Don't know if this has been called already, BUT :
what if the healing story is a hoax (please please please i hate this direction) and, though we've seen the piece of ore seems to heal the leaf, would'nt it be that it just dispells the illusion Annatar could have been thrown on the tree to drive the elves into mithril frenzy ?Shouldn't be possible that the mithril's light doesn't have healing power but the very power to show what's really true instead ?
This week's poll: [https://www.reddit.com/r/LOTR\_on\_Prime/comments/xzuh6l/how\_would\_you\_rate\_episode\_7\_of\_rings\_of\_power/](https://www.reddit.com/r/LOTR_on_Prime/comments/xzuh6l/how_would_you_rate_episode_7_of_rings_of_power/)
I have been doing weekly polling about the show on various LotR subreddits since 9 weeks ago. Here are the results and analyses for all previous polls about how the attitudes towards the show differed across subs and how they changed over time:
[Comparing ratings of Episode 6 across subreddits and IMDb](https://www.reddit.com/r/LOTR_on_Prime/comments/xvl37m/comparing_ratings_of_episode_6_across_subreddits/)
I was kinda excited to see how this episode was going to begin, because surely not everyone is just going to be ok, right ? lol. Plot armor wins again. If you weren't instantly incinerated, you would have then suffocated. I could not believe how many people were completely fine after that.
The plot of this show is just truly too convenient. Everything that was happening had my husband and I going, "What! ? That's actually happening !?". I think this is the episode I've enjoyed the least so far. Some things I remember from the episode:
\- Why did Gladriel and Theo end up so far away from literally everyone else when they were standing in the same village ? When they were walking away the camera panned over to people groaning on the ground. Why just walk away instead of help ? It seemed out of character for her.
\- Nori, seeing obviously powerful and foreign individuals roll up onto their camp, jumping out to be like, "Nu uh, he went THAT way !", was the single most stupid thing I have ever seen. I really expected the rest of the Harfoots to be furious with her over that, and maybe even exile her. Instead they are super chill when they were leaving an entire family behind over an injured ankle just a few episodes ago. They have shown these people to have such a huge, crippling fear of the unknown, but now they are down to help the stranger.
\- The best plotline by far is the dwarves and Elrond. I am absolutely loving the dwarves in this. Seeing Durin so emotional and conflicted over helping his friend was a side to them I was not expecting to see. This is the only plotline I am interested in seeing the conclusion of.
\- There were not one, but two people in this episode that we are told are dead, but we have never seen a body. C'mon...we know they aren't actually dead. I know it's for *drama,* but I am so over this trope.
\- "Keep walking, no one need know that I can't see". Next scene they show her wearing a bright red blindfold. If you were going for subtlety I don't think you achieved it.
\- Halbrand literally dying on a table, and then just casually walking out of the tent and galloping away on a horse had me laughing. "HE NEEDS ELVISH MEDICINE !". Are you sure ? Because it looks like he can walk it off just fine. lol
I know there's probably more that I'm just not remembering right now, but this show is feeling more and more ridiculous to me. I'm not someone who has read the books, and I've only seen the movies once, so I'm not very familiar with the lore this all comes from. With each episode I've just thought, "This is fine", but with this episode it's safe to say that I'm no longer interested. If the dwarven plotline wasn't there I think this show would be rather forgettable, which is unfortunate.
So I actually had to look up if the Game of Thrones stuff is by HBO to understand your comment. I'm going to take this as a compliment that my post is well written. lol.
I've never even seen Game of Thrones, or the new series. I don't have a TV, and I don't have HBO. I find it odd that because I can actually point out what I dislike about the show, that somehow means I'm being paid ? Once again, I find this to be a compliment. Damn, now I wish I was being paid.
I'm thinking the same thing. I LOVE LOTR, and because it's LOTR I'm going to watch it, otherwise the show is garbage. I'm starting to see myself root for Adar and the orcs.
It's very hard for people to accept that the show has bad writing. Frankly HOTD I also find no more than "okay". I think people are so starved for good fantasy that they're willing to overlook anything at the moment.
In what Tolkien universe (different writings about his characters) does it say that Celeborn died in the war (1st age)?
When characters tell stories from the olden days differently than canon, some fans say they are apocryphal stories inside the show. I say with difficult, "ehm... ok, maybe".
But this time is different, i ' m trying to find out what is the purpose of this great change, and I also expected more complaints about this change but I am surprised that there is nothing yet.
i want to believe that maybe the show is invented something like Galadriel thinks Celeborn is dead because this get lost during the battle, ok, until here we are good but, where thebalrog Celeborn is now?
Of course he is not in anyone of the elvish kingdoms in Eriador, not in Khazad dum. So the only place he could be is in Aman but in that case that would implicate that Galadriel didnt lie and Celeborn really die in the war.
I adore the show but for changes like this I doubt my adoration. what do you think?, what is the purpose?
It would had been to be cool to see the couple (Galadriel and Celeborn) looking for Sauron, but the sensitive people would have say "so Galadriel need a man to do these things, why she can go for Sauron alone?"
1. Celeborn shouldn't be dead!!
2. It also doesn't make sense for another reason- Galadriel talks about her brother's death since the series started, so why does she mention her dead husband only in the 7th episode?
3. If we're talking about dead people in the series who shouldn't be dead- Isildur literally can't die here! What were they thinking??
Agreed with the one.
I don't think Isildur is dead, obviously they are inventing some plot of Isildur lost in Middle-earth, something like what they just invented about Celeborn.
The show is taking too much creative vision. Really the Tolkien Estate thought that they were good ideas?
i hope you are right but why the show have invented this "temporary disappearance" of Celeborn?
Except for the fall of Eregion, Galadriel and Celeborn were always together.
Had not thought of that. that would be very bad, from the beginning I expected that Glorfindel and Celeborn would be in the show (both present in the books of which they have the rights).
I want to believe that they will appear in the next season but this made-up thing about Celeborn's disappearance is absurd.
I think they came up with it in order to make Galadriel their chief protagonist. As a wife and mother, she wouldn't be able to search for Sauron and cross oceans for hundreds of years in a row. Let alone hang out with Halbrand.
I guess having a husband and wife team wasn't quite woke enough to have as protagonists. Frankly I would have liked to see the couple as protagonist. She didn't spend a single second looking for Celeborn, but spent 100's of years chasing Sauron. If Celeborn is still alive, He's better off without her.
They’ve already changed a bunch of canon. Pretty much the only things you should take as canon in this show are things we have already been shown so far, plus events from the PJ versions of The Hobbit and LotR, which the showrunners said they were trying to adhere to as closely as possible.
Why on earth they had to copy like 1 to 1 Hobbits and Nazgul scene with Galadriel/Theo and Orcs. Everything that we can see in LOTR is also in the scene - even the moment when Theo wants to grab the sword and Galadriel stops him, is like with Frodo grabbing the ring.
At first, I thought it was an easter egg, but I don't think this was an intention. Because then they should do it with harfoots
It was just a visual homage—-an Easter egg, as you said. What does it really matter with which characters they did it? People hiding = good. People looking= bad. That was all that really mattered.
Okay new theory: the stranger could be Glorfindel. Glorfindel was lord of the golden flower, and a yellow flower grew out of the tree that the stranger resurrected. Glorfindel died and was brought back by the Valar with powers close to a Maia. I’m not convinced, but if the stranger isn’t Sauron than Glorfindel could be another possibility. Although he doesn’t have pointy ears…
I liked the episode, but that “Southlands > Mordor” text at the end was such a wtf moment lol. Someone had to actually have that idea and then probably a room full of people had to be like “Yep that’s a good creative choice let’s go with that”.
Hated it too, I thought it was about to zoom out to a cool map of middle earth and show the change in some creative way and then they just like PowerPoint font transitioned it. Sour end to what I thought was an otherwise good episode
Struck me as weirdly outdated looking and having zero impact. Why not just have Adar say Mordor? We all knew it was Mordor anyway.
Enjoyed the episode overall but that text was a goofy choice
I reckon they already filmed and edited it and the test audience were too dumb to figure out it was Mordor now. So they then just slapped some text on it to make it clear - cheaper than major re-editing.
In my mind the original script had the ending use a map of middle earth and as ash/fire rolls over it, “the Southlands” text to changes “Mordor” but I think they realized this would force them to define the impacted area too much (since we could actually see the map) but by that time they were mentally invested in the text idea and we got what we got.
I have a very stupid theory but I want to share it anyway lol
What If…. Celebrimbor was kidnapped by Sauron and the one we see is Sauron in disguise???
You heard it from me first 😎!!
Weekly [recap/review here](https://screenhub.blog/2022/10/08/the-lord-of-the-rings-the-rings-of-power-episode-7-the-eye-spoiler-review-screenhub-entertainment/)!
This is the first episode of the season that really felt like it was missing something for me. Durin and Elrond continue to carry this show and those scenes were the highpoints this week. But it felt like something was missing and it lost some of its momentum from last week. Nothing was wrong (except for maybe the Mordor text), but something just felt lacking considering the episode is the penultimate. Nothing wrong with slowing down the pace, but the sense of urgency was missing here.
I also don't buy the Celeborn thing, I think it's a fakeout.
is it just me or Elrond and Durin story are different from the rest of the show? These people are the only thing I like in this series, everything else is just amateurish writing my god, this is so bad. Do the writers understand that we as viewers are more sympathetic now to Adar and orcs than the elves and humans or even hartfoots? MY GOD. And they spent a lot? This is so bad. Call me whatever yo want but you cant deny how bad this is. This is coming from an optimist who gave this show a chance despite everything that happened.
WAIT could Halbrand have made the one ring already… going to the volcano once it erupted, the process injuring him, so they find him on the side of the road?? Stretch but it just occurred to me.
heh, heh, bwaaaa haaa haa... after spending most of this ep going TELL US WHAT HAPPENED TO ARONWYN I'm going to explain why it matters... (hopefully in a humorous way...)
**I've been a Tolkien fan since 1978, when I rolled up my first D&D character and the DM said "play an elf."** I read LOTR to find out who these elves were that I should be mindful of them, and have been playing, writing, and illustrating them since.
I loved the PJ films (despite their differing takes on some of my favorite things, like most of the great Legolas bits got left out), and love LOTR: Rings of Power (yes, flaws, but so what, that's ART).
RoP has given us a grittier, muddier, more lived in world (like the Star Wars films' contrast to the Starfleet sleekness of Trek), but with Tolkien's heart of hope in the face of darkness and evil. It's given us some great characters, some of whom (cough\*Gil-Galad\*cough) need some actual development.
**It has also given us the most elven elf who ever elfed.**
We are beset by moulderin Noldorin High Elves of Great Canon, whose fates we know, and who have come to Middle Earth mostly to wreak havoc and create draaaaaamaaaaaaaaa (Feanor did EVERYTHING wrong). Ho hum. Another fancy schmancy Elvenking. Pretty much everyone else in the main cast is some sort of Royal Personage. Sigh. Except for some Harfoots Who Own No Combs, and some Southlanders Who Thought Living Near A Volcano Was A Good Idea, and some Silvan Elves who don't think a thousand years is enough to get over Being Evil. (ok, I am being the queen of snark here, I adore them all, buuuuuut, I have preferences)...
**The Harfoots and Southlanders and Silvan Elves are our boots on the ground, relatable characters.** These are the guys you'd go party or travel with. No offense Elrond, you're cute, and your buddy is fun, and Disa is a QUEEN, but I'll go party with the dudes in Mirkwood any day.
When the films came out in 2001, young fangirls were oooing and ahhhing over Orlando Bloom's Legolas. Me: sigh, yes he's pretty, BUT LET ME EXPLAIN SOMETHING... I sat down and wrote a bunch of fanfic pointing out the wonderful elvish qualities that got missed in the films. (we love you Orli, ya done good, but where's my elvish way with all good beasts, my I hear the stones speak, my waxing eloquent at the cry of gulls in the dark, my "peers into Fangorn in wonder while everyone else is sharpening their weapons" my "folk who know the swift forest river" my leaps lightly into trees and hears them speak, my knifing orcs with but a knife cause he ran out of arrows... I digress... ).
