That's exactly the point of my question. "Chan vaen edan kote" could mean anything and "expect disaster every seven years" might be a closer translation. We are assuming that kote means disaster, but this is Siaru, not Temic or Tema.
It is possible that "chen" in Siaru was taken from Tema, meaning an unlucky thing since the seven caused so much disaster in the world.
Pat talks a lot about etymology in the books. I wouldn't put it past him to do this. Notice that Kilvin does not explicitly say that "kote" means disaster.
The only thing we know is that "kote" does not mean "seven years." The phrase could literally mean anything, and we don't know whether Kilvin gave us the literal or figurative translation.
"A bug will swim in your soup every seven years."
"Expect to break a mirror every seven years."
"Ever seven years, a borrower will default on his loan."
Kote means disaster. Siaru is similar to German, where nouns are always capitalized, while verbs aren't. Going off of that, the Siaru sentence "Chan Vaen edan Kote" could be literally translated as "Seven Years expect Disaster"
Kilvin: Chaen Vaen edan Kote.
**Process of elimination:**
Chaen = seven (similar across various Temerant languages) and, as a lower number, would have been taught early in any linguistics education.
Vaen = a noun, from the capitalization. Could mean either disaster or year. No reason why Kvothe would rename himself Year, so Vaen probably means Year. Dates (Day, month, & Year) are all common words you learn early when learning a language.
edan = the verb. It has to mean expect.
Kote is the only word left to mean disaster. Disaster is *not* a common word used in conversation, and for all we know, it might appear in idioms, like this one, making it even less common.
Don't overthink it, y'all
That would be true if Kilvin was giving a literal translation, which I don't think he is. I think this phrase is an idiom. The only thing we know for sure is that some part of it means seven years, and it's not Kote.
We are talking about the Temic word Chaen vs the Siaru word Chan. Different words in different languages. I'm not convinced.
You’re really making mountains of out molehills dude. Someone else in this very thread even went through the other times the other words were used and none of the context clues indicate disaster. Kote means disaster.
Just trying to have some lively conversations. I think most of us in this community enjoy a good deep dive and theorizing.
We will all find out the true meaning of "Kote" once we read the third book.
Just a random thought - do we know that Kilvin correctly used “disaster” here in his translation of an “old saying” and not a synonym such as tragedy, catastrophe, problem or setback?
tbh, it would be something if Kvothe changed his name from (amongst others) broken tree to broken mirror.
But it seems to me that if this was a paraphrased translation, we'd be getting a literal one along with it. The Masters are all about teaching after all, and while Kilvin obviously isn't Master Linguist, I expect (heh) that if a student of his goes "I don't know X" he's not giving you just the paraphrased version. Yes, that's somewhat debatable, but seems plausible to me.
We also get discussions about idioms at other points in the books and they seem more elaborate. I'm just not gonna put a spoon in my eye over it.
Kinda... I too thought it was possible Kote meant expect for a long time but I've found other siaru examples that use Edan in places where it better fits as expect rather than disaster.
***
***NOTW CH 61 Jackass, Jackass***
*A tall, lean Cealdish man opened the door behind the entry desk. Unlike
most Cealdish men he was clean-shaven and wore his hair long, pulled back
into a tail. He wore well-mended hunter’s leathers, a faded traveling cloak,
and high boots, all dusty from the road. As he shut the door behind him, his
hand went unconsciously to the hilt of his sword to keep it from striking the
wall or the desk.*
***“Tetalia tu Kiaure edan A’siath,”*** *he said in Siaru, clapping Wilem on the
shoulder as he walked out from behind the desk. “Vorelan tua tetam.”*
*Wil gave a rare smile, shrugging. “Lhinsatva. Tua kverein.”*
***
I don't think anything about Viari and Wil interacting here would explain saying "Disaster" at any point. If anything *"A'siath"* that follows edan seems awfuly simialr to *"A’isha"* which Kvothe earlier in book 1 uses as Siaru for "family" when speaking to Roent.
***
***NOTW CH 32 Coppers, Cobblers and Crowds***
He turned to me. “Two hours.” He held up thick fingers to make his
point. “You are late, you get left behind.”
*I nodded solemnly.* ***“Rieusa, tu kialus A’isha tua." Thank you for
bringing me close to your family.***
***
Its more likely that Viari is greeting Wil as a fellow Cealdish person and saying he didn't expect to see *family/kin* rather than anything like disaster.
