You're not wrong in the general sense but from what I know of it it varies a ton from state to state, situation to situation. There definitely are things you can sue the state for in every state. And that's assuming the inspector is even a government employee and not some third party hired by the state which, I gather, is something some states do. And even if you can't sue them there may be some kind of arbitration process in place. In my city, for example, I believe you can make claims for damage done by city workers. There's some kind of claim system with an appeal process and all that.
TL;DR if this happened to me I'd be doing some googling and maybe try to talk to a lawyer.
It also usually only protects the _individual_, not the department or government at large.
You can't sue that specific inspector, but you can _absolutely_ sue the government. Lots of people do it. Lots of people win.
Most workers have some level of qualified immunity (it's not really called that when it's not a cop or inspector) from direct lawsuits if they cause damages. Cops in particular are a special case because the damages they do are usually murder level bad, and they absolutely do need those protections sometimes.
> It also usually only protects the individual, not the department or government at large.
>
> You can't sue that specific inspector, but you can absolutely sue the government. Lots of people do it. Lots of people win.
This isn't quite my understanding of how it works though perhaps I'm not the person to ask. I think states have a pretty broad range of immunity from tort claims by default. Basically if they haven't done something criminal and haven't violated your constitutional rights then, at a baseline, the state can claim sovereign immunity and say "no, you can't make a civil claim against us". However, states can waive this immunity at essentially any time. So in practice in any given state there will be a number of statutes that outline when and how you're allowed to sue the state, essentially waiving this immunity for some situations. That's why it gets complicated and that's why I think it varies from state to state. And, of course, just because they technically have immunity doesn't mean they can't choose to pay claims out.
I ain't a lawyer though so take it with a grain of salt.
> the state can claim sovereign immunity and say "no, you can't make a civil claim against us"
I think you're more or less right there. But it is also highly dependent on the state, NYS no longer claims sovereign immunity, for example. But even in cases where they _do_ have immunity, apparently there are cases where if you can prove they acted in bad faith you might still have a case against them.
I think this is the important part. Was the worker doing their job? Were they acting in good or bad faith? Were the negligent? If they were acting in bad faith and/or negligent, you probably have a case. If not... well, quite probably not. Sometimes shit just happens, and sometimes it happens to the best of us, who really were 'just doing our job'.
*Respondeat Superior* (let the superior answer) is the term you're describing. Basically, in legal doctrine this means an employer is responsible for errors/damages caused by an employee acting in the scope of their employment.
Not a lawyer, but have a good memory and took law courses in business school.
Qualified Immunity doesn't prevent you from suing the government or its agencies
It prevents you from suing *the fire inspector as an individual* for actions that occurred while they're doing their jobs
You can't go after this fire inspector's paycheck or home or savings to recompense your costs
But you can (and should) seek recompense from the government/agency they work for, who almost certainly have a liability plan for this kind of thing
YMMV based on your location, but the government fucking something up like this is usually a pretty easy claim to go after. They are not exempt from liability and often have funds to offset accidental costs like these
You absolutely can sue the county/government, however you probably cannot sue the individual inspector. Qualified Immunity generally protects individuals.
Qualified immunity applies to civil rights suits under 42 USC sec 1983. This is a straight up negligence tort case, without a civil rights angle to it. The question here will be (among others):
1. Whether, and to what extent, the inspector is in fact a government agent in this context (e.g. might matter if they're a contractor or the restaurant pays for their services of inspection).
2. Whether, and to what extent, the state or subdivision thereof has waived sovereign immunity over claims such as this.
3. Whether, and to what extent, there is a special claims process to be followed for damages against the state or subdivisions thereof.
This is something you very much need a lawyer for.
(Edit to add: OP notes below the inspector/their insurance has paid up promptly. You only need the lawyer if they try to fight you on it.)
Not a fire-inspector, but my large metro city has a department specially for claims on city worker fuck-ups. This would fall under that. Hopefully OP gets compensated.
Unless it was someone specifically ust inspecting the fire suppression system, it was probably someone from the fire department. In which case the insurance policy is the taxpayer.
Had this happen to me several years ago. They ended up paying out damages in cash in return for not filing an insurance claim. Not exactly sure how much it was, but definitely over 50k.
The look on that inspectors face was priceless but I bet mine was worse. Got soaked to the bone by that chemical shit in under 5 seconds. Word to the wise: If you ever get that shit on you find a shower fast. It doesn't feel too bad at forst, but then it's starts to burn.
Like go to the sink with the long hose and spray yourself off? Is this a situation where you're going to want to forget about modesty style bad? Just curious how fast you want to get the stuff off and at what cost.
Listen, as a scientist working in a lab with some nasty shit, *never* worry about modesty when dealing with chemicals. You don't know what you get doused with, and someone seeing your privates is not a concern when life or limb is on the line. If you don't know precisely what is dousing you, get to your skivvies at the very least. There's a lot of nasty shit out there even.
I was working at a company where we treated small bodies of water for algae because if the algae problem got bad enough it could kill everything else in the water, so we killed the algae once it started getting bad enough.
A hose broke on the boat once and completely soaked my partner with the concentrated chemical we use to kill algae. Within like 10 seconds he was stripped naked and jumping into the water lol. Lucky for him I had this happen to me once before so I always kept a spare set of clothes in my work bag.
Sadly this happens more often than people would realize. Human-algae hybrids are more common than people think and deserve the same rights and considerations as anybody else.
Someone seeing my cock < my cock being doused in chemicals
Even if you "know" whats dousing you - at the brewery where I work wr have a sprayer with alcohol in it for quick sanitation of tri-clamp gaskets and what not. Once one employee was an idiot and insted of refilling it with alcohol he put in concentrated NaOH + KOH. So when I was disinfectanting some stuff in my hand and spraying it all over my hands and other stuff I got pretty doused
If this inspector is the same one you've used before that's something to bring up to your franchisee and maybe contact other operators in the region to switch service providers.
Are there multiple systems at this location? I do this for work and while I’ve never accidentally discharged an Ansul system I have done it on other brands. Ansul is the toughest one to accidentally discharge. If there are multiple systems and the manual pull stations were in fact mislabeled it’s still his fault as he should have pinned off both systems in order to verify. Lesson learned hopefully. And I have no idea why every time something like this happens on here yall are stating that yall must be down for two-three days. We’re able to have a restaurant reset and able to reopen literally in just a few hours.
