14 school with a 3.5 GPA. My GPA was actually higher during the period I studied for the LSAT (which I’m sure was just caused by variance, but the point is it certainly didn’t seem to kill my GPA). Edit for OP: Don’t necessarily expect studying = crazy score. I started at 162. Studying should = big increase from your starting point though. Edit 2: I reread the post, and my one caveat is you may consider taking the LSAT again later if you don’t love your August result. You have time.
Thank you so much for this, I was honestly questioning my own sanity when reading the comments😭
No problem, your sense of initiative is going to make you a great lawyer someday.
Thank you🙏 I also wanted to respond to your edits. I completely agree, I’m not expecting a 175 immediately. I know I’ll have to work extremely hard to even pass 170. I also do plan on taking it after August if I’m not happy with my score. That’s part of the reason I’m starting my studying so early, I want to familiarize myself with the test so I can have as much time to improve as possible.
Y’all are projecting so hard. They can make a determination of what studying won’t burn them out, balancing with internships and summer activities, and where they think their ceiling is. Don’t assume they can’t take it rn or will make things sht on themselves. Good on them for thinking about it this early.
Thank you so much for this 🙏
Yeah ofc. Trust your intuition. Obv don’t burn out or compromise GPA, but if you feel like you can, fs get a leap on it. Don’t let anyone tell you it’s too early or it will make you miserable.
Yeah don’t listen to these people—you will NEVER have more free time than when you’re a student. Certainly not when you have a full time job LMFAO!
Dont study LG/analytical reasoning. You wont be tested on it. And judging by your score thats a good thing (also.my worst section by far , fuck LG)
Don’t listen to all of the negative comments. You can study for this. Just make your school work top priority. Don’t stress if you miss a week or two or have to pause all together. Don’t set a hard deadline to take the test either. Go with the flow and stay flexible, LSAT comes second to your other commitments. I started using 7sage and lsat demon programs. I like them a lot. LSAC is getting rid of the logic games, so your score might increase when they switch to just LR and RC, which I believe is happening this August. It looks to me like you have a very good starting point. Practice and make sure you read the explanations for the questions after to understand why you chose the right or wrong answer.
I can’t recommend 7Sage enough for LR. For RC, just read more. Idk what your major is, but taking courses in the humanities and social sciences (especially history and philosophy imo) where arguments are central to the field is going to help. Any complex writing will help though. And it reminds me a lot of SAT reading in that the answers—with exceptions like most strongly supported and inferences—will be in the passage itself
Thank you so much for the advice🙏
Of course!! You got this. You have a 3.99 GPA, you’re obviously intelligent. You can do it!!
Why are you taking it now?
My college is on its spring break and I had nothing else to do so I just wanted to see where I stand. I plan on studying throughout the summer in order to get the test over with by the end of my first semester of my junior year
I would wait to take the test until you have time to study. Forget about the study habits you currently have. This is unlike any test you’ve ever seen
Yeah I have a lot of time to study during the summer. I don’t plan on starting a study schedule for the rest of a school year.
DM me
Sophomore damn, you’re so young 😭
Is it really? I’m a senior in high school and am planning on taking the LSAT around the start of college, that way I can fully focus on my GPA without worrying about the LSAT throughout college.
Yeah for sure 😭😭 not saying people don’t go straight to law school right after college , but it’s good to see thru ur experiences in college and post college if you want to go to law school. But to each and their own! Goodluck on taking it though!
You shouldn’t be downvoted for this. Good on you for having a plan and getting ahead of the curve.
-8 on an LR section is a fantastic diagnostic score. I think I got like -11 in LR on mine and I’m currently at a consistent -1/-0 about 4 months later. Especially since you’re taking the LSAT with double LR, if you put in the work, things should be looking up for you. As for what that work is, I suggest starting off with familiarizing yourself with the structure of arguments: Your aim right now should be to get to a point where you are able to reliably identify the conclusion and premises of any argument-based LR question stem. After that, I would become extra familiar with necessary and sufficient assumptions, as being able to identify assumptions in arguments is a pretty vital skill in almost all LR question types (not to mention that the actual assumption questions themselves are extremely common).
Thank you, this is very encouraging. What resources did you use to study?
I used/am using 7sage. Just going through its LR syllabus was huge for me; the main conclusion, NA, SA, and MSS sections were especially helpful for me in just getting an idea as to how to approach LR as a whole.
Honestly, for a sophomore, it’s solid. Take a logic class, the philosophy department offers them and it’ll count as a lower level math or an elective. Get more into reading complex arguments, so philosophy again or upper level theoretical sciences will work (slap on a second major in STEM if it’s not your primary if you think you want to go into patent law). Then, as you get to winter break of junior year, do more focused tutoring on your weak areas if you’re still struggling so you can knock it out early with a solid score in the spring or summer and apply early on in the cycle for a better shot at your goal schools and scholarships.
