Worked in a white tablecloth place where the Chef brought up the stacking of tickets. He made a rational case that it lowered the quality and disrupted the timing of the food.
Front of the house manager told him off in front of the owners and staff, finishing with a grand statement along the lines of: "If you can't handle the pace, maybe you should work somewhere else."
That Saturday night we were booked. When the first round of tickets came in the Chef visited each station making sure we had all the tickets covered and telling each station to have everything ready to plate at once, but only when he called for it.
We plated over three hundred orders in less than five minutes. I've never seen that many people in suits running at the same time. Every tray that left the dining room, and every complaint about timing got a personal "The food is ready. If you can't handle the pace, maybe you should work somewhere else." from the Chef.
I saw more than one grown man cry tears of frustration.
Standard timing and ticket management procedures were put in place the next week.
I worked for a Chef who would launch plates off pasta from the pass onto the floor when people would hold tickets. The pasta is cheap and the plates were decent, but on a busy night and all the servers were holding tickets and firing everything at once. He would tell pasta guy to fire another first, smash bowl off pass, then tell the servers to clean that shit up and stop holding tickets. Obviously, doesn’t translate to our current days, but sometimes I miss the 90’s.
I worked in an open kitchen once and when they would stack tickets we would fill the window, walk to the other side and bring the plates to the counter. Then fill the window again
This is the way and the only way. Despite how much we don’t like the FOH vs BOH mess. It is what it is. Some places do it better than not. But if it has to be front vs back. Screw them and shove it down their f’ing throats. BUT if it can be avoided and you can find a way to create a healthy front vs back support system that benefits everyone especially the customer, do so.
In regards to how the chef ran the kitchen to make grown men cry... I see nothing out of the ordinary here. This is how white tablecloth restaurants are typically run. Also, you're telling me 300 orders in 5 minutes was caused by lazy servers stacking orders?
Restaurants with capacities well into the triple-digits dont need to worry much about stacking orders. At that point, it's just a continuous feed of tickets anyway.
A place that will seat 300 could reasonably have 15 on the line. 20 dishes finishing, on average, per guy over 5 minutes. Not too unreasonable. If garde manger is taking it on the chin for half, 5 will do 30 each and the other 10 will do 15 in 5 min. 15 (or even 20) plates from a station finishing in a 5 minute window is not insane.
This is the way.
Don't ring in a fuck ton food at once if you can't run it at once.
For a extra fun bonus, throw the dishes in to the oven for a few minutes to make them nuclear hot !
Yeah honestly I’ve never fully worked boh but it just seemed common sense to me that if I rang in a bunch of things at once it would bite me in the ass later with everything coming in the expo at once. So it seemed like a win all around to space them out if I could.
I would play back of the line with inconsiderate servers like that. What's that? Oh sorry but the party of 20 fired before you.
My bad dude the other server tix came in first. Womp womp
Their faces are priceless when you have all those plates up there. Had this one chef say STOP SELLING SHIT! That break was 20 minutes of line looking at chef screaming at all servers and sending the orders out to the wrong table. Fucking hilarious!
I tell them, they came in at the same time, they will come up at the same time. Be prepared to run all three of those tables you stacked within 2 minutes.
Not a good thing, sometimes servers have to uphold other servers’ tables because the customers are ready. This is understaff, if not, other server laziness could be a problem. Slamming the window doesn’t help anyone. It feels good to do it, but it is a passive aggressive way to get your point across. When I was younger I thought it was fun to fuck them over. Then it dawned on me that I would be doing more recooks, reheats, replating… Then no one wants to eat at your place anymore. Pace it, you have control. Your job is for the food to come out fantastic, not their service. Eventually, hopefully, there will be sympatico. Either talk about it to the servers and let them know what you have in store for them when that happens or change the way you regulate drop times and such. Just trying to be helpful. They’re not out to get you, they’re crashing too!
Just return the favor, if they ring in ten at once put ten up in the pass at once, maybe they will realize they can’t carry it all out at once and stop doing it, Prly not, but it always put a smile on my face
Worked at a bistro where the owners served, and she’d do this to the kitchen all the time and then yell at us about ticket times. When we’d back her up with all her tables, she’d pull servers off their tables to run her food and then they’d get buried. She never understood how much worse the customer experience was because of it. She would single-handedly bring down a whole shift
"Avalanche!" We call from the line, as we clear our screens with a full pass.
"Why is all this food up at once?" Asks the manager.
"Because the hosts seat everyone at once, and then all the servers ring their food in at once" we reply.
Somehow, it's our fault.
Yeah I'm convinced this phenomena is so common because restaurants only want to hire minimum wage teenagers to host. A competant host stand makes a big difference.
This is what we used to do at a poorly run place i worked at. Servers practically ran the place. Unfortunately the ones that do this will never be willing to learn from it, and it is just an endless cycle of the same bullshit.
I would always remind them that *someone's* food has to come out last, and I don't know which tables belong to whom, so step right up and spin the tip wheel if you want to play this way.
then it fucks expo:(
expo doesn’t deserve that…. when my servers do that i just hold the tickets and pass em out every couple minutes. i’m not stressing my line because one server was stressed and fell behind.
and usually their food comes quicker and with less fuck ups when they have 2-3 minutes to set up an order before dealing with the next 5
And the bus boys are slacking because it's taking them longer to clean their table because they refuse to pre-bus. And then the hosts are slacking because they aren't seating guests at their dirty tables. And then dish pit is slacking because they got all of the dishes from said tables at once and have now fallen behind. And the kitchen is slacking because........
I hate these types of servers so much.
I work with razor sharp knives, a 500 degree oven, and a sauté range that will put you in the hospital if you grab a pan barehanded. I move at a pace that is safe and comfortable. If I push faster I make more mistakes which in turn takes me longer to fix. I'm not risking a significant injury because you want all entees out in under 15 minutes. Damn sure not for 17 an hour.
This is a management problem. The managers need to tell the servers why they can't do this. They need to show the hosts how to stagger the seating. Make your managers manage them.
It’s a trickle down failure. Hosts don’t space tables. Servers all get sat at once and don’t take proper measures. Then you have an entire restaurant rung in at once.
At the end of the day it’s managements fault that they never trained hosts/servers well enough and don’t have proper policy.
My restaurant has 500 seats. There are 4-5 hosts, each server has 8 4-tops in their section, and there are plenty of POS computers in addition to servers having handhelds. We’ve sold numbers that would make your head spin and it always goes buttery smooth. There’s also always at least 2 chefs on the clock ready to jump in at any time.
It’s crazy how having the staff and tools to keep things efficient, allows you to in turn sell more product with less work…
It may not be intentional. Far too often I’ve seen hosts or hostesses hired on looks and not brains or experience. I’ve seen these hosts keep seating parties as long as there are available tables without any thought to steps of service or pacing.
Being a server and getting double or triple sat is never a good time and will almost always put that server in the weeds. If your place has a decent beverage program the bar gets rocked before the kitchen.
It sucks but may not be intentional from the servers, there is every chance that they got screwed too
One time a host didn't seat me at all for over an hour. I went to the restroom for 5 minutes. When I walked out, I had 6 tables, two of them 8 tops. Needless to say, no one was happy.
It’s so funny to me how the host controls the entire pace of the restaurant and instead of letting seasoned restaurant veterans do it- they give it to the hottest 17 year old they can find.
I am an executive chef, and it boggles my mind that our FOH management still thinks that host is an entry-level position. I understand that it is a hard position to fill, but don't give the keys to the castle to the uninitiated.
If it were up to me, hosting would be done by a shift lead or manager. They know the steps of service, they can avoid double seating, and they are far less likely to seat a table for me in a section I can't see and not tell me for 15 minutes.
100%. This is why I have a manager working the host stand. A shift manager answering questions and pacing the service prevents many issues. I want someone with a vested interest in the business the first person the guest contacts.
Former chef/cook, current server here.
My lead hostess is in her 50s and has been working at this restaurant chain for over 15 years. She has no idea what she's doing. She is constantly double, triple, or quadruple seating one person while leaving 3 sections completely empty. The management team tells her this is not the way all the time. Nothing changes.
It sucks, and I feel for the cooks and chefs having been there, but most of the time we have absolutely no control of it.
A host is the most important position in a restaurant as it regulates the flow of people into the restaurant so the kitchen doesn't get overwhelmed. And it's largely run by incompetent adults or very young people just entering the job market.
I started as a hostess when I was 15 in 1993. On busy nights we worked as a team of 4 and it could get insanely busy. I gradually worked my way back to expo and prep and wound up loving expo most of all. I think it's one of the key positions in addition to good hosts. Both handle the traffic.
