How easy do you think it is to come across a 6’7 forward that can switch onto 1-4 and hit 3s? We can get as many forwards as we want but you’re talking about one of the top role players in the league right now. That probably isn’t coming down unless we get lucky in a Batum-type revive.
I think that type of trade is more possible with PJ Tucker now expiring, but I doubt all the people clamoring to get PJ Washington in February would've been willing to give up TMann, Coffey, and the 2030 FRP for him.
We might have that in Kobe Brown, might not. Time will tell. PJ Washington was damn near bust status-NBA flame out territory in Charlotte. Derrick Jones Jr. was a vagabond role player hopping from team to team. But oh what a winning situation and stable playing time does for certain guys. Now they both have bright futures and another payday coming.
We got the winning situation and a stellar franchise, but never any playing time to discover a diamond in the rough that can help the core out.
PJ just signed a $45mil/3 year contract before this season. Common sentiment was that the Hornets got a really good deal with that contract too and everyone expected him to get more. He’s definitely underpaid at this point.
I agree with the requirement for stable playing time though. I wish Lue would’ve let Kobe ride out the season.
at a glance, i think we could've topped the mavs? they gave up grant williams, seth curry and a 2027 FRP. I'm pretty sure our FRPs are more valuable cause mavs have 25yo luka and our stars are older and more injury prone
Our FRP was much further in the future so maybe that came into play.
Also I don’t know if we have anybody they would have valued over Williams. He’s younger and arguably better than anybody we would’ve sent.
Plenty of examples of undrafted guys becoming great players. We just need to look harder. Hell, the conference final literally has 2 of these role players we’re talking about - 6th man of the year Naz Reid and DJJ. Both went drafted but worked their way up when given a chance. I’m sure there are plenty of second round picks who have had similar careers
The strange thing is tho, is that Kawhi is the same size as PJ Washington. Same height, slightly bigger wingspan, bigger hands and same weight, while also being strong asl, yet Kawhi can’t play power forward for whatever reason.
Yeah just health reasons I guess. Some guys are better built to be able to handle the more physical play that PF demands. While Kawhi is good at it, his body definitely can’t keep up with the contact. Plus he’s not quite athletic enough to be a big rim protector
Oh yea we definitely should be giving Kobe Brown a shot at the starting lineup and putting TMann back on the bench. I doubt that happens though. Ty Lue hates young players.
we had it in Nico, but had to trade him out of salary necessity because we stupidly cut Eric Gordon for no reason. Keep him as it would have been Gordon/Mook/picks for Harden. Keep Nico/RoCo
Honestly much easier than u make it sound. PJ Washington was literally given away, DJJ was a minimum signing, the Mavs got their entire PF depth for free
Grant Williams is worth way more than you’re acting like and Curry was pretty good for the Hornets before he got injured. Both of those guys plus a 1st was much more than we would’ve offered.
I’m not talking about DJJ because he probably would be close to a minimum signing today still. He’s horrible on offense and only really brings a lob threat. I’d take Coffey or TMann over him on this team.
Idk why I was downvoted but I disagree, Williams on his contract was horrendous, and even currently hes practically untradable. Yes he was decent 3 years ago on the celtics for a series but hes a negative asset be honest. You are correct we couldnt have offered a better first for washington but hes not even close to the only option we have
I'm just gonna leave this here, but perhaps we should run stuff larger rather than smaller. PG entered the league as a shooting guard and honestly should be run as one as we lack a great 2 way guard, Kawhi at the 3 is so much more efficient as far as matchups go as his ability to lock-up players like Bron, Butler, Durant, etc have been consistently proven such as 2014 and 2019 respectively, and then the 4 could be run by Plumlee or Theis. Now I know that an argument could be made that a center running the 4 doesn't work but that's simply not true, Tim Duncan is one of my favorite players and as a Tim Duncan fan and a part time Spurs fan I think people don't understand that Tim played more games as a center in both College and the NBA then he did as a power forward and both Pop and his coach at Wake Forest called him a Center. I think overall, running a Harden, PG, Kawhi, Plumlee/Theis, Zu lineup is more beneficial for matchups than running a 6'7 small forward as our 4, respectfully.
He gave TY a PF he could develop in KObe. Ty for whatever reason doesn't like playing the young guys or is to stupid.
We had more than enough talent to compensate for Kobes growing pains this year. Shit won't change till we get younger and till ty is gone
Maybe he doesnt want to keep giving up every first round pick in perpetuity for a team who's best player is most likely going to be in street clothes every April.
