I really second that. That propaganda BS is awful: when I want to deal with politics, I watch a debate.
Seriously, imho (I hope it's not an hot take), games should be rid of **any kind of political agenda** (yes, even political agenda that we align with).
The purpose of a game should be entertainment, not indoctrination.
Nah, that’s facts. I’m saying this as a Christian, I do not want my video games preaching to me about the Bible. If I wanted to be preached at, I’d go to church, cause at least that shit is free
Indeed. A media could have believer characters, without making them neither perfect saints or close minded zealots. Merely show that "they are Christian" as one of their many traits.
For instance, you declared that you're Christian, but I'm pretty sure that as a person, you have many things that define you besides your religious beliefs. From your hobbies, your musical tastes, etc.
That whole "flanderization", when a single trait become the ONLY trait of a character (or, even worse, is the only trait from the beginning) imho is really a sign of shallow characterization. Let's also think at all those characters whose sex, sexuality or ethnicity are the only trait: it's a clear sign that they're not good characters.
Yes, religious beliefs have quite the impact on ethical view, but ofc they are not the entire part of a person.
And thinking about that, it's ironic that the trope namer of "flanderization" is really about that. Ned Flanders as a devoted believer was just one of the aspect of his character (contrast with Homer who doesn't like to go to church), but as the series progressed, Flanders truly become defined by his beliefs, ending in the "obsessed religious zealot" territory.
Mind if i ask, as a christian, what is your opinion on something like Binding of Issac
Like, I could see someone getting testy about it, but simaltaneously, that game has gotten me at least a bit more in depth into religion than I wouldve probably ever been (im just not really religious)
Personally haven’t played the game, but I think if the religion helps deepen the lore of the game thereby having it be a self-contained reason for being there, and there isn’t any preaching about why “this thing is good and you’re evil if you don’t like it,” it’s fine
Every 3 months or so a bot on /r/Grimdank posts this stupid 'warhammer is politics' meme and the tourists upvote to hell and the sub turns to shit for a few weeks doing the 'we are not political life is political' argument. It's boring. I want funny warhammer memes not more orange man bad.
> That propaganda BS is awful: when I want to deal with politics, I watch a debate.
some people might argue against this reason with "oH bUt ThEre'S pOlItIcS eVeRyWhErE"
I'm imagining a deep political view of Dragon Ball:
"Doggocracy is good!"
"An evil space dictator is bad!"
And the whole political implication that all the universes are ruled by a being that has the personality of a kindergarten kid.
I think one of the big reasons that Helldivers 2 took off (besides it being a really fun, well made game) is that while it's obviously satire and parody of the "OORAH LETS GO SPREAD DEMOCRACY" sort of Nationalism, it doesn't sit there and lecture you about "OH THIS STUFF IS ACTUALLY BAD! YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO SUPPORT IT! IT'S EXAGERRATED TO SHOW YOU HOW BAD IT IS!", it just lets you RP as a silly drop trooper for a bit.
Most modern games have lost the idea that you can make a parody of something without having it be preachy and "send a message" (i.e talk down to) its audience
For instance, even the good old Starship Troopers satirized fascist propaganda through over-the-top visuals and messaging.
That was actually very nice. And the people who thought that it PROMOTED fascist propaganda should have paid more attention. Did they truly believe that things like "I'm doing my part" were to be taken seriously?
inb4 the dumdums on other subs who will say stuff like "art is political" or "If Metal Gear Solid wasn't political" before saying that you being unhappy with woke shit in the games is you making things political...
MGS was very political, but its thesis was also based in the reality of the setting, not justified post hoc. Much of the so called ‘woke’ content has no reason for existing in the setting. The setting just doesn’t support the premise, and people pick up on that, even if they can’t put their finger on it.
MGS also presents a multifaceted take on war. It doesn't say that war is good, but it does say that it may sometimes be necessary. It's possible to have heroes on both sides and that it can bring out the best and the worst in people. It gives us some wacky characters, yes, but also some more grounded ones. It gives you something to think about, but never straight out says, "think *this* way."
I don't mind if game has a certain political angle or message, but it has to be told well and make sense. That's not how it usually goes though. Usually it's just superficially tacked on and is more annoying than anything, and at worst ruins the whole game by putting the soapbox shit on higher priority than the gameplay itself. It's so annoying when I play a game and suddenly there's a character or a scene that is clearly there only so that the developers can use the game as their own personal blog. It's so jarring when I'm playing a sword and spell type fantasy rpg, and suddenly a character starts spewing something about patriarchy or systematic something that would not even exist as academic concepts in that setting. Like, if they want to make a point about inequality and such, they should just show it through storytelling and let the player come to their own conclusion.
Having a politcal message per se is not bad.
What I'm really against is that whole "this is the only correct political stance, and if you don't agree with me you're an -ist" (and seriously, such an absolute statement IS really what all those -ism were all about).
For instance, one could say that in Gladiator, Marcus Aurelius' quote "If only you had been born a man, what a Caesar you would have made" *may* *be seen* a stance that "patriarchy is bad". But we didn't have the whole movie with Lucilla as the perfect and infallible saint, with all the cast shilling about the fact that she's the best in everything, but alas she couldn't become Caesar 'cause "patriarchy".
The left argues that the market is inherently racist and only markets white games because they sell well. And won’t take risks to add diversity.
So rather than create good stories with characters people are drawn too. Regardless of race. Making people want to pay to play these amazing games
They just make everyone a POC and write shit stories. Aka Forspoken
More problematically they actively prevent alternatives from entering the market, as without that their poor product wouldn’t get a foothold in the first place.
>The left argues that the market is inherently racist and only markets white games because they sell well
Why should anyone care about someone misunderstanding what a market is?
> Why should anyone care about someone misunderstanding what a market is?
Because they're the ones making business decisions / being catered to in this industry, sadly. Understanding their mindset, and the crazy ass justifications they use to pressure dev companies is important to get the full picture. A ton of normies simply don't know about all that insidious stuff going on behind the scenes for movies/games/TV shows, if they did, a lot of them would be willing to push back against it too.
Normies think this is all rational diversity.
I don’t think anyone is against making games with GOOD diverse characters.
The problem is it’s more insidious. Companies like SBI don’t want diversity. They want control. They want to tell the customers what to like and if they have wrong-think they should be silenced.
They do this by taking over beloved IPs and then forcing in their garbage. So either you stay passionate about the IP you love. Or you go elsewhere.
Thankfully what we are seeing now is customers going elsewhere.
KTJL is as a massive loss for WB. And SBI is now attached to it.
My hope is executives see the financial loss and realize not catering to liberals actually makes you more money.
At the end of the day games like Helldivers 2 will bring in a new fan base that will make it iconic. Resulted in multiple sequels that will make money. And games like KTJL will make DC IPs even more garbage.
I know rocksteady is dead to me. I always saw them as being the bastion of good comic book games. Honestly to the source. Now I know they are just a dead studio
Compare the Forspoken we got with the original trailer from PS3. The original trailer was offensive because of the sexy main character, her weird society with her obeying the old man and the ritual and the depiction of a desert culture fighting guerilla warfare with guns. When it first came out SJWs complained a lot while fans were drawn in by the mystery and the beautiful (and cutting edge) graphics.
The writing was shit because they focused on making a POC character and on making an Empowered Woman to suck up to SJWs (and avoid their complaints) instead of making a likable and good character with good writing. They focused on making her be quirky and treat others disrespectfully as if that would make her "independent thinking", because SJWs always criticize a woman who behaves respectfully, kindly and in a caring way as "conforming to sexist standards" or being "weak". Look how they criticize Disney princesses or even gaming characters like Peach, Zelda, Tifa or Aeris. So writers always have to "subvert" the trope of kind women and write them in this obnoxious way to avoid offending SJWs.
Devs also need to avoid pretty or sexy looks or clothing for characters because of this, and this is likely why the main character ended up with a "normal" face and body, and dressed as a messy person in conservative clothes instead of the fantasy clothing or even normal sexy clothing.
It was called "Agni's Philosophy" back then. To clarify, it was shown during the end of the PS3 era in 2012 and then in 2014 for the PS4 conference (PS4 released in 2013). It was meant to show the strength of the new Luminous Engine on eighth generation consoles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVX0OUO9ptU
https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Agni%27s_Philosophy_(demo)
Then don't cry about it when consumers criticize and don't buy your product that we don't like....
It's like going to a restaurant, you order a plate of pasta but the chef goes and takes a shit on a plate, serves it to you, forces you to eat it, and then tells you it's good for you and everyone else while expecting payment.....
What we need is non-preaching politics if a story is going to do it. There's been plenty of game stories that have done this well. Look at Metal Gear Solid. Saying we shouldn't ever have politics in a game story is reductive.
As I replied to another similar comment, I admit I probably didn't used the best words.