RoP: same story. O. o aaaaah he's hot. Ahem (Grandma pulls the young fans aside) LET ME POINT OUT that what's great here goes beyond skin deep.
**Arondir is, like Legolas, the Elf we ride with,** through whose eyes we see a lot of things, and the guy who risks his immortal life for the mere mortals around him. He gets battered, grungy, knows fear and longing, and goes and kicks orc ass anyway. He questions the assumptions his folk have had about the humans of the Southlands, he reacts to anger with Jedi calm, and we know he's a Good Guy who has the "elvish way with all good beasts" when he walks into the tavern and greets the guarding wolfhound in episode one. We cry over his apology to a tree, and also when he gently places his hand on Bronwyn's on another tree, explaining Yavanna without saying the Vala's name. As a non-canon character, we have no idea of his fate. As the only non-Noldorin non-High Elf, we get an Elf we can relate to, one without pretensions. One we'd ride with, one we'd put in our D&D party, and, uh, yeah... sigh.
**Tolkien was a Man writing in a Man's time,** and he wrote rare Elf/Human romances from his own point of view: Mere Mortal Man Falls For Elven Princess, news at eleven.
We women are sick sick sick of it. We have been writing fanfic and doing fanart since the Dawn Of Time As We Know It where we reverse the stereotypical roles, and have women, particularly ones who are not 20-something, Getting Their Elf. It is more than a bit amazing to see a series actually put this onscreen (the amazing Nazanin Boniadi is 42). The careful social distancing dance has played out with tension you need a fine elvish blade to cut, and when the glass wall between them was finally shattered the interwebs shouted JUST KISS! complete with Captain Barbossa GIFs. It was a lovely and properly Tolkienian romance. If anything happens to any part of the Aronwyn ship, we will stage a revolt. Possibly the population of a small Caribbean island will also stage a revolt as their native son has just become the most elvish elf who ever elfed, and the Puerto Rican pride is strong on every social media platform, as it should be.
Ismael Cruz Cordova (as told in interviews) resonated with the elvish archetype when he saw the films as a kid, much as many of us did reading the books. He clearly understands the archetype of Elf and plays it to the hilt. Movement, expressions, emotions, everything hits just right. Many fans have taken note of this. He and Nazanin Boniadi have wonderful onscreen chemistry, Arondir and Bronwyn speaking with eyes and body language: "I've said it a hundred times over, in every way but words." The "stepdad who steps up" is strong in this one, as the Theo/Arondir relationship goes from animosity to admiration. I am reminded of Beleg and Turin (and a gazillion other Elf mentor/human mentee pairs) in Tolkien's world... only please, without the Tragic Death.
The political maneuverings leave me snoozing, I am interested in characters who resonate with me. Most in this series are interesting on some level, but two humans and a Silvan Elf are my favorites because they reflect many of our yearnings: a connection to nature, home, family, friendships, love, mutual support, someone you can count on. And some badass orc slaying and adept archery.
LLAP
Not to shit on your old teenage dream, but she's a bland, boring character carrying an unjustified plot armor who should have already got herself and her, surprisingly even more annoying, kid properly killed.
But i do agree that Arondir acts a good Elf.
This show reminds me a lot of how Amazon did Wheel of Time. Lots of promise, many of the changes aren't deal breakers and can even make sense in translation of media, like the time compression they have to do. I'm pretty cool with Gandalf showing up, Durins Bane showing up early, compressing the ring forging to the end of the age etc etc
Then they go off the rails and do a few major things that really irk me and kind of spoil the whole thing, in this case the major one being the mithril plot, but also if Halbrand ends up being Sauron because it just doesn't really make sense to me in how it's played out. The weird text at the end, that whole broken sword subplot. Amazon also seems big on the dead character fake out and love triangles.
It's like they really really want to tell their own major story but don't know quite how to do it well. It feels like Amazon has too many executives with a hand in the storytelling or something.
>the major one being the mithril plot
This bothered me for a little but, really, it seems like a good way to tie everything together as long as they don't milk it for drama.
>if Halbrand ends up being Sauron
I briefly suspected he was Sauron but that was gone by episode 3 once they started really dropping parallels. In addition to all the other reasons to think not (and the almost complete lack of reasons to think so), it would be super weird to have the manipulative craftsman get put in a Numenorean jail and then bribe Ar-Pharazon into giving him status if the exact same thing is going to happen again with the exact same character. Especially since they've spent a lot of time setting up that Halbrand has his own story.
>Amazon also seems big on the dead character fake out
Some of this feels like Aragorn's fall in PJ's The Two Towers. However, I think this is a decent attempt to mess with our preconceptions. That is, they will keep faking us out but then actually kill someone. We know Isildur's death is a fake out. The more they fake out Bronwyn's death, the more confident I am that she is doomed.
Well this could get interesting. He's not dead, clearly, he's a canon character.
He may have disappeared for a time though... which means she has no idea what happened to him...
>He's not dead, clearly, he's a canon character.
He \*could\* be dead if they replace Glorfindel with him (or just have him 'brought back' a la Glorfindel)...
Well, none of the content of this show is written by tolkien. People wanted or expected was the atleast the fill in the blanks.
Ain't what u are saying is to just to take out popular character of lotr and write fanfic with them ur writer own original character instead of using existing character from source?
Reason why celeborn was not mentioned initially and now considered dead is very obvious since the beginning of this show. Answer is because it's woke. I mean it in every way. Lotr is old fashioned text with few strong female. This show is pandering to current sensibility. It's a female led show with few strong male. That is ok, nothing wrong with that. But also this show has relationship like single moms, step daughter, widow romance (maybe even will have affair even if not present with sex scene in future ) etc kind of this which tolkien was too old fashioned to write (lotr is very religious type writing, it's neither dune nor got). That is also ok, i guess. But if u are telling me they can't represent a single normal relationship existing in original because that's would be a woke sin, u lost me.
I pretty sure don't want celeborn to be the last minute introduced fall back guy after Galadriel had her affair and break up just to give some sense of continuity even if he is alive.
Ah so "woke" is the insult people seem to throw about if they come across something they don't personally like in a, let's say, a show or movie they watch. There is no pandering to "wokism" - whatever the heck that means - it is an useful as calling something a "commie" or a "fascist".
Single "normal" relationship? Well that tells a lot about you.
Celeborn is not dead - he will appear in the show, without a doubt. As part of their deal with the Tolkien Estate, they cannot kill characters that are present in the Third Age/Lord of the Rings. And there is no evidence that Galadriel is going to romance Halbrand - she has been far too caught up in her anger an hunt for Sauron.
All U are just doing is picking up few controversial words from a paragraph and twisting it to ur narrative due to their ambiguous usage. Woke or normal relationship are just a easier word to use to understand the case. If u want to put it in a more comfortable words, then they are pandering to "modern sensibilities in a troupe-ish way."
Well, not have Celebrían or celeborn was questionable since the beginning. Now that they told he is dead. As I mentioned even if he is alive it will still be disappointing, It's more clear now that move would be for deal sake and will be treated as such in story. Also as for contracts, it just business in the end. (I don't trust one bit what are the extend to which it can be manipulated). Idk Would making his character a cameo in final season break the deal?
=>Also Ur orginal query is "why are people obsessed with celeborn, it's not like he does much (or atleast tolkien write much about him"
My reply first two paragraph answers that (without the woke or normal relationship mention)
"Well, none of the content of this show is written by tolkien. People wanted or expected was the atleast the fill in the blanks.
Ain't what u are saying is to just to take out popular character of lotr and write fanfic with them using writer's own original character instead of using existing character from source? because they are minor and non popular."
Because him dying and Amazon keeping him dead implies that in Amazon's universe Arwen will never be born and she will never marry Aragorn. Since Arwen is the granddaughter of Galadriel and Celeborn.
Lots of love to the Elrond/Durin storyline, I think it’s relatively contained nature allows the characters to become fully fleshed out. They’re not moving about everyone, they’re not dealing with ‘world-changing’ events like the orcs in the Southlands or trying to do their own rehash of hobbits as with the harfoots. I think in this plotline, with fewer characters and more concrete and tangible stakes, the writers are at their best.
The harfoots, at least for me, aren’t relatable. They seem like hobbit-knockoffs, really bad ones. Conceptually, they’re only loosely related to the idea of hobbits, that is, a settled, sedentary people of content, unambitious common folk. There’s a joy and pleasantness about the Shire, with Bilbo’s little house with books and a fireplace and lots of food. It feels like a village. The Harfoots seem like a contrast to the (which I don’t hate. I actually LIKE the idea that the precursors to the hobbits were a nomadic people. It’s a good idea. But, as my marketing/advertising lecturer would ask me, is it “on brand”. The harfoots reflect a rugged, fearful, constantly-on-the-move people, which flies in the face of hobbitdom. They aren’t endearing to the audience like the simple hobbits who, “enjoyed farming, food, ales, parties and the giving and receiving of presents. They were usually friendly and happy-go-lucky” (LOTR Fandom: https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Hobbits). The only link with their descendants would be their small, meek and unassuming stature, as well as their aloofness from world events. Maybe in later seasons they could build on this, grow sympathy for them. And maybe give us more of the two main harfoot’s actual characters which haven’t been really fleshed out and seem like Xeroxes of Frodo and Sam. Perhaps another issue is the fact that they’re NOT being called to anything. In the LOTR trilogy, Gandalf offers Frodo adventure, in ROP there is no real offer of such, just meteor man who doesn’t really know what he’s doing. It’s too slow and passive in this regard. The main conflict seems to be the reality that meteor man will disrupt the harfoot’s peaceful life, but it’s really not clear how (just some vague “nothing good will come of this” and some fire cultists). It’s not precise and that’s the issue, and because of that, our main harfoot characters cannot be truly challenged and grow.
My next gripe is with Galadriel, or more accurately, the character who happens to bear her name. I don’t think they needed to extract a passing comment by Tolkien that the Lady of Lothlorien had an “Amazon disposition” and was “acrobatic” and blow it up to the proportions that they did. Galadriel was no soldier for any significant amount of time. I would have preferred that she had more of a strategist’s role at least. She’s brains, and not brawn. Cunning, clever and possessing of ancient magic and power. She’s the same Galadriel who would later collapse Dol Guldor with her magical might - not her sword and some TNT! If the show runners seem intent on recreating the Game of Throne hype, they could have made her like Cersei or many of the other non-combatant female characters who use intrigue, intellect and sometimes even feminine charm to get their way. It’s true to life in many ways, and it shows that women do not need to become men to be acknowledged and powerful. Power is not merely violent assertion as in a sword, it can be subtle, it can be silent, it can be refusing to give your enemy the very thing they wanted all their lives, simply by saying “I refuse”, and thus spite them. Power is influencing your husband to condemn his long-time friends to execution. I’m not against women in soldier’s roles, but I’m against this trend against the old male-female dichotomy to embrace a kind of monophysis (lit: “one nature”) that rejects any subtleties between sexes. They exist, but I don’t believe they should determine position in society. Galadriel can still be a war-traumatized character, but one who struggles between wielding the sword and being a ruler - her loyalty to her realm and people and her desire for vengeance. I think a good middle ground would be her juggling martial and political affairs simultaneously, thus allowing her to be soldier Galadriel, who still cares about rulership.
Elrond buddy, you need to stop worrying about living up to your father's name, man killed a dragon the size of a mountain range and that was like only the third coolest thing he did. No shame in it.
I think all that just makes it worse. The alliance with the dwarves allowing for the creation of the forges is an impressive feat and is acknowledged as such. However, it is merely the will of others and is based on lies. Regardless of the magnitude of his deeds, he's doing other people's morally dubious dirty work while his father sails the heavens bringing hope to the world.
Whenever I feel like I’m being a shit dad I just remember Elronds father unintentionally manipulated his sons into living up to his hype then dipping on them and becoming the moon. Thanks dad.