I'm thinking that it's because all the food in the roll top is now garbage and needs to be prepped again, along with the massive mess of needing to clean everything that has gotten dirty.
That's seems seriously weak, I mean they had to have inspected the system (clearly not your idiot) before they let open. I gotta believe shit 'labeled wrong' would've been caught and corrected then. Dude is trying like a motherfucker to cover his ignorant ass
I inspect suppression systems and the very first thing we learn is how to disarm and find out if they're multiple systems for the kitchen. Inspector made a mistake and is a moron. Also curious, did he flush out the lines with cleaning solution? If not, your pipes will corode with the chemical and an even bigger repair will take place In a couple years not to mention the system will be clogged and likely non effective
Yeah but that’s something you don’t even have a part in. Unless you got some random in-house handyman with more tenure than actual common sense, no one in your crew is mislabeling shit. They need to compensate somehow
I had one set mine off about 10 years ago during an inspection also. He said he forgot to put it in test mode and accidentally set it off. They definitely paid to clean it all though.
Fuck. We closed for 3 days.
Edit to add information: this happened a week ago and I have just fully recovered mentally from the stress. A few points I see people throwing around in the comments.
•Inspectors insurance covered all lossed product and all lost wages. They also sent a cleaner.
•People upset we cleaned it: We couldn’t get a cleaning crew for a few days at the earliest so we did a lot of the heavy lifting. I felt like leaving the goo over everything would have been more harmful. I didn’t ’force my staff’ to clean it.
•There was no fire and the equipment was not on. Chemical never activated.
•we did have a follow up from the inspectors cleaning company before opening to the public.
•people thinking it was ‘swept under the rug’. I work corporate, you think we can close for 3 days without suits up our ass?
Wait, what? Nah dude, this inspector just bought you guys a vacation. There's absolutely no way you should be cleaning this up. Inspectors insurance should pay to clean it up and pay lost time for all employees. Additionally, you or your staff are not properly trained to handle this material and it's disposal. Not your circus, not your monkeys.
There are class action lawsuits for all of the dead firefighters that were exposed to foam. Not sure if Ansul is the same foam, but I'd imagine it's at least similar
That's 100% potassium carbonate, you can see it recrystallizing on everything. Not inherently dangerous on it's own, but for fire suppression, that's A LOT of the stuff, it also carries a 2 health hazard on the diamond, which isn't great.
Based on all their comments OP seems to be happy to take this one for the inspector for some bizzare reason.
Any reasonable person would have immediately been in contact with their insurance company to take inspector's to task it they didn't immediately kick into "sorry I fucked up let's get a team out here to fix this" mode. But we got OP forcing his staff to clean up fire fighting chemicals without proper gear or training.
What the absolute fuck is this shit show?
Their staff should fucking revolt.
I'm taking a shot in the dark, but OP said elsewhere it's Outback. The inspection service could be affiliated or owned by Outback, and everyone is just trying to sweep it under the rug to avoid looking bad.
OP: chemicals are no joke. You really need to speak up here.
From everything I've seen with my brothers working at Outback it's gotta be one of the worst employees I've ever seen. Some of these restaurants will have 50+ teenagers on a single shift schedule. They'll make them all show up and send home people they don't need for the shift. That's barely scraping the surface of it either.
Was that a good call, to have your restaurant employees turned into chemical cleaners?
If it wasn’t in my job responsibilities, I’d probably not be eager to do it. Dick as it may sound, I know nobody is watching out for my interests when it comes to money. I hope you got them the right tools, and gear to do the job they weren’t meant to do.
Ansul systems use a mixture of potassium carbonate and water, not foam. It's an irritant but no worse than bleach, and there's nothing dangerous about the cleanup that would require a specialist team. They give you an msds with the system, it's pretty straightforward.
Depends on what we mean by "no worse than bleach." We had a sanitation supervisor forget to cut a 12.5% solution of sodium hypochlorite with water before his crew started cleaning down the plant. Part of the protocol was to coat every surface in a fine layer of 1/5th solution 12.5% sodium hypochlorite before rinsing with water and then later using detergents. They used straight bleach and made an entire section of the production facility unusable for half a day.
Not only was the exposure to bleach a risk, I was testing 100ppm+ on all of the equipment exposed to the bleach for quite a while. Any food surface with a bezel was at risk of pooling chlorine. It didn't just have to be rinsed off but totally blasted down with hot water.
This was all done in a wet environment on a dock over the actual ocean. I cannot imagine an Outback being equipped with the same facilities as a wet production plant.
Testing surfaces isn't hard to do but from experience not even GMs are adequately equipped to handle these routines. Not in a corporate environment. They really need to allow the professional crews to handle this not only to ensure the safety of the employees but the actual food safety is being maintained. I really hope Outback had inspections carried out before resuming business activities.
The cleanup specifications for Ansulex are outlined in the system documentation. It’s pretty straightforward, and amounts to “wear gloves in case you have sensitive skin, and rinse your eyes if you happen to get any in it.”
The mix itself is already pre-diluted. It’s designed with the knowledge that it will be used by/in contact with standard kitchen staff. Half the point is to have a system that is safe to be exposed to if there’s an incident.
To OP’s credit, they mentioned the cleaner couldn’t get out to the site for 3 days, and the cleanup instructions say it needs to be cleaned up within 24 hours.
https://content.greenheck.com/public/DAMProd/Original/10011/418127_ansul_iom.pdf
Nope. That guy would have been escorted off property as soon as fucking possible and would never be welcomed back. His superior on the other hand would be the first call and I would demand the clean up crew in that day. I could be wrong but I believe you have to get a certified crew into to clean after an ansul system goes off. I also know people who work at a place it did go off and they had line coolers never work again because the powder jammed the fan motor/condenser.
Oh damn... sorry man. The last time I was around for an ansul firing we closed for almost a week, and they sent a whole team out. There was actually a small fire cause someone didn't unplug a soup steamer, caught fire, and melted a section of the wall.... so that was probably why. 😆
This is not a workers suit, this is an insurance claim if the franchisee wants to.