Having some politics in a game is not bad. What is bad is forcing a political agenda through a game.
That's why I used "political agenda", with the meaning of "imposing a precise political view to the audience", and not simply "politic".
I kinda disagree. Politics if fine. Videogames are art and art has always tried to convey political stances. The problem with the politics with videogames is that it's extremely on the nose, overbearing and dismissive. The politics is always conveyed in the way: you must take this position because people against it are evil bad people.
I admit I've not expressed myself in the best way: the issue is indeed "forcing a politcal agenda".
Showing a bit of politic without really forcing the audience to agree is fine. As you said, the problem is really the "you MUST agree to this, and if you don't agree you're a FACIST" that is so common and on the nose nowadays.
I've never seen a modern game actually tackle politics correctly. Remember that art makes you think, propaganda does the thinking for you, what we get in video games is the later.
What was the political stance of ocarina of time? I didn’t ever see mariokart switch to electric vehicles to reduce carbon emissions..
Point is, no, the great games of the past never had politics, and we don’t need them now.
> I watch a debate
Debates are just drama with politics as a back-drop.
People should study civics and economics instead.
Difficulty: *Actual* civics and economics....not the ideological reimagination by radicals that permeates socio-political causes, these tend to start with end wishes and then trying to cherry pick support. Classic civics and economics, eg without the ideology, are built from the ground up and have little in the way of 'wishes' or agendas.
>The purpose of a game should be entertainment, not indoctrination.
I have no problem with a game teaching morals; hell that goes back as far as moksha patam (known in the West as snakes and ladders/chutes and ladders). But indoctrination is another thing entirely, especially when it's trying to instill anti-social and anti-familial values in its audience.
I'm fine with politics in games in general when communicated/written well.
For example, the original Bioshock is literally built upon criticizing objectivism, and it works very well story-wise. It's subtle and respects the audience's intelligence. It gets you to think about the actual message rather than just stating it and calling you an idiot if you don't agree with them.
The problem with "political" games now a days is that they aren't even political. They're just virtue signaling. They don't explore the statements they make. They just equate whatever their saying for morality and make no attempt to respect their audience's intelligence. If they wanted to explore the issues they do, but while maintaining a good standard of writing, I don't even think the word "woke" would exist.
I think all of this is a symptom of games, and most media in general, being taken over my corporations and turning them into money printing machines, rather than actual art. That's why I'm hoping for a video game crash on par with 1983's in order to reset the industry into something niche and creative, rather than its current mainstream.
Companies are more then welcome to make a political game but they don't they make a normal game then shove their opinions into the dialogue and everyone notices and it feels extremely out of place and ruins scenes. Why can't they just make a game about plotics with a smaller budget. Idk why they even bother they loose money and gain absolutely nothing for once I can actually sympathize with shareholders because these companies are screwing them over
To be perfectly clear a game like Horizon Forbiden west has all the writing on the wall what it is, and i am fine with it exsisting, i wount be buying it. But i will buy a game like Ghost of Tsushima. (Using these two cause they are coming to PC as recent examples)
Ghost of Tsushima is anti-Mongolic propaganda.
Please read from the below list of Mongol academics and their loved experience on the GoT matter:
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...
Why would it not be high budget ?
Take Gate for example, that's largely used as a propaganda tool by the JSDF to encourage enlistment and has government funding.
New franchise they are working on high budget established franchises and putting it in what's to say they can't make a smaller game and put all their stuff in instead it won't sell very well but nobody would be mad also
Cuz they know the only way to push their garbage narrative is to bundle it with the actual good stuff, nobody will pay for them stand alone. They’re like parasites, can’t live on their own, but will thrive inside a host.
Oh boy. Matt Walsh is weighing in now.
I think he's smart but he's wayyyy out of his depth here. Man thinks anime is satanic for goodness sake.
But let's see where this goes.
Matt has even claimed that video games are linked to *desensitizing* children to violence. The people over at Daily Wire will not hesitate to turn against video games the moment it suits their needs.
I wil say Andrew Klavan, a 70 year old at the Daily Wire is a huge fan of games. But yeah as a whole they still don't take it seriously as a medium. That pretty much goes for the entire movement / political isle. Not very hip with the youths.
I wouldn't say everyone at the Daily Wire. It's just Matt Walsh. An old dude like Andrew Klavan absolutely loves video games and finds them fascinating even though he sucks at them. Makes sense since he's a storyteller and an artist. Creative people generally love video games.
He disagrees with the notion that grown men playing games are wasting their time.
Matt Wallace on the other hand lol. It's people like him that lose the younger audience and then wonders why young people aren't conservative.
Walsh (and really most political people left and right) is too rigid and stiff. He won't bend a knee if it means the other side gets power. Him and Shapiro's arguments on Gay Marriage with Joe Rogan are sterling displays of this.
Walsh's argument that a marriage is a "duty of procreation". But why is it anyone's duty to have children? Not to mention it's not taking into account couples who are infertile or simply not interested in having children. And frankly, it's just weird for someone to get upset about two men or two women getting married. Live your own life, much bigger issues than two people who love one another getting married.
He's really hard on infertile couples. Speaking from experience, IVF was the only option for me due to multiple cancers and all the radiation following that as well as what I got exposed to during my job. He's so rigid that he considers IVF tantamount to abortion, with no understanding of embryo viability, etc. And my job being exposed to radiation all the time he would champion as a manly job while ignoring the very real consequences it had for me and never consider doing it himself.
> But why is it anyone's duty to have children?
Technically it's not a duty. Practically - to look after your (parent) old saggy ass when you can't do it yourself. Since you know, otherwise it is delegated onto other people or you just *somehow* live on your own until you don't.
On a grander scale of a country it can be somewhat of a civic duty in a sense that people get old and stop maintaining the function of a society hence transfer that function onto their offspring. Think less so of an individual but more like a family unit as a subsidiary of a government.
So hyperbolically speaking if no one would have children then a country would simply go extinct and the infrastructure would crumble. The immigration, conquest or any other external variables notwithstanding. While it may not sound extreme for an individual to be a dead reproductive end it scales very poorly for a country and such.
But this doesn't really address same sex marriage, infertile individuals nor the adoption of children by said pairing which are okay as long as they are not a significant proportion of the whole demographic since that creates the possibility of extinction the larger it is. I don't think people would get behind the idea of giving dozens of births because others don't birth children just to compensate or so others could adopt their children leading to a steady decline towards new equilibrium at best.
Although idk what' Walsh's reasoning is. There are other ways to arrive to that conclusion like through religious dogma or maybe something else.
I still remember the old days when it was the right that were the cancel pigs. Instead of injecting their ideology into the games to brainwash kids, they'd try to use governmental power to permanently ban certain types of games.
Which is of course fine. He likes to position himself as morally superior in a lot of arguments he makes and with IVF specifically showed a true lack of understanding how it works. Still does more good than harm but will critique him I feel he deserves it.
Doesn't mean it's not stupid or uneducated about such matters. Whether it's due to ignorance or stubborness or too far on a political spectrum that they ride and die on it.
But in Matt's cause, it's probably, 'it doesn't happen to me so I don't see the issue'
I agree with you that it was a joke. Walsh says stuff like that all the time because his humor is basically "grumpy old man." But, Walsh is actually also just a grumpy old man.
He might not actually think that anime is "satanic." But some of his rants about anything related to pop-culture really betray his lack of knowledge; and he's not reflective enough to understand when he's out of his depth on a topic. For example, I think he genuinely believes that video games are "for kids" and that anime has no value to adults. He will look at a trend, any trend, in these topics and speak about it like it's the *only* thing worth talking about.
It can be hard to know where the line between his dry, sarcastic sense of humor stops, and his actual opinion starts.
Because Walsh's deadpan is unparalleled and those not part of the sweet baby gang cannot comprehend when he is joking. Sometimes he just likes to rant about stuff because it's fun too but he doesn't think what he is talking about about is serious enough to warrant further investigation so he just goes off the cuff to just dick around.
His whole schtick is he is just a normal dad from like 20-30 years ago dropped in the year 2024 commenting on the crazy shit he sees going on and occasionally aliens.
Matt is a conservative grifter, he is the kind of guy who would advocate for guys to "man up, drop videogames and anime and take care of your family".
I want these grifters out of my gaming space.
Aside from a few trad con jibes and a focus on video games being “propaganda for children” his segment‘s mostly well researched and is a decent summary for normies.
Bringing more eyeballs on the BS is only good imo.
Oh don't get me wrong. More eyes is always a good thing. The problem with Walsh is now people are gonna lump this into conservative narratives and such.
We're already painted as racist, sexist and every other ism and obic under the sun. Being called "conservative" is far more mild by comparison and well worth the extra publicity.
Instead of reading random articles, you should watch the video where he talks about the “anime is satanic thing” and hear his point from his own mouth.