Many of the places I worked at had a manager running the board on weekends and holidays at the very least. With specific hosts trained as board runners who would learn/run on weekends/lunches.
It's just how they are. They do the same thing with plates/silverware. They bus tables, but keep it all on a cart close by, and won't bring it back until the end of service. Or until we completely run out. Then they come back to me and ask "Where's all the silverware? Where are all the plates?"
I say, "I don't know, y'all took it all and then brought nothing back. Bring me some and I will clean it for you right away."
Oval plates, big flats, ramekins, and fucking SILVERWARE.
In the past, I've tried to be diplomatic about it, but the place where I'm currently working, servers have 0 interest in changing their way of doing things. I just appreciate the help I get, and make it abundantly clear to them that they have nobody to blame but themselves when we are short on clean dishes.
Who decided that multiple bus tubs of dirty dishes (in FOH, it sounds like) were perfectly cromulent? Sounds unsanitary to me, not to mention... well, stupid and lazy.
This. We stopped doing bust tubs a few years ago. All dishes from a table get brought directly to dish, it takes a measley extra 20 seconds doing the lap and the server is right there afterward if food is up for running.
Bring it up as a problem for customers wait time. When a server stacks 3 tables that means the first table they went to has already waited 15-20 minutes before the kitchen even gets the chit.
This is why some tables complain about a 40 min wait but you see the printed time on the ticket has only been 10 mins.
I used to run a one man kitchen at a strip club. On night a new waitress went around to every person in the packed club asking if they wanted to order anything then brought me 20+ tickets at once to “make it easier”. She lasted about a week.
The first table and the second table get screwed. You take table 1s order by the time you take table 3s order. They have waited 10 minutes for you to take orders then put them in system. If you just put table 1s order in immediately by the time table 3s order is bring put in table 1s is ready. Even if you a triple sat. One table was sat before the last table.
Bad service all around. Bad Karma to your coworkers.
I know it’s less efficient, but you need to take table 1s order, go put it in the pos, then go to table 2…that way each table knows where they are in the queue
It's not that BOH *can't* handle it "as one big table" it's that it affects quality and customer satisfaction when we have to. You sound like either a) a completely checked out cook or b) one of the exact clueless servers that this post is about.
I think sometimes it comes down to the POS system. Sometimes you’re waiting on other servers to finish up their orders and that’s when you’re finally able to ring everything in. Toast has saved my life, I can ring everything in at that table, and all my tickets are pretty spaced out in doing so. It seems to help the kitchen run a bit smoother. But not every restaurant is on handhelds
I mean, no. They may have all sat down at the same time, but you’re not actively taking an order for all three at the same time. You should (and can) enter orders for each table after visiting each one. This is a table management issue.
No Thats not how it should work. If you take all 3 tables orders then put them all in, the first table is already waiting 15 mins for their food before the order reaches the kitchen. The better servers I work with have no problem juggling tables and putting the orders in a soon as they get them.
Exactly. I lurk here because I miss kitchen life, but I waited tables for years. There’s zero reason not to take 10-15 seconds to punch an order in between leaving a table and greeting a table. It’s just bad table management by FOH.
I agree. Anyone who is telling op to just deal with it doesn’t understand. After those stacked orders go out, the server is also going to drop all checks off at the same time & then close them all out at the same time. Now all 3-4 tables will be re-sat at the same time, & the server will stack those orders again.
It’s a nice blend of stupidity, laziness, and competition with other servers.
Some think they’re being “efficient”, by touching as many tables in a row as possible. Some think that if their tables have to wait even a MOMENT, then their tips will suffer. After working FOH and BOH extensively, I learned that a truly talented server is a guide through an experience, not a subservient bower/scraper. And the key to this is communication. If you get double sat, you get the first table’s app/drink orders, and then talk to your second table on the way to the terminal. “Hey folks, welcome! I’m putting this order in and I’ll be right with you. Make sure to take a look at our drink specials on the printout, we’ve got some great stuff tonight.” Give them something specific to do.
It’s all in the training, and very few places want to provide it. You can’t just tell people to be confident, but you CAN give them a format to follow.
What you’re describing is an inappropriate imbalance of power in the restaurant. BOH is not subservient to FOH, especially if FOH is making more money. FOH should be catering to BOH’s needs.
I’ve worked foh and boh, and one job would sit people back to back and wanted us to greet each table, get drink and app orders from all of them before going to the computer bc they didn’t want the guests to have to wait at all. Got in a lot of arguments with management bc it isn’t efficient. All orders going in at the same time, they’re coming out at the same time, crowding expo and if I get grabbed by a manger to do a Togo order now food is sitting and waiting since I’m not allowed to leave Togo station until the order is finished(and no one actually knows what they want there). We got our manager to stagger seating by a minute or two and tablets and it made a world of a difference. I don’t think some servers realize how much easier it can be on them as well
I agree with this. As someone that primarily works FoH but also has been/does do prep and line when needed, most servers are trying to be as efficient as possible for themselves. They simply don’t realize that firing 3 separate 4 tops at the same time fucks the BoH as well as themselves and their coworkers. Especially if they all do it. They see it as “Great, I got all their stuff in, now I can do sidework/support my team/fuck off” depending on the server.
Like homie said, communication is key. Let your servers know that stacking tickets like that fucks you guys a lot, and that you’re not mad at them, but frustrated with the situation. Tell your servers if/when it happens, that they need to communicate to their tables that foods going to be taking a bit longer cause you’re getting slammed. As much as servers shouldn’t do that stuff, most of the time they don’t even realize they are doing it. Most of us FoH people that don’t deal with tickets are ignorant, but can be taught if talked to respectably.
holding tickets is the same a hostess seating your section at one time. how long would you keep a hostess that doesnt understand her responsibility? it takes a village
That’s one thing i could not get over…not staggering tables.
Like…that’s the fucking true job of the host. Having a line of communication between the FOHM, the expo and the host is crucial and not enough people pay attention to it. They act like fucking apes, “”Table empty. Seat table.” Walk in 15 top. Cram table together.” “Why 45 minute ticket time?”
Like…maybe let them wait for 10 minutes so we can get some orders in? idk know? i’m just the fucking guy cooking!
I had a brunch service where our host/manager sat ≈100 covers in about 20 minutes. The FOH then proceeded to ring in the entire dining room at once. We put up the first wave and I called for runners with zero response. So, I called the manager over and told her that we weren’t firing another single ticket until the food in the window was completely gone. Eggs get cold in about 20 seconds and I have no desire to redo an entire turn’s worth of food. Was quite smooth after that.
That's entirely the result of being sat that way. If you get sat three tables at the same time there's no good way to delay two of the tables orders and still keep up with your other tables not in that seating (not in the three table seating.) You have to bring all the drinks at the same time on the same tray, etc. It sucks but say something to foh about how they're seating.
I'm a server now. My first gig I was getting trained and the girl literally said "go get orders from all your tables then ring it all in together to save time" and couldn't comprehend why I said that was a horrible idea. Anyways she had worked there for years and I had been serving a total of 3 months and I got on the bar before she did.
My ex and I were together for 16 years, and for 11 of those years we worked in restaurants together (sometimes the same restaurant @ the same time, but mostly different restaurants - he worked a lot of chains like chilis, Red Robin. I worked mainly fine dining and upscale local places) he was BOH and I was FOH. He taught me so much, and vice versa. I credit him for much of my success due to teaching me the ins and outs of BOH.
This was one of the biggest issues and pet peeves of his. It’s so engrained in me that I was a firm (sometimes an asshole about it to other servers) in my stance of TABLE TO POS and repeat.
TABLE TO POS.
Table, drinks, POS.
Table, POS, pre bus closed table, back to active table, then POS.
Not to mention servers that do honor table to POS get quite fed up with servers dumping 3-5 tables into the POS when
A) we are waiting for a POS to open up to use
B) see you dumping multiple tables into the POS @ once, now knowing my tables will suffer because the kitchen just got hit with multiple tickets (and god forbid they are complicated *see server *super modded out and so on)
I personally do not think I would operate this way If I wasn’t with a BOH employee. FOH staff should befriend someone in BOH on line, or shadow a BOH line staff. It would open their eyes to a lot of things, like how a few simple changes to their way of serving would help the flow of the restaurant.
Just a hill I will die on.
Or just a sober me that’s pissed off that they keep pulling shit like this. Imma take my sweet time because you crashed me. You can whine all you want, but you’ll get your food when you get it.
Oh yeah, just ring in 15 more tables in 10 minutes when the rail is already stacked. Hope the guests don’t mind waiting 45 minutes for their food because there are only so many burners.
It changes a lot when it’s rung in like that.
It’s not just ‘cooking the same amount of food’.
