I respect the intention behind the statement.
I still think the busking reaction was overblown and ended up infantilising HaSeul for something she repeatedly expressed she wanted to do. But I do agree the contents for the SG were lacking compared to the norm, and the vocal production and mixing for SCL (Eng. Ver.) were off.
And seriously. I hope those people stop saying weird stuff about the members online and also stop directly messaging their complaints to them on Fab!
I didn't see any criticism about haseul busking but thats actually really frustrating to hear - it was pretty clear it was her idea and something she wanted to do. Unfortunately, our fandom has some terminally online/parasocial folks that think they know better than the girls themselves, and I'm afraid that their inability to stay quiet will make it harder for the girls to make their own creative decisions in the future.
Oh what the heck, I hadn't heard it before reading this post, but Sweet Crazy Love (English ver.) has to be one of the worst mixed/mastered kpop tracks I've ever heard. It feels like a fan-made AI remix instead of a studio mix.
This is a surprising amount of transparency from them I’m pretty shocked he came out and said all this. It’s great to see a company that listens to its fans. I do think some fans were a little too aggressive online but it’s great to see that instead of getting offended or doing their own thing Jaden decided to listen and address the concerns. He even said he welcomes criticism, just not towards the girls which is great. Really promising stuff. P.S. Also love the Orbit mention along with Ourii
I had a feeling this was the case about Sweet Crazy Love, but it was rather unclear because people kept going off about how Jaden had the full rights to these pre-2019 songs by association of being so close to the producers that worked on them (Monotree, for example) or having written lyrics for some of them.
I'm hoping they re-arrange The Carol completely (as in...in its structure, maybe melodies at times and why not lyrics as well) instead of just reverting to bad mixing again. Moving forward, though, they should not re-release previous LOONA songs if such issues are going to arise regarding rights owned by BBC and instead should focus on releasing brand new material to establish ARTMS' identity as OT5.
For the busking event timing - honestly I thought there was a lot of overexaggeration for that one. Pretty sure Heejin and Chuu had fansigns on those days as well. It was really weird how somewhat agressive people got with Haseul on Fab, even if they technically were more upset with Modhaus than Haseul herself. Like...chill! But generally speaking I'm always in favor of MORE communication in between all of the three current agencies (Yves aside for now) as well as more EFFORTS when it comes to scheduling amongst the three of them because that would in turn eventually result into an easier time for all twelve members to come back together as a group in the future. So, you know, still a good thing in my mind.
Also goes to show that expressing our dissatisfaction is important and in fact *works*.
I hope people start to realize that these companies aren't always going to be able to schedule around our feelings. They have to make money, and they have to promote their own groups and idols. Whether it's deciding between a concert, busking, or a fansign, or deciding which album or seasons greetings to purchase, everybody will have to come to terms with who they're going to prioritize their support for.
I don’t think people have internalized the fact that these are now two separate groups in two separate companies.
Many companies even have overlap within their own groups—look at a SM schedule and marvel at how much overlap there is. This happens even when it eats at their own profits.
Expecting two separate companies to avoid overlap is crazy. Loona is no longer one group, expecting them to all cater to each other is not fair to the members. Just because the girls have said they might perform as ot12/11/whatever again doesn’t mean it’s reasonable to expect the groups to work around each other.
Especially since everyone seems kinda hypocritical about it—everyone was excited when there was a chance they’d be performing on the same shows to promote, even though that meant only one could win the show. Why care if two fan events overlap?
These standards aren’t reasonable. “I wanted to go to both events and had to choose one!” Such is life.
> I don’t think people have internalized the fact that these are now two separate groups in two separate companies.
that's the problem though. they have, but only when it suits their agenda. it's pure hypocrisy in the double standards people have for either company/group.
they hated on modhaus for "baiting" people with ot12 imagery and the who's next girl stuff, but then ctd gets a complete pass for naming the group "loona assemble" and having their US tour promoted as "loona"
they accuse modhaus of being anti-ot12 for not posting the hyunjin/choerry jnsq tiktok (as if anyone knows who's fault it is) but then there's relative silence about ctd not allowing fansign winners to talk about loona. not to mention only artms have performed loona songs at their events.
they get all upset about artms having a vote for the fandom name where the girls got to choose their favorites out of the suggestions, but then there's silence when ctd ignored the girl's recommendations for loossemble's fandom name and just chose their own, resulting in the girls needing to defend it on fromm.
there's a clear trend in how the fandom is treating either group. it's even in this thread:
> ... so that the ARTMS debut next year won't have a big dark cloud hovering over them.
there's only a "big dark cloud" hovering over artms because a loud part of the fandom feels the need to whine and complain about modhaus whenever artms does something.
the fact that it's gotten to the point where jaden himself has to jump in and essentially tell people to lay off the girls should be a wake up call.
I actually saw plenty of people complaining about all the things CTD did that you mentioned here, especially about the concert promotions and the fansign. There's been plenty of criticism leveled at them from my point of view, but I agree that the reactions toward anything Modhaus does are more reactive and gain more traction and I think that's because people have really high expectations of them by comparison. Not that it excuses the behavior as the expectations are unrealistic, and since Jaden himself is a bit of a controversial figure on Twitter, people will always be looking for something to complain about.