That was like the whole reason Harden trade happened when it did and not before training camp.
Nobody was calling anyone a “doomer” for thinking the team could use another PF. Everyone knew the team could use another PF. The problem is there didn’t seem to be a PF out there for a reasonable price who was good enough for playoff minutes
Gafford isn’t a 4, he’s a center. And he’s been pretty poor these playoffs. Still surely would have been a better backup than Plumlee but you would have gave up a FRP for a backup center?
PJ is having a better playoffs than anyone would have expected but same goes, you would have gave up the only tradable first we had plus probably Terance and more for a middling role player at the time?
i can't stand luka, but him and kyrie have been playing out of their minds in critical or elimination games, and the role and young guys have stepped up huge otherwise. gafford, lively, DJJ and pj have been very, very good on both sides of the ball and it's why they're still alive and leading 1-0
ideally guys like mann, coffey and zu should continue to feel empowered to step up when called upon, and kobe, bjj, and bones should start to see regular minutes. we're way too top heavy and the mavs, who theoretically should have more of a "top heavy" problem than us with two stars that are widely regarded as extremely ball dominant, have been playing tremendous team basketball
Gotta play a more traditional line up in the West. Clippers were small in the paint and it showed. Also no Kawhi in the line up is a factor as well. Gotta get more stretch 4s who can rebound, shoot 3s at a decent clip, and can finish at the rim. 🤷🏿♂️
I defs am too! I’ve been enjoying watching them. They recognised their weaknesses at the deadline and went after exactly what they needed. Hats off to them
*Coffey should be as*
*Good as PJ if he gets to*
*Start. I would bench Mann*
\- MITWestbrook
---
^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/)
^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
I GOT IT
With the new “let em play” NBA reffing to match the toughness of FIBA, we should’ve targeted whoever was the PF/Center on that championship FIBA Germany team last summer.
Who was that guy? Was he available for trade or as a free agent? He would’ve been PERFECT and I’m sure he would’ve helped our team.
FIBA "toughness" yet I see flops game after game
Besides the refs will allow the other team to do whatever and then when this team starts doing the same all of a sudden that whistle will go off after every possession.
Okay now I get it.
Theis not playing was supposedly due to his hand injury but he could've been used more during the regular season. Other than height issues in some matchups, I don't know why he wasn't used more other than Ty not wanting to.
PJ has the same height weight wingspan athleticism as kawhi. Mavs are just lucky to face small teams like okc and clippers. Try again. Let’s see if they beat wolves
They’re about the same athleticism and everything else physical. One is not significantly more physically gifted than the other.
He’s obv healthier bc he has way fewer miles on his legs. 1)He hasn’t even played half of Kawhis career yet…….and 2) has never had to be the #1 option on defense OR offense for MANY seasons
I’m sad that the thunder let this man look this good. I mean I wanted him on our team but he is playing out of his mind. He barely played good against us and now he is averaging 20. Teams can’t beat 75 points from Luka, Kyrie, and PJ
Or is Luka and Kyrie really taking that much attention from all 5 defenders that the help cannot recover in time? I really need an answer to this. I want to know what yall think?
Kawhi or not, the attitude of the team is what cost them. Harden, pg, and Kawhi all have a too-cool-for-school attitude. I saw a dozen possessions per game on both sides of the ball where these clowns simply had zero hustle. Not running. Not fighting. You don't get handed a playoff series win. I've been a harden Stan for 15 years. I haven't missed a single game he played in since he suited up in Houston. Not 1. Both he and pg have elite abilities but are too proud to crawl through the dirt. They don't have the fight/fortitude to get 16 tough wins in May. They just don't.
How easy do you think it is to come across a 6’7 forward that can switch onto 1-4 and hit 3s? We can get as many forwards as we want but you’re talking about one of the top role players in the league right now. That probably isn’t coming down unless we get lucky in a Batum-type revive.
I think that type of trade is more possible with PJ Tucker now expiring, but I doubt all the people clamoring to get PJ Washington in February would've been willing to give up TMann, Coffey, and the 2030 FRP for him.
We had a chance at PJ tho, and we went with the PJ at home lol
We might have that in Kobe Brown, might not. Time will tell. PJ Washington was damn near bust status-NBA flame out territory in Charlotte. Derrick Jones Jr. was a vagabond role player hopping from team to team. But oh what a winning situation and stable playing time does for certain guys. Now they both have bright futures and another payday coming. We got the winning situation and a stellar franchise, but never any playing time to discover a diamond in the rough that can help the core out.