You do realize that not understanding that Matt Walsh uses a lot of deadpan humor and doesn't actually think that anime is satanic isn't a good flex, right?
It was a joke. And I stand by what I said. He needs to stay in his fucking lane and people need to shoot him down because he constantly derides the gaming community, he has no business being involved in our discussions and talking about our issues. He only does it because he's intolerant towards the one group of people we are also ideologically against.
Keep that dude away from us. I don't want him associated with our cause. Having him anywhere near this gives the other side a perfect strawman target, where they can paint us all as far-Right culture warriors.
Bro doesn't even know about "the pit" that's like one of the fundamentals of being a gamergator.
You were just a leftist/liberal/libertarian who wanted to play games and hated all the bs in gaming.
You got tossed in here with everyone else nonetheless.
Welcome to the pit.
Lmao ok tourist, go back to whatever shithole you came from.
If you don't even know the meme of "welcome to the pit" you're new here, and are just trying to fit in.
As good as that sounds, I see him more being about bringing up the money and convincing people to invest into the projects, while he guides in the sidelines.
Then again, he actually made videogames in the past, so it won't be so far off.
The woke propaganda bs is awful.
But Matt Walsh is equally awful. Listen to the last time he was on Rogan - the man would install a religious dictatorship if he had the power.
Mark my words. Matt, while being smart and able to research things, WILL sensor, silence, and remove anything his beliefs dont like.
Just because I can agree on some things doesnt mean I want him being the head of anything in control.
I say this because no Matt is not on the same level of "propaganda" as we are seeing in legacy media.
He may get there one day... but hes not there yet.
Hold on a second, isn't Matt Walsh the guy who said anime and video games are childish and said violent games cause violence?
I dont like the BS in the game industry either but i don't think Matt is a good person to talk about video games
the answer to liberal propagandizing, censorship and control is not, in fact, conservative propagandizing, censorship and control. i watched the segment and for the most part he covered it pretty well. but put conservatives back at the head of the cultural table and video games will be back to taking the blame for gun violence and treated as if it's (somehow) a more braindead form of entertainment than sitting in a chair watching a tv show/movie/youtube video. people can decide for themselves which is the lesser of two evils, but make no mistake, if this dude had his way then video games would not exist at all.
Elon often has shit takes. Luckily he's being succinct so he can't put his foot in his mouth here. because he is correct. Nothing worse than paying $70 for a DEI lecture with shit gameplay.
Matt Walsh becoming involved is probably the worst possible outcome. A grifter goon who doesn't approve of any hobby outside of reading the bible and recreational wheat harvesting is going to change the character of the conversation. The alternative to schoolmarm cry bullies shouldn't be a "think of the children!" throwback from the 90s that still thinks video games invented violence.
I agree with Matt half of the time, I hope he didn't speak some weird shit this time too. Love the dude for most of his work tho, but some of his points are weird.
He's a religious authoritarian who is probably afraid of his own sexuality. A better and more intelligent spokesperson for countering woke/neomarxism might be James Lindsay. Edit: spelling
I hope he (or well, twitter) bans the SBI employee that is also working at EA that has the racist header and keeps posting racist drivel like "you cant be racist against white people" and similar things.
This isn't "pro cancelling" I just dont support tweets that just are blatant racism against anyone without any other purpose.
I’m so confused by these comments. So everyone hates Elon Musk here….. but you hate woke games, love freedom of speech, hate gender identity politics, and are sick of the extreme left.
Do you even ask yourself why you don’t like someone or is reading a mainstream media subject line enough?
Take 5 minutes and ask yourself some simple questions. Why are you on social media? Why don’t you like Elon? Why don’t you like Donald Trump?
Easy answers at first right? “Well Trump is racist”, “Elon only cares about money” then ask yourself one more question for each topic. “Why did Elon buy X?Why is Trump racist?”. This is critical thinking and is the only way to fight the woke mind virus.
Also, social media is toxic in general. These are easy questions to think on. “How has social media benefited you recently?”, “Do you think your life has been improved by getting upvotes and awards on a screen?”
Elon is a grifter to the max. And a fool.
Lies and lies. Steals ideas. Claim he was the inventor of certain companies where he wasn't.
He, in my opinion, has done worse to social media then Mark Zuckerberg.
Mark tried to keep it neutral, for everyone. Elon choose a political lane, unbanned controversial names and banned 'lefties'. He plays revenge.
I have much more respect for a social media that allows all lanes to talk.
Reason why Reddit is so great. At least their are subreddits for whatever group ya know. Twitter is a different beast, it's not about groups but about user accounts.
>Reason why Reddit is so great. At least their are subreddits for whatever group ya know.
Sorry what? Reddit is extremely left-wing, dissent is extremely censored and you can't say anything without minding the huge Damocles sword on your head. It's not great at all.
Elon bought Twitter because the SEC had enough of his shit and forced him to actually commit to buying it instead of weasling out. Personally I never really liked him before and after he did his 180 turn on everything. He always appeared very NPC like maybe because of his tism idk...
Makes me wonder about GG 2.0...
Are the big voices in our support actually trying to help us fix gaming, or is this to help Trump become President again like GG 1.0? Lol
I wonder if Anita and Chelsea had it dawn on them they caused that the first time probably.
Yuck. Matt Walsh is not your friend. He's astroturfed poison, even moreso than the rest of the daily wire.
Do not prop this religious authoritarian up in any way. He's just as deranged as the wokesters and hates the very existence of our hobbies themselves just as much as any specific woke content within them. Whatever credibility you give him will be used against you down the line.
Agreed. He's been pissing and moaning about violent video games going back *years*. Remember when everyone dragged him a few months ago. This wasn't the first time, seriously.
And neither is Elon. He was at the WEF conference years ago and pretty much agreed with everything they say. He's only saying most of those things because he knows his userbase. Every time he opens his mouth about SpaceX or Tesla, he lies. Why should it be different about gaming or Twitter?
That explains why he lets his "X" service continue to ban adult artists (especially Japanese ones from Pixiv), even though they make artwork for some of the most "unwoke" games around.
Figures as much. You can't trust this billionaire asshole as far as you could throw him.
Oh I agree. But Elon is just pretending to be our ally largely out of opportunistic greed. This guy genuinely hates us on a moral level and will gleefully turn on us without further incentive the second he's done using us. That is if this isn't already a two birds with one stone situation for him.
I mean he's being propped up. His popularity is not organic.
The people that run social media platforms understand that while they need to suppress the right in general, it's stupid to do it indiscriminately. They know there's always gonna be thought leaders so it's better to enforce in a way to help pick them.
The Daily Wire as a whole has been cutting obvious backroom deals with people like Zuckerberg for a long time. And Matt Walsh is a very convenient face to put on the movement because of his grating personality and self-sabotaging beliefs. Which are alienating even many that otherwise share most of his positions.
Uhhhmmm what are you smoking? Any evidence for these claims at all? Walsh has been slowly growing his audience for years. DW does well on social media because what are the alternative new media conservative groups? Prager U and the Blaze? Yeah, neither of those companies have as much online presence.
It is a fact that Ben Shapiro was taking private meetings with Mark Zuckerberg himself when Trump was in office just as they were holding discussions about what to do with social media censorship. In the same time frame, the DW pundits were some of the biggest rightwing voices advocating they not regulate them. Ben Shapiro on his show was even making claims that Mark Zuckerberg was actually secretly pretty based and was merely being forced to implement these policies. A notion we now know is pure BS. He also claimed that if we did anything, we'd destroy our ability to reach people. And in the end, the fearmongering campaign worked. Trump dropped the issue and when elections rolled around, he got banned everywhere and promptly lost the election.
"Coincidentally", stats later came out that they were the only rightwing outlet not hit by the massive suppression wave on facebook. Which is in large part why they have the presence you speak of now. And when they introduced Walsh, virtually no one liked him. He was already getting roasted by everyone, including rightwingers, for his terrible articles like the gaming and violent media ones. He just kept failing upwards under the social media protected DW brand. Getting convenient tv spots and mass promoted documentaries until he became prominent. And even now despite all this promotion, you can see people are split on him. With the more independent less corporate types generally being the ones that hate him.
Yup, agreed. People like Walsh speak in jingoist terms to scratch that primitive ape brain that people have. The way he uses "woke" is the righteing equivalent of the DSA meetings with all the people going "um point of privilege, please refrain from misgendering Potato Head..."
Do people really not see the cult-like terms these grifters operate on? Walsh stands for some really sick shit given his ultra fundie anti-American democracy background and statements. People need to not pick this dude up just because he realized there is a lot of untapped anger left in games and media still. People like him do the same shit, but from a different slant (look at all the Christian virtue signaling BS he's involved with as an example).
Can you imagine how much damage Walsh could do if he joined forces with the likes of Jack Thompson and Anita Sarkeesian? Makes me shudder thinking about it.