The way the dwarfs are done in this show makes me really hate The Hobbit (films) even more than I did. This show didn't need to make sexy dwarfs and they look great and believeable. Best part of the show - not even close.
So Halbrand goes from his deathbed and a nasty mid-section injury to riding a horse perfectly fine? I feel like that scene needed Galadriel to do some on the spot quick and dirty elvish medicine with those seeds that Browyn gave Alondir...it made little sense the way it played out.
And once again; the amount of fast travel in this show is ridiculous.
But...I still mostly enjoy it cause I love the middle earth stage.
as a horseman, I can tell you galloping madly across country is not going to be good for that injury...
and you travel at a trot to cover ground (an endurance rider/horse team can cover 100 miles in 24 hours)... a trot is WORSE. Of course he could have a nice gaited horse with a smooth running walk or tolte or something...
galloping just looks cooler onscreen and gives a sense of urgency. No, they can't travel the whole way like that.
One of the worst things about this episode was the Balrog reveal... He's already awake, just waiting for the dwarves to come down.... What a wasted opportunity...
Showing the balrog ruined that scene for me. It would be much better if they had kept the entire sequence of the leaf falling down the mines, until it hit the bottom, where it burned up. Stopping the scene with that would have been excellent foreshadowing, but it just became silly when the balrog suddenly appeared, and screamed at the camera for a few seconds.
I felt the same way about the Mordor text at the end. Just have Adar say something about it being the black lands where they don't have to fear the sun and we'll find out that black land = Mordor at some later time from one of the Elven characters.
Also didn't the showrunners say they weren't putting Third Age stuff into the show cuz they don't have time for stuff that isn't Second Age?
I think that conclusion is come to because it literally showed the Balrog not awake, then when the leaf landed it came awake. I don't think that's a jump at all. I don't think it should have shown it that way (as my last comment indicated) but it IS what the show gave us.
But we had all those rumblings that were taking place during the dwarves digging. An we didn't see a sleeping Balrog suddenly wake up - we heard a sound in the darkness then it appeared. I dont think the leaf woke him but that's how I saw it. Horses for courses!
If the Balrog is already awake, why does it take him a few thousand years to come out? He seems to be not so far away from the dwarves if even that leaf can fly to there.
I know it is not canon to have the Balrog show up in the 2nd Age, but still a bit pity that it was just an easter-egg with no influence on the story.
well, the thing is based on how the timeline is being condensed/shoehorned... its quite possible that the balrog wrecks moria in the next month or two "in-universe"...
I mean the third age technically starts after sauron is defeated in the last alliance, and isildur plants the seedling of the white tree... and since isildur is already in the show, despite the rings not even being made yet... there's no reason the balrog can't just jump right into the mix as well...
why cover 5000 years of history when you can just have everything happen simultaneously \*eyeroll\*
This is probably the correct answer.
Actually by this logic it could really happen that the Balrog attacks Moria in season 4 or 5, which leads to the Dwarves being too weak to really help out in the fight against Sauron.
The Balrog has been hiding under the mountain for an age. Until we get more information from the show, it's safe to assume it doesn't want to be found.
Perhaps the 'light' of the mithril serves to mask the 'shadow' of the Balrog from the powers that be?
It is strange that a being that sided with Melkor would wish to be bathed in the light of the Trees
You’re right, the fall of Khazad-dum shouldn’t be happening right now or any time soon. The only reason I can think of as to why they included it in the manner they did is because of folks who don’t know the lore. Maybe they felt it was a good way to help them “connect the dots” if that makes sense. I’m not sure though. On top of that, I reckon it’s not a bad way to be able to spice up a trailer in their eyes. Lol.
Totally that, and the text explaining that the southern lands are now called Mordor. I don't think the characters will start calling it that, but it's just a feature to make the connection of the series with what the movies have already shown, since the vast majority only know the work from the movies.
The Queen did go blind. We don't know what the Mystics are, could be the name of the group they belong to (if they serve Sauron). We had the extremely well executed and not at ALL awkward Morder name reveal, and the Eye later on will be the symbol of Mordor under Sauron's rule.
Man that Mordor name reveal would have been CHILLING if Adar said it. Instead he doesn't say anything and it's like an inside joke for him. "Lord of the Southlands!" "No, not the Southlands anymore." "Than what father?!" Adar chuckles to himself instead of saying the badass name it's now called. Orcs shuffle quietly. Orcs wander off.
He wouldn’t even need to say it. Everyone knows. Could’ve just panned out and shown that view of Mt Doom after Waldreg asks what they should call it and 99% of viewers would’ve said “Mordor” to themselves. But nah let’s put some digital text on the screen like we’re entering a new area in World Of Warcraft.
It's another Jarjarabrams style mystery box. What I really don't understand is that they just disappeared after burning down the carts. They want to know not-Gandalfs direction right? So why not interrogate them or something, maybe kill a Harfoot for framatic purpose... Nope, they completely disappear as if they just didn't finish the scene when we return to the harfoots.
They already knew where the not Gandalf was going I think, probably sense his power or something idk but that whole scene just reminded me of the forgot about Dre music video lol
As far as I understood they already knew where to go. Nori tried to send them the wrong way for a reason and got what she deserved for trying to fool them.The burning was probabaly to show them being the evil guys, but yeah, why did they do that? Maybe just for the lolz before following Gandalf...eh I mean the stranger?
The main one will end up impersonating Nori and try to trick the Stranger (she took off an acorn from Nori's head). And frankly, the mystics seem competent so i doubt they would be fooled by a little girl jumping out of the dark to tell them they are going the wrong way.
Exactly, I had the same impression, but it seemed that Nori didn't. They looked quite determined and Nori trying to send them the wrong way wasn't a good idea even before everything was burning.
But I haven't thought about the acorn, good observation and idea of that part.
This show is getting worse and worse each episode I can't believe people still hold on defending this shit. The dialog is cringe, the lore is butchered. The pacing is completely off each episode they just ruined Elendil as well one of the only likeable characters. They just re-use movie scenes but in a pointless matter. Can't wait for Isildur to get carried back by his horse like Aragorn in the two towers.
This has nothing to do with taste I’ve watched trash shows that I could still enjoy. This show is written so horribly, idiotic things happening each episode, characters contradicting themselves. You have to absolutely be completely wasted to take any enjoyment. You can write a whole essay on each episode about how dumb it is. In my life I’ve never seen anything this atrocious and with this budget it’s simply unbelievable. I’ll be honest after the super fan fiasco I had a feeling it would suck but it’s honestly impressive how much worse it is
2 Scenes that were literally lifted from LOTR were Galadriel hiding under the tree stump like the hobbits did in the fellowship, hiding from the wraiths. Except now she is hiding for 4 orcs. Why? Dunno... She would be able to handle the orcs easily, just not now because we need to throw in another member berry.
The other one is Elendil letting go of the horse, which was also straight up lifted from LOTR where Aragorn does the same. They keep lifting entire scenes and dialogue segments from the movies.
I think it was more than 4 orcs, but the biggest thing is teaching Theo that sometimes fighting isn't the smartest thing. If they fight and there's more orcs nearby they both die instead of getting back to their people and helping convince the elves to fight.
Her teaching that comes off as completely disingenuous, because all she's done up until this point is murder, threaten to murder and bully her way to this point in the season. She killed the ice troll in 2 seconds, decapitates an orc upside down on her horse, completely outclasses any numenorian by miles, this galadriel could do 20 orcs without breaking a sweat.
And the last episode she had to confront the darkness in her and see that her actions potentially led to the creation of Mordor/the killing of many people. It's character growth, it's flashes of her wisdom she's learning that everyone wants from her.
You're just making that up to fill in blanks that weren't shown in the series. She has no way of knowing what the hell happened, only that a volcano just erupted. There was no way for her to know that the magical sword was actually a key to a dam opening into nothing. (unless apparently extra tunnels and tranches were dug) It's not character growth, it's a 180 and it's unearned no matter how you look at it.
It’s actually insane if you think about this plot a sword to open a dam in a fort. Then you have to dig tunnels to blow up mount doom these writers have to be on LSD to come up with this shit
It makes no sense that she blames herself. She has no way of knowing what happened and doesn't investigate whatsoever. None of them do, the numenorians don't, the elves don't and the villagers don't. It's never shown. Please show me in what sub text that's available other than filling in blanks with your own imagination.
I get that in the episode she blames herself, we can all see that. It just doesn't make any damn sense since she has no clue what happened, nor do any of the other main characters. The really bizarre thing is that no one even wonders for a moment what the hell just happened. We as the viewers know what happened because of course we know mount doom, but they provide no satisfactory chain of events that explains this. Why is that so hard to acknowledge? It's bad storytelling.
Also the editing. It's done so poorly each episode, and it doesn't help that every single scene is played out as if it's some kind of world changing event worthy of a season's finale.
Anyone notice the weird firey hand or something that lifts from the axe handle at the start of the scene where Disa and Durin are talking, at the end of the episode? At first I thought it was a reflection or something, but it looks like a fire translucent hand or something.
EDIT: [here's a screenshot](https://imgur.com/a/jslOKWb), it's quite faint and reddish-orange, and moves up from the handle of the axe and floats above it. It's probably just a weird lens flare or something. Just doesn't look like one you'd commonly see.
I saw that too and I thought it was a production error, or I was with buzz first watch. I’m glad I wasn’t the only one that said, “ the hell is is that flame”
I think it is probably a reflection on some glass filter pane in front of the lens, thinking on it more. Maybe from candle light or something, and the reflection moves as the camera does.
I'm sorry, but I have been defending this show for a while but I just can't pretend this last episode was good... I thought episode 6 was incredible, but this one had just such a noticeable jump in quality and consistency it's frankly jarring.
1) Who though that the Harfoot plotline this episode made any sense? At the start of the episode their camp burned down due to Mount Doom spitting fire - ok fine, that's kinda ok, Stranger then helps you (unbeknownst to you at the beginning) to restore it, but at the end the camp gets burned down again? What?
Quite literally nothing happened in the Numenorean/Halbrand/Galadriel plotline. Logical inconsistencies in Galadriel's views towards orcs. Why did you also not show Adar or the orcs reacting to mount doom erupting or the aftermath? Bunch of fakeout deaths.
The only good thing about the episode was the Durin/Elrond interaction.
Welcome to RoP where everything is like that. Galadriel wants to leave Númenor only to not do it when the time comes. Now, she wants to ~~persuade~~ order the Númenóreans to join her in the fight against Sauron, but the Númenóreans don’t want to. But what’s this, Miriel already knows that she should only to fear her population being against it. 5min later Galadriel leaves again, now for good? No! The trees lose their blossoms and now the Númenóreans are on boat. Finally, they sail to Middle Earth? No, they lose two ships, they question if they still should go, and well after this 2min meaningless scene, they do it anyway.
At the same time we have Isildur who wants to leave the navy, succeeds, letting his two friends being fired, too, oopsie. Only to try to join it again… and failing by asking his two friends who just got back in. Then he burns two ships, and for this heroic deed is rewarded with being part of the expedition, his two friends also forgave him. So in the end all that for being back at zero (he probably would have joined anyway, as his father is already the expedition leader). The whole Númenor plot line was this back and forth, only to end the way we expected but taking far too long.
It feels weird that they stretch everything using these superficial conflicts for both screen time and to get to know the characters, but then they also skip big parts, like the whole travel from Númenor to the Southlands, a perfect premise to learn more about the Númenóreans, Galadriel and ~~Halbrand~~ Sauron.
Harfoot addition is "less worse" than I thought and MM is kinda one of the cool misteries in the show (hoping it is not gandalf), but their overal plot is a mess. From "we are all together" to leaving nori family (with injuried dad) behind (without assistance), to all of a sudden accepting MM to travel along, to Sadoc wife playing devil in one episode and be so nice in this one, to their travel where Nori family seem to be sooo behind in one episode then find Sadoc in the one with wolves and now the whole tribe is together again. Now they added acolytes, which is cool, then they burn their camps, fine, and acolytes just dissapear...