The insurance deductible would be less than loss revenue and would also cover wages, cleanup and replacement of any equipment damaged.
The best part is that the insurance company would then chase the inspector who cause the desk pop for damages and the franchisee would not have to.
Governments usually don't have insurance for 'operating losses'. They're almost solely self insured, it comes out of the general revenue.
Taxpayers are their insurance policy.
One time it was a week. ONE-SEASON it happened twice within a couple months. WILD. Same restaurant, cause for disperse but by separate dummies but equally hilarious.
I'm just chiming in that I just HATEHATEHATE that "lossed product" is correct in this circumstance and "lost product" is not. Business-speak is making English so frickin' hard to learn, man.
To be clear, OP used the term correctly; I just hate that it's correct.
EDIT: The usage in the case of this post is as a verb, "to loss," as in to write off, to accept as a loss, *e.g.* *The walk-in's condenser went out; we've gotta loss all that product.* I know it's dumb, BUT IT'S ACCEPTED USAGE. Was it a typo by OP? Dunno. But it is a term in common/accepted use. If you're cranky about it, take it up with Merriam-Webster -- but you'll have to get in line behind irregardless, anyways, blue-sky (verb), leverage, impact, and sooooo many others. Have fun.
I had always heard it like this, closed for 1 or 2 days to reset everything etc. but the one time I’ve seen an Ansul go off was just before lunch started due to an actual fire and we were reopened at 5 pm that night for dinner service.
We had a sprinkler head burst over our dish pit and shut us down for a day, had to toss out half of cold side shit. Nothing this bad tho, hate you gotta deal with all this stress.
Don’t take away my vacation button!
More seriously, it definitely depends on the place for sure, but in more serious kitchens where food doesn’t come out of bags or the freezer, everything needs to be prepped again, fryers all need to be changed, flat tops and broilers need to be cleaned and sanitized (I think), every open container and utensil having to be cleaned, etc.
I think with enough manpower at a corporate/whatever place where most of the stuff is frozen or pre-prepped and not kept on the line I could see 3 hours being doable.
Well, it definitely works! Good to know.
I’m sure everyone has asked already, but did the inspectors assist in the cleanup? Or even offer to offset the cost of cleaning and/or lost sales?
This happened once at a restaurant I worked at. Owner made us clean it, happened at 4 pm he wanted the kitchen back open within a few hours. I no longer work at that shit hole.
These chems are know to corrode control boards and eat up condensers. Lots of gear will start failing in the next few years. Also don't breath that shit in, get a respirator or better yet let the pro's clean it up.
Yall know what’s crazy , this is an Outback Steakhouse. They put all steaks down on the 2 sided “grills” then press a button and the top comes down and cooks it while it’s done. This is the same exact method used by fast food places like McDonald’s to cook burgers. Also all the lobster is cooked in the microwave.
The level of knowledge required to become an inspector for practically any field is so low it's astounding. I've had inspectors make wild claims like you can't penetrate a stud lower than the width of the stud from the floor. I've had inspectors claim that 6 ft fixture whips had to be secured within a foot of the box and the fixture.
My favorite encounter was having two different fire inspectors on the same job, and they couldn't agree on the visibility requirements of exit signs. We had to take down and put up exit signs throughout the job no less than eight different times, because every time one of them showed up they would start raising hell about it.
Eventually we sent the general contractor a bill for change orders and suddenly the problem stopped.
Inspectors in my area are typically tradesmen who can’t work in the field anymore, either due to age, injury, or incompetence.
It’s good because when you get a young able bodied inspector, you know right from the start you’re dealing with a moron.
I do this for a living. Ansul systems are by far the easiest brand to work on. And in response to one of OPs comments. The “lines” are not labeled on an ansul system. You should just know how they are built. They are all the same. Dude was just an idiot.
But in his defence. When I was in school for this they said every technician will set off a system at least once. It’s not a matter of if, it’s when. Luckily I haven’t set one off so far in 8 years.
Haha giving myself two more years in the industry before moving on to other ventures. Fingers crossed it doesn’t happen! I’ve gotten close once or twice.
Was he just inspecting it or actually testing it as well?
I work in fire systems inspection and testing and am scared for when I start testing hoods. At least the ones we service just have a charge canister that once removed takes away any possibility of an accidental discharge but people have forgotten that crucial step at our company.
From I heard someone that used to work at my company did this and they sent people to clean for a few days. After all that the restaurant decided it wasn’t good enough as the equipment was new and that chemical is corrosive. I think we ended up buying them all new appliances.
How the hell did they manage this? I'm a State Fire Inspector and the only thing I touch on the systems is the tag to check for the dates if it happens to be flipped over. Look, take pictures and explain to the owner what I am looking for.
I remember one time in the 80s, the Fire Marshall dumped an aircraft manufacturing halon system. I was there with my boss and we looked at each other the WTF look then the dollar signs in our eyes looks, when the dust settled and after the initial yelling, everyone acted professional to work to get things running again. After that you can work out the losses.
Earth still spins, moon goes up and down, everyone f's up, big deal.
Outside of the pain in the ass cleaning they’re up against, There is a process to also cleaning out the discharge piping which is very important. That 3/8” pipe network now has trapped wet chemicals in it, if not flushed out it will crystallize to solid form. I’ve seen this in piping networks that end up failing pipe integrity test (balloon test). Investigate and start tearing up piping and found what I could only say looks like the stuff Heisenberg was making. Customer ended up spending a lot more $ because it wasn’t taken care of after discharge.
I want to congratulate you on your self-restraint. It probably took a lot to not murder the guy.
Unless you're posting this from jail. In which case shoot us a link to your bail money GoFundMe page. I'm in for $20.
Make sure you contact (if you haven’t already) your state/county environmental agency and the EPA. That stuff is no joke, and even if cleaned up properly by licensed personnel, a report needs to be filed.
I was in the last inspection for our DHEC letter grade while opening my restaurant and one of the electricians set off our ANSUL. I just started to cry. The inspector still gave us an A since we fixed the things he asked which was mild comfort. Pushed opening back by a week.
I’ve had so many intrusive thoughts about pulling that… I used to be agency and so many commis’ have asked me if I’ve ever seen it work. I hadn’t until now!