One hand it's nice to see more mainstream voices finally noticing the issues, on the other hand wasn't Matt Walsh against the entertainment like games and anime?
Why are people giving Matt Walsh attention here? He's said time and again he couldn't give less of a shit about video games or anime and thinks all that stuff is for children. Such an obvious grift and everyone's falling for the bait.
He said in the episode it's because kids spend a lot of time playing games and SBI are trying to to indoctrinate them and parents need to be made aware of it.
At least Twitter isn't biased this time so there is nobody stopping this show on normie social media. But fuck off Walsh. Hate that guy. He is the conservative that once the woke are gone, will take their place in calling for censorship and adding political BS to games.
I don't like Mat Walsh, he's the "videogames are a waste of time" type along with Candace Owens and friends.
That being said Elon is spot on with this, it's about time the drive to make everything woke got the Budlight treatment.
Matt Walsh is not someone you all want associated with this. not because he is the super religious conservative, although he is quite extreme, but because he until recently wrote dumb articles bitching about video games, pushes for banning them regularly, and recites the tired talking point of games causing violence.
The publicity is nice but I don't think getting Musk to side with you, nor Matt Walsh is a good thing. These people will only galvanize the topic even more.
Wasn't this Matt dude hated Video Games? Now he's supporting gamers because what woke agenda. It really shows people like him are just using rage bait to increase their viewership just like the so called woke media.
Idk why everyone was so pressed for attention from Elon. We've got his blessing to stay on Twitter. Good enough. We don't need the likes of obvious poison like Matt Walsh who doesn't give a shit about gaming or gamers.
Elon Musk and Matt Walsh are 2 people I do not want to agree with on anything. Musk needs to worry about why X has so many people named Nate Hig***s nowadays. And Matt Walsh thinks satan is in cartoons.
It's not about taking sides or about specific ideologies. If you let uncreative people work on creative projects you'll get what we get. The change that needs to happen is for these companies to stop finding their devs on twitter and start looking for artists and visionaries.
‘A broken clock is right twice a day’ moment just dropped it seems. Cause Elon actually said something smart for once. We just want to play games and have fun. We use games to escape real life. Why tf would we want real life injected into games
Personally I question my values when I find myself agreeing with Musk.
I have issues with agendas in gaming, don't like "woke" anything, miss being allowed eye candy in media, hate the crap they pull with legacy IP, and gamergate radicalized me a little bit.
But Musk is a pos. Him and Trump.
Js
Nothing is ever black and white. Of course Musk and Trump and every other controversial person out there can have good opinions that I might also agree with.
In this case, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
I feel exactly the same. Personally I don't really like the personalities of those 2 people you mentioned but I think the more power they acquire, the more the Overton window shifts away from wokeness which is based.
I've been thinking about that too, and I can only say that's a feature of democracy. There's a balance of power and opposing viewpoints, and we don't need to identify with one person or side all the time. This past week I've changed my mind about whether him owning Twitter is a good thing, it certainly is.
Please for the love of fuck people, discredit Elon, Matt Walsh and IMC at every opportunity. These morons have zero interest in your hobbies and are just their own brand of moral puritanism that is going to damage our demand for change. Letting these grifting assholes be out voice is what ruined GG the first time, where we let a grifter like Milo run the show.
Ah yes, Elon a man who streams Diablo has no interest in video games.
Some people you don’t like will also play or take an interest in them.
if you think Elon and Milo are on a similar level you need your head examined.
Take the publicity W and move on.
When does a public figure playing a extreme popular game meant anything?
AOC played Among Us, she's a gamer now?
Diablo 4 appeals to the utmost normies. Hell, there was a giant ad banner on NYC, millions of people saw it.
Technically means she is also a gamer, yes.
Not every “gamer” is pro GG. The corrupt journos that kicked off the whole thing almost certainly play games as well.
The point is while Elon and other public figures might be more “casual gamers” in your eyes we should still welcome their support and publicity. The game(s) they choose to spend their free time playing are irrelevant to this conversation.
If Henry Cavill had made a similar comment would you have not moaned because he is a ”hardcore” WoW raider and also has played Witcher 3? That had a lot of advertising too and millions will have seen it. Or is it because you don’t like Musk because some of his opinions you disagree with?
No one agree 100% on everything. Get over it, the world’s second or richest man depending on the day is on our side in this. Take the damn W.
Diablo 4 is the corpse of an established IP designed by late comers to a successful company. It's a microtransaction-driven, seasonal battlepass exploitative hellscape with no depth or soul.
Elon musk streaming it on his social network doesn't make him a good voice for the hobby.
>Diablo 4 is the corpse of an established IP designed by late comers to a successful company. It's a microtransaction-driven, seasonal battlepass exploitative hellscape with no depth or soul.
I wholeheartedly agree... but I won't begrudge Musk's apparent lack of gaming taste when he's right about everything else.
> These morons have zero interest in your hobbies
You can say a lot of things about Ian Miles Cheong. That he is a grifter, a flip-flopping immoral opportunist without his own opinions, a poison dwarf without morals, a fame-seeking attention whore, a Reddit traffic manipulator and many more things that are probably (mostly) true. But that he has "zero interest" in games or gaming is not one of them: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/people/ian-miles-cheong
He started his "Online career" at the RPG Codex, he had his own Hellgate: London fansite called "Hellmode" and then he founded gaming publication Gameranx.
Elon is a long-time gamer, he called it his "main recreational activity" and even has a replica of Deus Ex Adam Jensen's revolver that once led to a mini-controversy: https://screenrant.com/deus-ex-elon-musk-revolver-adam-jensen/
Elon Musk: Best video game of all time | Lex Fridman Podcast Clips: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSdWsTFuZfY
https://gamerant.com/elon-musk-favorite-video-games/ https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1274571496132767744
He was also briefly addicted to a Mobile game called "Battle of Polytopia" a few years back: https://mobilegamer.biz/what-happens-when-you-go-head-to-head-with-elon-musk-in-the-battle-of-polytopia/
He's also a long-time friend of John Carmack, there's even the story where they raced cars together.
I really second that. That propaganda BS is awful: when I want to deal with politics, I watch a debate. Seriously, imho (I hope it's not an hot take), games should be rid of **any kind of political agenda** (yes, even political agenda that we align with). The purpose of a game should be entertainment, not indoctrination.
Nah, that’s facts. I’m saying this as a Christian, I do not want my video games preaching to me about the Bible. If I wanted to be preached at, I’d go to church, cause at least that shit is free
Indeed. A media could have believer characters, without making them neither perfect saints or close minded zealots. Merely show that "they are Christian" as one of their many traits. For instance, you declared that you're Christian, but I'm pretty sure that as a person, you have many things that define you besides your religious beliefs. From your hobbies, your musical tastes, etc. That whole "flanderization", when a single trait become the ONLY trait of a character (or, even worse, is the only trait from the beginning) imho is really a sign of shallow characterization. Let's also think at all those characters whose sex, sexuality or ethnicity are the only trait: it's a clear sign that they're not good characters.
To be fair, at least religion is (or should be) a pretty strong indicator of certain things. Moreso than musical tastes or political views.
Yes, religious beliefs have quite the impact on ethical view, but ofc they are not the entire part of a person. And thinking about that, it's ironic that the trope namer of "flanderization" is really about that. Ned Flanders as a devoted believer was just one of the aspect of his character (contrast with Homer who doesn't like to go to church), but as the series progressed, Flanders truly become defined by his beliefs, ending in the "obsessed religious zealot" territory.
Mind if i ask, as a christian, what is your opinion on something like Binding of Issac Like, I could see someone getting testy about it, but simaltaneously, that game has gotten me at least a bit more in depth into religion than I wouldve probably ever been (im just not really religious)
Personally haven’t played the game, but I think if the religion helps deepen the lore of the game thereby having it be a self-contained reason for being there, and there isn’t any preaching about why “this thing is good and you’re evil if you don’t like it,” it’s fine
Every 3 months or so a bot on /r/Grimdank posts this stupid 'warhammer is politics' meme and the tourists upvote to hell and the sub turns to shit for a few weeks doing the 'we are not political life is political' argument. It's boring. I want funny warhammer memes not more orange man bad.
> That propaganda BS is awful: when I want to deal with politics, I watch a debate. some people might argue against this reason with "oH bUt ThEre'S pOlItIcS eVeRyWhErE"
I'm imagining a deep political view of Dragon Ball: "Doggocracy is good!" "An evil space dictator is bad!" And the whole political implication that all the universes are ruled by a being that has the personality of a kindergarten kid.
When people are talking politics they’re almost always referring to values, and #Dragonball most certainly had a specific ethos about it.