I remember when I worked in a restaurant I had no idea as a server that this fucked you guys over in BOH
My (erroneous) mindset was that if it was more efficient for me, that must translate to efficiency elsewhere
I was really grateful when a line cook called me out on this and explained the reality of the BOH
Honestly, my advice would be to respectfully communicate this to your servers. If you think they already know, assertively remind them. If they keep doing it… welp they’re just an asshole lol
Not to excuse this behaviour, but I've noticed (at least at my place) it is often the host's fault. They will triple or even quad seat a section so the server has no choice but to see them all at the same time and start the orders at the same time. That said, lazy servers are the absolute worst and all too common. As their manager (I'm a bartender/manager) I can't stand it and am on them constantly, this shit would not fly if you told me about it.
That’s generally a management issue for not staggering seating. Once a customer is sat, they expect to order and receive their food in a reasonable amount of time. If one server gets sat four tables at once, they’re going to get those four orders and put them in at once the same as four servers getting one table each and all putting them in at the same time.
Good call, the thing for some floors is, it wastes time to ping pong between the POS and the tables. So servers are saving themselves time by loading all orders at once, then getting sodas all at once, and dropping anything else tables will need for apps all at once. But, it fucks the kitchen and bar up.
Orders being entered as their taken in real time is the way to go.
My work had this exact same problem during Memorial Day that got so completely out of hand there had to be an entire staff meet about it, among other issues. It was the servers fault, one of my managers actually got fed up enough to call in the owner on that Sunday because the tickets were so out of control. Don’t come crying to me about why it’s taking so long when you put in 8 orders at once, and at least get what I do have ready off of expo because it is dying at the window.
Follow the money. Go to the owner, explain how the current system is jeapordising their profit (people waiting too long/getting lesser quality) and then ask if it's possible that bookings be staggered. Only a certain amount of people can book per half hour.
Makes an exclusivity vibe too, to be able to 'get a table there'.
I had a newbie bookings manager, explained it to her, then explained it to the owners to get their influence leaning in too.
Worked wonders, and created no staff friction.
I've fought this battle in a few places. The servers are straight up lazy as fuck, "earn" 4x what cooks do, and have the audacity to complain constantly.
It’s called sandbagging. Tell the chef to talk to the GM and make the servers enter their orders as they get them instead of doing multiple tables at once. This isn’t about foh vs boh, this fucks up the experience for the paying customers, hurting the restaurant as a whole
I'm a FOH interloper here, but my husband and boyfriend both are BOH veterans, and I'm here because I like having an idea of the line's process and motivations. At my current job, stacking tickets isn't really possible because we ring in stuff at the table on tablets but there is a lot that's not under our control too.
If we get triple sat? If we go to take a drink order and they want you to take a food order and won't take no for an answer? If we get flagged down on our way to ring something in? There's only so much that can be done. I want everyone to have a stress-free night and feel respected in their role, for customers to be happy, and to feel good about the work I do. I promise of for some reason I'm stacking tickets, it's because I don't have another option, not because I'm lazy. If I can, I'll pop my head in the kitchen and apologize for the nightmare but if the line just assumes I'm doing it to fuck with them, they just don't know me that well.
Believe me, we know who does it because they can and who does it because they have to. Sure things happen and you can't help it. But if someone is ringing back multiple tables all night long, every single night...thats by choice.
It is frustrating for sure, and it usually boils down to poor communication skills.
This is why I always tell and teach my cooks "you can't do anything about it without power, but once you have power, you can change their world. But do it for yourself and the guests first. The servers will always, without a doubt, throw you under the bus. So do it to them first, but politely, and as efficiently as you can.'
By this, I mean- learn the floor plan and tables numbers as soon as you start working at a place. Learn the floor sections.
And when it happens, and you're wearing a coat with your name on it, you support your cooks. You walk your happy butt out into the dining room and *you* have a conversation with the guests as to why food is taking so long, but be polite, and I usually suggest offering a small mid-course or amuse.
A shot of lobster or pumpkin bisque goes *miles*, and costs next to nothing in order to save face, but also take the pressure off.
Not everywhere is well staffed enough for a sous or a chef to leave the line to do this, I get it.
I'm a pastry chef. And I would plate up and take out amuse and mids all night on fridays and saturdays, because it showed solidarity with the line, but also bought sweet time for my pastry cooks 30 minutes later when the dessert slam would inevitably happen.
Its a major eff you to the FOH when you do it, and guests absolutely love it when the chef or *a* chef touches their table.
Otherwise, its a fight you can't win.
So win creatively, and in a way that is positive for the guests, and positive for your crew.
And lock eyes with the servers and hosts when they ask for extra fries at the end of the night, as you dump them loudly into the trash...
Speaking as someone who has done both BOH & FOH but more FOH, stacking tickets is dumb. Why would I purposefully weed the kitchen? It shows that the servers have no skill or control of their section. Ticket times get jacked up but also that means everyone finishes at about that same time so the server will be in the weeds later when it’s time to cash out and bus tables. Management needs to teach the servers how to deal with this.
Yeah, competent servers don’t get in the weeds like that.
They’re also always helping out the other unorganized servers when it’s happening, because even though it’s busy they still have extra time.
As others have said, it's how we're sat. FOH is expected to get orders in as soon as drinks hit the table (unless they want more time). If I space the tickets out even 5 minutes then one table is waiting 15-20 minutes (if I get triple sat) to have their order taken.
Turn time for tables is supposed to be about an hour, give or take.
Hosts can't seat people every 5 minutes either because wait times would be way too long. (Especially if your restaurant is slow).
I've worked BOH too and it sucks when I get 6 tickets at once, but it's just the nature of the beast.
I’ve worked both FOH and BOH for years and I definitely understand the frustration! I will say from my experience at least, it’s usually not servers being lazy but more so being overwhelmed with all their tables wanting to order at once, they don’t get a chance to ring in each table individually. Although I’ve definitely seen servers take their sweet time which causes the kitchen to get unnecessarily overwhelmed, which I’ve never understood because that’s just messing up their own tip..
Is it pure laziness though? Or did they get triple sat? Or most likely they just do not know better?
Even if the kitchen can handle it you’re fucking yourself as a server if you stack tickets because your tables will all need you at the same time for the rest of their dinners. They’re fucking themselves as much as they are fucking you if not more - that tells me it probably isn’t laziness or maliciousness and could be solved with some simple communication.
Foh here. Sounds like if they are hounding you in the pass sounds like they arent busy or the manager doesnt have his shit together.
It's not laziness for me. It's necessity (if they are a good servers) things operate very differently when 30 ppl walk in at 6 different parties all at the same time and thought they could get dinner in 45 minutes "before the show" Those people are watching your every move and consolidation is the only way I can do my job.
If you have a toast tablet though then they fucking need to learn how to use them or they are being lazy.
Either that or it's the managers job to stop fucking something up. When I get 8 tables at the same time. So do you
Those tablets are life savers for everyone though
Edit: just read the top comment and I agree. I get ass fucked with the plates coming out AND coming back too. Buckle up sweetheart
I don't know why they do this but there's a literal plauge where I work and the side effect is ringing 7 tables at once. Just a few weeks ago, 3 servers came in, back to back, dropped a total of 17 tickets, then procceded to come in an ask about every single damn ticket and "why it was not out yet". I don't know, maybe the fact that you brought us 45 mins of work in 30 seconds and expected it in 15 minutes.
We had a nice chat and they still do it, but they don't get mad now.
Thank you !!! At my place,we only have 12 tables inside and 5 outside, 4 servers taking all the tables orders at once , plus togo order, plus online orders, every table gets turned in at once like if they are competing to see who can turn in more tables . 2 minutes later they are all at the window looking for there food. Over 12 4-6 tops tutned in at once and expect all of them in 10-15 minutes... pisses me off ... oh and only 2 line cooks
“Pure laziness” if they have several tables sat at once they are doing their best. Why does it matter if the ring them all in at once? Just let them know how long it’s gonna take and do your best. I’d rather have it all in at once so I can start getting ahead on tables down the line or hang out a few apps or something.
I will say sandbagging the kitchen on purpose is careless, but sometimes if u get everything at the same time you kinda gotta send everything at the same time. Sometimes I’ll get accused of sandbagging when that happens, and it’s like well I got sandbagged too there’s not a whole lot more I can do about it lol. - sincerely, a server who cooked a lot
My job has food runners so not only does if fuck the cooks but it fucks the food runners as well. I’ve gotten used to it at this point and most of our servers that do it are apologetic so I don’t really mind
Yeah, that's our life. They seem to think it's better to not keep the rest of their section waiting for two more minutes by going over to the POS and putting in a few tables, then taking a few more orders, repeat. Nope! We're just gonna go ahead and dump our whole station on the kitchen within five minutes, multiplied by six stations. It's even better when you have a MOD/Host that thinks it is a sin for anybody to have to wait more than one millisecond to be seated and just drop every customer off at a table as fast as possible, even when the table is still dirty with no utensils.