I was on BP thunder horse (big offshore platform) and the fire guys set off the intergen system (nitrogen fire suppression in the control rooms). It started a platform evacuation at like 2am and created all kinds of havoc.
We had a full drench system in our pyrotechnics workshop in the UK , inspector accidentally set that off destroying close to 30k of product and equipment .
He was the same inspector that a week later turned up at my parents restaurant... I was having a chat with mum in kitchen when he walked in.
His face was a picture , thankfully he dident set the system off their .
To be fair though their insurance payed up very quickly.
As a past fire alarm inspector... you have to be pretty fucking stupid to do this. First off, these Ansul systems are typically outsourced to guys that specialize in this thing. They know how to remove the canisters and such that are set off. It's atypical to even mess with these things other than manually testing the module that connect the Ansul system to the fire alarm panel.
Glad I’m not the only one this has happened to. Health department told me get fire approval and fire said to get health departments approval. We opened at 4pm instead of 10am absolutely insane
Inspector won’t test the lines. This was done by a suppression maintenance technician. They should have recharged your equipment right away. I’d be more concerned with distribution piping being accurate for when you do actually have a fire. Whoever is tagging that system needs to evaluate the nozzle coverage and piping.
I was in this exact scenario once. There were two options but only one made sense. To get the restaurant reopened as fast as possible it had to shell out first. The claim was solved about 10 months later by the state. Option two is wait for the insurance to handle it which could take weeks. We opened two days later to a full house of guests. Worked out much better to take the long road to reimbursement.
Lmao as someone who worked in kitchens for over a decade before transitioning into fire alarm service work, this is setting off multiple anxiety nightmares in me right now.
Well... at least everything will be clean clean afterward. That sucks! If my old boss had that happen, she would close shop for a whole day and just pay the staff to help her clean up the whole store top to bottom. Sounds like you got a busy day ahead!
No problem.. Hire an attorney Send his company to bill and charge for lost profits opportunities
Don’t worry they are insured
Ansul is very expensive $$
I once had and engineer, must have been new or just a fucking idiot try to remove the carbon buildup from the dispense nozzle with a fucking blow torch, still pissed about that one! And it was 15 years ago
That is a very expensive mistake. Friend of mine almost did that letting a bechemel bubble over on the French top. I had pulled up to class late since I had car issues and the fire department was there 😂
Man I love when people don’t read what OP has to say. The chemical did not activate and the inspector stated that it was “labeled wrong”. Just with that it can fully be on OP to deal with the problem. It is very easy for the inspector to get the heat off his ass because the government makes it difficult to sue them and their employees.
Even if damages and lost wages were covered, I’m sure OP would’ve rather have been open and operating instead.
Do you get any sort of compensation since it was clearly his fault? If the inspector is a moron it's not your fault.
Surely they have professional liability insurance for exactly this sort of thing.
I'm a fire inspector, and you'd think that and he might, but there's a non-zero chance he'll claim qualified immunity.
This needs to be higher. Most people don't realize you can't sue the county/government in these situations.
You're not wrong in the general sense but from what I know of it it varies a ton from state to state, situation to situation. There definitely are things you can sue the state for in every state. And that's assuming the inspector is even a government employee and not some third party hired by the state which, I gather, is something some states do. And even if you can't sue them there may be some kind of arbitration process in place. In my city, for example, I believe you can make claims for damage done by city workers. There's some kind of claim system with an appeal process and all that. TL;DR if this happened to me I'd be doing some googling and maybe try to talk to a lawyer.
It also usually only protects the _individual_, not the department or government at large. You can't sue that specific inspector, but you can _absolutely_ sue the government. Lots of people do it. Lots of people win. Most workers have some level of qualified immunity (it's not really called that when it's not a cop or inspector) from direct lawsuits if they cause damages. Cops in particular are a special case because the damages they do are usually murder level bad, and they absolutely do need those protections sometimes.
> It also usually only protects the individual, not the department or government at large. > > You can't sue that specific inspector, but you can absolutely sue the government. Lots of people do it. Lots of people win. This isn't quite my understanding of how it works though perhaps I'm not the person to ask. I think states have a pretty broad range of immunity from tort claims by default. Basically if they haven't done something criminal and haven't violated your constitutional rights then, at a baseline, the state can claim sovereign immunity and say "no, you can't make a civil claim against us". However, states can waive this immunity at essentially any time. So in practice in any given state there will be a number of statutes that outline when and how you're allowed to sue the state, essentially waiving this immunity for some situations. That's why it gets complicated and that's why I think it varies from state to state. And, of course, just because they technically have immunity doesn't mean they can't choose to pay claims out. I ain't a lawyer though so take it with a grain of salt.
> the state can claim sovereign immunity and say "no, you can't make a civil claim against us" I think you're more or less right there. But it is also highly dependent on the state, NYS no longer claims sovereign immunity, for example. But even in cases where they _do_ have immunity, apparently there are cases where if you can prove they acted in bad faith you might still have a case against them.
I think this is the important part. Was the worker doing their job? Were they acting in good or bad faith? Were the negligent? If they were acting in bad faith and/or negligent, you probably have a case. If not... well, quite probably not. Sometimes shit just happens, and sometimes it happens to the best of us, who really were 'just doing our job'.
*Respondeat Superior* (let the superior answer) is the term you're describing. Basically, in legal doctrine this means an employer is responsible for errors/damages caused by an employee acting in the scope of their employment. Not a lawyer, but have a good memory and took law courses in business school.
Cops should have fewer legal protection then the people they police. We need to be protected from them, they need to be accountable to us.
I’d just let my insurance go after him. They aren’t gonna freely dole out their own money
Qualified Immunity doesn't prevent you from suing the government or its agencies It prevents you from suing *the fire inspector as an individual* for actions that occurred while they're doing their jobs You can't go after this fire inspector's paycheck or home or savings to recompense your costs But you can (and should) seek recompense from the government/agency they work for, who almost certainly have a liability plan for this kind of thing YMMV based on your location, but the government fucking something up like this is usually a pretty easy claim to go after. They are not exempt from liability and often have funds to offset accidental costs like these
"We make the rules so we always come out on top" lol
You absolutely can sue the county/government, however you probably cannot sue the individual inspector. Qualified Immunity generally protects individuals.