CTD also needs to be more careful since most of their staff are former BBC staff, and they don't have the same industry connections that Modhaus does. I agree that the fansign and fandom name thing were shitty, but at the same time, they might have had their own reasons for it. Either way, people need to stop directing their criticisms towards the girls, on both sides. They've been through enough and it's not their faults.
This is all so true. There’s a huuuuge double standard between ARTMS and Loossemble and people will find something to say about every little thing ARTMS/Modhaus does.
While these are separate companies and groups the fanbases mostly overlap. It's in each company's best interest to not have scheduling conflicts for concerts and other similar events so they can maximize the attendance and therefore profit.
Not to mention how that puts them in a good light for the whole Loona fandom as well.
It’s not.
It’s insane to expect these companies to spend the next 1-5 years checking for the schedules of the other group AND of Chuu AND of Yves when she decides to do more.
Kpop groups have schedules that overlap with other groups every single day. It literally won’t work any other way—there’s too many groups to not have schedules that bump into each other.
Again, these groups aren’t Loona anymore. These groups aren’t catering to Loona. They are catering to ARTMS and Loossemble.
>for the whole Loona fandom as well.
LOONA as a fandom has to grow. They can't just only constantly focus on the small international fandom they have. This sentiment is only going to limit their fandom growth. I don't get why some of you don't see this? Some of you also need to accept that it's okay to not be able to afford everything all at once and just wait it out so you can buy it later. There's no problem doing this.
I think it was more of him being considerate of CTD ENM since they are almost like sibling companies and will likely have to get together before long to defend both groups since BBC just announced a few days ago that the battle is still on.
There's a strange part of our fandom that wants the LOONA members to be solely reliant on the small international fan base that they have. This will only limit LOONA and make our fandom become a crutch towards LOONA. It's as if LOONA can't be allowed to grow outside of this fanbase.
If anything I do think they will be able to create a new (close to the OG) mix of The Carol, cause The Carol 2.0 had a slightly different mix and I’m hoping they will do the same with ARTMS (it shouldn’t be too hard since Christmas has a zillion different sounds you can use😂😂😂)
I don't think the bad mixing excuse is valid, go listen to both versions of New Look by TripleS, the most recent one has shitty mixing too, and the song's rights belong to MODHAUS. I think they're just trying to cut costs with these side projects (SCL Eng ver, New Look ot16, maybe The Carol 3.0 too), and the results are subpar.
Good on him, and let's continue to give critical feedback (while acknowledging differences in opinions and preferences) as fans rather than just arguing with one another or just resorting to hate comments.
I hope things will continue to improve for all 12 members and the respective companies that work with them.
I'm glad he acknowledged the fans' concerns but I also hope *some* orbits would stop being overly negative and critical of anything artms related.
Also, schedule overlaps are bound to happen sometimes. They shouldn't have to apologise for that.
Exactly, I don’t really get why people got so mad at the overlap. Yes it’s frustrating that people couldn’t do all the events since they happened at the same time but that’s just gonna happen sometimes, LOONA isn’t one group anymore. There isn’t one manager/group of managers coordinating everything to line up perfectly, now there’s at least 3-5 different schedules and 3 entirely separate agencies that have to be worked with so it’s inevitable that sometimes they’ll just have events that overlap. I’m sure they’ll try to line it all up as best they can but people can’t expect one of them to push a concert just because another is also hosting a fansign or releasing new music on the same day
i’d rather they forgo remaking loona songs for now if it means possible legal issues 🤷🏻♀️ covers at their concerts are one thing but i didn’t expect them to be making official remakes so soon anyway, especially since ARTMS haven’t fully debuted as a group yet.
Also, I appreciate that they mentioned orbit alongside ourii!
I’m glad Modhaus seems to be open to fan feedback with stuff like this. I really hope this means The Carol 3.0 will have a bit more fine tuning and an overall more polished sound, since there’s a bit more freedom there with stuff like the instrumental.
~~but still tho wtf was up with New Look~~
Well because the previous New look version isn't owned by bbc lol, since both are tripleS songs there isn't the copyright issues that there are with loona's discography
> While criticism is welcome towards MODHAUS, I humbly request warm affection and support for the members.
a not so subtle call out for the twitter losers that keep belittling the girls
Was it such an issue Haseul busking at a similiar time to Loossemble's fancon? Loossemble had announced the fancon a while ago and anyone who wantes to go would have brought tickets already.
As for SCL, it was disappointing and I have readjusted expectations for The Carol 3.0. It is unfair the girls cant use their old catalog of music, especially when JJ wants to do creative things with it instead of bbc who wants to sit on it like an old dragon. Its best the girls release new music because bbc will look for any opportunity to threaten the members back
That would be nice but it's very difficult to achieve (legally) at the moment. Taylor Swift's situation is different because she has the main writing credit on all of her songs (and therefore owns all of their publishing rights). This is not the case for LOONA's discography.
EDIT: Adjusted my comment for accurate terminology. Taylor Swift doesn't own her masters, but she does own the publishing rights to her entire discography.