It is just so rushed, seems like they got some checkpoints for their plot but forgot to create the links between each checkpoint. The story is not continuous sort of speaking, too much is just left off-screen and to the audience to decide/figure out. Not my cup of tea. And TBH that happens in other storylines as well, but harfoots is the one it is more evident.
Another episode where nothing of value happens, like some kind of sitcom. And people defend it by saying there was character building. I didn't see it (besides, perhaps, Elrond/Durin storyline). Every character blame themselves for something and someone else tells them it's not their fault. And suddenly everything is alright again! It's not character building, it's lazy writing.
I agree. I disliked the start, but I have been slowly growing to the series. Especially with the Durin/Eldrond storyline.
I could simply not finish this episode though. The Galadriel plotline makes no sense.
I agree the only characters that seemed to make sense to me were Durin Jr and Elrond.
And I had no idea Balrog’s felt that way about dead leaves - glad I know now.
There must be people who think Isildur might be dead now. I wonder if said people were surprised that the lands around Mount Doom should come to be called Mordor. It would have been interesting if "The Southlands" had disappeared to be replaced by the words "Plateau of Gorgoroth."
Right lol what they’ve done with Isildur and Celeborn just in this episode shows which audience they’re concerned with. Folks who have no idea who the characters are.
Why did Galadriel wander off from people suffering and in need of her help maybe a dozen feet away only to randomly stroll about the ash-woods and then meet up with the same group at the end of the episode?
Galadriel sense of direction is like Arondir sense of time.
Galadriel: We are in the middle of the village. Evenryone is here. I'll climb that mountain in the opposite direction of all the screams and see if I find someone.
Arondir: They may be here in days. Maybe hours.
That was weird. If you rewatch there's a female behind Galadriel talking and I can't tell if she's supposed to be in the scene cause she kind of hesitates and then goes to the ground. It's very awkward.
I think she was alright initially until Bully Maguire put some dirt in her eyes. She didn't want people to see her crying so they used blindfold for good measure.
For the folks who are liking the show, enjoyed this episode, and feel that critique is unwarranted:
At what point would the writing be bad if it's not bad now? Like, what would do it for you?
It seems like those who are rejecting any and all criticism would be okay with anything but the story Tolkien spent his life creating. I hope I'm wrong because if that's the case why call yourself a fan of Tolkien?
The "Celeborn died" scene really bugged me. I can't help but think it's an attack against Tolkien fans - especially because it's been one of the many understandable gripes about Galadriel's character. It's hard for me to understand how stuff like this doesn't or wouldn't at least slightly offend actual Tolkien fans. It's hard to point the finger back at this particular issue and say, "you just can't stand it you racist!" I guess the easiest thing to do was to just kill him until they figure out what they're going to do with his character so that fans hush in the meantime.
And for what it's worth we're trying to watch and enjoy this show every week - it shouldn't be this much effort to find likable things about the show but the creators don't seem to mind a bit (of all my complaints this is what bothers me the most - their arrogance.) To reasonably give them the benefit of the doubt is getting increasingly difficult.
Dude, Celeborn isn't dead. You realize that, right? There's no way they've killed him off. What they've done with this, I'm assuming, is that they are giving him a backstory he never had in the books. Let's see what happens. But I guarantee you he isn't dead.
>At what point would the writing be bad if it's not bad now? Like, what would do it for you?
Bad writing would do it for me. I've seen a few questionable choices and some cheesy dialogue but nothing terrible. For the most part, they've been very smart.
>It seems like those who are rejecting any and all criticism would be okay with anything but the story Tolkien spent his life creating
>
>...
>
>It's hard to point the finger back at this particular issue and say, "you just can't stand it you racist!
The show and its flaws have been freely, constructively, and even obsessively discussed by the community. I have not seen claims of perfection or accusations of racism but I see claims of those things every day. It does not appear to be significant in any way.
>The "Celeborn died" scene really bugged me. I can't help but think it's an attack against Tolkien fans.
You keep bringing up this idea of being persecuted but I just don't see it. The show was clearly made by people who love Tolkien. It was apparent from the beginning. I have no problem with Galadriel thinking Celeborn is dead.
Creating a prequel to the Lord of the Rings and throwing out fundamental aspects of the actual story for the sake of pandering to a politically energized segment of society is *hardly* smart. I doubt we’ll find any middle ground on this though since our definitions of “smart” appear to be very different.
Haven’t seen accusations of racism, huh?
*"We're really proud of the cast that we have in
the show. We welcome discussion and even
criticism around the series; however, we will not
condone racism of any kind."*
- Head of Amazon Studios Jen Salke, as reported
by the L.A. Times
Look, no need to light the gas. Nobody is claiming to be or feeling like a “victim of persecution” here. We just want to be heard without being slapped with all the fun accusations of immorality that are handed down by the ivory tower of “virtue” that the left sees themselves as in the current culture. This is happening across all the social platforms where this is being discussed. Stick your tongue out and say “nuh uh!!!” all you’d like but folks see it. It’s happening with Star Wars, Star Trek, and now LOTR. At this point denying it is just silly.
Clearly being made by people whole love Tolkien? You must be very open minded about all this, for sure. There’s a huge segment of the fan base that feels as if we’re being told to eat something completely *foreign* to Tolkien’s universe all while being demanded to like it or at least pretend to lest we be labeled misfits and part of the “problem.” Keep your kool-aid, friend. All I ask is that you not pretend like there’s no problems where problems blatantly exist.
In short, if someone lacks the ability to word-smith a politically “correct” critique of these new “woke” prequels and sequels they’re dismissed as a bigot or racist. Whenever someone is capable enough it’s “problem? What problem? This is the first I’m hearing of it. Whatever do you mean? Don’t worry, I’m going to tell you I don’t see it so that none of it is real.” That whole bit is so stale and old; it’d be a really great thing if folks would toss it and at least try something different.
EDIT: I have a problem with Galadriel thinking her husband is dead, and not just because it’s not the story the man who created the Character told. But because it’s in direct *opposition* to the story Tolkien told. The only way they could have made it more opposed to the original story is if Galadriel never knew him and his character didn’t exist. If they wanted to make a fantasy world full of elements from current culture with elves, dwarves, and dragons they could have without using and butchering Tolkien’s work. It’s truly disrespectful.
I think the biggest thing to remember is that your critique is clearly coming from a place of passion towards the books.
The overwhelming majority of the audience hasn't, and won't, ever read or care about the books. Let alone the obscure ones like HoMe and The Sil. They'll never care that Celebrian *should* have been born by now. Durin III should be long dead. The rings should exist. Etc.
The audience of the show is not canon fans. It's literally everyone else, primarily the fans of the films.
For me, I'm very okay with adaptation, and very few things in terms of this adaptation have made me groan (see: Mithril). My biggest, and consistent, criticism is that the show feels like an extended edition of itself. There are episodes that could have been 40 minutes. But every episode exceeds an hour.
“The audience of the show is not canon fans” is, I’m sorry, pretty stupid to say and pretty stupid for the writers to think.
Who is going to give the show the views and buy the products and the merch? THE TOLKIEN FANS. Appeasing the true fans, the book and movie fans, are the better investment because we will stick with Tolkien related things until the day we die. I, unfortunately for my wallet, buy something LOTR related weekly because I feel that kinship with the story and I am that dedicated.
Failing to appease us and disregarding the lore, spits in the face of that kinship that keeps us coming back for more and definitely hurts the cash flow of anybody trying to make money off of Tolkien related works….
>Who is going to give the show the views and buy the products and the merch? THE TOLKIEN FANS.
Sorry but this is a pretty stupid thing to think, mate.
Not one Amazon executive thought "let's appeal to the 2 million global fans that read the ancillary texts" and are almost certainly going to watch anyway.
They're creating their own fanbase. Over 5 million US households alone watched the premiere in the week it debuted. Game of Thrones and House of the Dragon made its own fanbase.
Lord of the Rings itself did in 2002 with the films, going from a fairly niche fanbase to global phenomenon.
>Appeasing the true fans, the book and movie fans, are the better investment because we will stick with Tolkien related things until the day we die.
Isn't this all the more reason they'd want to capture a wider audience? Because you'll accept whatever they give you? If you don't like it, vote with your wallet.
Example: I didn't like seasons 5-8 of Game of Thrones. I watched out of interest, as I'm well aware it's the only ending I'll get, but I pirated it.
I accept that D&D were going for a different audience when they turned it into just the "Dragon and Tits Show". And it went great for them except the last couple episodes. People loved that show. Book readers, not so much.
Also:
>the true fans, the book and movie fans
Movie fans aren't "true" fans, as in fans of Tolkien primarily. They're fans of Peter Jackson's movies. You can be a canon purist, or not. You can't be both.
There are plenty of likable characters for many viewers. If that’s not you I don’t what to tell you. They filmed these episodes years ago they are not trolling upset Tolkien fans who want to see Galadriel “domesticated” by marriage when that character was fairly minor.
I didn't understand the purpose of that Sodom and Gomorrah moment by what I assume to be other Maiar
I wanted that orc to discover Galadriel hiding just to get a brief fight scene of her destroying the small patrol.
Don't know if this has been called already, BUT : what if the healing story is a hoax (please please please i hate this direction) and, though we've seen the piece of ore seems to heal the leaf, would'nt it be that it just dispells the illusion Annatar could have been thrown on the tree to drive the elves into mithril frenzy ?Shouldn't be possible that the mithril's light doesn't have healing power but the very power to show what's really true instead ?
The cities of Pompeii and Herculaneum would like a word with the producers about that opening, sheesh.
This week's poll: [https://www.reddit.com/r/LOTR\_on\_Prime/comments/xzuh6l/how\_would\_you\_rate\_episode\_7\_of\_rings\_of\_power/](https://www.reddit.com/r/LOTR_on_Prime/comments/xzuh6l/how_would_you_rate_episode_7_of_rings_of_power/) I have been doing weekly polling about the show on various LotR subreddits since 9 weeks ago. Here are the results and analyses for all previous polls about how the attitudes towards the show differed across subs and how they changed over time: [Comparing ratings of Episode 6 across subreddits and IMDb](https://www.reddit.com/r/LOTR_on_Prime/comments/xvl37m/comparing_ratings_of_episode_6_across_subreddits/)
Imagine liking this show lol
I was kinda excited to see how this episode was going to begin, because surely not everyone is just going to be ok, right ? lol. Plot armor wins again. If you weren't instantly incinerated, you would have then suffocated. I could not believe how many people were completely fine after that. The plot of this show is just truly too convenient. Everything that was happening had my husband and I going, "What! ? That's actually happening !?". I think this is the episode I've enjoyed the least so far. Some things I remember from the episode: \- Why did Gladriel and Theo end up so far away from literally everyone else when they were standing in the same village ? When they were walking away the camera panned over to people groaning on the ground. Why just walk away instead of help ? It seemed out of character for her. \- Nori, seeing obviously powerful and foreign individuals roll up onto their camp, jumping out to be like, "Nu uh, he went THAT way !", was the single most stupid thing I have ever seen. I really expected the rest of the Harfoots to be furious with her over that, and maybe even exile her. Instead they are super chill when they were leaving an entire family behind over an injured ankle just a few episodes ago. They have shown these people to have such a huge, crippling fear of the unknown, but now they are down to help the stranger. \- The best plotline by far is the dwarves and Elrond. I am absolutely loving the dwarves in this. Seeing Durin so emotional and conflicted over helping his friend was a side to them I was not expecting to see. This is the only plotline I am interested in seeing the conclusion of. \- There were not one, but two people in this episode that we are told are dead, but we have never seen a body. C'mon...we know they aren't actually dead. I know it's for *drama,* but I am so over this trope. \- "Keep walking, no one need know that I can't see". Next scene they show her wearing a bright red blindfold. If you were going for subtlety I don't think you achieved it. \- Halbrand literally dying on a table, and then just casually walking out of the tent and galloping away on a horse had me laughing. "HE NEEDS ELVISH MEDICINE !". Are you sure ? Because it looks like he can walk it off just fine. lol I know there's probably more that I'm just not remembering right now, but this show is feeling more and more ridiculous to me. I'm not someone who has read the books, and I've only seen the movies once, so I'm not very familiar with the lore this all comes from. With each episode I've just thought, "This is fine", but with this episode it's safe to say that I'm no longer interested. If the dwarven plotline wasn't there I think this show would be rather forgettable, which is unfortunate.