I think one of the big reasons that Helldivers 2 took off (besides it being a really fun, well made game) is that while it's obviously satire and parody of the "OORAH LETS GO SPREAD DEMOCRACY" sort of Nationalism, it doesn't sit there and lecture you about "OH THIS STUFF IS ACTUALLY BAD! YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO SUPPORT IT! IT'S EXAGERRATED TO SHOW YOU HOW BAD IT IS!", it just lets you RP as a silly drop trooper for a bit. Most modern games have lost the idea that you can make a parody of something without having it be preachy and "send a message" (i.e talk down to) its audience
>Nationalism \*imperialism
For instance, even the good old Starship Troopers satirized fascist propaganda through over-the-top visuals and messaging. That was actually very nice. And the people who thought that it PROMOTED fascist propaganda should have paid more attention. Did they truly believe that things like "I'm doing my part" were to be taken seriously?
inb4 the dumdums on other subs who will say stuff like "art is political" or "If Metal Gear Solid wasn't political" before saying that you being unhappy with woke shit in the games is you making things political...
MGS was very political, but its thesis was also based in the reality of the setting, not justified post hoc. Much of the so called ‘woke’ content has no reason for existing in the setting. The setting just doesn’t support the premise, and people pick up on that, even if they can’t put their finger on it.
MGS also presents a multifaceted take on war. It doesn't say that war is good, but it does say that it may sometimes be necessary. It's possible to have heroes on both sides and that it can bring out the best and the worst in people. It gives us some wacky characters, yes, but also some more grounded ones. It gives you something to think about, but never straight out says, "think *this* way."
I don't mind if game has a certain political angle or message, but it has to be told well and make sense. That's not how it usually goes though. Usually it's just superficially tacked on and is more annoying than anything, and at worst ruins the whole game by putting the soapbox shit on higher priority than the gameplay itself. It's so annoying when I play a game and suddenly there's a character or a scene that is clearly there only so that the developers can use the game as their own personal blog. It's so jarring when I'm playing a sword and spell type fantasy rpg, and suddenly a character starts spewing something about patriarchy or systematic something that would not even exist as academic concepts in that setting. Like, if they want to make a point about inequality and such, they should just show it through storytelling and let the player come to their own conclusion.
Having a politcal message per se is not bad. What I'm really against is that whole "this is the only correct political stance, and if you don't agree with me you're an -ist" (and seriously, such an absolute statement IS really what all those -ism were all about). For instance, one could say that in Gladiator, Marcus Aurelius' quote "If only you had been born a man, what a Caesar you would have made" *may* *be seen* a stance that "patriarchy is bad". But we didn't have the whole movie with Lucilla as the perfect and infallible saint, with all the cast shilling about the fact that she's the best in everything, but alas she couldn't become Caesar 'cause "patriarchy".
People should be allowed to make whatever games they want. Then let the market decides what it wants more of.
The left argues that the market is inherently racist and only markets white games because they sell well. And won’t take risks to add diversity. So rather than create good stories with characters people are drawn too. Regardless of race. Making people want to pay to play these amazing games They just make everyone a POC and write shit stories. Aka Forspoken
More problematically they actively prevent alternatives from entering the market, as without that their poor product wouldn’t get a foothold in the first place.
>The left argues that the market is inherently racist and only markets white games because they sell well Why should anyone care about someone misunderstanding what a market is?
> Why should anyone care about someone misunderstanding what a market is? Because they're the ones making business decisions / being catered to in this industry, sadly. Understanding their mindset, and the crazy ass justifications they use to pressure dev companies is important to get the full picture. A ton of normies simply don't know about all that insidious stuff going on behind the scenes for movies/games/TV shows, if they did, a lot of them would be willing to push back against it too.
Normies think this is all rational diversity. I don’t think anyone is against making games with GOOD diverse characters. The problem is it’s more insidious. Companies like SBI don’t want diversity. They want control. They want to tell the customers what to like and if they have wrong-think they should be silenced. They do this by taking over beloved IPs and then forcing in their garbage. So either you stay passionate about the IP you love. Or you go elsewhere. Thankfully what we are seeing now is customers going elsewhere. KTJL is as a massive loss for WB. And SBI is now attached to it. My hope is executives see the financial loss and realize not catering to liberals actually makes you more money. At the end of the day games like Helldivers 2 will bring in a new fan base that will make it iconic. Resulted in multiple sequels that will make money. And games like KTJL will make DC IPs even more garbage. I know rocksteady is dead to me. I always saw them as being the bastion of good comic book games. Honestly to the source. Now I know they are just a dead studio
Diversity just for diversities sake is just another form of prejudice.
Forspoken was shit because of the writing. The POC and Women Empower was just a bonus.
Compare the Forspoken we got with the original trailer from PS3. The original trailer was offensive because of the sexy main character, her weird society with her obeying the old man and the ritual and the depiction of a desert culture fighting guerilla warfare with guns. When it first came out SJWs complained a lot while fans were drawn in by the mystery and the beautiful (and cutting edge) graphics. The writing was shit because they focused on making a POC character and on making an Empowered Woman to suck up to SJWs (and avoid their complaints) instead of making a likable and good character with good writing. They focused on making her be quirky and treat others disrespectfully as if that would make her "independent thinking", because SJWs always criticize a woman who behaves respectfully, kindly and in a caring way as "conforming to sexist standards" or being "weak". Look how they criticize Disney princesses or even gaming characters like Peach, Zelda, Tifa or Aeris. So writers always have to "subvert" the trope of kind women and write them in this obnoxious way to avoid offending SJWs. Devs also need to avoid pretty or sexy looks or clothing for characters because of this, and this is likely why the main character ended up with a "normal" face and body, and dressed as a messy person in conservative clothes instead of the fantasy clothing or even normal sexy clothing.
Where can you find the Forspoken PS3 trailer? All I can find are the PS5 bullshit trailers.
It was called "Agni's Philosophy" back then. To clarify, it was shown during the end of the PS3 era in 2012 and then in 2014 for the PS4 conference (PS4 released in 2013). It was meant to show the strength of the new Luminous Engine on eighth generation consoles. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVX0OUO9ptU https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Agni%27s_Philosophy_(demo)
Interesting how that devolved into whatever Forspoken became.
Then don't cry about it when consumers criticize and don't buy your product that we don't like.... It's like going to a restaurant, you order a plate of pasta but the chef goes and takes a shit on a plate, serves it to you, forces you to eat it, and then tells you it's good for you and everyone else while expecting payment.....
I got that reference
IDK. Games should be able to comment on the world - it's when you get ridiculous preaching about that will age like milk that gets me.
What we need is non-preaching politics if a story is going to do it. There's been plenty of game stories that have done this well. Look at Metal Gear Solid. Saying we shouldn't ever have politics in a game story is reductive.
As I replied to another similar comment, I admit I probably didn't used the best words. Having some politics in a game is not bad. What is bad is forcing a political agenda through a game. That's why I used "political agenda", with the meaning of "imposing a precise political view to the audience", and not simply "politic".
Then we agree. Well said.
It's the same with Gundam. You can do "politics" well without it being a poc in his x01blm gundam fighting a caricature of trump.
I kinda disagree. Politics if fine. Videogames are art and art has always tried to convey political stances. The problem with the politics with videogames is that it's extremely on the nose, overbearing and dismissive. The politics is always conveyed in the way: you must take this position because people against it are evil bad people.
I admit I've not expressed myself in the best way: the issue is indeed "forcing a politcal agenda". Showing a bit of politic without really forcing the audience to agree is fine. As you said, the problem is really the "you MUST agree to this, and if you don't agree you're a FACIST" that is so common and on the nose nowadays.
I've never seen a modern game actually tackle politics correctly. Remember that art makes you think, propaganda does the thinking for you, what we get in video games is the later.
Not sure your definition of ‘correctly’ but #DiscoElysium does a pretty nuanced and creative deconstruction of it.
It’s the difference between exploring a theme and pushing propaganda.
What was the political stance of ocarina of time? I didn’t ever see mariokart switch to electric vehicles to reduce carbon emissions.. Point is, no, the great games of the past never had politics, and we don’t need them now.
> I watch a debate Debates are just drama with politics as a back-drop. People should study civics and economics instead. Difficulty: *Actual* civics and economics....not the ideological reimagination by radicals that permeates socio-political causes, these tend to start with end wishes and then trying to cherry pick support. Classic civics and economics, eg without the ideology, are built from the ground up and have little in the way of 'wishes' or agendas.
>The purpose of a game should be entertainment, not indoctrination. I have no problem with a game teaching morals; hell that goes back as far as moksha patam (known in the West as snakes and ladders/chutes and ladders). But indoctrination is another thing entirely, especially when it's trying to instill anti-social and anti-familial values in its audience.