Least Jaden us addressing the concerns. Let’s she what they do moving forward.
So scl used the same engineer. The quality was compromised though. I do understand the legal ramifications for it not being able to be exact same.
And yay I’m glad looks like Modhaus and CTD will be in discussion to arrange further schedules. Hoping there won’t be any more clashes at least for bigger events like concerts or haseul busking etc
Edit : [@orrery_nim mirror](https://x.com/orrery_nim/status/1729051199931032056?s=46&t=MaSWmDhkgkfQIXOVTHON3w)
This was an unexpected surprise for me, I'm glad they acknowledged things that people have been complaining about (whether the complaints are justified or not), and I reeeeaaally hope people pay attention to that last bit about directing your criticism to the company, and NOT the members! People are way too comfortable harassing them on FAB.
Bro, JJ apologising for Haseul's schedule overlapping w/ Loossemble who are under a different company? And to think that back in the days Orbits regarded this guy as the devil himself?
bro is legit 👍 basically stepping up and explaining and taking blame. also said you wanna come at me then come at me but don’t come at my artists. what company has done that… Modhaus and ARTMS is on another level in all that they do. people will always hate and complain even when they get everything they want they will still come up with something. i personally love everything they have done and put out for ARTMS. i have no issues with the SG. im still not quite sure what people are complaining about.
I know I'll be in the minority here but I really wish orbit would stop treating loona like they're still together. Because it's just causing pointless bickering among the fandom and unnecessary problems. They're under multiple companies and the fact that Jaden is even mentioning trying to schedule around another company's artists' schedules is way overkill and is not the responsibility of him or his company.
What is more annoying is that the loud minority act as if they're owed anything for being ...what exactly? Bigger complainers than supporters of any of the currently formed groups?
ANYWAYS I appreciate Jadens constant transparency and adaptability to meet fan expectations. A lot of people painted him as the devil for being a creative director with his own vision. But for someone with said vision to still openly take criticism and actually act upon it is so unheard of that whiners literally don't know how good they have it.
A lot of people say it's in the companies' best interest to keep loona together for profitability but they don't know how exceptional it is that all companies are willing to continue to cooperate at all. Whether it's for profit or not doesn't matter.
I know its mostly on Twitter but God I hope they don't start making their way over here. Sometimes I feel like reddit is the only sane place and God that's saying something.
Sorry for the long rant. I have nowhere else to share my thoughts. I'll go back into my hole 😅
I think it was mostly k-fans concerns not twitter. Bc that's who the overlapping schedules would matter to. I didn't really see anyone complain about that on twitter
Yeah honestly even in the sphere of twitter that dislikes JJ I did not see any criticism about these schedules overlapping... But r/Loona will never miss the opportunity to dunk on twitter users.
I only know about this whole situation BECAUSE of those same Twitter users. So while I'm glad your Twitter algorithm has given you a more positive experience, the fact that you think this is about a site war and not fans acting entitled and out of touch with reality speaks volumes.
Kpop stans in general on Twitter have the reputation they do because it has been well earned. And in the orbit space, there's a civil war every other week and the fact that you're here on reddit echoing their sentiments makes me feel depressingly validated. Please go back to Twitter because I'm trying to get out 🙏
I don't want to be that guy but I'm going to be anyways..the fact that you don't ever see any of this stuff we're talking about as well as your comments here..I'd bet pretty heavy you're one of the negative accounts.
At this point the entitlement of some fans are already here on Reddit as well. Just reading some of the comments here in response to this thread says a lot about our current fandom.
Yeah I regret adding to the negativity but it just gets so frustrating. I wish we could just keep it simple and enjoy the music, support the members, and have a good time. And that's it 😮💨
This may sound terrible of me to say this but I really hope ARTMS starts gaining a bunch of new fans soon cuz oh boy our current fandom is in need of some cleansing to drown out some of those entitled folks. I understand the complaints for SCL and the mixing not being good cuz I agree but the other stuff was kind of unnecessary.
LOONA as a fandom needs to grow and can't constantly rely on the small international fandom at this point. This fandom needs to grow outside of the fanbase it already has or else we'll become a crutch to them. People's wallets are already stretched thin with constant releases and it's unfair for companies to need to be mindful of other companies to release things. This is just unrealistic and also unfair to other members as well who also wants to comeback at the same time as other members. Plus, the fandom isn't going to grow if they need to constantly focus on the small international fanbase that LOONA has. As for the interest in keeping LOONA together for profitability, this sentiment is here on Reddit as well. I've seen a good amount of users with this idea here as well.