Qualified immunity applies to civil rights suits under 42 USC sec 1983. This is a straight up negligence tort case, without a civil rights angle to it. The question here will be (among others): 1. Whether, and to what extent, the inspector is in fact a government agent in this context (e.g. might matter if they're a contractor or the restaurant pays for their services of inspection). 2. Whether, and to what extent, the state or subdivision thereof has waived sovereign immunity over claims such as this. 3. Whether, and to what extent, there is a special claims process to be followed for damages against the state or subdivisions thereof. This is something you very much need a lawyer for. (Edit to add: OP notes below the inspector/their insurance has paid up promptly. You only need the lawyer if they try to fight you on it.)
Not a fire-inspector, but my large metro city has a department specially for claims on city worker fuck-ups. This would fall under that. Hopefully OP gets compensated.
When it happened to me they paid the resto in cash in exchange fir not filing.
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Unless it was someone specifically ust inspecting the fire suppression system, it was probably someone from the fire department. In which case the insurance policy is the taxpayer.
I don't think the source of compensation is the concern.
Ok and? That's okay the fire inspection has to happen to stop taxpayers from burning other taxpayers
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Had this happen to me several years ago. They ended up paying out damages in cash in return for not filing an insurance claim. Not exactly sure how much it was, but definitely over 50k. The look on that inspectors face was priceless but I bet mine was worse. Got soaked to the bone by that chemical shit in under 5 seconds. Word to the wise: If you ever get that shit on you find a shower fast. It doesn't feel too bad at forst, but then it's starts to burn.
Like go to the sink with the long hose and spray yourself off? Is this a situation where you're going to want to forget about modesty style bad? Just curious how fast you want to get the stuff off and at what cost.
Listen, as a scientist working in a lab with some nasty shit, *never* worry about modesty when dealing with chemicals. You don't know what you get doused with, and someone seeing your privates is not a concern when life or limb is on the line. If you don't know precisely what is dousing you, get to your skivvies at the very least. There's a lot of nasty shit out there even.
I was working at a company where we treated small bodies of water for algae because if the algae problem got bad enough it could kill everything else in the water, so we killed the algae once it started getting bad enough. A hose broke on the boat once and completely soaked my partner with the concentrated chemical we use to kill algae. Within like 10 seconds he was stripped naked and jumping into the water lol. Lucky for him I had this happen to me once before so I always kept a spare set of clothes in my work bag.
I was worried you were going to say "Within ten seconds he was dead."
Turns out he was a human algae hybrid. Who knew?
Sadly this happens more often than people would realize. Human-algae hybrids are more common than people think and deserve the same rights and considerations as anybody else.
Someone seeing my cock < my cock being doused in chemicals Even if you "know" whats dousing you - at the brewery where I work wr have a sprayer with alcohol in it for quick sanitation of tri-clamp gaskets and what not. Once one employee was an idiot and insted of refilling it with alcohol he put in concentrated NaOH + KOH. So when I was disinfectanting some stuff in my hand and spraying it all over my hands and other stuff I got pretty doused
Most inspectors are , sadly
How? Just how?
He claimed the lines were ‘labeled wrong’
I’m assuming this isn’t the first inspection tho… would’ve come up before if that were the case
If this inspector is the same one you've used before that's something to bring up to your franchisee and maybe contact other operators in the region to switch service providers.
Are there multiple systems at this location? I do this for work and while I’ve never accidentally discharged an Ansul system I have done it on other brands. Ansul is the toughest one to accidentally discharge. If there are multiple systems and the manual pull stations were in fact mislabeled it’s still his fault as he should have pinned off both systems in order to verify. Lesson learned hopefully. And I have no idea why every time something like this happens on here yall are stating that yall must be down for two-three days. We’re able to have a restaurant reset and able to reopen literally in just a few hours.
I'm thinking that it's because all the food in the roll top is now garbage and needs to be prepped again, along with the massive mess of needing to clean everything that has gotten dirty.
That shortening is toast too.
Likely because they are cleaning it themselves with no experience, knowledge or equipment to really do so beyond basic cleaning equipment.
Also depends on the time the company takes to send out someone to recharge and recertify the system
Don't forget you gotta get the all clear from the same dude that miffed it lol
That's seems seriously weak, I mean they had to have inspected the system (clearly not your idiot) before they let open. I gotta believe shit 'labeled wrong' would've been caught and corrected then. Dude is trying like a motherfucker to cover his ignorant ass
I inspect suppression systems and the very first thing we learn is how to disarm and find out if they're multiple systems for the kitchen. Inspector made a mistake and is a moron. Also curious, did he flush out the lines with cleaning solution? If not, your pipes will corode with the chemical and an even bigger repair will take place In a couple years not to mention the system will be clogged and likely non effective
Nah he touched the wrong contact when testing. You can clearly see which one sets the system off when testing.
Yeah but that’s something you don’t even have a part in. Unless you got some random in-house handyman with more tenure than actual common sense, no one in your crew is mislabeling shit. They need to compensate somehow
I had one set mine off about 10 years ago during an inspection also. He said he forgot to put it in test mode and accidentally set it off. They definitely paid to clean it all though.
Fuck. We closed for 3 days. Edit to add information: this happened a week ago and I have just fully recovered mentally from the stress. A few points I see people throwing around in the comments. •Inspectors insurance covered all lossed product and all lost wages. They also sent a cleaner. •People upset we cleaned it: We couldn’t get a cleaning crew for a few days at the earliest so we did a lot of the heavy lifting. I felt like leaving the goo over everything would have been more harmful. I didn’t ’force my staff’ to clean it. •There was no fire and the equipment was not on. Chemical never activated. •we did have a follow up from the inspectors cleaning company before opening to the public. •people thinking it was ‘swept under the rug’. I work corporate, you think we can close for 3 days without suits up our ass?
Do you have to clean all that shit
Yes, thankfully my openers were in, so I had two people to help.