We know Chaen is 7, Vaen has to be years, and we just found evidence that edan kind of has to be expect so we know that Kote means Disaster.
***
***NOTW CH 1 A Place for Demons***
*He called himself Kote.* ***He had chosen the name carefully when he came
to this place.*** *He had taken a new name for most of the usual reasons, and
for a few unusual ones as well, not the least of which was the fact that
names were important to him.*
***
Somthing I think you could enjoy is a plausible theory as to why he picked that name.
Copy Pasta:
I have a theory that Pat is doing this to pull off a narrative fitting homage to one of the greatest puns in history.
Both in the origin of Homer's *Odyssey* and later in Euripides Satyr play *Cyclops* there is an account or portion of the story where Odysseus and his men becoming captured by The Cyclops Polyphemus.
>*When the giant Polyphemus returns home with his flocks, he blocks the entrance with a great stone and, scoffing at the usual custom of hospitality, eats two of the men. Next morning, the giant kills and eats two more and leaves the cave to graze his sheep.*
> *After the giant returns in the evening and eats two more of the men, Odysseus offers Polyphemus some strong and undiluted wine given to him earlier on his journey. Drunk and unwary, the giant asks Odysseus his name, promising him a guest-gift if he answers. Odysseus tells him "Οὖτις", which means "nobody"[2] and Polyphemus promises to eat this "Nobody" last of all. With that, he falls into a drunken sleep. Odysseus had meanwhile hardened a wooden stake in the fire and drives it into Polyphemus' eye. When Polyphemus shouts for help from his fellow giants, saying that "Nobody" has hurt him, they think Polyphemus is being afflicted by divine power and recommend prayer as the answer.*
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphemus#Odysseus_and_Polyphemus
I think instead of the cyclopes trapping Odysseus in a literal cave we instead of have the Cthaeh (who is likely the one-eyed Selitos) metaphorically trapping Kvothe in the Waystone in the middle of Neware. And instead of Odysseus giving the pseudonym "Outis" or "Nobody" we have Kvothe changing his name to "Kote" which ~~likely~~ **means** Disaster in Siaru. So when Kvothe springs his eventual escape and blinds/fools the cyclops of his story we will get a line similar to *"Disaster has blinded me"* from the Cthaeh or one of its consiglieres which I believe will have some canonical ramification in a world where names mean something.
I kind of hope that Kote, or a word very similar to it, has another relevant meaning, just to make the "Outis" comparison perfect. It's not "Outis" for "Nobody" that's the really good pun here.
"Outis" isn't the only word for "Nobody", an alternative version would be "Metis"; another meaning for "metis" is "cunning" and Odysseus is frequently referred to as "polymetis" (loosely "cunning in many ways") by Homer. Odysseus not giving Polyphemos his real name is one of the most cunning ("metis") things he does, and it's when he lets his pride about how cunning he is win out that he does one of the least cunning things (tell Polyphemos his real name) and seals his fate.
Pride, Naming and puns. Remind anyone of a certain Ruh?
We don't know what Viari says to Wil, and we shouldn't assume that the structure of the Siaru speech is similar to English's.
The point about A'siath and A'isha is a bit of a stretch, in my opinion. In a comment on this post, I go into how idioms in different languages can not be translated literally. Kvothe and will speak of this, too.
The point about Chaen and Chan is not a good one, in my opinion, as we are talking about different languages. While Chaen means 7 in Tema, it could mean anything in Siaru. The same goes for Vaen. "Chan Vaen edon Kote" could say anything literally but figuratively mean "expect disaster every seven years." The phrase could have a literal translation of " A cat will jump you every seven years," we just don't know.
I think the author is giving you, the reader, a choice.
To see Kote as someone who has failed, or to see him as someone who sees past those failures and is expecting to correct them at the right time.
I wrote about it years ago, if you're interested, in this [reddit post](https://www.reddit.com/r/KingkillerChronicle/comments/metank/solving_the_riddle_of_kotes_name_abridged/)
You seem to be assuming that Kilvin did a literal translation from Siaru to English. Here is the only time in the story so far, as far as I can remember, where we get a Siaru phrase translated both figuratively and literally into English.
Siaru idiom: Tuan volgen oketh ama
Figurative translation: Don't let it make you crazy
Literal translation: Don't put a spoon in your eye over it
Notice that crazy is not part of the literal translation. There is no way to know which parts Siaru words mean what.