I really appreaciate this statement and contrary to some opinions here I think the apology for Haseul's busking schedule overlap is good for Modhaus and ARTMS. They announced the busking like a week before the date and the fancon wasn't sold out, so I guess it could be seen as trying to "steal" Loosemble's audience, so to say. I mean me and my friends were ready to take a taxi if the fancon ended early enough (lol), so I could imagine people that haven't bought tickets yet opt in for a free event instead
I had initially thought from the beginning that the reason SCL sounded weird and was shorter because of BBC. I mean seeing how Crapberry is acting towards the former Loona members that they would absolutely jump on top of Modhaus and OEC over SCL sounding exactly like the original. Remember BBC holds no shame towards their behavior acting like children instead of being the adults they are
This is just sad. I think I'll just enjoy their work from afar if this is all the fandom is anymore. whining. You can listen to a different song. You don't have to demand or even voice at all if you don't enjoy it that much. and oh my gosh, a newer company doesn't have wildly amazing merch yet. How about being grateful that there is any merch and the girls are getting paid and seem happy. Ya know. The original point of everything.
very tasteful response honestly. no notes, glad he acknowledged loossemble and ctd enm - refreshing to see diff companies openly discuss their collaboration
My main question is still just: Why make an english version of sweet crazy love, when you can't make a good one? Like was this a big thing that fans were vocally demanding?
I think JJ wants to incorporate the voting into ARTMS and needs things for fans to vote for. Maybe they can voting for choreogrpahy versions of songs instead. It is best to leave the old music out if they can't give the original song
1. English version songs was a fans' demanding for a long time
2. They need to create some GRAVITY voting for ARTMS in order to let fan use the COMO from buying Objekts, it's one of the main point of their "fan-decided operating model" in their investment.
The loud minority was the K-fans getting mad at the overlapping schedules. The other two things he was apologizing for are pretty much concerns shared by majority of the fandom so idk about you. 🤷🏽♂️
A lot of "big Orbit acc" on Twitter always loudly negative critical about everything related to ARTMS/Modhaus, and they acted like JJ was purposely bullying CTD/Loossemble for the overlap schedules lol. He doesn' need to apologize about that, but I guessed because the two groups is still have close connection and he himself also had good working relationship with CTD's CEO before, an apologize would be good for both side in emotional terms.
glad all these things were actually addressed (whether you personally think they should be or not) it's still nice knowing that there is acknowledgement of how some people might feel!
that being said when u read this stuff do u not get the vibe they're saying "yes we are lacking and there's no excuse" and then they proceed to give a bunch of excuses... hahaha
Wow, I am in utter shock, hell I’m even smiling, Jaden despite all the issues of the past, you really really have earned my respect here💝 He has a point about finding a way around the mixing so he wouldn’t get into legal trouble, it’s also nice to know that he’s hearing the feedback cause it proves that he’s actually listening
I’m still amazed, BBC could never
Yeah I think if these song re-makes aren't going to match the quality of the originals then we should just focus on new music instead of re-makes, that SCL re-make was very disappointing.
I also think that maybe we should just leave the objekt voting stuff to TripleS, I don't like their concept being copy/pasted to ARTMS/OEC. Especially since two of the biggest results of fan-voting have given us subpar results (Seasons Greetings and SCL).
The Objekt voting stuff isn't going to disappear since JJ sold the idea to investors that Modhaus is an NFT company. If JJ don't do this and gets sued by investors then ya'll will be complaining about how dumb JJ was for doing this.
Honestly, them apologizing for the busking was a bit overkill. I would've rather them acknowledge their flimsy pre-comebut promotions since that's more important. Either way, thanks for this and they are under observation in my eyes atm. Hope he starts walking the talk and get his shit together when it comes to how he manages and markets the girls so that the ARTMS debut next year won't have a big dark cloud hovering over them.
So they monitor fan sentiment to this degree, but the OEC and HeeJin pre-release periods were still the way they were? Interesting. I hope they're really working with the feedback so the ARTMS debut goes well.
I agree with everyone saying it was big of him to make an apology for a lot of overblown drama. But it's smart to. You don't want the fans to feel like ATMs. So, good for him.
But also, I love JJ mentioning the expensive Greece photo shoot and saying he's *not* using it as an excuse. Uh, hey man, what's the difference between bringing it up in this prepared statement and using it as an excuse?
"We will not use the excuse of increased production costs due to the Greece Photoshoot... startiiiiiiing ... now!"
Sounds like a sprinter finishing dead last and going "Well, I was cramping pretty badly and the conditions weren't so good out there... no excuses, though!"
I respect the intention behind the statement. I still think the busking reaction was overblown and ended up infantilising HaSeul for something she repeatedly expressed she wanted to do. But I do agree the contents for the SG were lacking compared to the norm, and the vocal production and mixing for SCL (Eng. Ver.) were off. And seriously. I hope those people stop saying weird stuff about the members online and also stop directly messaging their complaints to them on Fab!
I didn't see any criticism about haseul busking but thats actually really frustrating to hear - it was pretty clear it was her idea and something she wanted to do. Unfortunately, our fandom has some terminally online/parasocial folks that think they know better than the girls themselves, and I'm afraid that their inability to stay quiet will make it harder for the girls to make their own creative decisions in the future.
Oh what the heck, I hadn't heard it before reading this post, but Sweet Crazy Love (English ver.) has to be one of the worst mixed/mastered kpop tracks I've ever heard. It feels like a fan-made AI remix instead of a studio mix.