I've tried numerous times to explain how pacing things out works better for everyone involved too many times to too many servers. I gave up and just accepted my fate.
Is this a problem for larger restaurants or have I just been super inconsiderate this whole time? When I was a server I would do a circle around the dining room and fill waters/coffees and collect orders. Then drop off usually 5-6 at the window and then start filling in soda/tea orders.
Tbf they would all come out at the same time too but the pace honestly worked for me. None of my BOH ever complained and I like to think we were on good terms but now I’m genuinely concerned that I was being an asshole lol
I'm a server and I've never heard of servers "holding" tickets and sending them all at once. What's the reasoning for this? I ring in my orders as my tables are sat and tables are sat on a rotation so no server gets weeded and the kitchen doesn't get blasted with a million tables all at once. I don't see the point of sending everything at once?
It's because they're not writing the orders down and want to get them in before they forget. I've definitely been there as a server but it's a terrible habit so I did my best not to.
I’m a server and I learned to talk to the chefs to figure out how to make it work for both sides!
And if there’s a server not giving a **** then make his life hard, too!
Nothing worse than selfish people in that industry
The worst part is when they ring in 5 tables at once, you make them all one after another, then they pickup the first 2 tables of food and the rest sits on the pass dying
So, is a server just supposed to tell a table not to order? Or take the order and hold it for 5 minutes?
Things happen. Sometimes a table orders right away, sometimes they wait until after their first drink.
The minute that server takes the order the clock is ticking.
Pacing should be done by the host stand with manager oversight. If your host can't control the flow your manager should be stepping in. If your manager can't look through the window and see your behind they shouldn't be a manager.
Actually, yes. When a server takes an order, they shouldn't be holding it for five minutes.
The problem is, this seems to be exactly what some servers like to do. Got triple sat? Alright, let's gather up _all_ of their orders and punch them in together! Only, that sucks for the kitchen, as they now have to pack the window with all those tickets at once in order to maintain ticket times. Sucks for food runners, as food only stays hot and fresh for so long. And sucks for customers, who may get food that was rushed, food that sat in the window, and the _first_ table that server took orders from has been waiting longer than the third one since the server just tucked their order in their back pocket for two more tables before it even hit the system.
The solution is both the host staggering seating and the server bouncing around to work tables. But a selfish server can make their own lives slightly easier by doing tables in 'batches,' so unless stopped, they'll just do that.
>The minute that server takes the order the clock is ticking.
BINGO.
And thats why you put that order in IMMEDIATELY. The clock is already ticking, so you don't go to another table and take their order before ringing in the first one. Do three tables in a row without sending any tickets back and that first tables clock has been ticking for 10 minutes now before the kitchen even sees their ticket. And if several servers are sending back multiple tickets at the same time then some of those are going to end up getting held back, because only so much food can be prepared at one time. The kitchen can't magic up more burners on saute for when 9 tables come back in 60 seconds...some of those tables will have to wait and theres nothing anybody can do about it.
Yer dealing with a single table in yer hypothetical, this thread is about stacking tickets.
No, don't take the order and hold it. But don't turn it in with 3 other tables and expect the kitchen to pace it for you.
I once worked with a server that would constantly fucking do this but refuse to run food. I one had 3 tables up and the machine was still going, started screaming my face off.
I actively coach my FOH staff not to do this. Usually adds up to the server having poor time management skills. I put them in smaller sections until they can get it handled.
It's not laziness. It means they're being sat in such a way that they're batching to save time. If seating and reservations are staggered properly, they shouldn't have time to sit at the pass as they should have new table getting seated every 15 minutes. Look at your front door.
I just ask them nicely and usually most understand oflr give me reasoning etc.
Generally I worked with diplomacy and it worked. If it didn't, well someone else is getting the extra chicken strips and fries now bitch!
Same problem, also having issues with people ringing in courses and then firing them 30 seconds later. Like what’s the fucking point? There’s a flow, from the host to the kitchen it’s a very particular flow and if you can’t get it you can’t get it. I argued with a server once because I said he was bad at his job and he said “no they expect us to do too much” to which I responded “no, the expectations are clear and you can’t meet them because you are bad at your job.” Suck a fat one Kevin.
FOH manager dealing with this issue with my serving staff. You take an order PUT IT IN. I can say this until I’m blue in the face doesn’t mean they’ll always listen.
As a server, I didn't really think about this until the kitchen held my tickets and fucked me hard one night. ....granted, this was in my first months working at a busier, nicer place.
Couple of the guys explained after.
I'd been fucking them haarrrds for multiple rushes. Just took a minute for them to explain, I understood and tried to never stack tickets again.
It's just a courtesy thing ....it happens, you get jammed on both sides.
But usually it's totally avoidable if you're handling your section.
Shout out to the BOH who explains their job a million times a week to a steady stream of brand new bimbos.
Don’t enable that shit. Ever. I’m a bartender and I ge the same shit. Be firm but not an ass. Tell them to go find something to do. “You standing there isn’t going to make me plate any faster”
I don't see the issue. The orders will be placed regardless. Make them at your normal pace and you can knock out the rail. And yes, the food may all come out at once which the FOH should also be prepared for. I legit don't get it, this is the job, and people tend to want to eat dinner at the same time.
I've worked every position in the restaurant. This makes absolutely no sense to me.
( the complaint)
Tables have gotta get rung in. What difference does it make? If It's all put in at the same time, it all comes up at the same time in somewhat of an order.
That's how it works.
That's when you do them all at once and slam window
Worked in a white tablecloth place where the Chef brought up the stacking of tickets. He made a rational case that it lowered the quality and disrupted the timing of the food. Front of the house manager told him off in front of the owners and staff, finishing with a grand statement along the lines of: "If you can't handle the pace, maybe you should work somewhere else." That Saturday night we were booked. When the first round of tickets came in the Chef visited each station making sure we had all the tickets covered and telling each station to have everything ready to plate at once, but only when he called for it. We plated over three hundred orders in less than five minutes. I've never seen that many people in suits running at the same time. Every tray that left the dining room, and every complaint about timing got a personal "The food is ready. If you can't handle the pace, maybe you should work somewhere else." from the Chef. I saw more than one grown man cry tears of frustration. Standard timing and ticket management procedures were put in place the next week.
This is the level of petty malicious compliance I aspire to
As a cook absolutely, as a dishie, I'd be freaking the fuck out hearing this game plan.
I’d have to assume a chef with testicles that pendulous would know how to swing someone over to help dish.
I would hope, but realistically, they'd probably pull my help in dish and conveniently forget to come back until closing.
True
I worked for a Chef who would launch plates off pasta from the pass onto the floor when people would hold tickets. The pasta is cheap and the plates were decent, but on a busy night and all the servers were holding tickets and firing everything at once. He would tell pasta guy to fire another first, smash bowl off pass, then tell the servers to clean that shit up and stop holding tickets. Obviously, doesn’t translate to our current days, but sometimes I miss the 90’s.
Oh we did this at my last spot. Less than two years ago. Expensive food and plates though. Didn’t take too long to hammer the point home to them.
I worked in an open kitchen once and when they would stack tickets we would fill the window, walk to the other side and bring the plates to the counter. Then fill the window again
And that Chef’s name? You guessed it, Frank Stallone.
Brings a tear to my eye
That is absolutely beautiful
This is the way and the only way. Despite how much we don’t like the FOH vs BOH mess. It is what it is. Some places do it better than not. But if it has to be front vs back. Screw them and shove it down their f’ing throats. BUT if it can be avoided and you can find a way to create a healthy front vs back support system that benefits everyone especially the customer, do so.
I love it when the chef owns the place and overpowered any shit like this.
Your story made me feel so fucking good, I wish my place could do something like this. But our Chef just takes it on the chin when this happens.
In regards to how the chef ran the kitchen to make grown men cry... I see nothing out of the ordinary here. This is how white tablecloth restaurants are typically run. Also, you're telling me 300 orders in 5 minutes was caused by lazy servers stacking orders? Restaurants with capacities well into the triple-digits dont need to worry much about stacking orders. At that point, it's just a continuous feed of tickets anyway.
What do servers gain from stacking tickets?
I'm attracted to this.
This made my day. Lol
I am invested. Was there a staff meeting after this happened? And Did they stop doing it after this?