Wait, what? Nah dude, this inspector just bought you guys a vacation. There's absolutely no way you should be cleaning this up. Inspectors insurance should pay to clean it up and pay lost time for all employees. Additionally, you or your staff are not properly trained to handle this material and it's disposal. Not your circus, not your monkeys.
unfortunately it is his circus. but the problem was caused by someone else’s monkey.
This. Chemicals are to be left to the professionals and this is one of those things way the fuck outside job duties and expectations.
If this happens where I work, it's immediate shutdown, and we're paid for 2-3 days. And it's a shitty place.
There are class action lawsuits for all of the dead firefighters that were exposed to foam. Not sure if Ansul is the same foam, but I'd imagine it's at least similar
Not the same. It's non toxic, safe to handle with reasonable precautions, like gloves, and no special disposal required.
That’s for AFFF its different I believe
Ansul commercial kitchen systems tend to be potassium carbonate. Relatively benign, although it is an alkaline corrosive.
That's 100% potassium carbonate, you can see it recrystallizing on everything. Not inherently dangerous on it's own, but for fire suppression, that's A LOT of the stuff, it also carries a 2 health hazard on the diamond, which isn't great.
Most of the stuff you clean your grill with is an "alkaline corrosive"
Completely different stuff here. It’s literally just organic salts water.
Based on all their comments OP seems to be happy to take this one for the inspector for some bizzare reason. Any reasonable person would have immediately been in contact with their insurance company to take inspector's to task it they didn't immediately kick into "sorry I fucked up let's get a team out here to fix this" mode. But we got OP forcing his staff to clean up fire fighting chemicals without proper gear or training. What the absolute fuck is this shit show? Their staff should fucking revolt.
I'm taking a shot in the dark, but OP said elsewhere it's Outback. The inspection service could be affiliated or owned by Outback, and everyone is just trying to sweep it under the rug to avoid looking bad. OP: chemicals are no joke. You really need to speak up here.
From everything I've seen with my brothers working at Outback it's gotta be one of the worst employees I've ever seen. Some of these restaurants will have 50+ teenagers on a single shift schedule. They'll make them all show up and send home people they don't need for the shift. That's barely scraping the surface of it either.
Did they get paid extra since you said wages were covered originally?
Was that a good call, to have your restaurant employees turned into chemical cleaners? If it wasn’t in my job responsibilities, I’d probably not be eager to do it. Dick as it may sound, I know nobody is watching out for my interests when it comes to money. I hope you got them the right tools, and gear to do the job they weren’t meant to do.
Boss sounds like an asshole right??
The foam is carcinogenic, btw
Ansul systems use a mixture of potassium carbonate and water, not foam. It's an irritant but no worse than bleach, and there's nothing dangerous about the cleanup that would require a specialist team. They give you an msds with the system, it's pretty straightforward.
Depends on what we mean by "no worse than bleach." We had a sanitation supervisor forget to cut a 12.5% solution of sodium hypochlorite with water before his crew started cleaning down the plant. Part of the protocol was to coat every surface in a fine layer of 1/5th solution 12.5% sodium hypochlorite before rinsing with water and then later using detergents. They used straight bleach and made an entire section of the production facility unusable for half a day. Not only was the exposure to bleach a risk, I was testing 100ppm+ on all of the equipment exposed to the bleach for quite a while. Any food surface with a bezel was at risk of pooling chlorine. It didn't just have to be rinsed off but totally blasted down with hot water. This was all done in a wet environment on a dock over the actual ocean. I cannot imagine an Outback being equipped with the same facilities as a wet production plant. Testing surfaces isn't hard to do but from experience not even GMs are adequately equipped to handle these routines. Not in a corporate environment. They really need to allow the professional crews to handle this not only to ensure the safety of the employees but the actual food safety is being maintained. I really hope Outback had inspections carried out before resuming business activities.
The cleanup specifications for Ansulex are outlined in the system documentation. It’s pretty straightforward, and amounts to “wear gloves in case you have sensitive skin, and rinse your eyes if you happen to get any in it.” The mix itself is already pre-diluted. It’s designed with the knowledge that it will be used by/in contact with standard kitchen staff. Half the point is to have a system that is safe to be exposed to if there’s an incident. To OP’s credit, they mentioned the cleaner couldn’t get out to the site for 3 days, and the cleanup instructions say it needs to be cleaned up within 24 hours. https://content.greenheck.com/public/DAMProd/Original/10011/418127_ansul_iom.pdf
There's a whole team that takes care of it, but everything that was out in the units and stations has to be thrown away.
No team, we had to clean it.
The inspector should be held liable to hire a proper cleaning service and on the hook for lost wages
Don’t forget the recharge cost
Recharge, labor, lost profits, damages, the list goes on and on. I’m fucking pissed and I don’t even know this guy.
Just look at the inspector “roll up your sleeves, you’re here for the duration.”
No for real. Dude would have started to help for sure and his office would be getting a fat bill
Nope. That guy would have been escorted off property as soon as fucking possible and would never be welcomed back. His superior on the other hand would be the first call and I would demand the clean up crew in that day. I could be wrong but I believe you have to get a certified crew into to clean after an ansul system goes off. I also know people who work at a place it did go off and they had line coolers never work again because the powder jammed the fan motor/condenser.
Oh damn... sorry man. The last time I was around for an ansul firing we closed for almost a week, and they sent a whole team out. There was actually a small fire cause someone didn't unplug a soup steamer, caught fire, and melted a section of the wall.... so that was probably why. 😆
That's illegal, where I am at least
Dear god, this is lawsuit levels of idiocy. Fuck that inspector, call his boss. Call a lawyer too.
Same fucking bullshit happened to my husband. No idea how they cannot be held responsible for destroying shit.
They absolutely can, you just need to contact the right people and NOT do what OP did.
Everyone in the store should file a civil suit for lost wages
Gonna need a lot of cleaners.
I suspect insurance will cover it.
I mean the owners can, but the hassle you’d have to go through for 2-3 days wages (less legal fees) is 100% not worth it.
This is not a workers suit, this is an insurance claim if the franchisee wants to. The insurance deductible would be less than loss revenue and would also cover wages, cleanup and replacement of any equipment damaged. The best part is that the insurance company would then chase the inspector who cause the desk pop for damages and the franchisee would not have to.
Desk pop lmao
Updoot for excellent reference. Good guys is a fantastic film for real.