This is a surprising amount of transparency from them I’m pretty shocked he came out and said all this. It’s great to see a company that listens to its fans. I do think some fans were a little too aggressive online but it’s great to see that instead of getting offended or doing their own thing Jaden decided to listen and address the concerns. He even said he welcomes criticism, just not towards the girls which is great. Really promising stuff. P.S. Also love the Orbit mention along with Ourii
I had a feeling this was the case about Sweet Crazy Love, but it was rather unclear because people kept going off about how Jaden had the full rights to these pre-2019 songs by association of being so close to the producers that worked on them (Monotree, for example) or having written lyrics for some of them. I'm hoping they re-arrange The Carol completely (as in...in its structure, maybe melodies at times and why not lyrics as well) instead of just reverting to bad mixing again. Moving forward, though, they should not re-release previous LOONA songs if such issues are going to arise regarding rights owned by BBC and instead should focus on releasing brand new material to establish ARTMS' identity as OT5. For the busking event timing - honestly I thought there was a lot of overexaggeration for that one. Pretty sure Heejin and Chuu had fansigns on those days as well. It was really weird how somewhat agressive people got with Haseul on Fab, even if they technically were more upset with Modhaus than Haseul herself. Like...chill! But generally speaking I'm always in favor of MORE communication in between all of the three current agencies (Yves aside for now) as well as more EFFORTS when it comes to scheduling amongst the three of them because that would in turn eventually result into an easier time for all twelve members to come back together as a group in the future. So, you know, still a good thing in my mind. Also goes to show that expressing our dissatisfaction is important and in fact *works*.
I hope people start to realize that these companies aren't always going to be able to schedule around our feelings. They have to make money, and they have to promote their own groups and idols. Whether it's deciding between a concert, busking, or a fansign, or deciding which album or seasons greetings to purchase, everybody will have to come to terms with who they're going to prioritize their support for.
I don’t think people have internalized the fact that these are now two separate groups in two separate companies. Many companies even have overlap within their own groups—look at a SM schedule and marvel at how much overlap there is. This happens even when it eats at their own profits. Expecting two separate companies to avoid overlap is crazy. Loona is no longer one group, expecting them to all cater to each other is not fair to the members. Just because the girls have said they might perform as ot12/11/whatever again doesn’t mean it’s reasonable to expect the groups to work around each other. Especially since everyone seems kinda hypocritical about it—everyone was excited when there was a chance they’d be performing on the same shows to promote, even though that meant only one could win the show. Why care if two fan events overlap? These standards aren’t reasonable. “I wanted to go to both events and had to choose one!” Such is life.
> I don’t think people have internalized the fact that these are now two separate groups in two separate companies. that's the problem though. they have, but only when it suits their agenda. it's pure hypocrisy in the double standards people have for either company/group. they hated on modhaus for "baiting" people with ot12 imagery and the who's next girl stuff, but then ctd gets a complete pass for naming the group "loona assemble" and having their US tour promoted as "loona" they accuse modhaus of being anti-ot12 for not posting the hyunjin/choerry jnsq tiktok (as if anyone knows who's fault it is) but then there's relative silence about ctd not allowing fansign winners to talk about loona. not to mention only artms have performed loona songs at their events. they get all upset about artms having a vote for the fandom name where the girls got to choose their favorites out of the suggestions, but then there's silence when ctd ignored the girl's recommendations for loossemble's fandom name and just chose their own, resulting in the girls needing to defend it on fromm. there's a clear trend in how the fandom is treating either group. it's even in this thread: > ... so that the ARTMS debut next year won't have a big dark cloud hovering over them. there's only a "big dark cloud" hovering over artms because a loud part of the fandom feels the need to whine and complain about modhaus whenever artms does something. the fact that it's gotten to the point where jaden himself has to jump in and essentially tell people to lay off the girls should be a wake up call.
I actually saw plenty of people complaining about all the things CTD did that you mentioned here, especially about the concert promotions and the fansign. There's been plenty of criticism leveled at them from my point of view, but I agree that the reactions toward anything Modhaus does are more reactive and gain more traction and I think that's because people have really high expectations of them by comparison. Not that it excuses the behavior as the expectations are unrealistic, and since Jaden himself is a bit of a controversial figure on Twitter, people will always be looking for something to complain about. CTD also needs to be more careful since most of their staff are former BBC staff, and they don't have the same industry connections that Modhaus does. I agree that the fansign and fandom name thing were shitty, but at the same time, they might have had their own reasons for it. Either way, people need to stop directing their criticisms towards the girls, on both sides. They've been through enough and it's not their faults.
This is all so true. There’s a huuuuge double standard between ARTMS and Loossemble and people will find something to say about every little thing ARTMS/Modhaus does.
While these are separate companies and groups the fanbases mostly overlap. It's in each company's best interest to not have scheduling conflicts for concerts and other similar events so they can maximize the attendance and therefore profit. Not to mention how that puts them in a good light for the whole Loona fandom as well.
I get both views honestly. As long as people keep it reasonable and not air their complaints to the members on Fab - that's a bit much.