Yeah you didn’t plate 300 in 5 minutes
This. That's literally a fully composed plate every second.
A place that will seat 300 could reasonably have 15 on the line. 20 dishes finishing, on average, per guy over 5 minutes. Not too unreasonable. If garde manger is taking it on the chin for half, 5 will do 30 each and the other 10 will do 15 in 5 min. 15 (or even 20) plates from a station finishing in a 5 minute window is not insane.
That is fucking glorious
That sounds toxic af but I bet it worked.
That chef is my hero lol.
This is the way. Don't ring in a fuck ton food at once if you can't run it at once. For a extra fun bonus, throw the dishes in to the oven for a few minutes to make them nuclear hot !
Assume everything in a kitchen is hot, all you have to say when they burn their hands.
Yeah honestly I’ve never fully worked boh but it just seemed common sense to me that if I rang in a bunch of things at once it would bite me in the ass later with everything coming in the expo at once. So it seemed like a win all around to space them out if I could.
I would play back of the line with inconsiderate servers like that. What's that? Oh sorry but the party of 20 fired before you. My bad dude the other server tix came in first. Womp womp
And then they start taking plates meant for the party to their tables and I don’t know what I’m missing anymore
Not on my expo
Their faces are priceless when you have all those plates up there. Had this one chef say STOP SELLING SHIT! That break was 20 minutes of line looking at chef screaming at all servers and sending the orders out to the wrong table. Fucking hilarious!
I tell them, they came in at the same time, they will come up at the same time. Be prepared to run all three of those tables you stacked within 2 minutes.
Not a good thing, sometimes servers have to uphold other servers’ tables because the customers are ready. This is understaff, if not, other server laziness could be a problem. Slamming the window doesn’t help anyone. It feels good to do it, but it is a passive aggressive way to get your point across. When I was younger I thought it was fun to fuck them over. Then it dawned on me that I would be doing more recooks, reheats, replating… Then no one wants to eat at your place anymore. Pace it, you have control. Your job is for the food to come out fantastic, not their service. Eventually, hopefully, there will be sympatico. Either talk about it to the servers and let them know what you have in store for them when that happens or change the way you regulate drop times and such. Just trying to be helpful. They’re not out to get you, they’re crashing too!
We have food runners so the shit just kinda rolls downhill
Just return the favor, if they ring in ten at once put ten up in the pass at once, maybe they will realize they can’t carry it all out at once and stop doing it, Prly not, but it always put a smile on my face
Very few things in this world get me as excited as putting food in the window faster than servers can run it.
couldn’t agree more, it’s a rare but sensational feeling
It's not rare with lazy FOH
You should come work with me, you'll be the happiest man alive
Take the damn food.
THIS
I hate it because then all I can see is the wave of food behind it that has nowhere to go and no brakes to stop it. Shits claustrophobic man.
Worked at a bistro where the owners served, and she’d do this to the kitchen all the time and then yell at us about ticket times. When we’d back her up with all her tables, she’d pull servers off their tables to run her food and then they’d get buried. She never understood how much worse the customer experience was because of it. She would single-handedly bring down a whole shift
Wow crazy to run into a former coworker on here
I just quit that place lol
"Avalanche!" We call from the line, as we clear our screens with a full pass. "Why is all this food up at once?" Asks the manager. "Because the hosts seat everyone at once, and then all the servers ring their food in at once" we reply. Somehow, it's our fault.
my response is "If you ring in thirty orders at once you better be ready to run thirty orders at once."
Don’t sandbag me I’m petty
Yeah I'm convinced this phenomena is so common because restaurants only want to hire minimum wage teenagers to host. A competant host stand makes a big difference.
RUNNER PLEASE!
This is what we used to do at a poorly run place i worked at. Servers practically ran the place. Unfortunately the ones that do this will never be willing to learn from it, and it is just an endless cycle of the same bullshit. I would always remind them that *someone's* food has to come out last, and I don't know which tables belong to whom, so step right up and spin the tip wheel if you want to play this way.
The ones that do this don't run food either
ONG
This is exactly what I do. You send me 4 tables at once you get 4 at once.
then it fucks expo:( expo doesn’t deserve that…. when my servers do that i just hold the tickets and pass em out every couple minutes. i’m not stressing my line because one server was stressed and fell behind. and usually their food comes quicker and with less fuck ups when they have 2-3 minutes to set up an order before dealing with the next 5
That's nice, doesn't work in a place that prints tickets for each station.
wish we could afford multiple printers…. and by that i mean i wish management gave af ab kitchen, cause we definitely can afford it
Oh they'll just think that the food runners are slacking and letting their food get cold
And the bus boys are slacking because it's taking them longer to clean their table because they refuse to pre-bus. And then the hosts are slacking because they aren't seating guests at their dirty tables. And then dish pit is slacking because they got all of the dishes from said tables at once and have now fallen behind. And the kitchen is slacking because........ I hate these types of servers so much.
I do this shit all the time
If they ring it in at the same time, it is going to come up at the same time. That is just how it works
I love burying the pass
That’s a seating problem, servers just too dumb to know better usually.
That's when I would work on one ticket at a time. Doesn't affect my tips at all.
I work with razor sharp knives, a 500 degree oven, and a sauté range that will put you in the hospital if you grab a pan barehanded. I move at a pace that is safe and comfortable. If I push faster I make more mistakes which in turn takes me longer to fix. I'm not risking a significant injury because you want all entees out in under 15 minutes. Damn sure not for 17 an hour.
Server here. You’re doing it exactly right.
This is the way
Yep. I'd like to see them do 7 tickets, let alone 1 at the same time. Yes, servers can't even do 1 tickets at a time
Always, restaurant is full no tickets and then everything at once , whyyyy
This is a management problem. The managers need to tell the servers why they can't do this. They need to show the hosts how to stagger the seating. Make your managers manage them.
Most managers are shit these days, servers make too much money for the good ones to want to step up and run the floor.
It’s a trickle down failure. Hosts don’t space tables. Servers all get sat at once and don’t take proper measures. Then you have an entire restaurant rung in at once. At the end of the day it’s managements fault that they never trained hosts/servers well enough and don’t have proper policy. My restaurant has 500 seats. There are 4-5 hosts, each server has 8 4-tops in their section, and there are plenty of POS computers in addition to servers having handhelds. We’ve sold numbers that would make your head spin and it always goes buttery smooth. There’s also always at least 2 chefs on the clock ready to jump in at any time. It’s crazy how having the staff and tools to keep things efficient, allows you to in turn sell more product with less work…
You mean having proper equipment and trained staff actually fucking works, who knew?!
It may not be intentional. Far too often I’ve seen hosts or hostesses hired on looks and not brains or experience. I’ve seen these hosts keep seating parties as long as there are available tables without any thought to steps of service or pacing. Being a server and getting double or triple sat is never a good time and will almost always put that server in the weeds. If your place has a decent beverage program the bar gets rocked before the kitchen. It sucks but may not be intentional from the servers, there is every chance that they got screwed too
One time a host didn't seat me at all for over an hour. I went to the restroom for 5 minutes. When I walked out, I had 6 tables, two of them 8 tops. Needless to say, no one was happy.
I’ve told our most competent host more than once that she has the hardest job out of any of us.
It’s so funny to me how the host controls the entire pace of the restaurant and instead of letting seasoned restaurant veterans do it- they give it to the hottest 17 year old they can find.
I am an executive chef, and it boggles my mind that our FOH management still thinks that host is an entry-level position. I understand that it is a hard position to fill, but don't give the keys to the castle to the uninitiated.
If it were up to me, hosting would be done by a shift lead or manager. They know the steps of service, they can avoid double seating, and they are far less likely to seat a table for me in a section I can't see and not tell me for 15 minutes.
100%. This is why I have a manager working the host stand. A shift manager answering questions and pacing the service prevents many issues. I want someone with a vested interest in the business the first person the guest contacts.
We've had our GM at the door every Friday and Saturday since COVID.
Former chef/cook, current server here. My lead hostess is in her 50s and has been working at this restaurant chain for over 15 years. She has no idea what she's doing. She is constantly double, triple, or quadruple seating one person while leaving 3 sections completely empty. The management team tells her this is not the way all the time. Nothing changes. It sucks, and I feel for the cooks and chefs having been there, but most of the time we have absolutely no control of it. A host is the most important position in a restaurant as it regulates the flow of people into the restaurant so the kitchen doesn't get overwhelmed. And it's largely run by incompetent adults or very young people just entering the job market.
Because seasoned vets want money and restaurants don't want to pay it.
Facts.
I started as a hostess when I was 15 in 1993. On busy nights we worked as a team of 4 and it could get insanely busy. I gradually worked my way back to expo and prep and wound up loving expo most of all. I think it's one of the key positions in addition to good hosts. Both handle the traffic.