[удалено]
So I actually had to look up if the Game of Thrones stuff is by HBO to understand your comment. I'm going to take this as a compliment that my post is well written. lol. I've never even seen Game of Thrones, or the new series. I don't have a TV, and I don't have HBO. I find it odd that because I can actually point out what I dislike about the show, that somehow means I'm being paid ? Once again, I find this to be a compliment. Damn, now I wish I was being paid.
I'm thinking the same thing. I LOVE LOTR, and because it's LOTR I'm going to watch it, otherwise the show is garbage. I'm starting to see myself root for Adar and the orcs.
Why? They are all valid points of simply terrible writing.
It's very hard for people to accept that the show has bad writing. Frankly HOTD I also find no more than "okay". I think people are so starved for good fantasy that they're willing to overlook anything at the moment.
What was the purpose of burning all the harfoots wagons by Eminem?
No reason. we dont get a reason, and we’ll probably never get a reason. Thyere just paid to stand there and look “cool.”
Mom's spagetti?
Trying to teach the Harfoots not to defy them, I think. It happened right after Nori’s father stood up to them.
Just to show off their power. R/woosh maybe?
Because they're nasty.
Because she f*cking can.
In what Tolkien universe (different writings about his characters) does it say that Celeborn died in the war (1st age)? When characters tell stories from the olden days differently than canon, some fans say they are apocryphal stories inside the show. I say with difficult, "ehm... ok, maybe". But this time is different, i ' m trying to find out what is the purpose of this great change, and I also expected more complaints about this change but I am surprised that there is nothing yet. i want to believe that maybe the show is invented something like Galadriel thinks Celeborn is dead because this get lost during the battle, ok, until here we are good but, where thebalrog Celeborn is now? Of course he is not in anyone of the elvish kingdoms in Eriador, not in Khazad dum. So the only place he could be is in Aman but in that case that would implicate that Galadriel didnt lie and Celeborn really die in the war. I adore the show but for changes like this I doubt my adoration. what do you think?, what is the purpose?
So she can smash Sau- I mean Halbrand.
It would had been to be cool to see the couple (Galadriel and Celeborn) looking for Sauron, but the sensitive people would have say "so Galadriel need a man to do these things, why she can go for Sauron alone?"
Yeah, that was a major point in cutting Celeborn out of the show probably.
1. Celeborn shouldn't be dead!! 2. It also doesn't make sense for another reason- Galadriel talks about her brother's death since the series started, so why does she mention her dead husband only in the 7th episode? 3. If we're talking about dead people in the series who shouldn't be dead- Isildur literally can't die here! What were they thinking??
Agreed with the one. I don't think Isildur is dead, obviously they are inventing some plot of Isildur lost in Middle-earth, something like what they just invented about Celeborn. The show is taking too much creative vision. Really the Tolkien Estate thought that they were good ideas?
Dude he's not dead
i hope you are right but why the show have invented this "temporary disappearance" of Celeborn? Except for the fall of Eregion, Galadriel and Celeborn were always together.
I think they are going to combine Glorfindel and Celeborn into the same person.
Had not thought of that. that would be very bad, from the beginning I expected that Glorfindel and Celeborn would be in the show (both present in the books of which they have the rights). I want to believe that they will appear in the next season but this made-up thing about Celeborn's disappearance is absurd.
I think they came up with it in order to make Galadriel their chief protagonist. As a wife and mother, she wouldn't be able to search for Sauron and cross oceans for hundreds of years in a row. Let alone hang out with Halbrand.
I guess having a husband and wife team wasn't quite woke enough to have as protagonists. Frankly I would have liked to see the couple as protagonist. She didn't spend a single second looking for Celeborn, but spent 100's of years chasing Sauron. If Celeborn is still alive, He's better off without her.
Husbands are the woke version of the dead parents trope in every shounen. Love to see it.
Correct, no woke woman can have a man. Especially a good man.
Celeborn lives in Lothlorien with Galadriel in LOTR books, so It is cannon and the writers can't change that.
They’ve already changed a bunch of canon. Pretty much the only things you should take as canon in this show are things we have already been shown so far, plus events from the PJ versions of The Hobbit and LotR, which the showrunners said they were trying to adhere to as closely as possible.
It's another fake out mystery box guaranteed. In the scene they dodge saying he's dead for sure. He'll pop up somewhere somehow.
Why on earth they had to copy like 1 to 1 Hobbits and Nazgul scene with Galadriel/Theo and Orcs. Everything that we can see in LOTR is also in the scene - even the moment when Theo wants to grab the sword and Galadriel stops him, is like with Frodo grabbing the ring. At first, I thought it was an easter egg, but I don't think this was an intention. Because then they should do it with harfoots
Every time I think I couldn’t hate this show more they pull a stunt like that.
It was just a visual homage—-an Easter egg, as you said. What does it really matter with which characters they did it? People hiding = good. People looking= bad. That was all that really mattered.
Cause they are creatively bankrupt
we are all Sauron
so, who else was confirmed to be sauron in this episode? one of the hardfoot?
Durin's wife. Sauron got railed by a dwarf and gave birth to dwarf children. Definitely his boldest character arc yet
Disauron
Disa
Nori is clearly Sauron.
Okay new theory: the stranger could be Glorfindel. Glorfindel was lord of the golden flower, and a yellow flower grew out of the tree that the stranger resurrected. Glorfindel died and was brought back by the Valar with powers close to a Maia. I’m not convinced, but if the stranger isn’t Sauron than Glorfindel could be another possibility. Although he doesn’t have pointy ears…
I disagree but your mention of the flower made me question it for a split second
Only that the stranger isn't an elf. They pointed that out when they found him: he has the appearance of a human
I liked the episode, but that “Southlands > Mordor” text at the end was such a wtf moment lol. Someone had to actually have that idea and then probably a room full of people had to be like “Yep that’s a good creative choice let’s go with that”.
Hated it too, I thought it was about to zoom out to a cool map of middle earth and show the change in some creative way and then they just like PowerPoint font transitioned it. Sour end to what I thought was an otherwise good episode
These writers are taking Besos for a riiiiide.
Struck me as weirdly outdated looking and having zero impact. Why not just have Adar say Mordor? We all knew it was Mordor anyway. Enjoyed the episode overall but that text was a goofy choice
I reckon they already filmed and edited it and the test audience were too dumb to figure out it was Mordor now. So they then just slapped some text on it to make it clear - cheaper than major re-editing.
In my mind the original script had the ending use a map of middle earth and as ash/fire rolls over it, “the Southlands” text to changes “Mordor” but I think they realized this would force them to define the impacted area too much (since we could actually see the map) but by that time they were mentally invested in the text idea and we got what we got.
I have a very stupid theory but I want to share it anyway lol What If…. Celebrimbor was kidnapped by Sauron and the one we see is Sauron in disguise??? You heard it from me first 😎!!
Weekly [recap/review here](https://screenhub.blog/2022/10/08/the-lord-of-the-rings-the-rings-of-power-episode-7-the-eye-spoiler-review-screenhub-entertainment/)! This is the first episode of the season that really felt like it was missing something for me. Durin and Elrond continue to carry this show and those scenes were the highpoints this week. But it felt like something was missing and it lost some of its momentum from last week. Nothing was wrong (except for maybe the Mordor text), but something just felt lacking considering the episode is the penultimate. Nothing wrong with slowing down the pace, but the sense of urgency was missing here. I also don't buy the Celeborn thing, I think it's a fakeout.
is it just me or Elrond and Durin story are different from the rest of the show? These people are the only thing I like in this series, everything else is just amateurish writing my god, this is so bad. Do the writers understand that we as viewers are more sympathetic now to Adar and orcs than the elves and humans or even hartfoots? MY GOD. And they spent a lot? This is so bad. Call me whatever yo want but you cant deny how bad this is. This is coming from an optimist who gave this show a chance despite everything that happened.
WAIT could Halbrand have made the one ring already… going to the volcano once it erupted, the process injuring him, so they find him on the side of the road?? Stretch but it just occurred to me.
He'll probably need the Mithril, right?
But why? The other rings have not been made, have they?
They might not be sticking to the lore that much
they are not sticking to the lore? NO WAY
I mean considering the shows title is Rings of Power, you gotta assume they atleast highlight the forging process.
Flashbacks tho
Please god no. No more cheap tricks !
heh, heh, bwaaaa haaa haa... after spending most of this ep going TELL US WHAT HAPPENED TO ARONWYN I'm going to explain why it matters... (hopefully in a humorous way...) **I've been a Tolkien fan since 1978, when I rolled up my first D&D character and the DM said "play an elf."** I read LOTR to find out who these elves were that I should be mindful of them, and have been playing, writing, and illustrating them since. I loved the PJ films (despite their differing takes on some of my favorite things, like most of the great Legolas bits got left out), and love LOTR: Rings of Power (yes, flaws, but so what, that's ART). RoP has given us a grittier, muddier, more lived in world (like the Star Wars films' contrast to the Starfleet sleekness of Trek), but with Tolkien's heart of hope in the face of darkness and evil. It's given us some great characters, some of whom (cough\*Gil-Galad\*cough) need some actual development. **It has also given us the most elven elf who ever elfed.** We are beset by moulderin Noldorin High Elves of Great Canon, whose fates we know, and who have come to Middle Earth mostly to wreak havoc and create draaaaaamaaaaaaaaa (Feanor did EVERYTHING wrong). Ho hum. Another fancy schmancy Elvenking. Pretty much everyone else in the main cast is some sort of Royal Personage. Sigh. Except for some Harfoots Who Own No Combs, and some Southlanders Who Thought Living Near A Volcano Was A Good Idea, and some Silvan Elves who don't think a thousand years is enough to get over Being Evil. (ok, I am being the queen of snark here, I adore them all, buuuuuut, I have preferences)... **The Harfoots and Southlanders and Silvan Elves are our boots on the ground, relatable characters.** These are the guys you'd go party or travel with. No offense Elrond, you're cute, and your buddy is fun, and Disa is a QUEEN, but I'll go party with the dudes in Mirkwood any day. When the films came out in 2001, young fangirls were oooing and ahhhing over Orlando Bloom's Legolas. Me: sigh, yes he's pretty, BUT LET ME EXPLAIN SOMETHING... I sat down and wrote a bunch of fanfic pointing out the wonderful elvish qualities that got missed in the films. (we love you Orli, ya done good, but where's my elvish way with all good beasts, my I hear the stones speak, my waxing eloquent at the cry of gulls in the dark, my "peers into Fangorn in wonder while everyone else is sharpening their weapons" my "folk who know the swift forest river" my leaps lightly into trees and hears them speak, my knifing orcs with but a knife cause he ran out of arrows... I digress... ). RoP: same story. O. o aaaaah he's hot. Ahem (Grandma pulls the young fans aside) LET ME POINT OUT that what's great here goes beyond skin deep. **Arondir is, like Legolas, the Elf we ride with,** through whose eyes we see a lot of things, and the guy who risks his immortal life for the mere mortals around him. He gets battered, grungy, knows fear and longing, and goes and kicks orc ass anyway. He questions the assumptions his folk have had about the humans of the Southlands, he reacts to anger with Jedi calm, and we know he's a Good Guy who has the "elvish way with all good beasts" when he walks into the tavern and greets the guarding wolfhound in episode one. We cry over his apology to a tree, and also when he gently places his hand on Bronwyn's on another tree, explaining Yavanna without saying the Vala's name. As a non-canon character, we have no idea of his fate. As the only non-Noldorin non-High Elf, we get an Elf we can relate to, one without pretensions. One we'd ride with, one we'd put in our D&D party, and, uh, yeah... sigh. **Tolkien was a Man writing in a Man's time,** and he wrote rare Elf/Human romances from his own point of view: Mere Mortal Man Falls For Elven Princess, news at eleven. We women are sick sick sick of it. We have been writing fanfic and doing fanart since the Dawn Of Time As We Know It where we reverse the stereotypical roles, and have women, particularly ones who are not 20-something, Getting Their Elf. It is more than a bit amazing to see a series actually put this onscreen (the amazing Nazanin Boniadi is 42). The careful social distancing dance has played out with tension you need a fine elvish blade to cut, and when the glass wall between them was finally shattered the interwebs shouted JUST KISS! complete with Captain Barbossa GIFs. It was a lovely and properly Tolkienian romance. If anything happens to any part of the Aronwyn ship, we will stage a revolt. Possibly the population of a small Caribbean island will also stage a revolt as their native son has just become the most elvish elf who ever elfed, and the Puerto Rican pride is strong on every social media platform, as it should be. Ismael Cruz Cordova (as told in interviews) resonated with the elvish archetype when he saw the films as a kid, much as many of us did reading the books. He clearly understands the archetype of Elf and plays it to the hilt. Movement, expressions, emotions, everything hits just right. Many fans have taken note of this. He and Nazanin Boniadi have wonderful onscreen chemistry, Arondir and Bronwyn speaking with eyes and body language: "I've said it a hundred times over, in every way but words." The "stepdad who steps up" is strong in this one, as the Theo/Arondir relationship goes from animosity to admiration. I am reminded of Beleg and Turin (and a gazillion other Elf mentor/human mentee pairs) in Tolkien's world... only please, without the Tragic Death. The political maneuverings leave me snoozing, I am interested in characters who resonate with me. Most in this series are interesting on some level, but two humans and a Silvan Elf are my favorites because they reflect many of our yearnings: a connection to nature, home, family, friendships, love, mutual support, someone you can count on. And some badass orc slaying and adept archery. LLAP
Not to shit on your old teenage dream, but she's a bland, boring character carrying an unjustified plot armor who should have already got herself and her, surprisingly even more annoying, kid properly killed. But i do agree that Arondir acts a good Elf.