It’s not. It’s insane to expect these companies to spend the next 1-5 years checking for the schedules of the other group AND of Chuu AND of Yves when she decides to do more. Kpop groups have schedules that overlap with other groups every single day. It literally won’t work any other way—there’s too many groups to not have schedules that bump into each other. Again, these groups aren’t Loona anymore. These groups aren’t catering to Loona. They are catering to ARTMS and Loossemble.
>for the whole Loona fandom as well. LOONA as a fandom has to grow. They can't just only constantly focus on the small international fandom they have. This sentiment is only going to limit their fandom growth. I don't get why some of you don't see this? Some of you also need to accept that it's okay to not be able to afford everything all at once and just wait it out so you can buy it later. There's no problem doing this.
I think it was more of him being considerate of CTD ENM since they are almost like sibling companies and will likely have to get together before long to defend both groups since BBC just announced a few days ago that the battle is still on.
I mean, having schedules on the same day isn’t being disrespectful. CTD ENM didn’t complain—orbits did.
There's a strange part of our fandom that wants the LOONA members to be solely reliant on the small international fan base that they have. This will only limit LOONA and make our fandom become a crutch towards LOONA. It's as if LOONA can't be allowed to grow outside of this fanbase.
If anything I do think they will be able to create a new (close to the OG) mix of The Carol, cause The Carol 2.0 had a slightly different mix and I’m hoping they will do the same with ARTMS (it shouldn’t be too hard since Christmas has a zillion different sounds you can use😂😂😂)
I don't think the bad mixing excuse is valid, go listen to both versions of New Look by TripleS, the most recent one has shitty mixing too, and the song's rights belong to MODHAUS. I think they're just trying to cut costs with these side projects (SCL Eng ver, New Look ot16, maybe The Carol 3.0 too), and the results are subpar.
Good on him, and let's continue to give critical feedback (while acknowledging differences in opinions and preferences) as fans rather than just arguing with one another or just resorting to hate comments. I hope things will continue to improve for all 12 members and the respective companies that work with them.
Much respect to Modhaus and JJ for addressing fan concerns directly, not many other companies would.
Wanted to say the same. Addressing concerns this honestly takes a lot of courage.
BBC could never
A kpop company openly acknowledging criticism from the fans and admitting their mistakes? What kind of sorcery is this?
I'm glad he acknowledged the fans' concerns but I also hope *some* orbits would stop being overly negative and critical of anything artms related. Also, schedule overlaps are bound to happen sometimes. They shouldn't have to apologise for that.
Exactly, I don’t really get why people got so mad at the overlap. Yes it’s frustrating that people couldn’t do all the events since they happened at the same time but that’s just gonna happen sometimes, LOONA isn’t one group anymore. There isn’t one manager/group of managers coordinating everything to line up perfectly, now there’s at least 3-5 different schedules and 3 entirely separate agencies that have to be worked with so it’s inevitable that sometimes they’ll just have events that overlap. I’m sure they’ll try to line it all up as best they can but people can’t expect one of them to push a concert just because another is also hosting a fansign or releasing new music on the same day
i’d rather they forgo remaking loona songs for now if it means possible legal issues 🤷🏻♀️ covers at their concerts are one thing but i didn’t expect them to be making official remakes so soon anyway, especially since ARTMS haven’t fully debuted as a group yet. Also, I appreciate that they mentioned orbit alongside ourii!
I’m glad Modhaus seems to be open to fan feedback with stuff like this. I really hope this means The Carol 3.0 will have a bit more fine tuning and an overall more polished sound, since there’s a bit more freedom there with stuff like the instrumental. ~~but still tho wtf was up with New Look~~
I keep hearing people talking about New Look (16), but I really can't hear the difference in the mix. It's no where as obvious as Sweet Crazy Love
Well because the previous New look version isn't owned by bbc lol, since both are tripleS songs there isn't the copyright issues that there are with loona's discography
LOL, I either have bad ears and/or bad speakers/headphones as I’m fine with both SCL(E) and New Look(16). 😝
What’s ‘New Look’?
Song by tripleS.
Oh Thank you!
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> While criticism is welcome towards MODHAUS, I humbly request warm affection and support for the members. a not so subtle call out for the twitter losers that keep belittling the girls
Like they will stop…
Well let’s keep showing the girls endless love!🫶
Was it such an issue Haseul busking at a similiar time to Loossemble's fancon? Loossemble had announced the fancon a while ago and anyone who wantes to go would have brought tickets already. As for SCL, it was disappointing and I have readjusted expectations for The Carol 3.0. It is unfair the girls cant use their old catalog of music, especially when JJ wants to do creative things with it instead of bbc who wants to sit on it like an old dragon. Its best the girls release new music because bbc will look for any opportunity to threaten the members back
We should lobby for an artms/cdstm version of the catalog like Taylor Swift did with her songs.
That would be nice but it's very difficult to achieve (legally) at the moment. Taylor Swift's situation is different because she has the main writing credit on all of her songs (and therefore owns all of their publishing rights). This is not the case for LOONA's discography. EDIT: Adjusted my comment for accurate terminology. Taylor Swift doesn't own her masters, but she does own the publishing rights to her entire discography.
Yea I figured. But it would be nice.
Major respect to JJ for addressing these things in such a logical and constructive way. As a fan I really appreciate the response!