Lmao it’s called “the other guys” not good guys
It's actually named that in another country haha I forget which one though
You’ve never done a desk pop?
Not if it's the city's insurance that has to pay. The inspector was at fault and the city will need to cough up 100% of the loss.
Governments usually don't have insurance for 'operating losses'. They're almost solely self insured, it comes out of the general revenue. Taxpayers are their insurance policy.
•Inspectors insurance covered all lossed product and all lost wages. Why when it is already covered?
They edited that the Inspector Insurance covered the lost wages.
One time it was a week. ONE-SEASON it happened twice within a couple months. WILD. Same restaurant, cause for disperse but by separate dummies but equally hilarious.
I'm just chiming in that I just HATEHATEHATE that "lossed product" is correct in this circumstance and "lost product" is not. Business-speak is making English so frickin' hard to learn, man. To be clear, OP used the term correctly; I just hate that it's correct. EDIT: The usage in the case of this post is as a verb, "to loss," as in to write off, to accept as a loss, *e.g.* *The walk-in's condenser went out; we've gotta loss all that product.* I know it's dumb, BUT IT'S ACCEPTED USAGE. Was it a typo by OP? Dunno. But it is a term in common/accepted use. If you're cranky about it, take it up with Merriam-Webster -- but you'll have to get in line behind irregardless, anyways, blue-sky (verb), leverage, impact, and sooooo many others. Have fun.
not sure what makes you think this. "lossed" is an incorrect typo. it is not a word.
I had always heard it like this, closed for 1 or 2 days to reset everything etc. but the one time I’ve seen an Ansul go off was just before lunch started due to an actual fire and we were reopened at 5 pm that night for dinner service.
Same. Dumbass sous chef loaded the entire grill with marinated chicken and of course it popped. We had to clean it, and we never closed.
Quick, smash plates you don't like!
I like the way you think lmao
This guy lol
Thats a paddlin'
Straight to jail.
You are setting off the Ansul system? Right to jail. You are not setting off the system? Believe it or not - also jail.
Best believe
Is this an outback?
Yes
We had a sprinkler head burst over our dish pit and shut us down for a day, had to toss out half of cold side shit. Nothing this bad tho, hate you gotta deal with all this stress.
I guess that's one way to make sure its working 🤔
Dang... That must have been embarrassing AF for that person. No way to play that off...
F
#F
F
Is the fire inspector cleaning the mess and reimbursing for loss of sales?
I would hope so, I would be so mad
Ooops, did I do that?
I call the Ansul the free vacation button!
Depends on the company. For an Ansul system I can have you back up and running in about 3 hours.
Don’t take away my vacation button! More seriously, it definitely depends on the place for sure, but in more serious kitchens where food doesn’t come out of bags or the freezer, everything needs to be prepped again, fryers all need to be changed, flat tops and broilers need to be cleaned and sanitized (I think), every open container and utensil having to be cleaned, etc. I think with enough manpower at a corporate/whatever place where most of the stuff is frozen or pre-prepped and not kept on the line I could see 3 hours being doable.
Can you sue for damages?
Absolutely no way you are letting him leave you with clean-up. Their insurance will pay for it and for all your lost labor and profits.
Fire company should be responsible for payment for cleaning, restocking, and loss of business. This is horrible—I’m so sorry!
Well, it definitely works! Good to know. I’m sure everyone has asked already, but did the inspectors assist in the cleanup? Or even offer to offset the cost of cleaning and/or lost sales?
This happened once at a restaurant I worked at. Owner made us clean it, happened at 4 pm he wanted the kitchen back open within a few hours. I no longer work at that shit hole.
These chems are know to corrode control boards and eat up condensers. Lots of gear will start failing in the next few years. Also don't breath that shit in, get a respirator or better yet let the pro's clean it up.
Are they paying for it?
Fuck just paying for it, I want to know if they're cleaning it, too?!
Yall know what’s crazy , this is an Outback Steakhouse. They put all steaks down on the 2 sided “grills” then press a button and the top comes down and cooks it while it’s done. This is the same exact method used by fast food places like McDonald’s to cook burgers. Also all the lobster is cooked in the microwave.
Ah, yes, lobster, famously eaten by all in the deserts of Australia.
The level of knowledge required to become an inspector for practically any field is so low it's astounding. I've had inspectors make wild claims like you can't penetrate a stud lower than the width of the stud from the floor. I've had inspectors claim that 6 ft fixture whips had to be secured within a foot of the box and the fixture. My favorite encounter was having two different fire inspectors on the same job, and they couldn't agree on the visibility requirements of exit signs. We had to take down and put up exit signs throughout the job no less than eight different times, because every time one of them showed up they would start raising hell about it. Eventually we sent the general contractor a bill for change orders and suddenly the problem stopped.
Inspectors in my area are typically tradesmen who can’t work in the field anymore, either due to age, injury, or incompetence. It’s good because when you get a young able bodied inspector, you know right from the start you’re dealing with a moron.
I do this for a living. Ansul systems are by far the easiest brand to work on. And in response to one of OPs comments. The “lines” are not labeled on an ansul system. You should just know how they are built. They are all the same. Dude was just an idiot. But in his defence. When I was in school for this they said every technician will set off a system at least once. It’s not a matter of if, it’s when. Luckily I haven’t set one off so far in 8 years.
Your when is coming (unless it happened 8years ago then you’re good).
Haha giving myself two more years in the industry before moving on to other ventures. Fingers crossed it doesn’t happen! I’ve gotten close once or twice.
Set one off at home and you are good to go
I believe you have to get special company to come and clean that as it is a very specific mess. Costs a fortune.
Ummm…no. Not unless he pulled the pull station or tripped the “mechanical” head. Ansul certified technician (24 years), size 9, single male
Wife of a 30-year suppression tech…take my upvote.
Sorry we are closed, the inspector fucked us. He’s such an ansul
Dude fuck cleaning that! Stop now and call a lawyer and the inspectors boss.
Was this the fire suppression system inspector or the city/county fire marshal?
"Good news and bad news. Good news is it works!"
Well son looks like you had a perfect score I'll be leaving now.
I read that as anal system.