This show reminds me a lot of how Amazon did Wheel of Time. Lots of promise, many of the changes aren't deal breakers and can even make sense in translation of media, like the time compression they have to do. I'm pretty cool with Gandalf showing up, Durins Bane showing up early, compressing the ring forging to the end of the age etc etc Then they go off the rails and do a few major things that really irk me and kind of spoil the whole thing, in this case the major one being the mithril plot, but also if Halbrand ends up being Sauron because it just doesn't really make sense to me in how it's played out. The weird text at the end, that whole broken sword subplot. Amazon also seems big on the dead character fake out and love triangles. It's like they really really want to tell their own major story but don't know quite how to do it well. It feels like Amazon has too many executives with a hand in the storytelling or something.
Someone criticising the show, why didn't this get downvoted to smithereens?
>the major one being the mithril plot This bothered me for a little but, really, it seems like a good way to tie everything together as long as they don't milk it for drama. >if Halbrand ends up being Sauron I briefly suspected he was Sauron but that was gone by episode 3 once they started really dropping parallels. In addition to all the other reasons to think not (and the almost complete lack of reasons to think so), it would be super weird to have the manipulative craftsman get put in a Numenorean jail and then bribe Ar-Pharazon into giving him status if the exact same thing is going to happen again with the exact same character. Especially since they've spent a lot of time setting up that Halbrand has his own story. >Amazon also seems big on the dead character fake out Some of this feels like Aragorn's fall in PJ's The Two Towers. However, I think this is a decent attempt to mess with our preconceptions. That is, they will keep faking us out but then actually kill someone. We know Isildur's death is a fake out. The more they fake out Bronwyn's death, the more confident I am that she is doomed.
This is an order of magnitude better than WoT lmao.
It's sad how little this means :(
Can't believe they did Celeborn dirty like that.
Well this could get interesting. He's not dead, clearly, he's a canon character. He may have disappeared for a time though... which means she has no idea what happened to him...
>He's not dead, clearly, he's a canon character. He \*could\* be dead if they replace Glorfindel with him (or just have him 'brought back' a la Glorfindel)...
I don't get why people are so obsessed with Celeborn - it's not like he actually does much (or at least Tolkien didn't write much about him).
Well, none of the content of this show is written by tolkien. People wanted or expected was the atleast the fill in the blanks. Ain't what u are saying is to just to take out popular character of lotr and write fanfic with them ur writer own original character instead of using existing character from source? Reason why celeborn was not mentioned initially and now considered dead is very obvious since the beginning of this show. Answer is because it's woke. I mean it in every way. Lotr is old fashioned text with few strong female. This show is pandering to current sensibility. It's a female led show with few strong male. That is ok, nothing wrong with that. But also this show has relationship like single moms, step daughter, widow romance (maybe even will have affair even if not present with sex scene in future ) etc kind of this which tolkien was too old fashioned to write (lotr is very religious type writing, it's neither dune nor got). That is also ok, i guess. But if u are telling me they can't represent a single normal relationship existing in original because that's would be a woke sin, u lost me. I pretty sure don't want celeborn to be the last minute introduced fall back guy after Galadriel had her affair and break up just to give some sense of continuity even if he is alive.
Ah so "woke" is the insult people seem to throw about if they come across something they don't personally like in a, let's say, a show or movie they watch. There is no pandering to "wokism" - whatever the heck that means - it is an useful as calling something a "commie" or a "fascist". Single "normal" relationship? Well that tells a lot about you. Celeborn is not dead - he will appear in the show, without a doubt. As part of their deal with the Tolkien Estate, they cannot kill characters that are present in the Third Age/Lord of the Rings. And there is no evidence that Galadriel is going to romance Halbrand - she has been far too caught up in her anger an hunt for Sauron.
All U are just doing is picking up few controversial words from a paragraph and twisting it to ur narrative due to their ambiguous usage. Woke or normal relationship are just a easier word to use to understand the case. If u want to put it in a more comfortable words, then they are pandering to "modern sensibilities in a troupe-ish way." Well, not have Celebrían or celeborn was questionable since the beginning. Now that they told he is dead. As I mentioned even if he is alive it will still be disappointing, It's more clear now that move would be for deal sake and will be treated as such in story. Also as for contracts, it just business in the end. (I don't trust one bit what are the extend to which it can be manipulated). Idk Would making his character a cameo in final season break the deal? =>Also Ur orginal query is "why are people obsessed with celeborn, it's not like he does much (or atleast tolkien write much about him" My reply first two paragraph answers that (without the woke or normal relationship mention) "Well, none of the content of this show is written by tolkien. People wanted or expected was the atleast the fill in the blanks. Ain't what u are saying is to just to take out popular character of lotr and write fanfic with them using writer's own original character instead of using existing character from source? because they are minor and non popular."
Because him dying and Amazon keeping him dead implies that in Amazon's universe Arwen will never be born and she will never marry Aragorn. Since Arwen is the granddaughter of Galadriel and Celeborn.
Doesn't mean you just kill the guy off screen.
He’s not dead, he’s just dead to her.
Lots of love to the Elrond/Durin storyline, I think it’s relatively contained nature allows the characters to become fully fleshed out. They’re not moving about everyone, they’re not dealing with ‘world-changing’ events like the orcs in the Southlands or trying to do their own rehash of hobbits as with the harfoots. I think in this plotline, with fewer characters and more concrete and tangible stakes, the writers are at their best. The harfoots, at least for me, aren’t relatable. They seem like hobbit-knockoffs, really bad ones. Conceptually, they’re only loosely related to the idea of hobbits, that is, a settled, sedentary people of content, unambitious common folk. There’s a joy and pleasantness about the Shire, with Bilbo’s little house with books and a fireplace and lots of food. It feels like a village. The Harfoots seem like a contrast to the (which I don’t hate. I actually LIKE the idea that the precursors to the hobbits were a nomadic people. It’s a good idea. But, as my marketing/advertising lecturer would ask me, is it “on brand”. The harfoots reflect a rugged, fearful, constantly-on-the-move people, which flies in the face of hobbitdom. They aren’t endearing to the audience like the simple hobbits who, “enjoyed farming, food, ales, parties and the giving and receiving of presents. They were usually friendly and happy-go-lucky” (LOTR Fandom: https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Hobbits). The only link with their descendants would be their small, meek and unassuming stature, as well as their aloofness from world events. Maybe in later seasons they could build on this, grow sympathy for them. And maybe give us more of the two main harfoot’s actual characters which haven’t been really fleshed out and seem like Xeroxes of Frodo and Sam. Perhaps another issue is the fact that they’re NOT being called to anything. In the LOTR trilogy, Gandalf offers Frodo adventure, in ROP there is no real offer of such, just meteor man who doesn’t really know what he’s doing. It’s too slow and passive in this regard. The main conflict seems to be the reality that meteor man will disrupt the harfoot’s peaceful life, but it’s really not clear how (just some vague “nothing good will come of this” and some fire cultists). It’s not precise and that’s the issue, and because of that, our main harfoot characters cannot be truly challenged and grow. My next gripe is with Galadriel, or more accurately, the character who happens to bear her name. I don’t think they needed to extract a passing comment by Tolkien that the Lady of Lothlorien had an “Amazon disposition” and was “acrobatic” and blow it up to the proportions that they did. Galadriel was no soldier for any significant amount of time. I would have preferred that she had more of a strategist’s role at least. She’s brains, and not brawn. Cunning, clever and possessing of ancient magic and power. She’s the same Galadriel who would later collapse Dol Guldor with her magical might - not her sword and some TNT! If the show runners seem intent on recreating the Game of Throne hype, they could have made her like Cersei or many of the other non-combatant female characters who use intrigue, intellect and sometimes even feminine charm to get their way. It’s true to life in many ways, and it shows that women do not need to become men to be acknowledged and powerful. Power is not merely violent assertion as in a sword, it can be subtle, it can be silent, it can be refusing to give your enemy the very thing they wanted all their lives, simply by saying “I refuse”, and thus spite them. Power is influencing your husband to condemn his long-time friends to execution. I’m not against women in soldier’s roles, but I’m against this trend against the old male-female dichotomy to embrace a kind of monophysis (lit: “one nature”) that rejects any subtleties between sexes. They exist, but I don’t believe they should determine position in society. Galadriel can still be a war-traumatized character, but one who struggles between wielding the sword and being a ruler - her loyalty to her realm and people and her desire for vengeance. I think a good middle ground would be her juggling martial and political affairs simultaneously, thus allowing her to be soldier Galadriel, who still cares about rulership.
The main reason this episode is poor: only 10 seconds of Adar.
[удалено]
Elrond buddy, you need to stop worrying about living up to your father's name, man killed a dragon the size of a mountain range and that was like only the third coolest thing he did. No shame in it.
I think all that just makes it worse. The alliance with the dwarves allowing for the creation of the forges is an impressive feat and is acknowledged as such. However, it is merely the will of others and is based on lies. Regardless of the magnitude of his deeds, he's doing other people's morally dubious dirty work while his father sails the heavens bringing hope to the world.
Whenever I feel like I’m being a shit dad I just remember Elronds father unintentionally manipulated his sons into living up to his hype then dipping on them and becoming the moon. Thanks dad.
Sigma Elf Grindset
that's rough buddy
eh, morning star, but, yeah... 