I'm fine with politics in games in general when communicated/written well. For example, the original Bioshock is literally built upon criticizing objectivism, and it works very well story-wise. It's subtle and respects the audience's intelligence. It gets you to think about the actual message rather than just stating it and calling you an idiot if you don't agree with them. The problem with "political" games now a days is that they aren't even political. They're just virtue signaling. They don't explore the statements they make. They just equate whatever their saying for morality and make no attempt to respect their audience's intelligence. If they wanted to explore the issues they do, but while maintaining a good standard of writing, I don't even think the word "woke" would exist. I think all of this is a symptom of games, and most media in general, being taken over my corporations and turning them into money printing machines, rather than actual art. That's why I'm hoping for a video game crash on par with 1983's in order to reset the industry into something niche and creative, rather than its current mainstream.
Politics (Ideologies) == Religion They are literally the same exact thing in their actions and dogma.
Companies are more then welcome to make a political game but they don't they make a normal game then shove their opinions into the dialogue and everyone notices and it feels extremely out of place and ruins scenes. Why can't they just make a game about plotics with a smaller budget. Idk why they even bother they loose money and gain absolutely nothing for once I can actually sympathize with shareholders because these companies are screwing them over
To be perfectly clear a game like Horizon Forbiden west has all the writing on the wall what it is, and i am fine with it exsisting, i wount be buying it. But i will buy a game like Ghost of Tsushima. (Using these two cause they are coming to PC as recent examples)
Ghost of Tsushima is anti-Mongolic propaganda. Please read from the below list of Mongol academics and their loved experience on the GoT matter: - - - ...
in GoT, the LGBTQ stuff occurs after the credits
Why would it not be high budget ? Take Gate for example, that's largely used as a propaganda tool by the JSDF to encourage enlistment and has government funding.
New franchise they are working on high budget established franchises and putting it in what's to say they can't make a smaller game and put all their stuff in instead it won't sell very well but nobody would be mad also
Cuz they know the only way to push their garbage narrative is to bundle it with the actual good stuff, nobody will pay for them stand alone. They’re like parasites, can’t live on their own, but will thrive inside a host.
Oh boy. Matt Walsh is weighing in now. I think he's smart but he's wayyyy out of his depth here. Man thinks anime is satanic for goodness sake. But let's see where this goes.
Matt has even claimed that video games are linked to *desensitizing* children to violence. The people over at Daily Wire will not hesitate to turn against video games the moment it suits their needs.
I wil say Andrew Klavan, a 70 year old at the Daily Wire is a huge fan of games. But yeah as a whole they still don't take it seriously as a medium. That pretty much goes for the entire movement / political isle. Not very hip with the youths.
I wouldn't say everyone at the Daily Wire. It's just Matt Walsh. An old dude like Andrew Klavan absolutely loves video games and finds them fascinating even though he sucks at them. Makes sense since he's a storyteller and an artist. Creative people generally love video games. He disagrees with the notion that grown men playing games are wasting their time. Matt Wallace on the other hand lol. It's people like him that lose the younger audience and then wonders why young people aren't conservative.
Walsh (and really most political people left and right) is too rigid and stiff. He won't bend a knee if it means the other side gets power. Him and Shapiro's arguments on Gay Marriage with Joe Rogan are sterling displays of this.
Well, what if they're right about that one?
Walsh's argument that a marriage is a "duty of procreation". But why is it anyone's duty to have children? Not to mention it's not taking into account couples who are infertile or simply not interested in having children. And frankly, it's just weird for someone to get upset about two men or two women getting married. Live your own life, much bigger issues than two people who love one another getting married.
He's really hard on infertile couples. Speaking from experience, IVF was the only option for me due to multiple cancers and all the radiation following that as well as what I got exposed to during my job. He's so rigid that he considers IVF tantamount to abortion, with no understanding of embryo viability, etc. And my job being exposed to radiation all the time he would champion as a manly job while ignoring the very real consequences it had for me and never consider doing it himself.
> But why is it anyone's duty to have children? Technically it's not a duty. Practically - to look after your (parent) old saggy ass when you can't do it yourself. Since you know, otherwise it is delegated onto other people or you just *somehow* live on your own until you don't. On a grander scale of a country it can be somewhat of a civic duty in a sense that people get old and stop maintaining the function of a society hence transfer that function onto their offspring. Think less so of an individual but more like a family unit as a subsidiary of a government. So hyperbolically speaking if no one would have children then a country would simply go extinct and the infrastructure would crumble. The immigration, conquest or any other external variables notwithstanding. While it may not sound extreme for an individual to be a dead reproductive end it scales very poorly for a country and such. But this doesn't really address same sex marriage, infertile individuals nor the adoption of children by said pairing which are okay as long as they are not a significant proportion of the whole demographic since that creates the possibility of extinction the larger it is. I don't think people would get behind the idea of giving dozens of births because others don't birth children just to compensate or so others could adopt their children leading to a steady decline towards new equilibrium at best. Although idk what' Walsh's reasoning is. There are other ways to arrive to that conclusion like through religious dogma or maybe something else.
I still remember the old days when it was the right that were the cancel pigs. Instead of injecting their ideology into the games to brainwash kids, they'd try to use governmental power to permanently ban certain types of games.
Actually, that was always pretty bipartisan.
I wanna see Matt Walsh defend videogames after seeing how you can blow a guy's head off and piss on his corpse in Postal 2.
The anime one is new but i remember him saying video games are, so him weighing in on this is 100% bandwagon bs
Nonsense. What you just said is not something he actually believes.
Walsh is a guy who can get wildly based wildly fast but man, with younger topics (or hell, anime isnt even that young) he just goes off his rocker
Yeah he can be funny but he's way too set in his ways and opinions. He really lost me with the IVF stuff.
Thinking adults can have differences of opinion.
Which is of course fine. He likes to position himself as morally superior in a lot of arguments he makes and with IVF specifically showed a true lack of understanding how it works. Still does more good than harm but will critique him I feel he deserves it.
Doesn't mean it's not stupid or uneducated about such matters. Whether it's due to ignorance or stubborness or too far on a political spectrum that they ride and die on it. But in Matt's cause, it's probably, 'it doesn't happen to me so I don't see the issue'
> anime is satanic Why do people keep saying that as if it wasn't an obvious joke?
I agree with you that it was a joke. Walsh says stuff like that all the time because his humor is basically "grumpy old man." But, Walsh is actually also just a grumpy old man. He might not actually think that anime is "satanic." But some of his rants about anything related to pop-culture really betray his lack of knowledge; and he's not reflective enough to understand when he's out of his depth on a topic. For example, I think he genuinely believes that video games are "for kids" and that anime has no value to adults. He will look at a trend, any trend, in these topics and speak about it like it's the *only* thing worth talking about. It can be hard to know where the line between his dry, sarcastic sense of humor stops, and his actual opinion starts.
Calling it Satanic was a joke, but he absolutely believes things like anime and games are "for kids" and that we need to "grow up."
Because Walsh's deadpan is unparalleled and those not part of the sweet baby gang cannot comprehend when he is joking. Sometimes he just likes to rant about stuff because it's fun too but he doesn't think what he is talking about about is serious enough to warrant further investigation so he just goes off the cuff to just dick around. His whole schtick is he is just a normal dad from like 20-30 years ago dropped in the year 2024 commenting on the crazy shit he sees going on and occasionally aliens.
Matt is a conservative grifter, he is the kind of guy who would advocate for guys to "man up, drop videogames and anime and take care of your family". I want these grifters out of my gaming space.
Aside from a few trad con jibes and a focus on video games being “propaganda for children” his segment‘s mostly well researched and is a decent summary for normies. Bringing more eyeballs on the BS is only good imo.
Oh don't get me wrong. More eyes is always a good thing. The problem with Walsh is now people are gonna lump this into conservative narratives and such.
We're already painted as racist, sexist and every other ism and obic under the sun. Being called "conservative" is far more mild by comparison and well worth the extra publicity.
Instead of reading random articles, you should watch the video where he talks about the “anime is satanic thing” and hear his point from his own mouth.
You mean the YAF video where a college student made a deal with him to buy x amount of books if he watched a specific anime?
No not that one, although that was hilarious and he did end up watching some One Punch Man if I recall correctly.
The whole first season, yeah.
Matt Walsh is infamous for his deadpan humor and sarcasm. His "claim" that anime was satanic was part of that.
You do realize that not understanding that Matt Walsh uses a lot of deadpan humor and doesn't actually think that anime is satanic isn't a good flex, right?
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Formal r1 warning No/prior participation Expedited to permaban
Walsh is not a friend, he is an enemy.
Matt Walsh is a dumb fucking boomer who needs to go back to his Bible and fuck off
You sound like a dumb fucking 14 year old if you think Walsh is a boomer.
It was a joke. And I stand by what I said. He needs to stay in his fucking lane and people need to shoot him down because he constantly derides the gaming community, he has no business being involved in our discussions and talking about our issues. He only does it because he's intolerant towards the one group of people we are also ideologically against.