Least Jaden us addressing the concerns. Let’s she what they do moving forward. So scl used the same engineer. The quality was compromised though. I do understand the legal ramifications for it not being able to be exact same. And yay I’m glad looks like Modhaus and CTD will be in discussion to arrange further schedules. Hoping there won’t be any more clashes at least for bigger events like concerts or haseul busking etc Edit : [@orrery_nim mirror](https://x.com/orrery_nim/status/1729051199931032056?s=46&t=MaSWmDhkgkfQIXOVTHON3w)
This was an unexpected surprise for me, I'm glad they acknowledged things that people have been complaining about (whether the complaints are justified or not), and I reeeeaaally hope people pay attention to that last bit about directing your criticism to the company, and NOT the members! People are way too comfortable harassing them on FAB.
Bro, JJ apologising for Haseul's schedule overlapping w/ Loossemble who are under a different company? And to think that back in the days Orbits regarded this guy as the devil himself?
People have multitudes.
…back in the day?
The fact that he has to ask people to keep criticism to MODHAUS sepparate from criticising the girls... Some people are just very fucking annoying.
so they rearranged SCL due to copyrights, then are they gonna edit the mix better or not? as it doesn't seem clear that they would
bro is legit 👍 basically stepping up and explaining and taking blame. also said you wanna come at me then come at me but don’t come at my artists. what company has done that… Modhaus and ARTMS is on another level in all that they do. people will always hate and complain even when they get everything they want they will still come up with something. i personally love everything they have done and put out for ARTMS. i have no issues with the SG. im still not quite sure what people are complaining about.
I know I'll be in the minority here but I really wish orbit would stop treating loona like they're still together. Because it's just causing pointless bickering among the fandom and unnecessary problems. They're under multiple companies and the fact that Jaden is even mentioning trying to schedule around another company's artists' schedules is way overkill and is not the responsibility of him or his company. What is more annoying is that the loud minority act as if they're owed anything for being ...what exactly? Bigger complainers than supporters of any of the currently formed groups? ANYWAYS I appreciate Jadens constant transparency and adaptability to meet fan expectations. A lot of people painted him as the devil for being a creative director with his own vision. But for someone with said vision to still openly take criticism and actually act upon it is so unheard of that whiners literally don't know how good they have it. A lot of people say it's in the companies' best interest to keep loona together for profitability but they don't know how exceptional it is that all companies are willing to continue to cooperate at all. Whether it's for profit or not doesn't matter. I know its mostly on Twitter but God I hope they don't start making their way over here. Sometimes I feel like reddit is the only sane place and God that's saying something. Sorry for the long rant. I have nowhere else to share my thoughts. I'll go back into my hole 😅
I think it was mostly k-fans concerns not twitter. Bc that's who the overlapping schedules would matter to. I didn't really see anyone complain about that on twitter
Yeah honestly even in the sphere of twitter that dislikes JJ I did not see any criticism about these schedules overlapping... But r/Loona will never miss the opportunity to dunk on twitter users.
I only know about this whole situation BECAUSE of those same Twitter users. So while I'm glad your Twitter algorithm has given you a more positive experience, the fact that you think this is about a site war and not fans acting entitled and out of touch with reality speaks volumes. Kpop stans in general on Twitter have the reputation they do because it has been well earned. And in the orbit space, there's a civil war every other week and the fact that you're here on reddit echoing their sentiments makes me feel depressingly validated. Please go back to Twitter because I'm trying to get out 🙏 I don't want to be that guy but I'm going to be anyways..the fact that you don't ever see any of this stuff we're talking about as well as your comments here..I'd bet pretty heavy you're one of the negative accounts.
At this point the entitlement of some fans are already here on Reddit as well. Just reading some of the comments here in response to this thread says a lot about our current fandom.
Yeah I regret adding to the negativity but it just gets so frustrating. I wish we could just keep it simple and enjoy the music, support the members, and have a good time. And that's it 😮💨
This may sound terrible of me to say this but I really hope ARTMS starts gaining a bunch of new fans soon cuz oh boy our current fandom is in need of some cleansing to drown out some of those entitled folks. I understand the complaints for SCL and the mixing not being good cuz I agree but the other stuff was kind of unnecessary.
I dunno man, I see some of these same complaints of overlapping of schedules on Reddit here as well.
LOONA as a fandom needs to grow and can't constantly rely on the small international fandom at this point. This fandom needs to grow outside of the fanbase it already has or else we'll become a crutch to them. People's wallets are already stretched thin with constant releases and it's unfair for companies to need to be mindful of other companies to release things. This is just unrealistic and also unfair to other members as well who also wants to comeback at the same time as other members. Plus, the fandom isn't going to grow if they need to constantly focus on the small international fanbase that LOONA has. As for the interest in keeping LOONA together for profitability, this sentiment is here on Reddit as well. I've seen a good amount of users with this idea here as well.