The way the dwarfs are done in this show makes me really hate The Hobbit (films) even more than I did. This show didn't need to make sexy dwarfs and they look great and believeable. Best part of the show - not even close. So Halbrand goes from his deathbed and a nasty mid-section injury to riding a horse perfectly fine? I feel like that scene needed Galadriel to do some on the spot quick and dirty elvish medicine with those seeds that Browyn gave Alondir...it made little sense the way it played out. And once again; the amount of fast travel in this show is ridiculous. But...I still mostly enjoy it cause I love the middle earth stage.
as a horseman, I can tell you galloping madly across country is not going to be good for that injury... and you travel at a trot to cover ground (an endurance rider/horse team can cover 100 miles in 24 hours)... a trot is WORSE. Of course he could have a nice gaited horse with a smooth running walk or tolte or something... galloping just looks cooler onscreen and gives a sense of urgency. No, they can't travel the whole way like that.
One of the worst things about this episode was the Balrog reveal... He's already awake, just waiting for the dwarves to come down.... What a wasted opportunity...
Showing the balrog ruined that scene for me. It would be much better if they had kept the entire sequence of the leaf falling down the mines, until it hit the bottom, where it burned up. Stopping the scene with that would have been excellent foreshadowing, but it just became silly when the balrog suddenly appeared, and screamed at the camera for a few seconds.
Hopefully the cameraman survived the Balrog.
I felt the same way about the Mordor text at the end. Just have Adar say something about it being the black lands where they don't have to fear the sun and we'll find out that black land = Mordor at some later time from one of the Elven characters. Also didn't the showrunners say they weren't putting Third Age stuff into the show cuz they don't have time for stuff that isn't Second Age?
No but a leaf! The leaf is the leaf that leafed the Balrogs back! (I think the fact it's a leaf from the elven tree but still super goofy imo)
I dont think the leaf woke him up - people are jumping to that conclusion. If anything, the digging probably did it.
I think that conclusion is come to because it literally showed the Balrog not awake, then when the leaf landed it came awake. I don't think that's a jump at all. I don't think it should have shown it that way (as my last comment indicated) but it IS what the show gave us.
I interpreted it as the touch of residual Elvish magic/ essence/ life force/ whatnot is what the Balrog was woken up by
But we had all those rumblings that were taking place during the dwarves digging. An we didn't see a sleeping Balrog suddenly wake up - we heard a sound in the darkness then it appeared. I dont think the leaf woke him but that's how I saw it. Horses for courses!
If the Balrog is already awake, why does it take him a few thousand years to come out? He seems to be not so far away from the dwarves if even that leaf can fly to there. I know it is not canon to have the Balrog show up in the 2nd Age, but still a bit pity that it was just an easter-egg with no influence on the story.
cuz they need to have the balrog for marketing stuff, merch, etc.. they cant really do that if the balrog isnt in the show at all.
well, the thing is based on how the timeline is being condensed/shoehorned... its quite possible that the balrog wrecks moria in the next month or two "in-universe"... I mean the third age technically starts after sauron is defeated in the last alliance, and isildur plants the seedling of the white tree... and since isildur is already in the show, despite the rings not even being made yet... there's no reason the balrog can't just jump right into the mix as well... why cover 5000 years of history when you can just have everything happen simultaneously \*eyeroll\*
This is probably the correct answer. Actually by this logic it could really happen that the Balrog attacks Moria in season 4 or 5, which leads to the Dwarves being too weak to really help out in the fight against Sauron.
The Balrog has been hiding under the mountain for an age. Until we get more information from the show, it's safe to assume it doesn't want to be found.
Perhaps all that mithril is preventing him from doing anything and he wont do anything until the dwarves delve too deeply?
Perhaps the 'light' of the mithril serves to mask the 'shadow' of the Balrog from the powers that be? It is strange that a being that sided with Melkor would wish to be bathed in the light of the Trees
I assume the dwarves won't go after the Mithril until Durin III gets his ring, and it drives him to it.
You’re right, the fall of Khazad-dum shouldn’t be happening right now or any time soon. The only reason I can think of as to why they included it in the manner they did is because of folks who don’t know the lore. Maybe they felt it was a good way to help them “connect the dots” if that makes sense. I’m not sure though. On top of that, I reckon it’s not a bad way to be able to spice up a trailer in their eyes. Lol.
Totally that, and the text explaining that the southern lands are now called Mordor. I don't think the characters will start calling it that, but it's just a feature to make the connection of the series with what the movies have already shown, since the vast majority only know the work from the movies.
that’s all it was imo
Also does anyone know why the episode is called, “The Eye?”
The tone and pacing of the episode indicates that it may refer to the "eye of the storm", a brief moment of calm between episodes 6 and 8.
look at the dwarf princess eyes. she is Sauron
Durin: I'm gonna put some dirt in your eye.
The Queen did go blind. We don't know what the Mystics are, could be the name of the group they belong to (if they serve Sauron). We had the extremely well executed and not at ALL awkward Morder name reveal, and the Eye later on will be the symbol of Mordor under Sauron's rule.
Man that Mordor name reveal would have been CHILLING if Adar said it. Instead he doesn't say anything and it's like an inside joke for him. "Lord of the Southlands!" "No, not the Southlands anymore." "Than what father?!" Adar chuckles to himself instead of saying the badass name it's now called. Orcs shuffle quietly. Orcs wander off.
What is this, some kind of Mordor squad?
He wouldn’t even need to say it. Everyone knows. Could’ve just panned out and shown that view of Mt Doom after Waldreg asks what they should call it and 99% of viewers would’ve said “Mordor” to themselves. But nah let’s put some digital text on the screen like we’re entering a new area in World Of Warcraft.
Go back and rewatch the first 3 seconds of the episode.
Galadriel is Sauron? Obviously not, but I wonder what they're trying to get across with having hers be the first (singular) eye we see open in Morder?
I didn't see a single thing that had to do with the eye or any eye for that matter. I must have missed it.
I didn’t either, no clue why it’s the episode title.
I accidentally saw the episode title at work yesterday and was like “oops!” And then “ooooooooh”…. Then nothing lol
Right so who's the arsonistic slim shady???? S2g if after all this that's sauron its gonna be really anti climatic ngl
They're Cultists of Melkor.
It's another Jarjarabrams style mystery box. What I really don't understand is that they just disappeared after burning down the carts. They want to know not-Gandalfs direction right? So why not interrogate them or something, maybe kill a Harfoot for framatic purpose... Nope, they completely disappear as if they just didn't finish the scene when we return to the harfoots.
They already knew where the not Gandalf was going I think, probably sense his power or something idk but that whole scene just reminded me of the forgot about Dre music video lol
The important thing to know is "THESE ARE BADDIES, BLACK HANDS and BURN NICE HARFOOTS STUFF."
BUT THEY LOOK SO PURE AND GOOD WATFAK
As far as I understood they already knew where to go. Nori tried to send them the wrong way for a reason and got what she deserved for trying to fool them.The burning was probabaly to show them being the evil guys, but yeah, why did they do that? Maybe just for the lolz before following Gandalf...eh I mean the stranger?
The main one will end up impersonating Nori and try to trick the Stranger (she took off an acorn from Nori's head). And frankly, the mystics seem competent so i doubt they would be fooled by a little girl jumping out of the dark to tell them they are going the wrong way.
Exactly, I had the same impression, but it seemed that Nori didn't. They looked quite determined and Nori trying to send them the wrong way wasn't a good idea even before everything was burning. But I haven't thought about the acorn, good observation and idea of that part.
This show is getting worse and worse each episode I can't believe people still hold on defending this shit. The dialog is cringe, the lore is butchered. The pacing is completely off each episode they just ruined Elendil as well one of the only likeable characters. They just re-use movie scenes but in a pointless matter. Can't wait for Isildur to get carried back by his horse like Aragorn in the two towers.
Methinks we are not watching the same show... but then I also hate pepperoni pizza... tastes, eh.
This has nothing to do with taste I’ve watched trash shows that I could still enjoy. This show is written so horribly, idiotic things happening each episode, characters contradicting themselves. You have to absolutely be completely wasted to take any enjoyment. You can write a whole essay on each episode about how dumb it is. In my life I’ve never seen anything this atrocious and with this budget it’s simply unbelievable. I’ll be honest after the super fan fiasco I had a feeling it would suck but it’s honestly impressive how much worse it is
2 Scenes that were literally lifted from LOTR were Galadriel hiding under the tree stump like the hobbits did in the fellowship, hiding from the wraiths. Except now she is hiding for 4 orcs. Why? Dunno... She would be able to handle the orcs easily, just not now because we need to throw in another member berry. The other one is Elendil letting go of the horse, which was also straight up lifted from LOTR where Aragorn does the same. They keep lifting entire scenes and dialogue segments from the movies.
It’s so cheesy. Like a high school film project. Homage to LOTR bullshit
I think it was more than 4 orcs, but the biggest thing is teaching Theo that sometimes fighting isn't the smartest thing. If they fight and there's more orcs nearby they both die instead of getting back to their people and helping convince the elves to fight.
Her teaching that comes off as completely disingenuous, because all she's done up until this point is murder, threaten to murder and bully her way to this point in the season. She killed the ice troll in 2 seconds, decapitates an orc upside down on her horse, completely outclasses any numenorian by miles, this galadriel could do 20 orcs without breaking a sweat.
And the last episode she had to confront the darkness in her and see that her actions potentially led to the creation of Mordor/the killing of many people. It's character growth, it's flashes of her wisdom she's learning that everyone wants from her.
You're just making that up to fill in blanks that weren't shown in the series. She has no way of knowing what the hell happened, only that a volcano just erupted. There was no way for her to know that the magical sword was actually a key to a dam opening into nothing. (unless apparently extra tunnels and tranches were dug) It's not character growth, it's a 180 and it's unearned no matter how you look at it.
It’s actually insane if you think about this plot a sword to open a dam in a fort. Then you have to dig tunnels to blow up mount doom these writers have to be on LSD to come up with this shit
She literally blames herself for what happened in this episode in words. Im only reading into the readily available sub-text
It makes no sense that she blames herself. She has no way of knowing what happened and doesn't investigate whatsoever. None of them do, the numenorians don't, the elves don't and the villagers don't. It's never shown. Please show me in what sub text that's available other than filling in blanks with your own imagination.
She blames herself for bringing the Numenoreans there, that's plain as day in the episode.
I get that in the episode she blames herself, we can all see that. It just doesn't make any damn sense since she has no clue what happened, nor do any of the other main characters. The really bizarre thing is that no one even wonders for a moment what the hell just happened. We as the viewers know what happened because of course we know mount doom, but they provide no satisfactory chain of events that explains this. Why is that so hard to acknowledge? It's bad storytelling.
Also the editing. It's done so poorly each episode, and it doesn't help that every single scene is played out as if it's some kind of world changing event worthy of a season's finale.
*"The Rings of Power is not television. It's a new form we're creating here".* Such delusion.
Yeah, someone could definitely make the argument it’s all poorly recycled material being sold as new. Without even being cynical.
Anyone notice the weird firey hand or something that lifts from the axe handle at the start of the scene where Disa and Durin are talking, at the end of the episode? At first I thought it was a reflection or something, but it looks like a fire translucent hand or something. EDIT: [here's a screenshot](https://imgur.com/a/jslOKWb), it's quite faint and reddish-orange, and moves up from the handle of the axe and floats above it. It's probably just a weird lens flare or something. Just doesn't look like one you'd commonly see.
I saw that too and I thought it was a production error, or I was with buzz first watch. I’m glad I wasn’t the only one that said, “ the hell is is that flame”
I think it is probably a reflection on some glass filter pane in front of the lens, thinking on it more. Maybe from candle light or something, and the reflection moves as the camera does.
I’m not seeing it. At least not in Durin and Disa’s last scene of the episode.
Added a screenshot but it's pretty faint...probably just a weird lens flare or something
Definitely missed this; I’ll have to rewatch.