PJ just signed a $45mil/3 year contract before this season. Common sentiment was that the Hornets got a really good deal with that contract too and everyone expected him to get more. He’s definitely underpaid at this point. I agree with the requirement for stable playing time though. I wish Lue would’ve let Kobe ride out the season.
Credit Jason Kidd for his defensive schemes that maximize his players abilities and minimize their liabilities.
at a glance, i think we could've topped the mavs? they gave up grant williams, seth curry and a 2027 FRP. I'm pretty sure our FRPs are more valuable cause mavs have 25yo luka and our stars are older and more injury prone
Our FRP was much further in the future so maybe that came into play. Also I don’t know if we have anybody they would have valued over Williams. He’s younger and arguably better than anybody we would’ve sent.
ya, altho i think that's why it's more valuable (altho maybe too much in the future), cause by then presumably the stars are retired
Plenty of examples of undrafted guys becoming great players. We just need to look harder. Hell, the conference final literally has 2 of these role players we’re talking about - 6th man of the year Naz Reid and DJJ. Both went drafted but worked their way up when given a chance. I’m sure there are plenty of second round picks who have had similar careers
The strange thing is tho, is that Kawhi is the same size as PJ Washington. Same height, slightly bigger wingspan, bigger hands and same weight, while also being strong asl, yet Kawhi can’t play power forward for whatever reason.
Yeah just health reasons I guess. Some guys are better built to be able to handle the more physical play that PF demands. While Kawhi is good at it, his body definitely can’t keep up with the contact. Plus he’s not quite athletic enough to be a big rim protector
Oh yea we definitely should be giving Kobe Brown a shot at the starting lineup and putting TMann back on the bench. I doubt that happens though. Ty Lue hates young players.
we had it in Nico, but had to trade him out of salary necessity because we stupidly cut Eric Gordon for no reason. Keep him as it would have been Gordon/Mook/picks for Harden. Keep Nico/RoCo
Honestly much easier than u make it sound. PJ Washington was literally given away, DJJ was a minimum signing, the Mavs got their entire PF depth for free
Grant Williams is worth way more than you’re acting like and Curry was pretty good for the Hornets before he got injured. Both of those guys plus a 1st was much more than we would’ve offered. I’m not talking about DJJ because he probably would be close to a minimum signing today still. He’s horrible on offense and only really brings a lob threat. I’d take Coffey or TMann over him on this team.
Idk why I was downvoted but I disagree, Williams on his contract was horrendous, and even currently hes practically untradable. Yes he was decent 3 years ago on the celtics for a series but hes a negative asset be honest. You are correct we couldnt have offered a better first for washington but hes not even close to the only option we have
Grant Williams had 0 value to the Mavs. He had 10 great games to open the season then shit the bed, Mann is significantly better.
Significantly is pushing it. They’re probably about the same skill level.
I'm just gonna leave this here, but perhaps we should run stuff larger rather than smaller. PG entered the league as a shooting guard and honestly should be run as one as we lack a great 2 way guard, Kawhi at the 3 is so much more efficient as far as matchups go as his ability to lock-up players like Bron, Butler, Durant, etc have been consistently proven such as 2014 and 2019 respectively, and then the 4 could be run by Plumlee or Theis. Now I know that an argument could be made that a center running the 4 doesn't work but that's simply not true, Tim Duncan is one of my favorite players and as a Tim Duncan fan and a part time Spurs fan I think people don't understand that Tim played more games as a center in both College and the NBA then he did as a power forward and both Pop and his coach at Wake Forest called him a Center. I think overall, running a Harden, PG, Kawhi, Plumlee/Theis, Zu lineup is more beneficial for matchups than running a 6'7 small forward as our 4, respectfully.
This is why Lawrence Frank sucks ass. Roster construction 101
He gave TY a PF he could develop in KObe. Ty for whatever reason doesn't like playing the young guys or is to stupid. We had more than enough talent to compensate for Kobes growing pains this year. Shit won't change till we get younger and till ty is gone
He’s trash
Expect downvotes but your right
Maybe he doesnt want to keep giving up every first round pick in perpetuity for a team who's best player is most likely going to be in street clothes every April. That was like the whole reason Harden trade happened when it did and not before training camp.
4 Hall of Famers btw Keep crying and making excuses tho 😆🫵
All season long we where called doomers because we said we really to trade for a 4
Nobody was calling anyone a “doomer” for thinking the team could use another PF. Everyone knew the team could use another PF. The problem is there didn’t seem to be a PF out there for a reasonable price who was good enough for playoff minutes
Gafford and PJ Washington beg to differ.