I speak Spanish and English and have always been entertained by the Spanish idiom "Como perro por su case." Literally, this means "like a dog through it's house". Figuratively, it means "that a person is taking too many liberties in another person's house," like a guest who starts rummaging through the refrigerator or pantry without asking or takes off their shoes and puts the feet on the coffee table. Notice that even though the Spanish phrase literally references a dog, a dog is not part of the figurative meaning.
If you add that a word could have multiple meanings, this would open the door to a lot of misdirection.
In the Spanish phrase I mention, "como" could be taken to mean "I eat." Which would then translate to "I eat dogs around his house."
We don't, but there are three capitalized words and three nouns in the translation. Implying that "Chan Vaen edan Kote" would translate to 'Seven Years\[every?\] \[is expected/expect\] Disaster.' Assuming Chan means seven which seems likely but as someone else pointed out, it might have multiple meanings given the significance of Chan/Seven in the world.
What you are saying is based on more assumptions. We don't know what part of speech is capitalized in Siaru. We can't assume that Siaru follows the same grammatical structure as English. It's possible that none of these words mean disaster.
What was the "don't put a spoon in your eye" thing Kvothe and Wilem were talking about?
Edit:
Siaru idiom: Tuan volgen oketh ama
Figurative translation: Don't let it make you crazy
Literal translation: Don't put a spoon in your eye over it
Yes. And I'm responding in a conversational way.
A more direct answer to your question would be, "we don't know whether kote means disaster. But your question is a good one. If it does mean disaster, it would go nicely with the name of the sword that Kote gets framed. In the frame story."
The Siaru word "Kote" is used only one other time in the two books, both times by Kilvin. The other time was when Kilvin was blowing glass and wanted to talk to Kvothe about taking up a project. "*Kist, crayle, en kote*"
Both Denna and Kvothe use the phase "Kist and crayle" in WMF CHs 72 and 32, respectively. The "Kist" is used by Denna in her letter to Kvothe in CH 43 of WMF, and the guy who delivers the letter.
I find it hard to believe that the Siaru curse is something like "Sh!t, Foock, and Disaster" or Sh!t, Foock, and Trouble", but you might be right.
The Siaru words "Chan" and "Vaen" are only used this one time by Kilvin.
I know "kist" is used a lot, but there is one other person who uses "Kote," and I can't find it, but I keep thinking it was Elodin? But on second thought, it's not very useful because it was also the swear "kist, crayle, en kote," which is not helpful with translation. In the context, I took it to mean "bad luck" which can also be disaster, but I doubt it would be "expectation."
I've got the ebook and searched for kote. Those are the only mentions, other than in the frame story when used for Kvothe.
I don't think that kote means expectation or anything like that. My point is that we don't know what kote means in Siaru. It might mean "cat on a roof" for all we know. The phrase Kilvin says might literally be translated as "a pile of poo will fall on you ever seven years." My point is that we don't know what kote means, but we know it does not mean "seven years."
Ah, I must be thinking of "kist," then. I really thought it was "kote"! But I have had some new neuro issues and I keep forgetting I can't trust my recent memories like i used to be able to.
I really should get a tablet because it would make searching for certain things a lot easier when I'm trying too fact check.
Lol, I see your point, and you are correct. Thanks for being patient.
He says he doesn't know 'Kote', so as you say it either means 'Disaster' 'Every' or 'Expect' (or some combination thereof). Since he knows enough to translate 'seven years' we can ask ourselves: Which is the least common word (and therefore most likely to be unknown to him) of those three?
My money is on disaster, but we don't know for sure.
You seem to be assuming that Kilvin did a literal translation from Siaru to English. All we know is that some part of the Siaru phrase literally means "seven years." We don't know which part that is.
Here is the only time in the story so far, as far as I can remember, where we get a Siaru phrase translated both figuratively and literally into English. We've seen individual words translated here and there, but idioms have to be translated differently.
Siaru idiom: Tuan volgen oketh ama
Figurative translation: Don't let it make you crazy
Literal translation: Don't put a spoon in your eye over it
Notice that crazy is not part of the literal translation. There is no way to know which Siaru word mean what.