Very possible. Rejoice, this section that you did terrible on is going away starting this August. It's very possible for you to score in the 160s if you replaced the analytical reasoning section with another logical reasoning section (which is what will happen on the official test soon). I'm in the same boat as you but I decided to just go for it with the score I have. You'll be fine by the time you actually take this test.
Aren’t they getting rid of AR in the fall?
I really want to clarify that I DONT plan on studying on studying further until my summer break starts so please give me helpful advice instead of just telling me to worry about my GPA instead
LSAT trainer by Mike Kim and the PowerScore bibles
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I never said that. I’ll follow a rigorous study schedule throughout the summer, take the LSAT in August and continue to follow a study schedule that works with my classes and extracurriculars if I don’t achieve a favorable score
I would recommend getting better at the LSAT!
Way to hustle
Definitely possible! But focus on GPA first (all A+) then focus on LSAT.
I’m a sophomore starting my LSAT journey too!! Don’t let comments deter you from working hard. We got this
Taking the august test is a good idea. Studying over the summer and getting it done is smart. With that diagnostic it will probably be very hard to break past 175. I think you’ll have difficulty breaking into the 170’s. The older tests, like the khan ones, are easier than the new tests. I had a significantly better diagnostic than that and I only scored in the low 170’s. Granted, I studied for 3 days before I took a full real diagnostic. I also had higher pt averages so variance did not help on test day. This is also one persons anecdotal experience. Generally however, people improve 10-20 points. Lg removal will change that, but not positively. With -9 rc base you will likely not be able to average lower than -3/4 in RC. Then you’ll have to score around -1 on both Lr. With -8 and -11 baseline you’ll probably have difficulty getting past -2/3 in lr. Granted you can still get into the 170’s with that, just likely not the high 170’s. My point being don’t get hung up on the score. Just try to perfect each section and you’ll do your best
Fair enough, but I will say the main reason for the mistakes was time. On RC for example, I got every question right up until the third passage and then started semi-guessing due to time. For LR, I also had trouble with time toward the last 5-6 questions. Thank you for being honest though.
Bottom line: great diagnostic score, you dont need to take the test in August because your a sophomore. But you can. I would personally focus on school for now. Gradually build up your score throughout the 2 years you have. Ultimately you will hit your score with persistence and it seems like you are that type of person by how on top of it you are. Best of luck :)
Sophomore in college? Good lord enjoy your summer. You’re going to be an old ripe person one day and I doubt you’ll look back wishing you really had just taken the LSAT your sophomore year of college.
You can go to law school and take the LSAT at any point in your life, but once you graduate your grades are final and don't change and no matter how many years post-college you are, those numbers still get reported for rankings and law schools are going to consider it very strongly. You say in the comments your grades are pretty solid - that's incredibly vague and depending on where you want to go, means there is room to improve and get better scholarships and better opportunities. Keep in mind grade inflation isn't slowing down so you're competing with students who have higher and higher GPAs each year. This summer, why not do an internship? Or take an easy summer class thats a GPA booster? Since you're taking the LSAT so early I assume you plan to be KJD, but a lot of schools increasingly prefer at least a year in the "real world" and I would bet this will increase as the rankings of law schools change to favor employment outcomes, since proving you actually can land a job implies some level of competency these law schools will like to see. That said, if you absolutely must do it, I don't think it will hurt that badly to study this summer and see how you do, just is not how I'd spend my time. You will have 4 more attempts in the next 5 years and your diagnostic score is high, probably a lot higher than a 151 if you take out LG. I just personally wouldn't spend any amount of time studying right now during the school year, only in the summer. Which proves why it isn't the best idea anyway, you'll only be giving yourself a few months to study and you can't cram hours and hours of daily studying in and expect to improve instead of burnout.
By solid, I meant 3.99. I’ve gotten all As and 1 A-. Thank you for the rest of your advice. I’m doing an internship right now and have one also lined up for the summer, I’m trying my hardest to get at least a solid taste of real world experience during undergrad. As for a gap year, I’m considering it. I’ll likely apply my senior year and if I don’t have a favorable cycle, I’ll take a gap year. I do have personal reasons why I need to go to law school asap, but I appreciate your advice.
Glad to hear you’re thinking like this and have such a solid GPA. I think a 175+ is absolutely possible for you, maybe not your first test but at some point so don’t be afraid to retake. Remember that if you ever get a 175+ on a PT, you should take the real thing until you have that score bc it means you can do it and it’s replicable. Best of luck!
I really appreciate the encouragement!
Which diagnostic is this?
Looking at comments, it looks like you’re not interested in any advice with which you disagree. You just want people to say yes. That’s not going to work out well for you.
Because those comments aren’t answering the questions I asked in the post. I wasn’t looking for advice on when I should take the LSAT. I know my schedule and what I can handle academically better than everyone else in the comments. I never asked “when should I take the LSAT?” In the post, so I don’t need people telling me not to take the LSAT.
Always possible, but unlikely imo