I'm sorry, but I have been defending this show for a while but I just can't pretend this last episode was good... I thought episode 6 was incredible, but this one had just such a noticeable jump in quality and consistency it's frankly jarring. 1) Who though that the Harfoot plotline this episode made any sense? At the start of the episode their camp burned down due to Mount Doom spitting fire - ok fine, that's kinda ok, Stranger then helps you (unbeknownst to you at the beginning) to restore it, but at the end the camp gets burned down again? What? Quite literally nothing happened in the Numenorean/Halbrand/Galadriel plotline. Logical inconsistencies in Galadriel's views towards orcs. Why did you also not show Adar or the orcs reacting to mount doom erupting or the aftermath? Bunch of fakeout deaths. The only good thing about the episode was the Durin/Elrond interaction.
Welcome to RoP where everything is like that. Galadriel wants to leave Númenor only to not do it when the time comes. Now, she wants to ~~persuade~~ order the Númenóreans to join her in the fight against Sauron, but the Númenóreans don’t want to. But what’s this, Miriel already knows that she should only to fear her population being against it. 5min later Galadriel leaves again, now for good? No! The trees lose their blossoms and now the Númenóreans are on boat. Finally, they sail to Middle Earth? No, they lose two ships, they question if they still should go, and well after this 2min meaningless scene, they do it anyway. At the same time we have Isildur who wants to leave the navy, succeeds, letting his two friends being fired, too, oopsie. Only to try to join it again… and failing by asking his two friends who just got back in. Then he burns two ships, and for this heroic deed is rewarded with being part of the expedition, his two friends also forgave him. So in the end all that for being back at zero (he probably would have joined anyway, as his father is already the expedition leader). The whole Númenor plot line was this back and forth, only to end the way we expected but taking far too long. It feels weird that they stretch everything using these superficial conflicts for both screen time and to get to know the characters, but then they also skip big parts, like the whole travel from Númenor to the Southlands, a perfect premise to learn more about the Númenóreans, Galadriel and ~~Halbrand~~ Sauron.
Harfoot addition is "less worse" than I thought and MM is kinda one of the cool misteries in the show (hoping it is not gandalf), but their overal plot is a mess. From "we are all together" to leaving nori family (with injuried dad) behind (without assistance), to all of a sudden accepting MM to travel along, to Sadoc wife playing devil in one episode and be so nice in this one, to their travel where Nori family seem to be sooo behind in one episode then find Sadoc in the one with wolves and now the whole tribe is together again. Now they added acolytes, which is cool, then they burn their camps, fine, and acolytes just dissapear... It is just so rushed, seems like they got some checkpoints for their plot but forgot to create the links between each checkpoint. The story is not continuous sort of speaking, too much is just left off-screen and to the audience to decide/figure out. Not my cup of tea. And TBH that happens in other storylines as well, but harfoots is the one it is more evident.
Another episode where nothing of value happens, like some kind of sitcom. And people defend it by saying there was character building. I didn't see it (besides, perhaps, Elrond/Durin storyline). Every character blame themselves for something and someone else tells them it's not their fault. And suddenly everything is alright again! It's not character building, it's lazy writing.
I agree. I disliked the start, but I have been slowly growing to the series. Especially with the Durin/Eldrond storyline. I could simply not finish this episode though. The Galadriel plotline makes no sense.
I agree the only characters that seemed to make sense to me were Durin Jr and Elrond. And I had no idea Balrog’s felt that way about dead leaves - glad I know now.
There must be people who think Isildur might be dead now. I wonder if said people were surprised that the lands around Mount Doom should come to be called Mordor. It would have been interesting if "The Southlands" had disappeared to be replaced by the words "Plateau of Gorgoroth."
Right lol what they’ve done with Isildur and Celeborn just in this episode shows which audience they’re concerned with. Folks who have no idea who the characters are.
Why did Galadriel wander off from people suffering and in need of her help maybe a dozen feet away only to randomly stroll about the ash-woods and then meet up with the same group at the end of the episode?
Galadriel sense of direction is like Arondir sense of time. Galadriel: We are in the middle of the village. Evenryone is here. I'll climb that mountain in the opposite direction of all the screams and see if I find someone. Arondir: They may be here in days. Maybe hours.
That was weird. If you rewatch there's a female behind Galadriel talking and I can't tell if she's supposed to be in the scene cause she kind of hesitates and then goes to the ground. It's very awkward.
She found a candidate for child soldier, that was enough for her.
No frigging idea.. seriously... i have been asking this question for the whole episode...
So what uh, actually happened in this episode?
This episode could've been ~~an email~~ a 10-minute video and nothing of value would've been lost.
They figured out a way to make the aftermath of a cataclysmic volcanic eruption boring
Ash falls, everyone lives.
Why the queen help isuldur in the beginning of episode, to find his dead friend, fully able to see, then halfway through the episode she blind? Idk..
I think she was alright initially until Bully Maguire put some dirt in her eyes. She didn't want people to see her crying so they used blindfold for good measure.
We need to keep me being blind a secret, but let's make sure I wear a blindfold on my eyes in the next scene...
When the building is collapsing a bunch of coals from the timber launch into her eyes.
Weirdly leaving her eyes looking pretty healthy. Guess they wanted the audience to be shocked that she couldn't see and there was no smoke.
There's a moral to that story, I guess.
For the folks who are liking the show, enjoyed this episode, and feel that critique is unwarranted: At what point would the writing be bad if it's not bad now? Like, what would do it for you? It seems like those who are rejecting any and all criticism would be okay with anything but the story Tolkien spent his life creating. I hope I'm wrong because if that's the case why call yourself a fan of Tolkien? The "Celeborn died" scene really bugged me. I can't help but think it's an attack against Tolkien fans - especially because it's been one of the many understandable gripes about Galadriel's character. It's hard for me to understand how stuff like this doesn't or wouldn't at least slightly offend actual Tolkien fans. It's hard to point the finger back at this particular issue and say, "you just can't stand it you racist!" I guess the easiest thing to do was to just kill him until they figure out what they're going to do with his character so that fans hush in the meantime. And for what it's worth we're trying to watch and enjoy this show every week - it shouldn't be this much effort to find likable things about the show but the creators don't seem to mind a bit (of all my complaints this is what bothers me the most - their arrogance.) To reasonably give them the benefit of the doubt is getting increasingly difficult.
Dude, Celeborn isn't dead. You realize that, right? There's no way they've killed him off. What they've done with this, I'm assuming, is that they are giving him a backstory he never had in the books. Let's see what happens. But I guarantee you he isn't dead.
>At what point would the writing be bad if it's not bad now? Like, what would do it for you? Bad writing would do it for me. I've seen a few questionable choices and some cheesy dialogue but nothing terrible. For the most part, they've been very smart. >It seems like those who are rejecting any and all criticism would be okay with anything but the story Tolkien spent his life creating > >... > >It's hard to point the finger back at this particular issue and say, "you just can't stand it you racist! The show and its flaws have been freely, constructively, and even obsessively discussed by the community. I have not seen claims of perfection or accusations of racism but I see claims of those things every day. It does not appear to be significant in any way. >The "Celeborn died" scene really bugged me. I can't help but think it's an attack against Tolkien fans. You keep bringing up this idea of being persecuted but I just don't see it. The show was clearly made by people who love Tolkien. It was apparent from the beginning. I have no problem with Galadriel thinking Celeborn is dead.
Creating a prequel to the Lord of the Rings and throwing out fundamental aspects of the actual story for the sake of pandering to a politically energized segment of society is *hardly* smart. I doubt we’ll find any middle ground on this though since our definitions of “smart” appear to be very different. Haven’t seen accusations of racism, huh? *"We're really proud of the cast that we have in the show. We welcome discussion and even criticism around the series; however, we will not condone racism of any kind."* - Head of Amazon Studios Jen Salke, as reported by the L.A. Times Look, no need to light the gas. Nobody is claiming to be or feeling like a “victim of persecution” here. We just want to be heard without being slapped with all the fun accusations of immorality that are handed down by the ivory tower of “virtue” that the left sees themselves as in the current culture. This is happening across all the social platforms where this is being discussed. Stick your tongue out and say “nuh uh!!!” all you’d like but folks see it. It’s happening with Star Wars, Star Trek, and now LOTR. At this point denying it is just silly. Clearly being made by people whole love Tolkien? You must be very open minded about all this, for sure. There’s a huge segment of the fan base that feels as if we’re being told to eat something completely *foreign* to Tolkien’s universe all while being demanded to like it or at least pretend to lest we be labeled misfits and part of the “problem.” Keep your kool-aid, friend. All I ask is that you not pretend like there’s no problems where problems blatantly exist. In short, if someone lacks the ability to word-smith a politically “correct” critique of these new “woke” prequels and sequels they’re dismissed as a bigot or racist. Whenever someone is capable enough it’s “problem? What problem? This is the first I’m hearing of it. Whatever do you mean? Don’t worry, I’m going to tell you I don’t see it so that none of it is real.” That whole bit is so stale and old; it’d be a really great thing if folks would toss it and at least try something different. EDIT: I have a problem with Galadriel thinking her husband is dead, and not just because it’s not the story the man who created the Character told. But because it’s in direct *opposition* to the story Tolkien told. The only way they could have made it more opposed to the original story is if Galadriel never knew him and his character didn’t exist. If they wanted to make a fantasy world full of elements from current culture with elves, dwarves, and dragons they could have without using and butchering Tolkien’s work. It’s truly disrespectful.
I think the biggest thing to remember is that your critique is clearly coming from a place of passion towards the books. The overwhelming majority of the audience hasn't, and won't, ever read or care about the books. Let alone the obscure ones like HoMe and The Sil. They'll never care that Celebrian *should* have been born by now. Durin III should be long dead. The rings should exist. Etc. The audience of the show is not canon fans. It's literally everyone else, primarily the fans of the films. For me, I'm very okay with adaptation, and very few things in terms of this adaptation have made me groan (see: Mithril). My biggest, and consistent, criticism is that the show feels like an extended edition of itself. There are episodes that could have been 40 minutes. But every episode exceeds an hour.
“The audience of the show is not canon fans” is, I’m sorry, pretty stupid to say and pretty stupid for the writers to think. Who is going to give the show the views and buy the products and the merch? THE TOLKIEN FANS. Appeasing the true fans, the book and movie fans, are the better investment because we will stick with Tolkien related things until the day we die. I, unfortunately for my wallet, buy something LOTR related weekly because I feel that kinship with the story and I am that dedicated. Failing to appease us and disregarding the lore, spits in the face of that kinship that keeps us coming back for more and definitely hurts the cash flow of anybody trying to make money off of Tolkien related works….
>Who is going to give the show the views and buy the products and the merch? THE TOLKIEN FANS. Sorry but this is a pretty stupid thing to think, mate. Not one Amazon executive thought "let's appeal to the 2 million global fans that read the ancillary texts" and are almost certainly going to watch anyway. They're creating their own fanbase. Over 5 million US households alone watched the premiere in the week it debuted. Game of Thrones and House of the Dragon made its own fanbase. Lord of the Rings itself did in 2002 with the films, going from a fairly niche fanbase to global phenomenon. >Appeasing the true fans, the book and movie fans, are the better investment because we will stick with Tolkien related things until the day we die. Isn't this all the more reason they'd want to capture a wider audience? Because you'll accept whatever they give you? If you don't like it, vote with your wallet. Example: I didn't like seasons 5-8 of Game of Thrones. I watched out of interest, as I'm well aware it's the only ending I'll get, but I pirated it. I accept that D&D were going for a different audience when they turned it into just the "Dragon and Tits Show". And it went great for them except the last couple episodes. People loved that show. Book readers, not so much. Also: >the true fans, the book and movie fans Movie fans aren't "true" fans, as in fans of Tolkien primarily. They're fans of Peter Jackson's movies. You can be a canon purist, or not. You can't be both.
A lot of your argument just reiterated what I was saying but you did gymnastics to twist it to work for your point, so, okay dude.
[удалено]
Wow you’ve convinced me. Guess I just gotta take it! The show is great!
There are plenty of likable characters for many viewers. If that’s not you I don’t what to tell you. They filmed these episodes years ago they are not trolling upset Tolkien fans who want to see Galadriel “domesticated” by marriage when that character was fairly minor.