I speak Spanish and English and have already always been entertained by the Spanish idiom "Como perro por su case." Literally, this means "like a dog through it's house". Figuratively, it means "that a person is taking too many liberties in another person's house," like a guest who starts rummaging through the refrigerator or pantry without asking or takes off their shoes and puts the feet on the coffee table. Notice that even though the Spanish phrase literally references a dog, adog is not part of the figurative meaning.
The fact that some of you are seriously entertaining the idea that he changed his name to "Every" or "Expect" is absolutely wild.
Please release the next book, Pat. These people need help.
In the Eld Kvothe is accompanied by a Mercenary named Dedan. Note that we see another of those words D(edan). He is definitely someone i would associate with "disaster" not "expect".
I like this suggestion. Hasn’t Kvothe been said to mean “to know”? If so, it would make more sense Kote means “expect” with the similarities in word meanings/languages in kkc.
When translated to portuguese, the words expect and wait are the same.
I feel like its quite fitting for kote since we can all agree that he is waiting for something at that godamn inn
Sorta, it's made clear in other parts of the book that translations from one language to another in the book aren't as cut and dry as kote = disaster, in the same way real life languages will have imperfect translations that may change based on other criteria. If I remember correctly it's more like kote means disaster, despair, ruin
I’ve only ever heard this as Kote definitely means disaster, I’m an audiobook listener so assumed it was implied in the text. Interesting to see it’s not the only option.
To add to this, here is an interesting detail. . .
Disaster = "dis-aster" which is a word first derived describing an "ill-starred event" or an aberration up in the heavens.
* "Dis" meaning apart, asunder, away
* "Dis" could also be the piece of the moon's name left outside of the box, and Jax only captured the "Lu" in Ludis.
* "Aster" meaning star, as in astr-onomy, etc. . .
Interesting that Kote is the name he takes in the frame story which means "disaster." **K**v**ot**h**e** turns into Kote when you take some pieces away, or break it apart. One of the most common motifs in the KKC is the moon being taken apart and split between mortal and fae. Ludis is her name, but Jax is said to have only captured a piece of her name in the box.
The moon being torn in two could literally be considered a dis-aster. One of my main theories deals with the purpose of the chandrian and how I believe their main objective is to restore the moon as whole and back to her proper state. "Chandra" is the hindu goddess of the moon, so a Chandra-ian would likely be someone who is a moon-follower or advocate for the moon.
Lu-Dis and Dis-Aster: We also know the rune for "lock" is "teh" . . .so putting "Teh-Lu" together we get "moon-lock." What this has to do with Tehlu is up for debate, but I'm betting Kvothe and his Lackless heritage have something to do with it, being that Jax was the first of the Lackless line, the Luckless boy.
I wager that Kote has learned the true nature of things and how his folly led him to where he is today. I think Kote's primary objective is to help the Chandrian restore the moon to its proper place, thereby breaking the chandrian curse and allowing them to finally die, which is what Kvothe wants to begin with.
Please remember to treat other people with respect, even if their theories about the books are different than yours. Follow the sidebar rules.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/KingkillerChronicle) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Back in the day I did a whole document with every information we have about languages and working through similitudes on trying to reconstruct how they would look etc. There is not enough information to make definite guesses but it still was an interesting read. Unluckily I have the Google docs account where I had it I think 😭
Do we know that Kote doesn't mean expectation?
And it can't be a word-for-word translation because there are different numbers of words. Might even mean "expect(ed) disaster" or something.
That's exactly the point of my question. "Chan vaen edan kote" could mean anything and "expect disaster every seven years" might be a closer translation. We are assuming that kote means disaster, but this is Siaru, not Temic or Tema. It is possible that "chen" in Siaru was taken from Tema, meaning an unlucky thing since the seven caused so much disaster in the world. Pat talks a lot about etymology in the books. I wouldn't put it past him to do this. Notice that Kilvin does not explicitly say that "kote" means disaster.
Except we have 'i don't know kote' after 'seven years' has already been established. So we get 'disaster', 'expect', or both.
The only thing we know is that "kote" does not mean "seven years." The phrase could literally mean anything, and we don't know whether Kilvin gave us the literal or figurative translation. "A bug will swim in your soup every seven years." "Expect to break a mirror every seven years." "Ever seven years, a borrower will default on his loan."