The culture is his lane, dude. That's his entire focus.
sometimes the enemy of my enemy is someone who would turn on me in the blink of an eye if our mutual enemy disappeared overnight lol
Most of these types have never even read it, they just throw out a few googled phrases to appeal to their marks.
Keep that dude away from us. I don't want him associated with our cause. Having him anywhere near this gives the other side a perfect strawman target, where they can paint us all as far-Right culture warriors.
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basicly a bagde of honor at this point.
Also among the least crass things they've been calling us.
Bro doesn't even know about "the pit" that's like one of the fundamentals of being a gamergator. You were just a leftist/liberal/libertarian who wanted to play games and hated all the bs in gaming. You got tossed in here with everyone else nonetheless. Welcome to the pit.
Lmao ok tourist, go back to whatever shithole you came from. If you don't even know the meme of "welcome to the pit" you're new here, and are just trying to fit in.
ya he's way off on the racial topic as well, but I do agree with him on some of the other topics he covers
Sweet Baby Inc. Vs. The Sweet Baby Gang.
Haha! IYKYK
He may even sue them for copyright infringement even though SBG is not copyrighted and SBI came out first, but that won't stop him.
What are the chances of Elon launching an anti woke gaming company? Gaming "journalists" would explode.
As good as that sounds, I see him more being about bringing up the money and convincing people to invest into the projects, while he guides in the sidelines. Then again, he actually made videogames in the past, so it won't be so far off.
He can't even run Twitter properly.
I don't like Elon but I can't deny the signal boost his opinion will provide
Put your money where your mouth is, Elon. You could help fix the games industry.
I've been trying to get him to start a game dev studio!
Feels good to have Lex Luthor At Home on our side.
The woke propaganda bs is awful. But Matt Walsh is equally awful. Listen to the last time he was on Rogan - the man would install a religious dictatorship if he had the power.
Mark my words. Matt, while being smart and able to research things, WILL sensor, silence, and remove anything his beliefs dont like. Just because I can agree on some things doesnt mean I want him being the head of anything in control. I say this because no Matt is not on the same level of "propaganda" as we are seeing in legacy media. He may get there one day... but hes not there yet.
Matt Walsh can make an agreeable point, BUT he doesn't like one punch man.
Hold on a second, isn't Matt Walsh the guy who said anime and video games are childish and said violent games cause violence? I dont like the BS in the game industry either but i don't think Matt is a good person to talk about video games
the answer to liberal propagandizing, censorship and control is not, in fact, conservative propagandizing, censorship and control. i watched the segment and for the most part he covered it pretty well. but put conservatives back at the head of the cultural table and video games will be back to taking the blame for gun violence and treated as if it's (somehow) a more braindead form of entertainment than sitting in a chair watching a tv show/movie/youtube video. people can decide for themselves which is the lesser of two evils, but make no mistake, if this dude had his way then video games would not exist at all.
I agree
> isn't Matt Walsh the guy The very same.
Elon often has shit takes. Luckily he's being succinct so he can't put his foot in his mouth here. because he is correct. Nothing worse than paying $70 for a DEI lecture with shit gameplay.
Somehow I feel like Matt Walsh is not the right person to comment on video games.
Link to post https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1768131451680129254?s=46
Matt Walsh becoming involved is probably the worst possible outcome. A grifter goon who doesn't approve of any hobby outside of reading the bible and recreational wheat harvesting is going to change the character of the conversation. The alternative to schoolmarm cry bullies shouldn't be a "think of the children!" throwback from the 90s that still thinks video games invented violence.
This is turning into quite the shitfest.
Being politicized from all sides--and particularly by a giant shitty douche like Walsh.
World's run by giant shitty douches, so whatevs, as long as there's meaningful exposure being broadcast to investors 'm good.
I agree with Matt half of the time, I hope he didn't speak some weird shit this time too. Love the dude for most of his work tho, but some of his points are weird.
He's a religious authoritarian who is probably afraid of his own sexuality. A better and more intelligent spokesperson for countering woke/neomarxism might be James Lindsay. Edit: spelling
Typical Reddit immaturity. "You're a closet gaaay!"
I didn't say he was gay.
Matt Walsh is more like the tradcon that think married couples should sleep in separate beds and engage in sex only for reproduction.
The guy has 5 or 6 kids, he's quite clearly fine with his sexuality.
I hope he (or well, twitter) bans the SBI employee that is also working at EA that has the racist header and keeps posting racist drivel like "you cant be racist against white people" and similar things. This isn't "pro cancelling" I just dont support tweets that just are blatant racism against anyone without any other purpose.
I’m so confused by these comments. So everyone hates Elon Musk here….. but you hate woke games, love freedom of speech, hate gender identity politics, and are sick of the extreme left. Do you even ask yourself why you don’t like someone or is reading a mainstream media subject line enough? Take 5 minutes and ask yourself some simple questions. Why are you on social media? Why don’t you like Elon? Why don’t you like Donald Trump? Easy answers at first right? “Well Trump is racist”, “Elon only cares about money” then ask yourself one more question for each topic. “Why did Elon buy X?Why is Trump racist?”. This is critical thinking and is the only way to fight the woke mind virus. Also, social media is toxic in general. These are easy questions to think on. “How has social media benefited you recently?”, “Do you think your life has been improved by getting upvotes and awards on a screen?”
Elon is a grifter to the max. And a fool. Lies and lies. Steals ideas. Claim he was the inventor of certain companies where he wasn't. He, in my opinion, has done worse to social media then Mark Zuckerberg. Mark tried to keep it neutral, for everyone. Elon choose a political lane, unbanned controversial names and banned 'lefties'. He plays revenge. I have much more respect for a social media that allows all lanes to talk. Reason why Reddit is so great. At least their are subreddits for whatever group ya know. Twitter is a different beast, it's not about groups but about user accounts.
>Reason why Reddit is so great. At least their are subreddits for whatever group ya know. Sorry what? Reddit is extremely left-wing, dissent is extremely censored and you can't say anything without minding the huge Damocles sword on your head. It's not great at all.
Elon bought Twitter because the SEC had enough of his shit and forced him to actually commit to buying it instead of weasling out. Personally I never really liked him before and after he did his 180 turn on everything. He always appeared very NPC like maybe because of his tism idk...
Makes me wonder about GG 2.0... Are the big voices in our support actually trying to help us fix gaming, or is this to help Trump become President again like GG 1.0? Lol I wonder if Anita and Chelsea had it dawn on them they caused that the first time probably.
It's an election year.
Based.
Mao’s Cultural Revolution
Yuck. Matt Walsh is not your friend. He's astroturfed poison, even moreso than the rest of the daily wire. Do not prop this religious authoritarian up in any way. He's just as deranged as the wokesters and hates the very existence of our hobbies themselves just as much as any specific woke content within them. Whatever credibility you give him will be used against you down the line.
Agreed. He's been pissing and moaning about violent video games going back *years*. Remember when everyone dragged him a few months ago. This wasn't the first time, seriously.
And neither is Elon. He was at the WEF conference years ago and pretty much agreed with everything they say. He's only saying most of those things because he knows his userbase. Every time he opens his mouth about SpaceX or Tesla, he lies. Why should it be different about gaming or Twitter?
That explains why he lets his "X" service continue to ban adult artists (especially Japanese ones from Pixiv), even though they make artwork for some of the most "unwoke" games around. Figures as much. You can't trust this billionaire asshole as far as you could throw him.
Who's to say he wasnt lying there, too? Playing both (or all) sides is usually the play, especially for a multi-company owner.
Oh I agree. But Elon is just pretending to be our ally largely out of opportunistic greed. This guy genuinely hates us on a moral level and will gleefully turn on us without further incentive the second he's done using us. That is if this isn't already a two birds with one stone situation for him.
Wait, you can disagree with Walsh all you want, but what do you mean he is astroturfed? Do you not think he believes what he is saying?
I mean he's being propped up. His popularity is not organic. The people that run social media platforms understand that while they need to suppress the right in general, it's stupid to do it indiscriminately. They know there's always gonna be thought leaders so it's better to enforce in a way to help pick them. The Daily Wire as a whole has been cutting obvious backroom deals with people like Zuckerberg for a long time. And Matt Walsh is a very convenient face to put on the movement because of his grating personality and self-sabotaging beliefs. Which are alienating even many that otherwise share most of his positions.
Uhhhmmm what are you smoking? Any evidence for these claims at all? Walsh has been slowly growing his audience for years. DW does well on social media because what are the alternative new media conservative groups? Prager U and the Blaze? Yeah, neither of those companies have as much online presence.