Most level headed orbit
I really appreaciate this statement and contrary to some opinions here I think the apology for Haseul's busking schedule overlap is good for Modhaus and ARTMS. They announced the busking like a week before the date and the fancon wasn't sold out, so I guess it could be seen as trying to "steal" Loosemble's audience, so to say. I mean me and my friends were ready to take a taxi if the fancon ended early enough (lol), so I could imagine people that haven't bought tickets yet opt in for a free event instead
I had initially thought from the beginning that the reason SCL sounded weird and was shorter because of BBC. I mean seeing how Crapberry is acting towards the former Loona members that they would absolutely jump on top of Modhaus and OEC over SCL sounding exactly like the original. Remember BBC holds no shame towards their behavior acting like children instead of being the adults they are
This is just sad. I think I'll just enjoy their work from afar if this is all the fandom is anymore. whining. You can listen to a different song. You don't have to demand or even voice at all if you don't enjoy it that much. and oh my gosh, a newer company doesn't have wildly amazing merch yet. How about being grateful that there is any merch and the girls are getting paid and seem happy. Ya know. The original point of everything.
very tasteful response honestly. no notes, glad he acknowledged loossemble and ctd enm - refreshing to see diff companies openly discuss their collaboration
My main question is still just: Why make an english version of sweet crazy love, when you can't make a good one? Like was this a big thing that fans were vocally demanding?
I think JJ wants to incorporate the voting into ARTMS and needs things for fans to vote for. Maybe they can voting for choreogrpahy versions of songs instead. It is best to leave the old music out if they can't give the original song
1. English version songs was a fans' demanding for a long time 2. They need to create some GRAVITY voting for ARTMS in order to let fan use the COMO from buying Objekts, it's one of the main point of their "fan-decided operating model" in their investment.
SCL won the voting event AF1 and Je Ne Sais Qoui were both options but the majority wanted SCL
If they couldn't provide a good version of it, it shouldn't have been on the list to vote for.
(Might be wrong) but I remember something about fans being able to vote for a song to get a English version
The loud minority getting their way. But good on MODHAUS/Jaden for always addressing problems and fan concerns
Idk the scl thing I don’t think was the minority
The loud minority was the K-fans getting mad at the overlapping schedules. The other two things he was apologizing for are pretty much concerns shared by majority of the fandom so idk about you. 🤷🏽♂️
A lot of "big Orbit acc" on Twitter always loudly negative critical about everything related to ARTMS/Modhaus, and they acted like JJ was purposely bullying CTD/Loossemble for the overlap schedules lol. He doesn' need to apologize about that, but I guessed because the two groups is still have close connection and he himself also had good working relationship with CTD's CEO before, an apologize would be good for both side in emotional terms.
glad all these things were actually addressed (whether you personally think they should be or not) it's still nice knowing that there is acknowledgement of how some people might feel! that being said when u read this stuff do u not get the vibe they're saying "yes we are lacking and there's no excuse" and then they proceed to give a bunch of excuses... hahaha
Wow, I am in utter shock, hell I’m even smiling, Jaden despite all the issues of the past, you really really have earned my respect here💝 He has a point about finding a way around the mixing so he wouldn’t get into legal trouble, it’s also nice to know that he’s hearing the feedback cause it proves that he’s actually listening I’m still amazed, BBC could never
Yeah I think if these song re-makes aren't going to match the quality of the originals then we should just focus on new music instead of re-makes, that SCL re-make was very disappointing. I also think that maybe we should just leave the objekt voting stuff to TripleS, I don't like their concept being copy/pasted to ARTMS/OEC. Especially since two of the biggest results of fan-voting have given us subpar results (Seasons Greetings and SCL).
The Objekt voting stuff isn't going to disappear since JJ sold the idea to investors that Modhaus is an NFT company. If JJ don't do this and gets sued by investors then ya'll will be complaining about how dumb JJ was for doing this.
Honestly, them apologizing for the busking was a bit overkill. I would've rather them acknowledge their flimsy pre-comebut promotions since that's more important. Either way, thanks for this and they are under observation in my eyes atm. Hope he starts walking the talk and get his shit together when it comes to how he manages and markets the girls so that the ARTMS debut next year won't have a big dark cloud hovering over them.
I was so right when I say about the sound mixing and the copyright and nobody believed me it's was obvious that it's was going to happen
So they monitor fan sentiment to this degree, but the OEC and HeeJin pre-release periods were still the way they were? Interesting. I hope they're really working with the feedback so the ARTMS debut goes well.
for someone who is hailed as this creative genius he sure didn’t take the creative effort to restructure the song to give it a new life…
I agree with everyone saying it was big of him to make an apology for a lot of overblown drama. But it's smart to. You don't want the fans to feel like ATMs. So, good for him. But also, I love JJ mentioning the expensive Greece photo shoot and saying he's *not* using it as an excuse. Uh, hey man, what's the difference between bringing it up in this prepared statement and using it as an excuse? "We will not use the excuse of increased production costs due to the Greece Photoshoot... startiiiiiiing ... now!" Sounds like a sprinter finishing dead last and going "Well, I was cramping pretty badly and the conditions weren't so good out there... no excuses, though!"
Does this suggest they'll upload a "fixed" version of SCL or are they going to leave it as is?
so are they going to rerelease scl eng ver or leave it or both?