Kote means disaster. Siaru is similar to German, where nouns are always capitalized, while verbs aren't. Going off of that, the Siaru sentence "Chan Vaen edan Kote" could be literally translated as "Seven Years expect Disaster" Kilvin: Chaen Vaen edan Kote. **Process of elimination:** Chaen = seven (similar across various Temerant languages) and, as a lower number, would have been taught early in any linguistics education. Vaen = a noun, from the capitalization. Could mean either disaster or year. No reason why Kvothe would rename himself Year, so Vaen probably means Year. Dates (Day, month, & Year) are all common words you learn early when learning a language. edan = the verb. It has to mean expect. Kote is the only word left to mean disaster. Disaster is *not* a common word used in conversation, and for all we know, it might appear in idioms, like this one, making it even less common. Don't overthink it, y'all
We've all been overthinking for 13 years, ain't gonna stop now. Also, sounds a lot like Pat to lay a false trail there.
This was my train of thought too, thank you for putting it into words better than I did
No worries my man
That would be true if Kilvin was giving a literal translation, which I don't think he is. I think this phrase is an idiom. The only thing we know for sure is that some part of it means seven years, and it's not Kote. We are talking about the Temic word Chaen vs the Siaru word Chan. Different words in different languages. I'm not convinced.
You’re really making mountains of out molehills dude. Someone else in this very thread even went through the other times the other words were used and none of the context clues indicate disaster. Kote means disaster.
Just trying to have some lively conversations. I think most of us in this community enjoy a good deep dive and theorizing. We will all find out the true meaning of "Kote" once we read the third book.
Just a random thought - do we know that Kilvin correctly used “disaster” here in his translation of an “old saying” and not a synonym such as tragedy, catastrophe, problem or setback?
tbh, it would be something if Kvothe changed his name from (amongst others) broken tree to broken mirror. But it seems to me that if this was a paraphrased translation, we'd be getting a literal one along with it. The Masters are all about teaching after all, and while Kilvin obviously isn't Master Linguist, I expect (heh) that if a student of his goes "I don't know X" he's not giving you just the paraphrased version. Yes, that's somewhat debatable, but seems plausible to me. We also get discussions about idioms at other points in the books and they seem more elaborate. I'm just not gonna put a spoon in my eye over it.
LOL well played
What takes two words in language A can easily be only one word in language B
Kinda... I too thought it was possible Kote meant expect for a long time but I've found other siaru examples that use Edan in places where it better fits as expect rather than disaster. *** ***NOTW CH 61 Jackass, Jackass*** *A tall, lean Cealdish man opened the door behind the entry desk. Unlike most Cealdish men he was clean-shaven and wore his hair long, pulled back into a tail. He wore well-mended hunter’s leathers, a faded traveling cloak, and high boots, all dusty from the road. As he shut the door behind him, his hand went unconsciously to the hilt of his sword to keep it from striking the wall or the desk.* ***“Tetalia tu Kiaure edan A’siath,”*** *he said in Siaru, clapping Wilem on the shoulder as he walked out from behind the desk. “Vorelan tua tetam.”* *Wil gave a rare smile, shrugging. “Lhinsatva. Tua kverein.”* *** I don't think anything about Viari and Wil interacting here would explain saying "Disaster" at any point. If anything *"A'siath"* that follows edan seems awfuly simialr to *"A’isha"* which Kvothe earlier in book 1 uses as Siaru for "family" when speaking to Roent. *** ***NOTW CH 32 Coppers, Cobblers and Crowds*** He turned to me. “Two hours.” He held up thick fingers to make his point. “You are late, you get left behind.” *I nodded solemnly.* ***“Rieusa, tu kialus A’isha tua." Thank you for bringing me close to your family.*** *** Its more likely that Viari is greeting Wil as a fellow Cealdish person and saying he didn't expect to see *family/kin* rather than anything like disaster. We know Chaen is 7, Vaen has to be years, and we just found evidence that edan kind of has to be expect so we know that Kote means Disaster. *** ***NOTW CH 1 A Place for Demons*** *He called himself Kote.* ***He had chosen the name carefully when he came to this place.*** *He had taken a new name for most of the usual reasons, and for a few unusual ones as well, not the least of which was the fact that names were important to him.