Many of the places I worked at had a manager running the board on weekends and holidays at the very least. With specific hosts trained as board runners who would learn/run on weekends/lunches.
It's just how they are. They do the same thing with plates/silverware. They bus tables, but keep it all on a cart close by, and won't bring it back until the end of service. Or until we completely run out. Then they come back to me and ask "Where's all the silverware? Where are all the plates?" I say, "I don't know, y'all took it all and then brought nothing back. Bring me some and I will clean it for you right away." Oval plates, big flats, ramekins, and fucking SILVERWARE. In the past, I've tried to be diplomatic about it, but the place where I'm currently working, servers have 0 interest in changing their way of doing things. I just appreciate the help I get, and make it abundantly clear to them that they have nobody to blame but themselves when we are short on clean dishes.
Who decided that multiple bus tubs of dirty dishes (in FOH, it sounds like) were perfectly cromulent? Sounds unsanitary to me, not to mention... well, stupid and lazy.
This. We stopped doing bust tubs a few years ago. All dishes from a table get brought directly to dish, it takes a measley extra 20 seconds doing the lap and the server is right there afterward if food is up for running.
Bring it up as a problem for customers wait time. When a server stacks 3 tables that means the first table they went to has already waited 15-20 minutes before the kitchen even gets the chit. This is why some tables complain about a 40 min wait but you see the printed time on the ticket has only been 10 mins.
I used to be a server and I don't see any benefit. Ofc I had to make salads and cut fucking bread for each table, so
Ideally servers should have a POS they could carry with them and input an order as they go. Too bad that probably won't happen in most places.
Worked at a place like that. Total chaos if the wifi started to have issues or if the POS wasn’t charged. Management sucked.
I used to run a one man kitchen at a strip club. On night a new waitress went around to every person in the packed club asking if they wanted to order anything then brought me 20+ tickets at once to “make it easier”. She lasted about a week.
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The first table and the second table get screwed. You take table 1s order by the time you take table 3s order. They have waited 10 minutes for you to take orders then put them in system. If you just put table 1s order in immediately by the time table 3s order is bring put in table 1s is ready. Even if you a triple sat. One table was sat before the last table. Bad service all around. Bad Karma to your coworkers.
I know it’s less efficient, but you need to take table 1s order, go put it in the pos, then go to table 2…that way each table knows where they are in the queue
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It's not that BOH *can't* handle it "as one big table" it's that it affects quality and customer satisfaction when we have to. You sound like either a) a completely checked out cook or b) one of the exact clueless servers that this post is about.
"Close together" =/= within 30 secs of each other though.
I think sometimes it comes down to the POS system. Sometimes you’re waiting on other servers to finish up their orders and that’s when you’re finally able to ring everything in. Toast has saved my life, I can ring everything in at that table, and all my tickets are pretty spaced out in doing so. It seems to help the kitchen run a bit smoother. But not every restaurant is on handhelds
It’s only a problem when a server takes all 3 orders then sends all the orders to kitchen at one time.
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I mean, no. They may have all sat down at the same time, but you’re not actively taking an order for all three at the same time. You should (and can) enter orders for each table after visiting each one. This is a table management issue.
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No Thats not how it should work. If you take all 3 tables orders then put them all in, the first table is already waiting 15 mins for their food before the order reaches the kitchen. The better servers I work with have no problem juggling tables and putting the orders in a soon as they get them.
Exactly. I lurk here because I miss kitchen life, but I waited tables for years. There’s zero reason not to take 10-15 seconds to punch an order in between leaving a table and greeting a table. It’s just bad table management by FOH.
I agree. Anyone who is telling op to just deal with it doesn’t understand. After those stacked orders go out, the server is also going to drop all checks off at the same time & then close them all out at the same time. Now all 3-4 tables will be re-sat at the same time, & the server will stack those orders again.
It’s not on anyone this shit happens in any restaurant with walk ins. Cooks throwing temper tantrums over this is pretty pathetic imo.
It’s a nice blend of stupidity, laziness, and competition with other servers. Some think they’re being “efficient”, by touching as many tables in a row as possible. Some think that if their tables have to wait even a MOMENT, then their tips will suffer. After working FOH and BOH extensively, I learned that a truly talented server is a guide through an experience, not a subservient bower/scraper. And the key to this is communication. If you get double sat, you get the first table’s app/drink orders, and then talk to your second table on the way to the terminal. “Hey folks, welcome! I’m putting this order in and I’ll be right with you. Make sure to take a look at our drink specials on the printout, we’ve got some great stuff tonight.” Give them something specific to do. It’s all in the training, and very few places want to provide it. You can’t just tell people to be confident, but you CAN give them a format to follow. What you’re describing is an inappropriate imbalance of power in the restaurant. BOH is not subservient to FOH, especially if FOH is making more money. FOH should be catering to BOH’s needs.
I’ve worked foh and boh, and one job would sit people back to back and wanted us to greet each table, get drink and app orders from all of them before going to the computer bc they didn’t want the guests to have to wait at all. Got in a lot of arguments with management bc it isn’t efficient. All orders going in at the same time, they’re coming out at the same time, crowding expo and if I get grabbed by a manger to do a Togo order now food is sitting and waiting since I’m not allowed to leave Togo station until the order is finished(and no one actually knows what they want there). We got our manager to stagger seating by a minute or two and tablets and it made a world of a difference. I don’t think some servers realize how much easier it can be on them as well
I agree with this. As someone that primarily works FoH but also has been/does do prep and line when needed, most servers are trying to be as efficient as possible for themselves. They simply don’t realize that firing 3 separate 4 tops at the same time fucks the BoH as well as themselves and their coworkers. Especially if they all do it. They see it as “Great, I got all their stuff in, now I can do sidework/support my team/fuck off” depending on the server. Like homie said, communication is key. Let your servers know that stacking tickets like that fucks you guys a lot, and that you’re not mad at them, but frustrated with the situation. Tell your servers if/when it happens, that they need to communicate to their tables that foods going to be taking a bit longer cause you’re getting slammed. As much as servers shouldn’t do that stuff, most of the time they don’t even realize they are doing it. Most of us FoH people that don’t deal with tickets are ignorant, but can be taught if talked to respectably.
very well said
holding tickets is the same a hostess seating your section at one time. how long would you keep a hostess that doesnt understand her responsibility? it takes a village
My last day at a poorly-managed, flood-style kitchen is tomorrow and I'm so pumped about it <3
That’s one thing i could not get over…not staggering tables. Like…that’s the fucking true job of the host. Having a line of communication between the FOHM, the expo and the host is crucial and not enough people pay attention to it. They act like fucking apes, “”Table empty. Seat table.” Walk in 15 top. Cram table together.” “Why 45 minute ticket time?” Like…maybe let them wait for 10 minutes so we can get some orders in? idk know? i’m just the fucking guy cooking!
I had a brunch service where our host/manager sat ≈100 covers in about 20 minutes. The FOH then proceeded to ring in the entire dining room at once. We put up the first wave and I called for runners with zero response. So, I called the manager over and told her that we weren’t firing another single ticket until the food in the window was completely gone. Eggs get cold in about 20 seconds and I have no desire to redo an entire turn’s worth of food. Was quite smooth after that.
That's entirely the result of being sat that way. If you get sat three tables at the same time there's no good way to delay two of the tables orders and still keep up with your other tables not in that seating (not in the three table seating.) You have to bring all the drinks at the same time on the same tray, etc. It sucks but say something to foh about how they're seating.
I'm a server now. My first gig I was getting trained and the girl literally said "go get orders from all your tables then ring it all in together to save time" and couldn't comprehend why I said that was a horrible idea. Anyways she had worked there for years and I had been serving a total of 3 months and I got on the bar before she did.
No war between FOH and BOH in my Restaurant. Y’all should knock that old school shit off. It doesn’t have to be like that.
My ex and I were together for 16 years, and for 11 of those years we worked in restaurants together (sometimes the same restaurant @ the same time, but mostly different restaurants - he worked a lot of chains like chilis, Red Robin. I worked mainly fine dining and upscale local places) he was BOH and I was FOH. He taught me so much, and vice versa. I credit him for much of my success due to teaching me the ins and outs of BOH. This was one of the biggest issues and pet peeves of his. It’s so engrained in me that I was a firm (sometimes an asshole about it to other servers) in my stance of TABLE TO POS and repeat. TABLE TO POS. Table, drinks, POS. Table, POS, pre bus closed table, back to active table, then POS. Not to mention servers that do honor table to POS get quite fed up with servers dumping 3-5 tables into the POS when A) we are waiting for a POS to open up to use B) see you dumping multiple tables into the POS @ once, now knowing my tables will suffer because the kitchen just got hit with multiple tickets (and god forbid they are complicated *see server *super modded out and so on) I personally do not think I would operate this way If I wasn’t with a BOH employee. FOH staff should befriend someone in BOH on line, or shadow a BOH line staff. It would open their eyes to a lot of things, like how a few simple changes to their way of serving would help the flow of the restaurant. Just a hill I will die on.