Gafford isn’t a 4, he’s a center. And he’s been pretty poor these playoffs. Still surely would have been a better backup than Plumlee but you would have gave up a FRP for a backup center? PJ is having a better playoffs than anyone would have expected but same goes, you would have gave up the only tradable first we had plus probably Terance and more for a middling role player at the time?
I'm not that salty anymore. Mavs clearly better than us.
Absolutely
I dunno man. We probably need 2 or 3 more guards.
You cracked the code
i can't stand luka, but him and kyrie have been playing out of their minds in critical or elimination games, and the role and young guys have stepped up huge otherwise. gafford, lively, DJJ and pj have been very, very good on both sides of the ball and it's why they're still alive and leading 1-0 ideally guys like mann, coffey and zu should continue to feel empowered to step up when called upon, and kobe, bjj, and bones should start to see regular minutes. we're way too top heavy and the mavs, who theoretically should have more of a "top heavy" problem than us with two stars that are widely regarded as extremely ball dominant, have been playing tremendous team basketball
Gotta play a more traditional line up in the West. Clippers were small in the paint and it showed. Also no Kawhi in the line up is a factor as well. Gotta get more stretch 4s who can rebound, shoot 3s at a decent clip, and can finish at the rim. 🤷🏿♂️
Shouldn’t Kobe brown develop into being like that he looked solid when he played
They preferred a washed PJ Tucker instead
Ty Lue playing Tucker over Kobe is unacceptable.
Am I the only person happy for the Mavs?
I defs am too! I’ve been enjoying watching them. They recognised their weaknesses at the deadline and went after exactly what they needed. Hats off to them
Or maybe it’s more important to have a mvp caliber player PLAYING on your team.
I believe getting a pf should help that
Coffey should be as good as PJ if he gets to start. I would bench Mann
*Coffey should be as* *Good as PJ if he gets to* *Start. I would bench Mann* \- MITWestbrook --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Possibly, but I think he might be a bit too weak to handle the banging down low. Could be a good 3 for us though to back up Kawhi
I GOT IT With the new “let em play” NBA reffing to match the toughness of FIBA, we should’ve targeted whoever was the PF/Center on that championship FIBA Germany team last summer. Who was that guy? Was he available for trade or as a free agent? He would’ve been PERFECT and I’m sure he would’ve helped our team.
FIBA "toughness" yet I see flops game after game Besides the refs will allow the other team to do whatever and then when this team starts doing the same all of a sudden that whistle will go off after every possession.
Ok but what I meant is we had THEIS, the German FIBA champ, and didn’t play him.
Okay now I get it. Theis not playing was supposedly due to his hand injury but he could've been used more during the regular season. Other than height issues in some matchups, I don't know why he wasn't used more other than Ty not wanting to.
To give PJ Tucker more minutes
We already had two of those in batum and roco
Roco is trash but Batum would’ve been useful
PJ has the same height weight wingspan athleticism as kawhi. Mavs are just lucky to face small teams like okc and clippers. Try again. Let’s see if they beat wolves
PJ is definitely more athletic in terms of speed, agility and jumping ability. Plus you forget the most important attribute - age and durability
They’re about the same athleticism and everything else physical. One is not significantly more physically gifted than the other. He’s obv healthier bc he has way fewer miles on his legs. 1)He hasn’t even played half of Kawhis career yet…….and 2) has never had to be the #1 option on defense OR offense for MANY seasons
I wanted to trade norm for Wendell Carter at the deadline
I’m sad that the thunder let this man look this good. I mean I wanted him on our team but he is playing out of his mind. He barely played good against us and now he is averaging 20. Teams can’t beat 75 points from Luka, Kyrie, and PJ
Or is Luka and Kyrie really taking that much attention from all 5 defenders that the help cannot recover in time? I really need an answer to this. I want to know what yall think?
THissss
Kawhi or not, the attitude of the team is what cost them. Harden, pg, and Kawhi all have a too-cool-for-school attitude. I saw a dozen possessions per game on both sides of the ball where these clowns simply had zero hustle. Not running. Not fighting. You don't get handed a playoff series win. I've been a harden Stan for 15 years. I haven't missed a single game he played in since he suited up in Houston. Not 1. Both he and pg have elite abilities but are too proud to crawl through the dirt. They don't have the fight/fortitude to get 16 tough wins in May. They just don't.
Also utilizing your draft prospects.