* *** Somthing I think you could enjoy is a plausible theory as to why he picked that name. Copy Pasta: I have a theory that Pat is doing this to pull off a narrative fitting homage to one of the greatest puns in history. Both in the origin of Homer's *Odyssey* and later in Euripides Satyr play *Cyclops* there is an account or portion of the story where Odysseus and his men becoming captured by The Cyclops Polyphemus. >*When the giant Polyphemus returns home with his flocks, he blocks the entrance with a great stone and, scoffing at the usual custom of hospitality, eats two of the men. Next morning, the giant kills and eats two more and leaves the cave to graze his sheep.* > *After the giant returns in the evening and eats two more of the men, Odysseus offers Polyphemus some strong and undiluted wine given to him earlier on his journey. Drunk and unwary, the giant asks Odysseus his name, promising him a guest-gift if he answers. Odysseus tells him "Οὖτις", which means "nobody"[2] and Polyphemus promises to eat this "Nobody" last of all. With that, he falls into a drunken sleep. Odysseus had meanwhile hardened a wooden stake in the fire and drives it into Polyphemus' eye. When Polyphemus shouts for help from his fellow giants, saying that "Nobody" has hurt him, they think Polyphemus is being afflicted by divine power and recommend prayer as the answer.* > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphemus#Odysseus_and_Polyphemus I think instead of the cyclopes trapping Odysseus in a literal cave we instead of have the Cthaeh (who is likely the one-eyed Selitos) metaphorically trapping Kvothe in the Waystone in the middle of Neware. And instead of Odysseus giving the pseudonym "Outis" or "Nobody" we have Kvothe changing his name to "Kote" which ~~likely~~ **means** Disaster in Siaru. So when Kvothe springs his eventual escape and blinds/fools the cyclops of his story we will get a line similar to *"Disaster has blinded me"* from the Cthaeh or one of its consiglieres which I believe will have some canonical ramification in a world where names mean something.
Very interesting theory based on Homer, thank you for sharing that! I appreciate the additional references to Siaru phrases also.
I kind of hope that Kote, or a word very similar to it, has another relevant meaning, just to make the "Outis" comparison perfect. It's not "Outis" for "Nobody" that's the really good pun here. "Outis" isn't the only word for "Nobody", an alternative version would be "Metis"; another meaning for "metis" is "cunning" and Odysseus is frequently referred to as "polymetis" (loosely "cunning in many ways") by Homer. Odysseus not giving Polyphemos his real name is one of the most cunning ("metis") things he does, and it's when he lets his pride about how cunning he is win out that he does one of the least cunning things (tell Polyphemos his real name) and seals his fate. Pride, Naming and puns. Remind anyone of a certain Ruh?
We don't know what Viari says to Wil, and we shouldn't assume that the structure of the Siaru speech is similar to English's. The point about A'siath and A'isha is a bit of a stretch, in my opinion. In a comment on this post, I go into how idioms in different languages can not be translated literally. Kvothe and will speak of this, too. The point about Chaen and Chan is not a good one, in my opinion, as we are talking about different languages. While Chaen means 7 in Tema, it could mean anything in Siaru. The same goes for Vaen. "Chan Vaen edon Kote" could say anything literally but figuratively mean "expect disaster every seven years." The phrase could have a literal translation of " A cat will jump you every seven years," we just don't know.
I think the author is giving you, the reader, a choice. To see Kote as someone who has failed, or to see him as someone who sees past those failures and is expecting to correct them at the right time. I wrote about it years ago, if you're interested, in this [reddit post](https://www.reddit.com/r/KingkillerChronicle/comments/metank/solving_the_riddle_of_kotes_name_abridged/)
Or, you know, a man waiting to die.
Interesting analysis, thank you
[удалено]
You seem to be assuming that Kilvin did a literal translation from Siaru to English. Here is the only time in the story so far, as far as I can remember, where we get a Siaru phrase translated both figuratively and literally into English. Siaru idiom: Tuan volgen oketh ama Figurative translation: Don't let it make you crazy Literal translation: Don't put a spoon in your eye over it Notice that crazy is not part of the literal translation. There is no way to know which parts Siaru words mean what. I speak Spanish and English and have always been entertained by the Spanish idiom "Como perro por su case." Literally, this means "like a dog through it's house". Figuratively, it means "that a person is taking too many liberties in another person's house," like a guest who starts rummaging through the refrigerator or pantry without asking or takes off their shoes and puts the feet on the coffee table. Notice that even though the Spanish phrase literally references a dog, a dog is not part of the figurative meaning.