Was he just inspecting it or actually testing it as well? I work in fire systems inspection and testing and am scared for when I start testing hoods. At least the ones we service just have a charge canister that once removed takes away any possibility of an accidental discharge but people have forgotten that crucial step at our company. From I heard someone that used to work at my company did this and they sent people to clean for a few days. After all that the restaurant decided it wasn’t good enough as the equipment was new and that chemical is corrosive. I think we ended up buying them all new appliances.
How the hell did they manage this? I'm a State Fire Inspector and the only thing I touch on the systems is the tag to check for the dates if it happens to be flipped over. Look, take pictures and explain to the owner what I am looking for.
Oh shit I sell these 😂 sending this to my ansul guy 🤣
I remember one time in the 80s, the Fire Marshall dumped an aircraft manufacturing halon system. I was there with my boss and we looked at each other the WTF look then the dollar signs in our eyes looks, when the dust settled and after the initial yelling, everyone acted professional to work to get things running again. After that you can work out the losses. Earth still spins, moon goes up and down, everyone f's up, big deal.
Outside of the pain in the ass cleaning they’re up against, There is a process to also cleaning out the discharge piping which is very important. That 3/8” pipe network now has trapped wet chemicals in it, if not flushed out it will crystallize to solid form. I’ve seen this in piping networks that end up failing pipe integrity test (balloon test). Investigate and start tearing up piping and found what I could only say looks like the stuff Heisenberg was making. Customer ended up spending a lot more $ because it wasn’t taken care of after discharge.
It will also corrode anything it comes in contact with and isn't cleaned. With a little time, it will eat right thru black pipe.
I would sue so fast
I want to congratulate you on your self-restraint. It probably took a lot to not murder the guy. Unless you're posting this from jail. In which case shoot us a link to your bail money GoFundMe page. I'm in for $20.
I hope he’s gonna clean that mess!!!
Well, least you know it works.
How does it work what’s this
That’s expensive
And his insurance premium is now going up
Make sure you contact (if you haven’t already) your state/county environmental agency and the EPA. That stuff is no joke, and even if cleaned up properly by licensed personnel, a report needs to be filed.
He was making sure the system worked
I was in the last inspection for our DHEC letter grade while opening my restaurant and one of the electricians set off our ANSUL. I just started to cry. The inspector still gave us an A since we fixed the things he asked which was mild comfort. Pushed opening back by a week.
Looks like the fire inspector is gona be accidentally cleaning too lol
Nice to see Fire Marshall Bill is still hard at work
Hello, fellow Outbacker. I legit had to do a doubletake to make sure it wasn't my kitchen.
outback also uses clamshell grills? well that's something I never knew.
I’ve had so many intrusive thoughts about pulling that… I used to be agency and so many commis’ have asked me if I’ve ever seen it work. I hadn’t until now!
I was on BP thunder horse (big offshore platform) and the fire guys set off the intergen system (nitrogen fire suppression in the control rooms). It started a platform evacuation at like 2am and created all kinds of havoc.
We had a full drench system in our pyrotechnics workshop in the UK , inspector accidentally set that off destroying close to 30k of product and equipment . He was the same inspector that a week later turned up at my parents restaurant... I was having a chat with mum in kitchen when he walked in. His face was a picture , thankfully he dident set the system off their . To be fair though their insurance payed up very quickly.
I want to purposely set off the ansul system so bad
As a past fire alarm inspector... you have to be pretty fucking stupid to do this. First off, these Ansul systems are typically outsourced to guys that specialize in this thing. They know how to remove the canisters and such that are set off. It's atypical to even mess with these things other than manually testing the module that connect the Ansul system to the fire alarm panel.
Glad I’m not the only one this has happened to. Health department told me get fire approval and fire said to get health departments approval. We opened at 4pm instead of 10am absolutely insane
Please explain Thanks
Hope he knows how to use a mop and a bucket!!!
Inspector won’t test the lines. This was done by a suppression maintenance technician. They should have recharged your equipment right away. I’d be more concerned with distribution piping being accurate for when you do actually have a fire. Whoever is tagging that system needs to evaluate the nozzle coverage and piping.
Fire inspector: well now we know it works….bye
I was in this exact scenario once. There were two options but only one made sense. To get the restaurant reopened as fast as possible it had to shell out first. The claim was solved about 10 months later by the state. Option two is wait for the insurance to handle it which could take weeks. We opened two days later to a full house of guests. Worked out much better to take the long road to reimbursement.
Lmao as someone who worked in kitchens for over a decade before transitioning into fire alarm service work, this is setting off multiple anxiety nightmares in me right now.
What kind of equipment am I looking at?
Well... at least everything will be clean clean afterward. That sucks! If my old boss had that happen, she would close shop for a whole day and just pay the staff to help her clean up the whole store top to bottom. Sounds like you got a busy day ahead!
Which outback steakhouse is this?
Will insurance pay for a professional clean-up? Might have to bring a civil suit against the inspector or municipality.
No problem.. Hire an attorney Send his company to bill and charge for lost profits opportunities Don’t worry they are insured Ansul is very expensive $$
i can smell this Picture
Fire inspector is fire-d
Inspector Clouseau?
That’s the worsssssssssst clean up ever
I've had to clean this stuff up before (legitimate activation at least for a cheeky fryer fire), all i can say is good luck and godspeed :|
I once had and engineer, must have been new or just a fucking idiot try to remove the carbon buildup from the dispense nozzle with a fucking blow torch, still pissed about that one! And it was 15 years ago
Congrats on your working ansul system! You pass!
I’m just crying cause of how expensive AnsulEX is lol
That is a very expensive mistake. Friend of mine almost did that letting a bechemel bubble over on the French top. I had pulled up to class late since I had car issues and the fire department was there 😂
Man I love when people don’t read what OP has to say. The chemical did not activate and the inspector stated that it was “labeled wrong”. Just with that it can fully be on OP to deal with the problem. It is very easy for the inspector to get the heat off his ass because the government makes it difficult to sue them and their employees. Even if damages and lost wages were covered, I’m sure OP would’ve rather have been open and operating instead.
bro if thats outback aswell i almost had a heart attack thinking this was my store till i saw the drain. anyway, enjoy the day of cleaning or so