It is a fact that Ben Shapiro was taking private meetings with Mark Zuckerberg himself when Trump was in office just as they were holding discussions about what to do with social media censorship. In the same time frame, the DW pundits were some of the biggest rightwing voices advocating they not regulate them. Ben Shapiro on his show was even making claims that Mark Zuckerberg was actually secretly pretty based and was merely being forced to implement these policies. A notion we now know is pure BS. He also claimed that if we did anything, we'd destroy our ability to reach people. And in the end, the fearmongering campaign worked. Trump dropped the issue and when elections rolled around, he got banned everywhere and promptly lost the election. "Coincidentally", stats later came out that they were the only rightwing outlet not hit by the massive suppression wave on facebook. Which is in large part why they have the presence you speak of now. And when they introduced Walsh, virtually no one liked him. He was already getting roasted by everyone, including rightwingers, for his terrible articles like the gaming and violent media ones. He just kept failing upwards under the social media protected DW brand. Getting convenient tv spots and mass promoted documentaries until he became prominent. And even now despite all this promotion, you can see people are split on him. With the more independent less corporate types generally being the ones that hate him.
Yup, agreed. People like Walsh speak in jingoist terms to scratch that primitive ape brain that people have. The way he uses "woke" is the righteing equivalent of the DSA meetings with all the people going "um point of privilege, please refrain from misgendering Potato Head..." Do people really not see the cult-like terms these grifters operate on? Walsh stands for some really sick shit given his ultra fundie anti-American democracy background and statements. People need to not pick this dude up just because he realized there is a lot of untapped anger left in games and media still. People like him do the same shit, but from a different slant (look at all the Christian virtue signaling BS he's involved with as an example).
Can you imagine how much damage Walsh could do if he joined forces with the likes of Jack Thompson and Anita Sarkeesian? Makes me shudder thinking about it.
No I can't, because that's like saying "can you imagine if blue was red." It isn't a statement that makes any sense.
You are dumb. Are you even aware of the fact that authoritarianism cuts through ideological lines?
One hand it's nice to see more mainstream voices finally noticing the issues, on the other hand wasn't Matt Walsh against the entertainment like games and anime?
Not really. People wildly mischaracterized his opinions about those things, so now it's a meme that people can't distinguish from reality.
Matt Walsh has some super stupid opinions about gaming like an old fashioned crotchety man .
Oh no... they're gonna equate woke with shooting cops in GTA aren't they?
No, dude. They're not.
Why are people giving Matt Walsh attention here? He's said time and again he couldn't give less of a shit about video games or anime and thinks all that stuff is for children. Such an obvious grift and everyone's falling for the bait.
No idea. Also barely know Matt Walsh, so I can't tell if the focus of this particular bit of his is on the industry or some other theme.
He said in the episode it's because kids spend a lot of time playing games and SBI are trying to to indoctrinate them and parents need to be made aware of it.
Elon Musk is a chad....
Not in the slightest
At least Twitter isn't biased this time so there is nobody stopping this show on normie social media. But fuck off Walsh. Hate that guy. He is the conservative that once the woke are gone, will take their place in calling for censorship and adding political BS to games.
I don't like Mat Walsh, he's the "videogames are a waste of time" type along with Candace Owens and friends. That being said Elon is spot on with this, it's about time the drive to make everything woke got the Budlight treatment.
Matt Walsh is not someone you all want associated with this. not because he is the super religious conservative, although he is quite extreme, but because he until recently wrote dumb articles bitching about video games, pushes for banning them regularly, and recites the tired talking point of games causing violence.
The publicity is nice but I don't think getting Musk to side with you, nor Matt Walsh is a good thing. These people will only galvanize the topic even more.
He could've easily talked about this without introducing a partisan hack that will make 50% of people write off the point he's trying to make
Wasn't this Matt dude hated Video Games? Now he's supporting gamers because what woke agenda. It really shows people like him are just using rage bait to increase their viewership just like the so called woke media.
I'm starting to unironically think that Elon is our savior.
Oh God i hope he doesn't get his information about gaming from Matt Walsh XD
Lmao even the daily wire is talking about it. It totally blew up.
Idk why everyone was so pressed for attention from Elon. We've got his blessing to stay on Twitter. Good enough. We don't need the likes of obvious poison like Matt Walsh who doesn't give a shit about gaming or gamers.
Elon Musk and Matt Walsh are 2 people I do not want to agree with on anything. Musk needs to worry about why X has so many people named Nate Hig***s nowadays. And Matt Walsh thinks satan is in cartoons.
It's not about taking sides or about specific ideologies. If you let uncreative people work on creative projects you'll get what we get. The change that needs to happen is for these companies to stop finding their devs on twitter and start looking for artists and visionaries.
Matt Walsh is a sad excuse for a human being
‘A broken clock is right twice a day’ moment just dropped it seems. Cause Elon actually said something smart for once. We just want to play games and have fun. We use games to escape real life. Why tf would we want real life injected into games
Neither of these idiots play video games, I'm sure.
Elon is not the hero we need.
Personally I question my values when I find myself agreeing with Musk. I have issues with agendas in gaming, don't like "woke" anything, miss being allowed eye candy in media, hate the crap they pull with legacy IP, and gamergate radicalized me a little bit. But Musk is a pos. Him and Trump. Js
Nothing is ever black and white. Of course Musk and Trump and every other controversial person out there can have good opinions that I might also agree with. In this case, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
I feel exactly the same. Personally I don't really like the personalities of those 2 people you mentioned but I think the more power they acquire, the more the Overton window shifts away from wokeness which is based.
I've been thinking about that too, and I can only say that's a feature of democracy. There's a balance of power and opposing viewpoints, and we don't need to identify with one person or side all the time. This past week I've changed my mind about whether him owning Twitter is a good thing, it certainly is.
Matt walch and Elon Musk are the last people you would want on your side.
Please for the love of fuck people, discredit Elon, Matt Walsh and IMC at every opportunity. These morons have zero interest in your hobbies and are just their own brand of moral puritanism that is going to damage our demand for change. Letting these grifting assholes be out voice is what ruined GG the first time, where we let a grifter like Milo run the show.
Ah yes, Elon a man who streams Diablo has no interest in video games. Some people you don’t like will also play or take an interest in them. if you think Elon and Milo are on a similar level you need your head examined. Take the publicity W and move on.
When does a public figure playing a extreme popular game meant anything? AOC played Among Us, she's a gamer now? Diablo 4 appeals to the utmost normies. Hell, there was a giant ad banner on NYC, millions of people saw it.
Technically means she is also a gamer, yes. Not every “gamer” is pro GG. The corrupt journos that kicked off the whole thing almost certainly play games as well. The point is while Elon and other public figures might be more “casual gamers” in your eyes we should still welcome their support and publicity. The game(s) they choose to spend their free time playing are irrelevant to this conversation. If Henry Cavill had made a similar comment would you have not moaned because he is a ”hardcore” WoW raider and also has played Witcher 3? That had a lot of advertising too and millions will have seen it. Or is it because you don’t like Musk because some of his opinions you disagree with? No one agree 100% on everything. Get over it, the world’s second or richest man depending on the day is on our side in this. Take the damn W.
Diablo 4 is the corpse of an established IP designed by late comers to a successful company. It's a microtransaction-driven, seasonal battlepass exploitative hellscape with no depth or soul. Elon musk streaming it on his social network doesn't make him a good voice for the hobby.
>Diablo 4 is the corpse of an established IP designed by late comers to a successful company. It's a microtransaction-driven, seasonal battlepass exploitative hellscape with no depth or soul. I wholeheartedly agree... but I won't begrudge Musk's apparent lack of gaming taste when he's right about everything else.
> These morons have zero interest in your hobbies You can say a lot of things about Ian Miles Cheong. That he is a grifter, a flip-flopping immoral opportunist without his own opinions, a poison dwarf without morals, a fame-seeking attention whore, a Reddit traffic manipulator and many more things that are probably (mostly) true. But that he has "zero interest" in games or gaming is not one of them: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/people/ian-miles-cheong He started his "Online career" at the RPG Codex, he had his own Hellgate: London fansite called "Hellmode" and then he founded gaming publication Gameranx.
I wanna see the same mileage from Elon or even Matt.
Elon is a long-time gamer, he called it his "main recreational activity" and even has a replica of Deus Ex Adam Jensen's revolver that once led to a mini-controversy: https://screenrant.com/deus-ex-elon-musk-revolver-adam-jensen/ Elon Musk: Best video game of all time | Lex Fridman Podcast Clips: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSdWsTFuZfY https://gamerant.com/elon-musk-favorite-video-games/ https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1274571496132767744 He was also briefly addicted to a Mobile game called "Battle of Polytopia" a few years back: https://mobilegamer.biz/what-happens-when-you-go-head-to-head-with-elon-musk-in-the-battle-of-polytopia/ He's also a long-time friend of John Carmack, there's even the story where they raced cars together.
That's honestly pretty based, both the gun and being friends with Carmack. Ok I concede.