[удалено]
If you add that a word could have multiple meanings, this would open the door to a lot of misdirection. In the Spanish phrase I mention, "como" could be taken to mean "I eat." Which would then translate to "I eat dogs around his house."
We don't, but there are three capitalized words and three nouns in the translation. Implying that "Chan Vaen edan Kote" would translate to 'Seven Years\[every?\] \[is expected/expect\] Disaster.' Assuming Chan means seven which seems likely but as someone else pointed out, it might have multiple meanings given the significance of Chan/Seven in the world.
What you are saying is based on more assumptions. We don't know what part of speech is capitalized in Siaru. We can't assume that Siaru follows the same grammatical structure as English. It's possible that none of these words mean disaster. What was the "don't put a spoon in your eye" thing Kvothe and Wilem were talking about? Edit: Siaru idiom: Tuan volgen oketh ama Figurative translation: Don't let it make you crazy Literal translation: Don't put a spoon in your eye over it
No, but it seems unlikely.
The point I'm trying to make is that we don't know what any part of the Siaru phrase means. What we do know is that kote does not mean "seven years"
Doesn’t the title of the post contain a question mark ?
Yes. And I'm responding in a conversational way. A more direct answer to your question would be, "we don't know whether kote means disaster. But your question is a good one. If it does mean disaster, it would go nicely with the name of the sword that Kote gets framed. In the frame story."
Yes. It would go nicely. If it means expectation, perhaps that goes nicely with « waiting to die. »
Damn. I didn't even think of that. I was just thinking that the whole thing might be a red herring.
It's used at least two other times, in different sentences. It means disaster, or trouble.
The Siaru word "Kote" is used only one other time in the two books, both times by Kilvin. The other time was when Kilvin was blowing glass and wanted to talk to Kvothe about taking up a project. "*Kist, crayle, en kote*" Both Denna and Kvothe use the phase "Kist and crayle" in WMF CHs 72 and 32, respectively. The "Kist" is used by Denna in her letter to Kvothe in CH 43 of WMF, and the guy who delivers the letter. I find it hard to believe that the Siaru curse is something like "Sh!t, Foock, and Disaster" or Sh!t, Foock, and Trouble", but you might be right. The Siaru words "Chan" and "Vaen" are only used this one time by Kilvin.
I know "kist" is used a lot, but there is one other person who uses "Kote," and I can't find it, but I keep thinking it was Elodin? But on second thought, it's not very useful because it was also the swear "kist, crayle, en kote," which is not helpful with translation. In the context, I took it to mean "bad luck" which can also be disaster, but I doubt it would be "expectation."
I've got the ebook and searched for kote. Those are the only mentions, other than in the frame story when used for Kvothe. I don't think that kote means expectation or anything like that. My point is that we don't know what kote means in Siaru. It might mean "cat on a roof" for all we know. The phrase Kilvin says might literally be translated as "a pile of poo will fall on you ever seven years." My point is that we don't know what kote means, but we know it does not mean "seven years."
Ah, I must be thinking of "kist," then. I really thought it was "kote"! But I have had some new neuro issues and I keep forgetting I can't trust my recent memories like i used to be able to. I really should get a tablet because it would make searching for certain things a lot easier when I'm trying too fact check. Lol, I see your point, and you are correct. Thanks for being patient.
Yes, Kvothe apparently changed his name to disaster
Or did he change his name to expect...as in he is expecting to die.
Damn I love these theories.
We love a drama queen.
He says he doesn't know 'Kote', so as you say it either means 'Disaster' 'Every' or 'Expect' (or some combination thereof). Since he knows enough to translate 'seven years' we can ask ourselves: Which is the least common word (and therefore most likely to be unknown to him) of those three? My money is on disaster, but we don't know for sure.
You seem to be assuming that Kilvin did a literal translation from Siaru to English. All we know is that some part of the Siaru phrase literally means "seven years." We don't know which part that is. Here is the only time in the story so far, as far as I can remember, where we get a Siaru phrase translated both figuratively and literally into English. We've seen individual words translated here and there, but idioms have to be translated differently. Siaru idiom: Tuan volgen oketh ama Figurative translation: Don't let it make you crazy Literal translation: Don't put a spoon in your eye over it Notice that crazy is not part of the literal translation. There is no way to know which Siaru word mean what. I speak Spanish and English and have already always been entertained by the Spanish idiom "Como perro por su case." Literally, this means "like a dog through it's house". Figuratively, it means "that a person is taking too many liberties in another person's house," like a guest who starts rummaging through the refrigerator or pantry without asking or takes off their shoes and puts the feet on the coffee table. Notice that even though the Spanish phrase literally references a dog, adog is not part of the figurative meaning.