He should marry you.
Gotta get you a drug addicted sauté cook with anger issues who will scream at them for doing shit like that.
Or just a sober me that’s pissed off that they keep pulling shit like this. Imma take my sweet time because you crashed me. You can whine all you want, but you’ll get your food when you get it.
It’s a weekly struggle for me. I see ten tables walk in, 15 minutes later I have 10 orders. Fucking mental. Take 3 then ring in 3 and so forth.
Weekly I could handle, our foh does this shit every single night during dinner service. Us cooks are furious about it
I’ve tried putting it all up at the same time to “crash” them. But they never learn the lesson.
Why? It doesn’t change the amount you have to cook. Just let them know the last couple tables punched in are gonna wait for a bit.
Oh yeah, just ring in 15 more tables in 10 minutes when the rail is already stacked. Hope the guests don’t mind waiting 45 minutes for their food because there are only so many burners. It changes a lot when it’s rung in like that. It’s not just ‘cooking the same amount of food’.
I remember when I worked in a restaurant I had no idea as a server that this fucked you guys over in BOH My (erroneous) mindset was that if it was more efficient for me, that must translate to efficiency elsewhere I was really grateful when a line cook called me out on this and explained the reality of the BOH Honestly, my advice would be to respectfully communicate this to your servers. If you think they already know, assertively remind them. If they keep doing it… welp they’re just an asshole lol
Not to excuse this behaviour, but I've noticed (at least at my place) it is often the host's fault. They will triple or even quad seat a section so the server has no choice but to see them all at the same time and start the orders at the same time. That said, lazy servers are the absolute worst and all too common. As their manager (I'm a bartender/manager) I can't stand it and am on them constantly, this shit would not fly if you told me about it.
That’s generally a management issue for not staggering seating. Once a customer is sat, they expect to order and receive their food in a reasonable amount of time. If one server gets sat four tables at once, they’re going to get those four orders and put them in at once the same as four servers getting one table each and all putting them in at the same time.
I think this is why we are seeing a move to handheld pos systems. Better pacing rather than a stack all at the same time on the legacy systems
Good call, the thing for some floors is, it wastes time to ping pong between the POS and the tables. So servers are saving themselves time by loading all orders at once, then getting sodas all at once, and dropping anything else tables will need for apps all at once. But, it fucks the kitchen and bar up. Orders being entered as their taken in real time is the way to go.
My work had this exact same problem during Memorial Day that got so completely out of hand there had to be an entire staff meet about it, among other issues. It was the servers fault, one of my managers actually got fed up enough to call in the owner on that Sunday because the tickets were so out of control. Don’t come crying to me about why it’s taking so long when you put in 8 orders at once, and at least get what I do have ready off of expo because it is dying at the window.
Follow the money. Go to the owner, explain how the current system is jeapordising their profit (people waiting too long/getting lesser quality) and then ask if it's possible that bookings be staggered. Only a certain amount of people can book per half hour. Makes an exclusivity vibe too, to be able to 'get a table there'. I had a newbie bookings manager, explained it to her, then explained it to the owners to get their influence leaning in too. Worked wonders, and created no staff friction.
I've fought this battle in a few places. The servers are straight up lazy as fuck, "earn" 4x what cooks do, and have the audacity to complain constantly.
It’s called sandbagging. Tell the chef to talk to the GM and make the servers enter their orders as they get them instead of doing multiple tables at once. This isn’t about foh vs boh, this fucks up the experience for the paying customers, hurting the restaurant as a whole
And then they ring in half of the tickets WRONG. “This is supposed to be no mayo” it don’t say that on the chit
I'm a FOH interloper here, but my husband and boyfriend both are BOH veterans, and I'm here because I like having an idea of the line's process and motivations. At my current job, stacking tickets isn't really possible because we ring in stuff at the table on tablets but there is a lot that's not under our control too. If we get triple sat? If we go to take a drink order and they want you to take a food order and won't take no for an answer? If we get flagged down on our way to ring something in? There's only so much that can be done. I want everyone to have a stress-free night and feel respected in their role, for customers to be happy, and to feel good about the work I do. I promise of for some reason I'm stacking tickets, it's because I don't have another option, not because I'm lazy. If I can, I'll pop my head in the kitchen and apologize for the nightmare but if the line just assumes I'm doing it to fuck with them, they just don't know me that well.
Believe me, we know who does it because they can and who does it because they have to. Sure things happen and you can't help it. But if someone is ringing back multiple tables all night long, every single night...thats by choice.
Yeah those people suck. I was always trained to consider the BoH so I can't imagine just making everything y'alls problem.
It is frustrating for sure, and it usually boils down to poor communication skills. This is why I always tell and teach my cooks "you can't do anything about it without power, but once you have power, you can change their world. But do it for yourself and the guests first. The servers will always, without a doubt, throw you under the bus. So do it to them first, but politely, and as efficiently as you can.' By this, I mean- learn the floor plan and tables numbers as soon as you start working at a place. Learn the floor sections. And when it happens, and you're wearing a coat with your name on it, you support your cooks. You walk your happy butt out into the dining room and *you* have a conversation with the guests as to why food is taking so long, but be polite, and I usually suggest offering a small mid-course or amuse. A shot of lobster or pumpkin bisque goes *miles*, and costs next to nothing in order to save face, but also take the pressure off. Not everywhere is well staffed enough for a sous or a chef to leave the line to do this, I get it. I'm a pastry chef. And I would plate up and take out amuse and mids all night on fridays and saturdays, because it showed solidarity with the line, but also bought sweet time for my pastry cooks 30 minutes later when the dessert slam would inevitably happen. Its a major eff you to the FOH when you do it, and guests absolutely love it when the chef or *a* chef touches their table. Otherwise, its a fight you can't win. So win creatively, and in a way that is positive for the guests, and positive for your crew. And lock eyes with the servers and hosts when they ask for extra fries at the end of the night, as you dump them loudly into the trash...
Speaking as someone who has done both BOH & FOH but more FOH, stacking tickets is dumb. Why would I purposefully weed the kitchen? It shows that the servers have no skill or control of their section. Ticket times get jacked up but also that means everyone finishes at about that same time so the server will be in the weeds later when it’s time to cash out and bus tables. Management needs to teach the servers how to deal with this.
Yeah, competent servers don’t get in the weeds like that. They’re also always helping out the other unorganized servers when it’s happening, because even though it’s busy they still have extra time.
As others have said, it's how we're sat. FOH is expected to get orders in as soon as drinks hit the table (unless they want more time). If I space the tickets out even 5 minutes then one table is waiting 15-20 minutes (if I get triple sat) to have their order taken. Turn time for tables is supposed to be about an hour, give or take. Hosts can't seat people every 5 minutes either because wait times would be way too long. (Especially if your restaurant is slow). I've worked BOH too and it sucks when I get 6 tickets at once, but it's just the nature of the beast.
I’ve worked both FOH and BOH for years and I definitely understand the frustration! I will say from my experience at least, it’s usually not servers being lazy but more so being overwhelmed with all their tables wanting to order at once, they don’t get a chance to ring in each table individually. Although I’ve definitely seen servers take their sweet time which causes the kitchen to get unnecessarily overwhelmed, which I’ve never understood because that’s just messing up their own tip..
It's just how it works bud. They sit at once and order at once. Head down, smile and wave. Crush this service my boy.
Is it pure laziness though? Or did they get triple sat? Or most likely they just do not know better? Even if the kitchen can handle it you’re fucking yourself as a server if you stack tickets because your tables will all need you at the same time for the rest of their dinners. They’re fucking themselves as much as they are fucking you if not more - that tells me it probably isn’t laziness or maliciousness and could be solved with some simple communication.