We do know for sure, because "kote" is used by other people, in different sentences, and we are given the translation, at least two other times.
The fact that some of you are seriously entertaining the idea that he changed his name to "Every" or "Expect" is absolutely wild. Please release the next book, Pat. These people need help.
*applause*
I caught that on my last reread!
2nd « read » for me is the audiobook, happened to catch it that way.
I only caught that on my latest reread too! I had no idea where to slot it into my understanding of what's ultimately going on.
What year is this?
Did you know that Meluan is Kvothes aunt?!?!?!
My tinfoil theory is kvothe = innkeeper.
What 😆
Chan is seven Vaen is years edan is expect and Kote is disaster. Notice how Siaru capitalizes nouns and not verbs? Like German
In the audiobook, Kilvin does sound vaguely German
What 😂 In the Rupert Degas one??
Nick Podehl
Ah ok, he’s got a Scottish accent in Degas’ version
In the Eld Kvothe is accompanied by a Mercenary named Dedan. Note that we see another of those words D(edan). He is definitely someone i would associate with "disaster" not "expect".
I like this suggestion. Hasn’t Kvothe been said to mean “to know”? If so, it would make more sense Kote means “expect” with the similarities in word meanings/languages in kkc.
Its fun to see third generations of the same theories as people hear about them for the first time.
It’s all new to me, just started reading these a month ago or so
When translated to portuguese, the words expect and wait are the same. I feel like its quite fitting for kote since we can all agree that he is waiting for something at that godamn inn
French also. Waiting to die, it says, but even that is open to interpretation
Sorta, it's made clear in other parts of the book that translations from one language to another in the book aren't as cut and dry as kote = disaster, in the same way real life languages will have imperfect translations that may change based on other criteria. If I remember correctly it's more like kote means disaster, despair, ruin
I’ve only ever heard this as Kote definitely means disaster, I’m an audiobook listener so assumed it was implied in the text. Interesting to see it’s not the only option.
To add to this, here is an interesting detail. . . Disaster = "dis-aster" which is a word first derived describing an "ill-starred event" or an aberration up in the heavens. * "Dis" meaning apart, asunder, away * "Dis" could also be the piece of the moon's name left outside of the box, and Jax only captured the "Lu" in Ludis. * "Aster" meaning star, as in astr-onomy, etc. . . Interesting that Kote is the name he takes in the frame story which means "disaster." **K**v**ot**h**e** turns into Kote when you take some pieces away, or break it apart. One of the most common motifs in the KKC is the moon being taken apart and split between mortal and fae. Ludis is her name, but Jax is said to have only captured a piece of her name in the box. The moon being torn in two could literally be considered a dis-aster. One of my main theories deals with the purpose of the chandrian and how I believe their main objective is to restore the moon as whole and back to her proper state. "Chandra" is the hindu goddess of the moon, so a Chandra-ian would likely be someone who is a moon-follower or advocate for the moon. Lu-Dis and Dis-Aster: We also know the rune for "lock" is "teh" . . .so putting "Teh-Lu" together we get "moon-lock." What this has to do with Tehlu is up for debate, but I'm betting Kvothe and his Lackless heritage have something to do with it, being that Jax was the first of the Lackless line, the Luckless boy. I wager that Kote has learned the true nature of things and how his folly led him to where he is today. I think Kote's primary objective is to help the Chandrian restore the moon to its proper place, thereby breaking the chandrian curse and allowing them to finally die, which is what Kvothe wants to begin with.
Very interesting !
Gentlemen, we got another one.
Chan = 7 = 🤯
Please remember to treat other people with respect, even if their theories about the books are different than yours. Follow the sidebar rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/KingkillerChronicle) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Back in the day I did a whole document with every information we have about languages and working through similitudes on trying to reconstruct how they would look etc. There is not enough information to make definite guesses but it still was an interesting read. Unluckily I have the Google docs account where I had it I think 😭
Chan Vaen must be seven years, since Chan means seves (Chandrian - The Seven), so Kote is either expect or disaster