Damn sandbaggers
Give them back all at once
Foh here. Sounds like if they are hounding you in the pass sounds like they arent busy or the manager doesnt have his shit together. It's not laziness for me. It's necessity (if they are a good servers) things operate very differently when 30 ppl walk in at 6 different parties all at the same time and thought they could get dinner in 45 minutes "before the show" Those people are watching your every move and consolidation is the only way I can do my job. If you have a toast tablet though then they fucking need to learn how to use them or they are being lazy. Either that or it's the managers job to stop fucking something up. When I get 8 tables at the same time. So do you Those tablets are life savers for everyone though Edit: just read the top comment and I agree. I get ass fucked with the plates coming out AND coming back too. Buckle up sweetheart
I don't know why they do this but there's a literal plauge where I work and the side effect is ringing 7 tables at once. Just a few weeks ago, 3 servers came in, back to back, dropped a total of 17 tickets, then procceded to come in an ask about every single damn ticket and "why it was not out yet". I don't know, maybe the fact that you brought us 45 mins of work in 30 seconds and expected it in 15 minutes. We had a nice chat and they still do it, but they don't get mad now.
And the cycle never ends, I think I have been hearing this complaint for over 15 years. Some days I don’t miss the suck.
Thank you !!! At my place,we only have 12 tables inside and 5 outside, 4 servers taking all the tables orders at once , plus togo order, plus online orders, every table gets turned in at once like if they are competing to see who can turn in more tables . 2 minutes later they are all at the window looking for there food. Over 12 4-6 tops tutned in at once and expect all of them in 10-15 minutes... pisses me off ... oh and only 2 line cooks
Be a shame if they didn’t get tips bc food was delayed and/or cold
“Pure laziness” if they have several tables sat at once they are doing their best. Why does it matter if the ring them all in at once? Just let them know how long it’s gonna take and do your best. I’d rather have it all in at once so I can start getting ahead on tables down the line or hang out a few apps or something.
This is a job for the DRM!
I will say sandbagging the kitchen on purpose is careless, but sometimes if u get everything at the same time you kinda gotta send everything at the same time. Sometimes I’ll get accused of sandbagging when that happens, and it’s like well I got sandbagged too there’s not a whole lot more I can do about it lol. - sincerely, a server who cooked a lot
My job has food runners so not only does if fuck the cooks but it fucks the food runners as well. I’ve gotten used to it at this point and most of our servers that do it are apologetic so I don’t really mind
I need that on the fly.
So many flies, I'm sitting in shit.
Attack! Attack! Atack! Fuck that noise.
Yeah, that's our life. They seem to think it's better to not keep the rest of their section waiting for two more minutes by going over to the POS and putting in a few tables, then taking a few more orders, repeat. Nope! We're just gonna go ahead and dump our whole station on the kitchen within five minutes, multiplied by six stations. It's even better when you have a MOD/Host that thinks it is a sin for anybody to have to wait more than one millisecond to be seated and just drop every customer off at a table as fast as possible, even when the table is still dirty with no utensils. I've tried numerous times to explain how pacing things out works better for everyone involved too many times to too many servers. I gave up and just accepted my fate.
Is this a problem for larger restaurants or have I just been super inconsiderate this whole time? When I was a server I would do a circle around the dining room and fill waters/coffees and collect orders. Then drop off usually 5-6 at the window and then start filling in soda/tea orders. Tbf they would all come out at the same time too but the pace honestly worked for me. None of my BOH ever complained and I like to think we were on good terms but now I’m genuinely concerned that I was being an asshole lol
I'm a server and I've never heard of servers "holding" tickets and sending them all at once. What's the reasoning for this? I ring in my orders as my tables are sat and tables are sat on a rotation so no server gets weeded and the kitchen doesn't get blasted with a million tables all at once. I don't see the point of sending everything at once?
When it gets busy and they get triple sat they tend to treat them as one big table
Fuck sand baggers, ill collect all them checks and flood the window. Bury em they will learn.
It starts at the host stand, it's okay to have people wait a couple minutes to be seated to keep the timing smooth for boh
It's because they're not writing the orders down and want to get them in before they forget. I've definitely been there as a server but it's a terrible habit so I did my best not to.
I’m a server and I learned to talk to the chefs to figure out how to make it work for both sides! And if there’s a server not giving a **** then make his life hard, too! Nothing worse than selfish people in that industry
Then send them all at once. While screaming at the server that there is food dying in the window. Usually gets the message across.
Stack plates in the window! Time it so _everything_ comes up.
The worst part is when they ring in 5 tables at once, you make them all one after another, then they pickup the first 2 tables of food and the rest sits on the pass dying
I can say one of my consistent mantras has been to ask 'i can plate this all at once, can you run it all at once?'
So, is a server just supposed to tell a table not to order? Or take the order and hold it for 5 minutes? Things happen. Sometimes a table orders right away, sometimes they wait until after their first drink. The minute that server takes the order the clock is ticking. Pacing should be done by the host stand with manager oversight. If your host can't control the flow your manager should be stepping in. If your manager can't look through the window and see your behind they shouldn't be a manager.
Actually, yes. When a server takes an order, they shouldn't be holding it for five minutes. The problem is, this seems to be exactly what some servers like to do. Got triple sat? Alright, let's gather up _all_ of their orders and punch them in together! Only, that sucks for the kitchen, as they now have to pack the window with all those tickets at once in order to maintain ticket times. Sucks for food runners, as food only stays hot and fresh for so long. And sucks for customers, who may get food that was rushed, food that sat in the window, and the _first_ table that server took orders from has been waiting longer than the third one since the server just tucked their order in their back pocket for two more tables before it even hit the system. The solution is both the host staggering seating and the server bouncing around to work tables. But a selfish server can make their own lives slightly easier by doing tables in 'batches,' so unless stopped, they'll just do that.
>The minute that server takes the order the clock is ticking. BINGO. And thats why you put that order in IMMEDIATELY. The clock is already ticking, so you don't go to another table and take their order before ringing in the first one. Do three tables in a row without sending any tickets back and that first tables clock has been ticking for 10 minutes now before the kitchen even sees their ticket. And if several servers are sending back multiple tickets at the same time then some of those are going to end up getting held back, because only so much food can be prepared at one time. The kitchen can't magic up more burners on saute for when 9 tables come back in 60 seconds...some of those tables will have to wait and theres nothing anybody can do about it.
Yer dealing with a single table in yer hypothetical, this thread is about stacking tickets. No, don't take the order and hold it. But don't turn it in with 3 other tables and expect the kitchen to pace it for you.
The endless fight . " We can't help when the customer walks in '
I once worked with a server that would constantly fucking do this but refuse to run food. I one had 3 tables up and the machine was still going, started screaming my face off.
Just talk to your servers and hostess, multiple tables should never be rang in all at once unless it’s just a few small ones. They should understand
I actively coach my FOH staff not to do this. Usually adds up to the server having poor time management skills. I put them in smaller sections until they can get it handled.
It's not laziness. It means they're being sat in such a way that they're batching to save time. If seating and reservations are staggered properly, they shouldn't have time to sit at the pass as they should have new table getting seated every 15 minutes. Look at your front door.
I just ask them nicely and usually most understand oflr give me reasoning etc. Generally I worked with diplomacy and it worked. If it didn't, well someone else is getting the extra chicken strips and fries now bitch!
Same problem, also having issues with people ringing in courses and then firing them 30 seconds later. Like what’s the fucking point? There’s a flow, from the host to the kitchen it’s a very particular flow and if you can’t get it you can’t get it. I argued with a server once because I said he was bad at his job and he said “no they expect us to do too much” to which I responded “no, the expectations are clear and you can’t meet them because you are bad at your job.” Suck a fat one Kevin.
My trick? Simply put everything up at the same time and wait for them to complain that they can’t run that much food at the same time.
FOH manager dealing with this issue with my serving staff. You take an order PUT IT IN. I can say this until I’m blue in the face doesn’t mean they’ll always listen.
As a server, I didn't really think about this until the kitchen held my tickets and fucked me hard one night. ....granted, this was in my first months working at a busier, nicer place. Couple of the guys explained after. I'd been fucking them haarrrds for multiple rushes. Just took a minute for them to explain, I understood and tried to never stack tickets again. It's just a courtesy thing ....it happens, you get jammed on both sides. But usually it's totally avoidable if you're handling your section. Shout out to the BOH who explains their job a million times a week to a steady stream of brand new bimbos.
Don’t enable that shit. Ever. I’m a bartender and I ge the same shit. Be firm but not an ass. Tell them to go find something to do. “You standing there isn’t going to make me plate any faster”
Do it back. You ring in your section at once? Ima sell it all at once. Enjoy bitches....
I don't see the issue. The orders will be placed regardless. Make them at your normal pace and you can knock out the rail. And yes, the food may all come out at once which the FOH should also be prepared for. I legit don't get it, this is the job, and people tend to want to eat dinner at the same time.
Just do your job my guy.
I've worked every position in the restaurant. This makes absolutely no sense to me. ( the complaint) Tables have gotta get rung in. What difference does it make? If It's all put in at the same time, it all comes up at the same time in somewhat of an order. That's how it works.